SOLO BUILD: ruclips.net/video/bo-2ewDDkGQ/видео.html (COOP BUILD)THE ONE USE-CASE FOR RESO: ruclips.net/video/HGIhacjr_ro/видео.html CALCULATOR: cowaii.io and ruclips.net/video/0BqHNkViEFI/видео.html Didn't clarify explicitly in the video but I know there are use-cases in non-tank builds for reso, but my challenge to you guys is to find one in a tank build that isn't outdone by crystal. If you guys find any I'll add it in below here on the pinned comment.
I'm completely unoriginal and using your summoner build that you said was unoptimizes as I start an apoc run. By all means feed my unoriginal ass a good Engineer build that can tank and kill Annihilation.
How does handler’s first skill work with damage reduction? It doesn’t show up in the advanced stats so does that mean it’s in a different bucket from total dr?
Challenge accepted, use crystal to tank dam and get to that 1 guy who is always across the damn pit to manually revive them. Also the game is not just bosses and 1 shots so unless you just stand around popping relics losing movement speed hurts any game that is meant to do "Runs" , let me do the math run - 50% = walk. Against hard hitting mobs a fresh (not spamming) crystal use only lets me take 2-3 more hits, but I might take those extra hits walking instead of running and on top of all that if you know how to get your DR cap without having to rely on popping relics and watching cool downs the extra DR is just wasted and we all know how you feel about that...
Here's my 1472.35 ehp build with resonating heart: Medic + summoner Resonating heart with DR, HP, armor fragment rusted navigator Dense silicon ring seal of empress ring of robust hardcore metal band - abused with helfire / gas giant to maintain 5 stacks of bulwark Fortify, Vigor, Blood Bond, Rugged, Barksin, Bloodstream, Glutton 25 hp tonic song of eafir this gets you 387.8 armor, 230 hp and 79.58% DR. It's very similar in nature to your medic + summoner build, but main difference being exploiting self damage with hardcore metal band. Obviously crystal heart means I could drop out some of the negation buffs, whereas resonating heart effectively lasts twice as long.
So love these vids they are so much help. I have a huge issue with the build vids that are out and people calling things tank builds when there are no tanks in the game because i have not found a taunt skill in the game. I am also in the process of making builds vids and tip guilds and I have to say I'm just glad I'm not the only one that is irritated lmfao
as far as im aware the reason why resonating is so insane in terms of healing is the interaction with summons and teammates. Either the medic team perk that heals allies for 30% of relic or the burden of the divine or both count as overheal for resonating 20 sec healing pool. Basically each allied summon/teammate act as a separate healing multiplier. You can make an argument for crystal being better in cases where you need it to reach 80% dr, but calling resonating trash is massive copium. Its still strong af, if not better if you value your move speed and would rather chug a relic every 20-25 sec instead of 10.
Agreed. Sure this guy did the math and on paper Crystal Heart is better but in practice this just isn't always true. You need to factor in QoL and coop play as you said. I have tried his Crystal Heart build in coop with some friends and we still had a hard time , swapped to the resonating heart and all of a sudden the extra time between relic uses and constant healing paired with my summons and the ring that shares healing made a HUGE difference. Game felt a lot easier and more chill. Not to mention you can use a DoT gun and just throw a dot on your summons and have constant relic refills 24/7.
exactly. you only need one relic and one ring, heals fine. solo and tanking, i can see the DR with crystal being tops. in a group, in highly mobile fights and you can help DPS, RH all day
I used resonating heart on a couple regen builds I was messing around with and, as in the video, found myself still getting squished. The crystal heart seems to make my character more survivable although I'm not a fan of the movement restriction. Thank you for crunching the numbers and sharing your results; helps me make sense of the results I was getting when experimenting.
This is a wonderful breakdown. The only thing I think you didn't fully address is 'action economy'. I like the Resonating heart b/c it is 25 seconds of healing each pop instead of 10 seconds of healing per pop. (If using the exploit it's 20 seconds of healing). You do mention the increased frequency being beneficial, but those triggers are usually met with Resonating Heart w/o any loss of buff time, so in those instances, the increased "dps uptime" of not having to pop another heart is beneficial. All in all, your math is flawless and on paper your argument is absolute. I just think when it comes to sense of feel and action economy, Resonating Heart does have the advantage.
Yeah...not even a relic spam tanker here, but having to chug a relic every 10 seconds leaves you much less time to actually do stuff compared to every 20s / 25s. I'd also argue the levels of healing and DR tanking of both builds are excessive for the majority of situations in Apoc, though that's more a question of playstyle / build goal.
He lost so much credibility when in the first section of the video he talks about Clickbait titles and how negative they are. And then goes on to call resonating a heart “fucking garbage” Even with his own math, it wouldn’t be garbage it would just not be as good. The hypocrisy is alive and well.
@@Shannendetro I mean...it's not like he clickbaited. The video is called "Stop using Resonating Heart..." and he explains his thought process on that. He actually delivered on exactly what the video title is. It's his stance on using the heart. Too easy. He definitely shouldn't have attacked the other builds though...especially since most of the ones I've seen do what they claim to do: mindlessly help you clear Apoc. I wouldn't call that hypocrisy though, just poor judgement.
I prefer resonating in coop. I like to be a primary support and let the dps guys do what they do. My build isn't optimized though. It's balanced to just help get the job done effectively and heal the living shit out of my teammates. That said, this is about being the talkies tank possible, and he's 100% right there. DR is critical
The only reason I can think of using resonating over crystal in this context is that you are more free in terms of the timing for the buff, crystal only lasts 10s so you have to be a little more aware of that, meanwhile resonating is basically active for 25 seconds so you have a bigger window to perform more actions and you only need to be aware of 1 hit attacks. Also since you only have 10s with crystals, means that you will consume hearts faster which is not ideal in some boss fights like Nightweaver on her second phase. For Anihilation however your crystalheart build is WAY better. So I think while the crystalheart is objectively better, bot builds are still valid and have their uses. Nice vid.
Nightweaver is the best example of how both hearts fall down considering you're taking spike damage, but resonating lasts far longer and can be timed more efficiently. On her fight I typically am just running out of hearts when she dies with not even close to perfect play. Crystal you risk missing getting the heal off before something goes wrong and you're just dead.
Res Heart doesn't give any DR so the healing effect time becomes irrelevant once you're dealing with extremely strong boss attacks. Lets say the balls on Annihilation; Doesn't matter how long your Res Heart lasts, they will take you out. With Crystal Heart, it's actually possible to survive the hit from 4/5 of them. Double that with a Shield active at the same time. So yes you have to be cognizant of when to pop Crystal but in order to exploit Res Heart you have to do the same thing. And the reward from Crystal is far more beneficial that that received from Res Heart at the toughest levels.
@@terrellestephens8922if you're taking 4/5 ball shots in the Final boss fight, heals aren't your problem, DPS is.. take them out faster and they're not an issue.. or use the cube gun shield, it stops a full round if them, even in Apoc
@@terrellestephens8922 Crystal Heart doesnt give you DR over 80% and you can have 80% DR and run Resonating Heart. Sure, using Crystal Heart frees up a potential ring slot or two for flexibility, but you have to micromanage it more.
Here's an obvious use-case for Resonating Heart over Crystal Heart: Your campaign didn't give you Crystal Heart. Resonating Heart is guaranteed in Root Earth, and it does work under many circumstances, even if it's not optimal, but in say a HC run, or someone's first campaign, they may not have every item by the time they reach a certain fight, so build guides suggesting a sub-optimal loadout might still be useful for a player that has those items, and not those of a better build. I experimented with multiple loadouts, and found success and challenges with many. Even if maxing EHP is the best way to tank, it still leaves you vulnerable to the many guaranteed one-shot mechanics, and was not viable against Cancer pre-patch due to his roots ignoring DR, so it's understandable that people would have tried and succeeded with other options.
Crystal heart seems one of the most valuable relics since the 25% DR helps to reach DR cap for some setups. Like If im not able to melee my steadfast is not doing anything at that moment which allows crystal heart to cover up that shortfall. Consistency is the name of the game with crystal heart.
I have a build with resonating where in apocalypse fighting final boss with spiteful and thick skin mu team didn't have to heal themselves and were basically glass cannons
Played through on survivor fully content in knowing i was never going to be able to take on apoc. Saw a crystal heart build as well as a resonating heart build and i'll say this. Resonating heart build gave me the confidence to go straight into apoc and solo the entire campaign up until venom and final boss. Those two i needed help with and I'm fine with that. That being said, there were i think 3 things in the game that could one shot me. Venom's lance throw and digital ground goo and faelins big ground slam in his final phase of health. That's it... I was so proud to be able to solo apoc and really felt like i improved even if it was a bit exploitative with health regen i still got very good with timing and dodging. Now for the crystal heart build i tried.... that shit felt like ass to play and almost turned me off to apoc altogether. The 50% slow speed sucks so you have to be a tank to survive which is fine... but you're not immune to stagger so it felt like i was constantly stagger locked and with the slow speed i just had to deal with it until they stopped attacking or the buff wore off. Being immortal is useless if you can't fight back and letting your turret do all the work is no fun plus takes all day for one boss fight. Now, I'm fully content to admit that there may have been a flaw of some sort or something i did wrong/could have done better that would yield a better result but based on what i tried running.... one of the two builds got me through apoc and the other did not. It just meant that i had to be vigilant of the one move that actually could kill me and with BSR i could move about and dodge freely.
I stopped using resonating/crystal heart when I got tranquil heart. I like the passive heals more. While Crystal Heart is more flat heals than say Resonating heart based on math alone. The reason I used resonating was specifically the 20second DOT heal. I don't care if it's slightly weaker overall heal by a couple %%%. The point is that I can throw it on and not think about my HP for 20 seconds while it simultaneously heals my Summons, Turret, and Teammates as a DOT heal. (Using Burden of the Divine) Pre-emptively popping resonating heart for enemy attacks that would take large chunks of HP for the group is a good way to keep the team alive while also still dealing DPS in between. If I had to Crystal Heart everytime one of my friends needed HP I wouldn't be shooting at all. Each heart has its pros and cons. To say "stop using X because another provides slightly more healing" is a bit short sighted in a game with a variety of builds. If you really want to "Tank" apocalypse correctly. Get yourself: Generating Band ring. Ring of Crisis. Constricting Ring. Reprocessed Heart. Put 1 trait point into gray health Regen. Put Medic lvl 10 as secondary class. (Or put 10 points into the +50% Regen trait. And not use medic.) Equip constricting ring to put you at 50% HP. Take it off. And replace with any ring you desire. It is no longer needed. This action drops your HP to 50%. Then use your reprocessed heart This action eats your HP at 5 per second. When your HP hits 25% the magic happens. You get a shield for 25% of your total HP from ring of crisis. BUT your HP is still ticking down under the shield slightly. While the grey health Regen is keeping it up. The effect is likely a bug, but appears that the two heals counter each other. It looks like you "ride the line" at 25% life going briefly under it for a second and then back above it due to Regen. Which causes the 25% shield to proc insanely fast while the relic is active. And I mean FAST. You get 5 health bars worth of shields. Not even kidding. If your relic is about to fall off. Use another or you lose your shields lol. The entire final boss fight for Apoc took me 8-9 relic uses. But I was able to literally tank everything except the true 1 shot mechanics the boss throws at you. You still want to dodge attacks because you can be staggered. Took me 7 hours to beat Apoc
Thanks for doing this vid: I had seen both versions of the build and was testing, but it's nice to just use your math. Helped me beat an Aberration that had been 1 shotting me.
Also with all of those "unkillable" guides, they not only conveniently forget to mention that you aren't stacking the healing if it's actually healing you, most of them seem to think that the heel per second is doubled for 20 seconds, not total healing doubled and then spread out. It's fucking infuriating. Thank you for being one of the only remnant content creators who can either read or do math.
I feel you bro but for me resonating heart is what carried me through the apocalypse run , like even final boss was easy it took a while but I just sat back and kept popping relics while summons did damage and I was shooting a little bit myself I appreciate the video I’ll try another run on apocalypse with this and see what’s guud
I’d like to think you’re the Terminus station conductor if he were real and the ending proves my point. Love your detailed breakdowns on DR and helped me made a viable support build on apoc!
So I'm not sure I'm understanding everything that you are listing here but as a "support healer" wouldn't having the longer heal over time be more effective with the res heart? I understand for survivability in the max difficulty not getting one shot is important however would this healing and survivability transfer to my teammates?
This is my question also, since I like playing the Support Healer in multiplayer. I believe Resonating Heart would be better here, however if the damage reduction on Crystal Heart were to transfer to teammates, then yeah I could see crystal winning out. Since that is not the case with the Crystal Heart, I guess it comes down to easier uptime on heals vs. shorter uptime but added damage reduction on you, in which case I'd swap to crystal for fights I have a hard time with and keep resonating for everything else.
I did notice that some channels talk about resonating like it "doubles" the healing, but from the very first time I got it and read the description I ccould tell that that's not what it says it does nor is it the effect it gives. Great video, looking forward to that build since I want to optimize my DR and I haven't been able to reach those 80% yet.
No one even paid attention to what you were saying.. or understood it.. which i guess is kind of hard to come by. Thank you for the build and knowledge!!
I absolutely love your theorycrafting. I myself am by no means able to do this but I did feel like a regen build was janky, something felt... Off. Gonna try your suggested build soon, maybe it'll all *click* together. Thank you for your effort and the educational video!
Yeah, except builds that stack high HP 300+ with 65%+ DR are unkillable with exception of Venom's one-shots. Two reasons to take Res Heart over Crystal are: the movement modifier makes sprint evading attacks impossible (GL on Venom) and the refresh timer of needing to overlap every 10s vs every 15s. Resonating is far more forgiving in that window and doesn't even need to be perfect chained to double-dip so you're always covered. Crystal heart allows you to be vulnerable in situations where you have to decide whether ressing a person will get you killed or not. Looking at spreadsheets is a hot garbage approach with no field data other than "herp, derp I don't die except to the same one-shots everyone faces". I've done extensive testing and in practice, crystal heart is terrible.
@@VashCowaii One shot attacks (or attacks that are close to it) should be dodged anyway as they aren't that common in boss rotations in comparison to other attacks. On the other hand, majority of attacks can be tanked with hp regen/shields and some movement. Crystal heart speed debuff means only valid movement you can do is spam dodge rolls. And that works only on builds with infinite stamina. That ties to using ring that gives you said infinite stamina but also you lose 25% DR for which now you have to compensate with your crystal heart DR. Relic doesn't exist in vacuum. Btw, another unlimited dodge build would be with ring of omens, which actually benefits with regen over longer time window. TLDR: To use Crystal heart, you need to compensate for the 50% move speed debuff. Best ways to compensate for it also reduce effectiveness of said relic. Shielded heart is better at what Crystal heart is supposed to achieve.
Crystal use in Vernon will get you killed. those big red puddles get on you and you can't move out of it? see you at the Stone. With RH, I roll thru them intentionally to recharge my relic count.. 😂
Yeh idk.. after using both extensively resonating still does more group healing when in coop.. idk if I’m doing something wrong or what but having resonating up all the time does more to keep my party alive than crystal heart does
Awesome Video, love the math and breakdown. Very common sense coming from games like Path of Exile where I use spreadsheets all the time to calculate advanced theory.
What I like about resonating heart is that for the next 15-20 secs I dont have to pop a relic. This gives me more time to reload, deal damage, pop ammo box, ect. My build with it was a Medic/summoner and I was able to beat annihilation on the 2nd try in Apoch diff. I agree with everything you said tho, but personally still prefer Resonating over crystal. With my set up the only thing that could kill me is the ball attack, and thats if I dont destroy any of them. I also dont think I used the exploit much, since I would pop it a little early to make sure I had it up 100% of the time.
So the key is crystal heart gives you 25 DR, making it easier to reach the 80 cap. And this means you may have more free slots to stack either DPS or healing effectiveness. Then this shall be a DR + healing build, instead of the old pure DR invincible build pre-patch. Interesting and inspiring. Good video.
I don't get it. Resonating Heart has a slow burn for more free time and a larger window for Regenerator to proc. Crystal Heart has a fast burn with additional DR (Should you need it) at the cost of your movement speed. They both out regen most hits in the game, and they both die to the same boss attacks they can't. Different method same result, maybe I'm missing something but they both feel great to me for tank/healing builds with slightly differing purposes.
agreed. Crystal for stationary tanks. RH for mobile heals. I've cleared full apoc runs no less than 3 times and walk thru the Anni fights with ease. Only bugger to it is the Empathy modifier on bosses. you literally have to out DPS your own heals
This is super useful info, especially about the exploit. I always felt like the healing was inconsistent. I'm partial to resonating because I've beaten every apocalypse boss with it and it's nice to just kinda forget about having to heal for 20 seconds, plus i cant stand the movement speed reduction of crystal, but I'm definitely picking up crystal when they fix the exploit.
I must admit, your breakdown with the percentages was a bit confusing but I can’t argue with my result. I just finished Nightmare and I was getting my ass handed to me over and over with the resonating heart so I switched to the crystal heart and just like you said, my healing was the difference. Great video and thanks for the tip.
I have found when playing being able to use a resonating heart to heal much better than the crystal heart due to one big thing and that is if you need to heal cause the damage taken can not be covered by the crystal heart you cannot use another charge to heal and must wait the full 10 seconds before another charge can be used this is not the case for the resonating heart so although you might miss on DR i find just dodging the ohkos much easier than trying to hope that the 100% health heal will last the full ten seconds and i have enough time to use another right after.
Sound logic, but what if we don't want to use Crystal Heart every 10 sec? Can you please make a tank build that uses a different relic as an alternative?
I'm really glad I found this video. It explained why I was terrible with roasting heart (not using it regularly) and also why I was still getting murdered even when I did use it in an exploitative way. Going to switch relics and continue my apoc run. :)
For the Medic/Summoner combo specifically. The Resonating Heart is still the best. You aren't only specc'd into healing since your minions are also absorbing damage dealt to you. RH is also the only heart with over healing, which means that you do not need to wait for your minions to be damaged in order to heal them a d regenerate infinite relic charges.
I 100% agree and have tested that RH is better than the CH if you are playing in a group. To call Resonating Heart complete garbage is just a person lashing out because he has no friends....
@@ghost_m3pi think you are taking it too far out of context, he is looking at it in terms of survuvability and overall health regained and sustained, the data shown proves that. Sure, its better to use in certain scenarios, but i dont think saying he is "lashing out because he has no friends" is a reasonable argument. Its a far better option when solo, just leave it at that and dont be toxic over something that isnt affecting you personally
This makes so much sense. I couldn't understand why in some instances my health recovery seemed so high with this item but lower in other instances. I just assumed it was bugged. It was likely because I was double dipping in some cases w/o realizing it. I always thought the resonating heart seemed like an item directly meant for the medic and group play. It seems designed more so for maintaining your hearts while supporting your team. The crystal heart is great but I personally dislike the 50% slow. My preference is the void heart despite it taking slightly longer to provide you the heal.
Thats true, my tank build using this hearth is alnost unkillable, but sometimes I do get oneshot from full health Also: I really like your videos, well explained with nice helpful screenshots that give a quick and conplete overview, great explanation to the numbers and nice Thumbnails^^
I never knew res heart has an exploit like that. Honestly thats cool you went in and did the math. Ill try out crystal more and definitely leaving a sub
I've noticed that the double dip doesnt occur if you get hit within the final second of the initial 5 seconds, which is maybe why it can feel inconsitent. Plus, if you do get hit in those 5 seconds, you lose out on potential over heal. Although, slap a Game Masters Pride (Splits damage evenly - this is assuming you have a friend) and a Burden of the Divine (shares 50% of healing to allies) and you have two rings and an amulet to make up for in damage. The real tank is having 70% or so DR, and then having that final 30% halved again. One shots now look like a minor inconvenience. Pair that with two sets of summons (from you and your friend) and a soul link, and so long as you don't get hit in the 5 seconds of resonating heart, you get the double dip, soul link heal (assuming you equip that), and siphoner heal, from both of you. You have all the heling, with all the DR. Make a relic chugging build, have one player chug relics, while the other specs into a class other than medic. Sure, its a two or three player only thing, and yes, if you both get hit by a one shot, you'll both get turned into dust, but we've completed apocalypse with it, and honestly, we shouldn't have done it. Took the fun out of the game completely. My advice, forget about tank builds, and start feeling good about the fact that you can dodge (or not) boss attacks like a pro. Anyway, good video, I do agree with you. Me and my friend probably should have used the Crystal Heart, but it was the double dip that sent things over the edge. In a weird way, I hope it gets patched.
and heres my take on the valid point even if im wrong, Summoner the healing over time applies to your sommons even if you your self are over healing, yes this is easly recreated with other players but you can do it solo and that does make a hug diffrence. but this build does get shot down if you cant take a hit in the first place, not to mention it isnt a easy win build ether, youll have to focus on staying alive if your belowe 70%hp over keeping your minoin aive (no i did not mis type the root rever is the minoin i recomen using for this build considering that it by defalt Will take a hit from ANNI provide you leveld up the summon hp trate)
You can absolutely tank annihilation with resonating heart. only thing that will kill you is if all the death balls hit you. This is on 3p coop apoc. Also very easy to regen resonating hearts as a medic due to 20s heal duration.
This, beat Apoc not too long ago spamming Resonating hearts. Only thing that "one shot' me my entire run was Venom's third hit in his three hit chain, and it I got hit by 3+ orbs in Annihilation's fight.
@Shishomuru same. Venom's third hit and his sword throw were getting me, but I just needed to keep more distance to avoid that. The death balls were not killing me nearly as much since I had higher HP and very rapid heals. I know they are supposed to be shot but wasn't always an option, especially in phase 2 when he summons like 20 of them and keeps phase shifting and you can't focus on them at all.
Resonating heart is fine if you are already otherwise hitting 80% DR and have 180+ HP. What makes crystal heart better than resonating heart is it heals just as effectively (actually more effectively without the stacking) and it gives you 25% DR so you’ve freed up at least a ring slot and 10 trait points to put into health, damage or other QOL. If you’re playing coop and everyone has high enough EHP so no one is going down easily, and you don’t need to output much damage yourself, resonating heart is great. Press it every 20 seconds and you will be healing infinitely in no time. Solo, the value the 25% DR crystal heart gives is insane value on top of the high healing.
I have completed apocalypse never needed the resonating heart. Great video love the math you did also. I used tranquil heart with relic effectiveness buffs and got as much DR I can get. Ran medic and alchemist. Yes my DPS was not the best but it was enough.
Dude I did the same! I kinda merged your build with their max hp build to get the best out of ehp. And it's far more solid than anything I've seen or tried before. Thanks for yet another informative vid.
The only reson I see to use resonating heart over crystal heart is in lower difficulties like vetran (where a large portion of the games player base resides) where EHP dosent matter anywhere near as much, the 20-25 seconds of effective low grade healing without movment restrictions can be more usefull here for newer players, expecialy those running builds other than tanks, but in all other cases the crystal heart beats it.
In anything under apocalypse you don't even use relics... my farming build has lifestyle and full melee damage. I just run the fuck thru one shooting regulars and staggerlockign elites. You never need to even heal lol
What if my build with Nimue's ribbon, resonating heart, and a bunch of health boosting rings was purely to ensure my teammates and summons were alive and I didn't care about damage?
@@whatever_2808 I did an apoc run with 2 friends, they pretty much went pure DPS, probably only 50-60DR. I kept them alive and they melted every boss. Solo for sure I'm either not doing enough damage or I'm just sitting there heading for hours chipping away at health, but I would not say the Resonating Heart is not viable in tank builds
@@garrettyimI would say for tanking, Crystal is better for the DR boost. But, for us healers, like he proved, RH and it's mechanics, not an exploit BTW, is still king
As long as your friends can take a ohko and still get up like randy marsh you're golden. Its exactly why I started using it while playing with one of my friends that has a habit of Leroy Jenkins-ing mobs. He can usually survive the hits but can't survive the dps. So I started stacking regen just to out heal the dps he was taking. That's the only thing RH has going for it. Being able to out heal the dps for your teammates. There might be other builds better at it but I haven't found any.
the only thing I will say is, I never got oneshot by anything in apoc using resonating, likely because my build had overcap DR, and resonating was providing ~27% hp per sec, and this is me using it AFTER the 20sec heal had expired, so not even taking advantage of its selfstacking healing since this video is the first I ever heard of this interaction Edit - wording accuracy
Hell of a video! I feel like I could be responsible for the whole resonating heart trend haha. Granted, I never made the claims that some Tubers have since my video. It was the first Relic that I found that was viable for a healer build (and still is even outside of a potential exploint) but I do like what I see with crystal, especially if you are solo. I would say that in my experience one upside resonating would have over crystal is the 10 extra seconds of passive healing offered to your teammates that would keep you from having to spam them as often but, the build does leave you open to getting one-shot if you struggle with dodging. I was never going to go as deep to spread sheet this but Im definitely going to try it out. If I switch ill make sure to link this vid on my updated build guide! You explain the raw numbers better than I ever could. 🤙 (Edit Nice name btw )
So using resonating and a build splitting damage with summoner and rugged with the highest helth a can achieve and the highest armor really only found 2 attacks that could oneshot that being venoms spear throw if he has any sort of damage modifier and being hit by all of anailations balls in the cyber demission and im curious if you can tank that with the crystal heart
That sounds alright as long as you remember to use it when you get close to 50% Since it's 100% of CURRENT health, that means the less health you have when you use it, the less health you get.
The resonating heart was neat before I got the crystal heart. I didn't know you could stack the heals in the first place, but crystal heart just seemed more consistent for the health regen builds
Incredible. It’s videos like these that make me feel not so along and insane lol. I’m usually like “how does everyone (purportedly) end up achieving these wildly fantastical results in their gameplay, yet when I copy it, I don’t?!” It’s because you AREN’T unkillable using their builds. Taking advantage of a patchable exploit is more trouble in the long term because since most people would be unaware of how the exploit works, they might be fooled into coming to understand dynamics that aren’t pervasive throughout the game - only present within niche circumstances, and even then, it requires a lot of things to go RIGHT (so, half luck/half skill) in order to achieve results that aren’t bewildering and frustrating lol. Thank you so much for these. No other creator on YT, or otherwise, has made this information so digestible and easy to utilize as you have, and I hope we get to see more actual builds in the future. P.S. personally, I’d love to see what you come up with in regards to build using the ring of omens and/or misty step (if you think it’s even worth it). Also maybe something that could work well without medic that isn’t HUGS? I feel a bit boxed in due to pretty much NEEDING to run medic as my primary if I want to not get curb-stomped in apocalypse lol. Also maybe a brief rundown of your favorite and least favorite amulets/rings/primaries/traits/handguns/melee/archetype combos. In that order of importance (to me, at least). Cheers and thanks again!!!🎉🎉🎉
question Passive regen build idea Medic/Summoner Doe sigil,( for the healing effectiveness, and sweet sweet misty dodge) Ring of omens, (for that sweet misty dodge) Burden of the divine (To give health to both co-op players and summons) Reserve boosting Gem(more pasive regen) Ring of the forest spirit (more healing effectiveness) Leto mark 2 Tranquil heart Not sure on the traits save Triage, & Regrowth, maybe add some bloodstream so your countering the dodge health zap, but would this work and what else would need to be added to make it work....
Well, I didn't know it was an exploit with the resonating heart, but my role was to maintain a steady supply of heal not to tank. Thank you for your explanation I'll try the other one and see if it can improve.
I agree with most but not all. I myself have made a healing build guide with resonating heart as the relic used. When you play coop, no one is running 0% DR. If that is the case, yes you wont be able to heal them. However, the overheal is not proc'ing the same way over the 20s as it is the first proc over 5s. And if you use the relic midway like 10-15s during the overheal, the overheal gets reset also. I explain all this in my channel. Take a look at my healer build video and the boss fights and take a very close look at the hp of my allies. Also, using the crystal heart as a healer does not give the DR to your allies. It only applies to yourself. And, i aint using the buzzwords either. Buzzwords just overhype everything
I am confused as to how someone who didn't develop the game or the heart can classify this as an exploit when you don't have all the information to determine how it was intended to work when stacked.....
Fantastic video, managed to break down all the math and everything in an easy to understand way. One thing i'll point out though is that you didnt take into account coop play, and using resonating heart for a full regen burden of the divine support build. I played through with two other players using melee/close range tank DR builds, and it was loads of fun chilling in the back while they couldnt die. Secondly, i belive a dev has already commented on how stuff like the crazy regen you can stack isnt considered an exploit but rather something they wanted the medic class and builds to be able to do (since like you have pointed out, its not actually crazy op) yet fulfills a type of playstyle fantasy. They said they might nerf numbers ofc but it was an intentional mechanic. Regardless, much love! Your videos are great! ❤
Okay, so here's my build for resonating heart. It's has more tank than the Crystal Heart build, but you have to heavy roll: The healing allows you to sub Nimue's for Twisted Idol. This with Fortify/Relic Frag/Ring of Robust gives you 458 Armor (69.6% DR) Stack 20/30.4 = 0.629 Need 35% to hit cap (Trait, Relic Frag, Melee Mutator) Seal of Empress + Tonic + Robust Ring = 212.8 HP Rerouting Cable = up to 50% MORE HP = 319.2 Divide by 0.2 (DR) = 1596 Divide by 0.85 (Eafir) = 1877.6 Divide by 0.9 = 2086 Total Effective HP Crystal Heart is not quite as tough (but can be if you're okay with flopping), but you get Haste and Lightest Dodge roll or Misty step instead of haste with Red Doe. All in all I like Crystal Heart build more, but only if you have Gluttony trait, because having to chug that potion so frequently sucks with the standard animation.
Your only part right about healing not being true tanking. Yes, if you don't have MORE than healing in your back pocket, your capacity to tank a hit is diminished HOWEVER, being a tanky isn't an all or nothing ordeal. Tankiness is a sliding scale of effectiveness, determined by a variety of things and ONE of the things that determines your tankiness is your ability to receive multiple hits in a row. By this single concept a build with base healing built in vs a built without is less tanky assuming your DR values are consistent. At 100 health, at 80% damage reduction in order to be one shot by an attack that attack must deal over 495 damage. If you cant heal after this, the very next hit, no matter how small, will kill you. HOWEVER, the more that build can passively heal after that hit drastically improves its survivability from a subsequent hit. There's a reason why healers in mmo's tend to actually be as tanky or even tankier than even tanks are. As well, are you SURE that the resonating heart effect isn't intended? "On use, regenerates 50% of Max Health over 5s. When heal ends, any overhealed Health is Doubled and awarded over the next 20s." The language, at least, makes it sound like it refers to healing outside of the relic. "Any overhealed health" sounds like it should be double dipping into other heals.
Theoretically there is room to optimize further if we can determine some ideal EHP ranges, right? Would need to figure out the damage of any single big hits, confirm if there is anything that is literally untankable. Then we could target a min EHP to not be one shot or some other ideal range and focus our remaining fragments/jewelry on healing/damage.
I am the first one to admit I know very little about DR. I know a lot about how DPS works and I get into fights with people over that so much that I kinda have given up. So I assume it's a similar scenario here. If people want to believe something you cannot change their mind on that. Impossible. No matter how wrong they are.
There's nothing much to know about DR. There's DR from armor and just normal DR. Both are multiplicative with one another and the result cannot go over 80%. That's basically it. Pretty simple concept.
I believe the design of the game is to consider the circumstance when selecting relics, gear and guns to equip. Crystal Heart is very strong healing, but reduced speed by 50%, in situations where you need to move out of a danger area quickly or you want to move, you just have to take damage until 10s ends, you may still die if hit by boss when health is not near full when heal ends. Passive healing is still the best option, since using a relic is very slow. When you are knock down, you health still regenerating, when you dodging, it is regenerating, after all, you can only use a relic if you can survive.
Resonating Heart is amazing in team play (or if you have 2+ pets) since if you have the BotD or are a Medic they all count towards the overheal. The medic one in particular results in some swanky bs because you usually get the relic charge back every single time you use it just from the healing effect. It’s also just easier to get the damn thing and it’s probably the second or third best relic you can use for tanking.
Using Resonating Heart prior to revive will always work better than Crystal heart and in most cases guarantee the revive. If you say you get around this by traiting into Revivalist, Resonating Heart can still benefit from Revivalist, but now it can be spent towards other traits pending playstyle.
I definitely see the benefit resonating heart would have in that scenario, but why would you want your choice of relic to pend on how it performs specifically during revive scenarios? If someone is dying that much I would think you'd have an argument for why to run Redemption as your medic skill or keep the Handler's good boy around rather than changing between these 2 relics.
@@requiemagent3014 With how easy it is to jump into someone else's game, I would question your idea of "mostly." There are whole builds dedicated to co-op play. Burden of the Divine comes to mind as a clear indication of a tank/healer build focusing on keeping teammates alive over damage output.
@@garrettyim I repeat this a lot but just because you "feel" this is a coop game doesn't make it true. Most people prefer to play this game solo. Seeing you....yeah I know why I don't play with other people. Ever.
@@requiemagent3014 I'm not knocking your solo play. You don't get to tell me how others should play this game either. There are varying builds for a reason. It's not how I "feel," it's a legitimate aspect of the game and its mechanics.
Great fucking work man. Again my only argument for resonating after seeing your vids has been the QoL factor of not having to pop relic as often, and just seeing big heal numbers while running summoner with burden of the divine. But yeah man you're 100% right that Crystal Heart is king thanks for doing the math and making this vid.
The reason I hatED Crystal Heart and choose resonating heart was simple, uptime. Until I'd farmed the Glutton Trait, downing that relic every 10 seconds made me wanted to deep throat a 12 guage. With the Glutton trait, the quality of life is just so much better. It was still difficult to hit the same 80% DR, but I was still able to clock in roughly 2200 EHP.
They way you explained "effective health" around 7:10 is why I wish games would explore armor as a mechanic more. Some games make health and armor almost mean the same thing aside from "color of the bullets" and health numbers.
Hello thx for explaining how to tank better. I have a question. If the resonating Heart have 2 separate phase of heal, does it mean your healing effectiveness apply 2 time? One for phase 5s and another time for the 20s phase? Or I am wrong?
I'm wondering why you don't use Tightly Wound Coil with that Widowmaker. 15% of your EHP refreshed every shot is pretty nice for a single ring... plus you could run Generating Band for 3%EHP/sec. I just really don't like needing to pop a relic every 10 seconds.
Saying Resonation Heart is "piping hot garbage" is as much, if not more, of a lie and click bait than saying "resonating heart is unkillable". He literally tried to say the double uptime (20s vs 10s) was somehow a bad thing cause you wanted to refresh a 30s buff every 10s? ( 10:28 ) Basic math fail. Popping a relic every 10 secs Sucks 100% more than popping one every 20 secs. Plus no mention of 50% reduced move speed and doesn't talk about how the over heal even effects summons and the 1 billion HP dog. Pretty sure this is a fail.
Interestingly enough i used crystal heart for half my playthrough on apocalypse and so happened to switch to the resonating heart relic cause i was struggling alot with a boss, the overheal is absolutely nuts and it basically looked like my character was immortal until you get one shot from a boss anyways 😅 it carried me through Apocalypse difficulty for sure but its definitly not the best build since yu rely on the relic a bit too much and spamming it can get a bit tiring... Btw my build is a generic medic Summoner with resonating relic cause im kinda trash dodging shit 😅.. running merciless rifle with twisted rounds and nebula for the corrosive DMG stack.. guilty as charged but im quite happy with it..
That's the one to use! Stacking all rings and neck for HP gain just overclock the healing into godliness. I've yet to find a better face-tank build amongst all the claims.
@@JodouTR me either!! Resonant relic might be trash according to a youtuber, but when combined with the right builds, it can overheal and tank 90% of things on apocalypse.. I haven't seen anything about it being an exploit other then here and the remnant devs haven't brought it up as an issue so idk might get patched.. I like running abrasive whetstone, zanias malice, rings of omen, ring of the robust & soul guard gets me free bulwark for every summon so I can get to a decent 61% DMG reduction on top that.. 😎
I legit was trying to crunch numbers to help my Resonating Heart build keep me alive in Apoc Annihilation fights. Only conclusion was to swap to Crystal for the 25% DR to open up more options. I'm happy the conclusion I got to was mathematically backed up lol. Hopefully I can keep my crystals up and active better than I did with Resonating.
If your also having a bit of trouble on apocaplyse or want to be even more tankier farm for the relic shards. The +15% health and armor you get from mythic shards really helped me survive.
Its not better, no one has 1000 hp. Once your overhead with resonating heart gets to a certain point, you're just overkilling. You only need to heal 200hp so that when you cut it in half you heal 100hp. If your teammate is dying with 100hp heals then they're dying regardless. Most people only have 130-150hp.
@@KidArkxin apocalypse one shots are common. Only specific tank builds can survive these. So healers won’t be able to save anyone that is susceptible to one shots. (Which is most builds)
@@KidArkx yes, they dye anyway i know, but it depends on a build, a healer share it's healing, burden of the divine + relik healing efficency, 3 people can use it properly and it work...
I face-tanked all of apocalypse, only needing to dodge one-shot mechanics with resonating heart. I've helped people clear apoc in a 3-man group with both players dead simply because I could not die. All the crystal heart builds I tried weren't even close and would consistently fail because I wasn't topped off.
@@JodouTR Cristal heart is good but is not instant, it gives you more DR thats why is good too, take less damage, less healt loss. Resonant is too much for a one man use, it heal so much healt but you can't survive with just healt (thats what he saying in the video) and thats why he use the cristal, we all know that we play in apocalisse only with the leto mark 2 and we have minimum 65% damage reduction, and we survive all the attacs that are not one shot, but the casul player its different, so we can use the resonant, but we need DR instead healt...
Now that I'm at the point where I have most things and am playing with builds I have to say that I think Armor/DR needs some adjustment. Armor is kinda broken as it is IMO. Mainly due to Brightsteel/Omens providing insane value. Like, look at what you need to sacrifice to achieve high/capped DR + fast roll without them.
I use resonating heart in my build just because it helps my party heal. We aint good players. What would be a good support relic to use though? Would crystal heart work?
I'm in awe seeing all of the DR and buildcrafting discussion here. I honestly just go 40-50% DR and try to practice my dodges, but it's still fascinating. In any case, it does seem disproportionally imbalanced that you can run any of these tanky builds in Apocalypse at all, doesn't it? Seeing you in the video feels a bit sluggish and easy. Especially given how Crystal Heart makes you slower.
The devs said they want all builds to be viable in apocalypse. They said they don’t want just damage builds to be meta in apocalypse. And to be fair you do have to do quite a bit of grinding to get to the point where you can effectively tank apocalypse. If you’re good at dodging then even a basic dps build will do you just fine
I agree that it seems imbalanced according to my subjective standard of what is balanced. Any player can be unkillable assuming they are flawless with their dodging, and in terms of balance, the lowered dps of tankier builds should be offset by less reliance on dodging for survivability. Now for both dps and tank builds I think there are points where the game ends up breaking. For instance, a dps build being able to melt a boss before the entirety of a boss' attacks or mechanics can be experienced or tank builds literally face tanking every hit from a boss with such minimal effort that the boss' attacks and mechanics don't matter. However, this is just my opinion. Some people find enjoyment out of making super strong builds and that's fine, different strokes for different folks and whatnot, but, I like the amount of attention required with builds with more required mobility and killable as they seem more engaging to me. I often run a hybrid melee tank and dps or support build with challenger prime with various secondaries. I only have 40-50% base DR as well with The tankier portions focused on DR for elemental dmg and friendly fire. I like meleeing and do so in a curteous manner (ie not run in front of other people's line of fire, prioritizing enemies not being shot to avoid staggering others' targets, attacking same targets from the other side so I don't block others bullets, etc.) But, after getting downed by wanton merciless cannons, enigma shocks, and those freakin' firestorms I started to get fed up haha. So I took max kinship, booster ring, and hardcore metal band among other things and now charge into firestorms as the vortex effect glues me to the target (which is nice considering the short range of the knuckle weapon I use). Is this super strong build? Nope, niche and generalist. Do I have fun with it? Absolutely, it's engaging and the freedom of armor choice let's me have fun building a cool-looking cosmetic set.
What are your thoughts on the shield heart? I'm not sure exactly how shield works, but I do know it's hp and stagger reduction. I like to run shield, then run in and Regen with melee. It's essentially double HP for 20 seconds, which to me is huge. I have a feeling shield doesn't benefit from armor but I'm not sure. What do you think?
I would imagine to use the 20 sec heal over time vs the Crystal Heart is time to unload your weapon? I mean even watching your footage you basically only get off 1 or two shots from a sniper rifle. I imagine you can swap to a shotgun or long gun with low ammo just fine, but wanting to use other weapons the 20 sec heal gives you more time to unload a clip. Gives you more options to pick for damage?
This exactly. Factoring crystal heart absolutely needs 100% uptime every 8-9s is abysmal. You don't NEED to exploit resonating heart to still be ok, which gives you an entire 20s window to ress people, pop stims, unload a clip of merciless for the bleed vs regen bosses, etc. You also don't suffer 50% movement reduction which can get you killed standing in puddles, not making it to the next platform, being unable to make it to a friend in time. The trade off is pretty bad for more health regen that is completely pointless once you're capped. Resonating heart does work even after max HP.
I wonder if resonating heart still works like this. It now reads "...any overhealed health to self is doubled..." so I wonder if it's taking into account minions or not.
SOLO BUILD: ruclips.net/video/bo-2ewDDkGQ/видео.html
(COOP BUILD)THE ONE USE-CASE FOR RESO: ruclips.net/video/HGIhacjr_ro/видео.html
CALCULATOR: cowaii.io and ruclips.net/video/0BqHNkViEFI/видео.html
Didn't clarify explicitly in the video but I know there are use-cases in non-tank builds for reso, but my challenge to you guys is to find one in a tank build that isn't outdone by crystal. If you guys find any I'll add it in below here on the pinned comment.
I'm completely unoriginal and using your summoner build that you said was unoptimizes as I start an apoc run. By all means feed my unoriginal ass a good Engineer build that can tank and kill Annihilation.
How does handler’s first skill work with damage reduction? It doesn’t show up in the advanced stats so does that mean it’s in a different bucket from total dr?
Challenge accepted, use crystal to tank dam and get to that 1 guy who is always across the damn pit to manually revive them.
Also the game is not just bosses and 1 shots so unless you just stand around popping relics losing movement speed hurts any game that is meant to do "Runs" , let me do the math run - 50% = walk. Against hard hitting mobs a fresh (not spamming) crystal use only lets me take 2-3 more hits, but I might take those extra hits walking instead of running and on top of all that if you know how to get your DR cap without having to rely on popping relics and watching cool downs the extra DR is just wasted and we all know how you feel about that...
Here's my 1472.35 ehp build with resonating heart:
Medic + summoner
Resonating heart with DR, HP, armor fragment
rusted navigator
Dense silicon ring
seal of empress
ring of robust
hardcore metal band - abused with helfire / gas giant to maintain 5 stacks of bulwark
Fortify, Vigor, Blood Bond, Rugged, Barksin, Bloodstream, Glutton
25 hp tonic
song of eafir
this gets you 387.8 armor, 230 hp and 79.58% DR. It's very similar in nature to your medic + summoner build, but main difference being exploiting self damage with hardcore metal band. Obviously crystal heart means I could drop out some of the negation buffs, whereas resonating heart effectively lasts twice as long.
So love these vids they are so much help. I have a huge issue with the build vids that are out and people calling things tank builds when there are no tanks in the game because i have not found a taunt skill in the game. I am also in the process of making builds vids and tip guilds and I have to say I'm just glad I'm not the only one that is irritated lmfao
as far as im aware the reason why resonating is so insane in terms of healing is the interaction with summons and teammates. Either the medic team perk that heals allies for 30% of relic or the burden of the divine or both count as overheal for resonating 20 sec healing pool. Basically each allied summon/teammate act as a separate healing multiplier. You can make an argument for crystal being better in cases where you need it to reach 80% dr, but calling resonating trash is massive copium. Its still strong af, if not better if you value your move speed and would rather chug a relic every 20-25 sec instead of 10.
Agreed. Sure this guy did the math and on paper Crystal Heart is better but in practice this just isn't always true. You need to factor in QoL and coop play as you said. I have tried his Crystal Heart build in coop with some friends and we still had a hard time , swapped to the resonating heart and all of a sudden the extra time between relic uses and constant healing paired with my summons and the ring that shares healing made a HUGE difference. Game felt a lot easier and more chill. Not to mention you can use a DoT gun and just throw a dot on your summons and have constant relic refills 24/7.
exactly. you only need one relic and one ring, heals fine.
solo and tanking, i can see the DR with crystal being tops. in a group, in highly mobile fights and you can help DPS, RH all day
@@andreww.8056How did you try his build when it's not up yet?
@@PULPPUNKBKthe summoner build he posted a week or two ago utilised crystal heart
@BKDAWSON anyone can make a build sport 😂
I used resonating heart on a couple regen builds I was messing around with and, as in the video, found myself still getting squished. The crystal heart seems to make my character more survivable although I'm not a fan of the movement restriction. Thank you for crunching the numbers and sharing your results; helps me make sense of the results I was getting when experimenting.
This is a wonderful breakdown. The only thing I think you didn't fully address is 'action economy'. I like the Resonating heart b/c it is 25 seconds of healing each pop instead of 10 seconds of healing per pop. (If using the exploit it's 20 seconds of healing). You do mention the increased frequency being beneficial, but those triggers are usually met with Resonating Heart w/o any loss of buff time, so in those instances, the increased "dps uptime" of not having to pop another heart is beneficial.
All in all, your math is flawless and on paper your argument is absolute. I just think when it comes to sense of feel and action economy, Resonating Heart does have the advantage.
When
Yeah...not even a relic spam tanker here, but having to chug a relic every 10 seconds leaves you much less time to actually do stuff compared to every 20s / 25s. I'd also argue the levels of healing and DR tanking of both builds are excessive for the majority of situations in Apoc, though that's more a question of playstyle / build goal.
He lost so much credibility when in the first section of the video he talks about Clickbait titles and how negative they are. And then goes on to call resonating a heart “fucking garbage” Even with his own math, it wouldn’t be garbage it would just not be as good. The hypocrisy is alive and well.
@@Shannendetro I mean...it's not like he clickbaited. The video is called "Stop using Resonating Heart..." and he explains his thought process on that. He actually delivered on exactly what the video title is. It's his stance on using the heart. Too easy.
He definitely shouldn't have attacked the other builds though...especially since most of the ones I've seen do what they claim to do: mindlessly help you clear Apoc.
I wouldn't call that hypocrisy though, just poor judgement.
I prefer resonating in coop. I like to be a primary support and let the dps guys do what they do. My build isn't optimized though. It's balanced to just help get the job done effectively and heal the living shit out of my teammates. That said, this is about being the talkies tank possible, and he's 100% right there. DR is critical
Thank god someone is talking about these invincible builds with actual critique
The only reason I can think of using resonating over crystal in this context is that you are more free in terms of the timing for the buff, crystal only lasts 10s so you have to be a little more aware of that, meanwhile resonating is basically active for 25 seconds so you have a bigger window to perform more actions and you only need to be aware of 1 hit attacks. Also since you only have 10s with crystals, means that you will consume hearts faster which is not ideal in some boss fights like Nightweaver on her second phase. For Anihilation however your crystalheart build is WAY better.
So I think while the crystalheart is objectively better, bot builds are still valid and have their uses. Nice vid.
Nightweaver is the best example of how both hearts fall down considering you're taking spike damage, but resonating lasts far longer and can be timed more efficiently. On her fight I typically am just running out of hearts when she dies with not even close to perfect play. Crystal you risk missing getting the heal off before something goes wrong and you're just dead.
Res Heart doesn't give any DR so the healing effect time becomes irrelevant once you're dealing with extremely strong boss attacks. Lets say the balls on Annihilation; Doesn't matter how long your Res Heart lasts, they will take you out. With Crystal Heart, it's actually possible to survive the hit from 4/5 of them. Double that with a Shield active at the same time.
So yes you have to be cognizant of when to pop Crystal but in order to exploit Res Heart you have to do the same thing. And the reward from Crystal is far more beneficial that that received from Res Heart at the toughest levels.
@@terrellestephens8922if you're taking 4/5 ball shots in the Final boss fight, heals aren't your problem, DPS is.. take them out faster and they're not an issue..
or use the cube gun shield, it stops a full round if them, even in Apoc
@@terrellestephens8922 Crystal Heart doesnt give you DR over 80% and you can have 80% DR and run Resonating Heart. Sure, using Crystal Heart frees up a potential ring slot or two for flexibility, but you have to micromanage it more.
@@Zasureinif your using medic as prime. No need to micromanage. You aren’t going to run out relic charges.
You've become my go-to Remnant build guy. Love this stuff. Thank you.
Honestly love the way you represent the data. Great explanation and overview. Would love to see some sections on the EHP to account for shields
I agree. A shield build would be cool. Its an interesting modifier.
Here's an obvious use-case for Resonating Heart over Crystal Heart:
Your campaign didn't give you Crystal Heart.
Resonating Heart is guaranteed in Root Earth, and it does work under many circumstances, even if it's not optimal, but in say a HC run, or someone's first campaign, they may not have every item by the time they reach a certain fight, so build guides suggesting a sub-optimal loadout might still be useful for a player that has those items, and not those of a better build.
I experimented with multiple loadouts, and found success and challenges with many. Even if maxing EHP is the best way to tank, it still leaves you vulnerable to the many guaranteed one-shot mechanics, and was not viable against Cancer pre-patch due to his roots ignoring DR, so it's understandable that people would have tried and succeeded with other options.
I didn't know how buggy resonating heart is but it always felt inconsistent. Crystal heart always felt consistent all the time which is why I used it.
Crystal heart seems one of the most valuable relics since the 25% DR helps to reach DR cap for some setups. Like If im not able to melee my steadfast is not doing anything at that moment which allows crystal heart to cover up that shortfall. Consistency is the name of the game with crystal heart.
I have a build with resonating where in apocalypse fighting final boss with spiteful and thick skin mu team didn't have to heal themselves and were basically glass cannons
For me crystal heart always buggs out while resonating works consistent how it should weird
@zeypheruk yeah, but you lose half of your movement speed, I can't use it,
@@goobgaming564 True but again its in respect of tanky characters. The whole video is related to tanking and in that regards its fine.
love these mechanic mythbuster vids. keep up the good work.
Played through on survivor fully content in knowing i was never going to be able to take on apoc. Saw a crystal heart build as well as a resonating heart build and i'll say this. Resonating heart build gave me the confidence to go straight into apoc and solo the entire campaign up until venom and final boss. Those two i needed help with and I'm fine with that. That being said, there were i think 3 things in the game that could one shot me. Venom's lance throw and digital ground goo and faelins big ground slam in his final phase of health. That's it... I was so proud to be able to solo apoc and really felt like i improved even if it was a bit exploitative with health regen i still got very good with timing and dodging.
Now for the crystal heart build i tried.... that shit felt like ass to play and almost turned me off to apoc altogether. The 50% slow speed sucks so you have to be a tank to survive which is fine... but you're not immune to stagger so it felt like i was constantly stagger locked and with the slow speed i just had to deal with it until they stopped attacking or the buff wore off. Being immortal is useless if you can't fight back and letting your turret do all the work is no fun plus takes all day for one boss fight.
Now, I'm fully content to admit that there may have been a flaw of some sort or something i did wrong/could have done better that would yield a better result but based on what i tried running.... one of the two builds got me through apoc and the other did not. It just meant that i had to be vigilant of the one move that actually could kill me and with BSR i could move about and dodge freely.
I stopped using resonating/crystal heart when I got tranquil heart. I like the passive heals more.
While Crystal Heart is more flat heals than say Resonating heart based on math alone.
The reason I used resonating was specifically the 20second DOT heal. I don't care if it's slightly weaker overall heal by a couple %%%.
The point is that I can throw it on and not think about my HP for 20 seconds while it simultaneously heals my Summons, Turret, and Teammates as a DOT heal. (Using Burden of the Divine)
Pre-emptively popping resonating heart for enemy attacks that would take large chunks of HP for the group is a good way to keep the team alive while also still dealing DPS in between.
If I had to Crystal Heart everytime one of my friends needed HP I wouldn't be shooting at all.
Each heart has its pros and cons.
To say "stop using X because another provides slightly more healing" is a bit short sighted in a game with a variety of builds.
If you really want to "Tank" apocalypse correctly.
Get yourself:
Generating Band ring.
Ring of Crisis.
Constricting Ring.
Reprocessed Heart.
Put 1 trait point into gray health Regen. Put Medic lvl 10 as secondary class. (Or put 10 points into the +50% Regen trait. And not use medic.)
Equip constricting ring to put you at 50% HP. Take it off. And replace with any ring you desire. It is no longer needed.
This action drops your HP to 50%.
Then use your reprocessed heart
This action eats your HP at 5 per second.
When your HP hits 25% the magic happens.
You get a shield for 25% of your total HP from ring of crisis.
BUT your HP is still ticking down under the shield slightly. While the grey health Regen is keeping it up.
The effect is likely a bug, but appears that the two heals counter each other.
It looks like you "ride the line" at 25% life going briefly under it for a second and then back above it due to Regen. Which causes the 25% shield to proc insanely fast while the relic is active.
And I mean FAST. You get 5 health bars worth of shields. Not even kidding.
If your relic is about to fall off. Use another or you lose your shields lol.
The entire final boss fight for Apoc took me 8-9 relic uses. But I was able to literally tank everything except the true 1 shot mechanics the boss throws at you.
You still want to dodge attacks because you can be staggered.
Took me 7 hours to beat Apoc
With you on this. Not the tranquil heart won’t work for these types of builds.
I was waiting for this video, last one was informative and hilarious as f, gained a sub that day lol
Thanks for doing this vid: I had seen both versions of the build and was testing, but it's nice to just use your math. Helped me beat an Aberration that had been 1 shotting me.
Also with all of those "unkillable" guides, they not only conveniently forget to mention that you aren't stacking the healing if it's actually healing you, most of them seem to think that the heel per second is doubled for 20 seconds, not total healing doubled and then spread out. It's fucking infuriating.
Thank you for being one of the only remnant content creators who can either read or do math.
I feel you bro but for me resonating heart is what carried me through the apocalypse run , like even final boss was easy it took a while but I just sat back and kept popping relics while summons did damage and I was shooting a little bit myself I appreciate the video I’ll try another run on apocalypse with this and see what’s guud
I’d like to think you’re the Terminus station conductor if he were real and the ending proves my point. Love your detailed breakdowns on DR and helped me made a viable support build on apoc!
So I'm not sure I'm understanding everything that you are listing here but as a "support healer" wouldn't having the longer heal over time be more effective with the res heart? I understand for survivability in the max difficulty not getting one shot is important however would this healing and survivability transfer to my teammates?
This is my question also, since I like playing the Support Healer in multiplayer. I believe Resonating Heart would be better here, however if the damage reduction on Crystal Heart were to transfer to teammates, then yeah I could see crystal winning out. Since that is not the case with the Crystal Heart, I guess it comes down to easier uptime on heals vs. shorter uptime but added damage reduction on you, in which case I'd swap to crystal for fights I have a hard time with and keep resonating for everything else.
yes. his point about one shot is moot. if you have 1000. ehp or 500 ehp and the one shot is 1500, does it make a difference? nope, you're still dead
Your the only Chanel I subscribed to for remnant 2 vids you have the knowledge and you seem to care about us getting through apocalypse. Thank you
I did notice that some channels talk about resonating like it "doubles" the healing, but from the very first time I got it and read the description I ccould tell that that's not what it says it does nor is it the effect it gives. Great video, looking forward to that build since I want to optimize my DR and I haven't been able to reach those 80% yet.
No one even paid attention to what you were saying.. or understood it.. which i guess is kind of hard to come by.
Thank you for the build and knowledge!!
This is the kind of YT recommendations i need, thanks for the info mate. Well presented and said. Keep at it!
My heart only resonates for you Vash ❤
Cackled at this comment
Man, thank God u chose remnant 2. You are a blessing sir. Subscribed.
I absolutely love your theorycrafting. I myself am by no means able to do this but I did feel like a regen build was janky, something felt... Off. Gonna try your suggested build soon, maybe it'll all *click* together. Thank you for your effort and the educational video!
Yeah, except builds that stack high HP 300+ with 65%+ DR are unkillable with exception of Venom's one-shots. Two reasons to take Res Heart over Crystal are: the movement modifier makes sprint evading attacks impossible (GL on Venom) and the refresh timer of needing to overlap every 10s vs every 15s. Resonating is far more forgiving in that window and doesn't even need to be perfect chained to double-dip so you're always covered. Crystal heart allows you to be vulnerable in situations where you have to decide whether ressing a person will get you killed or not.
Looking at spreadsheets is a hot garbage approach with no field data other than "herp, derp I don't die except to the same one-shots everyone faces". I've done extensive testing and in practice, crystal heart is terrible.
Ye, Venom does not have a one-shot attack. He has 2 fairly high damage attacks, but they can be tanked.
@@VashCowaii 330 HP with 70% DR and he cut right through me with his sword toss and the slow moving orb. I’ve never seen anyone take that hit.
@@VashCowaii One shot attacks (or attacks that are close to it) should be dodged anyway as they aren't that common in boss rotations in comparison to other attacks. On the other hand, majority of attacks can be tanked with hp regen/shields and some movement. Crystal heart speed debuff means only valid movement you can do is spam dodge rolls. And that works only on builds with infinite stamina. That ties to using ring that gives you said infinite stamina but also you lose 25% DR for which now you have to compensate with your crystal heart DR. Relic doesn't exist in vacuum. Btw, another unlimited dodge build would be with ring of omens, which actually benefits with regen over longer time window.
TLDR: To use Crystal heart, you need to compensate for the 50% move speed debuff. Best ways to compensate for it also reduce effectiveness of said relic. Shielded heart is better at what Crystal heart is supposed to achieve.
Crystal use in Vernon will get you killed. those big red puddles get on you and you can't move out of it? see you at the Stone.
With RH, I roll thru them intentionally to recharge my relic count.. 😂
@@SixballQ45 LOL YEP! I once noticed my hearts weren't capped at 10 so I just took a frolic through the puddle to cap out again. 🤣
Yeh idk.. after using both extensively resonating still does more group healing when in coop.. idk if I’m doing something wrong or what but having resonating up all the time does more to keep my party alive than crystal heart does
I play co-op as well and have used both. Resonating heart does seem much better for co-op.
Yea it does heal way better for allies, he doesn’t use it because he’s just focusing on self sustain
Awesome Video, love the math and breakdown. Very common sense coming from games like Path of Exile where I use spreadsheets all the time to calculate advanced theory.
Resonating got me through Annihilation just fine, appreciate the info though.
What I like about resonating heart is that for the next 15-20 secs I dont have to pop a relic. This gives me more time to reload, deal damage, pop ammo box, ect. My build with it was a Medic/summoner and I was able to beat annihilation on the 2nd try in Apoch diff. I agree with everything you said tho, but personally still prefer Resonating over crystal. With my set up the only thing that could kill me is the ball attack, and thats if I dont destroy any of them. I also dont think I used the exploit much, since I would pop it a little early to make sure I had it up 100% of the time.
So the key is crystal heart gives you 25 DR, making it easier to reach the 80 cap. And this means you may have more free slots to stack either DPS or healing effectiveness.
Then this shall be a DR + healing build, instead of the old pure DR invincible build pre-patch.
Interesting and inspiring. Good video.
I freakin love your videos. Actual data, not click baiting people with words like UNSTOPPABLE or UNDYING
I try very hard to avoid that kind of bait
I don't get it.
Resonating Heart has a slow burn for more free time and a larger window for Regenerator to proc.
Crystal Heart has a fast burn with additional DR (Should you need it) at the cost of your movement speed.
They both out regen most hits in the game, and they both die to the same boss attacks they can't. Different method same result, maybe I'm missing something but they both feel great to me for tank/healing builds with slightly differing purposes.
agreed. Crystal for stationary tanks. RH for mobile heals. I've cleared full apoc runs no less than 3 times and walk thru the Anni fights with ease.
Only bugger to it is the Empathy modifier on bosses. you literally have to out DPS your own heals
@@SixballQ45 "...out DPS your own heals"
Finally a worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary!
This is super useful info, especially about the exploit. I always felt like the healing was inconsistent. I'm partial to resonating because I've beaten every apocalypse boss with it and it's nice to just kinda forget about having to heal for 20 seconds, plus i cant stand the movement speed reduction of crystal, but I'm definitely picking up crystal when they fix the exploit.
I must admit, your breakdown with the percentages was a bit confusing but I can’t argue with my result. I just finished Nightmare and I was getting my ass handed to me over and over with the resonating heart so I switched to the crystal heart and just like you said, my healing was the difference. Great video and thanks for the tip.
I have found when playing being able to use a resonating heart to heal much better than the crystal heart due to one big thing and that is if you need to heal cause the damage taken can not be covered by the crystal heart you cannot use another charge to heal and must wait the full 10 seconds before another charge can be used this is not the case for the resonating heart so although you might miss on DR i find just dodging the ohkos much easier than trying to hope that the 100% health heal will last the full ten seconds and i have enough time to use another right after.
Sound logic, but what if we don't want to use Crystal Heart every 10 sec? Can you please make a tank build that uses a different relic as an alternative?
I'm really glad I found this video. It explained why I was terrible with roasting heart (not using it regularly) and also why I was still getting murdered even when I did use it in an exploitative way.
Going to switch relics and continue my apoc run. :)
This is really turning into "Someone Is Mathematically Wrong On the Internet, the Channel", and I'm here for it.
Lmfao, glad to hear it
For the Medic/Summoner combo specifically. The Resonating Heart is still the best. You aren't only specc'd into healing since your minions are also absorbing damage dealt to you. RH is also the only heart with over healing, which means that you do not need to wait for your minions to be damaged in order to heal them a d regenerate infinite relic charges.
I 100% agree and have tested that RH is better than the CH if you are playing in a group. To call Resonating Heart complete garbage is just a person lashing out because he has no friends....
@@ghost_m3pi think you are taking it too far out of context, he is looking at it in terms of survuvability and overall health regained and sustained, the data shown proves that. Sure, its better to use in certain scenarios, but i dont think saying he is "lashing out because he has no friends" is a reasonable argument. Its a far better option when solo, just leave it at that and dont be toxic over something that isnt affecting you personally
This makes so much sense. I couldn't understand why in some instances my health recovery seemed so high with this item but lower in other instances. I just assumed it was bugged. It was likely because I was double dipping in some cases w/o realizing it.
I always thought the resonating heart seemed like an item directly meant for the medic and group play. It seems designed more so for maintaining your hearts while supporting your team. The crystal heart is great but I personally dislike the 50% slow. My preference is the void heart despite it taking slightly longer to provide you the heal.
Thats true, my tank build using this hearth is alnost unkillable, but sometimes I do get oneshot from full health
Also: I really like your videos, well explained with nice helpful screenshots that give a quick and conplete overview, great explanation to the numbers and nice Thumbnails^^
I never knew res heart has an exploit like that. Honestly thats cool you went in and did the math. Ill try out crystal more and definitely leaving a sub
I've noticed that the double dip doesnt occur if you get hit within the final second of the initial 5 seconds, which is maybe why it can feel inconsitent. Plus, if you do get hit in those 5 seconds, you lose out on potential over heal.
Although, slap a Game Masters Pride (Splits damage evenly - this is assuming you have a friend) and a Burden of the Divine (shares 50% of healing to allies) and you have two rings and an amulet to make up for in damage. The real tank is having 70% or so DR, and then having that final 30% halved again. One shots now look like a minor inconvenience. Pair that with two sets of summons (from you and your friend) and a soul link, and so long as you don't get hit in the 5 seconds of resonating heart, you get the double dip, soul link heal (assuming you equip that), and siphoner heal, from both of you. You have all the heling, with all the DR. Make a relic chugging build, have one player chug relics, while the other specs into a class other than medic.
Sure, its a two or three player only thing, and yes, if you both get hit by a one shot, you'll both get turned into dust, but we've completed apocalypse with it, and honestly, we shouldn't have done it. Took the fun out of the game completely. My advice, forget about tank builds, and start feeling good about the fact that you can dodge (or not) boss attacks like a pro.
Anyway, good video, I do agree with you. Me and my friend probably should have used the Crystal Heart, but it was the double dip that sent things over the edge. In a weird way, I hope it gets patched.
and heres my take on the valid point even if im wrong, Summoner the healing over time applies to your sommons even if you your self are over healing, yes this is easly recreated with other players but you can do it solo and that does make a hug diffrence. but this build does get shot down if you cant take a hit in the first place, not to mention it isnt a easy win build ether, youll have to focus on staying alive if your belowe 70%hp over keeping your minoin aive (no i did not mis type the root rever is the minoin i recomen using for this build considering that it by defalt Will take a hit from ANNI provide you leveld up the summon hp trate)
I think resonating heart got it advantage of 25s window for damage compare to the 10s of crystal heart
You can absolutely tank annihilation with resonating heart. only thing that will kill you is if all the death balls hit you. This is on 3p coop apoc. Also very easy to regen resonating hearts as a medic due to 20s heal duration.
This, beat Apoc not too long ago spamming Resonating hearts. Only thing that "one shot' me my entire run was Venom's third hit in his three hit chain, and it I got hit by 3+ orbs in Annihilation's fight.
@Shishomuru same. Venom's third hit and his sword throw were getting me, but I just needed to keep more distance to avoid that. The death balls were not killing me nearly as much since I had higher HP and very rapid heals. I know they are supposed to be shot but wasn't always an option, especially in phase 2 when he summons like 20 of them and keeps phase shifting and you can't focus on them at all.
Resonating heart is fine if you are already otherwise hitting 80% DR and have 180+ HP. What makes crystal heart better than resonating heart is it heals just as effectively (actually more effectively without the stacking) and it gives you 25% DR so you’ve freed up at least a ring slot and 10 trait points to put into health, damage or other QOL. If you’re playing coop and everyone has high enough EHP so no one is going down easily, and you don’t need to output much damage yourself, resonating heart is great. Press it every 20 seconds and you will be healing infinitely in no time. Solo, the value the 25% DR crystal heart gives is insane value on top of the high healing.
I have completed apocalypse never needed the resonating heart. Great video love the math you did also. I used tranquil heart with relic effectiveness buffs and got as much DR I can get. Ran medic and alchemist. Yes my DPS was not the best but it was enough.
What about if the boss has empathy?
Dude I did the same! I kinda merged your build with their max hp build to get the best out of ehp. And it's far more solid than anything I've seen or tried before. Thanks for yet another informative vid.
The only reson I see to use resonating heart over crystal heart is in lower difficulties like vetran (where a large portion of the games player base resides) where EHP dosent matter anywhere near as much, the 20-25 seconds of effective low grade healing without movment restrictions can be more usefull here for newer players, expecialy those running builds other than tanks, but in all other cases the crystal heart beats it.
In anything under apocalypse you don't even use relics... my farming build has lifestyle and full melee damage. I just run the fuck thru one shooting regulars and staggerlockign elites. You never need to even heal lol
What if my build with Nimue's ribbon, resonating heart, and a bunch of health boosting rings was purely to ensure my teammates and summons were alive and I didn't care about damage?
It's good if ur team-mates dont have 100hp which most bosses can one shot and if ur team-mates spec into tank build its the same as u r doing
@@whatever_2808 I did an apoc run with 2 friends, they pretty much went pure DPS, probably only 50-60DR. I kept them alive and they melted every boss. Solo for sure I'm either not doing enough damage or I'm just sitting there heading for hours chipping away at health, but I would not say the Resonating Heart is not viable in tank builds
@@garrettyimI would say for tanking, Crystal is better for the DR boost. But, for us healers, like he proved, RH and it's mechanics, not an exploit BTW, is still king
As long as your friends can take a ohko and still get up like randy marsh you're golden.
Its exactly why I started using it while playing with one of my friends that has a habit of Leroy Jenkins-ing mobs. He can usually survive the hits but can't survive the dps. So I started stacking regen just to out heal the dps he was taking.
That's the only thing RH has going for it. Being able to out heal the dps for your teammates. There might be other builds better at it but I haven't found any.
the only thing I will say is, I never got oneshot by anything in apoc using resonating, likely because my build had overcap DR, and resonating was providing ~27% hp per sec, and this is me using it AFTER the 20sec heal had expired, so not even taking advantage of its selfstacking healing since this video is the first I ever heard of this interaction
Edit - wording accuracy
Hell of a video! I feel like I could be responsible for the whole resonating heart trend haha. Granted, I never made the claims that some Tubers have since my video. It was the first Relic that I found that was viable for a healer build (and still is even outside of a potential exploint) but I do like what I see with crystal, especially if you are solo. I would say that in my experience one upside resonating would have over crystal is the 10 extra seconds of passive healing offered to your teammates that would keep you from having to spam them as often but, the build does leave you open to getting one-shot if you struggle with dodging. I was never going to go as deep to spread sheet this but Im definitely going to try it out. If I switch ill make sure to link this vid on my updated build guide! You explain the raw numbers better than I ever could. 🤙
(Edit Nice name btw )
also what attact in the game dals over 800 damage without it being programed to just kill you in the frist place?
So using resonating and a build splitting damage with summoner and rugged with the highest helth a can achieve and the highest armor really only found 2 attacks that could oneshot that being venoms spear throw if he has any sort of damage modifier and being hit by all of anailations balls in the cyber demission and im curious if you can tank that with the crystal heart
The math says no..
You have done amazing work and have my support
Yay, was waiting for this 👍
What about unsullied heart? Heals 100% of current of health over 0.5 seconds. Is it viable?
That sounds alright as long as you remember to use it when you get close to 50% Since it's 100% of CURRENT health, that means the less health you have when you use it, the less health you get.
Thanks again. The resonating heart has been lacking and your breakdown helped understand why.
yup.. you tank with crystal, heal with RH
The resonating heart was neat before I got the crystal heart. I didn't know you could stack the heals in the first place, but crystal heart just seemed more consistent for the health regen builds
Have you tried the tranquil heart for health regen? I find it to be the best but that’s for me personally, I haven’t done any math or anything.
Thank u for this! Subscribed 🙌🏽
Incredible. It’s videos like these that make me feel not so along and insane lol. I’m usually like “how does everyone (purportedly) end up achieving these wildly fantastical results in their gameplay, yet when I copy it, I don’t?!” It’s because you AREN’T unkillable using their builds. Taking advantage of a patchable exploit is more trouble in the long term because since most people would be unaware of how the exploit works, they might be fooled into coming to understand dynamics that aren’t pervasive throughout the game - only present within niche circumstances, and even then, it requires a lot of things to go RIGHT (so, half luck/half skill) in order to achieve results that aren’t bewildering and frustrating lol. Thank you so much for these. No other creator on YT, or otherwise, has made this information so digestible and easy to utilize as you have, and I hope we get to see more actual builds in the future.
P.S. personally, I’d love to see what you come up with in regards to build using the ring of omens and/or misty step (if you think it’s even worth it). Also maybe something that could work well without medic that isn’t HUGS? I feel a bit boxed in due to pretty much NEEDING to run medic as my primary if I want to not get curb-stomped in apocalypse lol. Also maybe a brief rundown of your favorite and least favorite amulets/rings/primaries/traits/handguns/melee/archetype combos. In that order of importance (to me, at least).
Cheers and thanks again!!!🎉🎉🎉
question
Passive regen build idea
Medic/Summoner
Doe sigil,( for the healing effectiveness, and sweet sweet misty dodge)
Ring of omens, (for that sweet misty dodge)
Burden of the divine (To give health to both co-op players and summons)
Reserve boosting Gem(more pasive regen)
Ring of the forest spirit (more healing effectiveness)
Leto mark 2
Tranquil heart
Not sure on the traits save Triage, & Regrowth, maybe add some bloodstream so your countering the dodge health zap, but would this work and what else would need to be added to make it work....
Love the video dude. Wondering if you could do a video about 2/3 person coop that tries to maximize health regeneration.
Well, I didn't know it was an exploit with the resonating heart, but my role was to maintain a steady supply of heal not to tank. Thank you for your explanation I'll try the other one and see if it can improve.
The best remnant info anyone can get.
I agree with most but not all. I myself have made a healing build guide with resonating heart as the relic used. When you play coop, no one is running 0% DR. If that is the case, yes you wont be able to heal them. However, the overheal is not proc'ing the same way over the 20s as it is the first proc over 5s. And if you use the relic midway like 10-15s during the overheal, the overheal gets reset also. I explain all this in my channel. Take a look at my healer build video and the boss fights and take a very close look at the hp of my allies. Also, using the crystal heart as a healer does not give the DR to your allies. It only applies to yourself. And, i aint using the buzzwords either. Buzzwords just overhype everything
I am confused as to how someone who didn't develop the game or the heart can classify this as an exploit when you don't have all the information to determine how it was intended to work when stacked.....
plus, how many free scrap and wall hack exploits have been patched out, yet the RH stack remains? hmmm
but he has the spreadsheets
Fantastic video, managed to break down all the math and everything in an easy to understand way. One thing i'll point out though is that you didnt take into account coop play, and using resonating heart for a full regen burden of the divine support build. I played through with two other players using melee/close range tank DR builds, and it was loads of fun chilling in the back while they couldnt die. Secondly, i belive a dev has already commented on how stuff like the crazy regen you can stack isnt considered an exploit but rather something they wanted the medic class and builds to be able to do (since like you have pointed out, its not actually crazy op) yet fulfills a type of playstyle fantasy. They said they might nerf numbers ofc but it was an intentional mechanic. Regardless, much love! Your videos are great! ❤
Okay, so here's my build for resonating heart. It's has more tank than the Crystal Heart build, but you have to heavy roll:
The healing allows you to sub Nimue's for Twisted Idol. This with Fortify/Relic Frag/Ring of Robust gives you 458 Armor (69.6% DR)
Stack
20/30.4 = 0.629
Need 35% to hit cap (Trait, Relic Frag, Melee Mutator)
Seal of Empress + Tonic + Robust Ring = 212.8 HP
Rerouting Cable = up to 50% MORE HP = 319.2
Divide by 0.2 (DR) = 1596
Divide by 0.85 (Eafir) = 1877.6
Divide by 0.9 = 2086 Total Effective HP
Crystal Heart is not quite as tough (but can be if you're okay with flopping), but you get Haste and Lightest Dodge roll or Misty step instead of haste with Red Doe. All in all I like Crystal Heart build more, but only if you have Gluttony trait, because having to chug that potion so frequently sucks with the standard animation.
Your only part right about healing not being true tanking. Yes, if you don't have MORE than healing in your back pocket, your capacity to tank a hit is diminished HOWEVER, being a tanky isn't an all or nothing ordeal. Tankiness is a sliding scale of effectiveness, determined by a variety of things and ONE of the things that determines your tankiness is your ability to receive multiple hits in a row. By this single concept a build with base healing built in vs a built without is less tanky assuming your DR values are consistent. At 100 health, at 80% damage reduction in order to be one shot by an attack that attack must deal over 495 damage. If you cant heal after this, the very next hit, no matter how small, will kill you. HOWEVER, the more that build can passively heal after that hit drastically improves its survivability from a subsequent hit. There's a reason why healers in mmo's tend to actually be as tanky or even tankier than even tanks are.
As well, are you SURE that the resonating heart effect isn't intended? "On use, regenerates 50% of Max Health over 5s. When heal ends, any overhealed Health is Doubled and awarded over the next 20s." The language, at least, makes it sound like it refers to healing outside of the relic. "Any overhealed health" sounds like it should be double dipping into other heals.
Theoretically there is room to optimize further if we can determine some ideal EHP ranges, right? Would need to figure out the damage of any single big hits, confirm if there is anything that is literally untankable. Then we could target a min EHP to not be one shot or some other ideal range and focus our remaining fragments/jewelry on healing/damage.
See latest vid
I am the first one to admit I know very little about DR. I know a lot about how DPS works and I get into fights with people over that so much that I kinda have given up. So I assume it's a similar scenario here. If people want to believe something you cannot change their mind on that. Impossible. No matter how wrong they are.
There's nothing much to know about DR. There's DR from armor and just normal DR. Both are multiplicative with one another and the result cannot go over 80%. That's basically it. Pretty simple concept.
Love the aloof flippant style 😂keep it up
I believe the design of the game is to consider the circumstance when selecting relics, gear and guns to equip. Crystal Heart is very strong healing, but reduced speed by 50%, in situations where you need to move out of a danger area quickly or you want to move, you just have to take damage until 10s ends, you may still die if hit by boss when health is not near full when heal ends. Passive healing is still the best option, since using a relic is very slow. When you are knock down, you health still regenerating, when you dodging, it is regenerating, after all, you can only use a relic if you can survive.
Resonating Heart is amazing in team play (or if you have 2+ pets) since if you have the BotD or are a Medic they all count towards the overheal. The medic one in particular results in some swanky bs because you usually get the relic charge back every single time you use it just from the healing effect.
It’s also just easier to get the damn thing and it’s probably the second or third best relic you can use for tanking.
Using Resonating Heart prior to revive will always work better than Crystal heart and in most cases guarantee the revive. If you say you get around this by traiting into Revivalist, Resonating Heart can still benefit from Revivalist, but now it can be spent towards other traits pending playstyle.
I definitely see the benefit resonating heart would have in that scenario, but why would you want your choice of relic to pend on how it performs specifically during revive scenarios? If someone is dying that much I would think you'd have an argument for why to run Redemption as your medic skill or keep the Handler's good boy around rather than changing between these 2 relics.
Reviving? In a game that is mostly played solo? Sure buddy
@@requiemagent3014 With how easy it is to jump into someone else's game, I would question your idea of "mostly." There are whole builds dedicated to co-op play. Burden of the Divine comes to mind as a clear indication of a tank/healer build focusing on keeping teammates alive over damage output.
@@garrettyim I repeat this a lot but just because you "feel" this is a coop game doesn't make it true. Most people prefer to play this game solo. Seeing you....yeah I know why I don't play with other people. Ever.
@@requiemagent3014 I'm not knocking your solo play. You don't get to tell me how others should play this game either. There are varying builds for a reason. It's not how I "feel," it's a legitimate aspect of the game and its mechanics.
god it opens my eyes i just clueless and keep using and know nothing about it but still work well in co op for healing teammate.
Great fucking work man. Again my only argument for resonating after seeing your vids has been the QoL factor of not having to pop relic as often, and just seeing big heal numbers while running summoner with burden of the divine. But yeah man you're 100% right that Crystal Heart is king thanks for doing the math and making this vid.
The reason I hatED Crystal Heart and choose resonating heart was simple, uptime. Until I'd farmed the Glutton Trait, downing that relic every 10 seconds made me wanted to deep throat a 12 guage. With the Glutton trait, the quality of life is just so much better. It was still difficult to hit the same 80% DR, but I was still able to clock in roughly 2200 EHP.
They way you explained "effective health" around 7:10 is why I wish games would explore armor as a mechanic more. Some games make health and armor almost mean the same thing aside from "color of the bullets" and health numbers.
Hello thx for explaining how to tank better.
I have a question. If the resonating Heart have 2 separate phase of heal, does it mean your healing effectiveness apply 2 time? One for phase 5s and another time for the 20s phase? Or I am wrong?
I'm wondering why you don't use Tightly Wound Coil with that Widowmaker. 15% of your EHP refreshed every shot is pretty nice for a single ring... plus you could run Generating Band for 3%EHP/sec. I just really don't like needing to pop a relic every 10 seconds.
Saying Resonation Heart is "piping hot garbage" is as much, if not more, of a lie and click bait than saying "resonating heart is unkillable". He literally tried to say the double uptime (20s vs 10s) was somehow a bad thing cause you wanted to refresh a 30s buff every 10s? ( 10:28 ) Basic math fail. Popping a relic every 10 secs Sucks 100% more than popping one every 20 secs. Plus no mention of 50% reduced move speed and doesn't talk about how the over heal even effects summons and the 1 billion HP dog. Pretty sure this is a fail.
Interestingly enough i used crystal heart for half my playthrough on apocalypse and so happened to switch to the resonating heart relic cause i was struggling alot with a boss, the overheal is absolutely nuts and it basically looked like my character was immortal until you get one shot from a boss anyways 😅 it carried me through Apocalypse difficulty for sure but its definitly not the best build since yu rely on the relic a bit too much and spamming it can get a bit tiring... Btw my build is a generic medic Summoner with resonating relic cause im kinda trash dodging shit 😅.. running merciless rifle with twisted rounds and nebula for the corrosive DMG stack.. guilty as charged but im quite happy with it..
That's the one to use! Stacking all rings and neck for HP gain just overclock the healing into godliness. I've yet to find a better face-tank build amongst all the claims.
@@JodouTR me either!! Resonant relic might be trash according to a youtuber, but when combined with the right builds, it can overheal and tank 90% of things on apocalypse.. I haven't seen anything about it being an exploit other then here and the remnant devs haven't brought it up as an issue so idk might get patched.. I like running abrasive whetstone, zanias malice, rings of omen, ring of the robust & soul guard gets me free bulwark for every summon so I can get to a decent 61% DMG reduction on top that.. 😎
I legit was trying to crunch numbers to help my Resonating Heart build keep me alive in Apoc Annihilation fights. Only conclusion was to swap to Crystal for the 25% DR to open up more options. I'm happy the conclusion I got to was mathematically backed up lol. Hopefully I can keep my crystals up and active better than I did with Resonating.
I walk thru Anni fights, solo and in teams, with RH, and can still contribute to the DPS. seems you had a timing or rotation issue
If your also having a bit of trouble on apocaplyse or want to be even more tankier farm for the relic shards. The +15% health and armor you get from mythic shards really helped me survive.
@@SixballQ45 maybe. I just start the match with RH and while I'm mid animation he crunches me with his sword every time.
I agree that is not for a tank build, but on a healer build it's the best. Great video btw
Its not better, no one has 1000 hp. Once your overhead with resonating heart gets to a certain point, you're just overkilling. You only need to heal 200hp so that when you cut it in half you heal 100hp. If your teammate is dying with 100hp heals then they're dying regardless. Most people only have 130-150hp.
@@KidArkxin apocalypse one shots are common. Only specific tank builds can survive these. So healers won’t be able to save anyone that is susceptible to one shots. (Which is most builds)
@@KidArkx yes, they dye anyway i know, but it depends on a build, a healer share it's healing, burden of the divine + relik healing efficency, 3 people can use it properly and it work...
I face-tanked all of apocalypse, only needing to dodge one-shot mechanics with resonating heart. I've helped people clear apoc in a 3-man group with both players dead simply because I could not die. All the crystal heart builds I tried weren't even close and would consistently fail because I wasn't topped off.
@@JodouTR Cristal heart is good but is not instant, it gives you more DR thats why is good too, take less damage, less healt loss. Resonant is too much for a one man use, it heal so much healt but you can't survive with just healt (thats what he saying in the video) and thats why he use the cristal, we all know that we play in apocalisse only with the leto mark 2 and we have minimum 65% damage reduction, and we survive all the attacs that are not one shot, but the casul player its different, so we can use the resonant, but we need DR instead healt...
Pretty sure I watched that so called "unkillable" build video. knew something was fishy. Liked and subbed keep on spreading the truth brotha!
Another banger video 😎 all that healing don’t help when you’re dead
Now that I'm at the point where I have most things and am playing with builds I have to say that I think Armor/DR needs some adjustment. Armor is kinda broken as it is IMO. Mainly due to Brightsteel/Omens providing insane value. Like, look at what you need to sacrifice to achieve high/capped DR + fast roll without them.
I’m listening to Vash. If you guys really want to be good, dodge everything, get that DPS up!
I use resonating heart in my build just because it helps my party heal. We aint good players. What would be a good support relic to use though? Would crystal heart work?
I'm in awe seeing all of the DR and buildcrafting discussion here. I honestly just go 40-50% DR and try to practice my dodges, but it's still fascinating. In any case, it does seem disproportionally imbalanced that you can run any of these tanky builds in Apocalypse at all, doesn't it? Seeing you in the video feels a bit sluggish and easy. Especially given how Crystal Heart makes you slower.
The devs said they want all builds to be viable in apocalypse. They said they don’t want just damage builds to be meta in apocalypse. And to be fair you do have to do quite a bit of grinding to get to the point where you can effectively tank apocalypse. If you’re good at dodging then even a basic dps build will do you just fine
They also said they don't want you to tank more than 3-4 hits in apoc 😅@@DarkKiller-0
I agree that it seems imbalanced according to my subjective standard of what is balanced. Any player can be unkillable assuming they are flawless with their dodging, and in terms of balance, the lowered dps of tankier builds should be offset by less reliance on dodging for survivability. Now for both dps and tank builds I think there are points where the game ends up breaking. For instance, a dps build being able to melt a boss before the entirety of a boss' attacks or mechanics can be experienced or tank builds literally face tanking every hit from a boss with such minimal effort that the boss' attacks and mechanics don't matter. However, this is just my opinion. Some people find enjoyment out of making super strong builds and that's fine, different strokes for different folks and whatnot, but, I like the amount of attention required with builds with more required mobility and killable as they seem more engaging to me.
I often run a hybrid melee tank and dps or support build with challenger prime with various secondaries. I only have 40-50% base DR as well with The tankier portions focused on DR for elemental dmg and friendly fire. I like meleeing and do so in a curteous manner (ie not run in front of other people's line of fire, prioritizing enemies not being shot to avoid staggering others' targets, attacking same targets from the other side so I don't block others bullets, etc.) But, after getting downed by wanton merciless cannons, enigma shocks, and those freakin' firestorms I started to get fed up haha. So I took max kinship, booster ring, and hardcore metal band among other things and now charge into firestorms as the vortex effect glues me to the target (which is nice considering the short range of the knuckle weapon I use). Is this super strong build? Nope, niche and generalist. Do I have fun with it? Absolutely, it's engaging and the freedom of armor choice let's me have fun building a cool-looking cosmetic set.
looking forward to the build
up
What are your thoughts on the shield heart?
I'm not sure exactly how shield works, but I do know it's hp and stagger reduction.
I like to run shield, then run in and Regen with melee. It's essentially double HP for 20 seconds, which to me is huge.
I have a feeling shield doesn't benefit from armor but I'm not sure.
What do you think?
I would imagine to use the 20 sec heal over time vs the Crystal Heart is time to unload your weapon? I mean even watching your footage you basically only get off 1 or two shots from a sniper rifle. I imagine you can swap to a shotgun or long gun with low ammo just fine, but wanting to use other weapons the 20 sec heal gives you more time to unload a clip. Gives you more options to pick for damage?
This exactly. Factoring crystal heart absolutely needs 100% uptime every 8-9s is abysmal. You don't NEED to exploit resonating heart to still be ok, which gives you an entire 20s window to ress people, pop stims, unload a clip of merciless for the bleed vs regen bosses, etc. You also don't suffer 50% movement reduction which can get you killed standing in puddles, not making it to the next platform, being unable to make it to a friend in time. The trade off is pretty bad for more health regen that is completely pointless once you're capped. Resonating heart does work even after max HP.
Looking at some of these harts even more options for builds!
I wonder if resonating heart still works like this. It now reads "...any overhealed health to self is doubled..." so I wonder if it's taking into account minions or not.