It was at this point Ben started losing any control he may have still had. Even before the reveal that this wasn’t Locke, he was clearly different. The real Locke couldn’t usually comprehend the circumstances. Mad props to Terry O’Quinn for playing two different people so well!
what if the twist was that john locke was the smoke monster all along, like the real john locke died on the plane and the smoke monster assumed his identity from day 1 on the island.
Frankly, they did this type of needless/pointless "death" to a lot of them. Locke, Charlie, Boone, Alex, Rousseau et al. They built up the character, gave traction and impetus to their development and then just cut the strings. LOST was the King of meaningless deaths or at least seemingly meaningless. Charlie died believing he was getting Claire rescued off the Island. THIS did NOT happen. Boone died believing he was radioing for help, but he was actually talking to Bernard and the tail section survivors. Libby was supposed to be some part of Hugo's arc, but then was summarily killed off. Illana was supposed to have some significant role and she just blew up. Charlotte's entire job was to just die (showing HOW dangerous time travel is/would be). Some would argue that Locke's death was part of the LONG CON that Jacob had put in place to make the Smoke Monster (which somehow carries his deceased brother's desire to leave the Island, his disdain for humanity, and an intense hatred for Jacob (likely born from Jacob beating, causing what should be a fatal blow to MiB's head, and sending MiB into the heart of the Island) think it's winning. This somehow supposedly assigns value and purpose to Locke's death. That would mean that Jacob resurrecting Locke after what should have been a fatal fall from 8 stories and then somehow restoring John's ability to walk (or getting the Island to do this) was all a sham to make Locke seem special and a prime candidate for Smokey to use as the Loophole. I still think that it was a disservice to such a great complex and sympathetic character like Locke to have him go out that way.
The writers made the choice that he wasn't actually special, and was just a dupe and a gullible sucker, and died in a shitty hotel room with no redemption arc. Shitty ass on-the-fly writing. They had nothin'.
This is the best point in the whole show MIB's loophole A fantastic scenario that is being revealed and every spectator is left with open mouth!!! MIB needed Locke to die, so he told him that he had to die while he already knew that he is dead because he is in his body! That time spin let him play his own plan Magnificent
petrosp13 what I don't understand is how Ben Linus can be watching this when he killed Locke off the island before coming back to it. I know how Ben came back and all but how can he be watching this while Locke is still alive?
Ben moves Island and flashes begin. In the first or second flash Ethan shoots Locke. Then flash, the Beechcraft is on the ground. Richard comes to Locke to take out the bullet. I understand MIB/Locke, Richard and Ben are now in 2007, but it was one of the first few flashes that this scene here happened. I think it's understanding time that's messing with me.
Don't forget that the facts you are mentioning are Locke's present. MIB was present at these flashes of Locke in order to persuade him that he is special, to persuade him to bring everyone back, to persuade him to die. Locke was convinced, he convinced Richard that he was special and the leader and the facts led one to another. Locke died, they brought his body back, MIB took his body, Richard didn't know Locke was MIB, he was convinced that he was the leader (so did Ben), they led him to Jacob, and after one season of manipulation of Ben by MIB, Jacob died. True masterpiece
@CosmicUndeadElf When smokey becomes a person who has died, he incorporates every memory of that person. "Do you wanna know what he was thinking when you chocked the life out of his Benjamin? What the last thought that ran through his head was?" Infact I would say when he spends a long enough time being that person, he begins to think that he is them. "This remind you of anything Jack? If there was a button down there to push, we could fight about whether not to push it. Be just like old times
Rude666 I feel. But this is all part of MiB’s plan to confuse and manipulate the survivors. Tormenting them as if he really is John. Quite evil I may say
MiB did need them but he didnt need them to leave he needed them dead so there was no one left who could stop him from leaving. Its a bit ambiguous as to whether the light needed to be out for him to leave but I assume it didnt, but when it went out it cancelled out any power the island or Jacob/Jack had over keeping him there.
The loophole wasn't ben or john locke, all they did was exchange words - the real loophole catalyst was the compass, because there is no true origin, MiB caught the compass in the loop of time etc etc
Exactly! I've actually been thinking about doing a video on this. The time traveling compass. It's caught in a time loop. It's never been created or destroyed, yet it still exists!
this episode reveal where the idea of "we have to go back" came from: The Monster. Well they have to come back because they have flawed and they're sad in their life before the crash of the plane and going to civilisation again don't change that. We are all agree with that. But hey, MIB was the one who manipulate them all.
Meanwhile, Jacob was manipulating MiB. He knew that he had to let MiB’s plan come to fruition, die, then MiB would turn off the light, not knowing he would become mortal, and the remaining candidates would kill MiB. His plan overarched and encompassed MiB’s.
Any time anyone criticizes LOST, I feel like punching them and saying "You do NOT disparage the great work of Terry O'Quinn!" And Michael Emerson and Elizabeth Mitchell and Nestor Carbonell and Henry Ian Cusick and...
If I’d been one of the 815 survivors and I had heard about the Beechcraft and the gargantuan stash of pure heroin onboard I would have spent the rest of my life on that Island higher than anyone has ever been before. 😍😍😍😍
This actually an impossible situation. The MIB needed Locke to leave, die off island, and have his corpse brought back. In this scene, the MIB has already assumed Locke’s identity and does not need to tell John he needs to die because he’s already taken Locke’s identity. The MIB as Locke cannot be the originator of the idea that John needs to die. There would be no need to originate that idea because he is already the thing the idea was meant to create.
Smokey had read Locks mind earlier in series 2 i think- plus numerous other people alive and dead for 1000s of years. He also had the knowledge of being part of the island -'so he made all the events to get locke back to the island.
He had to keep things in order I imagine like the timeline had to stay the same. His plan would fail if Locke never left the island, because then Ben wouldn’t kill him and his body would never return to the island. Mib was playing games with everyone from the beginning. All part of his plan
I'm just rewatching Lost and what i still don't get is the following: This scene takes place in the current present (2007). But it also took place in 2004 since it happened the last time Richard saw John and before he left the island 3 years ago. Richard even tells John that it has been 3 years. How can the same scene happen 2004 and 2007. What am I missing or what do I get wrong? :(
Erik Pötzsch basically when John is shot there is another flash that takes him to the future. This makes it 2007. Richard then sees John and gives him the compass after the real John from 2007 tells him too. Because of the flashes two John's existed in this one time
Erik Pötzsch I think when Richard said about the last time he saw John it was when Ben moved the island so John met Richard and the others and then just disappeared
@@pay2playwin4free27 the real locke doesn't know WHEN he was when this happened to him. I think he was just realizing that he was travelling through time.
![LOST: "The Bottle and the Cork" [6x09-Ab Aeterno]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WwhtDXZc62s/mqdefault.jpg)
In the brief moment when we thought this was actually Locke, it was so satisfying to see him constantly having the upper hand on Ben!
It was at this point Ben started losing any control he may have still had. Even before the reveal that this wasn’t Locke, he was clearly different. The real Locke couldn’t usually comprehend the circumstances. Mad props to Terry O’Quinn for playing two different people so well!
what if the twist was that john locke was the smoke monster all along, like the real john locke died on the plane and the smoke monster assumed his identity from day 1 on the island.
@@SuCKeRPunCH187 If it were true he wouldn't act like Locke when he was alone
@@SirTrig i'm just saying what if?
@@SuCKeRPunCH187 and I'm just providing my response
@@SuCKeRPunCH187 but John Locke leaved the island so.... I don't think so
I hated this moment, I hated Locke dying and mib taking his form. It was just unfair for his character
My thoughts exactly. I wished he would be the next Jacob.
done him AND sayid dirty
Don't talk to me ABOUT FAIR..
Frankly, they did this type of needless/pointless "death" to a lot of them. Locke, Charlie, Boone, Alex, Rousseau et al. They built up the character, gave traction and impetus to their development and then just cut the strings. LOST was the King of meaningless deaths or at least seemingly meaningless.
Charlie died believing he was getting Claire rescued off the Island. THIS did NOT happen. Boone died believing he was radioing for help, but he was actually talking to Bernard and the tail section survivors. Libby was supposed to be some part of Hugo's arc, but then was summarily killed off. Illana was supposed to have some significant role and she just blew up. Charlotte's entire job was to just die (showing HOW dangerous time travel is/would be).
Some would argue that Locke's death was part of the LONG CON that Jacob had put in place to make the Smoke Monster (which somehow carries his deceased brother's desire to leave the Island, his disdain for humanity, and an intense hatred for Jacob (likely born from Jacob beating, causing what should be a fatal blow to MiB's head, and sending MiB into the heart of the Island) think it's winning. This somehow supposedly assigns value and purpose to Locke's death. That would mean that Jacob resurrecting Locke after what should have been a fatal fall from 8 stories and then somehow restoring John's ability to walk (or getting the Island to do this) was all a sham to make Locke seem special and a prime candidate for Smokey to use as the Loophole.
I still think that it was a disservice to such a great complex and sympathetic character like Locke to have him go out that way.
The writers made the choice that he wasn't actually special, and was just a dupe and a gullible sucker, and died in a shitty hotel room with no redemption arc.
Shitty ass on-the-fly writing. They had nothin'.
I realy missed the real Locke in season 6
Real Locke was weak person, this version is better and smarter!
@@artembaranov this one was evil. Old Locke was cool.
@@kbanghart Real Locke was an amazing, tragic character. One of the best TV characters of all time.
@@artembaranov MiB and Jacob were both terrible. Really wish the writers could have thought up something better than Beavis and Butthead.
@@WesleyWyndam-Pryce lol you thought they were as shallow as Beavis and Butthead?
@DrDareable No, he said "the Island told me" because that's sounds like something Locke would say, and he was pretending to be Locke......
This is the best point in the whole show
MIB's loophole
A fantastic scenario that is being revealed and every spectator is left with open mouth!!!
MIB needed Locke to die, so he told him that he had to die while he already knew that he is dead because he is in his body!
That time spin let him play his own plan
Magnificent
petrosp13 what I don't understand is how Ben Linus can be watching this when he killed Locke off the island before coming back to it. I know how Ben came back and all but how can he be watching this while Locke is still alive?
Which Locke do you mean?
petrosp13 The Locke that got shot in the leg. I understand the other Locke is MIB.
Ben moves Island and flashes begin. In the first or second flash Ethan shoots Locke. Then flash, the Beechcraft is on the ground. Richard comes to Locke to take out the bullet.
I understand MIB/Locke, Richard and Ben are now in 2007, but it was one of the first few flashes that this scene here happened. I think it's understanding time that's messing with me.
Don't forget that the facts you are mentioning are Locke's present. MIB was present at these flashes of Locke in order to persuade him that he is special, to persuade him to bring everyone back, to persuade him to die. Locke was convinced, he convinced Richard that he was special and the leader and the facts led one to another. Locke died, they brought his body back, MIB took his body, Richard didn't know Locke was MIB, he was convinced that he was the leader (so did Ben), they led him to Jacob, and after one season of manipulation of Ben by MIB, Jacob died. True masterpiece
@CosmicUndeadElf When smokey becomes a person who has died, he incorporates every memory of that person. "Do you wanna know what he was thinking when you chocked the life out of his Benjamin? What the last thought that ran through his head was?"
Infact I would say when he spends a long enough time being that person, he begins to think that he is them.
"This remind you of anything Jack? If there was a button down there to push, we could fight about whether not to push it. Be just like old times
Rude666 I feel. But this is all part of MiB’s plan to confuse and manipulate the survivors. Tormenting them as if he really is John. Quite evil I may say
it's amazing to understand that to bring the Oceanic Six back home was Mib, just in order to be able to kill 'em and leave the island
Gianluca Auriemma That is pretty crazy, it wasnt the island that needed them but MIB
Nah, island (well, Jacob ) also needed them to stop MiB and protect the heart of the island aka the Light
Jacob needed them the island needed them they were candidates and they left, so they have to get back to protect the island cause they’re chosen
MiB did need them but he didnt need them to leave he needed them dead so there was no one left who could stop him from leaving. Its a bit ambiguous as to whether the light needed to be out for him to leave but I assume it didnt, but when it went out it cancelled out any power the island or Jacob/Jack had over keeping him there.
Man, I miss Lost
The loophole wasn't ben or john locke, all they did was exchange words - the real loophole catalyst was the compass, because there is no true origin, MiB caught the compass in the loop of time etc etc
god i love lost
IAmRedherrings how is MIB possessing Locke's body here when Locke hasn't died yet?
He died. The wounded Locke's present is before his death
Exactly! I've actually been thinking about doing a video on this. The time traveling compass. It's caught in a time loop. It's never been created or destroyed, yet it still exists!
@@BrandonHanna Because presumably, there was a timeline (Probably the first) In which the loop itself was created by somebody traveling back.
Fuck do I ever miss this show!!
@CosmicUndeadElf As a great man once said "I was wrong!"
I hope Terry O'Quinn won a few Emmys for all the great work he did on this show.
this episode reveal where the idea of "we have to go back" came from:
The Monster.
Well they have to come back because they have flawed and they're sad in their life before the crash of the plane and going to civilisation again don't change that. We are all agree with that.
But hey, MIB was the one who manipulate them all.
Yeah, he also ensured their initial survival by leading Jack to water and the caves.
YodatheHobbit no he didn’t, all he wanted was to kill them if you don’t remember jack almost died if it wasn’t for Locke.
Backfired on the Monster though.
Meanwhile, Jacob was manipulating MiB. He knew that he had to let MiB’s plan come to fruition, die, then MiB would turn off the light, not knowing he would become mortal, and the remaining candidates would kill MiB. His plan overarched and encompassed MiB’s.
No no wait! Tell him to get some liquor too!
actually the loophole was Benjamin Linus.
Any time anyone criticizes LOST, I feel like punching them and saying "You do NOT disparage the great work of Terry O'Quinn!" And Michael Emerson and Elizabeth Mitchell and Nestor Carbonell and Henry Ian Cusick and...
One of best.
oh wait the island told him
Well, that's Smokie/Mr.X, and he knows pretty much everything.
@2:44
If you catch it Flocke says "He, gave Richard his compass back". He accidentally lets it slip that that's not him.
It would have been a great little hint but I think he said "to give Richard his compass back".
@@jxsh03 oh, maybe i misheard then.
@@desmondbrown5508 nope you were right ,i hear it to
Great scene
Amazing scene from an amazing show.
If I’d been one of the 815 survivors and I had heard about the Beechcraft and the gargantuan stash of pure heroin onboard I would have spent the rest of my life on that Island higher than anyone has ever been before. 😍😍😍😍
Mr Ecko would probably kill you for desecrating his brothers resting place
Too bad it's Heroin, that would be extremely boring being High like that on this Island. I'd rather it be cocaine.
When you eventually run out , cause you will . The withdrawals will be horrific - unless your smart and don’t do it everyday 👍🏼. Believe me
Because of the curative efects of the island maybe is harder to overdose. Who knows... Sounds like a worthy dharma initatitve experiment to do...
and...thats the last time u will see real locke in this season.
This actually an impossible situation. The MIB needed Locke to leave, die off island, and have his corpse brought back. In this scene, the MIB has already assumed Locke’s identity and does not need to tell John he needs to die because he’s already taken Locke’s identity. The MIB as Locke cannot be the originator of the idea that John needs to die. There would be no need to originate that idea because he is already the thing the idea was meant to create.
He knew he had to fulfill history. Mib was the one sending them through time and he came back around on the other side to fulfill his plans.
Smokey had read Locks mind earlier in series 2 i think- plus numerous other people alive and dead for 1000s of years. He also had the knowledge of being part of the island -'so he made all the events to get locke back to the island.
He had to keep things in order I imagine like the timeline had to stay the same. His plan would fail if Locke never left the island, because then Ben wouldn’t kill him and his body would never return to the island. Mib was playing games with everyone from the beginning. All part of his plan
I can imagine hOW FRUSTRATED bEN WAS.
Ben got rekt at 2:27!
Did MiB, Ben and Richard time travel for this to happen?
No. Locke time travelled to 2007
The scary part is he convinced them he was the real Locke because mib has lockes memories.. that’s messed up.
You’ve never seen him have you?
-Jacob disguised as Locke
I'm just rewatching Lost and what i still don't get is the following:
This scene takes place in the current present (2007). But it also took place in 2004 since it happened the last time Richard saw John and before he left the island 3 years ago. Richard even tells John that it has been 3 years. How can the same scene happen 2004 and 2007. What am I missing or what do I get wrong? :(
Erik Pötzsch basically when John is shot there is another flash that takes him to the future. This makes it 2007. Richard then sees John and gives him the compass after the real John from 2007 tells him too. Because of the flashes two John's existed in this one time
Actually wait re reading your comment I'm lost too now
Erik Pötzsch I think when Richard said about the last time he saw John it was when Ben moved the island so John met Richard and the others and then just disappeared
@@DG-um3xi No because that is not John Locke it's the Monster.
This is a plot hole for sure.
“Me.”
He is not Locke 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Is the future Locke MIB?
Yes.
That one who's watching was MiB or Locke?
The man in black killed the real John Locke
No I thought Ben choked him to death on Civilization on MIB/Locke's coersion
No, Ben did that, the man in black possesed his body when they arrived on the island
😂i fucking love it
This was a paradox, how did MIB know about Locke?
when he use someones body he get their memories
He was the one sending them through time with his time wheel
He had scanned Lockes mind in season 1 in the episode 'walk about' . He was using the time wheel to manipulate bringing him back.
He has his memories one of mib abilities, he retains the memories of people he impersonates. Smokey can scan people’s memories/minds
Incredibile how the real Locke was wrong about everything during his whole life.
He wasn't wrong about the island.
So if that wasn't really Locke. How the heck did he know the real Locke was gonna be there?
@theshakl
because when he takes the form of a dead person, he has his/her memories aswell.
@@nixiontm How could the real Locke know when he was at this moment?
@@pay2playwin4free27 the real locke doesn't know WHEN he was when this happened to him. I think he was just realizing that he was travelling through time.