With many town, cities and even countries (Wales) introducing 20mph zones and the problems caused by so called 'green' emission controls strangulating engines will only further exasperate Diesel engine reliability.
Late to the party, but only just discovered your channel. What a find, a garage staffed by people with honesty and integrity. How very refreshing. I reference the engine block with the imperfection, that leaks oil, that you have found a fix for. If that doesn't work have a specialist welder fill the gap/hole, whatever. It doesn't need to be perfect (although it very well may be) as you can file the excess down.
I have the 2017 XE 20D AWD here in Los Angeles. I do long drives regularly, but I didn't know about the oil change rule of thumb and trusted the manual/dealer. I do everything myself, so I waited for their intervals to do the change... and then the turbo blew on it. Jaguar is ruthless about the change (charged me about $5500 just for the turbo). What's worse is that the dealer I went to is prone to misdiagnosis. They started off with harnesses, and then finally got to the turbo, but then the turbo going out lead to the DPF going down, and then the EGR system needing attention. I stopped taking it to the dealer, and eventually just did the repairs myself. It's not easy the first time around, but now I'm not afraid of the turbo, DPF, Injectors, EGR system, and most of the associated parts of the engine. I am looking into whether I'm going to do the timing chain myself, since unlike all of the others, as you can see, there's a ton of specialty tools that I'm not sure I can even procure. All in all, your analysis at the end is spot on. I wish I would have gone for the petrol originally. lesson learned, i suppose.
Enjoy your videos, I have a 2016 Diesel Evoque 77K and it’s been great. Problems I’ve had, two door actuators, rear camera water ingress and heat shield on dpf needed a tack weld to stop it rattling. I have a commute of 30 miles but fortunately most of it is dual carriageway. It tows a caravan so gets good long runs too. I’m in Cheshire and it’s looked after by a JLR indie. It’s due routine service soon and will discuss timing chain replacement. I had auto trans fluid changed at 50k and had Haldex serviced too.
Great vlog again, thank you. I totally agree I do a long journey once a week and change the oil every 5000. I haven't had an issues with the timing chain, currently 85000. I will be in contact regarding my leaking transmission PTU seal. FYI in USA there is a notification on this. TOPIx - SSM74140 - L550/L538 Oil leaking from interface of PTU and automatic transmission.
Very interesting. Mazda had the same problem with their diesel engines. Great engine but sold them to people poodling around town. So massive problems with the oil strainers and pick ups and carbon build up and dpfs clogging up and....so on. Great show thanks for posting.
Mazda did have a bulletproof engines for many years. But the diesel engine in Mazda small SUV and passenger cars now and some years back are really garbage. Just a shame.
Hi Josh, I have owned an 2016 Évoque, 2018 E Pace and a 2020 E Pace all 2l diesels. All were bought from new, we always drive at least 20 miles and the car is warmed up, speed max is usually 50-60 mph. We had a lot of problems with the Évoqué and the first E Pace with oil dilution, it wasn’t an issue with the second E Pace. I didn’t keep any past 3 years, since I didn’t fancy running them out of warranty !! Great trio of videos about the Ingenium engines. 👍🇬🇧😎
I have a Discovery Sport with a 2L Diesel Ingenium engine which is 7 years old with 74k miles. 18 months ago (60k mile) my JLR dealer said there was a rattle from the timing chain and they offered to fix it for £2700 (plus VAT). I took it to a local independent LR specialist who couldn't find a problem but suggested I change the oil/filter every 6 months. I have been changing the oil myself since it is quite easy and we have altered the usage so that it mostly does long journeys. I am hoping this regime will enable the engine to last a bit longer.
No codes, no lights, no noise. My car had been to the JLR dealer for a steering rack bolt recall after which they told me it needed a new timing chain. They said they had a video of their technician inspecting the car but when I requested a copy it turned out to be unavailable. That is why I sought a second opinion. @@jrvehicleservices
Oil dilution is a killer, stop start, switch it off, change oil and filter every 6000 miles, run it for 100 mile round trip once a month to regen the dpf naturally, and there's a half decent chance the issues won't arise as often.
Oil dilution on my Evoque. Said did little mileage in a year. That true because been working abroad but 90% of trips 60 miles one way, so can accept problem if only short trips but cannot see how low mileage but long trips makes a difference. Have driven very Audi Peugeot Toyota, BMW dielectric cars with similar trips no problem.
Never been a diesel fan due to the variety of issues they can have and agree with your they are not the best choice for everyone although this only seems to have come to light more recently. Fair point that not all Ingenium diesel have problems but the serious issues they can have doesn't make the odds look that favourable. Interesting that the petrol ingenium seems a better bet and it would certainly be my choice.
The ingenium engines are fine if they're used properly. Change the oil every 10-12k. I had an xf 2.0d from new and did 140k. We went to southern Italy 4 x times with 2 kids and fully loaded. Car never missed a beat, great car. 👍
My friend has done about 40 chains over 2 and a half years on Evoque discovery sports and a couple of jaguar XE good engine if they would stop putting crap chains on them you get a odd balance shaft on some an odd turbo gone but dealer definitely dont service then the book is stamped but the engine don't looked serviced on tear down
When the F Pace first came out there was no petrol option around 2 litres. That came along a few years later. Anyway, good advice long journeys only. No school runs.
I did have customer coming with a baby LR and said its was the 4 or 5th garage she was trying to get her car fixed. Motor was lacking power and all of the others gave up...... one or two did have a tune up put in and the engine got even worse........ Thought it was strange with a little smoke from this not so old car and in five minutes I did find a cooler hose with a hole. The fix was to put an exhaust pipe inside and test it....... It was flying afterwards....... The tune came in.
Good series. I bought a Petrol Discovery Sport three-years ago because we do modest annnual mileage & have been very pleased with it to date. They are much rarer than their diesel siblings. Previously we had had a Discovery 3 and then a 4. The latter was a lovely car albeit I was always worried about suffering a crankshaft failure. The car was low mileage and maintained by a non-franchise specialist. I was advised that oil changes more frequently than recommended by JLR was prudent but that if you have a car where the crankshaft is going to fail there is little or nothing more you can do to mitigate the potential problem.
LR Time from Germany recommend running 5W 40 in the TDV6 not 5W 30 as indicated by JLR because the 40w oil is recommended by Peugeot Citroen and Ford USA for this engine, JLR only use the 30 weight oil because it gives slightly better fuel consumption. They have a TDV6 2*7 that has done over 270,000kms without any issues.
@@stephensalt6787 - I watch that channel too. Their Discovery 3 has indeed been very reliable (albeit with great maintainence) However, they have rebuilt two Discovery 4 engines that have suffered with the crankshaft issue.
It's incredible how bad these JLR engines are, for all sorts of reasons. I've just sold an Audi A6 2.0 TDi which I drove for over 300,000 miles without the head ever being off and it still ran like new. The clutch and DMF lasted well over 200,000 miles, and it never had any oil leaks. The injectors and 3 of the 4 glow plugs were original, and the last MOT recorded a smoke reading of almost zero even though it didn't have a DPF due to its age. (0.09, limit 3.0). It was serviced around every 18.000 miles and I used premium diesel. If the Germans can make engines that good, why are Land Rovers so bad in so many ways? Needless to say, I bought another Audi diesel. So far it's done 30,000 miles in less than 18 months with no issues.
I work about half a mile from the Solihull factory and know a few people who work there now, most of whom say they wouldn't buy them even if they could afford it!
@@josephgittos3787 That car didn't have a DPF, Adblue or an automatic gearbox, however I also have a 2019 A6 Avant 40TDi which has all three and has just hit 78,000 miles trouble free. I have a friend who owns 4 JLR vehicles and freely admits that he gets more problems with them in the average year than I get in a lifetime of owning Audis.
I suppose by definition that the engines filmed have failed in some way as they are being repaired - but how many others out there live a long and happy life if serviced correctly - are we seeing the 1% or the 30% I wonder. Also madness that often the parts that fail have nothing to do with the normal operation of an ICE engine - ECR, AD Blue etc.
I just got one , non runner Copart . Looking good so far engine not seized no metal in oil . Battery goosed can’t read any codes just now . Oil lower turbo must be using it , oil dilution . Timing I recon looking for a cam shaft code . It’s needing a remap to sort all the problems like oil dilution able ect ect . Then there be fine 👍
Another very informative video Josh.. You are spot on with your advice, but sadly the car salesperson isn't going to risk loosing a sale by giving honest advice to the potential buyer. I would always advise people to do their own research and always reach conclusions in a dispassionate and realist way. All cars eventually develop faults which is good for business and if the garage is as good as yours, your customers will be happy.
I have a Disco Sport 2.0 Ingenium diesel. Bought it from Carbase, two years ago, with what turned out to be a cracked DPF. Had that replaced, eventually, at a cost of £2.6k. Now sixth gear doesn't stay engaged, drops out. Land Rover specialist says there are leaks from all sorts of places, including the EGR valve, bill including recon transmission, clutch and leak fixes, £6.9k. Always owned Honda CRVs until this Disco, never had any issues with the Hondas.
Great videos... you clearly are very good at what you do. It's refreshing to see a dedicated young, honest, professional technician who has so much pride in his work!! I'm looking at buying an XE. Fortunately, I do lots & lots of motorway miles as part of my job. If the chains have been done on the vehicle I potentially buy, would they be an uprated version less likely to stretch or is it just about oil dilution from not fully performed re-gen's, mainly, causing the problem?
Great videos, thanks. Have Land Rover made any attempts to address these issues like redesigning the drone chain? I currently have a 2012 Freelander 2 that I would like to upgrade but now I'm thinking just keep it ...
I own a evoque and it demands a oil change every 6 months the service due comes up about every 6 months but just get a good local garage to do oil and filter change and sometimes take it to LR for oil/filter change to get it on the records. I owned a Merc with 30,000 miles on the clock and timing chain stretched and I had. it serviced ever year and that was a petrol 1.8 kompressor ,luckily easy job for specialist and cost me £600 many many years ago.
ive got a 2.0d fpace with 60k showing had it for 3yrs no issues going to start chaning transmissiion fluid just pulling sump plug and replacing what comes out thats all nothing else but im wondering is it ok to add say 500mil of a trans cleaning additive in there for 6months then do same again maybe change filter and pan then ?? my logic is that if i do this process twice a year with my engine oil change shouldnt be any trans issues later on , like it needing complete fush and what not at 100k and above .
The old engine based on the 2.0 hdi was bullet proof. My Xsara 2.0 did 400,000 miles . My neighbours freelander with the old engine has cleared 200,000 no problem. As a small garage we turn away the new engine , simply because of parts availability and locking up ramps. Often the cost of repair is far beyond the cost of the vehicle......
The oil on the petrol engine stays cleaner for longer. I changed the oil every 5000 miles irrespective of driving distances and that’s on any car. Pays dividends.
I have an XF 2 litre diesel on a 65 plate from new it has 130 k on the clock with services at 21k intervals. It has spent most of its life at 2k of revs on the motorway, original clutch and chain is still dead quiet. As has been said they hate taxi work
Yes, definitely avoid Land Rover Ingenium diesel engines. Especially when buying second hand when previous owners probably didn’t change oil every few thousand miles; they’re an expensive time bomb waiting to go off!
I looked at an 2.0 diesel F Pace yesterday 120,000 km but no visible service history since 35,000. Worried about lack of services. Although on oil change you could be doing it at home so not sure how to prove that?
@@hopandsolo Any service done at a Land Rover dealer can be checked on line. Maybe done at independents or at home, but they’d usually have kept receipts to prove it.
They do have their of problems but are on average reliable. The 1AD and 2AD had the head cracking and gasket issues. The 1kd has its piston breaking issues and oil dilution in 1kd and 2gd though the oil dilution is manageable in shorter oil drain interval.
Actually look at the Euro6 diesels & you’ll find engine failures too. Every manufacturer has lengthened their service intervals. Combine this with all the emissions stuff & they’re failing like any other.
Your very brave working on Ingeniums. They are just as bad as all the heart ache the K1.8 series caused all their owners 😊 Basically change Oil interval to 5k miles due to oil dilution on Ingeniums and any modern engine.
Brilliant video, sadly, they are now just throw away cars compared with the older JLR engines. Diesels, due to the emissions constraints are no longer 'fit for purpose' for city/stop start driving. DPF/EGR delete?
Great Video mate, As a new Ingenium engine owner its eye opening. Thankfully I'm able to do the Oil Changes myself between service intervals fairly easily so that and longer runs at weekends should help! Quick question, My thermostat seems to have packed up - struggles to get above quarter way on Dual carriageways/M5. Recently I'm also getting the code P0401-00, Are these related due to not being able to complete the EGR clean cycle do you think? No Soot in exhaust... :)
thank you i have a 17 plate 2 wheel drive evoque ,no issues atm i change the oil and filter myself twice a year ,only short trips ,i use a pump to remove the oil ,is this enough to help with the faults you are seeing
These are only just a tad worse than most other land rover engines ,,, they have not had an engine worthy of any note since the 200tdi ,,, it worked and kept working ,, rest of the car was rubbish , but the engines were not actually that bad ,,, but failure to meet emissions killed it off ,,, emissions have killed almost all diesels these days and a lot of petrols too ,,, long gone are the 400k mercs and 200k nissans of old. so much for progress .
Great video - I have had a Disco Sport diesel from new with 70k miles - it's been a great workhorse with no significant issues. The LR stated service interval is 21k which is just bonkers! I get it serviced every year at 10k miles max which is probably why I have avoided issues. Would you advise a precautionary timing chain change at any point?
When you look at the under bonnet of these engines it looks like a right bodge of a design. Almost as if the designers are adding bits as they go along. For such an expensive motor not a very good design. Needs a lot of engineering design and realisability put in from the start not afterwards.
is the broken egr pipe the common issue in this engine? i got mine 2 month ago and already have a broken pipe of egr ( G4D3-9F468-AB )? and do you know what is the difference between 2016 204dtd and 2020 dtd. are the new engines part are compatible with old one? thank you. appreciate your videos and advice.
Thanks for all these videos. I was just about to trade my 2018 VW Passat (great car, not one thing has went wrong) for a 2020 Jag XE 2.0 diesel. These videos have helped put me right, what an absolute dogshit brand.
I need mine doing now on my XF but no one wants to attempt to change the timing chain in my area, its only done 98000miles, I personally have only done 7000 in ten months since owning the car, I have looked at more videos than i care to mention on changing it, i have done BM's and Audi's but these things are truley scarey, balance shafts, cracked DPF's, leaking EGR coolers, is there actually anything good about these engines? or am i missing something, how much do you charge to do the chain etc? thats more interesting, when can you fit me in? lol
The engines are reliable as long as you watch out for the plastic for the cooling system and the air system, which feeds air and cooling into the engine. And change the engine oil once a year in cold weather or twice a year in a hot climate regardless of how little you drive it. But if you put lots of thousands of miles every year on that engine pls do so every 5000 miles. It's a luxury car, so if you can not afford the maintenance, please buy a toyota
No. I think they have been designed to work in tandem with combustion temperature control/reduction which comes from the EGR (engine gas recirculation). You would have to introduce water-methanol injection then to achieve that. DPF and AdBlue removal would require serious software rewrite to enable proper use. Also, such vehicle would be illegal for road use (and for most racing tracks) as the emissions would be too high. You could use water-methanol injection with trace amount of ethlyamine buffered with EDTA and have high flow DPF and SCR. You could even see if you can have specially remade fuel pump and have direct injection of AdBlue and have dual AdBlue treatment while still reaping the benefits of combustion temperature control, NOx reduction and safe emissions with good horse power from the engine. But then again... You could do all that with the EGR as well :) EGR, DPF and SCR (AdBlue) are not the problem. Material quality and factory quality controls are the key. JLR improved quality control (so they say) with the facelift models.
Great video, I’ve got a jaguar XE petrol 2017. 49000 miles I want to changed oil filter my self euro car parts told me to use 5 w30 engine oil but main dealers told me to use 0w20 but difficult to get that grade of oil in Castro. What do you recommend I should use any help would be appreciated
Are the majority of the issues with the Diesel engine? You talk about the Ingenium engine, but don’t specify if you are talking about the 2L or 3L engine and if it is the diesel or petrol engines.
Yes, this, cna we get an answer for this. I suspect it is the 2.0L - have not heard much about the 3.0L but still be good to get an answer from a mechanic dealing wit these engines regularly
Hi josh wondered if u could help me ive had a top chain go on mine but my crank pully is to rusty to see the timing mark is there any other way to time the crank thanks
Ive took injector one out and and with the tool in place the piston is up but pump is out if i get pump timing mark to right mark piston is down this is why i was struggling thanks
Ive got a jag xe diesel 2.0l lovely car But when i start it sometimes not all but mostly it sounds like a tractor. Does this mean my timing change needs doing ?
@jrvehicleservices Sounds rattley not all the time though but drives lovely no issue .on tick over sometimes sounds rough .Good luck with your channel as a fellow youtuber its hard work so good luck mate .love my car but the noise worries me about 2k to do the chain i guess
@jrvehicleservices May be us a video on how to tell if your chain needs redoing on these cars show the sound on a newly computer one and the sound on one that needs doing along with any other tips for a novice like me to keep eye on things . Many thanks and good luck great channel im still watching your videos right now 🤣🤣👍👊
These Ingenium engines are overcomplicated and it seems to me to be poorly designed compared to other engines. It compares directly to the Ford 2.0 wet belt diesel engine which had only two real issues. A faulty batch of injectors supplied by Continental [formerly Siemens VDO] and, of course, the wet belt. Assuming that they have now sorted both issues, which they do claim, the Ford would seem to be a far superior engine. Then there’s the VAG diesel and even Renault/Nissan, although Renault seems to be phasing diesel cars out now, but the 1.5 litre K9 diesel is a fantastic engine with well over 10 million examples manufactured. Unless someone knows different for sure?
To be fair to the manufacturers, most of the complications come directly from having to meet the ever stricter emissions laws. So it's very unfair to compare an engine that has all that to one built when it wasn't required. Thankfully a small outbreak of common sense overcame the EU regulators for EU7, and they dropped all the pre-start warmup nonsense they were thinking of. Where the manufacturers then shoot themselves in the foot is by specifying ludicrously long service intervals that are aimed purely at getting low lease values from new, along with company car business with minimal servicing costs, knowing that most engines will survive the initial 3 year in warranty period, pushing the longevity issues to the 2nd hand market. Engine oil in an EU6 diesel has to work ridiculously hard, and to expect it to last 21,000 miles or 2 years is in reality in very few peoples (or the planets) interest.
This is indeed my impressions so far - there is virtually no bad news about the 6-cylinder Ingenium diesels that I can find on the internet. This gives me more confidence to consider the Defender D250 or D300 as a future vehicle purchase.
Is the Jag 3.0 diesel more reliable than the Ingenium? I have an 18 year old 2.7 with 190,000 miles and I'm tempted to look at an XF 3.0 diesel for my next car.
Depending on the age range, the 3 litre is by far the better engine. Only issues with the older ones are crankshafts snapping. The throttle bodies also stick and prevent DPF regeneration so that can be something which needs to be checked and replaced (few hundred quid)
Nothing wrong with the engine. Everything wrong with the manufacture’s recommendation on service intervals and lack of information given to buyers on correct use maybe not being suitable for your needs.
Well over 1.5 million of these engines have been produced here in the UK since the new factory opened in 2015. All modern engines are designed to be as light as possible, have as little friction as possible, and to reduce rotating masses to ensure good fuel economy and meet politically driven emissions figures. As many manufacturers have found, despite development and testing, areas of weakness can show up in use in some cases. The ingenium diesel has uprated timing components fitted from 2019 on and the engine continues to be in widespread use across the whole range of JLR products. I've run an early one for a few years now, and even took out an engine warranty because I was daft enough at the time to take too much notice of what was being said online. Guess what - no timing chain issues, no balancer shaft issues, fantastic fuel economy. Never used for a lot of short runs from cold, and always use premium diesel and 10,000 mile oil change intervals. Long may it continue.
This video summarises this perfectly. Inherently not bad engines, just multiple factors that compound things. Euro 6 emissions equipment +City driving +Crazy high service intervals I have a high mileage SDV6 Discovery 4 which gets a bad wrap for the same reason. Oil change is cheaper than an engine. "Toyota reliability" comes at the cost in terms of performance and comfort.
What ever happened to the good old utilitarian philosophy of Land Rovers. I suppose there's a price to pay for having an increasing amount of pouncy gadgets.
These engines are crap. So many things go wrong with them , and this is why so many people buy a Jaguar or Landrover and plaster it all over RUclips., with issies abiut there cars. Dont see Audi Vw Or Bmw diesels nearly as much in youtube as this ingenium crap. No better then the crap British Leyland made in the 80s .
Marcus I have to agree. I would never waste my money on any JLR product, new or used. Anyone thinking about one of these JLR money pits just buy a Lexus or a Toyota. The hybrids are ace - mines a 2019 RAV4. Keep it Toyota serviced and it has a 10 year warranty.
Excellent video. 100% agree modern diesels need a good run. Short stop start school runs just clog them up.
With many town, cities and even countries (Wales) introducing 20mph zones and the problems caused by so called 'green' emission controls strangulating engines will only further exasperate Diesel engine reliability.
Late to the party, but only just discovered your channel. What a find, a garage staffed by people with honesty and integrity. How very refreshing.
I reference the engine block with the imperfection, that leaks oil, that you have found a fix for. If that doesn't work have a specialist welder fill the gap/hole, whatever. It doesn't need to be perfect (although it very well may be) as you can file the excess down.
I have the 2017 XE 20D AWD here in Los Angeles. I do long drives regularly, but I didn't know about the oil change rule of thumb and trusted the manual/dealer. I do everything myself, so I waited for their intervals to do the change... and then the turbo blew on it. Jaguar is ruthless about the change (charged me about $5500 just for the turbo). What's worse is that the dealer I went to is prone to misdiagnosis. They started off with harnesses, and then finally got to the turbo, but then the turbo going out lead to the DPF going down, and then the EGR system needing attention.
I stopped taking it to the dealer, and eventually just did the repairs myself. It's not easy the first time around, but now I'm not afraid of the turbo, DPF, Injectors, EGR system, and most of the associated parts of the engine.
I am looking into whether I'm going to do the timing chain myself, since unlike all of the others, as you can see, there's a ton of specialty tools that I'm not sure I can even procure.
All in all, your analysis at the end is spot on. I wish I would have gone for the petrol originally. lesson learned, i suppose.
Great video, totally agree about diesel not suited for short journeys. Keep up the good work guys.
Enjoy your videos, I have a 2016 Diesel Evoque 77K and it’s been great. Problems I’ve had, two door actuators, rear camera water ingress and heat shield on dpf needed a tack weld to stop it rattling. I have a commute of 30 miles but fortunately most of it is dual carriageway. It tows a caravan so gets good long runs too. I’m in Cheshire and it’s looked after by a JLR indie. It’s due routine service soon and will discuss timing chain replacement. I had auto trans fluid changed at 50k and had Haldex serviced too.
Keep up the great work, fantastic & honest advice.
Great vlog again, thank you. I totally agree I do a long journey once a week and change the oil every 5000. I haven't had an issues with the timing chain, currently 85000. I will be in contact regarding my leaking transmission PTU seal. FYI in USA there is a notification on this. TOPIx - SSM74140 - L550/L538 Oil leaking from interface of PTU and automatic transmission.
Very interesting. Mazda had the same problem with their diesel engines. Great engine but sold them to people poodling around town. So massive problems with the oil strainers and pick ups and carbon build up and dpfs clogging up and....so on. Great show thanks for posting.
Mazda did have a bulletproof engines for many years. But the diesel engine in Mazda small SUV and passenger cars now and some years back are really garbage. Just a shame.
Great video. Keep up the good work.
Hi Josh, I have owned an 2016 Évoque, 2018 E Pace and a 2020 E Pace all 2l diesels. All were bought from new, we always drive at least 20 miles and the car is warmed up, speed max is usually 50-60 mph. We had a lot of problems with the Évoqué and the first E Pace with oil dilution, it wasn’t an issue with the second E Pace. I didn’t keep any past 3 years, since I didn’t fancy running them out of warranty !! Great trio of videos about the Ingenium engines. 👍🇬🇧😎
I have a Discovery Sport with a 2L Diesel Ingenium engine which is 7 years old with 74k miles. 18 months ago (60k mile) my JLR dealer said there was a rattle from the timing chain and they offered to fix it for £2700 (plus VAT). I took it to a local independent LR specialist who couldn't find a problem but suggested I change the oil/filter every 6 months. I have been changing the oil myself since it is quite easy and we have altered the usage so that it mostly does long journeys. I am hoping this regime will enable the engine to last a bit longer.
Was there any codes?
No codes, no lights, no noise. My car had been to the JLR dealer for a steering rack bolt recall after which they told me it needed a new timing chain. They said they had a video of their technician inspecting the car but when I requested a copy it turned out to be unavailable. That is why I sought a second opinion. @@jrvehicleservices
@@grahamwoodier5066 Always avoid main dealers (especially JLR), they will just cheat lie and rob you.
@@blackvulcan100and didn't change my oil but charged me 350
Oil dilution is a killer, stop start, switch it off, change oil and filter every 6000 miles, run it for 100 mile round trip once a month to regen the dpf naturally, and there's a half decent chance the issues won't arise as often.
Oil dilution on my Evoque. Said did little mileage in a year. That true because been working abroad but 90% of trips 60 miles one way, so can accept problem if only short trips but cannot see how low mileage but long trips makes a difference. Have driven very Audi Peugeot Toyota, BMW dielectric cars with similar trips no problem.
Never been a diesel fan due to the variety of issues they can have and agree with your they are not the best choice for everyone although this only seems to have come to light more recently. Fair point that not all Ingenium diesel have problems but the serious issues they can have doesn't make the odds look that favourable. Interesting that the petrol ingenium seems a better bet and it would certainly be my choice.
Great video series! Would love to see the same videos for the 4.4 SDV8. 😊
Yeah would love to see it and 3,6 as well.
I was keen on the baby LR..... but not any more.
The TDV8 is (was) a superb engine. There have been some failures though. Mostly due to the silly long oil change intervals
The ingenium engines are fine if they're used properly. Change the oil every 10-12k. I had an xf 2.0d from new and did 140k. We went to southern Italy 4 x times with 2 kids and fully loaded. Car never missed a beat, great car. 👍
My friend has done about 40 chains over 2 and a half years on Evoque discovery sports and a couple of jaguar XE good engine if they would stop putting crap chains on them you get a odd balance shaft on some an odd turbo gone but dealer definitely dont service then the book is stamped but the engine don't looked serviced on tear down
When the F Pace first came out there was no petrol option around 2 litres. That came along a few years later. Anyway, good advice long journeys only. No school runs.
Good to see a lad who knows his job but you've really put me of these engines.😎
I did have customer coming with a baby LR and said its was the 4 or 5th garage she was trying to get her car fixed. Motor was lacking power and all of the others gave up...... one or two did have a tune up put in and the engine got even worse........ Thought it was strange with a little smoke from this not so old car and in five minutes I did find a cooler hose with a hole. The fix was to put an exhaust pipe inside and test it....... It was flying afterwards....... The tune came in.
Good series. I bought a Petrol Discovery Sport three-years ago because we do modest annnual mileage & have been very pleased with it to date. They are much rarer than their diesel siblings. Previously we had had a Discovery 3 and then a 4. The latter was a lovely car albeit I was always worried about suffering a crankshaft failure. The car was low mileage and maintained by a non-franchise specialist. I was advised that oil changes more frequently than recommended by JLR was prudent but that if you have a car where the crankshaft is going to fail there is little or nothing more you can do to mitigate the potential problem.
LR Time from Germany recommend running 5W 40 in the TDV6 not 5W 30 as indicated by JLR because the 40w oil is recommended by Peugeot Citroen and Ford USA for this engine, JLR only use the 30 weight oil because it gives slightly better fuel consumption. They have a TDV6 2*7 that has done over 270,000kms without any issues.
@@stephensalt6787 - I watch that channel too. Their Discovery 3 has indeed been very reliable (albeit with great maintainence) However, they have rebuilt two Discovery 4 engines that have suffered with the crankshaft issue.
It's incredible how bad these JLR engines are, for all sorts of reasons. I've just sold an Audi A6 2.0 TDi which I drove for over 300,000 miles without the head ever being off and it still ran like new. The clutch and DMF lasted well over 200,000 miles, and it never had any oil leaks. The injectors and 3 of the 4 glow plugs were original, and the last MOT recorded a smoke reading of almost zero even though it didn't have a DPF due to its age. (0.09, limit 3.0). It was serviced around every 18.000 miles and I used premium diesel. If the Germans can make engines that good, why are Land Rovers so bad in so many ways? Needless to say, I bought another Audi diesel. So far it's done 30,000 miles in less than 18 months with no issues.
I work about half a mile from the Solihull factory and know a few people who work there now, most of whom say they wouldn't buy them even if they could afford it!
And then I know someone who owned an Audi that had DPF problems or adblue problems so not just LR also dont the VW group auto gear box have problems.
@@josephgittos3787 That car didn't have a DPF, Adblue or an automatic gearbox, however I also have a 2019 A6 Avant 40TDi which has all three and has just hit 78,000 miles trouble free. I have a friend who owns 4 JLR vehicles and freely admits that he gets more problems with them in the average year than I get in a lifetime of owning Audis.
I suppose by definition that the engines filmed have failed in some way as they are being repaired - but how many others out there live a long and happy life if serviced correctly - are we seeing the 1% or the 30% I wonder. Also madness that often the parts that fail have nothing to do with the normal operation of an ICE engine - ECR, AD Blue etc.
I just got one , non runner Copart . Looking good so far engine not seized no metal in oil . Battery goosed can’t read any codes just now . Oil lower turbo must be using it , oil dilution . Timing I recon looking for a cam shaft code . It’s needing a remap to sort all the problems like oil dilution able ect ect . Then there be fine 👍
Another very informative video Josh.. You are spot on with your advice, but sadly the car salesperson isn't going to risk loosing a sale by giving honest advice to the potential buyer. I would always advise people to do their own research and always reach conclusions in a dispassionate and realist way. All cars eventually develop faults which is good for business and if the garage is as good as yours, your customers will be happy.
Great video. Please keep them coming in the bloody engines as I’m being told ‘it’s not a common fault’ 😬
I have a Disco Sport 2.0 Ingenium diesel. Bought it from Carbase, two years ago, with what turned out to be a cracked DPF. Had that replaced, eventually, at a cost of £2.6k. Now sixth gear doesn't stay engaged, drops out. Land Rover specialist says there are leaks from all sorts of places, including the EGR valve, bill including recon transmission, clutch and leak fixes, £6.9k. Always owned Honda CRVs until this Disco, never had any issues with the Hondas.
Great videos... you clearly are very good at what you do. It's refreshing to see a dedicated young, honest, professional technician who has so much pride in his work!! I'm looking at buying an XE. Fortunately, I do lots & lots of motorway miles as part of my job. If the chains have been done on the vehicle I potentially buy, would they be an uprated version less likely to stretch or is it just about oil dilution from not fully performed re-gen's, mainly, causing the problem?
Had a one with 30k on it , cylinder liner had dropped on 1 cylinder , smashed piston , head , game over for that engine at 30k !!
Great videos, thanks.
Have Land Rover made any attempts to address these issues like redesigning the drone chain? I currently have a 2012 Freelander 2 that I would like to upgrade but now I'm thinking just keep it ...
I own a evoque and it demands a oil change every 6 months the service due comes up about every 6 months but just get a good local garage to do oil and filter change and sometimes take it to LR for oil/filter change to get it on the records. I owned a Merc with 30,000 miles on the clock and timing chain stretched and I had. it serviced ever year and that was a petrol 1.8 kompressor ,luckily easy job for specialist and cost me £600 many many years ago.
Kids round here are often heard to say ,,,, watch where you step , that dogs just done a big Ingenium .
ive got a 2.0d fpace with 60k showing had it for 3yrs no issues going to start chaning transmissiion fluid just pulling sump plug and replacing what comes out thats all nothing else but im wondering is it ok to add say 500mil of a trans cleaning additive in there for 6months then do same again maybe change filter and pan then ?? my logic is that if i do this process twice a year with my engine oil change shouldnt be any trans issues later on , like it needing complete fush and what not at 100k and above .
Am I glad I bought the 2.2D now? 👍
That is a very good engine. Far better than this pile of
The old engine based on the 2.0 hdi was bullet proof. My Xsara 2.0 did 400,000 miles . My neighbours freelander with the old engine has cleared 200,000 no problem. As a small garage we turn away the new engine , simply because of parts availability and locking up ramps. Often the cost of repair is far beyond the cost of the vehicle......
The oil on the petrol engine stays cleaner for longer. I changed the oil every 5000 miles irrespective of driving distances and that’s on any car. Pays dividends.
I have an XF 2 litre diesel on a 65 plate from new it has 130 k on the clock with services at 21k intervals. It has spent most of its life at 2k of revs on the motorway, original clutch and chain is still dead quiet. As has been said they hate taxi work
some great advice so for me its the 2.2 diesel or the petrol cheers
Yes, definitely avoid Land Rover Ingenium diesel engines. Especially when buying second hand when previous owners probably didn’t change oil every few thousand miles; they’re an expensive time bomb waiting to go off!
I looked at an 2.0 diesel F Pace yesterday 120,000 km but no visible service history since 35,000. Worried about lack of services. Although on oil change you could be doing it at home so not sure how to prove that?
@@hopandsolo Any service done at a Land Rover dealer can be checked on line. Maybe done at independents or at home, but they’d usually have kept receipts to prove it.
Avoid?
The word “Plague” comes to mind !
I wonder why the Toyota D4d engines never had any of these problems? 😂
Well those that were used for short journeys only did. Injectors, EGRs and flywheel problems are well documented.
They do have their of problems but are on average reliable. The 1AD and 2AD had the head cracking and gasket issues. The 1kd has its piston breaking issues and oil dilution in 1kd and 2gd though the oil dilution is manageable in shorter oil drain interval.
Actually look at the Euro6 diesels & you’ll find engine failures too. Every manufacturer has lengthened their service intervals. Combine this with all the emissions stuff & they’re failing like any other.
I think oil is really important peoples don't understand nothing about it my 2.0 18 plate currently 146000 miles on taxi lol
Your very brave working on Ingeniums.
They are just as bad as all the heart ache the K1.8 series caused all their owners 😊
Basically change Oil interval to 5k miles due to oil dilution on Ingeniums and any modern engine.
I've a 2013 vw Tiguan R-Line and in 11 years of ownership it's had all 4 springs replaced that's it. It gets it's service when due..
I also have a Tiguan and I wouldn't worry about any of these issues. It is a Euro 5 though not a 6. The 6s have a few more issues.
@@jrvehicleservices Thank you for your reply buddy. Fingers crossed it continues stays trouble free lol. 🍀🍀👍
Good video josh, very interesting
Glad you enjoyed it
Would you show an oil change doing the syphon tube method for do it at home thanks, I have the petrol xe❤
Brilliant video, sadly, they are now just throw away cars compared with the older JLR engines.
Diesels, due to the emissions constraints are no longer 'fit for purpose' for city/stop start driving.
DPF/EGR delete?
Discovery sport 2.0 hdi , any 0w/30 oil ? Or does it need a specific brand . The local garage I used put Castrol 0w/30 in it .
Great Video mate, As a new Ingenium engine owner its eye opening. Thankfully I'm able to do the Oil Changes myself between service intervals fairly easily so that and longer runs at weekends should help! Quick question, My thermostat seems to have packed up - struggles to get above quarter way on Dual carriageways/M5. Recently I'm also getting the code P0401-00, Are these related due to not being able to complete the EGR clean cycle do you think? No Soot in exhaust... :)
Should it differentiate 4 cylinder v 6 cylinder and petrol v diesel ?.
Any idea when they revised the petrol water pump was revised ?
thank you i have a 17 plate 2 wheel drive evoque ,no issues atm i change the oil and filter myself twice a year ,only short trips ,i use a pump to remove the oil ,is this enough to help with the faults you are seeing
So how reliable are these diesel engines with the DPF & EGR removed and mapped out? Problem solved, or still likely to have issues?
Gimme an AJ16 any day. Absolutely bulletproof engines. And I stand by that.
If you disagree, discuss
These are only just a tad worse than most other land rover engines ,,, they have not had an engine worthy of any note since the 200tdi ,,, it worked and kept working ,, rest of the car was rubbish , but the engines were not actually that bad ,,, but failure to meet emissions killed it off ,,, emissions have killed almost all diesels these days and a lot of petrols too ,,, long gone are the 400k mercs and 200k nissans of old. so much for progress .
Thanks! Oh and is the 2.2 Pug diesel the only motor worth considering?
Sure
Great bit at the end - Is that REALLY your one?!
Great video - I have had a Disco Sport diesel from new with 70k miles - it's been a great workhorse with no significant issues. The LR stated service interval is 21k which is just bonkers! I get it serviced every year at 10k miles max which is probably why I have avoided issues. Would you advise a precautionary timing chain change at any point?
Only if it is rattling!
Have JLR addressed these issues in their latest models?
Excellent video! Are you against chiptuning the P200? And what do you think about an EGR delete? Cheers!
would you recomend flushing engine with something before every oil change ? also is it ok to use a cat cleaner adative once a year ?
How do i know if my land rover discovery 180ds 2.0 is an ingenium? Are they all ingenium?
When you look at the under bonnet of these engines it looks like a right bodge of a design. Almost as if the designers are adding bits as they go along. For such an expensive motor not a very good design. Needs a lot of engineering design and realisability put in from the start not afterwards.
is the broken egr pipe the common issue in this engine? i got mine 2 month ago and already have a broken pipe of egr ( G4D3-9F468-AB )? and do you know what is the difference between 2016 204dtd and 2020 dtd. are the new engines part are compatible with old one? thank you. appreciate your videos and advice.
Hi do you know if you bought a new engine for one today if it will have had most of the upgrades completed that the early engines had? Thanks
I am buying a 2l 2016 discovery sport, 81k miles FSH and just had the timing chain changed. Should be ok for the next 3 years ?
So mate, where was the coolant leaking from? Is it from the intercharge cooler? Does it needs replacing?
Help needed. Thnx
I have a 2016 F pace 2.0 diesel at 53000 miles , just waiting for it to die , but how can I prevent this ??
Thanks for all these videos. I was just about to trade my 2018 VW Passat (great car, not one thing has went wrong) for a 2020 Jag XE 2.0 diesel. These videos have helped put me right, what an absolute dogshit brand.
I need mine doing now on my XF but no one wants to attempt to change the timing chain in my area, its only done 98000miles, I personally have only done 7000 in ten months since owning the car, I have looked at more videos than i care to mention on changing it, i have done BM's and Audi's but these things are truley scarey, balance shafts, cracked DPF's, leaking EGR coolers, is there actually anything good about these engines? or am i missing something, how much do you charge to do the chain etc? thats more interesting, when can you fit me in? lol
The 20l petrol ingenium engine is the most reliable.
The engines are reliable as long as you watch out for the plastic for the cooling system and the air system, which feeds air and cooling into the engine. And change the engine oil once a year in cold weather or twice a year in a hot climate regardless of how little you drive it. But if you put lots of thousands of miles every year on that engine pls do so every 5000 miles.
It's a luxury car, so if you can not afford the maintenance, please buy a toyota
Yes.
Have JLR updated the timming chain kit to prevent failure?
Yes. In 2019 there was a new heavier timing setup introduced.
Have you fixed your car yet? Is there a video?
And on that bombshell.....
Hi just a question, do you think these engines would be great if they had the EGR, DPF and ADBlue all removed ?
No. I think they have been designed to work in tandem with combustion temperature control/reduction which comes from the EGR (engine gas recirculation). You would have to introduce water-methanol injection then to achieve that. DPF and AdBlue removal would require serious software rewrite to enable proper use. Also, such vehicle would be illegal for road use (and for most racing tracks) as the emissions would be too high.
You could use water-methanol injection with trace amount of ethlyamine buffered with EDTA and have high flow DPF and SCR. You could even see if you can have specially remade fuel pump and have direct injection of AdBlue and have dual AdBlue treatment while still reaping the benefits of combustion temperature control, NOx reduction and safe emissions with good horse power from the engine.
But then again... You could do all that with the EGR as well :)
EGR, DPF and SCR (AdBlue) are not the problem.
Material quality and factory quality controls are the key.
JLR improved quality control (so they say) with the facelift models.
Great video, I’ve got a jaguar XE petrol 2017. 49000 miles I want to changed oil filter my self euro car parts told me to use 5 w30 engine oil but main dealers told me to use 0w20 but difficult to get that grade of oil in Castro. What do you recommend I should use any help would be appreciated
Definitely 0W20. Has to meet JLR.03.5006 spec. Used to be Castrol only but I believe others do it now.
Cars to buy with a warranty. There’s a good reason second hand prices are low…..
Are the majority of the issues with the Diesel engine? You talk about the Ingenium engine, but don’t specify if you are talking about the 2L or 3L engine and if it is the diesel or petrol engines.
Yes, this, cna we get an answer for this.
I suspect it is the 2.0L - have not heard much about the 3.0L but still be good to get an answer from a mechanic dealing wit these engines regularly
Sorry 2.0 Diesel.
I think I mentioned in the previous video we haven't seen any 6 cyl yet other than for servicing.
I'll update the descriptions.
Hi josh wondered if u could help me ive had a top chain go on mine but my crank pully is to rusty to see the timing mark is there any other way to time the crank thanks
The proper tool slots into the crank and then you don't need the mark!
Ok thanks i have the proper tool but when i put it in the pump timing seems to 180° out thanks for getting back to me
@lelcox569 are you sure the crank isn't out?
The tool fits multiple ways which us a pain!
Ive took injector one out and and with the tool in place the piston is up but pump is out if i get pump timing mark to right mark piston is down this is why i was struggling thanks
Ive got a jag xe diesel 2.0l lovely car But when i start it sometimes not all but mostly it sounds like a tractor. Does this mean my timing change needs doing ?
Usually! Depends on the noise it is making
@jrvehicleservices
Sounds rattley not all the time though but drives lovely no issue .on tick over sometimes sounds rough .Good luck with your channel as a fellow youtuber its hard work so good luck mate .love my car but the noise worries me about 2k to do the chain i guess
@@brickrightbuildinglandscaping a little bit cheaper on the XEs as the engine is the other way
@jrvehicleservices
May be us a video on how to tell if your chain needs redoing on these cars show the sound on a newly computer one and the sound on one that needs doing along with any other tips for a novice like me to keep eye on things .
Many thanks and good luck great channel im still watching your videos right now 🤣🤣👍👊
Thanks mate! Can do. Its hard to get it on camera a lot of the time bit we can always try!
Whats the mercedes c220 cdi engine like
Nice one thanks
Has its own issues. Less serious than this, but failed injectors, injector seals & EGRs are common
These Ingenium engines are overcomplicated and it seems to me to be poorly designed compared to other engines. It compares directly to the Ford 2.0 wet belt diesel engine which had only two real issues. A faulty batch of injectors supplied by Continental [formerly Siemens VDO] and, of course, the wet belt. Assuming that they have now sorted both issues, which they do claim, the Ford would seem to be a far superior engine. Then there’s the VAG diesel and even Renault/Nissan, although Renault seems to be phasing diesel cars out now, but the 1.5 litre K9 diesel is a fantastic engine with well over 10 million examples manufactured. Unless someone knows different for sure?
To be fair to the manufacturers, most of the complications come directly from having to meet the ever stricter emissions laws. So it's very unfair to compare an engine that has all that to one built when it wasn't required. Thankfully a small outbreak of common sense overcame the EU regulators for EU7, and they dropped all the pre-start warmup nonsense they were thinking of.
Where the manufacturers then shoot themselves in the foot is by specifying ludicrously long service intervals that are aimed purely at getting low lease values from new, along with company car business with minimal servicing costs, knowing that most engines will survive the initial 3 year in warranty period, pushing the longevity issues to the 2nd hand market. Engine oil in an EU6 diesel has to work ridiculously hard, and to expect it to last 21,000 miles or 2 years is in reality in very few peoples (or the planets) interest.
Are the Ingenium 6 cylinder diesel engines like the D250 and D300, reliable?
The general feedback is that they’re much better
This is indeed my impressions so far - there is virtually no bad news about the 6-cylinder Ingenium diesels that I can find on the internet.
This gives me more confidence to consider the Defender D250 or D300 as a future vehicle purchase.
Is the Jag 3.0 diesel more reliable than the Ingenium? I have an 18 year old 2.7 with 190,000 miles and I'm tempted to look at an XF 3.0 diesel for my next car.
Depending on the age range, the 3 litre is by far the better engine. Only issues with the older ones are crankshafts snapping. The throttle bodies also stick and prevent DPF regeneration so that can be something which needs to be checked and replaced (few hundred quid)
That’s the TDV6. They have their issues, especially the later 3.0.
After 2014 there’s a generation 2 of that engine & it’s definitely unreliable
So did they fix these issues in the defender?
Defender has a 6 cylinder version
@@hughmarcus1 well they have phased out the d240 defender there are still plenty of about.
Ford oil on the diesel .
Avoid the 2.0 Ingenium - especially 2018 -2019.
What was different than the 2017 engines?
Nothing wrong with the engine. Everything wrong with the manufacture’s recommendation on service intervals and lack of information given to buyers on correct use maybe not being suitable for your needs.
Ingenium is another Tata Land Rover fail.
Well over 1.5 million of these engines have been produced here in the UK since the new factory opened in 2015. All modern engines are designed to be as light as possible, have as little friction as possible, and to reduce rotating masses to ensure good fuel economy and meet politically driven emissions figures. As many manufacturers have found, despite development and testing, areas of weakness can show up in use in some cases. The ingenium diesel has uprated timing components fitted from 2019 on and the engine continues to be in widespread use across the whole range of JLR products. I've run an early one for a few years now, and even took out an engine warranty because I was daft enough at the time to take too much notice of what was being said online. Guess what - no timing chain issues, no balancer shaft issues, fantastic fuel economy. Never used for a lot of short runs from cold, and always use premium diesel and 10,000 mile oil change intervals. Long may it continue.
@@fraser7744thank you Adrian Mardell
Ford, actually.
This video summarises this perfectly. Inherently not bad engines, just multiple factors that compound things.
Euro 6 emissions equipment
+City driving
+Crazy high service intervals
I have a high mileage SDV6 Discovery 4 which gets a bad wrap for the same reason. Oil change is cheaper than an engine. "Toyota reliability" comes at the cost in terms of performance and comfort.
What ever happened to the good old utilitarian philosophy of Land Rovers. I suppose there's a price to pay for having an increasing amount of pouncy gadgets.
The designer,s of these engines should never work again madness
Jaguar LR can stick their stupid products - I am sticking with BMW !
Hi errr yes they are one so avoid … bye
These engines are crap. So many things go wrong with them , and this is why so many people buy a Jaguar or Landrover and plaster it all over RUclips., with issies abiut there cars. Dont see Audi Vw Or Bmw diesels nearly as much in youtube as this ingenium crap. No better then the crap British Leyland made in the 80s .
RUclips isn’t representative. Ask workshops. They see plenty
was looking for a good thing to be said for these buckets of shit........but no
JLR = Rover = British Leyland = Avoid.
It’s a long, long time since Leyland owned Land Rover. If you’re going to comment at least try & not be 35 years out of date.
They're an incredible massive bag of shite, end of!
Marcus I have to agree. I would never waste my money on any JLR product, new or used. Anyone thinking about one of these JLR money pits just buy a Lexus or a Toyota. The hybrids are ace - mines a 2019 RAV4. Keep it Toyota serviced and it has a 10 year warranty.
What a cr*p engine.
seems to be over-complicated rubbish.
Emissions regulations drive these requirements
Worst engine ever in a landrover even the 1.8 k series was better than it