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Funny, the early period EGR systems usually quit working, when the vehicle was less than 3 years old, but cars less than 3 years old, usually weren't worn out enough to need an EGR system, so EGR systems failed, before they were even needed!
I got a new 5.7 HEMI engine on my CHARGER RT 07. I also bought an eagle 5.7 HEMI intake manifold but it doesnt have EGR so my mechanic couldnt install it (they told me the newest chargers with VVT dont have it). Is that a problem ? Is there a way to have it despite the fact that the intake manifold doesnt take any ? Thanks
Excellent summary. Note that on modern petrol engines, EGR can be achieved without an EGR valve at all by adjusting valve overlap through the cam timing. There is no EGR valve at all.
thanks for this. Makes sense now with my old high school car - it had an EGR system and also a ton of negative valve overlap due to cam timing. Incidentally, we (enthusiasts of the 88-91 Honda Prelude) found back in the day that regrinding the cams or using adjustable cam gears to create a few degrees of positive overlap both increased higher RPM power output but also seemed to improve emissions despite blocking off the EGR system. Now it makes sense!
I am 82 years old, so I have been around since before all of the emission specs were introduced. Before the positive crank case rules were required, a pipe came out of the crank case which was just open to the air while the engine was running. When the positive crank case rules went into effect, the manufacturers just ran the pipe right back into carburator(sp) which made the engine run poorly. I recently discovered your channel. Some time back you talked about the belief that "they" don't make cars like they used to. That is absolutly true. A car with a 100,000 mile on it was shot. It was only when the Japanese started importing their cars to America that Detroit started making good quality cars.
I suppose if you are crafty enough, you can replace the road draft tube, to a PCV style and that'd make the engine/oil last longer. Accompanied by a oil catch can. I'm 27 years old, I also daily drive an antique vehicle while learning all of it's early emissions systems, pretty neat. Going off tangent here, A few years back, I was taking apart an intake manifold on a 1972? Big block Chrysler. It had an early EGR, it was clogged with carbon, I surmise highway cruising MPG's fell slightly. Another manifold I was taking a look at was the EGR port has been closed off with a plug. Fairly see a few with the EGR ports closed off as it's illegal to modify or change any equipment related to emissions control.
@@deusexaethera😂 You can't expect members of a generation that has the attention span of a goldfish to read anything with more than 5 words involved. 😏
In the 1960s and 1970s, a used car with 100k miles or 10 years old was not worth buying and ended up being sent to the junkyard. Today I’m amazed how well some cars run with @200k miles and that people will buy with confidence a used car with that much mileage.
I have been reading and watching videos on EGR deletion after having cleaned my EGR and associated pipes about 2 years ago. What a mess! However, I have been undecided until now on whether to go that route or not. based on your excellent, comprehensive, video I have decided not to go the "EGR Delete" route. Reason being was your comment on having to actually reprogram the ECU as the correct running parameters for the engine are based on there being exhaust gasses present on the inlet side. Don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but what you say, is logical, and puts the whole saga into perspective! Thank you for taking the time to explain this! 👏👏
Modern cars will pull timing automagically (and reduce power btw). It’s the old cars that suffer when you remove a part of the engine that affects timing, and don’t compensate with a timing change.
@@antonymasefield7710 Not familiar with that model but it probably has an engine computer and knock sensors meaning an EGR delete won’t cause detonation because it will pull timing automatically (and therefore reduce acceleration).
As a diesel mechanic one of the main problems with egrs is the soot build up in the intake manifold and head. I've opened up manifolds that were almost all the way closed off being so clogged with soot. Also have seen major build-up on valves. Love your videos
Do you know why the EGR system in diesels doesn't tap into the exhaust after the DPF? I'd imagine that should help at least a bit (plus the crank case ventilation oil catch gizmo)
Cat did this, called it "Clean Gas Induction" was a failure. I would like to see a water mixture injection to clean the soot out, like when the egr cooler fails it washes out that soot quite well.@@R1ddic
I'm damned sure, if you ask the operators, with the most soot plugging, you will find that they are idleing, almost the same, as they have done, with their pre-EGR engines. They should run APUs, but think that's wrong, that no matter what the engine makers say, 'they are going to do, like they always have'.. Don't worry, the dinosaurs are retiring.
Takes ages to get to the point. Goes on barely related tangents for 10 minutes. And in the end misses the point completely more often than not. Maybe good content for casual doomscroller, but for anyone even slightly technically inclined it's a torture videos.
Bravo! First-timer (viewer) here and very impressed with your content & presentation. Great delivery. As other's have mentioned you sound passionate & educated on the subject matter (fluid non-stop flow) without pandering or getting too deep into personal opinions or sarcasm. In fact, it's that slight (Med or Mid) accent that makes you come across more as an intelligent/cool professor-type versus the (Exceptional American) smarty-man tellin' ya what you should be doin' if you were smart too. Again, Bravo and don't change a thing except the next topic! Cool logo design too!!
@@DonziGT230 The 7.3's are good motors, take care of them and you shouldn't even need to delete if they're running good. The 6.4's on the other hand...🤑
When I worked as a warranty issue investigation engineer in the powertrain department of a major automotive company (not naming companies because of my non-disclosure agreements), EGR coolers fatiguing and/or burning out and dumping the coolant was a considerable cause of engine failures. A friend who also worked in the same company (actually, in the same two auto companies I've worked for) had the same thing happen to his current vehicle. Moral of the story: the EGR might not kill the engine, but the EGR cooler will have a go at it instead!
That is a major problem with BMW diesel engines - I believe it took a while to finally get the supplier to manufacture an EGR cooler that would not fail.
@@mixworks-de Given that BMW only certify parts at homologation and don't have ongoing QC checking on component suppliers, that isn't much of a surprise. The originally tested part may bear little relationship in build quality to the one actually fitted on production lines
Fun fact. I come from the Czech Republic, and here the mighty VW 1.9 TDI engine was incredibly popular (as in most of europe anyway). At this point though vehicles with these engines are now reaching ages of 20+ years. I've seen a couple of videos where they teardown a high milage 1.9, and they deliberately don't clean any of the carbon buildup, because its not rare that that carbon buildup is actually covering and sealing cracks in various parts, that would othervise need replacement.
they intermittently fail and leave you stranded with no power just when you need it most as you go to overtake or pull out into traffic...!!! Happened to me, nearly had a crash. Happened to my sister, she had a crash.
The apple seed oil and oil is the best thing I ever bought for a garden and my plants have grown like a million in the last few years so I’m gonna try it again this week to make it look good for my
Old diesel cars with plunger/mechanical injection with EGR placed as an afterthought are often better served with EGR removed. This was the case with my civilian version of a 4x4 military vehicle; emissions were actually reduced.
Great video! You should do one about DPFs at some point, talking about wet vs dry DPFs and different regeneration types, plus the advantages and disadvantages and deleting!
@@kingGar27 supplemental fuel (active regen) is injected into the exhaust stream, not into the cylinders. I’m a research engineer working in emissions R&D so this stuff is my bread and butter haha
@@kingGar27 Regen of DPF's (at least in the heavy duty diesel world, I'm not too familiar with small diesels) is done by increasing exhaust temp to extreme temps to burn out the soot in the DPF into ash, which can be done in many varying ways. The two main in common use being passively by just running the engine hard, or actively by injecting fuel into the exhaust stream, reacting with the catalyst (DOC) to increase temps and burn out the soot. Most HD diesel engines have a dedicated fuel injector located after the turbo for this purpose. Modern diesel engines with these advanced aftertreatment systems hate being run easy, you really need to load them hard to keep them from having issues.
I've watched 43 seconds and am already (and again as in every video) impressed by the way you express yourself. Really well done, this channel. Thank you and keep it up
I was never in favour of removing or disabling EGR valves, but when mine became clogged on my Peugeot 307 2.0Hdi diesel I had no other choice but to block it off as it's placed behind the engine and can't be removed for cleaning without tearing out half of the engine bay. What a terrible design!
On the 2.0L HDi, EGR is a mess. You just have to unplug the depression line on it and put a screw in it. And... voila. That's it. And the turbocharger spools a bit earlier too (200rpm gained) so the torque between 1000 and 2000 rpm is a bit higher, fuel consumption is better too. 👍 (forgive my English, I'm a French dude 😂)
Urea Nozzles, Reduction-Agent Nozzles, Nox Sensors, Particle Filters, EGR-Coolers are the things we replace the most, the EGR itself is the part that fails the rarest. If it does, it usually is cheap aftermarket and a city diesel. People who regularly drive their diesel on the high ways or rural roads at 50-60 miles will have near zero issues with emission reduction systems caused by soot.
true especially on modern diesels or also direct injection petrol cars. soot is everywhere. but diesels are especially bad. egr, egr coolers, dpf's, injectors, high pressure pumps and all that crap. thats why i refuse to buy anything modern. i like my cars running on petrol with port injection. peak engine Design imo.
Diesel mechanic here, and i woukd partially agree with you. In the early days there were growing pains, but after about 2017 it seems to have smoothed out. But I still do make quite a bit of money on emission systems. Honesty while other shops were deleting everything I was and still am repairing emissions systems. The EPA has cracked down on shops shutting them down so they are having hell trying to learn all the systems which really helps me because I'm well known for emission diagnostics and repair so its really helped my business. Long live emission systems its really supplemented my shops income.
I'm seeing a lot of VW TDI engine imagery in this video. One thing that wasn't touched on at all is the other major contributor of engine oil vapor in the intake tract; the turbo. It's not uncommon for motor oil to accumulate in the turbo plumbing and intercooler from the small amount that seeps past the bearing seals, even on an engine that's working just fine. On my 2005 BHW TDI, this meant that exhaust from the EGR was mixing with that oil and causing MASSIVE amounts of buildup in the intake manifold, especially at the EGR valve. I had to remove both the EGR valve and entire intake manifold and de-gunk them every 40k miles to keep the engine running. It would get so bad that the intake manifold was literally 1/3 its inside diameter inside each runner. Cleaning this gunk off was NOT just a matter of scrubbing with chemicals, it was a very tedious process of first burning it off with a blowtorch (in a very dangerous way) and then chiseling the remainder off. Ultimately, deleting the EGR system proved to be a much better solution. I tried to keep it for years, and I regretted it the entire time.
@@robertescalante9858 Never knew trolls existed in the online car world, but in an other thread this guy was just as stupid. Probably a bot, damn 2024 world...
I’m a heavy duty diesel technician and I work on Detroit engines. The egr system puts so much soot in the intake hose and intake manifold and clogs a lot of the track up
The problem is not the EGR system, the problem is the fuel. Diesel contains paraffin, which burns to produce soot. That soot gets absofuckinglutely everywhere.
@@partymanau I known it. I work on dd15s mainly and my boss has been working on Detroit’s for 45 years and my co worker says Detroit engines suck and Cummins is better as a joke and he got written up. My buddy isn’t wrong though
Hypothetically, if I were to know someone who owns a CJAA 2.0 TDI that has had an EGR/DPF/CAT delete... The obvious smoke from the exhaust is now not visible, and fuel economy is up to 50 MPG from 35 MPG because the engine isn't in a constant state of regen. The only apparent drawbacks would be that the engine takes longer to warm up and if it is much below freezing the engine will only maintain about 75% of it's normal engine temperature, but this isn't a problem during driving. The fuel economy gain alone would make one wonder if these deleted systems did more harm than good. I love your channel and generally find it extremely informative. I will argue the abrasiveness of soot due to being 1/3 the size of the minimum engine clearances through a simple comparison... Have you ever what happens to an engine when someone dumps a tube of lapping compound into the oil? I have. I generally erodes the engine beyond realistic repair.
I have been reading about EGR valves since the 1980s to study for my California Smog technician’s license. This video is by far the most informative and entertaining EGR tutorial.
CAT tried hard not to introduce the EGR. They've invented the ACERT system which sadly didn't work so they went for EGR. And then in 2008 when DPF got mandatory they got out of producing engines for road use because they said the aftertreatment got insane and the reliability will get worse and worse.
I had a 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara with the 2.7 liter V6. Seemingly bulletproof all around. I drove it all over Taiwan for years, from the sands of the beach all the way up to the highest parts of the mountains. North to South, West coast to East coast. For years, I never had a single issue with that vehicle. All except the EGR. I had to either replace or clean and reinstall the EGR multiple times. Eventually, I got tired of that and I did an EGR delete. Never had another problem out of that Vitara ever again. Not one single issue. You can try to justify EGR valves all you want, but in the real world, they suck. I had to pay the annual fuel taxes for the larger 2.7 liter engine (very expensive in Asia) while not getting the full effect of that engine size, thanks to the EGR valve. It simultaneously made the vehicle less fuel efficient. Then, the lack of reliability. Deleting the EGR valve gave me more power, improved my fuel efficiency, and made my vehicle more reliable. Note that the newest cars no longer have EGR valves because they same "benefits" can be achieved in other ways (adjusting valve timing, for example). Also, yes, simply deleting the EGR can increase fuel efficiency and power. For example, the EGR valve does not simply "stop working" all of a sudden like a light bulb going out. The failure process is a long, drawn out process that gets worse over time. Over that period of time, the immediate issue you deal with is vacuum leak in your system, which immediately causes problems in terms of power. Deleting the EGR valve, you immediately remove the vacuum leak. You insure that prolonged vacuum leaks don't have to be factored into the overall performance of your engine, year over year. Which means that you see an immediate, and overall, and a long term increase in power by simply ditching the EGR valve.
I have a Subaru Sambar and the EGR failed, caused a total lack of acceleration after 3rd gear, took me way too long tracing everything to figure it out. Once I found the part was no longer produced and could not obtain a working used one I routed around it and the truck has been running happier ever since. The fact the truck is almost 30 years old also helps since it is exempt from emmisions now.
I once removed a rear wheel from one of my cars (maybe it was a BatMobile, can’t remember) and it drive great! Better than most cars with 4 wheels! Those stupid manufacturers who turn out expensive 4 wheel vehicles are just ripping us off.
Man, what a thorough walk-through on such a complex issue, yet keeping it digestable and easy to follow. I usually avoid consuming videos of half an hour run time simply because I lost interest or focus along the way, but every material on this channel is captivating 'till the very end. That is valuable (content) -> knowledgebase creation at its finest.
He and Jason from RR are the only car enthusiasts I like. So many are quite frankly dumb, selfish, and a lot of times just ignorant on so many aspects of engineer or science. So it is nice having videos from a guy who can explain it so well. Who is intelligent. Knows what he is talking about to boot. One ho isn't like "hurdur delete emission parts, blow coal. I hate EVs as they don't make toddler noises* It is refreshing. Love the videos. Hope he never changes.
I think you did a pretty good job of covering this topic. For owners, the biggest downside of EGR is maintenance costs, which are high and wil get ever higher over time due to inflation. Also, while perhaps EGR itself isn't as bad as it's sometimes made out to be, EGR is only one component of the overall engine emission system, which includes many components, all of which significantly increase the price of a new vehicle and also require lifetime maintenance that increases over time. I have a family member who owned a VW diesel (Jetta) which he bought new. The DPF failed and the replacement was very expensive. He did a DPF delete and also deleted other emission components. The car got much better mileage, had much more horsepower and significantly reduced maintenance costs. If there is no DPF and EGR, they don't have to be replaced. Another family member had a Mercedes diesel (W164), which over the years of ownership the emissions system required thousands of dollars of maintenance, by far the worst of which was the urea tank, which is a known problem. It was a very expensive part and it was very expensive to replace. After the third time it failed, they ended up selling the vehicle, but before selling it, they looked closely at removing all of the emissions components. The one-time cost to remove all of the unreliable complexity would have saved thousands of dollars of future maintenance.
His fantasy is based in theory, not the real world. EGR is shit. Doesn't lower emissions. It's a scam being forced upon us. There are other methods to get the emissions results but it's not a negotiation, it's a mandate from politicians who get paid to vote a certain way.
Same thing happened my father. Car that would just work many years longer went directly to scrapyard, just because repetive EGR fails. He never bought diesel again.
Love the video. Well done as always. To your point on carbon deposits. I am not a proponent of deleting EGR systems, but I also know of more than one "deleted" diesel engine that has clear oil at its service intervals. That's something I've always found notable. To your point on reliability, here in the States we see high failure rates of EGR related components within the first (non-leased) ownership. Coolers, sensors, and valves on modern light and medium duty truck engines are well known to encounter problems within the first 30-60k miles. That's notable since many of these owners put on between 15k and 40k miles/year. These repairs, depending on the engine, can range from a few hundred bucks to upwards of 3-4k dollars. The cost and perceived unreliability are the major contributors for the folks I encounter to delete those systems.
A large part of your problem is related to the captive USA market (chicken tax!) not encouraging makers to do a better job There's a reason USA cars don't sell well outside North America - they're simply nowhere near as good as the competition and represent a very poor value for money proposition
@einar8019 you obviously don't know much about the world then. I haul furniture, building supplies, dirt, metal scrap, garbage, boats, campers, etc. on a regular basis. It is NOT for commercial use only, but a multitude of uses. A large semi/lory truck is far too impractical for many of the uses that the pickup truck is designed for. I know of pickup engines that have failed within 300k due to emissions systems failing and personally know of several well over 900k with zero engine problems with the poorly designed emissions systems removed. Wish we could have it all, but unfortunately, that's not the case.
Super video. We once had a 1997 Opel Astra Station, 1.6 l. 16V, bought in 2000 with 41.500 kms ODO. At 50.000 kms the EGR valve was blocked, and at 90.000 kms again. The engine wouldn't run in both cases. Both repairs were very costly (official dealer), but because I had a warranty agreement it didn't cost me a cent. But the unreliability made me sell it.
Thank you for the video. I'm from Russia, sorry for my speech. We have the same problem in our country. There are a lot of people who remove the EGR system. I completely agree with everything you said! But I want to complement the words. Oil vapors that arise in the EGR system also lubricate the upper compression ring, so you can’t put the oil in the trash. The engine warms up faster due to the heat exchanger/ radiator EGR. The radiator cools the gases, but during a cold start the gases heat up the cooling system fluid. Deposits in the intake manifold do not affect the power of a diesel engine so much if they do not clog the channel at all. I have a 2013 Mitsubishi L200, diesel, common rail, the EGR system has not been removed, it has driven 320,000 km. At 290,000 km. Cleaned the intake manifold and EGR for the first time! I work as an auto mechanic, mainly repairing engines, and it is very difficult to explain to clients about the negative effect of removing the system. All people who want to delete are deceived and do not want to hear the opposite opinion. Good luck BRO! 👋👋👋
Do they sell the Pajero Sport there? I have a 2021 model, which has the 4N15 engine, the same as the newer Triton/L200. I'm considering turn off EGR. As the car sometimes feels very sluggish and the engine sounds louder than usual. Not sure if this is when the EGR is working to let exhaust gas in the intake 🤔
@@tuan.hoang_that's not the EGR causing that. It's actually the exhaust filters (dpf) going through a cleaning cycle. You can turn off dpf regen with a delete tune and then get rid of the exhaust filters.
@@tuan.hoang_ that's surprising, your car was also sold in Europe and Australia with a dpf. Usually your EGR is always working once the engine is warm, unless you floor the accelerator. But you could check this using a scan tool to see if it's open or closed.
@@tomtom1541 yeah depending on the market but the 2021 model in my country doesn't have dpf, only since 2022+ models starting to have dpf due to regulations require Euro 5. I just did a full exhaust straight from turbo down to the rear end. The car feels a lot better, before I just had a tune with stock hardware and it felt like something was holding back. The EGR is next on my checklist, not sure if that's the right thing to remove.
The petrol MITSUBISHI Evo X does EGR without an external valve. It uses exhaust cam timing to leave the cylinders partially full of exhaust ready for the next combustion.
You are my new hero. Thank you for the very intresting and useful information. I am an auto electrician and can add that if someone chooses to simply block off the EGR pipe on any modern car without reprogram the ECU pretty soon the engine light will come on and some cars will even go into limp mode, as the system monitors MAF so error codes will pop up
Worth noting that Scania has Euro 6 compliant engines with no EGR and just their dual SCR system which has better fuel economy due to that apparently, along with not needing an EGR cooler anymore which is good for removing a potential point of failure that's kind of annoying to get to. Really the big problem with emissions equipment in general is that people don't understand how they work and how they affect performance (which for any exhaust treatment system is 0 when properly sized) which leads to people doing dumb stuff because they think running a much richer AFR with the stock DPF is completely fine and totally won't fill the filter material with unburnable ash twice as fast rendering the filter useless until cleaned or replaced. Edit: forgot to mention that you can technically delete your PCV system if you run a dry sump. The scavenge pumps will pull a pretty decent partial vacuum on the crankcase and other than sucking out all the oil, before that oil goes to the main oil pump to be recirculated the blow-by gases are separated and fed to the exhaust system. Dry sumps also reduce pumping losses via the crankcase vacuum so you'll also liberate some power if you switch to one, sometimes over 20hp depending on engine which is about as much as a very well engineered intake system (given no engine remap after replacing the entire intake system); if the almost total elimination of any oil starvation risk wasn't a good enough sell for you.
@@cathat9622 DPF deletes are probably more common than EGR deletes though as a lot of cars don't implement the regen cycles well or just end up clogging the filter because people drive 10 minute stints which aren't even close to long enough to burn off the soot in the filter. It's annoying for people who don't have any option other than driving those short distances but depending on where you live you should really replace those 10 minute journeys with public transit if possible and drive for fun or when you need to do longer trips. Most effective way to reduce traffic and you don't have to drive on annoying main streets where half the people are angry enough to kill a toddler or too busy looking at their phones to focus on driving. Plus if the city government isn't stupid public transit will be faster than driving anyway even if just to encourage people who don't want to be driving in the first place to take the bus. It makes sense to delete emissions equipment on some show vehicles though. They do affect sound and let's be honest, your straight piped Scania V8 that get's driven 2000km a year to shows and almost nothing else is probably less damaging to the environment than the guy who drives his stupid SUV around the city for 25000km a year, plus diverter valves exist :).
yeah getting rid of EGR entirely has been a huge talking point with commercial diesel engines in recent years I think Cummins has an aftertreatment system aswell that makes EGR redundant
I was wondering when this was going to start happening, EGR and DPF are a bad mix with how much extra soot EGR makes, and any EGR issues quickly develop into severe DPF clogging if action isn't taken in a timely manner. I figured there was a reason why SCR wouldn't be able to pick up the slack, maybe just the size of the catalyst needed is holding this back, but here in the USA we don't have any new diesel trucks that don't come with EGR. Hopefully we start to see this soon, if it becomes a popular setup in Europe I'm sure Detroit Diesel (Daimler) will implement it here eventually.
Diesel engines don't gain as much power from a "dry sump" system owing to a generally lower operating RPM. Windage losses go up on the square of RPM, so the higher the engine revs, the more benefit from a dry sump system. My question is, would a dry sump system help reduce carry-over of oil vapor and mist, through the crankcase decompression system? If it helps, that would make dry sump well worth doing!
We had a 1973 Ford wagon with 400 CID engine. The EGR was an add-on system with a plate right under the carburetor. The EGR aluminum eroded and caused two fires. Both needed the plate replaced.
Very interesting approach, this « displacement reduction system ». A problem (wether it comes with the EGR or the PF) is manufacturers do not warn users about the way to manage this. Many people sell their car because they get rid of alerts, and EGR or mass airflow sensors malfunctions, when it’s just that the PF failed to achieve its regeneration properly.
@@nirfz I don't work in Diesel development but my guess is that you want the high pressure EGR and not low pressure after the turbo and DPF. If you don't have a certain pressure gradient between EGR gas and intake manifold you drastically reduce your possible EGR rate.
@@Dan_Divebomb But the pressure difference between before the DPF and after only differs by max 0.3 bar from what i have been shown at full throttle and way less than that at mid and low throttle. (collegue of mine has the measurings of his few years old Diesel engine because of the DPF having been in question of being full with ash or not.) That would be enough to not work? I have read that the 1.6 diesel from Renault, Mercedes uses in some applications (modified from the Renault startingpoint) does use the EGR after the DPF, but i never found any source about any other engine doing that, hence trying my luck with you with my question.
@@nirfz well the keyword is 'before turbo' :) In my department we start activating EGR when the exhaust pressure is about 50mBar higher than intake manifold pressure. That's why you need high pressure before the turbine wheel reduces it. And as the DPF ages the pressure difference increases and reduces EGR rate which is another reason not to do it that way. There are some applications where low pressure EGR is used but then it's returned to the intake before the compressor wheel of the turbo. I'm not quite sure what the benefits of that are except maybe for a more homogeneous distribution in the air and possibly a more even distribution among the cylinders if the mixer of egr and fresh air is not sufficiently good.
PCV vent to atmosphere and EGR delete 😂 I was trying to not doing the above, until I overhaul my own diesel car engine... it just a mess on my intake valve, intake manifold... most important the EGR actuator is full of carbon deposits as well :(
I'd like to see videos on the subsequent DPF (which is seen as a burden on diesels) and DEF/AdBlue systems (which require you to buy urea fluid for it). This video is well-presented and detailed, giving me a different perspective on EGR systems. I wonder if newer EGR systems take exhaust gases from after the DPF or if that's impractical.
Taking on a highly controversial subject and kudos to you for doing so. As a mechanic I have had many frustrating moments working on those systems, however they were an important step in clean air. Modern petrol engine rarely have an EGR due to use of variable cam timing. Of course diesels engines still have these but it's just a part of the maintenance of the vehicle. The people that have the most problems are the ones who use tuners to roll coal and they deserve it anyway. Emissions can be a pain but I remember driving into cities like Denver Co or LA in the 90s and compare that to now. There is visibly much less smog than there was back then. Learn how to take good care of your vehicle and maintain it and you will have fewer t problems.
Thank you for being a reasonable mechanic. Every other mechanic I now or have argued with on the internet is just a complete moron when it comes to emission reduction systems. I don't how many times I've tried to explain to fellow technicians that egr alone is not what clogs up your intake but the introduction of oil vapors. With d4a I'm happy to now have a respected person to quote. Seriously, I thought i was the only mechanic who wants to breathe clean air/cares a little about the environment.. props to you my man
@@Harry_Gersack you as well sir. I'm reality when you look at all the regulations that must be completed with our modern emissions systems are quite impressive on how well they work as well as their robustness.
@@curtisroberts9137 thx. I've actually haven't had that much problems with these systems. Of course if one fails they are usually hard to get to, but it's not like I jave to repair them day in day out
@@Harry_Gersack maybe your location? I'm in the salt belt and we also have a lot of gravel roads. The corrosion and dirt are very hard on evap and some other systems.
@@curtisroberts9137 I'm from Germany, we have lots of salt on the roads where I live. So also lots of corrosion on body and frame. But gravel roads are very rare here, so maybe it is because they rarely see dusty air that many engine components last longer? But I'd say it depends mainly on the makes and models I'm working on. (Almost exclusively european and japanese cars) I'm guessing they put more effort in designing emissions related parts because they know they have to last longer. You have to do an emissions test every two years with the inspections, otherwise your "operating permit" for the vehicle expires. You can't just do an egr delete, decat or sth like that
I think a good addendum to this video would be the comparison of EGR's efficacy versus water and water/methanol injection as a mechanism to reduce air charge temperatures to lower NOx.
I ran a 1971 chevy pickup with water methanol injection & air to water intercooler which pumped cold water through the repurposed egr ports. It ran great for 28 years in a row.
We have a 1973 Mustang Convertible that was literally stored in a barn for over 40 years, after its owner who bought it in 1973 got very ill and passed away just over a year later. When we purchased it the odometer showed an original reading of just a little over 19,000 miles. Thee engine ran great, the automatic transmission works properly, and the engine is still in nearly the same clean, untouched condition as it was when it was new, other than a few oil and filter changes and a tune up that was done long ago. The 1973 Ford 302 2v engine came with an EGR valve, in an early attempt to reduce NOx emissions. Soon after purchasing the Mustang I began to look it over, and I tested the EGR by applying vacuum to its actuating diaphragm with a vacuum testing unit, mostly to see if the disphragm was leaking or not. No leaking, but at idle as I opened the EGR valve a little the engine began to run rough, so I knew the flow of exhaust gas was not being obstructed (which I felt it would not have been with so few miles anyway). On a lark I decided to leave the vacuum hose detached from the EGR valve so I could drive the car and see if a slight hesitation coming off idle, at light throttle would go away (in some engines back in the early days of EGRs the EGR valve opening too much or too soon would cause a sudden stumble and degradation of smooth performance). Nope, the hesitation was exactly the same as when the EGR was connected. Okay, so I figured it is obviously not causing a problem with engine performance, it does help quench the temperature of combustion, and helps reduce the propensity for engine pinging. So I reconnected it, and rechecked the accerlerator pump, which was working just fine. I difured the only other thing that might be causing this slight off idle hesitation in acceleration might be a low carburetor float level. So, I odrered a carburetor rebuild ki, removed the carburetor, and found it had been rebuilt, or at least opened up, previously (I knwq htis because the Power Valve was double gasketed, not a manufacturing error). Also, the float level was set about 1/4" too low, which would definitely be enough of a problem with fuel being sucked into the carburetors throat because the fuel level in the venutri fuel pickup tubes would be lower than expected, and air coming into the carburetor throat would get the needed fuel from the venturi would be slightly delayed, resulting in a lean Air/Fuel ratio bog or hesitation. I know back in the 60s and 70s some folks felt lowering the float level would save on gasiline by causing the engine to run leaner. Well, perhaps it would make some little bit of difference, but I was more concerned with the smooth operation of the engine and not having a needless hesitation coming off idle. So I reset the float level to its proper valve, installed a new Power Value, using only one of the two gaskets in the rebuild kit, cleaned all the air and fuel passageways, reassembled the carburetor, and once the engine was running long enough to attain its normal operating temperature I adjusted the idle, the idle A.F mixtrue, the high speed choke cam RPMs, and double checked the ignition initial timing value. On the next road test the carburetor work beautifully. No more off idle hesitation, and that was with the EGR connected. Now, three years later I come across this video and feel good about my decision to leave the EGR connected and functional. The engine runs fine. I have not one complaint or gripe about it or its performance - which is not an asphalt chewing level of performance with a simple 302 2v engine. It is enough engine to have some fun scooting around. It is not intended to be a street racing monster, especially with its steep rear axle ratio gears witting at 3.0:1. No, this is more of a cruising machine, and it does that very nicely. Kudos for a brilliant look at what EGR systems do, how, and why.
Thanks for explaining this topic so well ! I have a diesel car, bmw e46 3 liters, 6 cylinders, 22 years old, 460000 kms, still with the EGR (easily accessible) with pneumatic command… I thought I would remove it but I did not and now I’m glad I still have it. I removed it once to replace it, but after cleaning with petrol (and a toothbrush) I put it back, the new one is still in the box, probably I’ll never use it !!
i had a vw polo sdi 1999 and removed the egr and the butterflyvalve. the egr was cloged up and the intake manifold as well, cleaning it increased the performance..back to what it once was ;) knowing what i know now (thanks to you) i would have cleaned it and left it active. but i think my 1984 jetta doesn't have egr..so nothing to worry about than. thanks for schooling us
Thanks for another informative vid. I blanked off the EGR valve on my 2005 2.5l, five cylinder VW T5. I didn't notice anything other than fuel consumption improving slightly. This was proven by my fuel consumption records over ten years (same 3000 km journey, same vehicle, six times a year during similar dates). The fuel consumption went back to normal after a while and I found that the aluminium blanking plate that I'd made and installed had burnt through. It's a real shame that these devices are causing engines' service life to be reduced, now that manufacturers have learnt how to make the rest of the engine last.
The thing with soot build up is that eventually, it leads to oil lines obstruction. I work in a specialized turbo shop, and one of the main reasons for them to fail is oil contamination and deficient lubrication.
I thought that was more from the auto-start-stop function: As far as i remember beign told, if you shut down the engine while the turbo is really hot, it makes the oil burn inside the oil lines of the Turbo and crystalize what's in it. So reving the engine high and then shutting it off (like many like to do to show off) or the constant start stop in city traffic would be the killers of a Turbo then.
@nirfz that is also true. When you turn off the engine, the oil leaving the turbocharger slows down almost getting stuck in it. If the turbo is too hot from being abused or from a long trip, the oil gets cooked and eventually damages the turbo bearings and rotor. In normal city use (when auto stop function is more commonly used) it isn't a problem. Also soot from the engine clogs variable geometry systems, making them fail. Not a catastrophic failure, but you need to open the turbo and clean it.
EGR, Direct Injection, PCV system that allows oil fumes to get sucked back through the throttle body/intake and gumming up the intake valves as well as lowering the effective octane rating. Low tension piston rings, particulate filters, catalytic converters and finally extended oil change intervals, ALL contribute to slowly suffocating and destroying an engine. Most engines from the 1970's and 80's were more fuel efficient, size for size! LOL. 🛑You are making damn good videos and it makes me happy to see you have a good number of subscribers now 🙂 🛑
This is by far the best YT channel when it comes to actual science. EGR is also important for DPF regeneration cycles. So if you remove the EGR, the DPF burn cycles might not work as they should and as a end result, might clog the DPF.
it's actually the exact opposite. Egr feeds the dpf soot. without it and with a nice tune, the car can actually work with the dpf without blowing up the engine.
@@spiki_x6863 Correct, I had the EGR deleted on my car. My distance between regens increased from 366 miles to 2,000 miles. I had less soot and better Fuel Economy. Also my car had the SCR system which consumed more DEF to lower NOx.
Where i am from If you are getting rid of the egr the dpf filter also leavnig with it, it is just a 10,000 dollar liability. It is leaving with it for cost of maintenance and safety some people i know have had to put out fires stated by regens
Did I get that right? The EGR allows to mix exhaust gases with fresh air/fuel mixture. That is, an open EGR reduces the level of air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber, meaning there is less energy for combustion, therefore it becomes less hot and finally NOx emissions improve as a result. Correct? If so, then the EGR does nothing but control volumetric efficiency. Still correct? But what's the difference to the throttle body then? I can get the same effect by having a half open throttle, can't I? Well, of course at the cost of increased pumping losses. But would that justify an EGR (which has some disadvantages on its own, too)?
I'm no expert and because you're mentioning "throttle body" I assume you are talking about petrol engines: By closing the throttle you are "breaking" with your engine. The EGR allows you to make less power in cruising conditions by effectively lowering the cylinder volume (and therefore injecting less fuel) while keeping the throttle position open.
@@helge000 Thanks for your answer. Yes, that makes sense. But again, while you avoid pumping losses using an EGR on the one side, you're adding all those disadvantages mentioned in the video on the other. All for the sake of reducing pumping losses... right?
@@SuperDirk1965 Thanks. Could you give more details? It lowers the percentage of oxygen in the mixture. Got it. That is, if you wanna keep stochiometry, then lower percentage of oxygen means lower percentage of fuel. Right? So then I'd still say that I can achieve the very same by closing the throttle. No? I understand that this would be at the cost of efficiency (due to pumping losses). But other than that?
This is simply the best cars/engines channel on the whole web. Everywhere else are speaking half true either because they don't understand the logic and principle of working parts and systems or because they are paid to promote something. I recomend all my car interested friends as a must channel!
My 89 460 has the EGR blocked off because my aftermarket EFI install book instructed me to do so. It doesn't have any way of properly utilizing the EGR system or compensating for it so it had to go. My goal was to build a powerful engine for pulling trailers which is what I did and MPG was extremely low on the list of concerns. That being said it is good to know how that system actually operates.
Nothing burns cleaner than an engine that is tuned and breathes properly. Egrs and emissions are just a way of politicians to scam everyone over climate change.
I did the oil catchcan and egr delete for N47 engine. The egr is still present with a plate on the exhaust post. In the ECU i just set the air to exhaust set to 100% air, so the system would not want to open anyway. I did this because of high milage and when i did some massive overhauling (removed the engine, changed timing chains, cleaned injectors (since they were out anyway), and after cleaning the intake.. man i have nightmares still. ) Also the catchcan just breathes into the air. Now distance between regens of DPF is longer Theoretically it means it runs hotter.. but the cooling system should keep up, as it was designed to keep up even at 100% load with no EGR anyway. It also improves emmisions from the periodic techicval inspections (MOT) point of view that is measuring the opacity of the exhaust gases (for diesel).. so removing EGR improves the opacity test. The only thing a goverment should do is to maintain the limits not only for the manufacturares but for techincal inspections as well with more toleranhce with respect to age.. some formula or something. As soon as the MOT/or whatever is called will check NOx concetration in diesel engines, then the egr's will be no longer deleted (in theory). Measuring NOx is tricky. At high loads NOx is greatest and no EGR. So weather the EGR is deleted or not, it will should roughly get the same value. The real NOx increase is at partial loads. It could be done.. to make a test of diesels not at full rpm but partial loads. Partial loads can be hard to reproduce and is a function of the load not just the rpm in neautral.. so equiping MOT station with dynos is not feasable. The opacity of the exhaust at least checks for major faults (like leaky injectors that will be a soot machine, or blown turbo seals that spews oil in the dpf and intake causing massive amounts of soot and black smoke) and if the ecu values/sensors/formulas are not messed up and still provides accurate burn control I've heard there are some checks to see if EGR is still present at MOT.. mine is still present. And it can be reactivated with ease if needed. For now it remains deactivated for me.
Where i live the exhaust gasses were measured every year as part of the road worthy check and deleting the EGR or DPF would mean to not pass the tests. (the emission ratings the car has to achieve depend on when the car-engine combination was registered to be on the market by the manufacturer. So a 20 year old car does not need to fullfill EU6 but what was the norm back then...) Thing is, that exhaust check is nowadays done via onboard diagnosis and not via measuring sensor in the exhaust anymore. (as modern cars conveniently present the numbers for the workshop) And that's how some people get away with those deletes where i live. At least until they get checked by police at some point (or they are lucky and don't). But the risk is there with DPF deletes, as cars start to smoke black that shouldn't. And they do check by measuring, and if they find a DPF delete, the car is off the road and it gets expensive.
For example, in CRDi engines, the EGR valve is opened to up to 1800 revs/min. By blanking the valve, you improve acceleration from lover revs (you do not strangle your engine) and decrease turbo lag (better airflow)
If you do delete the PCV and add a catch can, they make them now to automatically drain back into the oil pan like the turbo drain. Killer video bud always enjoy the uploads. Keep rocking🤘🤘
@@pecata01yeah but would you look into your catch can to make sure there is no water in there before you start to drive to make sure? i wouldnt. just empty it from now and then and its fine.
yes, alot of humidity gets caught in the catch can, so if you just bring it into the oil pan, it will most likely cause issues down the line.@@99Lezard99
Volvo D5 E3 engine here with 230,000 miles on it. Last year I cleaned the EGR and intake of all soot. It took about three hours all in. No reason to delete it. Great video, thanks for a proper, fact based explanation.
Excellent point about pvc vapor combining with egr soot Catch can is an option, so is venting to atmosphere, thus removing the sticky nature and keeping the intake clean on direct injection
Venting to atmosphere is going to dirty the oil faster. Typically the PCV has a source of fresh air from before the throttle body, then it pulls vacuum on the crank space when it's working after the throttle body. Usually they are on opposite ends of the engine, so the clean air has to pass through the entire crank volume to get to the suction port. That means the crank space air volume is replaced by fresh air so it's all clean. If you vent to atmosphere the only thing replacing the air in the crank space is more dirty blowby forcing the lingering dirty blowby out the vents, so there will always be dirty combustion byproducts hanging out and eventually settling into the oil.
@@pontiacg445This is why if you decide to vent into atmosphere you should install a filter into the hose. Granted it becomes yet another thing that you have to clean or swap periodically but at least your engine now inhales clean, oxygen rich air rather than the hot, oily air that is devoid of oxygen. External breather is a performance mod of sorts, a small one but measurable.
@@pontiacg445 you dont really understand how engines work, sorry. Venting to atmosphere is literally venting the shit that ends up absorbed in the oil.
Never enjoyed a truck more than when I deleted the EGR, DPF, and DEF systems along with a PCV reroute to the atmosphere. The Duramax engine is custom tuned properly to account for the changes, providing maximum reliability and longevity. Normal car people wouldn't understand, but very common in the HD truck world. Great video!
@@fastinradfordablego look up the problems related to crank case filter on any 2011 and up diesel. There's absolutely no power retention by leaving it on. Some of the manufacturers have new pass through filters but it doesn't provide any added power on a diesel.
Had the EGR valve break on my old mid/late 90s Vauxhall Astra. My dad looked online and then took the EGR valve off cut out the side of a Coke can as a blanking plate, screwed it back together and all was good until i eventually scrapped the car maybe 10 years (and maybe a hundred thousand miles!) later!
We did try cleaning prior to this. It was stripped off and taken apart as much as possible, cleaned with a brush and then soaked in cleaner overnight. It was still @#£%ed though, hence the Coke blanking. But this was an early EGR.
@@davekennedy6315Having the same experience, blanked my Astra G X16SZR and since then all engine lights regarding the egr system stopped and carbon build up stopped being a issue. Before it required cleaning frequently and caused loads of issues!
@SemiGamerNr ridiculous aren't they! At the time Vauxhall were actually selling an EGR blanking kit (a blanking plate and supposed ECU chip) and I was reading people on early forums having this issue repeatedly with BRAND NEW cars with low mileage, hence the kit being offered.
Very good explanation of the EGR. Almost the first thing I did when I bought my 1986 Grand National was delete the EGR and have the chip burned to disable it. Now the EGR on my 86 is completely gone. There is a blockoff plate on the manifold where the EGR valve was located. I initially milled the EGR tower off my upper plenum and it was milled off the lower intake manifold when I had my stock heads ported and my lower intake port matched to the heads. Not only that the plumbing in the stock lower intake has had the EGR opening welded shut. Here recently I just purchased a PCV catch can and a catch can for removing the residue coming out of the valve covers. Knowing what I know now, I should have just put a couple of catch cans and keep the EGR system functional. On my 86 Grand National, it was really easy to remove and clean. Buy a new EGR gasket and put it back on. In some states, maybe only California, vehicles still have to have their emissions certified, even 1986/87 Grand Nationals so the EGR can't be deleted and people who live in that state have lived with them and probably realized that they didn't effect peak power anyway.
I've watched a number of your videos now. I just wanted to say thank you. I think you're one of the best educators out there in RUclips land. Fascinating stuff!!
I daily drive a turbo diesel hiace 1KD or 1KZ ?. At about 200K it was doing 4-5 dpf burns per tank fill and i was lucky to get 560Km's. EGR and DPF delete plus an economy tune has improved the range to 670+ Km's. Full service is done at 10K and never skimped on. Indicated average fuel economy has improved from 9.6 to 8.1 l/100 and it will take some time to recover the cost of the tune up in fuel savings but i have no regrets although the exhaust fumes are much stronger now... Love you channel.
I have been wrenching on all types of cars for 30 years. I enjoy watching explanation videos even though 99% of the time I already fully understand exactly how and why a particular system works. So I don't often learn much if anything from videos like this. But I did today. I've known exactly HOW an EGR worked for years. But I didn't realize until watching this that while I mostly understood the "why" I actually didn't FULLY understand the WHY. Outstanding video, also I just realized I wasn't sub'd to the channel... I am now.
On some engines, EGR is used to control exhaust temperatures. Overheated and failed exhaust valves and warped exhaust manifolds can occur if you have one of these engines and the EGR system doesn’t work. Typically high output natural gas engines do this, and I’ve seen a number of engines damaged in this way.
@Look_What_You_Did cooling allows an engine to run at higher rpms without shearing pistons but I guess simpletons like you don't think beyond trying to prove your shallow points and being mad
@@Look_What_You_Did Your information is wildly out of date. Go look up a Mazda 2.5L Skyactiv-G Turbo. They use cooled EGR to keep the engine from knocking under boost at high RPM. That combined with direct injection is how they're getting 10.5:1 compression out of them despite running 20 psi of boost. Even a Toyota Prius relies on cooled EGR to run 14:1 compression on 87 octane. This stuff is all over SAE journals.
Here yo go again, taking something I have a surface-level understanding of, and digging far, far deeper :D I never really understood the supposed benefits of an EGR delete, so thanks for clarifying that it's basically nothing! It really is fascinating all these little tweaks and modifications manufacturers need to do in order to follow regulations (at an immense cost in R&D, I am sure). Kinda makes you understand why VW decided "screw this, we're cheating on the tests", a few years back :D In a parallel to this, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the modern diesel-specific emissions stuff like AdBlue and DPF, those are also vilified by tuners, is it also just a story to get money from owners, or is there some truth to it?
Anything that helps the environment is vilified by tuners. They want people behind their cars to choke on as much toxic fumes as possible. In my country narrowminded people brag about the systems they fit to pass emissions, that can be turned off afterwards.
Actually, by the logic EGR has to improve fuel efficiency on a not-fully-opened throttle aka idling and cruising, which is a big plus where fuel costs a lot. VW basically failed to comply and thus they found a 'workaround' of sorts. Other companies didn't fail somehow at the same time. P.S.: not a eco activist, but like to have my facts like my coffee - straight.
You have such a great way of explaining a subject with a combination of plausable simplicity, and a thouroughness that really paints a complete picture of the subject at hand, without a ton of fluffy filler. Thank you, and please keep doing what you do!
How runaway is even possible with modern motors? If amount of fuel is controlled electronically, and you shut off engine isn't that enough to stop runaway because injectors stop spraying fuel? I don't get it...
@@Felix2417425 Diesels don't usually run away on diesel, often a seal somewhere fails and begins feeding the engine oil. Diesels will run on nearly anything, and they're compression ignition, sooo... Yeah, that can cause problems sometimes.
I owned a VW TDI, once I got to 90k miles, I had a lot of problems due to the EGR, long story short. $18,000 in repairs to get it running again. (The extended warranty covered most of the repair cost) I paid around $4000 in service fee’s to analyze and identify the issue. Basically you don’t want a diesel engine with a particular filter, EGR, takes Def fluid. All those are the problem, the older diesel engines that blow black smoke are the diesel engines that will run 500,000 miles or more. Thank this guys for explaining the EGR in detail. He is awesome 😎
Incredibly on point. I'd like to add that blocking the egr on an efi petrol engine is a bad idea because the ECU is calibrated to advance ignition timing when the ecu commands egr open, and pulls fuel to compensate for the inert charge, which is oxygen rich with a blocked egr, causing the perfect storm of detonation, lean mixture, and excess timing at cruising speed.
I would have thought that most ECUs would still calculate fuel based off mass air flow. If there egr was blocked than more air would need to flow to fill the cylinder, this would be detected be the MAF sensor and fuel adjusted accordingly. But I’m only speculating based on my knowledge as an interested lay person
@@andrewdynes5300 That's the whole point of doing this in conjunction with a tuning shop as is mentioned in the video. You reprogram to computer to compensate for the fact you no longer have an EGR system.
My father in law’s 2015 diesel Toyota Avensis with BMW derived engine and half my mileage has its egr valve low and to the rear of the block. It requires hours of work to access and various mechanics would not touch it. After 18 months of check engine light he finally got a mechanic to do the work. The mechanic would only replace it given the amount of work required. The egr was replaced twice. When it failed on the third time he had the EGR and DPF and Cat delete carried out and a remapping. It exhausts so freely now the dominant engine noise is turbo whistle.
@@Harry_Gersack All mechanics involved were well established and fully equipped businesses. A mechanic can’t undo bad design. I’m not a mechanic and can service my egr with ease. In my view the mechanics were reluctant because the true cost of the work was significantly more than they felt able to charge for. Plus the maintenance would only be temporary.
In the video, it wasn't mentioned that. Especially prevalent in turbocharged diesel engines. pros: -The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) system, if present on the model, helps the engine warm up by passing through the EGR cooler. cons: -Deposits not only form in the EGR system but also in the subsequent intake channels, especially if the turbo passes some oil on the cold side (which can allow them to operate smoothly for many kilometers, presumably up to 100,000, without issues). -In my experience, electric EGR valves can close about 20% in roughly one second, slowing down throttle responses because a significant amount of exhaust gas pressure is diverted to the intake side instead of spinning the turbo."
I built a very high compression 350 chevy with a large cam. That 75 Monte Carlo. I had drivable problems. Hooked up an EGR and she was streetable and tamed the demons, drivability, even milage and speeds went up. Each engine is different. Mikel
Had my 1.9 TDI remapped for increased hp and they asked if they should do an EGR delete while they are at it. EGR valve still "works" and does the self test every time the engine starts but just stays closed when the engine is running. And i have to say, you notice the difference in throttle response. When you step on the pedal there are no exhaust gasses inside the manifold that first have to be burned before the engine runs at peak efficiency. It just goes and i love it.
I have an OPEL Frontera of the '96, 2.0i Petrol, I have "patched" the EGR because it always got blocked by the soot itself. Also, I have mounted an oil catch can, and, with both this, the health of the intake manifold has increased dramatically. Even when brand new it didn't look so clean. Don't regret anything ...
the EGR pipe on my V6 Mazda would get clogged and was poorly designed in my opinion. It was actually designed and built by Ford. Such half-hearted attempts do require modifications to run well.
The main reason I watch the channel is what you said in the first 60+ seconds of this video even though I have 40+ years in now as a master mechanic and body/paint man now. 0:57
My US Import AW11 actually had an EGR but was deleted by the previous owner. Kinda glad about it because I assume that one falls under the early cheap ones that will fail?
Yes, has a rubber diaphragm in it. I had one too, it was busted when I bought the car, of course replacements are no longer existent and used ones are a gamble as most are busted too. The issues of cars that are almost 40 years old now 😅
@@d4a Interesting & informative video as always, i think there's a great future topics that you can cover on the channel such as why modern diesel has a lower cr, solenoid vs piezo injectors (multiple injection pulses, number of holes, injection pressure) and piston bowl shapes in modern diesel. I think it would be awesome if you cover these stuff in the future.
If your planning it, be aware what are the local laws concerning the EGR removal. Here in Finland, a law change will come into effect in 6/2024, that any modifications of EGR/DPF/GPF/AdBlue-systems found out in yearly state inspections will result in 1000-3000€ fine for private vehicles and 20000€-30000€ fine to commercial vehicles. This came into effect because it's relatively common practice for truckers here to remove AdBlue-system due to it failing in winter conditions.
Likely cheaper to pay the fine then constantly repair the Def system. We have had to replace 4 Def pumps, and I can't count how many injectors adding up 20k+ in repairs. Obviously this is heavy equipment, but it remains the same, my old 14 bmw 328d had its Def system go out and it was nearly $4k if it hadn't been under warranty, on top of the egr going out and having to replace the intake manifold. These emission system are costly and are leading to high failure rates.
@@bobhosler2024 Do you think you only get the fine? Those inspection attest that your car is roadworthy, if you fail it (removing the DEF system will most certainly lead to a failed emissions test) mean you won't be able to (legally) drive the car on the road. Yes, the emission systems are costly, but they are just another part of the car that need to work to use the car.
@@kingnull2697 False. You can do whatever to your car and use it, "the government" doesn't care. But the moment you step on public roads, made by that "government", you need to respect its rules, be it traffic laws or safety and emissions standards. If you are unable to, you and your car shouldn't be on the public roads.
Looking at the service information on the RAM ECO diesel engines it still looks like it is worth deleting. First the EGR cooler isn't reliable. Often cracking and leaking coolant into the engine/oil. Then they were having issues with too much soot blocking oil passages in the motor and spinning bearings. They reduced the oil viscosity I believe to help combat this leaving us with few oil options and expensive oil. It likely also increases engine wear as it now runs thinner oil than originally designed for. In the third generation models of this motor I believe they are running the EGR through the DPF before going back into the engine. Allowing it to cool along the way and getting rid of the soot.
It jus sounds like that's an completely shitty designed engine family in general. Soot blocking oil passenges? I mean come on. They forgot to put piston rings in it or what
@@Harry_Gersack I don't know the exact cause as all diesels have soot in the oil. Plus the filter should be getting most of it out. Maybe they previously had a longer service interval too. Then the oil filter finally plugs up and bypasses and soot accumulates. A bigger oil filter would have been the better solution for that, but changing software and the manual is cheaper than a new oil filter housing, so is what they would pick.
@@court2379 I still can't believe that soot causes oil passages to block and engine damage. That's the first and only time I've ever heard that claim. I'm staying with my assumption that these engines are generally a bad design
@@Harry_Gersack I don't think there was anything wrong with the motors until they brought them to the US and added emissions garbage to them. The motor design isn't the problem.
26:24 in my area, easy to sevice = easy to remove. Current production RZ4E engine EGR delete kit here is no more than 30USD, installation of the kit included.
The EGR system on a Kenworth T403 has a replacement cost of AUD5,500. If you get a leak in this system it plays absolute havoc with the engine management system.
One of the bigger issues was not brought up. Exhaust gas restriction in the exhaust manifold. Of course not all cars are the same but there are definitely quite a few that when you remove the EGR pipes from inside the exhaust manifold the engine runs much freer.
As usual, clear succinct and to the point. As a 30 year automotive technician I still came away from your video with additional knowledge. Keep up the good work!
When I had the engine replaced on my 1.8l diesel the mechanic put a blanking plate in the egr to stop it from recirculating he said because it WOULD cause problems in the future. Turns out the car really struggles to heat up the engine especially in the winter without this.
@d4a that's very strange then. 🤔 all I know is that during the winter the engine would not get about 60-70c even during hard driving and it made more of a pain to de-ice the car. After removing the blanking plate it helpes the engine warm up much quicker. I thought this might be done for emissions purposes like warming the engine quicker to help warm the catalytic converter quicker etc.
@@d4a EGR cooler does catch significant amount of heat. Note diesels may never reach operating temperature in city in cold climates. EGR cooler has significant effect on coolant temperature.
seems to be the same story as with emptying or straight piping your exhaust after the most surface level "research" on the most surface level surface of the topic people be like "when i are is make exhaust less resistance it are is make power more" without taking into account that you have to ajust literally everyhing else on the car to account for that
I love this guy. This is exactly the kind of video I want to see on EGR valves. (I've had EGR issues that took me a while to diagnose and fix, but it involved a lot of cleaning and money with new injectors and cleaning a cylinder head, but in the book, it says it improves performance on my TDCi DuraTorq - So yeah, I really want to know what's up from an intelligent, objective perspective)
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Funny, the early period EGR systems usually quit working, when the vehicle was less than 3 years old, but cars less than 3 years old, usually weren't worn out enough to need an EGR system, so EGR systems failed, before they were even needed!
Love It!!
I got a new 5.7 HEMI engine on my CHARGER RT 07. I also bought an eagle 5.7 HEMI intake manifold but it doesnt have EGR so my mechanic couldnt install it (they told me the newest chargers with VVT dont have it). Is that a problem ? Is there a way to have it despite the fact that the intake manifold doesnt take any ? Thanks
@@soufianDEMOShe did you a favor you only need it if you have to get regular legal emissions testing
-stevie wonder
“Sensational”😎
Excellent summary. Note that on modern petrol engines, EGR can be achieved without an EGR valve at all by adjusting valve overlap through the cam timing. There is no EGR valve at all.
Yea but that's a great way to cause detonation
thanks for this. Makes sense now with my old high school car - it had an EGR system and also a ton of negative valve overlap due to cam timing. Incidentally, we (enthusiasts of the 88-91 Honda Prelude) found back in the day that regrinding the cams or using adjustable cam gears to create a few degrees of positive overlap both increased higher RPM power output but also seemed to improve emissions despite blocking off the EGR system. Now it makes sense!
The volvo 5 cylinder petrol engine from ~2000 to 2010 use this exact system, with variable timing on the exhaust cam.
Exactly mate
@@wizard_of_poz4413GreAT wAy to CauASE DetONaTiON .... dude, don't u have 100 octane pump gas at where u live?
I am 82 years old, so I have been around since before all of the emission specs were introduced. Before the positive crank case rules were required, a pipe came out of the crank case which was just open to the air while the engine was running. When the positive crank case rules went into effect, the manufacturers just ran the pipe right back into carburator(sp) which made the engine run poorly.
I recently discovered your channel. Some time back you talked about the belief that "they" don't make cars like they used to. That is absolutly true. A car with a 100,000 mile on it was shot. It was only when the Japanese started importing their cars to America that Detroit started making good quality cars.
I suppose if you are crafty enough, you can replace the road draft tube, to a PCV style and that'd make the engine/oil last longer. Accompanied by a oil catch can.
I'm 27 years old, I also daily drive an antique vehicle while learning all of it's early emissions systems, pretty neat.
Going off tangent here, A few years back, I was taking apart an intake manifold on a 1972? Big block Chrysler.
It had an early EGR, it was clogged with carbon, I surmise highway cruising MPG's fell slightly.
Another manifold I was taking a look at was the EGR port has been closed off with a plug.
Fairly see a few with the EGR ports closed off as it's illegal to modify or change any equipment related to emissions control.
@@reacp9114: Did you even read his comment, dude? He was AGREEING with the video.
@@deusexaethera😂 You can't expect members of a generation that has the attention span of a goldfish to read anything with more than 5 words involved. 😏
@@lilmike2710 Unfortunately, I agree with you. Most people my age believe the news media and think everyone but themselves are idiots.
In the 1960s and 1970s, a used car with 100k miles or 10 years old was not worth buying and ended up being sent to the junkyard.
Today I’m amazed how well some cars run with @200k miles and that people will buy with confidence a used car with that much mileage.
I have been reading and watching videos on EGR deletion after having cleaned my EGR and associated pipes about 2 years ago. What a mess! However, I have been undecided until now on whether to go that route or not. based on your excellent, comprehensive, video I have decided not to go the "EGR Delete" route. Reason being was your comment on having to actually reprogram the ECU as the correct running parameters for the engine are based on there being exhaust gasses present on the inlet side. Don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but what you say, is logical, and puts the whole saga into perspective! Thank you for taking the time to explain this! 👏👏
Modern cars will pull timing automagically (and reduce power btw). It’s the old cars that suffer when you remove a part of the engine that affects timing, and don’t compensate with a timing change.
@@GenoSalvati My vehicle is a 2008, 4th generation Pajero 4M41 3.2 Diesel engine. is that consider new or old?
@@antonymasefield7710 you should try EGR delete, it doesnt cost much. the guy is too using much theory without any experienced
@@GenoSalvati I have a 2008 Pajero with a diesel 4M41 engine. Would that be considered old?😕
@@antonymasefield7710 Not familiar with that model but it probably has an engine computer and knock sensors meaning an EGR delete won’t cause detonation because it will pull timing automatically (and therefore reduce acceleration).
As a diesel mechanic one of the main problems with egrs is the soot build up in the intake manifold and head. I've opened up manifolds that were almost all the way closed off being so clogged with soot. Also have seen major build-up on valves.
Love your videos
Do you know why the EGR system in diesels doesn't tap into the exhaust after the DPF? I'd imagine that should help at least a bit (plus the crank case ventilation oil catch gizmo)
Cat did this, called it "Clean Gas Induction" was a failure. I would like to see a water mixture injection to clean the soot out, like when the egr cooler fails it washes out that soot quite well.@@R1ddic
That’s why you run a water/meth injection system and clean your EGR. Problem solved.
I'm damned sure, if you ask the operators, with the most soot plugging, you will find that they are idleing, almost the same, as they have done, with their pre-EGR engines. They should run APUs, but think that's wrong, that no matter what the engine makers say, 'they are going to do, like they always have'..
Don't worry, the dinosaurs are retiring.
@@camshaftP16 interesting, I'll check that out, thanks!
There's no one I've come across that has the ability to explain mechanical concepts like this guy. Thanks for your insights!
Too bad he completely missed the mark on EGR cooler failure.
Same origin as Nikola Tesla. No wonder. 😉
Take what he says with a grain of salt, i've lost count how many times he's provided false information
@@rosskj9187and you keep coming back for more? 😅
Takes ages to get to the point. Goes on barely related tangents for 10 minutes. And in the end misses the point completely more often than not. Maybe good content for casual doomscroller, but for anyone even slightly technically inclined it's a torture videos.
Bravo!
First-timer (viewer) here and very impressed with your content & presentation.
Great delivery.
As other's have mentioned you sound passionate & educated on the subject matter (fluid non-stop flow) without pandering or getting too deep into personal opinions or sarcasm.
In fact, it's that slight (Med or Mid) accent that makes you come across more as an intelligent/cool professor-type versus the (Exceptional American) smarty-man tellin' ya what you should be doin' if you were smart too.
Again, Bravo and don't change a thing except the next topic!
Cool logo design too!!
I skipped the the EGR delete and went for the full engine delete. Now I Flintstone everywhere
Or how about Ford, they seem to be going down that path too with the Godzilla engine 'deleting' the Powerstroke's :)
You took the Subaru path! Serious weight savings!
Whateva, I'll yabadabadoo what I want.
I tried to do EGR deletes on my diesels, but couldn't find kits for any of my 7.3s so I guess I'm stuck with running them in stock form.
@@DonziGT230 The 7.3's are good motors, take care of them and you shouldn't even need to delete if they're running good. The 6.4's on the other hand...🤑
When I worked as a warranty issue investigation engineer in the powertrain department of a major automotive company (not naming companies because of my non-disclosure agreements), EGR coolers fatiguing and/or burning out and dumping the coolant was a considerable cause of engine failures. A friend who also worked in the same company (actually, in the same two auto companies I've worked for) had the same thing happen to his current vehicle.
Moral of the story: the EGR might not kill the engine, but the EGR cooler will have a go at it instead!
Ford enters the chat
That is a major problem with BMW diesel engines - I believe it took a while to finally get the supplier to manufacture an EGR cooler that would not fail.
Yeah duramax engines have this issue
My 2.0tdi Audi EGR cooler did this. Fortunately no damage. Deleted!
@@mixworks-de Given that BMW only certify parts at homologation and don't have ongoing QC checking on component suppliers, that isn't much of a surprise. The originally tested part may bear little relationship in build quality to the one actually fitted on production lines
Fun fact. I come from the Czech Republic, and here the mighty VW 1.9 TDI engine was incredibly popular (as in most of europe anyway). At this point though vehicles with these engines are now reaching ages of 20+ years. I've seen a couple of videos where they teardown a high milage 1.9, and they deliberately don't clean any of the carbon buildup, because its not rare that that carbon buildup is actually covering and sealing cracks in various parts, that would othervise need replacement.
not real czech
what a cool car part i can't wait to take it off my engine
they intermittently fail and leave you stranded with no power just when you need it most as you go to overtake or pull out into traffic...!!!
Happened to me, nearly had a crash. Happened to my sister, she had a crash.
😂😂
Delete it, but only run it in your closed garage.
The apple seed oil and oil is the best thing I ever bought for a garden and my plants have grown like a million in the last few years so I’m gonna try it again this week to make it look good for my
Old diesel cars with plunger/mechanical injection with EGR placed as an afterthought are often better served with EGR removed. This was the case with my civilian version of a 4x4 military vehicle; emissions were actually reduced.
Great video! You should do one about DPFs at some point, talking about wet vs dry DPFs and different regeneration types, plus the advantages and disadvantages and deleting!
Seconded! I’m pretty sure regen of DPFs is done by running rich which can cause oil contamination due to blow by.
That would be the perfect continuation of this topic.
@@kingGar27 supplemental fuel (active regen) is injected into the exhaust stream, not into the cylinders. I’m a research engineer working in emissions R&D so this stuff is my bread and butter haha
@@kingGar27 Regen of DPF's (at least in the heavy duty diesel world, I'm not too familiar with small diesels) is done by increasing exhaust temp to extreme temps to burn out the soot in the DPF into ash, which can be done in many varying ways. The two main in common use being passively by just running the engine hard, or actively by injecting fuel into the exhaust stream, reacting with the catalyst (DOC) to increase temps and burn out the soot. Most HD diesel engines have a dedicated fuel injector located after the turbo for this purpose. Modern diesel engines with these advanced aftertreatment systems hate being run easy, you really need to load them hard to keep them from having issues.
And scrs
I've watched 43 seconds and am already (and again as in every video) impressed by the way you express yourself. Really well done, this channel. Thank you and keep it up
I was never in favour of removing or disabling EGR valves, but when mine became clogged on my Peugeot 307 2.0Hdi diesel I had no other choice but to block it off as it's placed behind the engine and can't be removed for cleaning without tearing out half of the engine bay. What a terrible design!
It’s designed to clog and fail.
@@tonep3168just like every other “emissions” device
On the hdi is a bitch
On the 2.0L HDi, EGR is a mess. You just have to unplug the depression line on it and put a screw in it. And... voila. That's it. And the turbocharger spools a bit earlier too (200rpm gained) so the torque between 1000 and 2000 rpm is a bit higher, fuel consumption is better too. 👍
(forgive my English, I'm a French dude 😂)
I feel your pain@buildaboiworkshop
As car mechanic nowerdays we repair mostly the exhaust aftertreatment than the engine itself.
Same here, doing construction equipment. Can't count the failed temp or nox sensors etc.
Urea Nozzles, Reduction-Agent Nozzles, Nox Sensors, Particle Filters, EGR-Coolers are the things we replace the most, the EGR itself is the part that fails the rarest. If it does, it usually is cheap aftermarket and a city diesel.
People who regularly drive their diesel on the high ways or rural roads at 50-60 miles will have near zero issues with emission reduction systems caused by soot.
true especially on modern diesels or also direct injection petrol cars. soot is everywhere.
but diesels are especially bad. egr, egr coolers, dpf's, injectors, high pressure pumps and all that crap.
thats why i refuse to buy anything modern. i like my cars running on petrol with port injection. peak engine Design imo.
@@99Lezard99or low pressure injection pump diesels. peak engine design for simplicity and reliability.
Diesel mechanic here, and i woukd partially agree with you. In the early days there were growing pains, but after about 2017 it seems to have smoothed out. But I still do make quite a bit of money on emission systems. Honesty while other shops were deleting everything I was and still am repairing emissions systems. The EPA has cracked down on shops shutting them down so they are having hell trying to learn all the systems which really helps me because I'm well known for emission diagnostics and repair so its really helped my business. Long live emission systems its really supplemented my shops income.
I'm seeing a lot of VW TDI engine imagery in this video. One thing that wasn't touched on at all is the other major contributor of engine oil vapor in the intake tract; the turbo. It's not uncommon for motor oil to accumulate in the turbo plumbing and intercooler from the small amount that seeps past the bearing seals, even on an engine that's working just fine. On my 2005 BHW TDI, this meant that exhaust from the EGR was mixing with that oil and causing MASSIVE amounts of buildup in the intake manifold, especially at the EGR valve. I had to remove both the EGR valve and entire intake manifold and de-gunk them every 40k miles to keep the engine running. It would get so bad that the intake manifold was literally 1/3 its inside diameter inside each runner. Cleaning this gunk off was NOT just a matter of scrubbing with chemicals, it was a very tedious process of first burning it off with a blowtorch (in a very dangerous way) and then chiseling the remainder off. Ultimately, deleting the EGR system proved to be a much better solution. I tried to keep it for years, and I regretted it the entire time.
Don't forget the crankcase breather usually feeds back to the intake, adding more oil vapour to the mix
heck, i liked your video in the intro alone based on how real it is. you don't ask for the like, you ask for an honest review. i like that a lot man.
Found the loser. This is clearly all above your pay grade.
@@Look_What_You_Didragebait
what?@@Look_What_You_Did
@@robertescalante9858 Never knew trolls existed in the online car world, but in an other thread this guy was just as stupid. Probably a bot, damn 2024 world...
I’m a heavy duty diesel technician and I work on Detroit engines. The egr system puts so much soot in the intake hose and intake manifold and clogs a lot of the track up
Detroit peaked with their 2 strokes. Want one in a 70s Pickup truck. retirement project. Turn diesel into noise.
The problem is not the EGR system, the problem is the fuel. Diesel contains paraffin, which burns to produce soot. That soot gets absofuckinglutely everywhere.
@@deusexaethera oh yeah. It’s very dirty. You get soot everywhere
@@partymanau I known it. I work on dd15s mainly and my boss has been working on Detroit’s for 45 years and my co worker says Detroit engines suck and Cummins is better as a joke and he got written up. My buddy isn’t wrong though
@deusexaethera then the fueling isn't correct. You can always run a diesel with a higher air content.
Hypothetically, if I were to know someone who owns a CJAA 2.0 TDI that has had an EGR/DPF/CAT delete... The obvious smoke from the exhaust is now not visible, and fuel economy is up to 50 MPG from 35 MPG because the engine isn't in a constant state of regen. The only apparent drawbacks would be that the engine takes longer to warm up and if it is much below freezing the engine will only maintain about 75% of it's normal engine temperature, but this isn't a problem during driving. The fuel economy gain alone would make one wonder if these deleted systems did more harm than good.
I love your channel and generally find it extremely informative. I will argue the abrasiveness of soot due to being 1/3 the size of the minimum engine clearances through a simple comparison... Have you ever what happens to an engine when someone dumps a tube of lapping compound into the oil? I have. I generally erodes the engine beyond realistic repair.
I have been reading about EGR valves since the 1980s to study for my California Smog technician’s license. This video is by far the most informative and entertaining EGR tutorial.
CAT tried hard not to introduce the EGR. They've invented the ACERT system which sadly didn't work so they went for EGR. And then in 2008 when DPF got mandatory they got out of producing engines for road use because they said the aftertreatment got insane and the reliability will get worse and worse.
Your use of acronyms rendered your post useless.
@@doughamblett5204 i beg your pardon?
@@doughamblett5204 if you are unaware what common knowledge abbreviations regarding what hes mentioning mean, maybe you shouldnt reply to his comment
@@doughamblett5204 I understood it perfectly... what is causing you to not be able to do the same?
Interesting
I had a 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara with the 2.7 liter V6. Seemingly bulletproof all around. I drove it all over Taiwan for years, from the sands of the beach all the way up to the highest parts of the mountains. North to South, West coast to East coast. For years, I never had a single issue with that vehicle. All except the EGR. I had to either replace or clean and reinstall the EGR multiple times. Eventually, I got tired of that and I did an EGR delete. Never had another problem out of that Vitara ever again. Not one single issue.
You can try to justify EGR valves all you want, but in the real world, they suck. I had to pay the annual fuel taxes for the larger 2.7 liter engine (very expensive in Asia) while not getting the full effect of that engine size, thanks to the EGR valve. It simultaneously made the vehicle less fuel efficient. Then, the lack of reliability.
Deleting the EGR valve gave me more power, improved my fuel efficiency, and made my vehicle more reliable.
Note that the newest cars no longer have EGR valves because they same "benefits" can be achieved in other ways (adjusting valve timing, for example).
Also, yes, simply deleting the EGR can increase fuel efficiency and power. For example, the EGR valve does not simply "stop working" all of a sudden like a light bulb going out. The failure process is a long, drawn out process that gets worse over time. Over that period of time, the immediate issue you deal with is vacuum leak in your system, which immediately causes problems in terms of power. Deleting the EGR valve, you immediately remove the vacuum leak. You insure that prolonged vacuum leaks don't have to be factored into the overall performance of your engine, year over year. Which means that you see an immediate, and overall, and a long term increase in power by simply ditching the EGR valve.
I have a Subaru Sambar and the EGR failed, caused a total lack of acceleration after 3rd gear, took me way too long tracing everything to figure it out. Once I found the part was no longer produced and could not obtain a working used one I routed around it and the truck has been running happier ever since. The fact the truck is almost 30 years old also helps since it is exempt from emmisions now.
As a mechanic in USA
Even compared to American full size vehicles…
The grand vitara is a hell of a tough vehicle 💪
I once removed a rear wheel from one of my cars (maybe it was a BatMobile, can’t remember) and it drive great! Better than most cars with 4 wheels! Those stupid manufacturers who turn out expensive 4 wheel vehicles are just ripping us off.
Man, what a thorough walk-through on such a complex issue, yet keeping it digestable and easy to follow. I usually avoid consuming videos of half an hour run time simply because I lost interest or focus along the way, but every material on this channel is captivating 'till the very end. That is valuable (content) -> knowledgebase creation at its finest.
You are the most intelligent, informed and understandable auto presenter on RUclips. Thanks for your time and effort
The fact that he can explain him with his english french accent just shows that hus chise of animation as well as well articulated words are topnotch
He and Jason from RR are the only car enthusiasts I like.
So many are quite frankly dumb, selfish, and a lot of times just ignorant on so many aspects of engineer or science.
So it is nice having videos from a guy who can explain it so well. Who is intelligent. Knows what he is talking about to boot.
One ho isn't like "hurdur delete emission parts, blow coal. I hate EVs as they don't make toddler noises*
It is refreshing. Love the videos. Hope he never changes.
I think you did a pretty good job of covering this topic. For owners, the biggest downside of EGR is maintenance costs, which are high and wil get ever higher over time due to inflation. Also, while perhaps EGR itself isn't as bad as it's sometimes made out to be, EGR is only one component of the overall engine emission system, which includes many components, all of which significantly increase the price of a new vehicle and also require lifetime maintenance that increases over time. I have a family member who owned a VW diesel (Jetta) which he bought new. The DPF failed and the replacement was very expensive. He did a DPF delete and also deleted other emission components. The car got much better mileage, had much more horsepower and significantly reduced maintenance costs. If there is no DPF and EGR, they don't have to be replaced. Another family member had a Mercedes diesel (W164), which over the years of ownership the emissions system required thousands of dollars of maintenance, by far the worst of which was the urea tank, which is a known problem. It was a very expensive part and it was very expensive to replace. After the third time it failed, they ended up selling the vehicle, but before selling it, they looked closely at removing all of the emissions components. The one-time cost to remove all of the unreliable complexity would have saved thousands of dollars of future maintenance.
His fantasy is based in theory, not the real world. EGR is shit. Doesn't lower emissions. It's a scam being forced upon us. There are other methods to get the emissions results but it's not a negotiation, it's a mandate from politicians who get paid to vote a certain way.
Often the dpf fails because the car is never driven fast so the filter cant burn itself free.
Yes but you are polluting your air, that's not that great too. I mean it's not a good solution
My dad thought about deleting a EGR system on a Toyota LC 200. Ended up deleting the whole Land Cruiser and bought a new 4.6L gasoline V8 instead
So he went "select all"
Yea? Did he get a non- pi head, or a pi head 4.6L?
ford V8?
Your father traded a Truck for an Engine?
I wish you the best. You are at a distinct disadvantage.
Same thing happened my father. Car that would just work many years longer went directly to scrapyard, just because repetive EGR fails. He never bought diesel again.
Love the video. Well done as always.
To your point on carbon deposits. I am not a proponent of deleting EGR systems, but I also know of more than one "deleted" diesel engine that has clear oil at its service intervals. That's something I've always found notable.
To your point on reliability, here in the States we see high failure rates of EGR related components within the first (non-leased) ownership. Coolers, sensors, and valves on modern light and medium duty truck engines are well known to encounter problems within the first 30-60k miles. That's notable since many of these owners put on between 15k and 40k miles/year. These repairs, depending on the engine, can range from a few hundred bucks to upwards of 3-4k dollars. The cost and perceived unreliability are the major contributors for the folks I encounter to delete those systems.
A large part of your problem is related to the captive USA market (chicken tax!) not encouraging makers to do a better job
There's a reason USA cars don't sell well outside North America - they're simply nowhere near as good as the competition and represent a very poor value for money proposition
@@alanbrown397 Other than Ram, Ford, and GM, who makes a truck with a turbo diesel that'll reliably tow 15klbs trailers?
@@scottleggejr pretty much noone since in any reasonable country you would need a commercial licence for that, and lets be honest most people dont tow
@einar8019 you obviously don't know much about the world then. I haul furniture, building supplies, dirt, metal scrap, garbage, boats, campers, etc. on a regular basis. It is NOT for commercial use only, but a multitude of uses. A large semi/lory truck is far too impractical for many of the uses that the pickup truck is designed for. I know of pickup engines that have failed within 300k due to emissions systems failing and personally know of several well over 900k with zero engine problems with the poorly designed emissions systems removed. Wish we could have it all, but unfortunately, that's not the case.
Super video. We once had a 1997 Opel Astra Station, 1.6 l. 16V, bought in 2000 with 41.500 kms ODO. At 50.000 kms the EGR valve was blocked, and at 90.000 kms again. The engine wouldn't run in both cases. Both repairs were very costly (official dealer), but because I had a warranty agreement it didn't cost me a cent. But the unreliability made me sell it.
Thank you for the video. I'm from Russia, sorry for my speech. We have the same problem in our country. There are a lot of people who remove the EGR system. I completely agree with everything you said!
But I want to complement the words. Oil vapors that arise in the EGR system also lubricate the upper compression ring, so you can’t put the oil in the trash. The engine warms up faster due to the heat exchanger/ radiator EGR. The radiator cools the gases, but during a cold start the gases heat up the cooling system fluid. Deposits in the intake manifold do not affect the power of a diesel engine so much if they do not clog the channel at all. I have a 2013 Mitsubishi L200, diesel, common rail, the EGR system has not been removed, it has driven 320,000 km. At 290,000 km. Cleaned the intake manifold and EGR for the first time! I work as an auto mechanic, mainly repairing engines, and it is very difficult to explain to clients about the negative effect of removing the system. All people who want to delete are deceived and do not want to hear the opposite opinion. Good luck BRO! 👋👋👋
Do they sell the Pajero Sport there? I have a 2021 model, which has the 4N15 engine, the same as the newer Triton/L200. I'm considering turn off EGR. As the car sometimes feels very sluggish and the engine sounds louder than usual. Not sure if this is when the EGR is working to let exhaust gas in the intake 🤔
@@tuan.hoang_that's not the EGR causing that. It's actually the exhaust filters (dpf) going through a cleaning cycle. You can turn off dpf regen with a delete tune and then get rid of the exhaust filters.
@@tomtom1541 my pajero sport doesn't have dpf. It's euro 4 standard.
@@tuan.hoang_ that's surprising, your car was also sold in Europe and Australia with a dpf. Usually your EGR is always working once the engine is warm, unless you floor the accelerator. But you could check this using a scan tool to see if it's open or closed.
@@tomtom1541 yeah depending on the market but the 2021 model in my country doesn't have dpf, only since 2022+ models starting to have dpf due to regulations require Euro 5. I just did a full exhaust straight from turbo down to the rear end. The car feels a lot better, before I just had a tune with stock hardware and it felt like something was holding back. The EGR is next on my checklist, not sure if that's the right thing to remove.
The petrol MITSUBISHI Evo X does EGR without an external valve. It uses exhaust cam timing to leave the cylinders partially full of exhaust ready for the next combustion.
The Bentley W12 engine (2003 introduction onwards) does it without an egg valve also - using valve timing and overlap instead
Its called 'internal EGR', and is very widely used in adjustable camshaft engines.
My 2002 Prius does that too because it has continuously variable valve timing.
In Ohio you can delete everything.
And register it as an antique and never have any sort of inspection again.
‘Mercia
@@aspecreviewsdid you know in. Japan they sold your car as a plug in hybrid?
You are my new hero. Thank you for the very intresting and useful information. I am an auto electrician and can add that if someone chooses to simply block off the EGR pipe on any modern car without reprogram the ECU pretty soon the engine light will come on and some cars will even go into limp mode, as the system monitors MAF so error codes will pop up
Worth noting that Scania has Euro 6 compliant engines with no EGR and just their dual SCR system which has better fuel economy due to that apparently, along with not needing an EGR cooler anymore which is good for removing a potential point of failure that's kind of annoying to get to. Really the big problem with emissions equipment in general is that people don't understand how they work and how they affect performance (which for any exhaust treatment system is 0 when properly sized) which leads to people doing dumb stuff because they think running a much richer AFR with the stock DPF is completely fine and totally won't fill the filter material with unburnable ash twice as fast rendering the filter useless until cleaned or replaced.
Edit: forgot to mention that you can technically delete your PCV system if you run a dry sump. The scavenge pumps will pull a pretty decent partial vacuum on the crankcase and other than sucking out all the oil, before that oil goes to the main oil pump to be recirculated the blow-by gases are separated and fed to the exhaust system. Dry sumps also reduce pumping losses via the crankcase vacuum so you'll also liberate some power if you switch to one, sometimes over 20hp depending on engine which is about as much as a very well engineered intake system (given no engine remap after replacing the entire intake system); if the almost total elimination of any oil starvation risk wasn't a good enough sell for you.
This is why they also delete the DPF along with EGR, thats the first thing any balkan mechanic will do.
@@cathat9622 DPF deletes are probably more common than EGR deletes though as a lot of cars don't implement the regen cycles well or just end up clogging the filter because people drive 10 minute stints which aren't even close to long enough to burn off the soot in the filter. It's annoying for people who don't have any option other than driving those short distances but depending on where you live you should really replace those 10 minute journeys with public transit if possible and drive for fun or when you need to do longer trips. Most effective way to reduce traffic and you don't have to drive on annoying main streets where half the people are angry enough to kill a toddler or too busy looking at their phones to focus on driving. Plus if the city government isn't stupid public transit will be faster than driving anyway even if just to encourage people who don't want to be driving in the first place to take the bus.
It makes sense to delete emissions equipment on some show vehicles though. They do affect sound and let's be honest, your straight piped Scania V8 that get's driven 2000km a year to shows and almost nothing else is probably less damaging to the environment than the guy who drives his stupid SUV around the city for 25000km a year, plus diverter valves exist :).
yeah getting rid of EGR entirely has been a huge talking point with commercial diesel engines in recent years
I think Cummins has an aftertreatment system aswell that makes EGR redundant
I was wondering when this was going to start happening, EGR and DPF are a bad mix with how much extra soot EGR makes, and any EGR issues quickly develop into severe DPF clogging if action isn't taken in a timely manner. I figured there was a reason why SCR wouldn't be able to pick up the slack, maybe just the size of the catalyst needed is holding this back, but here in the USA we don't have any new diesel trucks that don't come with EGR. Hopefully we start to see this soon, if it becomes a popular setup in Europe I'm sure Detroit Diesel (Daimler) will implement it here eventually.
Diesel engines don't gain as much power from a "dry sump" system owing to a generally lower operating RPM. Windage losses go up on the square of RPM, so the higher the engine revs, the more benefit from a dry sump system.
My question is, would a dry sump system help reduce carry-over of oil vapor and mist, through the crankcase decompression system? If it helps, that would make dry sump well worth doing!
On my 1998 suzuki vitara, i just cleaned the whole egr system. I observed much better MPG but I did other maintenance work as well.
Thanks for your informative video and for convincing me to delete my cars EGR.
We had a 1973 Ford wagon with 400 CID engine. The EGR was an add-on system with a plate right under the carburetor. The EGR aluminum eroded and caused two fires. Both needed the plate replaced.
I wish he had spent more time on these older systems and gas systems, also, how is just leaving it clogged any different from deleting it?
That's just galvanic corrosion. As the egr devise was definitely cast iron.
Yep. Galvanic corrosion.
Very interesting approach, this « displacement reduction system ».
A problem (wether it comes with the EGR or the PF) is manufacturers do not warn users about the way to manage this.
Many people sell their car because they get rid of alerts, and EGR or mass airflow sensors malfunctions, when it’s just that the PF failed to achieve its regeneration properly.
I work in automotive engine R&D and I'm very happy to see a fact based video on EGR for once. Very good content!
Hopefully you now Understand how Big Deception this "egr" valve really is.
R&D? So could you then say why they don't just take the exhaust gasses after the DPF to remove the soot particles so nothing's going to clogg up?
@@nirfz I don't work in Diesel development but my guess is that you want the high pressure EGR and not low pressure after the turbo and DPF. If you don't have a certain pressure gradient between EGR gas and intake manifold you drastically reduce your possible EGR rate.
@@Dan_Divebomb But the pressure difference between before the DPF and after only differs by max 0.3 bar from what i have been shown at full throttle and way less than that at mid and low throttle. (collegue of mine has the measurings of his few years old Diesel engine because of the DPF having been in question of being full with ash or not.) That would be enough to not work?
I have read that the 1.6 diesel from Renault, Mercedes uses in some applications (modified from the Renault startingpoint) does use the EGR after the DPF, but i never found any source about any other engine doing that, hence trying my luck with you with my question.
@@nirfz well the keyword is 'before turbo' :)
In my department we start activating EGR when the exhaust pressure is about 50mBar higher than intake manifold pressure. That's why you need high pressure before the turbine wheel reduces it.
And as the DPF ages the pressure difference increases and reduces EGR rate which is another reason not to do it that way. There are some applications where low pressure EGR is used but then it's returned to the intake before the compressor wheel of the turbo. I'm not quite sure what the benefits of that are except maybe for a more homogeneous distribution in the air and possibly a more even distribution among the cylinders if the mixer of egr and fresh air is not sufficiently good.
PCV vent to atmosphere and EGR delete 😂
I was trying to not doing the above, until I overhaul my own diesel car engine...
it just a mess on my intake valve, intake manifold... most important the EGR actuator is full of carbon deposits as well :(
on a petrol car it is normally drawing a vacuum? ie junk into the engine if to atmosphere?
@@roberts8783 Dumbest thing I've read in the comments so far...
@@roberts8783 POSITIVE Crankcase Ventalation valve.
I'd like to see videos on the subsequent DPF (which is seen as a burden on diesels) and DEF/AdBlue systems (which require you to buy urea fluid for it).
This video is well-presented and detailed, giving me a different perspective on EGR systems.
I wonder if newer EGR systems take exhaust gases from after the DPF or if that's impractical.
Thank you for educating me about EGRs.
The more I watch your videos, the more I'm impressed with your delivery.
Taking on a highly controversial subject and kudos to you for doing so. As a mechanic I have had many frustrating moments working on those systems, however they were an important step in clean air. Modern petrol engine rarely have an EGR due to use of variable cam timing. Of course diesels engines still have these but it's just a part of the maintenance of the vehicle. The people that have the most problems are the ones who use tuners to roll coal and they deserve it anyway. Emissions can be a pain but I remember driving into cities like Denver Co or LA in the 90s and compare that to now. There is visibly much less smog than there was back then. Learn how to take good care of your vehicle and maintain it and you will have fewer t problems.
Thank you for being a reasonable mechanic. Every other mechanic I now or have argued with on the internet is just a complete moron when it comes to emission reduction systems. I don't how many times I've tried to explain to fellow technicians that egr alone is not what clogs up your intake but the introduction of oil vapors. With d4a I'm happy to now have a respected person to quote.
Seriously, I thought i was the only mechanic who wants to breathe clean air/cares a little about the environment.. props to you my man
@@Harry_Gersack you as well sir. I'm reality when you look at all the regulations that must be completed with our modern emissions systems are quite impressive on how well they work as well as their robustness.
@@curtisroberts9137 thx. I've actually haven't had that much problems with these systems. Of course if one fails they are usually hard to get to, but it's not like I jave to repair them day in day out
@@Harry_Gersack maybe your location? I'm in the salt belt and we also have a lot of gravel roads. The corrosion and dirt are very hard on evap and some other systems.
@@curtisroberts9137 I'm from Germany, we have lots of salt on the roads where I live. So also lots of corrosion on body and frame. But gravel roads are very rare here, so maybe it is because they rarely see dusty air that many engine components last longer?
But I'd say it depends mainly on the makes and models I'm working on. (Almost exclusively european and japanese cars) I'm guessing they put more effort in designing emissions related parts because they know they have to last longer. You have to do an emissions test every two years with the inspections, otherwise your "operating permit" for the vehicle expires. You can't just do an egr delete, decat or sth like that
I think a good addendum to this video would be the comparison of EGR's efficacy versus water and water/methanol injection as a mechanism to reduce air charge temperatures to lower NOx.
I ran a 1971 chevy pickup with water methanol injection & air to water intercooler which pumped cold water through the repurposed egr ports. It ran great for 28 years in a row.
people complain about, having to have another thing to fill up would make people even more mad
We have a 1973 Mustang Convertible that was literally stored in a barn for over 40 years, after its owner who bought it in 1973 got very ill and passed away just over a year later. When we purchased it the odometer showed an original reading of just a little over 19,000 miles. Thee engine ran great, the automatic transmission works properly, and the engine is still in nearly the same clean, untouched condition as it was when it was new, other than a few oil and filter changes and a tune up that was done long ago.
The 1973 Ford 302 2v engine came with an EGR valve, in an early attempt to reduce NOx emissions. Soon after purchasing the Mustang I began to look it over, and I tested the EGR by applying vacuum to its actuating diaphragm with a vacuum testing unit, mostly to see if the disphragm was leaking or not. No leaking, but at idle as I opened the EGR valve a little the engine began to run rough, so I knew the flow of exhaust gas was not being obstructed (which I felt it would not have been with so few miles anyway). On a lark I decided to leave the vacuum hose detached from the EGR valve so I could drive the car and see if a slight hesitation coming off idle, at light throttle would go away (in some engines back in the early days of EGRs the EGR valve opening too much or too soon would cause a sudden stumble and degradation of smooth performance). Nope, the hesitation was exactly the same as when the EGR was connected. Okay, so I figured it is obviously not causing a problem with engine performance, it does help quench the temperature of combustion, and helps reduce the propensity for engine pinging. So I reconnected it, and rechecked the accerlerator pump, which was working just fine.
I difured the only other thing that might be causing this slight off idle hesitation in acceleration might be a low carburetor float level. So, I odrered a carburetor rebuild ki, removed the carburetor, and found it had been rebuilt, or at least opened up, previously (I knwq htis because the Power Valve was double gasketed, not a manufacturing error). Also, the float level was set about 1/4" too low, which would definitely be enough of a problem with fuel being sucked into the carburetors throat because the fuel level in the venutri fuel pickup tubes would be lower than expected, and air coming into the carburetor throat would get the needed fuel from the venturi would be slightly delayed, resulting in a lean Air/Fuel ratio bog or hesitation. I know back in the 60s and 70s some folks felt lowering the float level would save on gasiline by causing the engine to run leaner. Well, perhaps it would make some little bit of difference, but I was more concerned with the smooth operation of the engine and not having a needless hesitation coming off idle. So I reset the float level to its proper valve, installed a new Power Value, using only one of the two gaskets in the rebuild kit, cleaned all the air and fuel passageways, reassembled the carburetor, and once the engine was running long enough to attain its normal operating temperature I adjusted the idle, the idle A.F mixtrue, the high speed choke cam RPMs, and double checked the ignition initial timing value.
On the next road test the carburetor work beautifully. No more off idle hesitation, and that was with the EGR connected. Now, three years later I come across this video and feel good about my decision to leave the EGR connected and functional. The engine runs fine. I have not one complaint or gripe about it or its performance - which is not an asphalt chewing level of performance with a simple 302 2v engine. It is enough engine to have some fun scooting around. It is not intended to be a street racing monster, especially with its steep rear axle ratio gears witting at 3.0:1. No, this is more of a cruising machine, and it does that very nicely.
Kudos for a brilliant look at what EGR systems do, how, and why.
Thanks for explaining this topic so well ! I have a diesel car, bmw e46 3 liters, 6 cylinders, 22 years old, 460000 kms, still with the EGR (easily accessible) with pneumatic command… I thought I would remove it but I did not and now I’m glad I still have it.
I removed it once to replace it, but after cleaning with petrol (and a toothbrush) I put it back, the new one is still in the box, probably I’ll never use it !!
To bad he is so wrong
@@mblake0420How so
i had a vw polo sdi 1999 and removed the egr and the butterflyvalve. the egr was cloged up and the intake manifold as well, cleaning it increased the performance..back to what it once was ;)
knowing what i know now (thanks to you) i would have cleaned it and left it active.
but i think my 1984 jetta doesn't have egr..so nothing to worry about than.
thanks for schooling us
Thanks for another informative vid. I blanked off the EGR valve on my 2005 2.5l, five cylinder VW T5. I didn't notice anything other than fuel consumption improving slightly. This was proven by my fuel consumption records over ten years (same 3000 km journey, same vehicle, six times a year during similar dates). The fuel consumption went back to normal after a while and I found that the aluminium blanking plate that I'd made and installed had burnt through.
It's a real shame that these devices are causing engines' service life to be reduced, now that manufacturers have learnt how to make the rest of the engine last.
As always, you explain complex issues in a easy to understand way. That's a not so common gift 🙂
The thing with soot build up is that eventually, it leads to oil lines obstruction. I work in a specialized turbo shop, and one of the main reasons for them to fail is oil contamination and deficient lubrication.
Thanks for the info. Been turned off of EGRs after watching Junkyard Digs pull apart a V8 with just the first four cylinders coated in carbon.
I thought that was more from the auto-start-stop function: As far as i remember beign told, if you shut down the engine while the turbo is really hot, it makes the oil burn inside the oil lines of the Turbo and crystalize what's in it. So reving the engine high and then shutting it off (like many like to do to show off) or the constant start stop in city traffic would be the killers of a Turbo then.
@nirfz that is also true. When you turn off the engine, the oil leaving the turbocharger slows down almost getting stuck in it. If the turbo is too hot from being abused or from a long trip, the oil gets cooked and eventually damages the turbo bearings and rotor. In normal city use (when auto stop function is more commonly used) it isn't a problem. Also soot from the engine clogs variable geometry systems, making them fail. Not a catastrophic failure, but you need to open the turbo and clean it.
@@matiasnruffa Thanks!
@@matiasnruffa Is waiting a minute to 2-3 minutes before shutting down the vehicle long enough to prevent any turbo damage after a long trip?
EGR, Direct Injection, PCV system that allows oil fumes to get sucked back through the throttle body/intake and gumming up the intake valves as well as lowering the effective octane rating. Low tension piston rings, particulate filters, catalytic converters and finally extended oil change intervals, ALL contribute to slowly suffocating and destroying an engine.
Most engines from the 1970's and 80's were more fuel efficient, size for size! LOL.
🛑You are making damn good videos and it makes me happy to see you have a good number of subscribers now 🙂 🛑
This is by far the best YT channel when it comes to actual science. EGR is also important for DPF regeneration cycles. So if you remove the EGR, the DPF burn cycles might not work as they should and as a end result, might clog the DPF.
it's actually the exact opposite. Egr feeds the dpf soot. without it and with a nice tune, the car can actually work with the dpf without blowing up the engine.
I think you are right. The EGTs would be higher, permitting easier passive regen cycles@@spiki_x6863
@@spiki_x6863 Correct, I had the EGR deleted on my car. My distance between regens increased from 366 miles to 2,000 miles. I had less soot and better Fuel Economy. Also my car had the SCR system which consumed more DEF to lower NOx.
Where i am from If you are getting rid of the egr the dpf filter also leavnig with it, it is just a 10,000 dollar liability. It is leaving with it for cost of maintenance and safety some people i know have had to put out fires stated by regens
EGR also dramatically speeds engine warmup.
Did I get that right?
The EGR allows to mix exhaust gases with fresh air/fuel mixture. That is, an open EGR reduces the level of air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber, meaning there is less energy for combustion, therefore it becomes less hot and finally NOx emissions improve as a result. Correct?
If so, then the EGR does nothing but control volumetric efficiency. Still correct?
But what's the difference to the throttle body then? I can get the same effect by having a half open throttle, can't I? Well, of course at the cost of increased pumping losses. But would that justify an EGR (which has some disadvantages on its own, too)?
I'm no expert and because you're mentioning "throttle body" I assume you are talking about petrol engines:
By closing the throttle you are "breaking" with your engine. The EGR allows you to make less power in cruising conditions by effectively lowering the cylinder volume (and therefore injecting less fuel) while keeping the throttle position open.
@@helge000 Thanks for your answer. Yes, that makes sense. But again, while you avoid pumping losses using an EGR on the one side, you're adding all those disadvantages mentioned in the video on the other. All for the sake of reducing pumping losses... right?
some have effect on air/fuel mixture, some do not , so its a horses for courses sort of thing, even after this im gonna delete the erg
It lowers the percentage of oxygen of the mixture in the cylinder, the throttle controls the amount of mixture, not the oxygen percentage.
@@SuperDirk1965 Thanks. Could you give more details?
It lowers the percentage of oxygen in the mixture. Got it. That is, if you wanna keep stochiometry, then lower percentage of oxygen means lower percentage of fuel. Right?
So then I'd still say that I can achieve the very same by closing the throttle. No? I understand that this would be at the cost of efficiency (due to pumping losses). But other than that?
This is simply the best cars/engines channel on the whole web. Everywhere else are speaking half true either because they don't understand the logic and principle of working parts and systems or because they are paid to promote something. I recomend all my car interested friends as a must channel!
By far the best technical automotive channel on RUclips. Well done!
My 89 460 has the EGR blocked off because my aftermarket EFI install book instructed me to do so. It doesn't have any way of properly utilizing the EGR system or compensating for it so it had to go. My goal was to build a powerful engine for pulling trailers which is what I did and MPG was extremely low on the list of concerns. That being said it is good to know how that system actually operates.
Nothing burns cleaner than an engine that is tuned and breathes properly. Egrs and emissions are just a way of politicians to scam everyone over climate change.
The fuel injected 460's were capable of pretty good mileage with all the emissions stuff removed. I regularly got 14 mpg with my F250.
The analyze of each technology and the way you explain and communicate your knowledge is out of this world! Please continue your incredible work!
I did the oil catchcan and egr delete for N47 engine. The egr is still present with a plate on the exhaust post. In the ECU i just set the air to exhaust set to 100% air, so the system would not want to open anyway.
I did this because of high milage and when i did some massive overhauling (removed the engine, changed timing chains, cleaned injectors (since they were out anyway), and after cleaning the intake.. man i have nightmares still. )
Also the catchcan just breathes into the air.
Now distance between regens of DPF is longer
Theoretically it means it runs hotter.. but the cooling system should keep up, as it was designed to keep up even at 100% load with no EGR anyway.
It also improves emmisions from the periodic techicval inspections (MOT) point of view that is measuring the opacity of the exhaust gases (for diesel).. so removing EGR improves the opacity test.
The only thing a goverment should do is to maintain the limits not only for the manufacturares but for techincal inspections as well with more toleranhce with respect to age.. some formula or something. As soon as the MOT/or whatever is called will check NOx concetration in diesel engines, then the egr's will be no longer deleted (in theory).
Measuring NOx is tricky. At high loads NOx is greatest and no EGR. So weather the EGR is deleted or not, it will should roughly get the same value. The real NOx increase is at partial loads. It could be done.. to make a test of diesels not at full rpm but partial loads. Partial loads can be hard to reproduce and is a function of the load not just the rpm in neautral.. so equiping MOT station with dynos is not feasable.
The opacity of the exhaust at least checks for major faults (like leaky injectors that will be a soot machine, or blown turbo seals that spews oil in the dpf and intake causing massive amounts of soot and black smoke) and if the ecu values/sensors/formulas are not messed up and still provides accurate burn control
I've heard there are some checks to see if EGR is still present at MOT.. mine is still present. And it can be reactivated with ease if needed. For now it remains deactivated for me.
Where i live the exhaust gasses were measured every year as part of the road worthy check and deleting the EGR or DPF would mean to not pass the tests. (the emission ratings the car has to achieve depend on when the car-engine combination was registered to be on the market by the manufacturer. So a 20 year old car does not need to fullfill EU6 but what was the norm back then...)
Thing is, that exhaust check is nowadays done via onboard diagnosis and not via measuring sensor in the exhaust anymore. (as modern cars conveniently present the numbers for the workshop) And that's how some people get away with those deletes where i live.
At least until they get checked by police at some point (or they are lucky and don't). But the risk is there with DPF deletes, as cars start to smoke black that shouldn't. And they do check by measuring, and if they find a DPF delete, the car is off the road and it gets expensive.
@tomr6955 EGR isn't open at 100%. It's not "moral" it's technical.
For example, in CRDi engines, the EGR valve is opened to up to 1800 revs/min. By blanking the valve, you improve acceleration from lover revs (you do not strangle your engine) and decrease turbo lag (better airflow)
I've taken college courses on modern engine management and this is a far better, more concise explanation than I've ever heard about EGR.
If you do delete the PCV and add a catch can, they make them now to automatically drain back into the oil pan like the turbo drain. Killer video bud always enjoy the uploads. Keep rocking🤘🤘
Yeah, only if it didn't drain water back in too. Else it would be most wicked mods money can buy
@@calvinnyala9580That would be a problem only with short drives. A good long drive brings the oil temp above 100 C and all of the water evaporates.
@@pecata01yeah but would you look into your catch can to make sure there is no water in there before you start to drive to make sure?
i wouldnt. just empty it from now and then and its fine.
yes, alot of humidity gets caught in the catch can, so if you just bring it into the oil pan, it will most likely cause issues down the line.@@99Lezard99
Do not use these cans. You will dilute your oil with water and fuel on a daily driver and on a race vehicle just do the maintenance lol
My egr valve works flawlessly sitting on my shelf as a paper weight
My PCV valve is a hose going to my post turbo exhaust venturi
@@MichaelBrown-wx6zq as long as you know for a fact there is always going to be suction there it sounds like a good idea
🤡
My EGR valve works flawlessly, because I clean it regularly and since I’m not from Scotland, I buy better diesel fuel…eh?
Kiss my kilt!
Volvo D5 E3 engine here with 230,000 miles on it. Last year I cleaned the EGR and intake of all soot. It took about three hours all in. No reason to delete it. Great video, thanks for a proper, fact based explanation.
Excellent point about pvc vapor combining with egr soot
Catch can is an option, so is venting to atmosphere, thus removing the sticky nature and keeping the intake clean on direct injection
Venting to atmosphere is going to dirty the oil faster. Typically the PCV has a source of fresh air from before the throttle body, then it pulls vacuum on the crank space when it's working after the throttle body. Usually they are on opposite ends of the engine, so the clean air has to pass through the entire crank volume to get to the suction port. That means the crank space air volume is replaced by fresh air so it's all clean. If you vent to atmosphere the only thing replacing the air in the crank space is more dirty blowby forcing the lingering dirty blowby out the vents, so there will always be dirty combustion byproducts hanging out and eventually settling into the oil.
@@pontiacg445 dirty oil is due to carbon getting past the rings, not clean air
@@pontiacg445This is why if you decide to vent into atmosphere you should install a filter into the hose. Granted it becomes yet another thing that you have to clean or swap periodically but at least your engine now inhales clean, oxygen rich air rather than the hot, oily air that is devoid of oxygen. External breather is a performance mod of sorts, a small one but measurable.
@@pontiacg445 you dont really understand how engines work, sorry. Venting to atmosphere is literally venting the shit that ends up absorbed in the oil.
Atmosphere is the only solution.
Never enjoyed a truck more than when I deleted the EGR, DPF, and DEF systems along with a PCV reroute to the atmosphere. The Duramax engine is custom tuned properly to account for the changes, providing maximum reliability and longevity. Normal car people wouldn't understand, but very common in the HD truck world. Great video!
Routing the breather to atmosphere- instead of using the intake air to draw it out …
Literally loses free horsepower.
@@fastinradfordable didn’t ask, and it’s turbo charged diesel so no difference
If the government says not to do it while doing it to their Diesels then you made the smart choice.
@@fastinradfordablego look up the problems related to crank case filter on any 2011 and up diesel. There's absolutely no power retention by leaving it on. Some of the manufacturers have new pass through filters but it doesn't provide any added power on a diesel.
Had the EGR valve break on my old mid/late 90s Vauxhall Astra. My dad looked online and then took the EGR valve off cut out the side of a Coke can as a blanking plate, screwed it back together and all was good until i eventually scrapped the car maybe 10 years (and maybe a hundred thousand miles!) later!
We did try cleaning prior to this. It was stripped off and taken apart as much as possible, cleaned with a brush and then soaked in cleaner overnight. It was still @#£%ed though, hence the Coke blanking. But this was an early EGR.
@@davekennedy6315Having the same experience, blanked my Astra G X16SZR and since then all engine lights regarding the egr system stopped and carbon build up stopped being a issue. Before it required cleaning frequently and caused loads of issues!
@SemiGamerNr ridiculous aren't they! At the time Vauxhall were actually selling an EGR blanking kit (a blanking plate and supposed ECU chip) and I was reading people on early forums having this issue repeatedly with BRAND NEW cars with low mileage, hence the kit being offered.
Very good explanation of the EGR. Almost the first thing I did when I bought my 1986 Grand National was delete the EGR and have the chip burned to disable it. Now the EGR on my 86 is completely gone. There is a blockoff plate on the manifold where the EGR valve was located. I initially milled the EGR tower off my upper plenum and it was milled off the lower intake manifold when I had my stock heads ported and my lower intake port matched to the heads. Not only that the plumbing in the stock lower intake has had the EGR opening welded shut. Here recently I just purchased a PCV catch can and a catch can for removing the residue coming out of the valve covers. Knowing what I know now, I should have just put a couple of catch cans and keep the EGR system functional. On my 86 Grand National, it was really easy to remove and clean. Buy a new EGR gasket and put it back on. In some states, maybe only California, vehicles still have to have their emissions certified, even 1986/87 Grand Nationals so the EGR can't be deleted and people who live in that state have lived with them and probably realized that they didn't effect peak power anyway.
You're way better off with it deleted
Really appreciate your well thought out approach, very informative and I keep learning so much from your work. Congratulations
Do you now Understand how Big the Egr Deception is ?
I've watched a number of your videos now. I just wanted to say thank you. I think you're one of the best educators out there in RUclips land. Fascinating stuff!!
I daily drive a turbo diesel hiace 1KD or 1KZ ?. At about 200K it was doing 4-5 dpf burns per tank fill and i was lucky to get 560Km's. EGR and DPF delete plus an economy tune has improved the range to 670+ Km's. Full service is done at 10K and never skimped on. Indicated average fuel economy has improved from 9.6 to 8.1 l/100 and it will take some time to recover the cost of the tune up in fuel savings but i have no regrets although the exhaust fumes are much stronger now...
Love you channel.
maybe the economy tune that improve your range not the egr + dpf delete.
@@SheetFiber Absolutely no doubt the tune up has improved the fuel economy.
I'm a simple man, i see 0 seconds of any D4A video, i like
Replace simple for dumb and you got it right.
I'm a complicated man. I make him earn my like. He always earns a like, but I still watch the video first.
@Look_What_You_Did who shit in your cereal this morning babe?
@@ddegn Now that I can respect.
I have been wrenching on all types of cars for 30 years. I enjoy watching explanation videos even though 99% of the time I already fully understand exactly how and why a particular system works. So I don't often learn much if anything from videos like this. But I did today. I've known exactly HOW an EGR worked for years. But I didn't realize until watching this that while I mostly understood the "why" I actually didn't FULLY understand the WHY. Outstanding video, also I just realized I wasn't sub'd to the channel... I am now.
On some engines, EGR is used to control exhaust temperatures. Overheated and failed exhaust valves and warped exhaust manifolds can occur if you have one of these engines and the EGR system doesn’t work. Typically high output natural gas engines do this, and I’ve seen a number of engines damaged in this way.
Modern turbo gas engines rely on cooled EGR to achieve the power and fuel economy that they do. Kind of a shame it wasn’t discussed.
@@DOAHunt3r Cooling has fck all to do with "power" or "economy". It is required to reduce NOx.
@Look_What_You_Did cooling allows an engine to run at higher rpms without shearing pistons but I guess simpletons like you don't think beyond trying to prove your shallow points and being mad
@@Ramonatho Sheering pistons... Oh that's epic. You are one of those ignorant internet types.
@@Look_What_You_Did Your information is wildly out of date. Go look up a Mazda 2.5L Skyactiv-G Turbo. They use cooled EGR to keep the engine from knocking under boost at high RPM. That combined with direct injection is how they're getting 10.5:1 compression out of them despite running 20 psi of boost. Even a Toyota Prius relies on cooled EGR to run 14:1 compression on 87 octane. This stuff is all over SAE journals.
Here yo go again, taking something I have a surface-level understanding of, and digging far, far deeper :D
I never really understood the supposed benefits of an EGR delete, so thanks for clarifying that it's basically nothing!
It really is fascinating all these little tweaks and modifications manufacturers need to do in order to follow regulations (at an immense cost in R&D, I am sure). Kinda makes you understand why VW decided "screw this, we're cheating on the tests", a few years back :D
In a parallel to this, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the modern diesel-specific emissions stuff like AdBlue and DPF, those are also vilified by tuners, is it also just a story to get money from owners, or is there some truth to it?
Anything that helps the environment is vilified by tuners.
They want people behind their cars to choke on as much toxic fumes as possible.
In my country narrowminded people brag about the systems they fit to pass emissions, that can be turned off afterwards.
Actually, by the logic EGR has to improve fuel efficiency on a not-fully-opened throttle aka idling and cruising, which is a big plus where fuel costs a lot.
VW basically failed to comply and thus they found a 'workaround' of sorts. Other companies didn't fail somehow at the same time.
P.S.: not a eco activist, but like to have my facts like my coffee - straight.
You have such a great way of explaining a subject with a combination of plausable simplicity, and a thouroughness that really paints a complete picture of the subject at hand, without a ton of fluffy filler. Thank you, and please keep doing what you do!
15:42 It also allows you to stop a runaway simply by shutting off the engine.
Which will never happen if you properly delete egr because your turbo is no longer the first thing to fail.
How runaway is even possible with modern motors? If amount of fuel is controlled electronically, and you shut off engine isn't that enough to stop runaway because injectors stop spraying fuel? I don't get it...
@@Felix2417425 if oil makes it's way to the intake, by a blown turbo for example, the engine begins to run on that oil.
@@Felix2417425 Diesels don't usually run away on diesel, often a seal somewhere fails and begins feeding the engine oil. Diesels will run on nearly anything, and they're compression ignition, sooo... Yeah, that can cause problems sometimes.
@@gearloose703 Wrong.
The reason you delete is, once deleted, it's never a problem again.
I owned a VW TDI, once I got to 90k miles, I had a lot of problems due to the EGR, long story short. $18,000 in repairs to get it running again. (The extended warranty covered most of the repair cost) I paid around $4000 in service fee’s to analyze and identify the issue. Basically you don’t want a diesel engine with a particular filter, EGR, takes Def fluid. All those are the problem, the older diesel engines that blow black smoke are the diesel engines that will run 500,000 miles or more. Thank this guys for explaining the EGR in detail. He is awesome 😎
Incredibly on point. I'd like to add that blocking the egr on an efi petrol engine is a bad idea because the ECU is calibrated to advance ignition timing when the ecu commands egr open, and pulls fuel to compensate for the inert charge, which is oxygen rich with a blocked egr, causing the perfect storm of detonation, lean mixture, and excess timing at cruising speed.
I would have thought that most ECUs would still calculate fuel based off mass air flow. If there egr was blocked than more air would need to flow to fill the cylinder, this would be detected be the MAF sensor and fuel adjusted accordingly.
But I’m only speculating based on my knowledge as an interested lay person
What about the lambda I would have thought that would help bring it back into line
I was going to comment the same thing about ignition timing.
@@andrewdynes5300 That's the whole point of doing this in conjunction with a tuning shop as is mentioned in the video. You reprogram to computer to compensate for the fact you no longer have an EGR system.
My father in law’s 2015 diesel Toyota Avensis with BMW derived engine and half my mileage has its egr valve low and to the rear of the block. It requires hours of work to access and various mechanics would not touch it. After 18 months of check engine light he finally got a mechanic to do the work. The mechanic would only replace it given the amount of work required. The egr was replaced twice. When it failed on the third time he had the EGR and DPF and Cat delete carried out and a remapping. It exhausts so freely now the dominant engine noise is turbo whistle.
The engine is happy and running the way it should!
get a proper mechanic
@@Harry_GersackThink he finally did in the end. There's such a thing as a service which isn't worth the money you can really charge the customer.
@@Harry_Gersack
All mechanics involved were well established and fully equipped businesses. A mechanic can’t undo bad design. I’m not a mechanic and can service my egr with ease. In my view the mechanics were reluctant because the true cost of the work was significantly more than they felt able to charge for. Plus the maintenance would only be temporary.
Is it necessary to delete Cat after deleting EGR?
In the video, it wasn't mentioned that. Especially prevalent in turbocharged diesel engines.
pros:
-The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) system, if present on the model, helps the engine warm up by passing through the EGR cooler.
cons:
-Deposits not only form in the EGR system but also in the subsequent intake channels, especially if the turbo passes some oil on the cold side (which can allow them to operate smoothly for many kilometers, presumably up to 100,000, without issues).
-In my experience, electric EGR valves can close about 20% in roughly one second, slowing down throttle responses because a significant amount of exhaust gas pressure is diverted to the intake side instead of spinning the turbo."
I built a very high compression 350 chevy with a large cam. That 75 Monte Carlo. I had drivable problems. Hooked up an EGR and she was streetable and tamed the demons, drivability, even milage and speeds went up. Each engine is different.
Mikel
Should have used plenum pressure controlled water injection... perfect solution and even more power!
Had my 1.9 TDI remapped for increased hp and they asked if they should do an EGR delete while they are at it. EGR valve still "works" and does the self test every time the engine starts but just stays closed when the engine is running. And i have to say, you notice the difference in throttle response. When you step on the pedal there are no exhaust gasses inside the manifold that first have to be burned before the engine runs at peak efficiency. It just goes and i love it.
by far the best engine technical channel I've found on YT.
Once again, most informative, thanks 🙏🏻
I have an OPEL Frontera of the '96, 2.0i Petrol, I have "patched" the EGR because it always got blocked by the soot itself.
Also, I have mounted an oil catch can, and, with both this, the health of the intake manifold has increased dramatically.
Even when brand new it didn't look so clean.
Don't regret anything ...
the EGR pipe on my V6 Mazda would get clogged and was poorly designed in my opinion. It was actually designed and built by Ford. Such half-hearted attempts do require modifications to run well.
Something else must have been or still be wrong with the engine: in the 90's Opel didn't use direct injection, so there should be no soot...
The main reason I watch the channel is what you said in the first 60+ seconds of this video even though I have 40+ years in now as a master mechanic and body/paint man now. 0:57
My US Import AW11 actually had an EGR but was deleted by the previous owner. Kinda glad about it because I assume that one falls under the early cheap ones that will fail?
Yes, has a rubber diaphragm in it. I had one too, it was busted when I bought the car, of course replacements are no longer existent and used ones are a gamble as most are busted too. The issues of cars that are almost 40 years old now 😅
@@d4a Interesting & informative video as always, i think there's a great future topics that you can cover on the channel such as why modern diesel has a lower cr, solenoid vs piezo injectors (multiple injection pulses, number of holes, injection pressure) and piston bowl shapes in modern diesel. I think it would be awesome if you cover these stuff in the future.
If your planning it, be aware what are the local laws concerning the EGR removal. Here in Finland, a law change will come into effect in 6/2024, that any modifications of EGR/DPF/GPF/AdBlue-systems found out in yearly state inspections will result in 1000-3000€ fine for private vehicles and 20000€-30000€ fine to commercial vehicles. This came into effect because it's relatively common practice for truckers here to remove AdBlue-system due to it failing in winter conditions.
Likely cheaper to pay the fine then constantly repair the Def system.
We have had to replace 4 Def pumps, and I can't count how many injectors adding up 20k+ in repairs. Obviously this is heavy equipment, but it remains the same, my old 14 bmw 328d had its Def system go out and it was nearly $4k if it hadn't been under warranty, on top of the egr going out and having to replace the intake manifold. These emission system are costly and are leading to high failure rates.
So your government is sabotaging its economy and food supply. Great
@@bobhosler2024 Do you think you only get the fine? Those inspection attest that your car is roadworthy, if you fail it (removing the DEF system will most certainly lead to a failed emissions test) mean you won't be able to (legally) drive the car on the road.
Yes, the emission systems are costly, but they are just another part of the car that need to work to use the car.
@@LAndrewsChannelFor the government to let you use the car, you mean.
@@kingnull2697 False. You can do whatever to your car and use it, "the government" doesn't care. But the moment you step on public roads, made by that "government", you need to respect its rules, be it traffic laws or safety and emissions standards. If you are unable to, you and your car shouldn't be on the public roads.
The thorough way you go into each area you cover is APPRECIATED. I'm learning more and more as I view your videos. Thanks.
Looking at the service information on the RAM ECO diesel engines it still looks like it is worth deleting. First the EGR cooler isn't reliable. Often cracking and leaking coolant into the engine/oil. Then they were having issues with too much soot blocking oil passages in the motor and spinning bearings. They reduced the oil viscosity I believe to help combat this leaving us with few oil options and expensive oil. It likely also increases engine wear as it now runs thinner oil than originally designed for.
In the third generation models of this motor I believe they are running the EGR through the DPF before going back into the engine. Allowing it to cool along the way and getting rid of the soot.
Just all bad and refuses HP and MPG. Throwing insult to insanity.
It jus sounds like that's an completely shitty designed engine family in general. Soot blocking oil passenges? I mean come on. They forgot to put piston rings in it or what
@@Harry_Gersack I don't know the exact cause as all diesels have soot in the oil. Plus the filter should be getting most of it out. Maybe they previously had a longer service interval too. Then the oil filter finally plugs up and bypasses and soot accumulates. A bigger oil filter would have been the better solution for that, but changing software and the manual is cheaper than a new oil filter housing, so is what they would pick.
@@court2379 I still can't believe that soot causes oil passages to block and engine damage. That's the first and only time I've ever heard that claim. I'm staying with my assumption that these engines are generally a bad design
@@Harry_Gersack I don't think there was anything wrong with the motors until they brought them to the US and added emissions garbage to them. The motor design isn't the problem.
26:24 in my area, easy to sevice = easy to remove.
Current production RZ4E engine EGR delete kit here is no more than 30USD, installation of the kit included.
The EGR system on a Kenworth T403 has a replacement cost of AUD5,500. If you get a leak in this system it plays absolute havoc with the engine management system.
One of the bigger issues was not brought up. Exhaust gas restriction in the exhaust manifold. Of course not all cars are the same but there are definitely quite a few that when you remove the EGR pipes from inside the exhaust manifold the engine runs much freer.
Excellent informative video. Thank you and keep 'em coming! 👍
As usual, clear succinct and to the point. As a 30 year automotive technician I still came away from your video with additional knowledge. Keep up the good work!
New EPA regulations are terrible for the maintenance cost of diesels.
They are intrinsically designed to make diesels less appealing and more costly to own. Death by 1000 cuts
Another way to say it would be ICE vehicles are absolutely terrible for air quality and engine designers have no real answers.
Liar.
@@ricepony33just say no to the false narratives and conspiracy theories. 🚫
*diesels, no stupid apostrophe
When I had the engine replaced on my 1.8l diesel the mechanic put a blanking plate in the egr to stop it from recirculating he said because it WOULD cause problems in the future. Turns out the car really struggles to heat up the engine especially in the winter without this.
The EGR is usually inactive during warm-up to help the engine heat up faster
@d4a that's very strange then. 🤔 all I know is that during the winter the engine would not get about 60-70c even during hard driving and it made more of a pain to de-ice the car. After removing the blanking plate it helpes the engine warm up much quicker.
I thought this might be done for emissions purposes like warming the engine quicker to help warm the catalytic converter quicker etc.
@@SJR275does it have an egr cooler
@@d4a EGR cooler does catch significant amount of heat. Note diesels may never reach operating temperature in city in cold climates. EGR cooler has significant effect on coolant temperature.
My 05 duramax struggles getting warm in winter I feel from being deleted
seems to be the same story as with emptying or straight piping your exhaust
after the most surface level "research" on the most surface level surface of the topic people be like "when i are is make exhaust less resistance it are is make power more"
without taking into account that you have to ajust literally everyhing else on the car to account for that
Always love your videos, super helpful!
Just vent the pcv/breather to the air.
I love this guy. This is exactly the kind of video I want to see on EGR valves.
(I've had EGR issues that took me a while to diagnose and fix, but it involved a lot of cleaning and money with new injectors and cleaning a cylinder head, but in the book, it says it improves performance on my TDCi DuraTorq - So yeah, I really want to know what's up from an intelligent, objective perspective)