People talk a lot about Rheanyra's looks, meanwhile Aegon II and Helaena were also on the thicker side. Also we have no PoV for any of the characters in Fire and Blood, everything comes from multiple sources that often conflicts one another so we will not ever truly know how Rheanyra felt about Alicent.
@eeyun5279 The whole unreliable thing came from George RR Martin himself. He said that Fire and Blood is to be taken with a grain of salt because it was written by the victors and from second hand accounts.
I just asked this type of question in a reddit sub and got half ass answers or answers that weren't related to the question. This is what I was wondering. Is there an actual chapter of first hand experience or just stories told down through generations. I found my answer in a YT Short comment section
@@jazzcazzbazznazz4778 yea, it just said rhae gained weight after childbirth, alicent didn't. The actresses mirror what the books and video said. Rhae almost just had her 6th kid, so its deff been like 10 years atleast.
Not all of them look better. Joffrey, Theon, bran, Arya, Catlyn, daemon, and all the dragons look better in the books and not done enough justice in terms of beauty on the shows.
Thick of waist...hmmm..this would mean bigger thighs, glutes legs... That actually doesn't sound too bad. 🤔 as long as get from thicc to overweight. Or have too much of a belly, but that's my preference.
Art imitates life. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same situation throughout history. A lot of royalty I can assume are so removed from reality, the everyday real-world struggles of their subjects, that jealousy among their members for such petty things (who has the biggest castle, the best horse, nicer jewels/dresses or prettier appearance), wouldn't be unheard of.
@@csegovia8846 It’s entirely possible Rhaenyra did lose her looks and was jealous of Alicent’s retained beauty, but it’s not a reason people start wars, much less women doing so. It is, therefore, a detail irrelevant to a history retelling…except maybe from the perspective of a male author who may have implicit biases about how women behave lol.
Not entirely true. The books is not an objective pov but the show is VERY different from the books and not because it is the “actual” story but because they are writing a different story where the women are trying to do the right thing but the males are BAD and patriarchy is “controlling” them. In the books instead rhaenyra and alicent were way more complex with each having their own lust for power and the side characters were more iconic in their own way. Criston Cole and daemon Targaryen especially. If you want an example rhaenys hair should be black which is a big plot point in the books because it doesn’t make rhaenyra children 100% surely bastards.
Well the accounts take Black and Green prespectives and although Aegon II won the war, it was Rhaenyra's son who continued the line and could have rewritten history. This leaves us with pretty much middle ground believable stories.
The book is an In-universe history book, written by multiple unreliable sources with reason to skew events to make themselves or their side (in the dance) look better.
Not entirely true. The books is not an objective pov but the show is VERY different from the books and not because it is the “actual” story but because they are writing a different story where the women are trying to do the right thing but the males are BAD and patriarchy is “controlling” them. In the books instead rhaenyra and alicent were way more complex with each having their own lust for power and the side characters were more iconic in their own way. Criston Cole and daemon Targaryen especially. If you want an example rhaenys hair should be black which is a big plot point in the books because it doesn’t make rhaenyra children 100% surely bastards.
@@lorenzozinco9664 - ENTIRELY TRUE according to GRRM himself. As I stated earlier, the book is an In-universe history book, written by multiple unreliable sources with reason to skew events to make themselves or their side (in the dance) look better. The show, on the other hand, is us watching the events "actually" unfold, so to speak.
@@carastone3473 you don’t understand man. Alicent in the show never interacted with jaherys (the previous king), daemon was in a complete different place when his first wife died and she wasn’t a badass women. Daemon had to marry her when HE was VERY young ., rhaenys hair should be BLACK like in the books which is an important plot point. This show is simply trying to make the women more sympathetic instead of making them complex as Daenerys or cersie or other so called “bad” women.
The book gives several Povs but most of the knowledge is supposed to be pretty objective. The disputed parts are the more scandalous details like Rhaenyra cutting herself up on the iron throne, her relationship with the kings guard, etc Or Mushroom (court jester, pro rhaenyra) told details like the allegation Daemon slept with Alicient Hightower first.
@@akachied4166quit throwing the word simp around, admiring someone’s beauty isn’t being a whipping post. They *are gorgeous* younger and older versions fr.
@@akachied4166 stop acting like you NEVER expressed your attraction for someone before, everybody in the damn world have expressed their attraction for someone before in one way or another including your parents clearly because you were born
Yes but it was necessary from the standpoint of wanting to continue his bloodline no matter what. If Rhaenrya died and her line as well, he would need another way to secure his bloodlines succession. It was just the way of things, despite the obvious tension it created... and probably putting his succession in even more danger really, considering them being likely to go to war over it and kill all of each other.
The man needs a woman, or do you want him to become a male nun?? Also it's important to have many children as a king to save your bloodline. You never know if a war or illness comes
He didnt want Daemon and Rhaenyra married bc He chose Rhaenyra as heir partly bc He didnt want Daemon to become heir and potentially take the throne. And by having them marry Daemon would end up as King if Rhaenyra become Queen. I think that was the reason
I think it was both that Aegon and haelena are half blooded also, haelena had a dragon that would grant another, house westeros more power if she married out , that's why jaehaerys 's, younger daughters who never claimed dragons were married out to other houses while Alyassa married into her family then also to keep their blood line pure
@@richardjames5147 The biggest piece of the puzzle was Viserys knew that the crown was in a precarious position and desperately needed to sure up the throne with a strategic marriage.
Oh several reasons, first of all being that he probably didn't trust Daemon at all and Rhaenyra was supposed to be his heir. Second, he probably expected Rhaenyra to marry in a politically advantageous marriage
@@propogandalfIt is his fault. They did not imply that he was infertile, they implied that there was no joy, hence they could’ve brought in a squire that Laenor liked then all three do the deed. When Laenor ejaculated, he does in Rheanyra. A little creativity could’ve prevented a lot of death.
It Rhaenyra fault. She was given YEARS to found herself a husband. She could have had anyone she wanted. But instead she decided to be stupid and act like a brat. And she also followed Daemon in a brothel, which would have ruined her reputation if Otto didn't tell Viserys to prevent the news of reaching everyone. Which is why she was forced to marry Laenor. And it not like it was said that Laenor was infertile. All we know is that they both didn't like being intimate with each other. And Rhaenyra had her first kid like a year after they got married. So obviously they probably tried for like a month before deciding to explore other option. Because if Jace was born maybe 2 years after their wedding, then maybe we could have argue that Laenor was infertile. But even then, some people take years before becoming pregnant. And there no way for both of them to found that the other is infertile in less than a year. Even with modern technology it not 100% possible to say that someone is infertile. So back in the days, it would be unlikely. Especially after little time together.
@@tnlkb6115honestly her dad loved her enough to have let her marry harwin strong. i have no idea why she just didn't do that instead of making a mess of everything
@@pokemcnmaster For real. She could have had anyone she wanted. Anyone except Daemon since he was married at the time. But even then, it not like she never showed attention to other men. If she wanted to secure a powerful house allegiance, then she should have married one of their heirs. Or if she wanted to have an husband that would let her have all of the power, than a heir from a lower house should have been her best option. Or if she really wanted to marry for love or even even sex, than she should have chosen a handsome knight or something. (Since her type seem to be an handsome and strong kinght) Basically, unlike 95% of the women in Westeros, Rhaenyra was given alot of chances and opportunity that even powerful men would envy. And instead of doing something productive and smart with it, she always put pleasure over duty. And i know that her fans always say it sexist of people to expect her to do alot of thing just to secure her position just because she is a woman. Or that if she was a man, nobody would care of anything bad and stupid she did. But the thing is, Rhaenyra isn't just some woman. She the FIRST female royal heir in the targaryen house. And so because she is first, she need to prove herself. Just like Aegon the first had to prove himself to become king. It only natural. As for her marriage with Laenor, if it really was about getting an heir asap and that Laenor couldn't deliver, then she should have chosen her lover to be someone from the velaryon house. For what we saw there is at least 2 other option of men of that house that could have help. Yes it nasty, but then again duty isn't suppose to always be easy to do. There always the option of getting anyone with a darker complexion to help too. At least it would be easier to lie about their parentage even if the kids doesn't end up with white hairs. There also the option of having a threesome with Laenor and his lover and have him ejaculate inside her at the end. Basically, Rhaenyra had options if she had spend more than 5 minutes thinking about her duty. But she didn't. And even if she had fucked up once and had Jace with Harwin, she should have change her partner and not continue to have 2 other children with the same man. That common sense. Don't expect anything different by making the same mistake over and over again.
I think the younger Actress of Alicent is allready way prettier than Rheanyra, Emma D'arcy however, i wouldn't even consider her unconventionally attractive.
As someone who's attracted to women, No Alicent just looks okay. What I consider pretty is young Rachel McAdams, Hathaway, etc. At least D'Arcy makes me have a girl crush on her being Rhaenyra. Whereas Cooke.. Na. Ah. Sorry but just no
Really that’s what you over to bitterness towards her stepmother? I thought it was the fact that her best friend was sleeping with her father. And the relationship started while it was behind her back😏
Imagine your best friend marry your dad... 😅 Talk about yikes.. Friendship is ends when your BESTIE is your stepmom and having your half-siblings. Soooooo weird ..
The book is biased as hell. Like we don’t know exactly how “thick of waist” she was like whether or not she was truly overweight or if she just literally grew up & hot hips etc as they were popping out babies as teenagers like that’s kind of the beauty of fire and blood is there’s no reliable narrators, but they all agree. She was “thick of waist “but we don’t know what that means to the various narrators so we have to draw our own conclusion 🤷🏻♀️. But i mean Alicent was also a monster and started rumors of Rhaenyra being a whore when she was 12/13. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg of stuff her and the greens did.
In the books they have huge age gap so I can understand a kid wanting to be as an adult they see, they were not friends its more Snowhite and Evil step mother
They were writte by People directly from Rheanyras Lingeage. She is the Mother of the Victors Side. Anyone thought that she was written as a cruel Idiot because ... she is a cruel Idiot, and not sexism.
@@Nimbus-qn5pyIt was written by the maesters of old town. Which I might remind you, is THE SEAT OF THE HIGHTOWERS. It wasn't written by the Targeryeans themselves. You think the royal family didn't have anything better to than legging it to the citadel to fact check books? Not mention it was G.R.R Martin himself who said the book was baised against Raehynera. Or do you think you know more than the writer himself?
@@zodiac5403 make your own fantasy if u want grrm never said that. And rhaenyra was always voluptuous girl at 14 years and when she became older she naturally gained more fat after all the pregnancies, even aegon and haeleana were fat. Not everything is a conspiracy by maesters or hightower if that was the case then each and every history book written by the maester should not be believed.
Not entirely true. The books is not an objective pov but the show is VERY different from the books and not because it is the “actual” story but because they are writing a different story where the women are trying to do the right thing but the males are BAD and patriarchy is “controlling” them. In the books instead rhaenyra and alicent were way more complex with each having their own lust for power and the side characters were more iconic in their own way. Criston Cole and daemon Targaryen especially. If you want an example rhaenys hair should be black which is a big plot point in the books because it doesn’t make rhaenyra children 100% surely bastards.
It's odd how the Maesters of the Citadel seem to always criticize the ship out of Rhaenyra. Wait, where are they based out of again? Ah yes, Oldtown, where the Hightowers are from.
Did you know the show is directed by someone who hates the green and clearly is not very good at maths since alicent is 9 years older and her fourth son and rhaenyra eldest are the same age😂.
@ratikantrout1865 this is crazily inaccurate. Sympathetic greens everywhr . Pple can actually relate to them. If the actually casted the greens the way they were portrayed , everybody will hate them from beginning to end.
@@linakerr9856 what's wrong with that? Portray them as vile as they are in the book. That's what I like about the dance the first time I read it. I didn't choose a side because it is a familial dispute between siblings and how they destroyed their house dragons the symbol of their power.we are not supposed to root for the leaders.
@ratikantrout1865 well, the way I see it pple aren't born evil, they have to show us how they got to the point as they were written in the books , also when you think about how the books were written you'd get to understand dat not everything is correct in the books, none of des characters have any pov, yet these maesters write as if they are in der heads, den u have mushroom dat embellishes his own tales , . We can just conclude that most of what was written were lies or exaggerated tales.
I love how everyone is blaming the in universe authors for this kind of thing and talking about how time and politics and perspectives can be skewed.....completely forgetting that GRRM wrote the books.
Yes he wrote it, and he was also the one who declared the books canonically has unreliable narration. GRRM probably thinks fans would fight over it, interpreting this and that. Wouldn't that be a clever way to hype up his books?
kind of similar to the writings of roman emperors. For a while, we took the writing as absolute but soon realised that some information was bias and was written 100s of years after said events .
@@kelseylogas1580 are you good, pookie? GRRM wrote this story from unreliable point of views and he’s been very open abt that🙃🙃sooooo….what’s good?can you read??
@@MrMinevision1Not exactly. While Alicent's child were Targaryens, Daenerys and Jon both came from Rhaenyra's line from her son Viserys with Daemon. Alicent's side died out when her granddaughter died without children.
@@jedimasters1462 You're comment whilst speaking factual information is false when it said "not exactly". If Viserys Targaryen is Daenarys Ancestor. Then all of his children are also her ancestors.... Basic Logic that a lot of people are refusing to acknowledge.
@@MrMinevision1 While the greens are of Viserys's line, Daenerys comes from Rhaenyra's line. All of Old Valyria are ancestors to Daenerys and House Targaryen, yet they are not the line she comes from directly.
Green propaganda, we all know who envy and jealous of who, who crazy enough to steal the crown and also being crybaby because viserys will also chose rhae
I have a question, Aegon the younger was Rheanyras Son, so who thinks anybody would portray the Mother of the ruling monarch as a fat and later cruel Idiot when that was not who she was.
@@MrMinevision1 yess, but her lineage was the one that survived, but she was still portrayed as a cruel idiot. Not because of how history is written by the winners. But because, she was!
@@Nimbus-qn5pyOr because Aegon was a traumatized child that was too scared to argue much. After all, he has witnessed his uncle feed his mother to the man's dragon and probably felt like he had to agree to everything just to protect himself. Remember, he was a small child when the Dance ended and he believed then that his entire family was dead. Then, when the book was written and made available, he probably was brainwashed into believing that his mother was like that. That happens a lot in wars.
@Nimbus-qn5py well icl to you. I feel sorry for Rhaenyra more than anything. She is stupid. And I do believe the greens are in the right. But it's one of those situations where its the parents fault. The terrible and arguably worst King FOR the targaryen dynasty Viserys
The show is so biased towards Team Black that it doesn’t even want to stick to canon when it comes to its main character because apparently it’s mYsOgIniStIc if Rhaenyra isn’t perfect in everything 💀
The show is biased towards both teams let be real. They made the Greens more sympathetic in the show compared to the books by making this whole war mostly based on a miscommunication instead pure greed.
So u want the books that are clearly biased towards the greens? At least the show stands in the middle. Changes were made to both teams. I don't see anyone complaining that aegon isn't fat 🤷 or that haelena isn't fat or viserys . It's only rhaenyras, and you'd hear pple saying the show is biased.... look how sympathetic the greens are in the show.
In the books the greens had zero justification. Alicent has been made into this whole victim while in the books she was literally the main villain not some young girl married at 14-15. Otto's removal as hand had nothing to do with Rhaenyra sleeping with Crispy, it happened because he continuously asked for her to be removed as heir. Aemond was literally just a psycho and the whole losing his eyes was even more his own fault. Aegon was honestly just as he is in the show. And Halaena wasn't some dragon dreamer. When the proposal was sent to Rhaenyra to make her give up her claim she supported it. And Daeron is not some handsome gentleman, he literally burned cities as did Aemond. Honestly you green fans are so hypocritical. You talk about how the show is in Black's favour when it literally isn't (confirming Rhaenyra's sons as bastards, making Velaryons blacks, Rhaenyra sleeping with Crispy, Luke's death being some accident). The show literally makes the Greens so 'sympahetic'. Like honestly, if the book was properly adapted there would be no green fans.
It’s not propaganda it’s written in the books. George himself wrote this stuff up and he himself favors the blacks. Yall just can’t handle anything that puts the greens in better light because the show is so proudly biased towards the blacks by making the blacks better on the show and the greens worse on the show. The show is propaganda.
Lmao how to know this content was made by man 101 right here😂 Alicent was in shape because she had to use her looks to get what she wanted and she did(for what people think it's her brain). Rhaenyra was stout because she never cared for looks, valued brains and was using them during her time.
Hmm 🤔 I'm only talking about the show, I haven't read the books yet, but Tbh I think show Rhaenyra was more on the dumb side regarding politics, she made mistake after mistake politically-wise, and acted purely on her desires and personal interests every time... She definitely wasn't using brains during her time 😅 (in the show at least)
Used her brains? When? When she couldn’t even care to employ basic manners and instead kept alienating potential allies, such as Lannisters that could have been secured as early as during Aegon’s childhood? Or maybe when instead of gaining influence and putting her people in the council using the favor that she had with Viserys to counter the Greens’ power she kept having fun with Harwin? She made no effort of learning how politics work, building her PR among the people and the realm so that being the first female monarch would go more smoothly, especially in the face of all the propaganda about male primogeniture, was bad at military strategy and managed to do badly against the Greens in the Dance while having twice as many dragons. Even dragons couldn’t save her, bro. That’s doesn’t indicate to me that brains were her strong side
Who said this? Mushroom? lmao You can't use "in the books this and that" for that specific book. That book is a history collection and collection of stories from questionable people.
Then there’s Crazy Crispy Cole... he couldn’t settle with the Princess, so he landed her stepmother Queen. XD Does it really matter who was more “beautiful” at this rate, when men are willing to go that dragonsh!t over it??
Thick of waste? I don’t think many people realize how good the women’s body look after they have children, of course, if they engage in intense physical activities. Havre meet women mother of 6 children. One of THE BEST 6 pack I ever seen and she still keep a good looking body until today. But
Several Fire and Blood characters were "stout and thick of waist" lol. (And much worse, for several of them. Viserys in the book was outright fat and his children tended to be bigger as well.) It seems it's only really brought up about Rhaenyra, though. I wonder why? *shrug*
The winner writes the history, and tbh, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the maesters and other writers wrote this in because of course women are going to be jealous of looks and weight of other women (sarcasm), and this of course leads to resentment and bitterness. I don’t think this is accurate to reality, but more a way for the in universe writers to add a bit of sexism to explain that Rhaenyra is just another irrational woman, jealous that Alicent is prettier than her, which delegitimizes her actual issues with Alicent.
Nah but I'd say they both resented each other why else did alicent take criston cole as her protector instead of letting him be arrested for his crimes to spurn rhaenyra and alicent was the one who was competing with her stepdaughter and jealous of her tbh she was crazy obsessed with her power and wanted it for herself to be number 1 queen you coming out later on we talking before all that alicent was the one jealous team black
@@emmym.1524 she is not ugly, she has some nice features, but she is definitely Not the second most Beautiful or whatever. I m not trying to be mean, just as real as i can.
Who the young Rhaenyra that was played by Milly Alcock? I thought she was beautiful. The older one played by Emma Darcy is bigger as she’s older, more mature however definitely not “stout and thick of waist”. In fact she looks like she is in great shape. She isn’t as pretty as Milly; so I assume HBO used this as a means of the comparison. Now contrary, I feel with Alicent the opposite is true. Older Alicent (Olivia Cooke) is slender, graceful, as well as more beautiful than her younger counterpart (still pretty, but growing still so she has a more youthful cute look to her. Anyway despite mixed opinions etc…. Team Black all the way!!!!🎉😊❤❤
I keep finding it weird how people like Sansa, Dani, Rhaenyra etc. are supposed to be incredibly beautifull, but in the show they are pretty much your average woman with make up on. And in cases like Rhaenyra, maybe even less then that. It's the reason I tend to like animation better for adaptions, because you have a lot more options to actually get to picture what the writer is trying to depict.
@@muhammadalam3794 I was going to say the same thing... Beauty is a matter of opinion, taste and social standards, but you truly seem to have a very limited perspective. In my opinion, most of the actresses are very pretty, but the actresses of Rhaenyra are some of the most beautiful women I have ever seen.
These maesters writing gossip and stereotypical girl stuff when it comes to recording history of female royals sound kinda pathetic it sounds like conjecture like how does a maester know rhaenyra is jealous of alicent's looks, either gossip or he made it up Ah she's a queen a woman so obviously she hates the other women for looks not serious political and personal issues Not saying that women don't do that Cersei definitely would but this case sounds a bit gossipy and fake Imagine what maesters will record about Daenerys after her death I'm sure they won't be kind even if she doesn't go the mad queen route
People talk a lot about Rheanyra's looks, meanwhile Aegon II and Helaena were also on the thicker side. Also we have no PoV for any of the characters in Fire and Blood, everything comes from multiple sources that often conflicts one another so we will not ever truly know how Rheanyra felt about Alicent.
So you try to defend one side as much as possible and assume all the bad things about the other are true? Do you work at hbo?
Bro wtf are u talking about? He's not defending anyone you absolutely stupid waste of space
@@eeyun5279
@eeyun5279 The whole unreliable thing came from George RR Martin himself. He said that Fire and Blood is to be taken with a grain of salt because it was written by the victors and from second hand accounts.
@@eeyun5279What is there to expect from the average black loyalist huh
I just asked this type of question in a reddit sub and got half ass answers or answers that weren't related to the question. This is what I was wondering. Is there an actual chapter of first hand experience or just stories told down through generations. I found my answer in a YT Short comment section
The show is not going to show Rhaenyra gaining weight. Most Everyone in Game of thrones looks better than they do in the books.
What do you mean? She at LEAST 50-60 lbs heavier than younger actress.
@@Qbgardenyeah there was a 10 year gap there. People tend to get bigger over 10 years, especially when they were just teenagers to start.
@@jazzcazzbazznazz4778 yea, it just said rhae gained weight after childbirth, alicent didn't. The actresses mirror what the books and video said. Rhae almost just had her 6th kid, so its deff been like 10 years atleast.
@@Qbgarden she’s also taller. I think the OP meant she won’t gain weight NOW, after the birth of all her kiddos
Not all of them look better. Joffrey, Theon, bran, Arya, Catlyn, daemon, and all the dragons look better in the books and not done enough justice in terms of beauty on the shows.
3 sons in 4 years😮... damn Harwin u had a really stong game
Is common for young people to be fertile. Especially if you are below 20
@@cathdanweird I know women who were in their mid to late 30s who had 3 kids in 4 years 😂 and then they complain about how hard it is
"Thick of waist"😂😭I'm cacklin!
Sounds like she just got hotter IMO 😂
Thick of waist...hmmm..this would mean bigger thighs, glutes legs...
That actually doesn't sound too bad. 🤔 as long as get from thicc to overweight. Or have too much of a belly, but that's my preference.
Saying a woman was jealous of another woman’s looks is exactly the kind of stuff I’d expect an unreliable male narrator to put in a history book lol.
Yeah, they always appeal to jealousy like we have no deeper thoughts and motivation
Took the words right out of my mouth. 😂
Art imitates life. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same situation throughout history.
A lot of royalty I can assume are so removed from reality, the everyday real-world struggles of their subjects, that jealousy among their members for such petty things (who has the biggest castle, the best horse, nicer jewels/dresses or prettier appearance), wouldn't be unheard of.
@@csegovia8846 It’s entirely possible Rhaenyra did lose her looks and was jealous of Alicent’s retained beauty, but it’s not a reason people start wars, much less women doing so. It is, therefore, a detail irrelevant to a history retelling…except maybe from the perspective of a male author who may have implicit biases about how women behave lol.
@@veronicashields4405 naw of course not, that would be a very shallow reason.
The winner writes the history.
Not entirely true. The books is not an objective pov but the show is VERY different from the books and not because it is the “actual” story but because they are writing a different story where the women are trying to do the right thing but the males are BAD and patriarchy is “controlling” them. In the books instead rhaenyra and alicent were way more complex with each having their own lust for power and the side characters were more iconic in their own way. Criston Cole and daemon Targaryen especially. If you want an example rhaenys hair should be black which is a big plot point in the books because it doesn’t make rhaenyra children 100% surely bastards.
Well the accounts take Black and Green prespectives and although Aegon II won the war, it was Rhaenyra's son who continued the line and could have rewritten history. This leaves us with pretty much middle ground believable stories.
I was more or less referring to a common saying. Not necessarily GOT/HotD.
So you admit the greens won?
@@ashebull123 I will NEVER admit that!! Lol! 😂
The book is an In-universe history book, written by multiple unreliable sources with reason to skew events to make themselves or their side (in the dance) look better.
Not entirely true. The books is not an objective pov but the show is VERY different from the books and not because it is the “actual” story but because they are writing a different story where the women are trying to do the right thing but the males are BAD and patriarchy is “controlling” them. In the books instead rhaenyra and alicent were way more complex with each having their own lust for power and the side characters were more iconic in their own way. Criston Cole and daemon Targaryen especially. If you want an example rhaenys hair should be black which is a big plot point in the books because it doesn’t make rhaenyra children 100% surely bastards.
@@lorenzozinco9664 - ENTIRELY TRUE according to GRRM himself. As I stated earlier, the book is an In-universe history book, written by multiple unreliable sources with reason to skew events to make themselves or their side (in the dance) look better. The show, on the other hand, is us watching the events "actually" unfold, so to speak.
@@carastone3473 you don’t understand man. Alicent in the show never interacted with jaherys (the previous king), daemon was in a complete different place when his first wife died and she wasn’t a badass women. Daemon had to marry her when HE was VERY young ., rhaenys hair should be BLACK like in the books which is an important plot point. This show is simply trying to make the women more sympathetic instead of making them complex as Daenerys or cersie or other so called “bad” women.
The book gives several Povs but most of the knowledge is supposed to be pretty objective.
The disputed parts are the more scandalous details like Rhaenyra cutting herself up on the iron throne, her relationship with the kings guard, etc
Or Mushroom (court jester, pro rhaenyra) told details like the allegation Daemon slept with Alicient Hightower first.
You guys are like children learning WWE is scripted and can't shut up about it, you really think Rhae being fat is a Maesters lie???
Well the actress who plays older Alicent is stunning 🤩 The younger one was so pretty too
Simp😂
@@akachied4166 incel
@@akachied4166quit throwing the word simp around, admiring someone’s beauty isn’t being a whipping post. They *are gorgeous* younger and older versions fr.
@@akachied4166 stop acting like you NEVER expressed your attraction for someone before, everybody in the damn world have expressed their attraction for someone before in one way or another including your parents clearly because you were born
If Alicent didn’t have a weirdly big forehead, she would be much more pretty.
If Viserys wanted Rhaenera to be his heir, he shouldnt have married her best girl child friend and then have more heirs that were sons.
Yes but it was necessary from the standpoint of wanting to continue his bloodline no matter what. If Rhaenrya died and her line as well, he would need another way to secure his bloodlines succession. It was just the way of things, despite the obvious tension it created... and probably putting his succession in even more danger really, considering them being likely to go to war over it and kill all of each other.
No he should've publicly abdicated when he fell ill. Peacefully handed the throne to his daughter. That would've settled everything
He was a man and sotta knew how to get a way to mans heart
@@tatsuya.spriteWell, you can't have 3 sons and then say "anyway, my daughter will succeed me."
The man needs a woman, or do you want him to become a male nun??
Also it's important to have many children as a king to save your bloodline. You never know if a war or illness comes
Why did King Vaesyrs wed Alicent and allow Aegon to wed his sister, Helena. But then not allow Daemon to wed Rhaenyra? That doesn't make sense ...
He didnt want Daemon and Rhaenyra married bc He chose Rhaenyra as heir partly bc He didnt want Daemon to become heir and potentially take the throne. And by having them marry Daemon would end up as King if Rhaenyra become Queen. I think that was the reason
I think it was both that Aegon and haelena are half blooded also, haelena had a dragon that would grant another, house westeros more power if she married out , that's why jaehaerys 's, younger daughters who never claimed dragons were married out to other houses while Alyassa married into her family
then also to keep their blood line pure
Despite having a soft spot for his bro he always thought Daemon was an unserious fuck up.
@@richardjames5147 The biggest piece of the puzzle was Viserys knew that the crown was in a precarious position and desperately needed to sure up the throne with a strategic marriage.
Oh several reasons, first of all being that he probably didn't trust Daemon at all and Rhaenyra was supposed to be his heir. Second, he probably expected Rhaenyra to marry in a politically advantageous marriage
Alicent aged like wine and I love it❤ Both women are beautiful idc
It’s honestly all Laenor’s fault 😂
He didn't ask to marry her. Blame their parents for forcing them despite knowing the obvious issue.
@@propogandalfIt is his fault. They did not imply that he was infertile, they implied that there was no joy, hence they could’ve brought in a squire that Laenor liked then all three do the deed. When Laenor ejaculated, he does in Rheanyra.
A little creativity could’ve prevented a lot of death.
It Rhaenyra fault. She was given YEARS to found herself a husband. She could have had anyone she wanted. But instead she decided to be stupid and act like a brat. And she also followed Daemon in a brothel, which would have ruined her reputation if Otto didn't tell Viserys to prevent the news of reaching everyone. Which is why she was forced to marry Laenor. And it not like it was said that Laenor was infertile. All we know is that they both didn't like being intimate with each other. And Rhaenyra had her first kid like a year after they got married. So obviously they probably tried for like a month before deciding to explore other option. Because if Jace was born maybe 2 years after their wedding, then maybe we could have argue that Laenor was infertile. But even then, some people take years before becoming pregnant. And there no way for both of them to found that the other is infertile in less than a year. Even with modern technology it not 100% possible to say that someone is infertile. So back in the days, it would be unlikely. Especially after little time together.
@@tnlkb6115honestly her dad loved her enough to have let her marry harwin strong. i have no idea why she just didn't do that instead of making a mess of everything
@@pokemcnmaster For real. She could have had anyone she wanted. Anyone except Daemon since he was married at the time. But even then, it not like she never showed attention to other men. If she wanted to secure a powerful house allegiance, then she should have married one of their heirs. Or if she wanted to have an husband that would let her have all of the power, than a heir from a lower house should have been her best option. Or if she really wanted to marry for love or even even sex, than she should have chosen a handsome knight or something. (Since her type seem to be an handsome and strong kinght)
Basically, unlike 95% of the women in Westeros, Rhaenyra was given alot of chances and opportunity that even powerful men would envy. And instead of doing something productive and smart with it, she always put pleasure over duty.
And i know that her fans always say it sexist of people to expect her to do alot of thing just to secure her position just because she is a woman. Or that if she was a man, nobody would care of anything bad and stupid she did. But the thing is, Rhaenyra isn't just some woman. She the FIRST female royal heir in the targaryen house. And so because she is first, she need to prove herself. Just like Aegon the first had to prove himself to become king. It only natural.
As for her marriage with Laenor, if it really was about getting an heir asap and that Laenor couldn't deliver, then she should have chosen her lover to be someone from the velaryon house. For what we saw there is at least 2 other option of men of that house that could have help. Yes it nasty, but then again duty isn't suppose to always be easy to do.
There always the option of getting anyone with a darker complexion to help too. At least it would be easier to lie about their parentage even if the kids doesn't end up with white hairs. There also the option of having a threesome with Laenor and his lover and have him ejaculate inside her at the end. Basically, Rhaenyra had options if she had spend more than 5 minutes thinking about her duty. But she didn't.
And even if she had fucked up once and had Jace with Harwin, she should have change her partner and not continue to have 2 other children with the same man. That common sense. Don't expect anything different by making the same mistake over and over again.
In the books so many things are still assumptions... Even Martin is not giving any confirmation about some things
Because you can't compare the giving-birth from a normal human to the giving-birth of a dragon Rhaenyraaaaaaa you should have been proud
well without offending.... Alicent is the prettiest woman on the show as well.... The older version that is
I love the actriz. ❤
Olivia Cooke can definitely go face-to-face with Emma D'Arcy 😂 their facecard is just lethal
I think the younger Actress of Alicent is allready way prettier than Rheanyra, Emma D'arcy however, i wouldn't even consider her unconventionally attractive.
As someone who's attracted to women, No Alicent just looks okay. What I consider pretty is young Rachel McAdams, Hathaway, etc. At least D'Arcy makes me have a girl crush on her being Rhaenyra. Whereas Cooke.. Na. Ah. Sorry but just no
The comments here are proof that beauty really is subjective ❤
Really that’s what you over to bitterness towards her stepmother? I thought it was the fact that her best friend was sleeping with her father. And the relationship started while it was behind her back😏
Did crispy tell you that?
😂😂
Lol @@Agninethra-kb4fe
The feet bro, its all in the feet. Lol
Alicent is better looking in both the show and the books. Cope.
@@sanayalove9194 huh? What does your response have to do with my comment
Imagine your best friend marry your dad... 😅 Talk about yikes.. Friendship is ends when your BESTIE is your stepmom and having your half-siblings. Soooooo weird ..
Green Propaganda!!!
😂😂
The book is biased as hell. Like we don’t know exactly how “thick of waist” she was like whether or not she was truly overweight or if she just literally grew up & hot hips etc as they were popping out babies as teenagers like that’s kind of the beauty of fire and blood is there’s no reliable narrators, but they all agree. She was “thick of waist “but we don’t know what that means to the various narrators so we have to draw our own conclusion 🤷🏻♀️.
But i mean Alicent was also a monster and started rumors of Rhaenyra being a whore when she was 12/13. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg of stuff her and the greens did.
I really hope they change the ending of the TV series. Rhaenyra is the true dragon, FUCK the Hightower
“She became Stout and thick of waist” 😂😭 yo I’m definitely using this from now on 😂
It's because Rhaenyra didn't have to use her body to win a war🖤❤️🔥
Even her uncle? Well we know about that family lol
Also hadd to the fact alison had an eating disorder and rarely ate only when her handmaidens raised concerns to ether jayhears or otto
Alicent probably followed the Hightower diet, despite not living in the High Tower I suppose LOL 🤣 Can't be fat there.
In the books they have huge age gap so I can understand a kid wanting to be as an adult they see, they were not friends its more Snowhite and Evil step mother
Of course the maesters writing the victor's history books would make two of the most powerful women in Westerosi history seem like petty and vain.
They were writte by People directly from Rheanyras Lingeage. She is the Mother of the Victors Side. Anyone thought that she was written as a cruel Idiot because ... she is a cruel Idiot, and not sexism.
@@Nimbus-qn5pyIt was written by the maesters of old town. Which I might remind you, is THE SEAT OF THE HIGHTOWERS. It wasn't written by the Targeryeans themselves. You think the royal family didn't have anything better to than legging it to the citadel to fact check books?
Not mention it was G.R.R Martin himself who said the book was baised against Raehynera. Or do you think you know more than the writer himself?
@@zodiac5403 make your own fantasy if u want grrm never said that. And rhaenyra was always voluptuous girl at 14 years and when she became older she naturally gained more fat after all the pregnancies, even aegon and haeleana were fat. Not everything is a conspiracy by maesters or hightower if that was the case then each and every history book written by the maester should not be believed.
Not entirely true. The books is not an objective pov but the show is VERY different from the books and not because it is the “actual” story but because they are writing a different story where the women are trying to do the right thing but the males are BAD and patriarchy is “controlling” them. In the books instead rhaenyra and alicent were way more complex with each having their own lust for power and the side characters were more iconic in their own way. Criston Cole and daemon Targaryen especially. If you want an example rhaenys hair should be black which is a big plot point in the books because it doesn’t make rhaenyra children 100% surely bastards.
cuz they we're clearly misogynistic right gosh😂😂
I'm glad the books explain how pregnancy affects each body differently
It's odd how the Maesters of the Citadel seem to always criticize the ship out of Rhaenyra. Wait, where are they based out of again? Ah yes, Oldtown, where the Hightowers are from.
“Don’t you ever get fat or no one will love you” some sh-< an aunt of mine endured
Yes Rhaenyra is through all bunch of toxic misogynistic and because of that the most fascinating character ❤
No boy, it was the other way around. Alicent was always jelous of Rhae
Did you know that The Book you're talking about is written in pov of the Maester who supported The Greens and hated Blacks to death? 😂
Did you know the show is directed by someone who hates the green and clearly is not very good at maths since alicent is 9 years older and her fourth son and rhaenyra eldest are the same age😂.
@ratikantrout1865 this is crazily inaccurate. Sympathetic greens everywhr . Pple can actually relate to them. If the actually casted the greens the way they were portrayed , everybody will hate them from beginning to end.
@@linakerr9856 what's wrong with that? Portray them as vile as they are in the book. That's what I like about the dance the first time I read it. I didn't choose a side because it is a familial dispute between siblings and how they destroyed their house dragons the symbol of their power.we are not supposed to root for the leaders.
@ratikantrout1865 well, the way I see it pple aren't born evil, they have to show us how they got to the point as they were written in the books , also when you think about how the books were written you'd get to understand dat not everything is correct in the books, none of des characters have any pov, yet these maesters write as if they are in der heads, den u have mushroom dat embellishes his own tales , . We can just conclude that most of what was written were lies or exaggerated tales.
I love how everyone is blaming the in universe authors for this kind of thing and talking about how time and politics and perspectives can be skewed.....completely forgetting that GRRM wrote the books.
Yes he wrote it, and he was also the one who declared the books canonically has unreliable narration. GRRM probably thinks fans would fight over it, interpreting this and that. Wouldn't that be a clever way to hype up his books?
kind of similar to the writings of roman emperors. For a while, we took the writing as absolute but soon realised that some information was bias and was written 100s of years after said events .
@@kelseylogas1580 are you good, pookie? GRRM wrote this story from unreliable point of views and he’s been very open abt that🙃🙃sooooo….what’s good?can you read??
Maegor with T...
But , In the show Rhaenyra is more beautiful than Alicent. 😂
hell nah the actress that plays alicent is gorgeous im both iterations btw
This is sarcasm right? 😂
@@jithinraj1830 me when I lie
I’m using that now when I slide off my diet I’m getting “thick of waist” 🤣🤣🤣
"Even her uncle" pfffft. Like being related ever stopped Targaryans
Team black all the way. Danys ancestors 😅
The greens are daenarys ancestors too
@@MrMinevision1Not exactly. While Alicent's child were Targaryens, Daenerys and Jon both came from Rhaenyra's line from her son Viserys with Daemon. Alicent's side died out when her granddaughter died without children.
@@jedimasters1462 You're comment whilst speaking factual information is false when it said "not exactly". If Viserys Targaryen is Daenarys Ancestor. Then all of his children are also her ancestors.... Basic Logic that a lot of people are refusing to acknowledge.
@@MrMinevision1 While the greens are of Viserys's line, Daenerys comes from Rhaenyra's line. All of Old Valyria are ancestors to Daenerys and House Targaryen, yet they are not the line she comes from directly.
@jedimasters1462 Okay. Nice information idk what the point of it is tho. The greens are Daenarys Ancestors.
Green propaganda, we all know who envy and jealous of who, who crazy enough to steal the crown and also being crybaby because viserys will also chose rhae
I think the account user having a issue with rehenreya.
She had a dragon tho😭 she owns Alicent
Raneyra is beautiful
She had obvious severe eating disorder especially during the war. I thought the show would hint that but maybe later.
Very captivating film
Alicent is gorgeous.
I have a question, Aegon the younger was Rheanyras Son, so who thinks anybody would portray the Mother of the ruling monarch as a fat and later cruel Idiot when that was not who she was.
I read that rhaenyra only gained weights because of childbirth?
These things are written and accounted AFTER the reign is over
@@MrMinevision1 yess, but her lineage was the one that survived, but she was still portrayed as a cruel idiot. Not because of how history is written by the winners. But because, she was!
@@Nimbus-qn5pyOr because Aegon was a traumatized child that was too scared to argue much. After all, he has witnessed his uncle feed his mother to the man's dragon and probably felt like he had to agree to everything just to protect himself. Remember, he was a small child when the Dance ended and he believed then that his entire family was dead. Then, when the book was written and made available, he probably was brainwashed into believing that his mother was like that. That happens a lot in wars.
@Nimbus-qn5py well icl to you. I feel sorry for Rhaenyra more than anything. She is stupid. And I do believe the greens are in the right. But it's one of those situations where its the parents fault. The terrible and arguably worst King FOR the targaryen dynasty Viserys
Rhaenyra loved her lemon cakes
Almost everybody in the books was a little "thick of waist." Aegon, Helaena, Rhaenyra, even Viserys.
The show is so biased towards Team Black that it doesn’t even want to stick to canon when it comes to its main character because apparently it’s mYsOgIniStIc if Rhaenyra isn’t perfect in everything 💀
The show is biased towards both teams let be real. They made the Greens more sympathetic in the show compared to the books by making this whole war mostly based on a miscommunication instead pure greed.
@@doomb1ke yes,They made a lot of changes for the green team
So u want the books that are clearly biased towards the greens? At least the show stands in the middle. Changes were made to both teams. I don't see anyone complaining that aegon isn't fat 🤷 or that haelena isn't fat or viserys . It's only rhaenyras, and you'd hear pple saying the show is biased.... look how sympathetic the greens are in the show.
In the books the greens had zero justification. Alicent has been made into this whole victim while in the books she was literally the main villain not some young girl married at 14-15. Otto's removal as hand had nothing to do with Rhaenyra sleeping with Crispy, it happened because he continuously asked for her to be removed as heir. Aemond was literally just a psycho and the whole losing his eyes was even more his own fault. Aegon was honestly just as he is in the show. And Halaena wasn't some dragon dreamer. When the proposal was sent to Rhaenyra to make her give up her claim she supported it. And Daeron is not some handsome gentleman, he literally burned cities as did Aemond. Honestly you green fans are so hypocritical. You talk about how the show is in Black's favour when it literally isn't (confirming Rhaenyra's sons as bastards, making Velaryons blacks, Rhaenyra sleeping with Crispy, Luke's death being some accident). The show literally makes the Greens so 'sympahetic'. Like honestly, if the book was properly adapted there would be no green fans.
Alicent is really so beautiful
They cast the wrong “older” Rheanyra then cuz I find her extremely attractive. She has a very unique look and beam with grace
Thank god they kept her hot in the show
Greenish propaganda 😂
Tbf the books were written by either a pro green Septon or a dwarf so it could be propaganda.
😂😂😂😂 thats right
😂
It’s not propaganda it’s written in the books. George himself wrote this stuff up and he himself favors the blacks. Yall just can’t handle anything that puts the greens in better light because the show is so proudly biased towards the blacks by making the blacks better on the show and the greens worse on the show. The show is propaganda.
Everything is a propaganda maegor the cruel was the virtuous king and since he went against the faith he was painted as a monster.
Alicent also did it younger.. being young probably has something to do with how well you bounce back, alicent got the jump on nrya by a few years
It’s because Rheanyra kept eating
The show did a good job. Going from Milly Alcock to Emma d'arcy is very noticeable.😂
So body Shaming also exists in ASOIAF.😂
George RR Martin bringing the hypocrisy of the world to the spotlight in his books
Alicent beauty >> Rhaenyra beauty
So book Rhaenyra has GYATT
does the show, show us alicents 4th child ?
Don't recall this jealousy in the books. Guess I should read it again
It’s not in the book 🙄 whoever made this video is full of shiiit
Yeah, in the book, but in real life, these actors and actresses are not living up to the book
Lmao how to know this content was made by man 101 right here😂
Alicent was in shape because she had to use her looks to get what she wanted and she did(for what people think it's her brain). Rhaenyra was stout because she never cared for looks, valued brains and was using them during her time.
Hmm 🤔 I'm only talking about the show, I haven't read the books yet, but Tbh I think show Rhaenyra was more on the dumb side regarding politics, she made mistake after mistake politically-wise, and acted purely on her desires and personal interests every time... She definitely wasn't using brains during her time 😅 (in the show at least)
Used her brains? When? When she couldn’t even care to employ basic manners and instead kept alienating potential allies, such as Lannisters that could have been secured as early as during Aegon’s childhood? Or maybe when instead of gaining influence and putting her people in the council using the favor that she had with Viserys to counter the Greens’ power she kept having fun with Harwin? She made no effort of learning how politics work, building her PR among the people and the realm so that being the first female monarch would go more smoothly, especially in the face of all the propaganda about male primogeniture, was bad at military strategy and managed to do badly against the Greens in the Dance while having twice as many dragons. Even dragons couldn’t save her, bro. That’s doesn’t indicate to me that brains were her strong side
The young rhynera was so mutch better
Who said this? Mushroom? lmao
You can't use "in the books this and that" for that specific book. That book is a history collection and collection of stories from questionable people.
To be fair, even in the show Alicent is way more prettier than Rhaenyra.
Then there’s Crazy Crispy Cole... he couldn’t settle with the Princess, so he landed her stepmother Queen. XD Does it really matter who was more “beautiful” at this rate, when men are willing to go that dragonsh!t over it??
Rhae wasn’t jealous the fake green queen was had to marry her father had to take her old lover steal her crown
Oh so she was also ugly in the books, that explains a lot...
Tf didn’t u do the whole thing in rhyme for?!
In young age show showed rhenera average and gorgeous to alicent...and after marriage they just reversed
Some fat is great for health and children bearing. Skinny women are weaker, more barren, and more prone to death during child birth
So she was bitter due to the post baby weight. That's what started the whole dance of the dragons? Post partum depression?? Wow.🤔😕
Rhanerya was human. It happens. She also had a large boosoom ;)
Emily Carey is the most beautiful actress in the show fingers crossed
They should hate kiss about it
Thick of waste? I don’t think many people realize how good the women’s body look after they have children, of course, if they engage in intense physical activities. Havre meet women mother of 6 children. One of THE BEST 6 pack I ever seen and she still keep a good looking body until today. But
Well the books called her heavy but they’re supposed to be biased and have an unreliable narrator
Several Fire and Blood characters were "stout and thick of waist" lol. (And much worse, for several of them. Viserys in the book was outright fat and his children tended to be bigger as well.)
It seems it's only really brought up about Rhaenyra, though. I wonder why? *shrug*
Always making it about looks with women 🙄
The winner writes the history, and tbh, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the maesters and other writers wrote this in because of course women are going to be jealous of looks and weight of other women (sarcasm), and this of course leads to resentment and bitterness. I don’t think this is accurate to reality, but more a way for the in universe writers to add a bit of sexism to explain that Rhaenyra is just another irrational woman, jealous that Alicent is prettier than her, which delegitimizes her actual issues with Alicent.
Lies of the greens
They cast the wrong actress for young Rhaenyra then 😂
okay mr no photo himself
Nah but I'd say they both resented each other why else did alicent take criston cole as her protector instead of letting him be arrested for his crimes to spurn rhaenyra and alicent was the one who was competing with her stepdaughter and jealous of her tbh she was crazy obsessed with her power and wanted it for herself to be number 1 queen you coming out later on we talking before all that alicent was the one jealous team black
Of course a male writer would do that.
why couldn't they find a beautiful actress for Rhaenyra then?
EXACTLY!!!!!
What are you talking about! She is so pretty
@@emmym.1524 she is not ugly, she has some nice features, but she is definitely Not the second most Beautiful or whatever. I m not trying to be mean, just as real as i can.
Who the young Rhaenyra that was played by Milly Alcock? I thought she was beautiful. The older one played by Emma Darcy is bigger as she’s older, more mature however definitely not “stout and thick of waist”. In fact she looks like she is in great shape. She isn’t as pretty as Milly; so I assume HBO used this as a means of the comparison. Now contrary, I feel with Alicent the opposite is true. Older Alicent (Olivia Cooke) is slender, graceful, as well as more beautiful than her younger counterpart (still pretty, but growing still so she has a more youthful cute look to her. Anyway despite mixed opinions etc…. Team Black all the way!!!!🎉😊❤❤
Blondes have more fun!
This vid is hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I keep finding it weird how people like Sansa, Dani, Rhaenyra etc. are supposed to be incredibly beautifull, but in the show they are pretty much your average woman with make up on.
And in cases like Rhaenyra, maybe even less then that. It's the reason I tend to like animation better for adaptions, because you have a lot more options to actually get to picture what the writer is trying to depict.
sansa, dany and rhaenyra are all gorgeous 😭. especially emma darcy who plays rhaenyra- they’re fucking hot
U have next level standards.. Rhaenyra, Dani and Sansa are indeed very beautiful
@@muhammadalam3794 I was going to say the same thing... Beauty is a matter of opinion, taste and social standards, but you truly seem to have a very limited perspective. In my opinion, most of the actresses are very pretty, but the actresses of Rhaenyra are some of the most beautiful women I have ever seen.
wtf are u talking about?? DANI and SANSA from the show were the most stunning women there.... Jealous much
Well with your preferences something tells me you are an adolescent at least at mind development level...
These maesters writing gossip and stereotypical girl stuff when it comes to recording history of female royals sound kinda pathetic it sounds like conjecture like how does a maester know rhaenyra is jealous of alicent's looks, either gossip or he made it up
Ah she's a queen a woman so obviously she hates the other women for looks not serious political and personal issues
Not saying that women don't do that Cersei definitely would but this case sounds a bit gossipy and fake
Imagine what maesters will record about Daenerys after her death I'm sure they won't be kind even if she doesn't go the mad queen route
I mean in F&B, Viserys is shown as quite rotund and obviously in the show he is not
Ayo? Green propaganda?
Didn't make sense
Not true on the envy part
😂😂😂😂
Bore who children?