Aegon II Vs Rhaenyra: Who Should Rule The Seven Kingdoms?
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- Опубликовано: 13 ноя 2023
- Aegon II and Rhaenyra are the faces of house the dragon and their claims to the iron throne have divided people both in and out of the show. The question of who truly has the right to rule is asked often but the answer isn't as clear as you may think.
#breakdown #characteranalysis #explained #film #asoiaf #aegontargaryen #rhaenyratargaryen #teamblack #teamgreen #gameofthrones #georgerrmartin #dragons #fireandblood #hotd #houseofthedragon 
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I am of the opinion that Viserys never should’ve remarried if his intention was to name Rhaenyra heir. If you’re going to do something that revolutionary you give people no alternative.
Once he had Aegon he should’ve named him heir and perhaps the boy would’ve grown up properly. Having said that he didn’t. He stuck with Rhaenyra and, since he’s the King & the Dragon answers to one that’s his right.
He could’ve married the Greens & Blacks together multiple times and forced his will but he was weak. The entire situation is due to Viserys.
Rnaenyra’s biggest mistake was marrying her Uncle. Daemon made a lot of enemies. Murdered a lot of innocent people.
Hell in the books his advice is so bad, that she has to go and get Corlys to be her hand.
Killing ur first wife whose family runs a big part of the vale in which Rt will need their support to win the war lol
Ain’t Daemon still banned from entering the vale lol
@@jjosifovic not only is he still banned but they hate his guts.
@@kimberlyplatt2382 and people say they would rule better than the greens lol
@@jjosifovic at least Otto knew what he was doing. Plus Rhaenyra sees first hand. Why her father kept sending Daemon away. Because once she sits that iron throne.
Daemon not only goes back to his old ways, he becomes worse.
@@kimberlyplatt2382
Facts. At least Otto was a solid political figure. Their whole council was, compared to the Black's
Realistically, neither Rhaenyra nor Aegon would be truly competent rulers. It would come down to who kept their counsel, and in that respect the Greens are by far the superior choice. Firstly, Alicent and Otto would be coaching Aegon the whole way. They have years and years of *successful* governing experience between the two of them. And that's to say nothing of the excellent council that the two of them have curated. These two are key components. Meanwhile, neither the Blacks nor Rhaenyra have any comparable knowledge nor do they have access to it. They would be going in entirely blind without a shred of real guidance. This isn't such an obstacle when you have a naturally talented leader at the helm, but the Blacks do not have that. What they have is an entitled heiress and an infamous warmonger who cares not for diplomacy.
What's most hilarious to me is that people don't seem to see the glaring parallels between Rhaenyra and Aegon. Both free-spirited, stubborn, self-centered and mouth-off a great deal especially in their youths. They both take advantage of their privilege without seeming to understand that they're only allowed to act out the way they do on account of it. Neither of them care for rules and regulations. The only REAL difference is that Aegon does not have any illusions about his ability to rule, whereas Rhaenyra... well. She doesn't care whether or not she CAN rule, or if she'll be decent at it, just that she WILL because she wants to and because Daddy promised her she could.
Anyway.
Aegon, while far from perfect, at least proved bravery, determination and strength of will.
He was willing to go on the frontlines, insane levels of resilience, never giving up despite literally having half his body torched and going through days of agony straight with no respite, overcoming his addiction to milk of the poppy, bond with Sunfyre, in the book he also accepts the crown to defend his family.
True. Honestly, they made some characters better and some worse than in the books, and I think Aegon may have suffered some in the face of adaptation. Some stuff was the same, but man, I hope he's still a true Dragonlord when the war kicks off
You Aegon Stan’s are crazy lmao rhaenyra physically couldn’t participate in the war cuz of her health lol plus Aegon literally had to team up with the biggest dragon to try and kill one rider lol stop talking about some bravery. Mans was a rapist in the original work and nobody knows why he accepted the crown in the book lol that’s the point of the book until it’s confirmed and the show does that
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince Aegons half sister literally teamed up with other people and had dragons on her team as well.
@@kimberlyplatt2382 yes after they killed her son lmao are you slow?
@Caraxes_RoguePrince except for the fact that she does take part...
Aegon, he’s married to a beloved princess/queen instead of a warmonger and wild prince like Daemon, also has two true born sons with her and a clear succession after him (sons then brothers). If Rhaenyra ascended there would be a succession crisis between her strong boys and daemon’s sons, even if she had the Targtowers by her side. He also has better and more diplomatic advisors.
that's not even putting alicent into the picture or how rhaenyra deals w/ criticisms towards her eldest sons. team green is the logical choice unfortunately, especially since most lords chose him cause he's a male and that is the custom
So rhaenyra and daemon kids would fight but not Aegon and aemond kids? You are hilarious and clearly a daemon hater
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince you clearly don’t know how the line of succession works. Aegon already has trueborn children, so all of them are on the line and Aemond’s line is discarded. Aemond knows this, and canon Aemond is very loyal to his family. The strong boys are bastards, Daemon’s children are trueborn, at least in the book.
@@Valentinianist daemon children is trueborn in the show as well lol they got married in a valryian wedding meaning she could have more than one husband just like maegor and the first Aegon did…so what makes you think daemon children would fight they brother? Lmao just because you don’t think they would accept it don’t actually mean they would try anything especially with knowing how much the brothers loved one another even jace dying for them. Also saying aemond is very loyal to his family like he didn’t literally say in the book that the crowned was better on him then it ever was on Aegon when Aegon was too hurt to be king lmao you a joke and clearly don’t know wtf you talking about
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince 1) you’re clearly obsessed with me and my opinions, take a chill pill
2) no? why would aegon 3 and viserys accept their inheritance stolen? i would actually respect daemon for standing up for his sons
3) polygamy was abolished in westeros, since maegor and jaehaerys.
4) aemond literally died for his brother, and named himself ‘prince regent’, not king, even when he could. he’s loyal to his brother. just bc you dickride daemon so hard doesn’t mean every second son is out for his brother’s throne.
Rhaenyra being in power means so is Daemon and Rhaenyra has shown to never punish Daemon for his acts in any meaningful and imo Daemon is not only way more dangerous than Aegon but also worse than him imo
People some how forgot why Viserys kept sending Daemon away.
''Aegon is traumatized, mentally unstable, abusive and sadistic''
Pretty much sums up the majority of Targaryens who ever existed
Ok I have a simple task for you study the targs on wiki make a number of all of them and then a second on the amount that were mad I dare you
@@durrangodsgrief6503 no
While aegon would be a bad ruler his rule would be much better than rhaenyra mainly because his advisors and supporters are much more experienced and competent than the few advisors rhaenyra has in particular Otto Hightower who served as hand since jaehaerys and clearly knows what he is doing when it comes to running a realm, aegon also has the political and diplomatic ties needed to successfully cooperate with his vassals because while rhaenyra was just sitting around at dragonstone having bastards aegon was the scion of a powerful house and Otto and Alicent would be familiar with the most powerful people of the realm through their time at court while rhaenyra has no real political or diplomatic ties outside of house velaryon who while at the time were the second most powerful house in the realm are largely irrelevant in the wider political theater of Westeros and only ever really deal with the realm when it’s being the sidekicks of the targaryens so rhaenyra would have to pretty much start from scratch when it came to actually building the relationships necessary to effectively govern the realm
Rhaenys has a better claim, Jon X in ADWD tells us a daughter (Rhaenys) has a better claim than a uncle (Baelon and his heirs)
@@Rhaenyssupporteryeah but the iron throne already had a precedent of passing over the daughters of elder sons as Aegon the uncrowned’s daughter were passed over for jaehaerys
Your explanation is exactly why I can never root for Rhaenrya. Not because of her gender but it’s very obvious that she’s a bad politician and she trusts Daemon of all people to give her counsel (dude is the embodiment of might makes right). Like you said at least Aegon has his grandfather and mother who are very good politicians to guide him and teach him. If Aegon fails at that he has two brothers and sons to succeed him.
@@diogenes7663 The kings/lords personal preferences do not change the law, if you believe they are allowed to change the law then Rhaenyra ends up being the rightful heir.
@@Rhaenyssupporter yeah I agree but the iron throne seems to work differently I was pointing out as we know a daughter comes before an uncle for most of not all seats in Westeros except the iron throne
Great video i would still choose Aegon because he can be manipulated by his competent counselors. Rhaenryra had the chance to build alliances but instead had to rely on her father to protect her from all the mistakes SHE made and not to mention she marries the MAN WHO WAS DENOUNCED AS HEIR the whole reason why she was named heir in the first place......
I choose the side that will not destabilize the realm and that will respect the traditions and culture of westeros.....granted my choice would be Rhaenys over the horrible two choices of Aegon and Rhaenyra.
I'm not okay with a rapist who enjoys watching children forced to fight each other to the death ruling the 7 Kingdoms. Not to mention the utter hypocrisy of him having bastards all over King's Landing.
I feel like people really oversell the patrilineal ‘traditions’ of Westeros. I mean, the Iron Throne is a very new institution. Out of the 5 kings before the Dance, only 1 of them unambiguously passed down father-son.
-Aegon took the throne by conquest, and his sisters were his equals in all respects but the history books.
-Aenys did unambiguously inherit from Aegon, but he also just the oldest child.
-Maegor usurped the throne illegally.
-Jaehaeys usurped the throne after him. Aenys’ eldest child, Rhaenys, was proclaimed legitimate heir and Queen by the Westerlands and parts of the Riverlands. Though Jaehaerys usurped it less blatantly than Maegor, as he did have a genuinely strong claim, it was not without controversy and political upheaval.
-Viserys was voted in by a Great Council mostly because nobody knew what the hell was going on anymore. Further, while the votes were said to be strongly in his favour, there is strong subtext for some sort of voter meddling or fraud. Whether you believe it or not doesn’t matter though, as it still does not set a precedent.
Think back on other traditions the Targaryen’s didn’t keep. Incestuous marriage. Disbanding the faith militant. Doctrine of ‘Targaryen exceptionalism’. Multiple wives (though this was less commonly practiced). Many of those are worse or more difficult a sell than a woman monarch.
Also, I dunno, Aegon II may have competent people around him, but I see mostly sycophants and schemers. And if they didn’t try to commit a hostile coup, she probably would have retained the best of them in her council anyway. But I will concede her PR and networking skills need a lot of work.
@@realdaggerman105a fair assessment but mind you their r traditions that predate the iron throne. I feel with Rt that she is making these changes way to fast n she is actively showing a bias when it comes to ruling.
I only chose Aegon because I feel their is a chance to grow better but Rt with 16 plus years still can’t build any alliances n looks like she will rely on DAEMON of all people to control her rule. Which would mean death before trial n a whole lot of threatening people by dragon law lol
Exactly, Aegon would be so disinterested that he'd allow his council to do the majority of the work while he drank and whored. He'd be similar to Robert Baratheon who was also just as sexually depraved as Aegon yet ppl turn a blind eye because..."Bobby B!"
The crucial problem with Rhaenyra is that she genuinely believes she is fit to rule (at least Aegon acknowledges his shortcomings). She also has no care for lords and smallfolk unless it's convenient for her which is a terrible political strategy. She has an ego that would not allow her to heed enough sage advice in the first place and she could use all the wisdom in her grasp since her council doesn't spark security and competence.
Then there's the whole issue about Rhaenyra's claim being a contradiction of law, her bastards, Daemon etc.
The rational choice is Aegon although I do understand why Empyrean leaned towards Rhaenyra.
@@browniebearthe writers made Aegon a rapist even though the actor disagreed with it n the stupid bastard fighting pits was just so extra to make it clear that Aegon was a monster…..
" Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick a shadow on the wall. A very small man can cast a very large shadow. " Varys said to Tyrion
They should married Aegon and Rhaenyra the moment Laenor died. Also, Viserys should have forced through Jaecaerys and Heleana's match, damn Viserys you are a king. Then marry Rhaena to Aegon, and Lucerys to Baela. All parties intermarried. Then Bethroded the other kids to other powerful houses. Bingo the realm is more or less tied together.
Viserys should have excepted Otto's proposal of marrying Aegon to Rhaenyra. Then I think people would be ok with that since Aegon probably wouldn't do too much. Aemond would be the real protector of the realm as he is duitful and would help the houses of westeroes win battles while Rhaenyra would preside over court
Aegon was already betrothed to Helaena though.
Regarding Borros iirc he never swore an oath it was his father who swore that particular oath and well he's dead now so does the oath still stand?
nope.
No, his father said "I Boremund Baratheon swear...." He swore the oath only in his own person not in the name of his entire house or dynasty. Borros is therefore not bound to it
Book Rhaenys has a better claim (Daughters come before uncles) and would overall make for a better monarch than Aegon/Rhaenyra
Rhaenys would have been a great queen!
No , her father Aemon had two older sisters , Rhaenys claim comes from her father who was chosen over his two older sisters because he's male ! So Rhaenys should follow the same laws that put her father in the front line of succession ! Viserys is the true heir so is her first born son Aegon !
@@Savage-nv6wr The first two daughters did not live long, and neither did the daughters of Aegon the uncrowned, Rhaenys and her decedents however continued. It's literally stated in TWOIAF that Laenor (and by extension Rhaenys) had a better claim by primogeniture this isn't a belief it's a fact you can quote from TWOIAF
@@Savage-nv6wrthat's what i'm saying, everyone wants to seat rhaenys or rhaenyra, forgetting that the only reason they're even in the line of succession is entirely thanks to male primogenitor. if not directly (viscerys getting the throne over rhaenys and jaeherys getting the throne over rhaena), then at people have to acknowledge that the foundation of the targ family follows it w/ the way viscenya was not only a more capable ruler but the eldest sibling, yet aegon was the king
Just popping in to say I discovered your channel yesterday with your Aegon analysis and I'm now on a binging sprea. Your analysis is always nicely done and interesting!
According to the principle of unavailability of the Crown, the Crown does not belong to the monarch, who cannot therefore dispose of it as he wishes or appoint his successor. This is the basic principle of most feudal monarchies, and when applied to the Seven Kingdoms, Aegon is indisputably the rightful heir.
Short unswer : Aegon
Long unswer : this video
So true well said I also believe a great council should have been called either by Viserys or after his death that way the realm decides and most likely avoids civil war
i will choose aegon
Love these videos
Neither are a good choice rhaenyra wouldve been halfway decent if she at least tried to keep up appearances and tried to make alliances with other kingdoms like she shouldve sent her sons to be fostered in other places, afterall ned and robert were best friends because they grew up in the vale together. Also rhaenyra shouldve had bastards by someone who at least looked like laenor
Did either of them have necessary skills or experience to do so?
Not really, but hereditary monarchy is also not exactly about competence and qualification
no, but otto and alicent did and daemon and corlys didn't, so settled
Aegon actually adapted well to his role in the books, I believe he, through guidance of his councillors, could have become a good king. Besides, from the moment he was born, rhaenyra lost her place in the line of succession. Naming her his heir even after aegon's birth was never within Viserys' rights, as legal precedent and his own kingship derive from male primogeniture.
He even told her that not even he is above tradition and duty yet he undermindes that
In my opinion, none of the two are fit to rule on a personal level. However, Aegon is a sensible choice because of legitimacy. Rhaenyra was always going to cause a Dance of sorts because Daemon beside her is power hungry and overreaching and her three sons are known bastards. All this will lead to political instability and less peace for the smallfolk.
6:27 I'm so glad you brought that up.
i personally see any s/a as irredeemable, but mass murder is also irredeemable. it's just not as slimy
The Greens would’ve undermined Rhaenyrs so much that it wouldn’t matter how great of a ruler she is. Viserys let things get to the point where the dance was inevitable.
In the end an Aegon does end up on the Iron Throne 😏
"he was poisoned and rhaenyra's son was seated" damn he still was seated last
Okay, I'm only familiar with the Fire and Blood book, I've never seen the TV adaptation. Why is Viserys wearing a Phantom of the Opera mask?
He’s slowly dying from degenerative disease, so his face is getting all messed up if I remember correctly.
@@horrorhistory7342 Yeah, that wasn’t in the book. But I guess they added it because it looks effective onscreen.
If the king was choosen by merit amongst the kings chieldren, bith Daeron and Aemond would have come before Raenyra and Aegon.
Why not do what if Jon and Dany time traveled to the dance ?
I thinks the whole situation is just tragic for Rhaenyra. Because her father's indecision and questionable choice of spouses was always destined to doom Rhaenyra claim to the throne. In a perfect world, Rhaenyra would never have burdened with the expectation of possibly becoming the ruler of westeros. However, because Viserys gave her the expectation of possibly becoming the ruler of Westeros, coupled with the spectre of Rhaenys's own failed claim to the Iron Throne. All of that unduly burdened Rhaenyra with the responsibility of becoming the future ruler of Westeros. Otherwise, she would have been felt shamed within the Seven Kingdoms the same way Rhaenys was also shamed. Since people even mock Rhaenys for losing her claim by calling her The Queen That Never Was
Probably no targaryen deserves to rule 7 kingdoms at all. Not even aegon the Conqueror care much about ruling but to expand his power like old valyrians did with their dragons.
Have you read Fire and Blood? Aegon spent basically every day after the conquest tending tobthe realm
bro, Aegon literally made the Iron Throne uncomfortable because he believed that a king should not be lazy in ruling. His unification of the seven kingdoms ended the frequent wars of the seven kingdoms which greatly affected the common people while Jaehaerys made the realm in peacewas 50 years. It was thanks to the Targaryens that the six, later seven kingdoms did not get into war with each other as frequent as they did back before Aegon's time.
Aemond or Daeron would have been the best rulers thats my picks too be king
0:33 half brother
bobby b
f Targaryens
THIS 😂😂😂😂
God I was strong.
The only King I would go to war for.
It should be Rhaynera. She was named the heir. She's s the oldest. She's a grown adult, who was preparing for this for the last 20 years. Not a sniveling little boy who ran away from responsibility the moment he was faced with it. And as bad as what Princess Rhyenese did breaking through the floor with her dragon causing dozens of people to be killed, their suffering is over. Just because we only heard about one girl that got sexually assaulted by Ameon does that mean he didn't do it before. And he also didn't really seem to care too much when his brought mother brought that up to him and how ashamed she was. If anything it's pretty high indication that he's done that more than once. The psychological and possible physical suffering continues far long past the tramatic event. Yes, a person with time can heal, but it still lingers throughout life.
Targaryens marry their full/half brother/sister so Rhaenyra should have been married Aegon and poisoned or killed him. So this whole problem would have been solved 😂
you should read the real english history of the queen Matilda...quite similar to Rhaenyra...she couldnt rule cause stupid men werent ready yet but some hundred years later we had one of the greatest queens ever....Elizabeth I ...you are basically jusrt saying here that women cant rule cause this is the law...like men in Matildas age
it's not that women can't rule. the guy already said that the only reason rhaenyra has her claim is cause her dad got the throne over his cousin. once that was out of the way, it's acknowledged that both rules suck in their own ways and don't try to better themselves. the whole conflict being reduced to westeros hating women is so tiring cause it's so shallow and easy to come to. there's no actual substance to only focusing on that argument, especially because the same tend to only criticize the greens as normal people, but the blacks are seen as cool cause they're monarch happens to be a woman.
If she was to rule then she should have won instead a man her son had to pick up her failures and become king
No rapists should ever have any authority to begin with. Then it comes to the word of the king. Viserys set his daughter to be ruler, his "coherent" word is law and takes precedent over any other kings from before. He never named another heir. Therefore his daughter inherits the throne according to the law created by Viserys.
If the word of previous monarchs matter little then upon his death his word died with him
14:48 Aegon could very well prove himself to be a capable leader despite his flaws
*book readers laughing*
Well, he's not really going to prove himself ANY sort of ruler despite his flaws.
Eggo proves himself incompetent and sadistic during the war and before it he is a drunken fool who’d rather drink then prepare to rule.. His brothers slaughter civilians and his wife does nothing plus Aegon fired Otto (and allowed the killing of a bunch of his own employees). Rhaenyra’s mistakes were questionable allies and burning bridges with allies, having questionable relations (that most of the realm ignored). All in all I find Aegon’s faults more intense and worse for a monarch to have.
"his wife does nothing" she kills herself at the start of the dance so good job
I'm literally only on #TeamHelaemond
I'm so upset that the story doesn't branch off with Aemond and Helaena being the reigning couple after Rhaenyra and Aegon II have killed each other 😅
That's because they both died beforehand. They would have made a good reigning couple though
Aemond the dude that killed innocent children is supposed to rule? Lol
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince Luke is not so innocent. But Aemond has said he would be a more competent ruler than Aegon because of his dutifulness
@@Thrawn23. how is he not innocent? He protected his brother from getting hit with a rock lol plus I’m not even talking about Luke did you not know aemond burned innocent women men and children for days at the riverlands? 🤣 just because aemond thinks he would be better than Aegon don’t mean he would be good
@@Caraxes_RoguePrince cutting out his uncle's eye after he already had gotten sand thrown in his eyes is beyond innocent. He brought a dagger for a reason. Aemond burns the river lands later on. But before that he had proven to be a better choice than Aegon by claiming the largest dragon and fulfilling an important allie for his family. If he had only gotten equal justice for what Luke did to him then perhaps he wouldn't have let his emotions get in the way of his decision making
Rhaenyra...because she was King Viserys's choice, his named heir. If the greens had any respect for him, they would have let his choice stand.
If Rhaenyra had any respect for her father she would have made life easier for him but she didn’t
If there was any respect for Viserys in any sense of the word then Rhae wouldn't have popped out 3 bastard boys.
@@higharchbishopofteatasting6217she also could have visited for the last 6 years of his life lol
And why should the Greens have any respect for that biased old asshole who never gave a flying fuck about them?
Why would Alicent care for the man who raped her for years while she was a teenager, neglected her children and threatened her after her son was mutilated? Why would the Targtowers care for in-laws that hate them? 😂