Can you save money by using the Bluetti AC200p during on-peak rates and charging during off-peak?
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- I wanted to see if I could use my Bluetti AC200p to save money. I charged it during off peak rates and used it for the rest of the day on battery... which includes 5 hours of on-peak rates which are almost 4x more per KWH!
Items used in this video:
BLUETTI AC200P Portable Power Station, 2000Wh LiFePO4 Battery Backup w/ 6 2000W AC Outlets (4800W Peak), Solar Generator for Outdoor Camping, RV Travel, Home Use
Amazon: amzn.to/465gVa5
Bluetti website: shrsl.com/48u4l
AC WiFi Watt Meter, Plug-in US Socket Power Meter, Electricity bill statistics,temperature control,Backlit Large Color Display, Overload Protection,Voltage AMP Tester, Electrical Energy Monitor Timer
amzn.to/3wuMPQM
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Enjoyed the video. Ok, maybe not the results - but the video itself! 😏 Keep up the good work.
Agreed. It’s good info
Thank you! Will do!
That was truly an eye opener. Who would have thought youd pay twice as much in the end by using the Bluetti? Luckily your thermostat device turned it off and on at the times you wanted. Thank you for the informative video!
You're welcome and thanks for the comment!
Counter intuitive but good to know.
You also have to consider the cycles you are putting the batteries through.
Great video.
A++
Yes. With lifepo4 batteries having 4000+ cycles, you should have plenty of life per battery. Valid concern though. Thanks for the comment!
Interesting concept
Thanks for the comment!
It’s like you read my mind! I was recently informed our electricity will be billed this way starting next year, and I had exactly this idea. A thought experiment suggested I would only save pennies, which wouldn’t make the cost of the battery and the hassle of a more complex setup worth it. I failed to understand the AC/DC conversions would eat up kwh and end up costing me more, however. So thank you for doing the real experiment and saving me some time and money. If I do anything, it will be to set up storage batteries that I charge up with solar, then use those to charge a Bluetti. That will be worth it, regardless, to help me get through the increasing frequency of power outages that I worry are in my future. Thanks so much for the analysis you provide!
You're welcome! I'm glad you received some info from the video. Thanks for the comment.
Very nice 👌 👍
Thanks a lot for the comment!
Interesting 👍🏻
Glad you think so!
Thanks for talking about this topic. Peak hours are the killer. In our case (SRP - AZ) we just don't have a different tier, but we get penalized with on-peak hrs and even having solar is hard to play the system...
I think you open a good topic, I would love to see if you find a way to plug the power station directly to the grid instead of a couple of appliances, that way the wattage provided by the station would be widely distributed. I remember you did an interesting experiment with a grid tie inverter and your conclusions came out with actually saving some money. Hopefully we can do something similar with these midsize power stations. Thanks again for your videos
You're welcome! Maybe connecting the Bluetti to my furnace blower would give different results. Don't know. The AC inverter in the Bluetti is what kills the battery over time. Thanks for the comment.
Great video. I was considering doing this to be able to shift big loads like clothes dryer off-peak. But even though my electrical rates are a lot higher than yours, my delta between on and off peak is quite a bit less. So the math would work even worse for me after factoring in both batter loss and AC inverter loss.
Bummer... Thanks for sharing and the comment.
thanks
You're welcome!
I have a Pecron e2000lfp hooked to 600w of solar panels. I run my home office of it 24/7. I hardly ever have to plug it in ac to charge. Only on really cloudy rainy snow days. saving a ton just using it for that. And if we lose power I unplug it and run other things in the house with it. Big key here is you need solar to get that free electricity!
Exactly! Thanks for the comment.
If you get one of the newer Bluetti AC200L please repeat this test, as it seems to have a more efficient design 👍
I sure will. Thanks for the info and the comment.
yea best use will be as you said with solar panels,and what also could be good is using time relay to switch battery/station use on peak hours
That would be the best way to go. Thanks for the comment.
I have this Model and there is one other thing to factor in........The Overhead. It has this Vampire power drain when your not using it
That is one BIG thing I didn't mention. Thanks for the comment.
I’d be interested to see results with dc charging from solar and dc usage device only. Thanks!!! Does that eliminate conversion issue?
The Bluetti needs to step down from 48v to 12v so there will be convention loss. The loss won't be nearly as bad. Having solar would make all the difference. Thanks for the comment!
Can you Help me . What is The BEST 12 VOLT BATTERY CHARGER AND MAINTAINER .. I WAS CONSIDERING
" THE BATTERY TENDER " .. BUT I VALUE YOUR OPINION IN WHAT YIU WOULD RECOMMEND .. Thank You 👍
If you want to go with reliability then go with Victron. My guess is that unit will outlast your battery.
I've been thinking somewhat the same, but more towards only using my battery system during the high rate period, which, due to my work schedule, is also when I use the most electricity. so the battery system would run the house from 4pm-9pm, and recharge, probably, from 9PM to whenever.. (4p-9p every day is my peak rate. I'll have to dig a bit deeper to find the actual rates and if there're any more 'steps' in the rates. (after midnight or some such.) Haven't really dug into it.
First major power outage since I commissioned this system in January ended up being 52-56hrs long. Running everything but the minisplit, (freezer, refer, microwave, all house electronics and lighting, 50" tv and older computer. Oh, and Satlink, that's a bit of a power pig...) Ended up at 37% remaining. (20KWh pack, 24V 840AH LiFeP04, 3000w sungold inverter/charger)
It''s not set up to easily switch grid/battery manually, tho that'd be pretty easy to do, even on a timer setup. (Just drop the incoming 120V/30A grid to the unit, it transfers like a big UPS.) And another mini transfer switch to tie the minisplit into the Sungold during peak time. (It pulls max about 1300-1400W at 120, but, like it's running now, only pulls 200-500W when maintaining temp. Just don't want it on battery during power outages, to save juice, but it runs fine.) I think that in my situation, where most of my load is normally during 'peak' time, that the numbers would be much better. (Again, I'll pick apart a bill and see what the #s really are. I don't use much, so haven't really sweated it.)
Still adjusting the charging/float parameters for best usage, but I'm getting to the point that I could give this idea a try. My kill-a-watt isn't up to the total measurement needs, but I do have a couple other, beefier units I can hook up.
Even with the minisplit going heavy, I'd likely pull maybe 3-5KWh max during peak, more likely 2KWh. So that's replaceable in 3-5 hrs once the Sungold's back on the grid, only a 15-25% capacity pull on the battery pack, so pretty light. (So, even if power went out, I'd only be down to 75% at worst, and I'd drop the minisplit off line during a full outage.)
I'll dig into that some more. I'm thinking PG&E is about the same peak/off-peak ratio you have, so likely worthwhile. (Means I'll have to finally hook up that whole-house power monitor system, focusing, mainly, on the backup power panel ins and outs. (And the minisplit. Think the gadget has 4 or 8 channels, tho.)
The battery's rated for decades at that kind of charge/discharge levels.. Scary, these LiFes!
Anyway, Thanks for the goose to give this a try, and see how it works out. I have quite a different use case than you were testing, so I think it'll make up for the conversion losses. We'll have to see!
Take care, blessings, Stu the crazed battery junkie!
PG&E's off-peak / on-peak split is only roughly a 20% difference. It isn't worth load-shifting. There *IS* a special over-night EV tariff available, but all of PG&E's tariffs are designed to pretty much cost you the same thing. It's really hard to game the system, so to speak.
If you DIY it as you have, with PG&E it *IS* worth having a solar + battery + inverter setup where you have enough solar and battery for 24 hours of nominal operation, and basically going off-grid except for the battery charger for load-support on the occasion the battery gets too low.
This is what I intend to do eventually. Basically go off-grid (no transfer switch, no export, not grid-tie)... instead solar + battery -> inverter(s) -> home, and then use the grid only for the battery charger when necessary. I'm going to DIY it. A full 15-20 kW of solar, probably 60kWh worth of batteries, 3 x EG4 6000XP hybrid inverter solution.
Right now I have 5kW of grid-tied solar "officially", and unofficially I also have an additional 2 kW / 10kWh off-grid system pushing ~300W 24x7, with a battery charger for low-battery load-support.
-Matt
Thank you for sharing your situation and also the comment!
That would make sence but it takes twice as much energy to take in then it puts out right?
Not quite. It's probably about 15% each direction. Having the AC inverter on 24 hours a day really drains the battery as well.
Excellent! Solar saves but again you have to factor in the cost of the system! You only save in the long run? Also, the AC200P cost about $1500 when new but holds only 36 cents of your peak electricity cost! Thanks
You're welcome! Thanks for the comment.
The problem with the AC200P is that it has a high idle draw. A 2000w inverter is over kill for that mini fridge, yes you need a larger inverter for the coffee maker but that barely runs compared to the fridge. A small inverter would be more efficient for an intermittent low wattage draw like a small fridge.
I never charge my power stations off the grid unless there is a storm coming. So 99% of the time it's all solar charging.
Thanks for the info and the comment.
I have Bluetti AC200p and I know it uses too much power when just switched on. Pointless even charging with solar if the input is less than 25 watts. I would not buy one again, I would go with separate battery, charger and inverter. I do use it in my house sometimes for short periods to boost the maximum watt output of my house inverter instead of using grid power. Bluetti AC200p up to 2000 Watts plus up to 3000 Watts from my house inverter gives me up to 5000 watts output. I will normally recharge it from the house solar or from the grid if the price is very low, free or minus pricing which we get sometimes in the uk, at night when the wind is blowing a lot. I use a switch bot to turn on and off the Bluetti AC200p if charging at night so not to waste power.
Thanks for the info and the comment!
It costs an extra 6 cents a day to use the Bluetti. The next question is how much would the setup cost to install enough solar panels to charge the Bluetti reliably throughout the year? That would include sufficient panels to charge even in the winter and on cloudy days, as well as wiring, circuit breakers and the charge controller. If it all lasts 20 years those 6 cents a day will add up to $438. Is that enough to buy all the equipment? But that just gets you to break-even. You are still not saving anything. Furthermore, take that $438 and invest it in 20-year CD at 4% and you end up with $964. So there is an opportunity cost to installing that solar-generation equipment, not to mention the inevitable maintenance costs. The Bluetti likely won't last 20 years when cycling once a day. The cost of even the Bluetti can only be justified in terms of risk management or simple convenience when going off-grid mobile. The expense of a Bluetti can be justified for saving the contents of your freezer and frig if there are frequent power disruptions of sufficient duration to spoil cold food. If such a power outage occurs once in 15 years, then it is cheaper to just buy replacement food. If it happens every year and if the Bluetti can fill the gap and save your food, then having the Bluetti is worth it. Adding panels will always be a losing proposition unless the system is cheap and local weather conditions support high production year-round. Likely the most cost-effective system would be a 100 Ah battery, a small no-frills inverter big enough for needs and an inexpensive charger. That should be doable for $400 to $500 and would cover almost all power disruptions. But even that only makes economic sense if there are frequent power outages lasting long enough for a freezer or fridge to warm up. Where I live, there has only been one such episode in the last 30 years.
Thank you for all the great information and the comment!
It won't workout well with low power devices that need 24/7 access to power so have to have the power station inverter on. The same test done with higher power devices like the coffee maker + maybe cooking devices, toasters etc where you turn on the power station and turn it off again when done should produce much better results.
That said, once you take in to account the wear and tear on the batteries (cost per cycle) you might still only break even at best.
Also some power station apps allow you to turn on and off the AC inverter at specified times through the app, eg Dabbsson. This could help cut the inverter losses in half by only having the AC on 50% of time for a fridge/freezer as they cycle on and off anyway.
I wrote up the actual setup (not using a power station) in a separate post. A setup that I have actually used in the past and still use today (though now at 48V and a lot bigger).
The wear and tear on the battery is inconsequential... a LiFePO4 battery under these tiny loads will last pretty much forever... call it 20 years. A Victron charger run at roughly 50% will also last forever. But the inverter will have a limited lifespan... for a Victron inverter, probably 10 years or so, then require replacement.
But in a discrete solution replacing broken gear is actually fairly cheap, so usually you can discount equipment breakage. With a power station you are stuck with a very expensive replacement once something inside it breaks. With discrete gear you are not.
-Matt
That is true. Having the AC inverter on all day just kills the battery. Thanks for the comment.
@@OffGridBasement Maybe try this test. Turning fridge/freezer to MAX at start of off peak then back to NORMAL at peak and measure both usages with watt meter. compare how much extra you use in off peek and how much less is needed in peak.
Energy companies inflate usage/price in winter months.
Thanks for the comment.
of course you won't save money by using the battery/inverter during off peak times. the way to do it is to set it up to charge during off peak but also use the grid for the appliances during off peak. then only use the battery during on peak times. of course, the difference between on peak and off peak needs to be big enough for that to work also.
Thanks for the info and comment.
then in some places you save extra tax and delivery charges to. how about a cheaper home made power station?$$$$$bluetti $$$$$
All the conversions would still be there. Connecting to a few solar panels would be the way to go to save money. Thanks for the comment.