The problem is they made Rhaenyra the protagonist. There shouldn’t have been a protagonist, just characters who were pieces on a chessboard. Even GOT wasn’t as biased when the writers were adapting Martin’s books.
There are no heroes in GOT: just the gray and the dead. In that regard, they completely forgot the spirit of GOT and it's non-traditional, unique approach to character morality ... one of GRRM's most defining traits.
*the afterthought here being that Aegon is very young and has a long time to really screw up the tealm(old J the conciliator and Vizzy the peaceful are exceptions to the rule more often than not for this fam I mean once ‘conquered’ setting up future and just straight day to day and such👑🤴🏼🫅🏼
I have no stakes in this game, but my question to TB fans is this: since a person's gender has no bearing on their ability, why does their age or bloodline matter? Why are Targaryens, or older siblings considered more able to govern the realm? Isn't that just as stupid? I mean, at least TG fans are consistent.
When you have war there were always crimes ob both side. When country X invades country Y, for sure many soldiers and leaders Y will be made controversialdecisiosn and commit atrocities to win war. But it is still country X that started this war - all further things are their fault, not Y. Same here. Greens commited usurpation solely because of Rhaneyra's gender, not because she was bad ruler. Therefore all war atrocities that Black faction will commit during war are Greens fault and Greens alone. Rhaneyra throne was stolen and if she wants to win it back, she can't be saint. That's reality of war. But moral rights is on her side, since it where Greens that wronged her.
@@KaiHung-wv3ulEven president in democratic coutry can pardon (meaning: released without aquittal) criminals - and we are not talking about dmocracy: we are talking about absolute monarchy. Head of state can always affect the way country and law work, so choosing his heir was Viderys' privilage and right. None objected when named Rhaenyra his heir. Everything that happened against her was treason.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 fighting a war to defend your country from foreign aggression is a lot more morally justified than fighting a war merely to win a throne from your own half brother that you feel entitled to, stolen or not. Rhaenyra had the option to negotiate a peace, nobody forced her to go to war. Also no country Y is still responsible for its own war crimes. Just because you are not responsible for the war doesn't mean you cannot be held accountable for war crimes, what an absurd notion is that? Last jut not least, Rhaenyra's cause isn't as righteous and infallible as you want it to be.
A moment of silence and lighting for the funeral pyres of: Vhagar, Dreamfyre, Vermithor, Silverwing, Caraxes, Meleys, Syrax, Seasmoke, Sunfyre, Tessarion, Vermax, Arrax, Tyraxes, Stormcloud, Moondancer, Morghul, Shrykos and poor little Morning who didn't even see warfare or revolt and yet still barely grew before dying
Swear to God, the scene where Silverwing tries to raise Verimothor's wing 3 times but realises he's dead made be actually tear up when I first read it. Saddest death in the entire series. But hey, it might have never actually happened.
Also the fact that most of the houses on either side didn’t even care about the conflict, they just wanted to gain more power and influence. The Lannisters helped carry the green team just to get back in the big leagues.
This is the case in this saga taking place a hundred and more years or so before the present setting of ASOIAF, and is the case throughout ASOIAF, as far as some in the fanbase goes. Concerning themselves with who calls the shots for the kingdom, regardless of how far into the ground the common person gets buried. Even after the creator of the series, GRRM, emphasizes how trivial these wars and arguments are in light of what's coming for the world from the lands beyond the wall.
George spent 30 years on a series that screams “war is bad, feudalism is bad, misogyny is bad, WAR IS BAD” and people still think rhaenyra deserves to rule because her dad had a dream.
@@VergilNotVigil Her father didn't change the laws. He could have changed them to match Dorne, but that would have given them so much unrest and conflict, because of all the older sisters of other noble houses who suddenly are able to inherit before their younger brothers. King Viserys only wanted to make an exception for his daughter and her children and nothing more. She has a claim, but with not changing laws Aegon has a claim as well. And due to her having illegitimate children he actually does have a better one, because his children with Halaena are legitimate. And pointing things pointing things out isn't mysogyny, that's just how it is.
on your final point about targaryens misinterpreting dreams, I wonder if Daena the dreamer didn't exactly dream of the doom but rather only that if her father moved to dragonstone they would become the most powerful dragonlords and family in the world, and so he did just that and it came true... just not in the way they expected
The core problem with the idea of a "rightful king" is it presumes the legitimacy of monarchy. Also, I don't think Otto actually believed Aegon should rule because of TrAdItIoN, that's just a handy PR spin. What he really wants is his blood on the Iron Throne.
@@chiaraschweizer5665True but oddly enough, Daemon would've been a good Hand for Viserys. They would've balanced each other out: - Viserys, passive and conflict-avoidant, sparks admiration of the ppl/nobles - Daemon, impulsive and efficient, sparks fear (resulting in respect) and loyalty (look at the Gold Cloaks). Viserys tried to be as hands off as he could but with Daemon as Hand, Viserys would be forced to keep him in check and take active duty in governing the realm with his brother. It's the perfect match that never was and could not be, such is often the tragedy in this storyworld
@@browniebear No Daemon is a sociopath. Charismatic, but he has no emotional empathy, he only does what is best for himself and he disregards other peoples feelings constantly. Plus politics is mostly about using soft power, but Daemon only knows how to use hard power. He would be the second most powerful man if the continent and being able to use soft power is crucial for the position.
Overall, I can agree. In the end, I find that it was a tragedy how it all ended. I may not like all the characters personally, but I don't believe they all deserved to deal with the death and sorrow to come. So many circumstances involved here, so many viewpoints and interpretations, etc that led to this windfall. Not due to just any one person (though arguably, if any one single individual had the most responsibility, it would be Viserys but I digress). Overall... it's the fact they waged war upon each other and it ruined everything truly sets the reality of how Civil Wars are among the bloodiest, most passionate kind of war
Agree! I think its also very much something done on purpose by the showrunners, to keep people interested..and it makes sense - to do so!! It could be worse, with no discussions or theori talk! So happy about the show in general ❤❤
To me it was Viserys that started it all. He should have named Rhaenyra heir until time he had a son. He should have married her to Daemon. Unknowingly, Viserys made so many mistakes as king.
Unrealistic or not Viserys' plan for everyone in the family to get along would have avoided anyone dying. His way of achieving this was terrible but he was aiming for the right thing.
He was weak, foolish and naive. He favored Rhaenyra above everyone else including his brother. He completely neglected his children with Alicent. And the fact that he named his trueborn eldest son Aegon but still wanted Rhaenyra to rule makes me question how much faith he actually had in this dream of his. He allowed Rhaenyra to go to Dragonstone for 6 years completely and remain completely oblivious to everything happening at court during that time, all while also stacking his small council with green sympathizers. Aegon has the conqueror's name and wields Blackfyre, the conqueror's sword, to me and you, yes, it means absolutely nothing, to the people of westeros born high and low, these are symbols of status. Take for example Baelor the Blessed, to us the audience, and to the nobles in westeros, he's a lunatic religious zealot that ended up starving himself to death, because his sister had sex outside of marriage with his cousin. To the commoners in Westeros, he's literally a saint, he build septs left and right, preached to them, was in touch with them, and would often empty the royal treasury for charity. He even walked 1000 miles barefooted to negotiate peace with Dorne, and walked over a pit of venomous snakes to free a Targaryen, and although he was bitten many times, he still survived, and even after his death, he is remembered fondly by the lowborn in Westeros. For context, Baelor is the grandson of Rhaenyra and Daemon and the first truly mad king ( I wouldn't categorize Maegor as mad, more like cruel, sadistic and malicious but not mad). Viserys I was one of the worst kings ever, he himself became king only because Jahaerys passed Rhaenys in the line of succession, yet he's hypocritical and still backs Rhaenyra, if he truly wanted Rhaneyra to rule, he should have named her hand of the king, keep her close so she can learn how things work, do not remarry, and once he became too sick and Rhaenyra was ready, just abdicate and leave the throne to her, oh and do marry her to Daemon, so that he would pose no threat to the succession either. Also, he never even gave Rhaenyra so much as a slap on the wrist for having obvious bastards that everyone knew they were bastards, except him, but still trying to pass them as legitimate successors despite the fact that Rhaenyra herself knew she would not have an easy succession. Threatened violence against anyone who would question this, including Corly's brother. Oh and the fact that he allowed for way too many Targaryens to bond with dragons, before him, there was a limit to how many dragon riders can exist at a time. He was begging for a succession crisis to occur after his death and he got just that. I'd put him in the top 4 worst Targ kings ever right up there with: -Aegon II Targaryen - Dude was reckless, unprepared, threw gasoline on the fire that was the Dance of the Dragons, and despite essentially winning the civil war, he still somehow managed to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory by being his usual cruel, impulsive and unreasonable self. - Aenys Targaryen - Aegon the conqueror's son, a weak willed coward who despite having all the power in the world and competent loyal advisors was still close to losing absolutely everything his father gained, and the only reason this did not happen, is because of his gigachad half brother Maegor and his mother Visenya who were there to fix the shitshow he caused and they were exactly what the Targaryens needed at the time -Viserys I Targaryen - Already Explained -Aegon IV - Shit king jealous of his son, even accused him of being a bastard, gave out titles and tax breaks based on what girls other lords brought to his court. And on his deathbed he legitimized all of his bastards which he had a shit ton of, just to spite everyone and make sure Daeron II, his son would have a hard time upon succession. Aerys II - This one doesn't need any explanation either.
I just published the first book in my series just last month, so I'm rooting for you dude. Whenever it's published I'd buy it 💪🏾 I just hope that if there's a future, that my work is interpreted, dissected and analyzed by folk like you 🙏🏾
@@browniebear I agree. People unironically believe Rhaenyra is a hero and defend everything she or her side does. They definitely DO believe it beyond just "rooting for a side because it's fun" which would be okay. And it's leading to some toxic discourse amongst the fanbase.
Happy FriYAY to ya! I was wondering when we would get a new video from you. Great insight and keep up the great POV content of HOD! Well, I am definitely #TeamBlack if we go off of S1 of HOD (my view is based solely on the show version as I know the book version is vastly different) and just for the sake of diversity in representation of the Targaryen clan. Once S2 begins I know my affliation will sway to the middle, neither TeamBlack or TeamGreen.
The Targaryens truly lost themselves in Westeros, the only thing left of them is one last member, who doesn't even have white hair or know what the pride of having the blood of old Valyria is The conqueror was wrong, he had to create a new empire for the dragons, not use them as intimidation tools for the lords and peasants, but create a place where they are respected and worshiped like in old Valyria (could be done anywhere, it didn't have to be in Westeros if it wasn't possible)
that is no wrong i dont know where to start... first of all: the valyrian were conquerors whose empire was built on the destruction and enslavement of their neighbours. So in itself aegon did exactly what you meant he should do. Second: yes not beeing worshipped enough was exactly the problem the targaryen were dealing with. Third: Where? where should i create a new empire without having to conquer the people living in an area? And please dont say the stepstones or any other uninhabited rock. Empires are built on people, not on dragons. Where ever he settled he needed somekind of peasant ready to produce food and other products. i could go on but i think it should be clear that the targaryens certainly did not lost themselves in westeros. Not when they never truly accepted the culture they conquered in the first place. Their failures come from a dangerous mix of self-entitlement and complete disregard for the conquered peoples ideals and morals, which resulted out of their valyrian-empire mindset.
Great video👍 I think as the show goes on more people will start to come around and accept that both sides have pros and cons and by the finale it will be pretty clear, if they keep it similar. I am just here for the drama and the tears. Maybe it's easier for me because I like basically every single character, so no matter what happens I will still feel both hype and sad for the whole journey. Also (maybe this could be an idea for another video, idk), I would like to hear your opinions on the argument about the show supposingly favoring the Blacks. I don't agree with this sentiment, but I also understand how someone could come to this conclusion. Just food for thoughts.
Surely the main point of there being no clear-cut good or bad team here, is that the readers/viewers can pick a side for themselves, rather than being told who they're supposed to like and support.
I agree for the most part but I don't know about the long night part with the white walkers, I'm not saying a targaryen needed to rule to unite the realm because only the north and vale was united to fight the white walkers but we all know the white walkers were supposed to be a much bigger deal, I think all of westerns will face them in the books and I do think that Jon and Daenerys will play a more important role in the great war, I think Dan and Dave just wanted to be unpredictable.
But there is an bad side, the aristocracy is the bad side(both black and greens are villains) they wage war for their own egotistical reasons, but the most affected by this civil war is the smallfolk, the comom people. That being said i am team green mostly because of Rhaenyra's entitlement, i just don't support those type of people. She literally had everything in her own hands and fucked up everything, she could've chosen her marriage, or have legitimate children, or even marry aegon and uniting the claims, or mantained alicent as her friend and ally, but she choose to antagonize and betray the trust of alicent, throw a fit instead of choosing an good husband and while married, and being heir to the throne, had 3 bastard sons who she wants to gaslight the realm into believing they're true born. She wanted to be heir, but didn't want the responsabilities it comes with the job, and her logic is that the law works when is to legitimize her, but not when it demands marriage or trueborn children... what a hypocrite.... and also because i like the colour green.
I agree with everything you wrote but also one of the main problem I have with her bastards is that they really obvious like in the show the have brown hair and white while both parents have white hair and there father is darker skinned. Like she knows that is obvious but just thinks everyone has to accept it because she wants it that way. I mean why couldn’t she find some other Velaryon to have offspring with in order for her children and her to be accepted. This for me just shows that she lacks foresight and an understanding of the people she wants to govern. Like she creates issues for herself is willing to kill anyone who dare to say to obvious about her children and when she doesn’t get what she what she wants she cries to her father about how unfair it is.
@TheEmpyreanSpeaks i pretend season 7 and season 8 didn't happen lol. you make a good point the dance of the dragons was pointless and the Targaryens themself know this. i think that one reason why Aegon IV Targaryen legitimized all of his bastards on his deathbed. you brought up an other point Targaryens tie to dreams and prophecy, both play in save it and destroy it.
Great video At this point there really is no team green or team black I'm with no ones side This whole war is a feud between Alicent and Rhaenyra and many people will die because of that Had these two been on good terms after Alicent married her father everything would be different latter on
Are we watching the same show???😂😂😂 because based on what the majority audience and show runners are saying there seems to be a 80/20 divide favoring TB. I agree with you on “ theirs no good or evil” but I disagree on everything else because even the writers aren’t following this logic THERE IS CLEARLY A SIDE TO ROOT FOR IN THE SHOW (team girl boss) and there is the issue. There’s no nuance.
I would have force Aegon and Rh to marry if I was their king father. Rh would rule and Aegon would be king consort. Alicent was dumb to not unite immediately for her children lives. She is the second wife
Well, in DNA of Song of Ice and Fire always where message about how bad monarchy is as ruling system. Teams are pointless, because no one here is right. They all wrong.
not unless you buy into the unhinged theory that Aemond and Alys Rivers’ bastard was Arya’s ancestor through the Tully side of her family. (I don’t, but that softened the blow for me a little bit 😂)
I also am more neutral on the discourse - I lean Team Black because I just feel for Rhaenyra and her struggles, and I also just have a thing for dragon queens, however I am not strictly for either side politically, because both sides make extremely flawed decisions that end up costing the people of Westeros so much.
Here why I support team black has nothing to do with the people has to do with legal right the king names a heir and the king usually names the first born son but this king named his daughter the first born child now as we learned from lord B and the queen that never was it not a law the first born son is king just tradition king broke tradition names his daughter by law he is allowed to name who he wants Queen Rhae had the legal right and Daemon as king regent makes her legal claim stronger don’t get me wrong I think Rightful Queen Rhae is a better person then the faux Mean green queen who just jealous of Rhae and her stupidity she thinks she right Targaryen are gone Jon snow who was the prince who was promised and so does matter who sit on the throne
Great video but I would argue that the greens deserve the right to the iron throne because they have built alliances n was governing kings landing for 6 years peacefully. Not to mention the Hightowers have run old town for 2000 years. The Targaryens to me r more conquerers then rulers.
Being "named heir" isn't enough when said heir is the embodiment of breaking tradition of not just Targaryens but Westeros. Rhaenyra would literally have to be Jaehaerys I reborn for her to be accepted and even then some would still doubt her. She is fighting an uphill battle from the start and has to act accordingly to put her best foot forward but she can't even be a decent ruler, only pretend when it's convenient for her. It's the King's Word (a king who later dies and whose final words become misinterpreted to contradict his previous word on succession) vs Centuries of law and tradition. The result is inevitably conflict, but more accurately: Tragedy everywhere (Dynasty, Targaryen survivors, dragons, Noble Houses both Paramount and Vassal and smallfolk). So no, it's not that simple.
@@browniebear Westeros is only 100 years old and traditions are still being built either way what traditions did she break? Why would she have to be Jaehaerys reborn to be accepted? Cuz Otto said so? What do you know about her ruling or her policy? She hasn’t done anything so what has she pretended to be a good ruler of? The kings word is final and the king made his Choice and again by this point Westeros I’d only 100 years old so where you getting centuries of traditions… So yeah it is once again that simple… nice try tho
@@jaed3183 Noble Houses in Westeros existed thousands of years before the conquest. Therefore traditions have been carried out for centuries. The male claim comes before the female to inherit whether it's at Duskendale or Winterfell or wherever else in the Realm (as it is now known). In Old Valyria, the male claim came before the female claim to inherit. Targaryens were one of the more minor of Dragonlord Ruling houses but still they kept in line with centuries-old traditions. There's a reason Aegon I was the ruling King and not Visenya the ruling Queen. Yes Visenya held great power but it's through Aegon's allowance (similar to Jaehaerys with Alysanne). We can gauge based on her character as we have seen her, her philosophy and how she would work as a ruler. She has had practice in politics and she's shown promise but also extreme neglect and faults. Also in F&B it's shown how dreadful she managed her reign and why it only lasted 6 months. Her character faults caused her downfall; disregard for nobles unless it was convenient to her, poor tactical acumen and paranoia, disregard for small folk, reluctance to utilize strengths in warfare such as dragons even when she has superior numbers. The King's Word is final until the king is dead and/or percieved unfit to rule. In this case Viserys did not prepare Rhaenyra or the Realm anywhere near enough for her to succeed him. People aren't going to follow just because "the King's word is final". There had to be efficient plans in motion to cause the necessary shift in public opinion (similar to how Jaehaerys and Alysanne sent 7 Preachers of the Faith spreading "The Doctrine of Exceptionalism" so that ppl would accept Targaryen incest.) Whether you like it or not, her being a woman is a major obstacle in the storyworld and that's why she would have to be perceived as Jaehaerys I reborn and actually be very close to his level so that she could then be able to back up her claim and win over the Lords Paramount and Vassal. One great example is Rhaenys "The Queen Who Never Was", she may not have been at Jaehaerys's level but she would certainly have been better than Viserys or Aenys or Maegor and certainly better than Rhaenyra or Aegon II. Just because Aegon II wouldn't make a good king doesn't mean his claim isn't the strongest. Look at Aenys, Aegon IV, Aerys I, Aerys II. Aegon II's claim is stronger than Rhaenyra's since it holds tradition in tact and does not open Pandora's box for succession disputes throughout the Realm. There was no "villain/hero" no "right or wrong side", ultimately the war was a tragedy; tearing the realm apart, smallfolk caught in the crossfire as collateral and the beginning of the fall of the dynasty (symbolized through the death of Targaryens and dragons). If you can't understand that then the story went over your head and you have poor storytelling comprehension.
It's pointless because everyone dies. But even after Rhaeynra dies , team black supporters continue to fight on behalf of her son to put him on the throne. Aegon III the new king.
@@g23s23 that still hasn't happened yet. But regardless, Otto may be a slime ball, but he never beat his wife to death, and he never had an innocent guard killed.
@@DreamersOfReality technically, that was Aemond. And it was an accident. If we're being honest, Rhaenyra, at least on paper, would make a terrible queen. Daemon would make a worse king.
You got that dragon pit scene all wrong I’m afraid. She was escaping and probably went out the only way she could. Through the pit hole that was covered up for the coronation. The same pit hole we see Vermax ascending from. You’re not going to convince me she had another way out where she could’ve safely flown out the back door to deliver the news to Dragon Stone, but instead busted through the boards and killed a bunch of small folk out of wanton brutality and to “look smug.” I believe she took the only or quickest route available to escape with Meleys. Yall keep forgetting that she was locked in her room and is trying to escape in one piece. It’s also a common theme in GOT’s The small folk suffer most when high lords play their GOT’s and that’s exactly what episode 9 is. This also sets up the Storming of the Dragon Pit.
kinda wild how every one of these videos takes everything the wrong way to try and to make how they view the show more “elite” you contradict yourself multiples times and some of your points contradict them selves with things the writers and george martin have said, wild.
It's even wilder how you're exposing your insecurity and projecting hard. TheEmpyrean is undoubtedly one of the best ppl breaking down this show and its characters. His philosophy is on par with ppl like Just an Observation, Like Stories of Old, Thomas Flight and LocalScriptman.
The whole concept of this video is flawed because there is a Moral center in the Game of Thrones Universe. The Starks. When it comes down to it, The Houses swore an oath to Rhaenyra. Anyone who broke that oath is in the wrong.
I think you’re forgetting the conflict around that “moral center”. Breaking an oath is a dishonorable act in Westeros yes, but they can be broken for good reason. Jaime broke his oath to protect king Aerys so he could save the people. The Baratheon’s, Tully’s, Arryn’s, AND The Starks all formed a rebellion to go against the Targaryens because of their cruelty. Even the Lannisters who family head was friends with the king at one point turned on him(though that was more for selfish gain). Jon Snow swore an oath to Daenerys and he still killed her for the greater good. Keeping an oath doesn’t make the act good or “right”. Sure maybe in terms of law but personally? Morally? No. The houses swore to Rhaenyra but the people who made those oaths are mostly dead and their descendants don’t owe Rhaenyra anything. She treats them like trash when she’s young and then isolates herself from them when she gets older. She’s a stranger to them and has done nothing to truly instill any sense of loyalty in her vassals. Not everyone is a Stark that will follow along blindly for no reason but even then as I mentioned before they can be pushed over the edge too. So an oath doesn’t matter if you’ve done nothing to warrant the keeping of it.
The Starks during the Dance are not the same as those during the main series. And I'm not convinced Cregan Stark was that much for TB since he only showed up right after the Dance ended, and before that he only sent 2000 men south, who, while extremely experienced, is still not what a fully dedicated war effort looks like. Just look at the Hightowers for the Greens or the Riverlanders for Rhaenyra, THAT is what dedication to a cause looks like.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks Your reasoning doesn't make much sense here either. Because we're talking about a secession. One can make that argument about anybody who inherits the throne. "Well what have they done for me?" That's just not how Westeros works. They literally usurped the throne Because she was a girl and they saw the benefit that they could get with Aegon II being in Power. That's not how it works. If you go against that you're in rebellion. Then it boils down to what you were saying, Is it a justified rebellion? How can anybody say it is?? Something to warrant war??? Nah
@@KaiHung-wv3ul You have to look into why they showed up late. They had to stay behind and feed the North. He had every intention of showing up with as many men as possible, He just couldn't do it
It's not pointless. It's meant to represent two parties in a war. And it still matters which team does more worse, and it is Team Green. Team Black has committed some heinous deeds too, but it all stems from how Team Green went about things. So they both aren't great, but the usurping team is the worse. And in terms of Aemond and Daemon, Aemond has burnt innocent people, Daemon never did that. Daemon has not done things worse than Aemond has.
Aemond killed one dude so far in season 1 n Daemon has groomed his niece, executed people with no trial in episode 1, went to war without king’s permission, ambushed n killed his wife, threatens that wife’s family, threatens to take that dead wife’s family land, killed an innocent man to fake laenor death, executed vaemond from behind, endangers the white worm in episode 2, n of course CHOKES RHAENYRA AFTER SHE LOST HER CHILD N FATHER……
The problem is they made Rhaenyra the protagonist. There shouldn’t have been a protagonist, just characters who were pieces on a chessboard. Even GOT wasn’t as biased when the writers were adapting Martin’s books.
I agree with you
True they are making Team Green fully villain. I don't understand why it’s happening when RR Martin is one of the creator of this series!
There are no heroes in GOT: just the gray and the dead. In that regard, they completely forgot the spirit of GOT and it's non-traditional, unique approach to character morality ... one of GRRM's most defining traits.
also the fact that the whole realm is going to suffer over a family dispute.
Aegon is better for the realm. The precedent should be set and stay that way. Otherwise, succession wars like this will happen constantly.
Totally agree-I think that’s the point though because wars in general reign terror down on the common people ❤️🩹
*the afterthought here being that Aegon is very young and has a long time to really screw up the tealm(old J the conciliator and Vizzy the peaceful are exceptions to the rule more often than not for this fam I mean once ‘conquered’ setting up future and just straight day to day and such👑🤴🏼🫅🏼
@@KingSlayer_. The precedent was set in 101AC. Rhaenyra was the heir presumptive but upon the birth of Aegon he became the apparent.
I have no stakes in this game, but my question to TB fans is this: since a person's gender has no bearing on their ability, why does their age or bloodline matter? Why are Targaryens, or older siblings considered more able to govern the realm? Isn't that just as stupid?
I mean, at least TG fans are consistent.
Thank you for actually addressing how much each side kind of sucks.
TB stans do seem to have more of the most vapid audience members tho but overall leaning hard on either side is ridiculous
When you have war there were always crimes ob both side. When country X invades country Y, for sure many soldiers and leaders Y will be made controversialdecisiosn and commit atrocities to win war. But it is still country X that started this war - all further things are their fault, not Y. Same here. Greens commited usurpation solely because of Rhaneyra's gender, not because she was bad ruler. Therefore all war atrocities that Black faction will commit during war are Greens fault and Greens alone. Rhaneyra throne was stolen and if she wants to win it back, she can't be saint. That's reality of war. But moral rights is on her side, since it where Greens that wronged her.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 That really depends on how you view succession laws, whether a king can bend the law for himself or not.
@@KaiHung-wv3ulEven president in democratic coutry can pardon (meaning: released without aquittal) criminals - and we are not talking about dmocracy: we are talking about absolute monarchy. Head of state can always affect the way country and law work, so choosing his heir was Viderys' privilage and right. None objected when named Rhaenyra his heir. Everything that happened against her was treason.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 fighting a war to defend your country from foreign aggression is a lot more morally justified than fighting a war merely to win a throne from your own half brother that you feel entitled to, stolen or not. Rhaenyra had the option to negotiate a peace, nobody forced her to go to war.
Also no country Y is still responsible for its own war crimes. Just because you are not responsible for the war doesn't mean you cannot be held accountable for war crimes, what an absurd notion is that?
Last jut not least, Rhaenyra's cause isn't as righteous and infallible as you want it to be.
I like characters on both sides so I'm just here for the fun.
I like all the Greens and only Daemon and maybe Corlys on the Blacks. The Blacks just aren't that interesting.
Team dragons, we took the real L :(
A moment of silence and lighting for the funeral pyres of:
Vhagar, Dreamfyre, Vermithor, Silverwing, Caraxes, Meleys, Syrax, Seasmoke, Sunfyre, Tessarion, Vermax, Arrax, Tyraxes, Stormcloud, Moondancer, Morghul, Shrykos and poor little Morning who didn't even see warfare or revolt and yet still barely grew before dying
@@browniebeardamn, all those dragons-dead. What a loss.
Swear to God, the scene where Silverwing tries to raise Verimothor's wing 3 times but realises he's dead made be actually tear up when I first read it. Saddest death in the entire series.
But hey, it might have never actually happened.
Also the fact that most of the houses on either side didn’t even care about the conflict, they just wanted to gain more power and influence. The Lannisters helped carry the green team just to get back in the big leagues.
Funny how Tyland Lannister was Aegon III's best friend and favorite Hand of the King.
the starks needed two years to get down into the south.... robb managed it in 5-6months🤣
hour of the wolf my ass
@@CorvoThan The Late Cregan Stark.
This is the case in this saga taking place a hundred and more years or so before the present setting of ASOIAF, and is the case throughout ASOIAF, as far as some in the fanbase goes. Concerning themselves with who calls the shots for the kingdom, regardless of how far into the ground the common person gets buried. Even after the creator of the series, GRRM, emphasizes how trivial these wars and arguments are in light of what's coming for the world from the lands beyond the wall.
George spent 30 years on a series that screams “war is bad, feudalism is bad, misogyny is bad, WAR IS BAD” and people still think rhaenyra deserves to rule because her dad had a dream.
you literally said mysogyny then said that Rhaenyra isn't the rightful heir -_-
both are awfull
I think the problem is its critques don't build a better world ideas and comprimise does.Westeros may change but, not the stuff he critiques.
@@VergilNotVigillegally based on the great council she can't be
@@VergilNotVigil Her father didn't change the laws. He could have changed them to match Dorne, but that would have given them so much unrest and conflict, because of all the older sisters of other noble houses who suddenly are able to inherit before their younger brothers.
King Viserys only wanted to make an exception for his daughter and her children and nothing more. She has a claim, but with not changing laws Aegon has a claim as well. And due to her having illegitimate children he actually does have a better one, because his children with Halaena are legitimate. And pointing things pointing things out isn't mysogyny, that's just how it is.
on your final point about targaryens misinterpreting dreams, I wonder if Daena the dreamer didn't exactly dream of the doom but rather only that if her father moved to dragonstone they would become the most powerful dragonlords and family in the world, and so he did just that and it came true... just not in the way they expected
Daenys*
She was the dreamer, not Daena
Hey if you're the only dragonriding family left, you're the most poweful by default.
I agree completely. At least in the book - I have no idea how closely HBO will follow it - there is no winner IMO, just a long bloodbath.
JAMES
The clip of the crowning makes more sense now than it did at the time when the war begins-the commoners will suffer greatly because of this war
The core problem with the idea of a "rightful king" is it presumes the legitimacy of monarchy. Also, I don't think Otto actually believed Aegon should rule because of TrAdItIoN, that's just a handy PR spin. What he really wants is his blood on the Iron Throne.
Exactly he could care less about tradition in fact he was pro rhaenyra as long as it kept Daemon from the throne
@@roguerodriguez8215 I mean kinda understandable considering that Daemon would be horrible as a King.
@@chiaraschweizer5665True but oddly enough, Daemon would've been a good Hand for Viserys. They would've balanced each other out:
- Viserys, passive and conflict-avoidant, sparks admiration of the ppl/nobles
- Daemon, impulsive and efficient, sparks fear (resulting in respect) and loyalty (look at the Gold Cloaks).
Viserys tried to be as hands off as he could but with Daemon as Hand, Viserys would be forced to keep him in check and take active duty in governing the realm with his brother. It's the perfect match that never was and could not be, such is often the tragedy in this storyworld
Exactly! Otto just wanted his family on the throne.
@@browniebear No Daemon is a sociopath. Charismatic, but he has no emotional empathy, he only does what is best for himself and he disregards other peoples feelings constantly. Plus politics is mostly about using soft power, but Daemon only knows how to use hard power. He would be the second most powerful man if the continent and being able to use soft power is crucial for the position.
Overall, I can agree.
In the end, I find that it was a tragedy how it all ended. I may not like all the characters personally, but I don't believe they all deserved to deal with the death and sorrow to come.
So many circumstances involved here, so many viewpoints and interpretations, etc that led to this windfall. Not due to just any one person (though arguably, if any one single individual had the most responsibility, it would be Viserys but I digress).
Overall... it's the fact they waged war upon each other and it ruined everything truly sets the reality of how Civil Wars are among the bloodiest, most passionate kind of war
I feel bad for the dragons, poor things
Agree!
I think its also very much something done on purpose by the showrunners, to keep people interested..and it makes sense - to do so!!
It could be worse, with no discussions or theori talk!
So happy about the show in general ❤❤
To me it was Viserys that started it all. He should have named Rhaenyra heir until time he had a son. He should have married her to Daemon. Unknowingly, Viserys made so many mistakes as king.
Unrealistic or not Viserys' plan for everyone in the family to get along would have avoided anyone dying. His way of achieving this was terrible but he was aiming for the right thing.
and i wish for world-peace, my way of doing it may be as existing as viserys´ was but i still wont get a noble-prize for peace
yeah, I can't argue with that. @@CorvoThan
He was weak, foolish and naive. He favored Rhaenyra above everyone else including his brother. He completely neglected his children with Alicent. And the fact that he named his trueborn eldest son Aegon but still wanted Rhaenyra to rule makes me question how much faith he actually had in this dream of his. He allowed Rhaenyra to go to Dragonstone for 6 years completely and remain completely oblivious to everything happening at court during that time, all while also stacking his small council with green sympathizers. Aegon has the conqueror's name and wields Blackfyre, the conqueror's sword, to me and you, yes, it means absolutely nothing, to the people of westeros born high and low, these are symbols of status. Take for example Baelor the Blessed, to us the audience, and to the nobles in westeros, he's a lunatic religious zealot that ended up starving himself to death, because his sister had sex outside of marriage with his cousin. To the commoners in Westeros, he's literally a saint, he build septs left and right, preached to them, was in touch with them, and would often empty the royal treasury for charity. He even walked 1000 miles barefooted to negotiate peace with Dorne, and walked over a pit of venomous snakes to free a Targaryen, and although he was bitten many times, he still survived, and even after his death, he is remembered fondly by the lowborn in Westeros. For context, Baelor is the grandson of Rhaenyra and Daemon and the first truly mad king ( I wouldn't categorize Maegor as mad, more like cruel, sadistic and malicious but not mad). Viserys I was one of the worst kings ever, he himself became king only because Jahaerys passed Rhaenys in the line of succession, yet he's hypocritical and still backs Rhaenyra, if he truly wanted Rhaneyra to rule, he should have named her hand of the king, keep her close so she can learn how things work, do not remarry, and once he became too sick and Rhaenyra was ready, just abdicate and leave the throne to her, oh and do marry her to Daemon, so that he would pose no threat to the succession either. Also, he never even gave Rhaenyra so much as a slap on the wrist for having obvious bastards that everyone knew they were bastards, except him, but still trying to pass them as legitimate successors despite the fact that Rhaenyra herself knew she would not have an easy succession. Threatened violence against anyone who would question this, including Corly's brother. Oh and the fact that he allowed for way too many Targaryens to bond with dragons, before him, there was a limit to how many dragon riders can exist at a time. He was begging for a succession crisis to occur after his death and he got just that. I'd put him in the top 4 worst Targ kings ever right up there with:
-Aegon II Targaryen - Dude was reckless, unprepared, threw gasoline on the fire that was the Dance of the Dragons, and despite essentially winning the civil war, he still somehow managed to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory by being his usual cruel, impulsive and unreasonable self.
- Aenys Targaryen - Aegon the conqueror's son, a weak willed coward who despite having all the power in the world and competent loyal advisors was still close to losing absolutely everything his father gained, and the only reason this did not happen, is because of his gigachad half brother Maegor and his mother Visenya who were there to fix the shitshow he caused and they were exactly what the Targaryens needed at the time
-Viserys I Targaryen - Already Explained
-Aegon IV - Shit king jealous of his son, even accused him of being a bastard, gave out titles and tax breaks based on what girls other lords brought to his court. And on his deathbed he legitimized all of his bastards which he had a shit ton of, just to spite everyone and make sure Daeron II, his son would have a hard time upon succession.
Aerys II - This one doesn't need any explanation either.
I just published the first book in my series just last month, so I'm rooting for you dude. Whenever it's published I'd buy it 💪🏾
I just hope that if there's a future, that my work is interpreted, dissected and analyzed by folk like you 🙏🏾
People know it’s wrong, it’s just fun to have a favorite team to root for. Simple
Most ppl siding Black or Green definitely don't know they're missing the point, you're giving them too much credit
@@browniebearespecially if you’ve been on hotdtwt…
@@browniebear I agree. People unironically believe Rhaenyra is a hero and defend everything she or her side does. They definitely DO believe it beyond just "rooting for a side because it's fun" which would be okay. And it's leading to some toxic discourse amongst the fanbase.
Happy FriYAY to ya! I was wondering when we would get a new video from you. Great insight and keep up the great POV content of HOD!
Well, I am definitely #TeamBlack if we go off of S1 of HOD (my view is based solely on the show version as I know the book version is vastly different) and just for the sake of diversity in representation of the Targaryen clan. Once S2 begins I know my affliation will sway to the middle, neither TeamBlack or TeamGreen.
It's pointless cuz we know how it all ends
not everyone. Plenty of people I know refuse to read the book and still try to debate me (mostly my sister) and it’s *oof* sometimes 😂
@@joeysalazar98 I mean even without the books you have to realize who wins lol Arya talks about it in the show
@@noobslayer10101so does your boi joffrey
The Targaryens truly lost themselves in Westeros, the only thing left of them is one last member, who doesn't even have white hair or know what the pride of having the blood of old Valyria is
The conqueror was wrong, he had to create a new empire for the dragons, not use them as intimidation tools for the lords and peasants, but create a place where they are respected and worshiped like in old Valyria (could be done anywhere, it didn't have to be in Westeros if it wasn't possible)
that is no wrong i dont know where to start...
first of all: the valyrian were conquerors whose empire was built on the destruction and enslavement of their neighbours. So in itself aegon did exactly what you meant he should do.
Second: yes not beeing worshipped enough was exactly the problem the targaryen were dealing with.
Third: Where? where should i create a new empire without having to conquer the people living in an area? And please dont say the stepstones or any other uninhabited rock. Empires are built on people, not on dragons. Where ever he settled he needed somekind of peasant ready to produce food and other products.
i could go on but i think it should be clear that the targaryens certainly did not lost themselves in westeros. Not when they never truly accepted the culture they conquered in the first place.
Their failures come from a dangerous mix of self-entitlement and complete disregard for the conquered peoples ideals and morals, which resulted out of their valyrian-empire mindset.
I'm on Team Shepherd / Pro Peasant Riots.
Same here, they’re the real mvps
True turn Westeros into a theocracy of the smallfolk, i like that, the shepherd is the goat.
They deserve a democracy like Braavos.
Which I think sucks besides the kids dying is this is what led to the extinction of the Dragons 😭
This is about a destruction of a house
Great video👍
I think as the show goes on more people will start to come around and accept that both sides have pros and cons and by the finale it will be pretty clear, if they keep it similar.
I am just here for the drama and the tears.
Maybe it's easier for me because I like basically every single character, so no matter what happens I will still feel both hype and sad for the whole journey.
Also (maybe this could be an idea for another video, idk), I would like to hear your opinions on the argument about the show supposingly favoring the Blacks.
I don't agree with this sentiment, but I also understand how someone could come to this conclusion.
Just food for thoughts.
Surely the main point of there being no clear-cut good or bad team here, is that the readers/viewers can pick a side for themselves, rather than being told who they're supposed to like and support.
I agree for the most part but I don't know about the long night part with the white walkers, I'm not saying a targaryen needed to rule to unite the realm because only the north and vale was united to fight the white walkers but we all know the white walkers were supposed to be a much bigger deal, I think all of westerns will face them in the books and I do think that Jon and Daenerys will play a more important role in the great war, I think Dan and Dave just wanted to be unpredictable.
According to Preston Jacobs Archmaester Gyldane wrote this account of the Dance of the Dragons to justify Robert's Rebellion.
But there is an bad side, the aristocracy is the bad side(both black and greens are villains) they wage war for their own egotistical reasons, but the most affected by this civil war is the smallfolk, the comom people.
That being said i am team green mostly because of Rhaenyra's entitlement, i just don't support those type of people. She literally had everything in her own hands and fucked up everything, she could've chosen her marriage, or have legitimate children, or even marry aegon and uniting the claims, or mantained alicent as her friend and ally, but she choose to antagonize and betray the trust of alicent, throw a fit instead of choosing an good husband and while married, and being heir to the throne, had 3 bastard sons who she wants to gaslight the realm into believing they're true born. She wanted to be heir, but didn't want the responsabilities it comes with the job, and her logic is that the law works when is to legitimize her, but not when it demands marriage or trueborn children... what a hypocrite.... and also because i like the colour green.
Definitely team green over Rt.
I agree with everything you wrote but also one of the main problem I have with her bastards is that they really obvious like in the show the have brown hair and white while both parents have white hair and there father is darker skinned. Like she knows that is obvious but just thinks everyone has to accept it because she wants it that way. I mean why couldn’t she find some other Velaryon to have offspring with in order for her children and her to be accepted. This for me just shows that she lacks foresight and an understanding of the people she wants to govern. Like she creates issues for herself is willing to kill anyone who dare to say to obvious about her children and when she doesn’t get what she what she wants she cries to her father about how unfair it is.
Ah, fellow Team Smallfolk supporter.
@TheEmpyreanSpeaks i pretend season 7 and season 8 didn't happen lol. you make a good point the dance of the dragons was pointless and the Targaryens themself know this. i think that one reason why Aegon IV Targaryen legitimized all of his bastards on his deathbed. you brought up an other point Targaryens tie to dreams and prophecy, both play in save it and destroy it.
Great video
At this point there really is no team green or team black
I'm with no ones side
This whole war is a feud between Alicent and Rhaenyra and many people will die because of that
Had these two been on good terms after Alicent married her father everything would be different latter on
Show is the definition of grey characters theirs no good or evil theirs just actions and consequences 💯
Are we watching the same show???😂😂😂 because based on what the majority audience and show runners are saying there seems to be a 80/20 divide favoring TB. I agree with you on “ theirs no good or evil” but I disagree on everything else because even the writers aren’t following this logic THERE IS CLEARLY A SIDE TO ROOT FOR IN THE SHOW (team girl boss) and there is the issue. There’s no nuance.
@@youngveteran6368 STFU. 80/20? really? i hope you father is who your father is
I mean, the book negates any "side" being good or right anyway lol.
I would have force Aegon and Rh to marry if I was their king father. Rh would rule and Aegon would be king consort. Alicent was dumb to not unite immediately for her children lives. She is the second wife
Actually Otto suggested this but King Vissy the not true dragon dreamer was against it.
@@ladyviking89when did this happen?
Team green💚
Well, in DNA of Song of Ice and Fire always where message about how bad monarchy is as ruling system. Teams are pointless, because no one here is right. They all wrong.
Well I'm mostly refusing to see s6, s7, and s8 as head Canon.
Arya killing the Night King is one of the worst decisions ever made in media.
not unless you buy into the unhinged theory that Aemond and Alys Rivers’ bastard was Arya’s ancestor through the Tully side of her family. (I don’t, but that softened the blow for me a little bit 😂)
@joeysalazar98 so in the end Aemond's descendent killed the Night king? 😂😂😂😂
I'm team Second Sons
Im totally team Rhaenerya.
I also am more neutral on the discourse - I lean Team Black because I just feel for Rhaenyra and her struggles, and I also just have a thing for dragon queens, however I am not strictly for either side politically, because both sides make extremely flawed decisions that end up costing the people of Westeros so much.
Team Black because I think a kings wishes should be honored
Here why I support team black has nothing to do with the people has to do with legal right the king names a heir and the king usually names the first born son but this king named his daughter the first born child now as we learned from lord B and the queen that never was it not a law the first born son is king just tradition king broke tradition names his daughter by law he is allowed to name who he wants Queen Rhae had the legal right and Daemon as king regent makes her legal claim stronger don’t get me wrong I think Rightful Queen Rhae is a better person then the faux Mean green queen who just jealous of Rhae and her stupidity she thinks she right Targaryen are gone Jon snow who was the prince who was promised and so does matter who sit on the throne
Team Dragons ❤ 🐲
words of wisdom
we were going good on this until you included jon as a targaryen. then you lost me LMFAO
Personally i suport none as they make the show into house bad guys and house good guys
Great video but I would argue that the greens deserve the right to the iron throne because they have built alliances n was governing kings landing for 6 years peacefully.
Not to mention the Hightowers have run old town for 2000 years. The Targaryens to me r more conquerers then rulers.
All targs are bad, Bobby B is Azor Ahai
Honestly. It’s not about team green or team black. It’s just misogyny and tragedy.
Anti-feminism isn't anti-woman. It's depicted that way today but that's not the truth of it.
@@matro2 ….👀 I can assume what you could mean but I’d also love to hear more.
team black because rhaenyra was named heir
Like it's really that simple
Being "named heir" isn't enough when said heir is the embodiment of breaking tradition of not just Targaryens but Westeros.
Rhaenyra would literally have to be Jaehaerys I reborn for her to be accepted and even then some would still doubt her. She is fighting an uphill battle from the start and has to act accordingly to put her best foot forward but she can't even be a decent ruler, only pretend when it's convenient for her.
It's the King's Word (a king who later dies and whose final words become misinterpreted to contradict his previous word on succession) vs Centuries of law and tradition. The result is inevitably conflict, but more accurately: Tragedy everywhere (Dynasty, Targaryen survivors, dragons, Noble Houses both Paramount and Vassal and smallfolk).
So no, it's not that simple.
@@browniebear Westeros is only 100 years old and traditions are still being built either way what traditions did she break? Why would she have to be Jaehaerys reborn to be accepted? Cuz Otto said so?
What do you know about her ruling or her policy? She hasn’t done anything so what has she pretended to be a good ruler of?
The kings word is final and the king made his Choice and again by this point Westeros I’d only 100 years old so where you getting centuries of traditions…
So yeah it is once again that simple… nice try tho
@@jaed3183 Noble Houses in Westeros existed thousands of years before the conquest. Therefore traditions have been carried out for centuries. The male claim comes before the female to inherit whether it's at Duskendale or Winterfell or wherever else in the Realm (as it is now known).
In Old Valyria, the male claim came before the female claim to inherit. Targaryens were one of the more minor of Dragonlord Ruling houses but still they kept in line with centuries-old traditions. There's a reason Aegon I was the ruling King and not Visenya the ruling Queen. Yes Visenya held great power but it's through Aegon's allowance (similar to Jaehaerys with Alysanne).
We can gauge based on her character as we have seen her, her philosophy and how she would work as a ruler. She has had practice in politics and she's shown promise but also extreme neglect and faults. Also in F&B it's shown how dreadful she managed her reign and why it only lasted 6 months.
Her character faults caused her downfall; disregard for nobles unless it was convenient to her, poor tactical acumen and paranoia, disregard for small folk, reluctance to utilize strengths in warfare such as dragons even when she has superior numbers.
The King's Word is final until the king is dead and/or percieved unfit to rule. In this case Viserys did not prepare Rhaenyra or the Realm anywhere near enough for her to succeed him. People aren't going to follow just because "the King's word is final". There had to be efficient plans in motion to cause the necessary shift in public opinion (similar to how Jaehaerys and Alysanne sent 7 Preachers of the Faith spreading "The Doctrine of Exceptionalism" so that ppl would accept Targaryen incest.)
Whether you like it or not, her being a woman is a major obstacle in the storyworld and that's why she would have to be perceived as Jaehaerys I reborn and actually be very close to his level so that she could then be able to back up her claim and win over the Lords Paramount and Vassal.
One great example is Rhaenys "The Queen Who Never Was", she may not have been at Jaehaerys's level but she would certainly have been better than Viserys or Aenys or Maegor and certainly better than Rhaenyra or Aegon II.
Just because Aegon II wouldn't make a good king doesn't mean his claim isn't the strongest. Look at Aenys, Aegon IV, Aerys I, Aerys II. Aegon II's claim is stronger than Rhaenyra's since it holds tradition in tact and does not open Pandora's box for succession disputes throughout the Realm.
There was no "villain/hero" no "right or wrong side", ultimately the war was a tragedy; tearing the realm apart, smallfolk caught in the crossfire as collateral and the beginning of the fall of the dynasty (symbolized through the death of Targaryens and dragons). If you can't understand that then the story went over your head and you have poor storytelling comprehension.
@@browniebear tough the king named her heir so she is heir
It's pointless because everyone dies. But even after Rhaeynra dies , team black supporters continue to fight on behalf of her son to put him on the throne. Aegon III the new king.
I know Team Green are the antagonists, but Team Black have much more innocent blood on their hands.
blood and cheese?)
@@g23s23 that still hasn't happened yet. But regardless, Otto may be a slime ball, but he never beat his wife to death, and he never had an innocent guard killed.
No, he just instigated a war instead...
@@DreamersOfReality technically, that was Aemond. And it was an accident. If we're being honest, Rhaenyra, at least on paper, would make a terrible queen. Daemon would make a worse king.
@@DreamersOfReality as if demon a saint
Are you 19 or something?
Nice
When you're team green but you don't want to say it.
You got that dragon pit scene all wrong I’m afraid. She was escaping and probably went out the only way she could. Through the pit hole that was covered up for the coronation. The same pit hole we see Vermax ascending from. You’re not going to convince me she had another way out where she could’ve safely flown out the back door to deliver the news to Dragon Stone, but instead busted through the boards and killed a bunch of small folk out of wanton brutality and to “look smug.” I believe she took the only or quickest route available to escape with Meleys. Yall keep forgetting that she was locked in her room and is trying to escape in one piece.
It’s also a common theme in GOT’s The small folk suffer most when high lords play their GOT’s and that’s exactly what episode 9 is. This also sets up the Storming of the Dragon Pit.
Rhaenys never did that in the book so it shouldn't have been in the show. I'm team Green and still think that scene was stupid.
That's no what the showrunners said happened. They've said before it was a show of force repeatedly.
kinda wild how every one of these videos takes everything the wrong way to try and to make how they view the show more “elite” you contradict yourself multiples times and some of your points contradict them selves with things the writers and george martin have said, wild.
Wild indeed.
It's even wilder how you're exposing your insecurity and projecting hard.
TheEmpyrean is undoubtedly one of the best ppl breaking down this show and its characters. His philosophy is on par with ppl like Just an Observation, Like Stories of Old, Thomas Flight and LocalScriptman.
You are just a salty blackcels😂
The whole concept of this video is flawed because there is a Moral center in the Game of Thrones Universe. The Starks. When it comes down to it, The Houses swore an oath to Rhaenyra. Anyone who broke that oath is in the wrong.
I think you’re forgetting the conflict around that “moral center”. Breaking an oath is a dishonorable act in Westeros yes, but they can be broken for good reason. Jaime broke his oath to protect king Aerys so he could save the people. The Baratheon’s, Tully’s, Arryn’s, AND The Starks all formed a rebellion to go against the Targaryens because of their cruelty. Even the Lannisters who family head was friends with the king at one point turned on him(though that was more for selfish gain). Jon Snow swore an oath to Daenerys and he still killed her for the greater good. Keeping an oath doesn’t make the act good or “right”. Sure maybe in terms of law but personally? Morally? No. The houses swore to Rhaenyra but the people who made those oaths are mostly dead and their descendants don’t owe Rhaenyra anything. She treats them like trash when she’s young and then isolates herself from them when she gets older. She’s a stranger to them and has done nothing to truly instill any sense of loyalty in her vassals. Not everyone is a Stark that will follow along blindly for no reason but even then as I mentioned before they can be pushed over the edge too. So an oath doesn’t matter if you’ve done nothing to warrant the keeping of it.
Your reasoning is so simplistic
The Starks during the Dance are not the same as those during the main series. And I'm not convinced Cregan Stark was that much for TB since he only showed up right after the Dance ended, and before that he only sent 2000 men south, who, while extremely experienced, is still not what a fully dedicated war effort looks like. Just look at the Hightowers for the Greens or the Riverlanders for Rhaenyra, THAT is what dedication to a cause looks like.
@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks Your reasoning doesn't make much sense here either. Because we're talking about a secession. One can make that argument about anybody who inherits the throne. "Well what have they done for me?" That's just not how Westeros works. They literally usurped the throne Because she was a girl and they saw the benefit that they could get with Aegon II being in Power. That's not how it works. If you go against that you're in rebellion. Then it boils down to what you were saying, Is it a justified rebellion? How can anybody say it is?? Something to warrant war??? Nah
@@KaiHung-wv3ul You have to look into why they showed up late. They had to stay behind and feed the North. He had every intention of showing up with as many men as possible, He just couldn't do it
It's not pointless. It's meant to represent two parties in a war. And it still matters which team does more worse, and it is Team Green. Team Black has committed some heinous deeds too, but it all stems from how Team Green went about things. So they both aren't great, but the usurping team is the worse. And in terms of Aemond and Daemon, Aemond has burnt innocent people, Daemon never did that. Daemon has not done things worse than Aemond has.
Aemond killed one dude so far in season 1 n Daemon has groomed his niece, executed people with no trial in episode 1, went to war without king’s permission, ambushed n killed his wife, threatens that wife’s family, threatens to take that dead wife’s family land, killed an innocent man to fake laenor death, executed vaemond from behind, endangers the white worm in episode 2, n of course CHOKES RHAENYRA AFTER SHE LOST HER CHILD N FATHER……
The Blacks have killed way more innocent people than the Greens have