The thing about Capaldi is that he's 110% intense in every scene, no matter how simple or casual that scene might be. He could be asking for a glass of water and he'll do it as if he was onstage at the Globe Theater performing Othello. It works really well for the Doctor because it simultaneously makes him seem very impressive while also making him seem super weird and ill-fitting in a casual human setting.
You've hit the nail on the head about Capaldi's consistent intensity and "super weirdness", qualities that Tom Baker had in abundance. I guess that's one of the reasons why Tom and Peter are my #1 and #2 Doctors of all time.
@@thedoctorgeneric5007 McCoy came across as pretty feeble with the weak scripts he got in his first run, but both he and the writing improved in subsequent series.
I wish more people would've gotten from Clara's conversation with her grandmother that she was in shock. She has that dead look in her eyes, she's barely coherent, granny said she hasn't even cried. So her completely illogical "plan" wasn't so much a plan, it was someone not in their right mind lashing out in despair. It's not portrayed as a calculated attempt to get what she wants, more like a manifestation of some trauma-induced delusion that she can take control of life and death. After she throws all the keys in the volcano, when she looks increasingly horrified and gasps "what have I done?" it's like she's snapping out of a trance. Idk man I personally love that whole volcano/tardis sequence. It deals with a lot of complex and deeply *human* shit in a short amount of time, with great dialogue and standout performances from both actors.
By saying that Clara was a "mess of chemicals", I think the Doctor was referring to her chemistry being out of whack due to her grief at Danny's loss, not writing off all love as a purely chemical state.
The performances from Peter and Jenna in the dream state (anger, pain, desperation) then back in the Tardis (vulnerability, hurt, love) are outstanding. Peter and Jenna are really the best actor and actress to have played a Doctor and a companion and they deserve all the praise. The Tardis scene also contains two of my top favorite lines from 12: "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference" and "Let's see what we are made of, you and I." They summarize perfectly why 12/Clara are so special together. Sure, other Doctors flirted with their companions, but 12's bond with Clara seems so much deeper and stronger. There is an element of unconditional devotion that is undeniable. And it continues to be developed (and, in fact, becomes the main arc) next season. I can't wait.
Agree. Not only do I think they're the best actors to ever inhabit their particular roles, but I think they elevate one another, which the best actors do. The great actors bring out the best in others they perform with, and I think they do that with one another. Part of it is actor chemistry: their chemistry is off the chart; part of it is pure skill. Whatever someone thinks of the 12th Doctor or Clara, as actors they are exemplary.
It all becomes fucked up when you realize the whole thing was planned by Missy. She saw the bond that the doctor had with other versions of Clara so she got them together. And they formed a bond so strong that the doctor was forced to forget Clara because he was becoming a threat to reality itself just to protect her.
_The Invasion_ is easily one of my favourite Doctor Who stories. First appearance of UNIT, Kevin Stoney as the villain, and Don Harper's amazing soundtrack... what's not to love?
I laughed hard when Calvin recognised the Cyberman eyes in the door -"Ahhhh, that's great!" And Shane's silent while Eric's just nodding calmly like, "Yes, yes... of course..." until Calvin has to actually say, "Cybermen...!" out loud for the revelation to finally hit them!
The cybermen walking down the steps is also a call back to a storyline with, I think the second doctor, when the Cybermen invaded Earth and the scene is an exact match.
Missy’s reveal, PE dies, Cybermen. This episode has it all really. Easily one of the best episodes of the season, one of the best episodes of Capaldi's era, and one of the best cliffhangers out of the whole Moffat era. I did think 'Death in Heaven' was slightly less good, but still a solid two-parter overall. Also, one of Capaldi's best lines: "Do you seriously think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
The thing I love about this finale, is how it pays-off everything that they've building this season. You can see now why Danny is so protective with the kids. You can see how this Doctor is more empathic than he likes to show. His reaction towards Clara is almost like his reaction towards the Teller, who had killed for the protection of a loved one. He is understanding, because he knows how grief can mess with your mind. Also, you can see here how pushing Clara too much can be a bad idea. I mean, we have seen her ruthless side now and then, but since this Doctor started to put her, a control freak, in situations that she can't control, she had become more and more detached from reality (just look at Flatline). But we also had seen that Danny was her anchor (forest episode), and once she loses him... well, we saw what happens. I loved that take on her, I love that it shows that she has flaws and that she owns them. Her reaction after she realises what she have done is amazing. The whole idea of her becoming mad is amazing! I think that's why i didn't think she was being stupid. She was in a very destructive mindset, that's it. It was an "if I lose, you lose" kind of plan, and to be fair, she didn't think the Doctor would let her come that far, but like she said in the first episode: "Threats don't work unless you deliver". Anyway, I loved seeing her and the Doctor fighting for control in that scene. After all, that's what this season has been all about. It's about their relationship, and how it can be toxic to those around them. Consequences! I think it's been a long time since we haven't seen this in Doctor Who.
There is a Time Lady in the Classic Series called The Rani who is just as devious as the Master. During filming of the Missy reveal they put in a red herring where Missy reveals she is a Random Access Neural Interface (R.A.N.I) to mess with fans who came to the filming and lip read the actors. Moffatt is clever with those hidden in plain sight arcs. He did the same with Melody Pond/ River Song.
I love watching Blind Wave reactions to Doctor Who, but if I had one dislike, it is that the guys apparently don't at least read a spoiler-free description of the original series' characters. I think "The Five Doctors" may be their only connection to it, and it shows badly every time a callback is made to the original series. Many of those of us who knew the OS, wondered if Missy were the Rani, and a few even suggested a twisted version of Ramana, neither of which the guys would have recognized, and so their surprise, though good, was not as strong as some other reactors I've seen. As of this posting, I've not seen their reaction to 8x12, but am wondering if it will be a bit flat at the reference of another original series character.
@@donaldwatson7698 which it literally can't be her I don't think they have the rights to her that's one of the problems they had with bringing Doctor Who back the rights are on me by multiple people like the doctorin the Tardis belong to the BBC but the dialects belong to Terry Nation dialects darlex whatever I'm misspelling it
The last two-parter was actually back in series 6 : "The Rebel Flesh" / "The Almost People." (which imo, is quite the underrated story, but not the point here)
The Missy reveal is one of my favorite moments of the show. So surprising yet it was inevitable for the Doctor's old foe to come back in one form or another. Just didn't expect the show to have the guts to pick this one.
It’s a good first part imo . I feel like Clara’s action was drastic but understandable the beginning ..she was grieving and she felt the Doctor wouldn’t ever agree to save Danny so she tried to make her move by forcing him to . Danny’s death at the beginning is shocking but man , do I wish Danny and his relationship with Clara was fleshed out more for me to strongly care about it . Capaldi was in top form in this and the Master /Cybermen reveal was great !!
Taimur Muggo Clara’s character stopped making since when Capaldi became the doctor. You’d think she would know him well enough to trust him and be honest, not treat him like a stranger to use. She is always questioning his character when she should be questioning her own. Sorry for the random thought.
"Oh man, now I'm thinking of Peter Capaldi making out with River!" Hahah, yeahhh. Also, as far as the Doctor and the Master/Missy, I imagine Time Lords care significantly less about gender when it comes to relationships, since either individual could potentially swap genders at any given moment. And there was always a noticeable chemistry between them, especially from the Master towards the Doctor, *especially* when he was the John Simm regeneration, so it kinda makes sense. It was probably a mixture of "This is a great way to mess with him" and "Kinda always wanted to try this" on the Master's part lol.
Why didn't Noah never mentioned the Chemistry Between the Delgado master and the 3rd doctor like I think I've only ever watched one episode of them years ago because I have issues finding ways to watch old who I don't buy DVDs cuz I never think when I have money. But those two probably got along the best but it was ruined when the master became crispy and that's not a bad thing he was dying and at his worst
5:27 After all these years... How have I only just realised that the circle around the "Rest in peace" message is the literal shape of a Cyberman's eyes?
and before that, the scene where a tear starts to drop from Danny's eye (moment that seems a bit fake but well that's my overall opinion of Danny anyhow) actually also represents the shape of their eyes : a teared up eye.
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" My fiance cheated on me, so this line hit me...REALLY hard. When I originally saw the episode, I had to pause and cry for a bit. This season is full of great moments like this one.
He's been to Pompeii..and HE's been to Pompeii :P And I remember feeling a huge "what the hell?" when Missy revealed her identity ( I loved the Delgado version most and disliked the 'wacky' Simm version. Ainley was decent if a bit too pantomime) but didn't take me long to absolutely love it. Michelle Gomez is awesome. :)
I was telling a friend of mine (who has not watched any of the classics) how great Roger Delgados is as the Master, and I told him there are two kinds of Doctor Who fans; Those who think Delgado is the best Master, and those who have never seen an episode with him in it.
One of the best reveals ever with the cyberman and missy my other top favorite is on shield with daisy getting her powers and her real name as daisy Johnson
There has never ever been a bad doctor like even calling Baker and Jodie Whittaker who have controversy they aren't to blame the writers are and that's why we love multi-doctor stories you put these great actors together
I felt his character was flatter than flat. I don’t think the character was wasted, I think the story and actor were wasted because of this awful character.
@@tadtranclere3729 Very late to this, I feel like at an odds boyfriend of a companion could have worked (sort of how Rory disagreed with what the Doctor did at times and brought it up in a fair manner) if they didn't change the Doctor's personality to fit him in, we know for a fact that Danny talking about war and calling him a general and implying he never fought as a common solider would have resulted in a huge rant educating Danny on what he's done and how he sacrificed all his values when fighting in the time war and wasn't just commanding others to do things for him. It seemed as though they just wrote Danny as self righteous and ''correct'' and had to tame the Doctor's responses so he didn't logically dismantle everything Danny said. Personally I would have just removed Danny entirely or at least make the Doctor argue back as consistently as he should with his character so it wasn't just a boring one sided attitude and shitting on the Doctor.
my favorite quote in the entire series "do you think i care for you so little that betraying me would make a diference?" it just sums up the doctor so well
I'll say this about Capaldi's tenure, episode 11 is generally one of the best episodes of that series (season if you're American). They're also really quite dark.
Pretty sure that season 8 of Doctor Who had the 3rd doctor cuz I'm pretty sure if they called the classic series seasons in the modern one series to differentiate them honestly if you put me in charge I would just cut it up into arcs
Missy/the Master would have been the one behind the whole plan as the sphere used for the cyberspace reality was a piece of Time Lord technology, what she described as a slice of the Matrix, a sort of repository on Gallifrey where Time Lords would connect their minds and download their memories and knowledge before they die
For me this was the best of the season and possibly one of the best of New Who to this point. As for guessing who Missy was, I'd guessed by episode 2 but by this time I'd changed my mind so many times I was miles off!
Clever Calvin catching the Cybermen eyes on the doors. The Master is back! And she's pissed off at her "boyfriend". I remember being so shocked by the death of Danny, not because I particularly loved him but because it was so unexpected and random like Clara says to her Nan in the kitchen. Also, fun to see Nan again. "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" - The Doctor. Still hits me in the feels! And I love Clara threatening the Doctor with losing his TARDIS and how completely surprised she is by her own actions, following through and even if in a dream, tossing all the keys into the Volcano. It's dark and impressive and only serves to highlight more how she is taking the Doctor attitude as her own.
Grief makes people stupid. They do stupid things, they say stupid things to each other, they tear themselves apart and they tear others apart in the process. None of it is really intentional -- in hindsight there are always regrets -- but at the time they cannot help themselves. They are literally in shock at the sudden loss of someone they care about. Their mind is struggling to comprehend what has happened and they would do anything and everything to go back to how things were before -- before all the pain and heartache and the days, weeks, or months of restless nights spent crying instead of sleeping -- despite the fact that there is no way to undo it all. Someone close to them was just snatched away forever and, as a byproduct, so was a part of themselves. They're grieving the loss of someone they loved, the life they once had, the joy they used to feel and the person they once were. All that said, Clara in this episode is a character who has just been plunged into this living hell. She isn't thinking clearly because few people really can in that situation, and she does something stupid because she is nothing but raw emotion now. If you ask me, as someone who has some experience in this matter, I would say she is remarkably more well-composed than most people would be. Up until she threw the keys into the lava, she had only one shred of hope -- which is more than most -- and from her perspective the one chance she thought she had to undo everything that has happened didn't pan out. Naturally, given her already complex emotional state, she lashed out and threw the last key in. She herself destroyed what little hope she had because of a single moment of anger and in reality if that scene had played out any longer before The Doctor woke her from the dream, she probably would have thrown herself into the lava, too. All the hope she had was lost and for all she knew she was trapped inside an active volcano. What else can she hope for at that point but a quick ending?
The Cybermen were in fact revealed to return before the trailer. When they were filming the series they were announced to come back then. They were going to film in London with them as you can see at the end of this episode and beginning next episode and obviously there is loads of people around. So instead of being leaked they decided just to announce they were coming back.
No, it's been discussed here a few times, that he's such a puppy, has such a short attention span that the only thing he notices is how good looking Clara is :D
@@jrobertlysaght No its true, I know all friends group have "the dumb one" but its not usually always so obvious as it is with shane. the fact that he also still can't pronounce her name properly is infuriating (in the same way nails on a chalkboard is)
Aside from the obvious moments my favourite moment was when the Doctor takes a few seconds to compose himself while Clara was crying before turning round to tell her to 'Cut out the whining while you're at it.' he's not being abusive or inconsiderate, he just knows that Clara being the control freak she is responds better to tough love than being mollycoddled. That's true friendship.
The music when the door closes also hints to it. I'm pretty sure Murray Gold has used that same melody throughout his run when you have Cybermen episodes.
coladict yes, but not just the cybermen. The daleks also have the same theme that plays as a background motif every time they appear. Murray Gold is amazing for his musical cues
If you like Capaldi being intense, you really should check out The Thick of It, which among many other excellent features has Capaldi acting his socks off.
I've been waiting for this two-parter for so long, well since Missy made her first appearance! So glad you guys loved it, and I loved Aaron's deadpan face when Calvin says It's Cybermen! The location was St. Pauls Cathedral in central London!
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" Still love that line so much. And as Steven Moffat said: That's the closest thing that the Doctor will ever get to saying 'I love you' to Clara. And he's damn right.
I get what you're saying about Capaldi's "otherworldly" quality. His performance is phenomenal, and I have to wonder if that comes from his deep love of the show way before he was ever cast as The Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor makes me believe in a sliver of a chance that he is not a human but really is a thousand-year-old time lord. I can't help but suspect that when he's not filming, Peter Capaldi is actually traveling through time and space in a blue box.
"In the middle of England/In the middle of London, same thing" is not incorrect in the sense of the plot relevance. The point is that they are in the real world/our dimension. So yes, "New York/America" would indeed be the same point plot-wise.
Now I like!the Time LordsBut LOVE!!! The Ancients from the Stargate universe!! Which the spinning area on the roof of the TARDIS reminds me of the spinning part on the Stargate. Like row #1 Time #2 Space #3 Dimensions!!
*_"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"_* Damn it! I'm sobbing AGAIN! 💙💙 Also, how great was everything else in this episode?! Waited for this reaction so long & it was well worth it! All those moments... "DOCTOR CHANG!", the doors closing, the water lowering, the Sphere concept & Michelle Gomez is so frikken brilliant!😎
Love seeing Ollie Reeder from The Thick of It in the same production as Peter, as a guy working in the nethersphere. Such a cool comedian & actor. Him and Peter Capaldi as Malcolm Tucker were my absolute favourite characters in The Thick of It. Even though, no one can really beat Peter's acting ☺️
Clara's plan at the beginning wasn't stupid as much as it was a consequence of distraught fatalism. She was prepared to never leave that volcano if the Doctor said "No!" and forced her to melt all the keys. In that emotional state she wasn't interested in living without Danny.
Also we've seen in Deep Breath that Clara thinks one must always follow through with their threats, that's why she threw the keys as she said she would, and cut off communication with Danny after her ultimatum without dilly-dallying.
@@ppem1988 We've seen the doctor lock the doors before and use the keys to get in. We've also seen him use the keys to summon the tardis....so maybe a bit important.
You're definitely lucky not to know about the Cybermen before. Here in the UK, they put them in the trailer, so we knew they were coming. Also, the cybermen outside St Paul's Cathedral in London is a callback to old classic Who when that happened.
This is how you do a gender change right. It had story importance, it felt natural due to the unpredictable nature of the Master, and she's a completely different person from any previous Master in just her first episode. There's a reason 90% of Who fans love Missy.
@@DasKame I didn't say they killed Doctor Who period, I said they killed it for a lot of people. It isn't the show a lot of people fell in love with anymore, so while they may be making new stuff it's just not Doctor Who for a lot of people.
...omigod! you guys have totally sussed us out - we scots are actually an alien race from the far distant planet 'ochaye'. celtic cousins, the haggis is out the bag - abhort mission! abhort!! (great reaction, by the way!)
Such a cliffhanger! Really looking forward to the reaction to the finale. Even though I got this reveal right, it was still enjoyable to watch, as well as the hell concept itself and the dream sequence. From here onwards, the 12th Doctor goes into some serious gear and it doesn't stop there guys. Gotta love Capaldi and these reactions!
On rewatch it's so obvious they were all Cybermen. We had a clue the Cybermen where the big bad at the end of the series back in Flatline. At the end of the episode we saw Missy and behind her was the Cyberman eye as the window on the door. The whole deleting feelings was a clear giveaway and yet on first viewing I completely missed the reference. On my second watch everything is clear and you see how clever and well thought out Dark Water is. Bring on next week.
Back when this series was airing the fans on a Doctor Who website I use pretty much guessed that Missy was The Master and when it was revealed it was The Master there was some resistance to the idea in the comments on the site. Another theory was she was the Raini. Then again the Raini is always theorised to come back in every series. Her or Omega.
You got understand that in the Doctor Who world Clara traveling with the doctor and dating Danny takes place in a couple of months or over the years. But to the viewers it's just only a few weeks.
Watch next weeks Doctor Who Series 8 Finale Reaction RIGHT NOW Here: www.patreon.com/posts/28444226
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" One of Capaldi's absolute best lines as the Doctor.
Every lines of Capaldi's Doctor are epic
The whole series sunned up in one sentence.
That's one of the best lines of any TV show -ever-.
The thing about Capaldi is that he's 110% intense in every scene, no matter how simple or casual that scene might be. He could be asking for a glass of water and he'll do it as if he was onstage at the Globe Theater performing Othello. It works really well for the Doctor because it simultaneously makes him seem very impressive while also making him seem super weird and ill-fitting in a casual human setting.
You've hit the nail on the head about Capaldi's consistent intensity and "super weirdness", qualities that Tom Baker had in abundance. I guess that's one of the reasons why Tom and Peter are my #1 and #2 Doctors of all time.
Considering I have watched a production of Othello at the globe, you've got it 😂
Capaldi is the single greatest Doctor in regard to presence. Nobody else has the ability to walk up, say something, and everybody just listens.
@ArlanKels (Excluding Thirteen) literally every other Doctor has been capable of making the room listen ...
@@thedoctorgeneric5007 McCoy came across as pretty feeble with the weak scripts he got in his first run, but both he and the writing improved in subsequent series.
I wish more people would've gotten from Clara's conversation with her grandmother that she was in shock. She has that dead look in her eyes, she's barely coherent, granny said she hasn't even cried. So her completely illogical "plan" wasn't so much a plan, it was someone not in their right mind lashing out in despair. It's not portrayed as a calculated attempt to get what she wants, more like a manifestation of some trauma-induced delusion that she can take control of life and death. After she throws all the keys in the volcano, when she looks increasingly horrified and gasps "what have I done?" it's like she's snapping out of a trance. Idk man I personally love that whole volcano/tardis sequence. It deals with a lot of complex and deeply *human* shit in a short amount of time, with great dialogue and standout performances from both actors.
YESS
Jenna Coleman portrays it perfectly, her acting is on point as it always is
"I couldn't very well keep calling myself The Master." Iconic. I remember the moment I first heard that line, I was so shocked and excited.
By saying that Clara was a "mess of chemicals", I think the Doctor was referring to her chemistry being out of whack due to her grief at Danny's loss, not writing off all love as a purely chemical state.
eringoblah oh love is more than chemicals... and... well, spoilers
@@CrankyGrandma Having seen all of Doctor Who from 1963 to 2022, what? What do you mean?
@@strbourne they are tal king about husbands of river song
Finally! I've been waiting for this reaction since Missy's first appearance
Well their reaction was a little anti-climatic... like Series 8 as a whole.
mashallah alhamdulillah inshallah better
The performances from Peter and Jenna in the dream state (anger, pain, desperation) then back in the Tardis (vulnerability, hurt, love) are outstanding. Peter and Jenna are really the best actor and actress to have played a Doctor and a companion and they deserve all the praise. The Tardis scene also contains two of my top favorite lines from 12: "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference" and "Let's see what we are made of, you and I." They summarize perfectly why 12/Clara are so special together. Sure, other Doctors flirted with their companions, but 12's bond with Clara seems so much deeper and stronger. There is an element of unconditional devotion that is undeniable. And it continues to be developed (and, in fact, becomes the main arc) next season. I can't wait.
Absolutely agreed! Jenna Coleman is so underrated. Her performance as Clara is one of the most layered we've ever gotten on the show.
Yes!! Next series! But before... The Christmas special.
Agree. Not only do I think they're the best actors to ever inhabit their particular roles, but I think they elevate one another, which the best actors do. The great actors bring out the best in others they perform with, and I think they do that with one another. Part of it is actor chemistry: their chemistry is off the chart; part of it is pure skill. Whatever someone thinks of the 12th Doctor or Clara, as actors they are exemplary.
Devotion is such a good description for their relationship
It all becomes fucked up when you realize the whole thing was planned by Missy. She saw the bond that the doctor had with other versions of Clara so she got them together. And they formed a bond so strong that the doctor was forced to forget Clara because he was becoming a threat to reality itself just to protect her.
Clara throws all the tardis keys
Clara: You can't open the tardis now
The Doctor clicks his fingers and tardis doors opens
Clara: Damm i forgot
She still didn't fully understand that the tardis is alive and conscious. Keys are more for convenience.
@@VenoRPG She clicked her hand to open the tardis a couple of episodes ago so she knows it can open that way
@@vortexalliance9938 I like to think the Doctor needs the key to be able to click. Hence why the Doctor couldn't do it in The Ghost Monument
@@FirstSlateProductionsOfficial That will seem pointless but ok thats you opinion
Also nothing counts from the series that must not be named
@@vortexalliance9938 why doesnt he click in the next episode during that epic Mission:Impossible scene?
The Cybermen on the steps of St. Paul's Cathederal in London is an iconic image from Classic Who and gave people like me the chills.
_The Invasion_ is easily one of my favourite Doctor Who stories. First appearance of UNIT, Kevin Stoney as the villain, and Don Harper's amazing soundtrack... what's not to love?
I laughed hard when Calvin recognised the Cyberman eyes in the door -"Ahhhh, that's great!"
And Shane's silent while Eric's just nodding calmly like, "Yes, yes... of course..." until Calvin has to actually say, "Cybermen...!" out loud for the revelation to finally hit them!
The cybermen walking down the steps is also a call back to a storyline with, I think the second doctor, when the Cybermen invaded Earth and the scene is an exact match.
Missy’s reveal, PE dies, Cybermen. This episode has it all really. Easily one of the best episodes of the season, one of the best episodes of Capaldi's era, and one of the best cliffhangers out of the whole Moffat era. I did think 'Death in Heaven' was slightly less good, but still a solid two-parter overall. Also, one of Capaldi's best lines: "Do you seriously think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
"We havent had part 1 for long time"
Get ready for season 9.
The thing I love about this finale, is how it pays-off everything that they've building this season. You can see now why Danny is so protective with the kids. You can see how this Doctor is more empathic than he likes to show. His reaction towards Clara is almost like his reaction towards the Teller, who had killed for the protection of a loved one. He is understanding, because he knows how grief can mess with your mind.
Also, you can see here how pushing Clara too much can be a bad idea. I mean, we have seen her ruthless side now and then, but since this Doctor started to put her, a control freak, in situations that she can't control, she had become more and more detached from reality (just look at Flatline). But we also had seen that Danny was her anchor (forest episode), and once she loses him... well, we saw what happens. I loved that take on her, I love that it shows that she has flaws and that she owns them. Her reaction after she realises what she have done is amazing. The whole idea of her becoming mad is amazing! I think that's why i didn't think she was being stupid. She was in a very destructive mindset, that's it. It was an "if I lose, you lose" kind of plan, and to be fair, she didn't think the Doctor would let her come that far, but like she said in the first episode: "Threats don't work unless you deliver". Anyway, I loved seeing her and the Doctor fighting for control in that scene. After all, that's what this season has been all about. It's about their relationship, and how it can be toxic to those around them. Consequences! I think it's been a long time since we haven't seen this in Doctor Who.
Plus, the toxic relationship of the Doctor and Clara continues right to the end of Season 9. Exacerbates each time that Missy shows up actually.
There is a Time Lady in the Classic Series called The Rani who is just as devious as the Master. During filming of the Missy reveal they put in a red herring where Missy reveals she is a Random Access Neural Interface (R.A.N.I) to mess with fans who came to the filming and lip read the actors. Moffatt is clever with those hidden in plain sight arcs. He did the same with Melody Pond/ River Song.
I love watching Blind Wave reactions to Doctor Who, but if I had one dislike, it is that the guys apparently don't at least read a spoiler-free description of the original series' characters. I think "The Five Doctors" may be their only connection to it, and it shows badly every time a callback is made to the original series. Many of those of us who knew the OS, wondered if Missy were the Rani, and a few even suggested a twisted version of Ramana, neither of which the guys would have recognized, and so their surprise, though good, was not as strong as some other reactors I've seen. As of this posting, I've not seen their reaction to 8x12, but am wondering if it will be a bit flat at the reference of another original series character.
@@donaldwatson7698 which it literally can't be her I don't think they have the rights to her that's one of the problems they had with bringing Doctor Who back the rights are on me by multiple people like the doctorin the Tardis belong to the BBC but the dialects belong to Terry Nation dialects darlex whatever I'm misspelling it
Michelle Gomez is an absolute goddess, I fell in love with her again in the new Sabrina show
Did not know she had a pArt. In that its on my to watch list
I was so excited when I saw her in sabrina I couldn't believe it, I had no idea she was even in it until I started watching and suddenly she showed up
Paul Pem yeah she had a significant role in the show
And in both shows she ended up in hell.
mischatal
*spoilers!*
I haven’t seen the new season yet.
The visual/audio cues leading up to the Cybermen twist are so damn good.
The last two-parter was actually back in series 6 : "The Rebel Flesh" / "The Almost People." (which imo, is quite the underrated story, but not the point here)
Careful, if you praise anything on Series 6 the triggered manbabies attack you viciously!
NPE 94 is that still a thing? Series 6 was my favorite
And it's all two parters for Season 9, Eric is going to flip his shit every other episode.
@@aamj0050 Reddit is a sewer. I once casually said on the reddit doctor who pages I liked Matt Smith the most and got a load of abuse.
Triskan I could be wrong but I thought the last two/three parter was The Doctor Trilogy?
I knew Calvin would get the Cyberman eyes first
I’ve been waiting for this!! Also, that cyber theme with the eye symbols on the door gets me every time!
The Missy reveal is one of my favorite moments of the show. So surprising yet it was inevitable for the Doctor's old foe to come back in one form or another. Just didn't expect the show to have the guts to pick this one.
It’s a good first part imo .
I feel like Clara’s action was drastic but understandable the beginning ..she was grieving and she felt the Doctor wouldn’t ever agree to save Danny so she tried to make her move by forcing him to . Danny’s death at the beginning is shocking but man , do I wish Danny and his relationship with Clara was fleshed out more for me to strongly care about it .
Capaldi was in top form in this and the Master /Cybermen reveal was great !!
Taimur Muggo Clara’s character stopped making since when Capaldi became the doctor. You’d think she would know him well enough to trust him and be honest, not treat him like a stranger to use. She is always questioning his character when she should be questioning her own.
Sorry for the random thought.
"Oh man, now I'm thinking of Peter Capaldi making out with River!"
Hahah, yeahhh. Also, as far as the Doctor and the Master/Missy, I imagine Time Lords care significantly less about gender when it comes to relationships, since either individual could potentially swap genders at any given moment. And there was always a noticeable chemistry between them, especially from the Master towards the Doctor, *especially* when he was the John Simm regeneration, so it kinda makes sense. It was probably a mixture of "This is a great way to mess with him" and "Kinda always wanted to try this" on the Master's part lol.
Master is to Mistress, as Lord is to Lady, as Sir is to Dame.
Why didn't Noah never mentioned the Chemistry Between the Delgado master and the 3rd doctor like I think I've only ever watched one episode of them years ago because I have issues finding ways to watch old who I don't buy DVDs cuz I never think when I have money.
But those two probably got along the best but it was ruined when the master became crispy and that's not a bad thing he was dying and at his worst
Sad there was no reaction to "Don't cremate us"
5:27 After all these years... How have I only just realised that the circle around the "Rest in peace" message is the literal shape of a Cyberman's eyes?
and before that, the scene where a tear starts to drop from Danny's eye (moment that seems a bit fake but well that's my overall opinion of Danny anyhow) actually also represents the shape of their eyes : a teared up eye.
@@annabellejouchoux7102 I didn't even realise that! Thanks for pointing that out.
@@TheUnknown313 your welcome ! ;) I'm currently rewatching 11th and 12th eras so I'm in the process of noticing things I didn't' in my first run ^^
Annabelle Jouchoux Oh good luck!! Might just do that myself :)
Aaron, don't forget there is a mid-credits scene next episode.
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" My fiance cheated on me, so this line hit me...REALLY hard. When I originally saw the episode, I had to pause and cry for a bit. This season is full of great moments like this one.
She is my favorite Master. Y'all are going to love Her
Also They should do a psycotic Marry Poppins :) A spoon full of sugar helps the lye go down
Hell yeah! She's my 2nd favourite right after the first (the Original you might say!😉) Roger Delgado!
Michelle Gomez is superb in every scene! 😍👍
Definitely my favorite.
Love hearing Eric's thoughts (and agree) on why 12 is his favorite.
He's been to Pompeii..and HE's been to Pompeii :P And I remember feeling a huge "what the hell?" when Missy revealed her identity ( I loved the Delgado version most and disliked the 'wacky' Simm version. Ainley was decent if a bit too pantomime) but didn't take me long to absolutely love it. Michelle Gomez is awesome. :)
I was telling a friend of mine (who has not watched any of the classics) how great Roger Delgados is as the Master, and I told him there are two kinds of Doctor Who fans; Those who think Delgado is the best Master, and those who have never seen an episode with him in it.
*Season 10 spoiler*
I think Simm was really good in season 10 when he was with Missy
@@CatCubed yes so much better
One of the best reveals ever with the cyberman and missy my other top favorite is on shield with daisy getting her powers and her real name as daisy Johnson
@@CatCubed oh yes I was gonna say that too but didn't know how to do a spoiler hide. He was actually really great in that episode. Also beard. 🙂
Capaldi is too good of an actor for this show and we are BLESSED to have him for 3 whole seasons.
I wish we had more... Well, let's hope Big Finish does him justice.
I would say he elevated Doctor Who to where it should be.
There has never ever been a bad doctor like even calling Baker and Jodie Whittaker who have controversy they aren't to blame the writers are and that's why we love multi-doctor stories you put these great actors together
Oh, I've been waiting for this one!
But I really felt bad about Danny. I thought his character was really badly mis-used.
I felt his character was flatter than flat. I don’t think the character was wasted, I think the story and actor were wasted because of this awful character.
Tad Tranclere Danny is my favorite character in this season. He's amazing. I don't get the hate.
I guess his and Clara’s descendant was written out of history.
@@tadtranclere3729 Very late to this, I feel like at an odds boyfriend of a companion could have worked (sort of how Rory disagreed with what the Doctor did at times and brought it up in a fair manner) if they didn't change the Doctor's personality to fit him in, we know for a fact that Danny talking about war and calling him a general and implying he never fought as a common solider would have resulted in a huge rant educating Danny on what he's done and how he sacrificed all his values when fighting in the time war and wasn't just commanding others to do things for him. It seemed as though they just wrote Danny as self righteous and ''correct'' and had to tame the Doctor's responses so he didn't logically dismantle everything Danny said.
Personally I would have just removed Danny entirely or at least make the Doctor argue back as consistently as he should with his character so it wasn't just a boring one sided attitude and shitting on the Doctor.
4:09 Wow! I completely forgot he said that. That's a great delivery.
Favorite part of the episode, personally
One of my favourite lines/moments of the 12th Doctor.
Really love the (re)introduction of Missy, can't wait for you guys to see next season!
‘It’s weird thinking about the Master making out with the Doctor’.
Not in the fanfic I read it isn’t 😂
"Do you think I care for so little that betraying me would make a difference?" That's when Peter became my Doctor!
I mostly look forward to Eric getting upset at the "to be continued" lolol. God I wish dark water was real too.
I never got the appeal of dark water. Except for voyeurism, which I'm not into. I guess it's a cool party trick to stick your hand in but still...
my favorite quote in the entire series "do you think i care for you so little that betraying me would make a diference?" it just sums up the doctor so well
I'll say this about Capaldi's tenure, episode 11 is generally one of the best episodes of that series (season if you're American). They're also really quite dark.
Pretty sure that season 8 of Doctor Who had the 3rd doctor cuz I'm pretty sure if they called the classic series seasons in the modern one series to differentiate them honestly if you put me in charge I would just cut it up into arcs
Aaron "Middle of England. Middle of London. Same thing". Like saying Florida is the middle of America.
Well neither are fully independent countries so what does it matter?
Do you mean Florida isn't in the centre of the US?
It's the armpit of hell!
Conrad Ferrus they are if you make them
Technically London is in the middle of England
Missy/the Master would have been the one behind the whole plan as the sphere used for the cyberspace reality was a piece of Time Lord technology, what she described as a slice of the Matrix, a sort of repository on Gallifrey where Time Lords would connect their minds and download their memories and knowledge before they die
“The ONE thing you shouldn’t do when you’re time traveling!”
“Cross the road?”
DIED
For me this was the best of the season and possibly one of the best of New Who to this point.
As for guessing who Missy was, I'd guessed by episode 2 but by this time I'd changed my mind so many times I was miles off!
Clever Calvin catching the Cybermen eyes on the doors.
The Master is back! And she's pissed off at her "boyfriend".
I remember being so shocked by the death of Danny, not because I particularly loved him but because it was so unexpected and random like Clara says to her Nan in the kitchen. Also, fun to see Nan again.
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" - The Doctor. Still hits me in the feels!
And I love Clara threatening the Doctor with losing his TARDIS and how completely surprised she is by her own actions, following through and even if in a dream, tossing all the keys into the Volcano. It's dark and impressive and only serves to highlight more how she is taking the Doctor attitude as her own.
Grief makes people stupid. They do stupid things, they say stupid things to each other, they tear themselves apart and they tear others apart in the process. None of it is really intentional -- in hindsight there are always regrets -- but at the time they cannot help themselves. They are literally in shock at the sudden loss of someone they care about. Their mind is struggling to comprehend what has happened and they would do anything and everything to go back to how things were before -- before all the pain and heartache and the days, weeks, or months of restless nights spent crying instead of sleeping -- despite the fact that there is no way to undo it all. Someone close to them was just snatched away forever and, as a byproduct, so was a part of themselves. They're grieving the loss of someone they loved, the life they once had, the joy they used to feel and the person they once were.
All that said, Clara in this episode is a character who has just been plunged into this living hell. She isn't thinking clearly because few people really can in that situation, and she does something stupid because she is nothing but raw emotion now. If you ask me, as someone who has some experience in this matter, I would say she is remarkably more well-composed than most people would be. Up until she threw the keys into the lava, she had only one shred of hope -- which is more than most -- and from her perspective the one chance she thought she had to undo everything that has happened didn't pan out. Naturally, given her already complex emotional state, she lashed out and threw the last key in. She herself destroyed what little hope she had because of a single moment of anger and in reality if that scene had played out any longer before The Doctor woke her from the dream, she probably would have thrown herself into the lava, too. All the hope she had was lost and for all she knew she was trapped inside an active volcano. What else can she hope for at that point but a quick ending?
Excellent take on the situation. Thx.
wow omg that just makes me want to hug and comfort her even more :(
poor girl 🥺
God, I wish I had Calvin to tell me about the circles because I'm with Eric here and TOTALLY didn't put that together until the official reveal.
Haarute LIVE not even with the massive cyberman theme leitmotif?
@@ab830 I'm not good with sounds.
I think their enjoyment of this episode proves it’d be 1000 times better if they hadn’t put the cybermen in the trailer.
The Cybermen were in fact revealed to return before the trailer. When they were filming the series they were announced to come back then. They were going to film in London with them as you can see at the end of this episode and beginning next episode and obviously there is loads of people around. So instead of being leaked they decided just to announce they were coming back.
Am I the only one who thinks Shane never has a clue of what the hell is going on around him? :D
No, it's been discussed here a few times, that he's such a puppy, has such a short attention span that the only thing he notices is how good looking Clara is :D
I feel like him and Eric are polar opposites when it comes to reacting. He's still cool though
@@Domihork Yet he still can't say her name properly
am I the only one who thinks that OP's statement was needlessly unkind?
@@jrobertlysaght No its true, I know all friends group have "the dumb one" but its not usually always so obvious as it is with shane. the fact that he also still can't pronounce her name properly is infuriating (in the same way nails on a chalkboard is)
Aside from the obvious moments my favourite moment was when the Doctor takes a few seconds to compose himself while Clara was crying before turning round to tell her to 'Cut out the whining while you're at it.' he's not being abusive or inconsiderate, he just knows that Clara being the control freak she is responds better to tough love than being mollycoddled. That's true friendship.
This is one of my favorite plot twists in the show cause I never saw missy being the master
Has anyone picked up that the rhythm in the master's head are the first four notes of the show's theme song.
I’m not gonna lie, I didn’t even notice the logo design until you mentioned it.
The music when the door closes also hints to it. I'm pretty sure Murray Gold has used that same melody throughout his run when you have Cybermen episodes.
coladict yes, but not just the cybermen. The daleks also have the same theme that plays as a background motif every time they appear. Murray Gold is amazing for his musical cues
If you like Capaldi being intense, you really should check out The Thick of It, which among many other excellent features has Capaldi acting his socks off.
He plays a guy who talks about ancient Egypt and stuff
@@GoodVibeCounterfeit I think you must be thinking of some other show.
Obdormio No, “I used to be the fucking Pharaoh Terri”
6:41 Shane realizes the connection to the Cybermen
Was hoping to see their reaction to what the three words were. I remember that scene making my skin crawl.
I've been waiting for this two-parter for so long, well since Missy made her first appearance! So glad you guys loved it, and I loved Aaron's deadpan face when Calvin says It's Cybermen! The location was St. Pauls Cathedral in central London!
Did you guys ever get to watching the 5(ish) Doctors? It was part of the 50th anniversary programs.
I agree with Eric, Clara was quite Hell Bent in this episode, while the Doctor was more Heaven Sent
They have referred to the Master's drumbeat as 'the heartbeat of a Timelord' before!
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
Still love that line so much. And as Steven Moffat said: That's the closest thing that the Doctor will ever get to saying 'I love you' to Clara. And he's damn right.
Hey missy you do fine you blow my mind. Hey Missy!
It's that time again to see another reaction to a character master.
Calvin’s reaction to the Cybermen was great
Michelle Gomez is amazing in a UK comedy series called “Green Wing” ... she plays a head of HR in a hospital.
I like her in bad Education as the head
Sue White!
I get what you're saying about Capaldi's "otherworldly" quality. His performance is phenomenal, and I have to wonder if that comes from his deep love of the show way before he was ever cast as The Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor makes me believe in a sliver of a chance that he is not a human but really is a thousand-year-old time lord. I can't help but suspect that when he's not filming, Peter Capaldi is actually traveling through time and space in a blue box.
Oi! That’s like saying. ‘New York, America. Same thing’
"In the middle of England/In the middle of London, same thing" is not incorrect in the sense of the plot relevance. The point is that they are in the real world/our dimension. So yes, "New York/America" would indeed be the same point plot-wise.
Now I like!the Time LordsBut LOVE!!! The Ancients from the Stargate universe!! Which the spinning area on the roof of the TARDIS reminds me of the spinning part on the Stargate. Like row #1 Time #2 Space #3 Dimensions!!
Something that I learned recently, is that Jenna Coleman (Clara) was dating Richard Madden (Robb Stark) while she was on Doctor Who
*_"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"_*
Damn it! I'm sobbing AGAIN! 💙💙
Also, how great was everything else in this episode?!
Waited for this reaction so long & it was well worth it! All those moments...
"DOCTOR CHANG!", the doors closing, the water lowering, the Sphere concept & Michelle Gomez is so frikken brilliant!😎
Hey, Missy, you so fine, you so fine, you blew my mind. Hey, Missy! Hey, Missy!
Love seeing Ollie Reeder from The Thick of It in the same production as Peter, as a guy working in the nethersphere. Such a cool comedian & actor. Him and Peter Capaldi as Malcolm Tucker were my absolute favourite characters in The Thick of It.
Even though, no one can really beat Peter's acting ☺️
Clara's plan at the beginning wasn't stupid as much as it was a consequence of distraught fatalism. She was prepared to never leave that volcano if the Doctor said "No!" and forced her to melt all the keys. In that emotional state she wasn't interested in living without Danny.
Also we've seen in Deep Breath that Clara thinks one must always follow through with their threats, that's why she threw the keys as she said she would, and cut off communication with Danny after her ultimatum without dilly-dallying.
Doctor dont even need the keys so I dont understand why hes so bothered
Yeah, I figured that scene was there to illustrate just how intense her grief was at that moment.
@@ppem1988 We've seen the doctor lock the doors before and use the keys to get in. We've also seen him use the keys to summon the tardis....so maybe a bit important.
@@dinin25 just needs to click his fingers,
Yes
Been looking forward for all day son
"That's what 'deserved' means."
It's nice to hear that acknowledged.
This doctor get darker & darker! & DARKER!
not yet as dark as his final two-parter will be.
Can't wait for season 9's reaction
9:06 I never realized how brilliant that shot is, that is just great
Capaldi just became my favourite Doctor with that one sentence.
Aaron's look at the camera at 6:05. he knows what's gonna happen
11:40 Eric: "It's the Master!?"
IT'S THE MASTER, STEP IN TIME!
It’s time
I actually watched one of the scenes from this episode being filmed in London at 11:33 it was very interesting
You're definitely lucky not to know about the Cybermen before. Here in the UK, they put them in the trailer, so we knew they were coming. Also, the cybermen outside St Paul's Cathedral in London is a callback to old classic Who when that happened.
Those 3 words still haunt me to this day
yu know i never even noticed the brief tune of the cybermen theme when that door closed
This is how you do a gender change right. It had story importance, it felt natural due to the unpredictable nature of the Master, and she's a completely different person from any previous Master in just her first episode. There's a reason 90% of Who fans love Missy.
And like evertyime: At First all were yelling "This kills Doctor Who!!!"
@@DasKame But Chibnall and Whittaker have killed Who for a lot of people. Moffat and Gomez removed the doubt from most people's minds.
@@epiccarrot88 Sure... Season 11 had more views than 9 and 10... "killed" sure
@@DasKame I didn't say they killed Doctor Who period, I said they killed it for a lot of people. It isn't the show a lot of people fell in love with anymore, so while they may be making new stuff it's just not Doctor Who for a lot of people.
@@epiccarrot88 Let's be Honest: The "Fanbase" yell "We HATE IT"... and watched the next Season anyway, just to complain
Omg it’s here. I’ve been so looking forward to this!!
You are SOOOOOOOOOO gonna love Missy !
...omigod! you guys have totally sussed us out - we scots are actually an alien race from the far distant planet 'ochaye'. celtic cousins, the haggis is out the bag - abhort mission! abhort!! (great reaction, by the way!)
Such a cliffhanger! Really looking forward to the reaction to the finale. Even though I got this reveal right, it was still enjoyable to watch, as well as the hell concept itself and the dream sequence. From here onwards, the 12th Doctor goes into some serious gear and it doesn't stop there guys. Gotta love Capaldi and these reactions!
I love Calvin waiting for someone else to see the doors and get it.
On rewatch it's so obvious they were all Cybermen. We had a clue the Cybermen where the big bad at the end of the series back in Flatline. At the end of the episode we saw Missy and behind her was the Cyberman eye as the window on the door. The whole deleting feelings was a clear giveaway and yet on first viewing I completely missed the reference. On my second watch everything is clear and you see how clever and well thought out Dark Water is. Bring on next week.
They actually showed the cybermen in trailer for this episode.
Back when this series was airing the fans on a Doctor Who website I use pretty much guessed that Missy was The Master and when it was revealed it was The Master there was some resistance to the idea in the comments on the site.
Another theory was she was the Raini. Then again the Raini is always theorised to come back in every series. Her or Omega.
I thought one of them would have noticed from the exoskeleton line
You can subtly hear the drums in the background, and they get louder as she begins to reveal herself
Missy probably read SCP 2718 and went from there.
You got understand that in the Doctor Who world Clara traveling with the doctor and dating Danny takes place in a couple of months or over the years. But to the viewers it's just only a few weeks.
I think there's a 12th + Jenny adventure in one of the Who comics.
This episode is awesome with the build up