Thing is, none of the things Alicent accuses her of, are actual moral issues. All of them are reflections of Alicent being a traditionalist, judging people based on faulty premises
@@LateStageCap They are moral issues in Westeros and they have serious consequences within that world. We are talking about a medieval setting here, being "traditionalist" is the norm and Alicent is completely in the right according to the morals and laws of her world, just not ours, which is pretty irrelevant within the setting.
@@pg1448 Morality isn't dependent on society, you're being a moron. People like you would say that freeing slaves was immoral because it's against the norms and had serious consequences in our old world.
Did you forget that Aemond killed his nephew, and that Aegon has tons of bastard kids that he files the teeth and nails off so they can kill eachother easier? And that he consistently rapes handmaidens that his mother has to kill for him? In the laws of westeros, Alicent should've been tortured and gelded for striking princess Rhaenyra with a knife. Alicent hires the psycho Larys Strong to murder his own brother and father. That act is called Kinslaying, and it's the greatest sin possible in Westeros. How the fuck are these not "moral issues"? You're just slut shaming, admit it. You're being a hypocrite just like Alicent.
Rhaenera was a spoilt brat from season one, no patience, rush and impatient kinda reminds me of Renly Baratheon. Alicent and Otto Hightower were patient, and diplomatic with their approach but because of the rush decision makeing by the blacks they ultimately forced their hand. The greens were the good guys the blacks weren't
Every Targaryen is a spoiled brat my guy.. they’re born into the most prestigious house to live in Westeros. Aegon ii did jack shit to get a throne that never belonged to him, THATS SPOILED. Rhaenyra has suffered 10x more than Alicent, Otto, and Aegon. She lost 2 children in the final episode, lost her birth right, her father.
The greens are the good guys? They literally put an alcoholic, rapist on the throne who doesn't even have the abilities to control anything even himself... Yeah, good guys 🤦
@@lierriodid nothing ? First of all he’s male. And how can you defend rhaenyra ? She literally gets whatever she wants. Gets to be heir despite being a woman, the line of succession runs through her sons, makes agreement to whore around despite being married, her sons being illegitimate BASTARDS, orders the assassination of her spouse, incest with her uncle. Like how is she the good guy
Can we please talk about how ALL of Rhaenyra's kids are technically illegitimate? Obviously Jace, Luke, and Joffrey were fathered by Harwin Strong, but her other kids are bastards, too. Laenor was still alive when she married Daemon, and he's presumptively still alive throughout season one. If we're getting technical, that means her marriage to Daemon is illegitimate; and subsequently, so are Aegon, Viserys, and Visenya. Even if they are legally legitimate, they're bastards by the standards of their family's religion.
Their family religion? You mean custom. Then no. Targaryens are allowed to practise polygamy and partial incest. But after the doom of Valyria, the ones who remained in Westoros mostly adopted their religion for a peaceful reign. Though, as u may know, some royals upheld their own Targaryen customs more so than the others, who opted to the religion and customs of Westoros. So according to Westoros's customs and the Faith of the Seven, yes, Rhaenyra's children are bastards. But those aren't Targaryen customs.
I think the show made Laenor live more in consideration of modern tv troupes that kill of gay characters and also to make Rhaenyra look better. But in-world it messes up the legitimacy of her children with Daemon but it also shows how Rhaenyra and Daemon consider themselves and their line above the laws of gods and men. I wonder if Laenor dies and Daemon becomes Rhaenyra's sole husband would that de facto make her younger sons legit?
@@happilyevernever4289 If we are getting technical the Valyrians practiced polygamy i.e. a man having multi wives but there is not record of polyandry i.e. a woman having multi husbands. However I'm not sure if the Valyrians had any concept of bastardy. Orys Baratheon was well-known to be the half-brother of Aegon the Conqueror but he was not given a surname denoting his baseborn status nor was he treated as tainted by his siblings. It seems Orys was just completely accepted and was even his brother's right-hand man.
Rhaenyra totally did this to herself, and she *could* have had the opportunity to be respected if she didn’t insult every other lord and flout her responsibilities as a teen and an adult - and this is coming from someone who likes her character. Looking at it through a feudal society perspective rather than a modern one, I can totally agree that the Greens are morally correct in the Dance of Dragons.
Yeah even if they were justified, their main goal was power. That’s the whole reason Otto married Alicent to viserys. Even if her kids were legitimate there still would’ve usurped the throne from her
@@jordynturner4244 makes them no different than any other lord let's not forget the velaryon wanted laena to be married to viserys the king wanted a son and he had many maidens to pick his next bride and he chose alicent who proved to be fertile and gave him 3 sons and a daughter.she did her duty and gave him his son which he had always wanted remember his first wife died trying to give him his son and alicent did that and more.viserys should have named aegon the heir and be done with it
@@ratikantrout1865 yeah but he didn’t love alicent. If he had a son with aemma then it would’ve been different. He clearly didn’t care for his kids with alicent as much as his one child(Rhaenyra) with the women he truly loved. Otherwise he would’ve just named him the heir.
@@jordynturner4244 that's why viserys was the worst Targaryen king 👑 even for argument sake let's say alicent kids decided to let their elder sister become queen there is no guarantee their sons and daughter would do the same so war was inevitable the day viserys decided to keep rhaenyra as heir after having three sons by alicent if rhaenyra wants to sit the throne and make sure her blood line continues she has to kill them all.this is what criston Cole used to convince aegon to fight otherwise his siblings will be killed. Daemon killed vaemond and rhaenyra fed him to her dragon.plus she wanted to sit her bastards on her throne after her. Only reason rhaenyra line continued because aegon ll didn't kill her son aegon lll(viserys was presumed dead) even though rhaenyra had his son killed using blood and cheese.
honestly it’s started from VISERYS UNDERMINING RHAENYRA HIMSELF. dude literally announced to the whole world that his heir is rhae but then decided to get married and produce more kids (therefore threatening her position) instead of forcing her to get married and start producing babies to secure the line
While I feel that both sides are capable of immense acts of skulduggery, I feel like a lot of people ignore how much the Greens initially tried to prevent a potential civil war from even rearing its ugly head. Alicent is actually a good queen who actually gets Viserys to make important choices instead of pussyfooting. And Otto's suggestion to betroth Rhaenyra to Aegon was actually a valid one. Gross and incestuous? Sure, but Targaryens. Was he hoping to get his grandson in power? Definitely. Could it lead to a Ptolemy-esque civil war later on? Possibly, yes. But at the time, that might've been the best solution to end any objections to the succession. Especially when the aim was to keep Daemon away from the throne and as far down the line of succession as possible, which is a great damn decision because Daemon, bless him, would be a disasterous king.
considering that team Black is the designated heirs of the King but got that usurped under their noses, Team Green has little legitimacy to really stand on beyond being "cooler". Kings in Westeros DO have a ton of power. It's that power to do what they want when they want that is the reason WHY the dynasty has often run into problems from The Dance of Dragons to the Blackfyre Rebellions to Robert's Rebellion.
@@brianlong2334 I think the problem is that Otto is such a prick that it's painfully obvious he'd see the realm burn to have a Hightower on the throne. But Rhyaris did herself no favors being a petulant brat most of her life but petulant or not she is the designated heir.
@@atro-city The majority disagree on that, that's why the green's are not as popular. Most people don't dislike the greens they straight out despise them. The majority of the relm also don't like them, as even a lot of the reach lords fight for the blacks, spoilers!
I'm Team Green from day 1 and I will never understand how people in Team Black label us as misogynists just because we think the golden girl Rhae Rhae doesn't deserve to sit on the iron throne
because they fail to recognize that rhaenyra is not a feminist. she's not in it for the women. she's in it for herself (and the supposed prophecy of the prince that was promised but there are arguments against her from that angle too).
I think that in the last few episodes, the problem as a whole with the writing is that they are doing their utmost to put a modern perspective over the show i.e Rhaenyra is supposedly rejecting the "patriarchy" and social norms which makes her great and stunning and brave in the eyes of the writers. This in turn makes them start to write Alicent as significantly worse because she is championing the traditional way of thinking where Aegon should inherit on the grounds of the law and ancient customs so she ends up being seen as regressive on the rights of women in the show. This could actually be a really good contrast if it was written well, the problem is it's not. Which is why it only exists in the show. In the books both of them are major assholes and they're terrified to try and show them in that way.
@@kpacf Stannis's claim is based on Roberts being legitimate. Robert's is only legitimate if you believe that right by conquest trumps right by inheritance. So in order to claim, Stannis has to explicitly claim that right by conquest is the more legitimate claim. And unfortunately somebody else took the throne from him by force. So that doesn't really work does it?
I am 100% Team Green. 💚 It's completely wild to me that so many people are pro Team Black. The King can't just name an heir. Bastards cannot inherit unless the rest of the line is dead/disowned, and they've been legitimised by the King. So many viewers just look at it from a modern POV instead of caring about the laws and traditions of the fictional world they're watching... The show writers have made Aegon the worst version of him they could (in the book he's NOT a rapist but is said to be a bit of a letch, lusting after his servants etc. but that's very different from being an actual rapist like they've written him to be in the show!) just to make Rhaenyra look better. It's so clear to me that they're making Aegon "evil" so that they can have Rhaenyra come and be the saviour of the realm. But for all the reasons you listed, she's never been suited to be Queen, and legally, it was no longer her throne to take, the moment Aegon was born.
All true. Rhaenyra's entire claims hedges on "daddy said so." The fact so much of Westeros fought to have a woman rule them seemed to be anachronistic.
@@matro2 I agree!! Plus, the fact that Rhaenys supports Rhaenyra's claim is so fucking dumb. I get that it's for her granddaughters but honestly it's so stupid. She should be pushing for the older granddaughter to inherit Driftmark and the younger one to marry Aemond or Daeron. The convoluted hoops these characters go through to try and convince us that Rhaenyra should be heir is ridiculous. Rhaenys saying "all you want is a window" like, bitch, all you did was whatever your husband wanted. Even at the expense of your own son and daughter. What a pathetic hypocrite
I think you're kinda reading way too much into it. If that's the case why did westros literally let Cersai run shit for years when there was a "man" who could be doing it. I get that she manipulated her sons but towards the end it became very clear who was calling the shots and yet a bunch of men said "yeah that's cool, I'll follow her orders" it's actually really just the same story being retold except this is about Hightower Vs Targayan rather than Stark vs Lannister. Furthermore there are other queens and princesses in the history before the dance of dragons as well. Who really cares anyways? We all know how this ends the story has already been told. Don't watch the adaption on screen if you can't handle some changes to the writing that ultimately will come to the same conclusion. They have to write these shows so women can watch it too you know lol can't just be "I have the bigger dick than you" contests throughout but if you think that's what it should be then you'd realize team black has the bigger dick too lol Aemon was still a weirdo and his one eyed uncle murdered a child as well as his dragon cuz he got emotional. That's not very logical at all now is it?
One of my biggest reasons for not liking rhaenyra and not being able to even imagine her on the throne is her inability to play the game , During the run of GOT we hated cersi and baelish but we had a certain respect to them for their ability to understand the court and the realm and twist their own threads around the spider web that is the seven kingdoms, kingslanding in particular was always called a pit of vipers, so how would a princess of the realms be so incompetent in playing the game? She brings 3 bastards into the fold as well and don't get me wrong I am all for women empowerment but she isn't advocating for bastards rights around the realm or smth like that She advocating for her own bastards to get a claim that by law shouldn't go to them and she didn't even think to atleast screw someone who looks like her husband, putting her children lives in danger and her claim to question, She is living in an era where women even princess like her are obligated to follow rigid social standards or else they are punished, we see that with jahaerys daughters who did similar things getting punished by the king for those actions, so why in the name of whatever gods those targaryens worship, does she keep making these stupid mistakes that ultimately now causing a civil war ?
The game had become that though. Spiders and snakes in the high grass was what westeros had become. Even the honorable northerners seemed to toss aside tradition(and their oaths) when the the long winter approached. My point being, Cersei was a cunt. A treacherous unworthy dishonorable bloodthirsty cunt. The only game they played was brutality. Lets not forget the entirety of the War of the Five Kings begins because of Little Fingers move to send a letter to Ned blaming Jon Arryns death on the Lannisters. The plot was thick for sure but look how little fingers scheming ended for him? It seems, on the whole, MOST of the families in this current timeline dont usually plot and scheme in the same treacherous ways as the characters of GOT. Everything seems distasteful and dishonorable excluding the one man we've met through allicent who has a foot fetish and can command rhe deaths of men like Little Finger might.
The Targaryens don't need to manipulate people like Cersei and Littlefinger need because they have dragons. In that way, Rhaenyra can just keep being a spoiled child and her father isn't enough to convince her otherwise.
@@Pedro-ss2qrI’ll just make a spoiler alert if you don’t really know the ending in the books… … … yeah, her dragons couldn’t really help her much in the end, so maybe she should’ve also played the game
Team Green 💚 Stability / Values / Tradition / Faith / Bloodline Ps: Probably Aegon would not reign alone at the beginning, he would have the full support of Otto (who is one of the best politicians in the kingdom) and Alicent (who have experience and wisdom)...Team Green deserves the throne and are more competent for the position . also Aemond has my heart 💚
When Rhaenyra finally takes the throne, it is after she loses both Luke and Jace, and she faces betrayal after betrayal. Aegon is no different. They both become monsters.
@@janellejulianajoy Both became? Liek wtf, have see actually seen House of the Dragons? Aegon is a menace. Mf made bastards before he became an adult.
She was that from the beginning! It was all about doing whatever the h she wanted with no sense of duty to her subjects. Yet people seem so surprised...
As far as I know in this series, no man has ever tried to push their illegitimate children to inherit their titles, like Rhaenyra did. I wouldn’t be against Rhaenyra being ruler if she wasn’t so stupid. She never thought ahead or considered the consequences of her actions.
@@Hear.myvoice The "Strong" boys are bastards. That's all they are and they have 0 claim to the Iron throne. Just because Viserys was blind to Rhaenyra's stupidity doesn't make bastards "Targaryens". And if they are Targaryens then so are the other Targaryen bastards like Hugh Hammer, Ulf etc. But I don't see you guys fighting for their claim??
I agree that it would be wiser if Viserys changed his mind and name Aegon his heir when they went hunting in his birthday. Rhaenyra would understand, we saw that while she was feeling left out, she was ready to give up claim and step aside when she was still young and unmarried. When she has children od her own it was already too late for peaceful change as both mothers (Alicent and Rhaenyra) were scared that the other will kill children. If boys grew up all knowing that Aegon will be king no questions asked, then they would not be danger to each other. By the time of kings death it was too late. Greens and blacks had No choice but fight. Even if Rhaenyra and Alicent could work things out, children grew up in hatred and they are adults now…
But also rhaenyra grew up being a cup bearer and after sat at the small council meeting preparing to rule while aegon wasn’t if he was named heir at episode 3 on his birthday he probably would of grown up being a cup bearer and would of also say in the small councils and better suited to actually ruling
@Ali Chaudhry yeah alicent was right about viserys, I personally think viserys is one of the worst kings, if rhaeynra was the the only child yeah it makes sense but once aegon was born he had to forsake one but to weak to chose one, he could of named ageon heir on his birthday, everyone was expecting it even rhaeynra, he was just setting things up to end up in war, he should of never rehired Otto, let rhaeynra set up the members she wants for her small council, but didn’t, also plenty of lords chose rhaeynra I don’t think Otto expected a lot to side with rhaeynra, once alicent played her cards and Otto had to play along my guess would be with the reach, westerlands, riverlands, others could be convinced not to chose or chose their side, also I do lean more black myself but do like and dislike characters form both sides
We see this with Aemond and Luke. Alicent was wanting a peaceful solution and Rhaenyra was considering it but the hatred with the kids had already been cemented
There are a bunch of things about the show that I don't like. The clear Black favoritism is one of those. They make every Green character as unsympathetic as possible or make them seem wrong, have them and their supporters as horrible and disturbing as possible. And we tone down some of the worst actions of the Blacks to make them more sympathetic(killing Velaryons brother is said to just be Daemon being Daemon, Laenor is not assassinated, but instead skips off to wherever, etc;) Sure, we can say over and over again "Rhaenyra was chosen by Aegon II", but can we not at least make both sides have a point? Or does this writing have to be the black and white good and bad characters as it was for the last season of "Game of Thrones"?
Greens were ALWAYS not sympathetic. In books they are TERRIBLE. Alicent is very complex in show, while in book she was total villain. Also sad expression on Aegon II face make me feel some pity for him. I have no sympathy to book Aegon.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 We get a better look at Aegon II in the show, but they added some things to make him worse(raping the servant girl and having kids who are in the Flea Bottom fighting pits, etc;)
@@phousefilms He isn't specifically say to assault women in books, however he still had many illegitimate offspring and given his megalamoniac tendencies, it isn't far fetched to assume some of those mothers were assaulted by him.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 It does say in "Fire and Blood" that he gropes many serving girls and Mushrooms version of events on them finding Aegon after Viserys's death is him watching children in the pitfight while being pleasured by a girl of fourteen (or younger). Now, I know that the Greens are, by and large, wrong because they went against Viserys's ruling. However, the show is piling on so many damn villainous qualities and evil moments and totally tilting things to the Blacks being "heroic"that it sort of annoys me. Keep in mind, I started getting into GOT, then ASOIAF because both sides did good and bad and they were morally grey. Season 8 was such a @#$&show because they ignored that and just went "nope, this character is straight good" or "this character is straight evil", among other terrible writing. It seems like a lot of the worst actions of the Blacks are being toned down or wiped out(Daemon seducing Rhaenyra in the brothel, Laenor Velaryon's assassination), while we make the Greens so evil, it's a wonder they aren't twirling moustaches(Aegon II rapist, Otto Hightower wanting to murder Rhaenyra, Larys "OnlyFans"strong and his foot fetish). I am worried that they're going to make Blood and Cheese hired by Otto Hightower to inspire Aegon, just so Daemon and Rhaenyra aren't hated. Even Aemons eye being slashed out, Aemond is considered the bad guy(for fighting back when the kids attacked him first).
@@phousefilms Kids attacked first but with kicks. It was Aemond who first take rock in hands. That was very dangerous and slashing his eye is perectly justified act of self-defense. Now, I know many people have problem with portrayal of Black, however I personally don't feel this way. Altough I'm on Rhaenra's sides, Daemon's creeps me out and actually he was made less sympathetic - he is cold toward Laena, towards his daughter Rhaena, he dispatched his first wife and he is also very cold toward Jacaerys (I wouldn't be too surprised if he and Jace were in conflict in s 2 even if they are on the same side). I don't think they would do such thing with Blood and Cheese. However they could make Rhaneyra's unaware of her husbad actions. (Well, we don't knwo how much she actually was aware in book and their relationship started crumble few months after neverthless...). So Daemon was made more sneaky and Allicent symapathetic. Even Aemond regret chasing Luke, while he didn't according the book. I think we can safely exepct complex behaviours on both side in next season ;) They simply had too little scene to flesh them out in s 1, focusing more on Rhaenyra and Alicent.
I became team green the minute that Rhaenerya tried to have her 10 year old half brother who had just lost an eye 'sharply questioned' (basically means tortured) over an true insult and Viserys didn't even do shit about it as he was more concerned for Rhaenyra and her children's feelings and rep then to his own mutilated son. Now I don't condone Alicent trying to take out Lucerys eye but you can't call Alicent an evil mother, flawed and imperfect yes but she does love her children in her own way (The way she looks after Helaena and rightly disciplines Aegon when hes being a shit, unlike so many mothers back then) If it was the other way round and Luke had lost an eye and Rhaenyra or even Daemon tried to do the same thing and go for Aemond, many no doubt would all be on the blacks side.
The insult was true but they forced Rhaenyra to a gay man... What do you think she should have done? 💀 Aemond called the little boys bastards; threatened to kill them anx disrespected the memory of Laena in front of her daughters while Alicent was trying to usurp the throne the whole time.
@cs.a.745 Starting this debate respectfully, i underrstand your points and Rhae's situation, but they are still bastards children who, from a legal point, have no right to throne, and a lot of people in court know this. She is basically an original tamer version of Cersei Lannister, who gets lots of hate for having bastard children while Rhaenyra gets off scott free Aemond also didn't start the fight. Baela and Rhaena charged for Aemond first, to which he rightfully defended himself, and the boys then attacked him. Also, Rhaenyra and Daemon hooking up on the day of her funeral is apparently not disrespecting Laena's memory. Alicent from day one has been abused and has been constantly warned that Rhaenyea would harm her children if she got the throne. I say Lucerys cutting her son's eye out and Rhaenyra wanting him tortured gives her good reason not to want Rhaenyra on the throne. If she's willing to torture her 10 YEAR OLD BROTHER over an insult, what would she do if she was queen. All team blacks stans, come back when a son for a son episode goes on air and tell me, do you still support team black
@@lenaastolfi3782 Yes, they are bastards but the king and their own father accepted them as son/grandson so you can't do anything rightfully except for accept it... Aemond "stole" the dragon in their eyes and disrespected their mother with that act. Of course they attacked him, Aemond was the older, he should have been smarter 😐 Yes, Otto "warned" Alicent about Rhaenyra killing her children on the throne... But that's simply bullshit. Alicent was stupid enough to believe that Rhaenyra would do such a thing with her half-siblings and best-friend 🙄 And yes, I will support team black no matter what they will do... Otto devided the realm; Alicent provoked Rhaenyra and tried to usurp her the whole time; Aegon is a terrible king and human being and Aemond started the whole shit by killing an innocent kid who was directly sent as a messenger 💀
@cs.a.745 So a 10 year old is stupid for getting attacked, trying to defend himself and getting his eye knife out. He was still a child as much as the others were and it didn't matter at the end becuz Vhagar chose Aemond. She a centuries old dragon that has fought in wars, if she didn't want Aemond riding her she would have made it very clear by killing him but she let him and thats the final decison in the end. Tell a lot of victims of abuse that they are also stupid to believe their manipulators. My original point still stands, her son was mutilated and Rhae wanted blood, and Alicent felt she had to protect her children (in the wrong way, but complicated) and years of paranoia and manipulation drove her at the end. She didn't want bloodshed. She just wanted her to be respected and loved, but she had no more real friends and very little emotional support. Her husband was always forgetting who she was or was too sick. Her children were all she had, and she loved them as much as Rhaenyra's loves hers, but she struggled to show it. She just wants to do things to go well and perfect like they should have been. I do agree that what Aemond did to Lucerys was reckless and started a war. But i know that Aemond didn't intend for Vhagar to eat Lucerys. Aemond was always under the impression that they could control the dragons becuz good old viserys most likely did not sit him down and explain to him that dragons are not slaves and all that shit. He was shocked and horrified at the end at what he did, stupid, yes, intentional, defo not. He just didn't understand a dragon was not a slave Simple as that and once again come back when a son for a son episode comes on in season 2 and once again tell me if you still support the blacks for everything they do. Remember an eye for an eye, a son for a son. But which son? Tell me which one. Thank you for the debate
@@lenaastolfi3782 I read the book, I know what will happen and it won't change what I think... The greens started it. In my opinion this is the main/biggest crime and everything comes after.
Exactly. And by marrying Daemon she made herself incredibly unappealing to bend the knee to, cause he's hated, it's a open secret to the Vale he killed his wife, he's brutal, violent, a warmonger and would probably try to murder his brothers entire family bar Rhaenyra and her children because he's so fixated on their superiority, and now he'll be king consort, rule through her and get to run the realm, exactly what the lords and viserys did not want. Her allies are the velaryons reluctantly and only by Baela and Rhaena being bethrothed, the vale because jeyne needs her to rule so she can be legitimate in ruling the vale despite her lack of children and rather open fondness of other women, the starks merely because they swore a oath but they do not love her, the riverlands similarly, and that's it. She did not bother making allies, and indeed most nobles have never even seen her or her kids and have no idea if she's even suited to it, she insulted many lords during her looking for suitors to their faces, let bloodshed happen, and never bothered to interact, so the greens look better as they have been in kings landing for years, interacting, Alicent ruling as queen regent in the stead of Viserys, Aemond, Heleana, Aegon are known to the realm, entertaining guests and being i suspect more well liked then the blacks, due to the fact they aren't some super entitled god complex people and not having bastard kids.
The Greens also have the coolest and most badass dragon besides Vhagar which is Sunfyre. Show only watchers haven't seen what Sunfyre is capable of and the heart and perseverance of that young dragon
You can tell the show runners want you to root for the blacks because on the surface they seem to be in line with their progressive thinking and for that reason I just cannot stand them. Not that I care very much about this show to begin with lol
Always glad to see the rare Green supporter around here! I personally believe in Rhaenyra's claim better (as the named heir), but as you've suggested medieval history never really went that smoothly. With Aegon around and her siring of very obvious bastards, there's way too many things that put her claim to question. That's a recipe for disaster in the medieval times, especially when other claims are present. Viserys failed to secure her succession in life, and the king's words don't hold much power in death. That being said, I don't think it's right to say Aegon was never taught to rule. Alicent has prepared him for the possibility his whole life, and Aegon responded to this by rejecting his duty. He doesn't have the attitude of a ruler but that hasn't stopped kings from having stable rules (e.g. Bobby B's reign, early Aerys/Tywin reign). Maybe he could have been better given proper role models - Alicent isn't a natural mother and Viserys largely ignored Alicent's children, but alas we're stuck with current Aegon and it won't get any better. Both sides are a mess, but I sympathize with the Greens way more and I like how you've articulated all my thoughts about them. We know how it'd all go given spoilers, but that doesn't take away from the fun of rooting for them.
@@podes2204 Of course not. But Rhaenyra wasn't even allow to act in first place. If she was terrible ruler ad Greens proposed Aegon as better alternative, then sure - go for it. But Greens never alowed her to rule - they crowned Aegon immiediately and not because Aegon was fit to rule, but because he was a man.
@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Start using that brain of yours and put things into perspective. This isn't modern times so stop using modern terms. In these times you had to respect the laws and rules of the system and be content with that.
Here are some responses for anyone who is Team Green and is arguing someone on Team Black. TLDR "Everything the Greens do can be justified really well in the context of a medieval world." 1. "King's chosen heir." Laws matter way more than one king's preference. If it isn't law then custom or precedent can play the same role if they are the only existing framework. When a king choses an heir that's not the heir by the laws it's called an alternate sucession. Alternate sucessions basically never work as the heir by law usually shows up with the support of the whole country and claims the throne anyway. Jaehaerys I convened a great council because he needed something other than the king's mere world to guarantee his successor's absolute right to the throne. Btw, King Viserys I was descended from the second son so truth be told Rhaenys should be the Queen even by male preference primogeniture (Not really). The only thing keeping Viserys' side of the family on the throne is direct male descent Jaehaerys I succeeded over Aerea and he succeeded over Rhaenys. That's common law and precedent established and upheld twice over. 2. "Continuity of sexist rules" Now folks, pay attention because this probably the most essential thing you need to get across in a potential debate. The whole point of hereditary monarchy and succession rules held to consistently ARE to create a stable continuity. If it's thrown out the window the realm devolves into conflicting claims and civil war. We see this in both HOTD and Game of Thrones. "I'm king because of the common law." "Yes, but I'm queen because the last king named me." "Oh, we are throwing rules out the window? I'm king because I'm most suited!" This is the worst case scenario so while yes, the system is biased and unfair just like other institutions of the time such as hereditary office and feudalism there was a necessity for them. 3. "Alicent is wrong for going against Rhaenyra." If her 3 sons are the first heirs by law and Viserys picks Rhaenyra then he's just disinherited all of her sons for no reason. As a medieval queen they are probably all that she has. Is it wrong for her to fight for them after they were abandoned by their father? No! She was married off from far away and has no friends at court. She's more of a victim than Rhaenyra. 4. "Rhaenyra wouldn't eliminate her brothers." Realistically it would be extremely stupid for her to not. Even if none of her 3 brothers fight for the throne their descendants down the line probably would. You can see why Jace marrying Helaena would solve nothing. 5. "Rhaenyra's children being bastards doesn't matter because perception is what matters." First, everyone knows they are bastards so perception is not on her side. Second, the issue is not that she has bastards. (Lets not be sexist!) The issue is that they are in line over her legitimate sons. This horrible decision made her lose a lot of support she would've otherwise had. 6. "Hightowers heirs are not true blood of the dragon. Rhaenyra's family is." Irrelevant because it is false and doesn't effect claim to the throne. Also, the hyper elitist Targaryens who think their valyrian race makes them better than everyone else make the most evil Targaryen kings. The best Targaryen kings did their best to assimilate as much as possible. 7. The violence of the Greens against the Blacks was not justified." Blood and Cheese. When your enemy within the country literally walks in to your castle and butchers the innocent child heir to the throne you can't let that slide as king. It would destroy the very foundation of your kingship if the people who did it were not obliterated. No wonder the common folk were team Green. 8. "Aemond is a war criminal." Luke is a bastard who cut out the eye of a prince in a medieval world. Real medieval rulers did more to their enemies with torches and soldiers than Aemond did with Vhagar. 9. "Otto is pure evil." There's nothing that makes Otto exceptionally evil for a man of his setting. Most lords would've taken the opportunity to marry their daughter to the unmarried king without a son as well. In fact, he's such a pragmatic and tallented statesman that even Jaehaerys recognized him. 10. "Daemon is cool." Daemon is the villian of the show. He's a bad influence on Rhaenyra. If you don't believe me just think about every major action he took so far, who he married, which battles he fought. They were all to get him closer to the throne. Even being so enthusiastic about fighting the dance when nobody else was. Blood and Cheese is completely unjustifiable even in a medieval world. Again, no wonder the small folk were Team Green! 11. "It is not clearly defined in Westeros what legitimacy means." If you are crowned by the high septon then you are a king of Westeros. It's as simple as that. In the medieval world the church is the most powerful institution. If the church supports a King then small folk and lords alike will flock to him but if he's excommunicated they will abandon him probably. Notice how most of Rhaenyra's supporters follow the Old Gods or the Drown Gods or the Valyrian Gods. The Greens have the largest cities being King's Landing, Oldtown, and Lannisport and the population. This is why they always have a nice royal army running around btw. 12. "Team Black is right because they win in the end." Team Green won. The right of male line Targaryens became absolute. Aegon III's regency council was very Green. The future Targaryen kings were supposed to be descended from the Greens through Queen Jaehaera but she died prematurely. 13. "Viserys was progressive." He supports Rhaenyra only because she was descended from Aemma. He wants Aemma's descendants on the throne at all costs because he still feels guilty. If Aegon was Aemma's son he would've been named by Viserys in an instant. He doesn't really care about making the realm better for other women and neither does Rhaenyra. 14. "Aegon is not fit to rule." Neither is Rhaenyra. The difference is that Aegon has people around him who are excellent rulers. Rhaenyra has Corlys but she discards him after he gives her good advice.
Agreed on every point 😁💚 But also furthermore 3. Rhaenyra and Daemon also showed themselves to be ruthless. Having Otto removed for being a threat, asking for her little brother to be tortured to save face, 'killing' Laenor to marry each other, and executing Vaemond. The greens have every reason to believe she'd kill them. And marrying Helaena to Jace just makes her a potential hostage and puts her and her descendants in danger should his legitimacy be questioned down the line. 5. The team black supporters/Rhaenyra/Daemon/Dany fans are going really hard on the whole blood supremacy thing and it's getting really weird. And then they'll switch to caring about being progressive just to call team green misogynistic which is just hilarious to me. Cause Rhaenyra 'Ill fight for my rights but screw everyone else's' Targaryen and Daemon 'I like to compare my wife to a sheep and then kill her' Targaryen are not feminists 😂 13. Rhaenyra has had so long to prepare and to prepare Jace. Yet as soon as she faces a political problem she has to go ask daddy to save her. And despite the fact that she's fluent in Valyrian she clearly didn't speak it to him as a kid and now he has to learn it. In conclusion, you're totally right 💚💚
@@cheshirevixen8881 You are right as well! Something I forgot to mention is that for 11 you could also say that Rhaenyra was never acknowledged as monarch by any the future Targaryens including her own son's even though they are all her descendants. Also, if none of this logic gets through to team Black fans a response could just be to say that GOT villains are better because they use the actual medieval political systems of the setting to win and that's what made the original Game of Thrones and characters like Tywin, Varys, Olenna, and Petyr so great. Dragons and video game esqe boss moments did not. In this aspect, team green has the total advantage. They basically only have 3 dragons but win using their dragons properly and effective leadership. They are always using them to guard their armies or scout for example. I promise that Sunfyre, Vhagar, Tessarion, and the Greens will put on a real show. If Aemond didn't break formation once then Aegon II and the royal army would have their absolute victory. 💚💚💚
@@yusufraage8554 If that is the case Bobby B would not have overthrown the Mad King because his word was law even though his coin flip landed on cray cray, just like Mad Queen Dany.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 This has nothing to do with misogyny. First Daemon is written like a character that has sociopathy/narcissistic personality disorder. He lacks empathy as already shown in the very first episode when he smiles! while mutilating people without a fair trial. You can hear someone yelling "r@pist" and the person gets their balls cut off. This reminded me of history and which hunts ( which we had plenty where I live, I'm from Europe ) and it is absolutely disgusting behaviour. He uses the divorce rock on his wife, uses slurs, chockes his 3rd wife, ruins Rhaenyras reputation on purpose and leaves the crown princess in the city in a dangerous place alone, after acknowledging himself that parts of Kings Landing are frightning and almost lawless. Which could get her k*lled worst case scenario. He has bad temper, and the emotional intelligence of a toddler. So basically I'm on team not Daemon. Rhaenyra is spoiled and removed from reality due to her sheltered upbringing. She was never held accountable for anything and it shows. She at 18 doesn't even know you have to pay for food in Kings Landing. She doesn't understand these things. She is also basically in Cerceis position ( not Cercei herself ) right now having 3 illegitimate children. And she did set them up for failure. Something like that destabilises the realm. Now do I like Aegon? No, the guy is crap. But he has an experienced council and legitimate heirs. So despite me not liking him, the realm would be in better condition. But I guess it's easier to just call people misogynists. Because then you don't have to actually think.
@@danika9411 It has EVERYTHING to do with misogyny. I deel the same way as you about Daemon. I don't like him at all. But I completely disgaree with your stand on Rhaneyra. She is NOT spoiled. (And if she is - so is Aegon. )She was basically force to marry man who couldn;t get her a child - she had to find them somhwere else. It was her dutiy as heir. Aegon has legitimate heirs??? Hold me! He is USRPER, his children aren't legitimate heirs to throne. And he has "experinced MISOGYNISTIC council". NONE dishneirited Rhnaeyra because shse was unfit to rule. They disnehrited her ONY because of her gender. So, yeah, if you support Greens, you are misogynists. All Rhaneyra children are legally legitimate and most kingdom still suppport them. You are misogynist, because you support taking away woman right only because of her gender.
I feel like regardless of Aegon being a rapist which is horrible (if anything Aemond should be king) people want Rhaenyra because she is presented as far more noble and good than the books actually have her (spoiled immature woman) and girl power. I mean placing modern society’s views on this society. And seriously do they forget that regardless of the circumstances of Laenor and his acceptance of those boys, they are not legitimate. By giving them titles and rights they don’t deserve Rhaenyra insults all lords and legitimate children claiming that bastards are worthy of the same titles when they are not
That's not true at all... People want Rhaenyra because she is by law the rightful heir... By tradition she is not but the king can do whatever he wants to do and he named her.
Let’s not forget that Rhenearas bastards were spoiled shits who helped Aegon TORMENT Aemond about not having a dragon. Ganged up on him after he claimed Vhagar (dragons choose their riders, it’s just as likely those little girls would have been burned alive if they tried) and when he defended himself, one of them cut out his eye. As you mentioned “with no consequences”. Anyone who supports the blacks is willfully ignorant of how spoiled they are.
I left a comment on a previously video name "Aemond Did Nothing Wrong" about Season 1 episode 7, I think is an important issue but almost no one on the internt talks about how Rhaenyra reacted. Here is the issue: "Don`t forget the fact that Rhaenyra demanded that Aemond be torturer, the term “questioned sharply” is a euphemism for torturing in a Song of Ice and Fire. Just to point out for those saying Rhaenyra would never harm Alicent`s children." What do you guys think about Rhaenyra`s attitude?
When Rhaenyras bastards could mutilate Alicents children and the king hardly even took notice of that but instead threw a fit over Aemond calling Luke and Jace bastards and Rhaenyra demanded torture that hit home how much of a second thought Alicents children really had become. Even though they are his firstborn sons and by all the rules should be of higher station. After that and the Vaemond incident Alicent had every reason to fear for her childrens life should Rhaenyra take power
@@pg1448 I 100% agree Alicent is justify to fear for her children. My question is why the showrunners didn`t make more clear that Rhaenyra was willing to torture Aemond.Most people didn´t understood that the term "questioned sharply" is the same as torture, when reviers talk about episode 7 they don´t mention the torture part.They focus on Alicent acting "crazy" {because having your kid loosing an eye, having the father of the kid (the king) not carring at all, and having the favorite daughter of the king ( Rhaenyra) demanding the torture of the kid, is not good reason to act like that }. Did you think the showrunners didn´t want people to understant Rhaenyra´s inetentions? Would´t be better to for the show if was more direct about her demand?
@@williamfilho4810they did. However what the show is doing with Rhaenyra is the same thing GoT did with Danaerys in that they are making the audience see Rhaenyra through rose colored glasses and not actually pay attention to what she’s doing. However, it seems some in the audience aren’t falling for that trick this time.
Rhaenyra basically said what aemond said about her kids was treason. She was suggesting he be hurt or even lose his life. Treason is punishable by death.
Well, you are indeed brave to admit you are team green when everyone is team black. I am team green, mostly because I think that one oath is not enough to make R queen. If the oath was given AFTER Aegon`s birth - it would be a different matter. And Viserys word is the ONLY arguement why R must have crown. For me personally it is very weak claim. Because when king dies - his words die with him. I totally agree that Raenyrs`s claims would be challenged in any case, because she is a woman. And it happens when you want to change something or be an exception/ BUT SHE DID NOTHING TO PROTECT HER CLAIM. She gave Greens every legal right to take crown from her and commited treason to crown three times! THREE TIMES. The only thing that could prevented the dance - Aegon and Raenyra marriage. NOT Halaena and Jace. I just dont understand why Rae didnt share prophecy with Alicent and Aegon. If she wanted to be the queen and fulfill prophecy - she should have share it with people wo is a threat for this and had no idea about further consequences. But no, she did questionable things and then expected everyone to accept her as queen. Really? At least greens know what they do and their actions have logic.
if you guys didn't knew european kings in medieval times were not able to name their heirs even in Chinese dynasties as long as the eldest son of empress lives the other sons cannot inherit over him
It pissed me off so much that 90% of viewers were calling Daemon a "badass" for beheading Vaemond. What's so "badass" about murdering a highborn of a fellow Valryian house for speaking the truth, from behind his back, with Daemon going against his King's wishes, and stealing Driftmark in the process? It wasn't a cool moment at all, it was outright evil, and Daemon only did it because he is a simp for the niece that he groomed. Everything about it makes Daemon a weak, pathetic man. Black supporters will say that Daemon is a man motivated by his love and loyalty to Viserys. But I bet those same people were nodding along when Davos said "loyal service means telling hard truths"...
Vaemond make a back door dealing with Otto to steal Driftmark claim. Remember this, Corlys is not dead yet, but Vaemond is already lusting over his birthright. THE KING intended to cut out Veamond tongue, Daemon is just fulfill his brother wishes, not to mention Vaemond insulted his wife. If you expecting King Viserys to kill his own daughter for having a bastard then you are naive fool, he loves Rheanyra. To acknowledge her son as bastard mean putting her to death. Speaking "truth" mean nothing for King Viserys, what really important is his daughter safety, if you ever be a father then you should know better.
@@linaikrimadina ......... That's a leap of logic and a half mate. All he had to do was say "Well you've had three illigitimate children you're no longer my heir." Dome
@@malekiththeeternityking5433 Rheanyra line carry the prince that was promised you dumbass, he said so himself. This is bigger than the iron throne or westeros.
She atrociously increased taxes, was a cruel paranoid tyrant that would've made Aerys II proud, she was a coward who fled the capital when the citizens rightfully rioted against her, she unlawfully imprisoned people, and she was such a worthless unworthy leader that the throne cut her.
Yeah this show is actually mediocre, it's just cause of liyeral garbage like Rings of Power and She Hulk that this seemed good. I've seen morons online DEFENDING Viserys knowing what his daughter was and still made her heir, like that's Alexander the Great level stupid in succession terms. He had three sons, all of which are better qualified then Rhaenyra if we're talking book ones but hey, let's just have Aegon be a r@pi$t because, let's just have Rhaenys murder hundreds of civies for nothing and have a yes slaay quen moment. Mediocrity being loved for some reaso.
I agree 1,000%. They try to make you sympathize with those spoiled brat princess and the pedo uncle. I blame the foolish father who could have nipped the whole thing in the bud by making Aggon next in line to rule, like his father did for him, instead of the queen who never was.
i don't think they denied rhaenys just for being a woman. I think it was more to keep the velayrons from ruling the kingdom considering how powerful they already are
I think Team Green is best because their characters are indeed more interesting. I don’t think the moral high ground is necessary at all. I was totally team Lannister because Tywin and Cersei were such a delight to watch - not because I agreed with their sadistic, near-sighted selves.
The Greens have the better claim in that Aegon was the King’s First Born Son. But they drew blood first multiple times and set the war off. At that point it’s gloves off and claims don’t matter so much as swords
Targaryen power is taken at dragonpoint. They are the invaders with bombing ability facing the tribes with sharpened sticks. So when their king decides who will be his heir, he does so without regards to the rules of the tribes, as an absolute monarch confident in his private air force. And this is really how this story should be presented: the attempt of the tribes to have their own rules recognised by the invader and their (partial) support to one tribal family married into the ruling circle as a gradual way to regain some of their lost sovereignty. At the core of the story, we really have the Greens continuing the politics of the old king Jaehaerys "the conciliator" clashing with the Black Valyrian hardliners and their supremacy.
Except even with the bombing ability of dragons the Targaryens are still held accountable to their subjects, Maegor the Cruel tried to disregard his subjects will and burn everyone, look what happened to him. Wise kings like Jaeherys listened to his realm when it came to matters like succession, and this set a precedent. There is no logic behind supporting Viserys and King and then Rhaenyra, so the only real argument these people have is supporting absolute monarchy and whatever the Targaryens do, regardless of the consequences for the realm. I like your framing though, there’s certainly an argument to be made about integration and adopting customs, but it’s important to remember that the Greens also have dragons, and that plays a huge part in the war to come, so it isn’t like this is just a native rebellion that will get crushed.
I rewatched the 1st season twice before the new season came out and...little by little, I switched teams. Team black-> Team green. I realized that Aegon is not fit to rule but he brings stability after him, whereas Rheanyra brings nothing but bastards who should not be rulers
Besides the fact that this is an amoral fight for power and survival and ruling over people is not a right, it's important to remember that the Green's claim was legal. Targaryen Kings are often deluded enough to believe their word alone can change millennia of Westerosi tradition, but the non-Targaryen houses know better. House Targaryan might delude themselves into believing they are an absolute monarchy, but they are not. There were still bound by most pre-established Westerosi laws. The Green Council was established because Viserys's fuck up created two conflicting and valid claims to the throne. The King's new law (the legally weak expectation he made for his daughter) was flimsy at best and a conflict for succession would be inevitable as soon as he died. Peace was never an option, not even for Rhaenyra. She might have let Aegon live if he never tried to take the throne and was fully under her control as a Queen, but the option of killing him as soon as he becomes a potential threat was always on the table. Daemon would have certainly convinced her of such if she ever had any reservations. Ironically, both sides committed high treason to secure their claim, so the only way to settle the matter was by winning the war (since both sides rejected all prior peaceful solutions by this point). Even IF the Greens had no valid claim, the Targaryen House was notorious for constantly breaking Westerosi rules because they believed themselves to be closer to Godhood. It often has been a fight for dominance among them, anyway. And since rules were never binding to Targaryens, why should they be binding against anyone else opposing them (AKA: the Hightowers)?
Also while men FOOL around, the Bastards ARE Bastards. Only the children of the legal wife have a right to inheritance. Bastards, have no rights, beyong any love their father is willing to extend them. The Double standard is there, but ..... well no but. It is a complete double standard.
5:18 Kings having Bastard's isn't a problem unless the king legitimises his bastard's When a woman has Bastard's, those bastard's will inherit the mans everything which they dont deserve , like how lucerys was going to get driftmark without having any viseryon blood
1:10 It Was Presented To The Lords, different houses and They All Bent The Knee 😩 If anyone had an issue with Rhaenyra being Viserys heir, no one brought their issue before King Viserys... So, going behind Viserys back, after his death is wrong... Green Team caused a lot of the division between the different houses, fighting for what they wanted verses what Viserys wanted... And if we're going to pick the lesser əvil, it'd definitely be Rhaenyra, Agone was a M0NSTER...
Yeah I'm team green and I am based asf in that, And as far as feminism goes, I don't really think it SHOULD matter if someone is a feminist or not, You Can't apply feminism ways of thinking to something that's based in medieval times, Cause that's just not how things were back then. (and no I'm not a feminist, I'm just saying just because someone is one, thinking with a feminism mind isn't justified in this case)
My support lies with this is a massive spoiler by the way so if you haven't read the books do not go on further reading this King aegon III and jaehaera 1
YESS....WHY DO PEOPLE MISS THE POINT......THE BLACKS ARENT EVEN TARGARYEN.....NOW WE KNOW WHY THE TARGARYENS FELL....THE DANCE WAS ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY
Tbh idc too much about the law of first born son, aegon has a birth right? Yes but thats not my reason to support him. I love him as king bc he (and alicent my beloved) have all the right to defend themselves, they own rhaenyra nothing after what happened to aemond, they just don't trust her & daemon, besides tb is kinda cringe, daemon is pushing 60 and fighting teens (like alicent brother), and everyone thinks he is so cool 😆
TEAM GREEN!!!! SPOILER! Aemond and Deamon kill each ither and their dragons in an epic duel that b1txh Rhanera (however its spelled) gets eaten Alive (slowly!) by Aegons dragon.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Blacks are all a bunch of pathetic losers. I'm so glad history names Aegon II the King, while Rhaenyra is forever remembered as nothing but a usuper and a traitor and blamed for the war. She deserved every bit of it. So cathartic that her own younger sons agreed to let history vilify their own horrible mother. Even Aegon III and Viserys II know what an awful "human being" their mommy Rhaenyra was...HA. So hated, that no Targaryen ever named their daughters after her.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518rightful in what way ever since Aegon was born the council said the throne wasn't secure for Raenyra. Aegon is the first born son in a patriarchal kingdom.
I've been feeling this since day 1. rhaenyra is completely guilty of everything alicent is accusing her of
Thing is, none of the things Alicent accuses her of, are actual moral issues. All of them are reflections of Alicent being a traditionalist, judging people based on faulty premises
@@LateStageCap They are moral issues in Westeros and they have serious consequences within that world. We are talking about a medieval setting here, being "traditionalist" is the norm and Alicent is completely in the right according to the morals and laws of her world, just not ours, which is pretty irrelevant within the setting.
@@pg1448 Morality isn't dependent on society, you're being a moron. People like you would say that freeing slaves was immoral because it's against the norms and had serious consequences in our old world.
Did you forget that Aemond killed his nephew, and that Aegon has tons of bastard kids that he files the teeth and nails off so they can kill eachother easier? And that he consistently rapes handmaidens that his mother has to kill for him? In the laws of westeros, Alicent should've been tortured and gelded for striking princess Rhaenyra with a knife.
Alicent hires the psycho Larys Strong to murder his own brother and father. That act is called Kinslaying, and it's the greatest sin possible in Westeros.
How the fuck are these not "moral issues"?
You're just slut shaming, admit it. You're being a hypocrite just like Alicent.
@@LateStageCap lying and being a petulant child is moral
Rhaenera was a spoilt brat from season one, no patience, rush and impatient kinda reminds me of Renly Baratheon. Alicent and Otto Hightower were patient, and diplomatic with their approach but because of the rush decision makeing by the blacks they ultimately forced their hand. The greens were the good guys the blacks weren't
Every Targaryen is a spoiled brat my guy.. they’re born into the most prestigious house to live in Westeros. Aegon ii did jack shit to get a throne that never belonged to him, THATS SPOILED. Rhaenyra has suffered 10x more than Alicent, Otto, and Aegon. She lost 2 children in the final episode, lost her birth right, her father.
The greens are the good guys? They literally put an alcoholic, rapist on the throne who doesn't even have the abilities to control anything even himself... Yeah, good guys 🤦
@@lierriodid nothing ? First of all he’s male. And how can you defend rhaenyra ? She literally gets whatever she wants. Gets to be heir despite being a woman, the line of succession runs through her sons, makes agreement to whore around despite being married, her sons being illegitimate BASTARDS, orders the assassination of her spouse, incest with her uncle. Like how is she the good guy
Forced their hand? Alicent was planning a takeover decades in advance it's just blatant lying pretending she wasn't
Can we please talk about how ALL of Rhaenyra's kids are technically illegitimate? Obviously Jace, Luke, and Joffrey were fathered by Harwin Strong, but her other kids are bastards, too. Laenor was still alive when she married Daemon, and he's presumptively still alive throughout season one. If we're getting technical, that means her marriage to Daemon is illegitimate; and subsequently, so are Aegon, Viserys, and Visenya. Even if they are legally legitimate, they're bastards by the standards of their family's religion.
Their family religion? You mean custom. Then no. Targaryens are allowed to practise polygamy and partial incest. But after the doom of Valyria, the ones who remained in Westoros mostly adopted their religion for a peaceful reign. Though, as u may know, some royals upheld their own Targaryen customs more so than the others, who opted to the religion and customs of Westoros.
So according to Westoros's customs and the Faith of the Seven, yes, Rhaenyra's children are bastards. But those aren't Targaryen customs.
I think the show made Laenor live more in consideration of modern tv troupes that kill of gay characters and also to make Rhaenyra look better. But in-world it messes up the legitimacy of her children with Daemon but it also shows how Rhaenyra and Daemon consider themselves and their line above the laws of gods and men. I wonder if Laenor dies and Daemon becomes Rhaenyra's sole husband would that de facto make her younger sons legit?
@@happilyevernever4289 If we are getting technical the Valyrians practiced polygamy i.e. a man having multi wives but there is not record of polyandry i.e. a woman having multi husbands. However I'm not sure if the Valyrians had any concept of bastardy. Orys Baratheon was well-known to be the half-brother of Aegon the Conqueror but he was not given a surname denoting his baseborn status nor was he treated as tainted by his siblings. It seems Orys was just completely accepted and was even his brother's right-hand man.
He's dead in the books like actually dead
@@9xprincess yeah, it would have made baby girl look like a H0mophobe xD
Rhaenyra totally did this to herself, and she *could* have had the opportunity to be respected if she didn’t insult every other lord and flout her responsibilities as a teen and an adult - and this is coming from someone who likes her character.
Looking at it through a feudal society perspective rather than a modern one, I can totally agree that the Greens are morally correct in the Dance of Dragons.
Yeah even if they were justified, their main goal was power. That’s the whole reason Otto married Alicent to viserys. Even if her kids were legitimate there still would’ve usurped the throne from her
@@jordynturner4244 makes them no different than any other lord let's not forget the velaryon wanted laena to be married to viserys the king wanted a son and he had many maidens to pick his next bride and he chose alicent who proved to be fertile and gave him 3 sons and a daughter.she did her duty and gave him his son which he had always wanted remember his first wife died trying to give him his son and alicent did that and more.viserys should have named aegon the heir and be done with it
@@ratikantrout1865 yeah but he didn’t love alicent. If he had a son with aemma then it would’ve been different. He clearly didn’t care for his kids with alicent as much as his one child(Rhaenyra) with the women he truly loved. Otherwise he would’ve just named him the heir.
@@jordynturner4244 that's why viserys was the worst Targaryen king 👑 even for argument sake let's say alicent kids decided to let their elder sister become queen there is no guarantee their sons and daughter would do the same so war was inevitable the day viserys decided to keep rhaenyra as heir after having three sons by alicent if rhaenyra wants to sit the throne and make sure her blood line continues she has to kill them all.this is what criston Cole used to convince aegon to fight otherwise his siblings will be killed. Daemon killed vaemond and rhaenyra fed him to her dragon.plus she wanted to sit her bastards on her throne after her. Only reason rhaenyra line continued because aegon ll didn't kill her son aegon lll(viserys was presumed dead) even though rhaenyra had his son killed using blood and cheese.
honestly it’s started from VISERYS UNDERMINING RHAENYRA HIMSELF. dude literally announced to the whole world that his heir is rhae but then decided to get married and produce more kids (therefore threatening her position) instead of forcing her to get married and start producing babies to secure the line
While I feel that both sides are capable of immense acts of skulduggery, I feel like a lot of people ignore how much the Greens initially tried to prevent a potential civil war from even rearing its ugly head. Alicent is actually a good queen who actually gets Viserys to make important choices instead of pussyfooting. And Otto's suggestion to betroth Rhaenyra to Aegon was actually a valid one. Gross and incestuous? Sure, but Targaryens. Was he hoping to get his grandson in power? Definitely. Could it lead to a Ptolemy-esque civil war later on? Possibly, yes. But at the time, that might've been the best solution to end any objections to the succession. Especially when the aim was to keep Daemon away from the throne and as far down the line of succession as possible, which is a great damn decision because Daemon, bless him, would be a disasterous king.
Deamon thinks with his balls
you're brave for having these opinions. 90% of the internet is Team Black
considering that team Black is the designated heirs of the King but got that usurped under their noses, Team Green has little legitimacy to really stand on beyond being "cooler". Kings in Westeros DO have a ton of power. It's that power to do what they want when they want that is the reason WHY the dynasty has often run into problems from The Dance of Dragons to the Blackfyre Rebellions to Robert's Rebellion.
@James Neese Are they cooler, or is that just his opinion... lol
Team Green are unfortunately, just not very likeable.
@@brianlong2334 I think the problem is that Otto is such a prick that it's painfully obvious he'd see the realm burn to have a Hightower on the throne. But Rhyaris did herself no favors being a petulant brat most of her life but petulant or not she is the designated heir.
@@brianlong2334 team black is unfortunately not very interesting
@@atro-city The majority disagree on that, that's why the green's are not as popular.
Most people don't dislike the greens they straight out despise them.
The majority of the relm also don't like them, as even a lot of the reach lords fight for the blacks, spoilers!
I'm Team Green from day 1 and I will never understand how people in Team Black label us as misogynists just because we think the golden girl Rhae Rhae doesn't deserve to sit on the iron throne
They call me a misogynist too, which is hilarious because I'm a woman and my favorite character is Alicent. Black fans are not the brightest.
@@jennafox8556Moreover, why should a person be a misogynist when they just think of what kind of person they see, no matter a woman or a man?
because they fail to recognize that rhaenyra is not a feminist. she's not in it for the women. she's in it for herself (and the supposed prophecy of the prince that was promised but there are arguments against her from that angle too).
I think that in the last few episodes, the problem as a whole with the writing is that they are doing their utmost to put a modern perspective over the show i.e Rhaenyra is supposedly rejecting the "patriarchy" and social norms which makes her great and stunning and brave in the eyes of the writers.
This in turn makes them start to write Alicent as significantly worse because she is championing the traditional way of thinking where Aegon should inherit on the grounds of the law and ancient customs so she ends up being seen as regressive on the rights of women in the show. This could actually be a really good contrast if it was written well, the problem is it's not. Which is why it only exists in the show. In the books both of them are major assholes and they're terrified to try and show them in that way.
@@TheRemover469 Fast forward to season 2 now
Are you still on team green ?
Yh, I’ve been Team Green throughout but was confused why I was in such a tiny minority online.
As Stannis said: "Fools love a fool". And most people in the world are fools. That's why.
You are not alone. Most people aren't as brave as you to declare support for team Green because of reasons...
@@gooby214And ironically Stannis fans are fools because not a single aspect of Stannis's claim holds up legally.
@@alexjames7144 joffrey is a bastard. Stannis def had a claim
@@kpacf Stannis's claim is based on Roberts being legitimate. Robert's is only legitimate if you believe that right by conquest trumps right by inheritance.
So in order to claim, Stannis has to explicitly claim that right by conquest is the more legitimate claim. And unfortunately somebody else took the throne from him by force. So that doesn't really work does it?
I am 100% Team Green. 💚 It's completely wild to me that so many people are pro Team Black. The King can't just name an heir. Bastards cannot inherit unless the rest of the line is dead/disowned, and they've been legitimised by the King. So many viewers just look at it from a modern POV instead of caring about the laws and traditions of the fictional world they're watching...
The show writers have made Aegon the worst version of him they could (in the book he's NOT a rapist but is said to be a bit of a letch, lusting after his servants etc. but that's very different from being an actual rapist like they've written him to be in the show!) just to make Rhaenyra look better.
It's so clear to me that they're making Aegon "evil" so that they can have Rhaenyra come and be the saviour of the realm. But for all the reasons you listed, she's never been suited to be Queen, and legally, it was no longer her throne to take, the moment Aegon was born.
Those clowns screenwriters are trying to make Rhaenyra Daenerys 2.0...so pathetic.
All true. Rhaenyra's entire claims hedges on "daddy said so." The fact so much of Westeros fought to have a woman rule them seemed to be anachronistic.
@@matro2 I agree!! Plus, the fact that Rhaenys supports Rhaenyra's claim is so fucking dumb. I get that it's for her granddaughters but honestly it's so stupid. She should be pushing for the older granddaughter to inherit Driftmark and the younger one to marry Aemond or Daeron. The convoluted hoops these characters go through to try and convince us that Rhaenyra should be heir is ridiculous. Rhaenys saying "all you want is a window" like, bitch, all you did was whatever your husband wanted. Even at the expense of your own son and daughter. What a pathetic hypocrite
I think you're kinda reading way too much into it. If that's the case why did westros literally let Cersai run shit for years when there was a "man" who could be doing it. I get that she manipulated her sons but towards the end it became very clear who was calling the shots and yet a bunch of men said "yeah that's cool, I'll follow her orders" it's actually really just the same story being retold except this is about Hightower Vs Targayan rather than Stark vs Lannister. Furthermore there are other queens and princesses in the history before the dance of dragons as well. Who really cares anyways? We all know how this ends the story has already been told. Don't watch the adaption on screen if you can't handle some changes to the writing that ultimately will come to the same conclusion. They have to write these shows so women can watch it too you know lol can't just be "I have the bigger dick than you" contests throughout but if you think that's what it should be then you'd realize team black has the bigger dick too lol Aemon was still a weirdo and his one eyed uncle murdered a child as well as his dragon cuz he got emotional. That's not very logical at all now is it?
@@matro2why did so much of westros fight for Cersai then? Lol
One of my biggest reasons for not liking rhaenyra and not being able to even imagine her on the throne is her inability to play the game ,
During the run of GOT we hated cersi and baelish but we had a certain respect to them for their ability to understand the court and the realm and twist their own threads around the spider web that is the seven kingdoms, kingslanding in particular was always called a pit of vipers, so how would a princess of the realms be so incompetent in playing the game? She brings 3 bastards into the fold as well and don't get me wrong I am all for women empowerment but she isn't advocating for bastards rights around the realm or smth like that
She advocating for her own bastards to get a claim that by law shouldn't go to them and she didn't even think to atleast screw someone who looks like her husband, putting her children lives in danger and her claim to question,
She is living in an era where women even princess like her are obligated to follow rigid social standards or else they are punished, we see that with jahaerys daughters who did similar things getting punished by the king for those actions, so why in the name of whatever gods those targaryens worship, does she keep making these stupid mistakes that ultimately now causing a civil war ?
Cersi that had 3 bastards: 😐
@@yorisabae But that were not that obvious at least. She was blond and her children were blond.
The game had become that though. Spiders and snakes in the high grass was what westeros had become. Even the honorable northerners seemed to toss aside tradition(and their oaths) when the the long winter approached. My point being, Cersei was a cunt. A treacherous unworthy dishonorable bloodthirsty cunt. The only game they played was brutality. Lets not forget the entirety of the War of the Five Kings begins because of Little Fingers move to send a letter to Ned blaming Jon Arryns death on the Lannisters.
The plot was thick for sure but look how little fingers scheming ended for him?
It seems, on the whole, MOST of the families in this current timeline dont usually plot and scheme in the same treacherous ways as the characters of GOT. Everything seems distasteful and dishonorable excluding the one man we've met through allicent who has a foot fetish and can command rhe deaths of men like Little Finger might.
The Targaryens don't need to manipulate people like Cersei and Littlefinger need because they have dragons. In that way, Rhaenyra can just keep being a spoiled child and her father isn't enough to convince her otherwise.
@@Pedro-ss2qrI’ll just make a spoiler alert if you don’t really know the ending in the books…
…
…
yeah, her dragons couldn’t really help her much in the end, so maybe she should’ve also played the game
The show try to make you think blacks are good and the greens are bad but we the audience can tell who are the true villains and hero's
Team Green 💚
Stability / Values / Tradition / Faith / Bloodline
Ps: Probably Aegon would not reign alone at the beginning, he would have the full support of Otto (who is one of the best politicians in the kingdom) and Alicent (who have experience and wisdom)...Team Green deserves the throne and are more competent for the position .
also Aemond has my heart 💚
Reading the books first and seen what Rhaenyra becomes when she takes the throne made me like the greens when the show came out
I have a feeling the show will make even her cruel decisions look good to fit internet's "yas queen you slay" nerative.
When Rhaenyra finally takes the throne, it is after she loses both Luke and Jace, and she faces betrayal after betrayal. Aegon is no different. They both become monsters.
@@janellejulianajoy
Both became?
Liek wtf, have see actually seen House of the Dragons?
Aegon is a menace. Mf made bastards before he became an adult.
She was that from the beginning! It was all about doing whatever the h she wanted with no sense of duty to her subjects. Yet people seem so surprised...
@arthurtitangenlpendragon not a book reader are you.? If reading is so hard, just read the parts of Daemon, very informative 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
As far as I know in this series, no man has ever tried to push their illegitimate children to inherit their titles, like Rhaenyra did. I wouldn’t be against Rhaenyra being ruler if she wasn’t so stupid. She never thought ahead or considered the consequences of her actions.
Illegitimite? The "Strong" boys are targaryens and the king accepted them as his grandsons... End of story 💀
@@Hear.myvoice The "Strong" boys are bastards. That's all they are and they have 0 claim to the Iron throne. Just because Viserys was blind to Rhaenyra's stupidity doesn't make bastards "Targaryens". And if they are Targaryens then so are the other Targaryen bastards like Hugh Hammer, Ulf etc. But I don't see you guys fighting for their claim??
@@Hear.myvoice ok buddy
@@Hear.myvoice ok buddy
@@Hear.myvoice They are still bastards.
I agree that it would be wiser if Viserys changed his mind and name Aegon his heir when they went hunting in his birthday. Rhaenyra would understand, we saw that while she was feeling left out, she was ready to give up claim and step aside when she was still young and unmarried. When she has children od her own it was already too late for peaceful change as both mothers (Alicent and Rhaenyra) were scared that the other will kill children. If boys grew up all knowing that Aegon will be king no questions asked, then they would not be danger to each other. By the time of kings death it was too late. Greens and blacks had No choice but fight. Even if Rhaenyra and Alicent could work things out, children grew up in hatred and they are adults now…
Its wrong to chose aegon rheanyra is stupid but wiser to rule
But also rhaenyra grew up being a cup bearer and after sat at the small council meeting preparing to rule while aegon wasn’t if he was named heir at episode 3 on his birthday he probably would of grown up being a cup bearer and would of also say in the small councils and better suited to actually ruling
@Ali Chaudhry yeah alicent was right about viserys, I personally think viserys is one of the worst kings, if rhaeynra was the the only child yeah it makes sense but once aegon was born he had to forsake one but to weak to chose one, he could of named ageon heir on his birthday, everyone was expecting it even rhaeynra, he was just setting things up to end up in war, he should of never rehired Otto, let rhaeynra set up the members she wants for her small council, but didn’t, also plenty of lords chose rhaeynra I don’t think Otto expected a lot to side with rhaeynra, once alicent played her cards and Otto had to play along my guess would be with the reach, westerlands, riverlands, others could be convinced not to chose or chose their side, also I do lean more black myself but do like and dislike characters form both sides
We see this with Aemond and Luke. Alicent was wanting a peaceful solution and Rhaenyra was considering it but the hatred with the kids had already been cemented
I aint reading all that..
There are a bunch of things about the show that I don't like. The clear Black favoritism is one of those. They make every Green character as unsympathetic as possible or make them seem wrong, have them and their supporters as horrible and disturbing as possible. And we tone down some of the worst actions of the Blacks to make them more sympathetic(killing Velaryons brother is said to just be Daemon being Daemon, Laenor is not assassinated, but instead skips off to wherever, etc;)
Sure, we can say over and over again "Rhaenyra was chosen by Aegon II", but can we not at least make both sides have a point? Or does this writing have to be the black and white good and bad characters as it was for the last season of "Game of Thrones"?
Greens were ALWAYS not sympathetic. In books they are TERRIBLE. Alicent is very complex in show, while in book she was total villain. Also sad expression on Aegon II face make me feel some pity for him. I have no sympathy to book Aegon.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 We get a better look at Aegon II in the show, but they added some things to make him worse(raping the servant girl and having kids who are in the Flea Bottom fighting pits, etc;)
@@phousefilms He isn't specifically say to assault women in books, however he still had many illegitimate offspring and given his megalamoniac tendencies, it isn't far fetched to assume some of those mothers were assaulted by him.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 It does say in "Fire and Blood" that he gropes many serving girls and Mushrooms version of events on them finding Aegon after Viserys's death is him watching children in the pitfight while being pleasured by a girl of fourteen (or younger).
Now, I know that the Greens are, by and large, wrong because they went against Viserys's ruling. However, the show is piling on so many damn villainous qualities and evil moments and totally tilting things to the Blacks being "heroic"that it sort of annoys me.
Keep in mind, I started getting into GOT, then ASOIAF because both sides did good and bad and they were morally grey. Season 8 was such a @#$&show because they ignored that and just went "nope, this character is straight good" or "this character is straight evil", among other terrible writing.
It seems like a lot of the worst actions of the Blacks are being toned down or wiped out(Daemon seducing Rhaenyra in the brothel, Laenor Velaryon's assassination), while we make the Greens so evil, it's a wonder they aren't twirling moustaches(Aegon II rapist, Otto Hightower wanting to murder Rhaenyra, Larys "OnlyFans"strong and his foot fetish). I am worried that they're going to make Blood and Cheese hired by Otto Hightower to inspire Aegon, just so Daemon and Rhaenyra aren't hated.
Even Aemons eye being slashed out, Aemond is considered the bad guy(for fighting back when the kids attacked him first).
@@phousefilms Kids attacked first but with kicks. It was Aemond who first take rock in hands. That was very dangerous and slashing his eye is perectly justified act of self-defense. Now, I know many people have problem with portrayal of Black, however I personally don't feel this way. Altough I'm on Rhaenra's sides, Daemon's creeps me out and actually he was made less sympathetic - he is cold toward Laena, towards his daughter Rhaena, he dispatched his first wife and he is also very cold toward Jacaerys (I wouldn't be too surprised if he and Jace were in conflict in s 2 even if they are on the same side). I don't think they would do such thing with Blood and Cheese. However they could make Rhaneyra's unaware of her husbad actions. (Well, we don't knwo how much she actually was aware in book and their relationship started crumble few months after neverthless...). So Daemon was made more sneaky and Allicent symapathetic. Even Aemond regret chasing Luke, while he didn't according the book. I think we can safely exepct complex behaviours on both side in next season ;) They simply had too little scene to flesh them out in s 1, focusing more on Rhaenyra and Alicent.
I became team green the minute that Rhaenerya tried to have her 10 year old half brother who had just lost an eye 'sharply questioned' (basically means tortured) over an true insult and Viserys didn't even do shit about it as he was more concerned for Rhaenyra and her children's feelings and rep then to his own mutilated son.
Now I don't condone Alicent trying to take out Lucerys eye but you can't call Alicent an evil mother, flawed and imperfect yes but she does love her children in her own way (The way she looks after Helaena and rightly disciplines Aegon when hes being a shit, unlike so many mothers back then) If it was the other way round and Luke had lost an eye and Rhaenyra or even Daemon tried to do the same thing and go for Aemond, many no doubt would all be on the blacks side.
The insult was true but they forced Rhaenyra to a gay man... What do you think she should have done? 💀
Aemond called the little boys bastards; threatened to kill them anx disrespected the memory of Laena in front of her daughters while Alicent was trying to usurp the throne the whole time.
@cs.a.745
Starting this debate respectfully, i underrstand your points and Rhae's situation, but they are still bastards children who, from a legal point, have no right to throne, and a lot of people in court know this. She is basically an original tamer version of Cersei Lannister, who gets lots of hate for having bastard children while Rhaenyra gets off scott free
Aemond also didn't start the fight. Baela and Rhaena charged for Aemond first, to which he rightfully defended himself, and the boys then attacked him. Also, Rhaenyra and Daemon hooking up on the day of her funeral is apparently not disrespecting Laena's memory.
Alicent from day one has been abused and has been constantly warned that Rhaenyea would harm her children if she got the throne. I say Lucerys cutting her son's eye out and Rhaenyra wanting him tortured gives her good reason not to want Rhaenyra on the throne. If she's willing to torture her 10 YEAR OLD BROTHER over an insult, what would she do if she was queen.
All team blacks stans, come back when a son for a son episode goes on air and tell me, do you still support team black
@@lenaastolfi3782 Yes, they are bastards but the king and their own father accepted them as son/grandson so you can't do anything rightfully except for accept it...
Aemond "stole" the dragon in their eyes and disrespected their mother with that act. Of course they attacked him, Aemond was the older, he should have been smarter 😐
Yes, Otto "warned" Alicent about Rhaenyra killing her children on the throne... But that's simply bullshit. Alicent was stupid enough to believe that Rhaenyra would do such a thing with her half-siblings and best-friend 🙄
And yes, I will support team black no matter what they will do... Otto devided the realm; Alicent provoked Rhaenyra and tried to usurp her the whole time; Aegon is a terrible king and human being and Aemond started the whole shit by killing an innocent kid who was directly sent as a messenger 💀
@cs.a.745
So a 10 year old is stupid for getting attacked, trying to defend himself and getting his eye knife out. He was still a child as much as the others were and it didn't matter at the end becuz Vhagar chose Aemond. She a centuries old dragon that has fought in wars, if she didn't want Aemond riding her she would have made it very clear by killing him but she let him and thats the final decison in the end.
Tell a lot of victims of abuse that they are also stupid to believe their manipulators. My original point still stands, her son was mutilated and Rhae wanted blood, and Alicent felt she had to protect her children (in the wrong way, but complicated) and years of paranoia and manipulation drove her at the end. She didn't want bloodshed. She just wanted her to be respected and loved, but she had no more real friends and very little emotional support. Her husband was always forgetting who she was or was too sick. Her children were all she had, and she loved them as much as Rhaenyra's loves hers, but she struggled to show it. She just wants to do things to go well and perfect like they should have been.
I do agree that what Aemond did to Lucerys was reckless and started a war. But i know that Aemond didn't intend for Vhagar to eat Lucerys. Aemond was always under the impression that they could control the dragons becuz good old viserys most likely did not sit him down and explain to him that dragons are not slaves and all that shit. He was shocked and horrified at the end at what he did, stupid, yes, intentional, defo not. He just didn't understand a dragon was not a slave
Simple as that and once again come back when a son for a son episode comes on in season 2 and once again tell me if you still support the blacks for everything they do. Remember an eye for an eye, a son for a son. But which son? Tell me which one. Thank you for the debate
@@lenaastolfi3782 I read the book, I know what will happen and it won't change what I think...
The greens started it. In my opinion this is the main/biggest crime and everything comes after.
Exactly.
And by marrying Daemon she made herself incredibly unappealing to bend the knee to, cause he's hated, it's a open secret to the Vale he killed his wife, he's brutal, violent, a warmonger and would probably try to murder his brothers entire family bar Rhaenyra and her children because he's so fixated on their superiority, and now he'll be king consort, rule through her and get to run the realm, exactly what the lords and viserys did not want.
Her allies are the velaryons reluctantly and only by Baela and Rhaena being bethrothed, the vale because jeyne needs her to rule so she can be legitimate in ruling the vale despite her lack of children and rather open fondness of other women, the starks merely because they swore a oath but they do not love her, the riverlands similarly, and that's it.
She did not bother making allies, and indeed most nobles have never even seen her or her kids and have no idea if she's even suited to it, she insulted many lords during her looking for suitors to their faces, let bloodshed happen, and never bothered to interact, so the greens look better as they have been in kings landing for years, interacting, Alicent ruling as queen regent in the stead of Viserys, Aemond, Heleana, Aegon are known to the realm, entertaining guests and being i suspect more well liked then the blacks, due to the fact they aren't some super entitled god complex people and not having bastard kids.
The Greens also have the coolest and most badass dragon besides Vhagar which is Sunfyre. Show only watchers haven't seen what Sunfyre is capable of and the heart and perseverance of that young dragon
Don't sleep on the blue queen tessarion she was amazing
I m green from start and i m glad someone else also think like me
You can tell the show runners want you to root for the blacks because on the surface they seem to be in line with their progressive thinking and for that reason I just cannot stand them. Not that I care very much about this show to begin with lol
Thank you! Some fresh air of common sense and integrity from all the insanity.
Based and green pilled
I will always on Team Green no matter what. 💚
Always glad to see the rare Green supporter around here! I personally believe in Rhaenyra's claim better (as the named heir), but as you've suggested medieval history never really went that smoothly. With Aegon around and her siring of very obvious bastards, there's way too many things that put her claim to question. That's a recipe for disaster in the medieval times, especially when other claims are present. Viserys failed to secure her succession in life, and the king's words don't hold much power in death.
That being said, I don't think it's right to say Aegon was never taught to rule. Alicent has prepared him for the possibility his whole life, and Aegon responded to this by rejecting his duty. He doesn't have the attitude of a ruler but that hasn't stopped kings from having stable rules (e.g. Bobby B's reign, early Aerys/Tywin reign). Maybe he could have been better given proper role models - Alicent isn't a natural mother and Viserys largely ignored Alicent's children, but alas we're stuck with current Aegon and it won't get any better.
Both sides are a mess, but I sympathize with the Greens way more and I like how you've articulated all my thoughts about them. We know how it'd all go given spoilers, but that doesn't take away from the fun of rooting for them.
Greens lose
@@jamesgraham246 no one wins except daemon. aegon iii ascends as aegon ii´s heir, and mainly because he is daemon´s son. not rhaenyra´s.
Team Green for sure!
Yeah! Long live misogyny!
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518and long live bastards!
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Yeah, should women have carte blanche because... Wamen
@@podes2204 Of course not. But Rhaenyra wasn't even allow to act in first place. If she was terrible ruler ad Greens proposed Aegon as better alternative, then sure - go for it. But Greens never alowed her to rule - they crowned Aegon immiediately and not because Aegon was fit to rule, but because he was a man.
@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Start using that brain of yours and put things into perspective. This isn't modern times so stop using modern terms. In these times you had to respect the laws and rules of the system and be content with that.
Here are some responses for anyone who is Team Green and is arguing someone on Team Black.
TLDR "Everything the Greens do can be justified really well in the context of a medieval world."
1. "King's chosen heir." Laws matter way more than one king's preference. If it isn't law then custom or precedent can play the same role if they are the only existing framework. When a king choses an heir that's not the heir by the laws it's called an alternate sucession. Alternate sucessions basically never work as the heir by law usually shows up with the support of the whole country and claims the throne anyway. Jaehaerys I convened a great council because he needed something other than the king's mere world to guarantee his successor's absolute right to the throne. Btw, King Viserys I was descended from the second son so truth be told Rhaenys should be the Queen even by male preference primogeniture (Not really). The only thing keeping Viserys' side of the family on the throne is direct male descent Jaehaerys I succeeded over Aerea and he succeeded over Rhaenys. That's common law and precedent established and upheld twice over.
2. "Continuity of sexist rules"
Now folks, pay attention because this probably the most essential thing you need to get across in a potential debate. The whole point of hereditary monarchy and succession rules held to consistently ARE to create a stable continuity. If it's thrown out the window the realm devolves into conflicting claims and civil war. We see this in both HOTD and Game of Thrones.
"I'm king because of the common law."
"Yes, but I'm queen because the last king named me."
"Oh, we are throwing rules out the window? I'm king because I'm most suited!"
This is the worst case scenario so while yes, the system is biased and unfair just like other institutions of the time such as hereditary office and feudalism there was a necessity for them.
3. "Alicent is wrong for going against Rhaenyra." If her 3 sons are the first heirs by law and Viserys picks Rhaenyra then he's just disinherited all of her sons for no reason. As a medieval queen they are probably all that she has. Is it wrong for her to fight for them after they were abandoned by their father? No! She was married off from far away and has no friends at court. She's more of a victim than Rhaenyra.
4. "Rhaenyra wouldn't eliminate her brothers." Realistically it would be extremely stupid for her to not. Even if none of her 3 brothers fight for the throne their descendants down the line probably would. You can see why Jace marrying Helaena would solve nothing.
5. "Rhaenyra's children being bastards doesn't matter because perception is what matters." First, everyone knows they are bastards so perception is not on her side. Second, the issue is not that she has bastards. (Lets not be sexist!) The issue is that they are in line over her legitimate sons. This horrible decision made her lose a lot of support she would've otherwise had.
6. "Hightowers heirs are not true blood of the dragon. Rhaenyra's family is." Irrelevant because it is false and doesn't effect claim to the throne. Also, the hyper elitist Targaryens who think their valyrian race makes them better than everyone else make the most evil Targaryen kings. The best Targaryen kings did their best to assimilate as much as possible.
7. The violence of the Greens against the Blacks was not justified." Blood and Cheese. When your enemy within the country literally walks in to your castle and butchers the innocent child heir to the throne you can't let that slide as king. It would destroy the very foundation of your kingship if the people who did it were not obliterated. No wonder the common folk were team Green.
8. "Aemond is a war criminal." Luke is a bastard who cut out the eye of a prince in a medieval world. Real medieval rulers did more to their enemies with torches and soldiers than Aemond did with Vhagar.
9. "Otto is pure evil." There's nothing that makes Otto exceptionally evil for a man of his setting. Most lords would've taken the opportunity to marry their daughter to the unmarried king without a son as well. In fact, he's such a pragmatic and tallented statesman that even Jaehaerys recognized him.
10. "Daemon is cool." Daemon is the villian of the show. He's a bad influence on Rhaenyra. If you don't believe me just think about every major action he took so far, who he married, which battles he fought. They were all to get him closer to the throne. Even being so enthusiastic about fighting the dance when nobody else was. Blood and Cheese is completely unjustifiable even in a medieval world. Again, no wonder the small folk were Team Green!
11. "It is not clearly defined in Westeros what legitimacy means." If you are crowned by the high septon then you are a king of Westeros. It's as simple as that. In the medieval world the church is the most powerful institution. If the church supports a King then small folk and lords alike will flock to him but if he's excommunicated they will abandon him probably. Notice how most of Rhaenyra's supporters follow the Old Gods or the Drown Gods or the Valyrian Gods. The Greens have the largest cities being King's Landing, Oldtown, and Lannisport and the population. This is why they always have a nice royal army running around btw.
12. "Team Black is right because they win in the end." Team Green won. The right of male line Targaryens became absolute. Aegon III's regency council was very Green. The future Targaryen kings were supposed to be descended from the Greens through Queen Jaehaera but she died prematurely.
13. "Viserys was progressive." He supports Rhaenyra only because she was descended from Aemma. He wants Aemma's descendants on the throne at all costs because he still feels guilty. If Aegon was Aemma's son he would've been named by Viserys in an instant. He doesn't really care about making the realm better for other women and neither does Rhaenyra.
14. "Aegon is not fit to rule." Neither is Rhaenyra. The difference is that Aegon has people around him who are excellent rulers. Rhaenyra has Corlys but she discards him after he gives her good advice.
The kings word is the law.
Agreed on every point 😁💚
But also furthermore
3. Rhaenyra and Daemon also showed themselves to be ruthless. Having Otto removed for being a threat, asking for her little brother to be tortured to save face, 'killing' Laenor to marry each other, and executing Vaemond. The greens have every reason to believe she'd kill them. And marrying Helaena to Jace just makes her a potential hostage and puts her and her descendants in danger should his legitimacy be questioned down the line.
5. The team black supporters/Rhaenyra/Daemon/Dany fans are going really hard on the whole blood supremacy thing and it's getting really weird. And then they'll switch to caring about being progressive just to call team green misogynistic which is just hilarious to me. Cause Rhaenyra 'Ill fight for my rights but screw everyone else's' Targaryen and Daemon 'I like to compare my wife to a sheep and then kill her' Targaryen are not feminists 😂
13. Rhaenyra has had so long to prepare and to prepare Jace. Yet as soon as she faces a political problem she has to go ask daddy to save her. And despite the fact that she's fluent in Valyrian she clearly didn't speak it to him as a kid and now he has to learn it.
In conclusion, you're totally right 💚💚
@@cheshirevixen8881 You are right as well! Something I forgot to mention is that for 11 you could also say that Rhaenyra was never acknowledged as monarch by any the future Targaryens including her own son's even though they are all her descendants.
Also, if none of this logic gets through to team Black fans a response could just be to say that GOT villains are better because they use the actual medieval political systems of the setting to win and that's what made the original Game of Thrones and characters like Tywin, Varys, Olenna, and Petyr so great. Dragons and video game esqe boss moments did not. In this aspect, team green has the total advantage. They basically only have 3 dragons but win using their dragons properly and effective leadership. They are always using them to guard their armies or scout for example. I promise that Sunfyre, Vhagar, Tessarion, and the Greens will put on a real show. If Aemond didn't break formation once then Aegon II and the royal army would have their absolute victory.
💚💚💚
@@yusufraage8554this!
@@yusufraage8554 If that is the case Bobby B would not have overthrown the Mad King because his word was law even though his coin flip landed on cray cray, just like Mad Queen Dany.
💚💚💚💚💚
My friends think I’m crazy for siding with the Greens. You’ve validated my reasoning. Thank you 🙏🏼
Been green from the start 💚💚💚💚 Happy to find others!
Maybe you aren't crazy but you are misogynist for sure! Congratulations! 😉
@@danika9411 The fact people in 21st century support misogyny is beyond me... 😳😳
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 This has nothing to do with misogyny.
First Daemon is written like a character that has sociopathy/narcissistic personality disorder. He lacks empathy as already shown in the very first episode when he smiles! while mutilating people without a fair trial. You can hear someone yelling "r@pist" and the person gets their balls cut off. This reminded me of history and which hunts ( which we had plenty where I live, I'm from Europe ) and it is absolutely disgusting behaviour.
He uses the divorce rock on his wife, uses slurs, chockes his 3rd wife, ruins Rhaenyras reputation on purpose and leaves the crown princess in the city in a dangerous place alone, after acknowledging himself that parts of Kings Landing are frightning and almost lawless. Which could get her k*lled worst case scenario. He has bad temper, and the emotional intelligence of a toddler.
So basically I'm on team not Daemon. Rhaenyra is spoiled and removed from reality due to her sheltered upbringing.
She was never held accountable for anything and it shows. She at 18 doesn't even know you have to pay for food in Kings Landing. She doesn't understand these things. She is also basically in Cerceis position ( not Cercei herself ) right now having 3 illegitimate children. And she did set them up for failure. Something like that destabilises the realm.
Now do I like Aegon? No, the guy is crap. But he has an experienced council and legitimate heirs. So despite me not liking him, the realm would be in better condition.
But I guess it's easier to just call people misogynists. Because then you don't have to actually think.
@@danika9411 It has EVERYTHING to do with misogyny. I deel the same way as you about Daemon. I don't like him at all. But I completely disgaree with your stand on Rhaneyra. She is NOT spoiled. (And if she is - so is Aegon. )She was basically force to marry man who couldn;t get her a child - she had to find them somhwere else. It was her dutiy as heir. Aegon has legitimate heirs??? Hold me! He is USRPER, his children aren't legitimate heirs to throne. And he has "experinced MISOGYNISTIC council". NONE dishneirited Rhnaeyra because shse was unfit to rule. They disnehrited her ONY because of her gender. So, yeah, if you support Greens, you are misogynists. All Rhaneyra children are legally legitimate and most kingdom still suppport them. You are misogynist, because you support taking away woman right only because of her gender.
I feel like regardless of Aegon being a rapist which is horrible (if anything Aemond should be king) people want Rhaenyra because she is presented as far more noble and good than the books actually have her (spoiled immature woman) and girl power. I mean placing modern society’s views on this society. And seriously do they forget that regardless of the circumstances of Laenor and his acceptance of those boys, they are not legitimate. By giving them titles and rights they don’t deserve Rhaenyra insults all lords and legitimate children claiming that bastards are worthy of the same titles when they are not
Rhaenyra is a baby killer wich is worse than a grapist. The double standard is crazy toward the green
That's not true at all... People want Rhaenyra because she is by law the rightful heir...
By tradition she is not but the king can do whatever he wants to do and he named her.
Let’s not forget that Rhenearas bastards were spoiled shits who helped Aegon TORMENT Aemond about not having a dragon. Ganged up on him after he claimed Vhagar (dragons choose their riders, it’s just as likely those little girls would have been burned alive if they tried) and when he defended himself, one of them cut out his eye. As you mentioned “with no consequences”.
Anyone who supports the blacks is willfully ignorant of how spoiled they are.
Green represent traditions, disciplines and sacrifice. As Alicent is the head of the family
i actually agree that the greens are in the right totally but i know thats a unpopular opinion, i also know what happens lol
They lose
@@jamesgraham246 everyone looses 😭
@@jamesgraham246 Fuc The Blacks Dead Dood Go Read The Book
They win @@jamesgraham246
@@jamesgraham246The Greens win by upholding tradition. The also helped keep Aegon III alive to be the next ruler.
The green team > the black team
I left a comment on a previously video name "Aemond Did Nothing Wrong" about Season 1 episode 7, I think is an important issue but almost no one on the internt talks about how Rhaenyra reacted. Here is the issue:
"Don`t forget the fact that Rhaenyra demanded that Aemond be torturer, the term “questioned sharply” is a euphemism for torturing in a Song of Ice and Fire. Just to point out for those saying Rhaenyra would never harm Alicent`s children."
What do you guys think about Rhaenyra`s attitude?
When Rhaenyras bastards could mutilate Alicents children and the king hardly even took notice of that but instead threw a fit over Aemond calling Luke and Jace bastards and Rhaenyra demanded torture that hit home how much of a second thought Alicents children really had become. Even though they are his firstborn sons and by all the rules should be of higher station. After that and the Vaemond incident Alicent had every reason to fear for her childrens life should Rhaenyra take power
@@pg1448 I 100% agree Alicent is justify to fear for her children. My question is why the showrunners didn`t make more clear that Rhaenyra was willing to torture Aemond.Most people didn´t understood that the term "questioned sharply" is the same as torture, when reviers talk about episode 7 they don´t mention the torture part.They focus on Alicent acting "crazy" {because having your kid loosing an eye, having the father of the kid (the king) not carring at all, and having the favorite daughter of the king ( Rhaenyra) demanding the torture of the kid, is not good reason to act like that }. Did you think the showrunners didn´t want people to understant Rhaenyra´s inetentions? Would´t be better to for the show if was more direct about her demand?
@@williamfilho4810they did. However what the show is doing with Rhaenyra is the same thing GoT did with Danaerys in that they are making the audience see Rhaenyra through rose colored glasses and not actually pay attention to what she’s doing. However, it seems some in the audience aren’t falling for that trick this time.
Rhaenyra basically said what aemond said about her kids was treason. She was suggesting he be hurt or even lose his life. Treason is punishable by death.
@@williamfilho4810
I think they are trying to prop rhaenyra up as some badass feminist do what I want power symbol
Well, you are indeed brave to admit you are team green when everyone is team black. I am team green, mostly because I think that one oath is not enough to make R queen. If the oath was given AFTER Aegon`s birth - it would be a different matter. And Viserys word is the ONLY arguement why R must have crown. For me personally it is very weak claim. Because when king dies - his words die with him.
I totally agree that Raenyrs`s claims would be challenged in any case, because she is a woman. And it happens when you want to change something or be an exception/ BUT SHE DID NOTHING TO PROTECT HER CLAIM. She gave Greens every legal right to take crown from her and commited treason to crown three times! THREE TIMES. The only thing that could prevented the dance - Aegon and Raenyra marriage. NOT Halaena and Jace.
I just dont understand why Rae didnt share prophecy with Alicent and Aegon. If she wanted to be the queen and fulfill prophecy - she should have share it with people wo is a threat for this and had no idea about further consequences. But no, she did questionable things and then expected everyone to accept her as queen. Really?
At least greens know what they do and their actions have logic.
if you guys didn't knew european kings in medieval times were not able to name their heirs
even in Chinese dynasties as long as the eldest son of empress lives the other sons cannot inherit over him
0:26 One look at Aemond's cupid's bow should make any rational person support the greens 😌🔥
Because they earned it
Hail King Aegon
Finally someone with common sense
It pissed me off so much that 90% of viewers were calling Daemon a "badass" for beheading Vaemond.
What's so "badass" about murdering a highborn of a fellow Valryian house for speaking the truth, from behind his back, with Daemon going against his King's wishes, and stealing Driftmark in the process? It wasn't a cool moment at all, it was outright evil, and Daemon only did it because he is a simp for the niece that he groomed.
Everything about it makes Daemon a weak, pathetic man.
Black supporters will say that Daemon is a man motivated by his love and loyalty to Viserys. But I bet those same people were nodding along when Davos said "loyal service means telling hard truths"...
Vaemond make a back door dealing with Otto to steal Driftmark claim. Remember this, Corlys is not dead yet, but Vaemond is already lusting over his birthright. THE KING intended to cut out Veamond tongue, Daemon is just fulfill his brother wishes, not to mention Vaemond insulted his wife. If you expecting King Viserys to kill his own daughter for having a bastard then you are naive fool, he loves Rheanyra. To acknowledge her son as bastard mean putting her to death. Speaking "truth" mean nothing for King Viserys, what really important is his daughter safety, if you ever be a father then you should know better.
@@linaikrimadina ......... That's a leap of logic and a half mate.
All he had to do was say "Well you've had three illigitimate children you're no longer my heir."
Dome
@@malekiththeeternityking5433 Rheanyra line carry the prince that was promised you dumbass, he said so himself. This is bigger than the iron throne or westeros.
@@linaikrimadina Odd given Arya killed the Night King, Jon Snow was irrelevant and was nothing but a "U R muh Quen."
@@malekiththeeternityking5433 i mean Daenarys, she litterally mother of dragon
Team Green is full of Chads thats why.
Blood & Cheese plot made Team Green have my sympathy
And yet you will still see Rhaenyra and team black stans defend her even tho she is a baby killer
Rhaenyra litelary Lost 4 dragons to PLEBS and another two to bastards... SHE WAS TERRIBLE LEADER
She atrociously increased taxes, was a cruel paranoid tyrant that would've made Aerys II proud, she was a coward who fled the capital when the citizens rightfully rioted against her, she unlawfully imprisoned people, and she was such a worthless unworthy leader that the throne cut her.
Are you blind and deaf or just special the greens men did not care for him he died by his own men he lost his entire family and died to his own men
Team Green always 💚👏
Finally some one gets it. Team green all the way. 💚💚💚
Thank You!!!
💚💚💚
You are the man with guts bro!
I completely agree with everything ❤
I hope you're good I haven't even watched this video yet I just subscribed because of your name bro
Viserys Was the reason for the targeryan civil war and ultimate civil war...
He was lazy and complacent
@@trifurobert1349 top 5 worst kings
The only team black character I like and respected was rhaenys before she did that to the people.
Yeah this show is actually mediocre, it's just cause of liyeral garbage like Rings of Power and She Hulk that this seemed good.
I've seen morons online DEFENDING Viserys knowing what his daughter was and still made her heir, like that's Alexander the Great level stupid in succession terms.
He had three sons, all of which are better qualified then Rhaenyra if we're talking book ones but hey, let's just have Aegon be a r@pi$t because, let's just have Rhaenys murder hundreds of civies for nothing and have a yes slaay quen moment.
Mediocrity being loved for some reaso.
Speaking facts in every video 👏
Yo go boi. Not bad you have a new subscriber
I agree 1,000%. They try to make you sympathize with those spoiled brat princess and the pedo uncle. I blame the foolish father who could have nipped the whole thing in the bud by making Aggon next in line to rule, like his father did for him, instead of the queen who never was.
Aegon deserves to be on the iron throne, the greens stand with tradition which we rarely do in this women loving real world of ours
I am team Green. Thank you.
I appreciate your videos 💚💚💚
I support greens 💚
So you support misogyny.😉
I dont know how it ends but Daemon makes me feel like he is gonna kill everything.
This is just for black supporters if you support Rhanyara than you support cercie and if you support 3 strong boys you support joffry
He is absolutely right
I’m team green bro
Cogratulations of being misogynist!
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 thank you! 😊
@@wussellwestbrick Nothing to be proud of 😑
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 The only thing you shouldn't be proud is that ignorant and asinine comment you just made. Grow up.
i don't think they denied rhaenys just for being a woman. I think it was more to keep the velayrons from ruling the kingdom considering how powerful they already are
That's a good point
Watch how them Black Stans still gonna support and praise their "queen" 💀
I think Team Green is best because their characters are indeed more interesting. I don’t think the moral high ground is necessary at all. I was totally team Lannister because Tywin and Cersei were such a delight to watch - not because I agreed with their sadistic, near-sighted selves.
I have found my home on serious note you have no idea what having a different opinions means to team black they literally call you a Nazi
The Greens have the better claim in that Aegon was the King’s First Born Son. But they drew blood first multiple times and set the war off. At that point it’s gloves off and claims don’t matter so much as swords
All fair points but I think taking sides at all kinda misses the point. Incest tyrannical dragon family bad for the realm. Green or black.
In there world it isn't bad so we shouldn't consider it as such
In velerian world
Team Green 💚
Targaryen power is taken at dragonpoint. They are the invaders with bombing ability facing the tribes with sharpened sticks. So when their king decides who will be his heir, he does so without regards to the rules of the tribes, as an absolute monarch confident in his private air force.
And this is really how this story should be presented: the attempt of the tribes to have their own rules recognised by the invader and their (partial) support to one tribal family married into the ruling circle as a gradual way to regain some of their lost sovereignty.
At the core of the story, we really have the Greens continuing the politics of the old king Jaehaerys "the conciliator" clashing with the Black Valyrian hardliners and their supremacy.
Except even with the bombing ability of dragons the Targaryens are still held accountable to their subjects, Maegor the Cruel tried to disregard his subjects will and burn everyone, look what happened to him. Wise kings like Jaeherys listened to his realm when it came to matters like succession, and this set a precedent.
There is no logic behind supporting Viserys and King and then Rhaenyra, so the only real argument these people have is supporting absolute monarchy and whatever the Targaryens do, regardless of the consequences for the realm.
I like your framing though, there’s certainly an argument to be made about integration and adopting customs, but it’s important to remember that the Greens also have dragons, and that plays a huge part in the war to come, so it isn’t like this is just a native rebellion that will get crushed.
"If we are to rule the rhealms of men we must do so by there gods" I'll leave that there
So perfect! 💚
Come on guys. Is sunfyre not the coolest name for a dragon in the show??
I rewatched the 1st season twice before the new season came out and...little by little, I switched teams. Team black-> Team green. I realized that Aegon is not fit to rule but he brings stability after him, whereas Rheanyra brings nothing but bastards who should not be rulers
Spot on mate. Can’t argue with this.
Besides the fact that this is an amoral fight for power and survival and ruling over people is not a right, it's important to remember that the Green's claim was legal.
Targaryen Kings are often deluded enough to believe their word alone can change millennia of Westerosi tradition, but the non-Targaryen houses know better.
House Targaryan might delude themselves into believing they are an absolute monarchy, but they are not. There were still bound by most pre-established Westerosi laws.
The Green Council was established because Viserys's fuck up created two conflicting and valid claims to the throne.
The King's new law (the legally weak expectation he made for his daughter) was flimsy at best and a conflict for succession would be inevitable as soon as he died.
Peace was never an option, not even for Rhaenyra. She might have let Aegon live if he never tried to take the throne and was fully under her control as a Queen, but the option of killing him as soon as he becomes a potential threat was always on the table. Daemon would have certainly convinced her of such if she ever had any reservations. Ironically, both sides committed high treason to secure their claim, so the only way to settle the matter was by winning the war (since both sides rejected all prior peaceful solutions by this point).
Even IF the Greens had no valid claim, the Targaryen House was notorious for constantly breaking Westerosi rules because they believed themselves to be closer to Godhood. It often has been a fight for dominance among them, anyway. And since rules were never binding to Targaryens, why should they be binding against anyone else opposing them (AKA: the Hightowers)?
Say that last sentence one more time!!!!!
Please write another video essay about House of the Dragons 🙏
good content tariq 10/10
Very Genuine Video ❤ Kuddos To You...
I believe in team green supremacy
I’m team green because westori culture and the Baratheons (plus they’re less inbreed)
I love your commentary tariq
Also while men FOOL around, the Bastards ARE Bastards. Only the children of the legal wife have a right to inheritance. Bastards, have no rights, beyong any love their father is willing to extend them.
The Double standard is there, but ..... well no but. It is a complete double standard.
💚💚💚💚
5:18 Kings having Bastard's isn't a problem unless the king legitimises his bastard's
When a woman has Bastard's, those bastard's will inherit the mans everything which they dont deserve , like how lucerys was going to get driftmark without having any viseryon blood
1:10
It Was Presented To The Lords, different houses and They All Bent The Knee 😩
If anyone had an issue with Rhaenyra being Viserys heir, no one brought their issue before King Viserys... So, going behind Viserys back, after his death is wrong... Green Team caused a lot of the division between the different houses, fighting for what they wanted verses what Viserys wanted... And if we're going to pick the lesser əvil, it'd definitely be Rhaenyra, Agone was a M0NSTER...
Following this rare person of great logic.
Well, I applaud you for daring to argue for the greens 😂😂😂
Glad to have another team green supporter
Team green!
Fast forward to season 2 now
Are you stiil on team green ?
Yes
Yeah I'm team green and I am based asf in that, And as far as feminism goes, I don't really think it SHOULD matter if someone is a feminist or not, You Can't apply feminism ways of thinking to something that's based in medieval times, Cause that's just not how things were back then.
(and no I'm not a feminist, I'm just saying just because someone is one, thinking with a feminism mind isn't justified in this case)
I think the Greens will be more likable during Rhaenyra’s tyrannical reign on the Iron Throne.
My support lies with this is a massive spoiler by the way so if you haven't read the books do not go on further reading this King aegon III and jaehaera 1
Team Green is number 1!
The claim goes to whoever has a monopoly over violence.
All targs are bad, Bobby B was the true Azor Ahai
Bobby B is the great hero of Westeros. Rid us of those nasty sociopaths of Targshits.
Based
I think you just won the debate
Could never switch up on my goat bobby "Him" baratheon
Based on
Personally team black but great video and you’ve presented a lot of good points
😼🔥🔥
YESS....WHY DO PEOPLE MISS THE POINT......THE BLACKS ARENT EVEN TARGARYEN.....NOW WE KNOW WHY THE TARGARYENS FELL....THE DANCE WAS ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY
Tbh idc too much about the law of first born son, aegon has a birth right? Yes but thats not my reason to support him. I love him as king bc he (and alicent my beloved) have all the right to defend themselves, they own rhaenyra nothing after what happened to aemond, they just don't trust her & daemon, besides tb is kinda cringe, daemon is pushing 60 and fighting teens (like alicent brother), and everyone thinks he is so cool 😆
TEAM GREEN!!!!
SPOILER!
Aemond and Deamon kill each ither and their dragons in an epic duel
that b1txh Rhanera (however its spelled) gets eaten Alive (slowly!) by Aegons dragon.
Yeah... supporting misogynists and creeps on throne is now apparently cool.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 the blacks are greedy, selfish, irresponsible, sociopathic narcissists! Get a grip on life, weirdo..
@@a_fuckin_spacemarine7514 Blacks are rightfull heirs. Their potential flaws don't justify Grreens usurpation. You are one who is weirdo.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Blacks are all a bunch of pathetic losers. I'm so glad history names Aegon II the King, while Rhaenyra is forever remembered as nothing but a usuper and a traitor and blamed for the war. She deserved every bit of it. So cathartic that her own younger sons agreed to let history vilify their own horrible mother. Even Aegon III and Viserys II know what an awful "human being" their mommy Rhaenyra was...HA. So hated, that no Targaryen ever named their daughters after her.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518rightful in what way ever since Aegon was born the council said the throne wasn't secure for Raenyra. Aegon is the first born son in a patriarchal kingdom.