Finally Missy is out of the bottle and I don’t have to avoid talking about her any more. Michelle Gomez is just so perfect as Missy and any scene with her and Capaldi is just magnetic.
they are not yelling at you are saying you did anything wrong, it is just she has been spoiled before over a particular moment and we are trying to make sure it doesn't happen again, nothing against you personally.
12:10 - "Am I missing something obvious?" Yes - the design of the doors is such that when they close, the windows form the shape of a Cyberman face, complete with the distincitive 'teardrop' on the edge of the eyes.
Indeed, plus the music in that part was New Who's distinctive Cybermen leitmotif which i'm pretty sure has been in every New Who Cyberman episode to date.
"Do you think that I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference." That's when you finally know for sure how good Capladi's Doctor is.
That's not goodness, that's love. Totally different thing. Many of the most morally despicable people our species has ever produced felt love. Forgiving one you love for betraying you doesn't make you good, just means you love them very much.
The beginning of this episode is so well edited :( Also 6:45 hits deep "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
I loved that scene and it made me feel a connection extending from 11th to 12th. Clara has better chemistry with 12th than she had with 11th, but still, considering all the important moments they went through together even while saving Gallafray, and that she was willing to die saving him by jumping into his timeline, plus their adventures after the regeneration into 12th, he is willing to overlook her bad judgement when she is emotionally affected by Danny's dead.
Well, "clearest indication" _so far_ but yep, great line in a great scene. Series 8 and onwards is where Jenna Coleman really gets to show her chops IMO.
The thing to keep in mind with Clara and Danny is that, while she does indeed like and care for him to some extent, she's essentially using him has a scapegoat to deny her full commitment and feelings for the Doctor. When Danny and that scapegoat is gone, it breaks her a little and she has to confront that, as we see in this episode.
Easily the best episode of the season, one of the best episodes of Capaldi's era, and one of the best cliffhangers in the Moffat era. I think Death in Heaven was slightly less good, but Missy was fabulous all the way through both episodes, she's the best incarnation of the Master by a LONG shot in my opinion, so I'm glad you like her so far! Looking forward to the next one :)
Honestly, I'm glad you don't over-analyze things when it comes to the plot. So many reactors do that and miss half the episode because they're too concentrated on their theories, and they end up not really reacting to the episode, but what they think future episodes are going to be like. It can be frustrating.
"He believed it was a telepathic communication from the dead" "Why? Was he an idiot?" And "Just hurry up or I'll hit you with my shoe" Are two gems from this episode that I feel are completely underrated
The Master was my first guess, but I didn't believe it at the time. I remember thinking "two hearts" at the exact moment the Doctor said it, and I was convinced that she was the Master from that point.
When you started getting emotional at 6:11 I was like "Just wait. It gets even better." I love that scene so much. It makes me tear up every time. I think that's when I started falling in love with Twelve.
One thing i love that im just now noticing is that 12 kind of had a smile for a second that his old friend is alive but then it transforms into sheer panic
I think the reason a lot of people didn't take to Clara and Danny being a good couple is because we only saw them together in "snippets" i should say, but with Amy and Rory we had a lot of screen time with them together and watched as their relationship grew to where it was.
Eh, I didn't really like Amy and Rory's relationship either, even though I adored Rory. It had the same problem as Clara and Danny, in that they never felt like partners. Moffat seems incapable of writing a couple where they are equals. Even Eleven and River had River slapping the shit out of Eleven constantly and ordering him around, not to mention them lying to each other all the time. That's why, despite it no longer being an acceptable "ship" in the eyes of many fans, I miss the Doctor and Rose. They were partners. They fought, but came back together in understanding every time, and neither of them slapped the other around, lied to the other or treated the other like an inferior on a regular basis. They felt...I dunno...more real. More like people who would actually be in a relationship, rather than Moffat's fevered imaginings of what would be a "cool" pairing.
@@ms_scribbles how u feel about ten & rose, is exactly how i feel about 12 & clara, except i only see them as platonic, whereas we know that ten & rose's relationship was romantic. i know clara did slap 12 that one time, and they would lie to each other sometimes, but once their relationship had gotten better they were an absolute dream team.
Great reaction. Loved it. What you were missing at 12:00, when the door closed and you see the logo mirrored, it's a cyberman face (plus there's a few notes of the 'Lumic Cybermen' theme music played at that moment too).
It just occurred to me how ironic it was that Danny who is known to hate lies from Clara is to forced to perpetuate a lie (that he's not Danny Pink) to save her using the truth (that he loves her)
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" There's not a lot of lines that move me to tears. But that one does it. Such a brutally, introspectively, honest line.
It was one of those 'Holy shit, they just straight up killed him' moments. Doctor Who main character deaths are always really shocking and unexpected like that (and while Danny isn't really a main character, the death fits those parameters)
To answer your question on how she couldn't hear, some phones have extremely powerful noise cancellation. I was talking to someone on a super windy day with a tonne of traffic right next to me and they didn't know. 1. You're the first person I've watched who figured out the Doctor was saying where to go. 2. Don't be sorry, the whole 'do you think you mean so little' exchange is one heck of a kick in the feels.
My other favourite twisty moment was something you missed. Where the Doctor feels he's missing something obvious. The image of the 3W logo was so well established and accepted as representing earth and the nethersphere. So when the image was mirrored on the doubledoors revealing them to be the eyes and tears of the cyberman, my jaw dropped. Like you I knew they were coming back but forgot until that moment.
Danny and Clara's relationship was, by design, flawed. From the beginning you could see that communication was always their weak point. Clara refusing to be honest with Danny, etc. So the end of the episode was perfectly consistent with how it was built up. I think you misinterpreted Clara's intentions at the end when you said "she wants to go be where he is". That's what DANNY thinks, that Clara will die to be with him. But what Clara MEANT was that she and the Doctor would find a way to get to him *so they could bring him back.* So Danny's misunderstanding leads him to purposely say "I love you" because Clara had already threatened to break off the connection if he continued. Clara, on her part, believes that the (real or fake) Danny is *trying* to earn her trust, then concludes that it must be a trick because Danny cannot come up with anything other than "I love you" and so she breaks off the connection. It's actually a brilliant piece of writing. I don't think either "Clara going to extremes to try to save Danny" or "Danny not wanting Clara to die to be with him" is at ALL inconsistent with the relationship that was depicted throughout this season.
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" = Moffat said that was the closest the Doctor will ever come to telling someone he loves them.
I don’t know how I haven’t thought of this, but when you finish a show, you should totally start Merlin! That would be super cool to see you react to! Where’s all the merlin fans at?
Gilanes: Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes, hah. Prime time BBC One Saturday night TV (when Doctor Who isn't on, hah). There's lots of us Merlin fans about.
Same here. I was meditating peacefully this morning and then realised this had probably been posted, so I was like screw you mental health this is a thing! It's like Christmas...
Agree on Danny and Clara. I was trying not to give spoilers in my comment from a couple weeks ago, but basically the relationship is rushed and unearned. It’s manufactured as a plot device just to reach this point, but it never got there organically on its own merits. I don’t have a problem with the characters, and I like the performances; I think both actors did the best they could with what they had to work with, but it should have been written better.
The more I think about it now that I'm seeing these episodes again with Jess' reactions, the more I think that Jenna and Samuel should've been given script input. They were friends in real life IIRC, and whatever chemistry they did have came from that. So I imagine it would've been better developed had they contributed little things to their characters.
I always felt that the awkwardness of Clara and Danny's relationship was deliberate. They were never intended to be the perfect couple, because in fact, Danny was almost Clara's 'rebound' boyfriend. In 'Deep Breath', Vastra points out to Clara that the Doctor is the same eternal being he has always been, and that it's only now that his physical appearance has changed (making him less attractive as a potential partner to her) that she must move on in her relationship with him. It's crucial to the story that Vastra DIDN'T mention any of this to the Doctor himself, as the rest of the season is about the disparity between Clara and the Doctor, regarding their own relationship with each other. So S8 is all about the Doctor struggling to adjust to how his relationship with Clara has changed, while Clara herself is, at least superficially, trying to form a 'normal' relationship with someone more 'appropriate' to her (i.e. someone who is a) nearer in age and outlook and b) actually the same species as her). As for this episode, Clara doesn't particularly want to save Danny because she loves him so much, she wants to save Danny because she is the only one who CAN (albeit with the Doctor's help). It's this arrogance, hinted at in 'Flatline' and expanded upon in S9 that is driving her actions. Not so much a distraught, broken hearted lover who has lost her soulmate, as a spoilt child - 'Well, I'm GOING to the afterlife, and there's nothing you can do to stop me' - throwing a tantrum. I have to confess, on first viewing, I wasn't a huge fan of S8. Now, after re-watching a number of times, and with the benefit of hindsight that came with the wonderful S9, I have discovered so much more to the relationships between the characters, and the subtle way it all meshes together :)
Yeah, I said a couple weeks ago during the "Flatline" reaction that it would've been better if Danny had just been Clara's rebound from the start, since the emotion here that they want us to feel is entirely unearned. But I don't agree that she is saving him out of arrogance. She's not throwing a tantrum or being spoiled. Everyone forgets (partly because the show never reminded us, especially at certain opportunities that it should've) that she Clara lost her mom. She's not close to her dad, and she "lost" the 11th Doctor as well. She also feels guilt for not being the best girlfriend to Danny. So what she's doing is grasping...she's grasping as hard as she can to her earthbound "anchor." She feels guilt at being split between wanting to adventure with the Doctor and "running" from any real feelings for Danny. And when she loses him, she snaps. That's what this is. I have much more to say, but anything more would go into spoiler stuff (especially S9), so I won't.
"Weirdly obsessed with her for somebody I don't know very well" 😆 Yep. That's Missy for you. She's THE ABSOLUTE BEST and I love her and hate her and wish we'd gotten more of her!
While it's never stated, I like the implication that, since they were in a building that was bigger on the inside, most of this episode took place in Missy's TARDIS.
She's treated as her own character because she has basically nothing to do whatsoever with the previous incarnations. She's just too different. I'd argue Missy is a great villain, but a terrible Master.
I can understand that. Personally, I'd say the same for the Master in Series 3 and End of Time. For me, he was too wacky and camp that even Ainley would have said to calm down. But I guess it's fine to have wildly different Masters as there can be wildly different Doctors.
I'm so pleased & exited to see this reaction. I could see you realised a little before other's did at the time that Missy = Master. I've only just noticed that the child Danny killed was standing over his shoulder when he was deciding if he should "Delete", he's in the reflection of the pad. Its taken me 2+ years to notice.
I'm so glad I'm not the only who's annoyed by the fact that Clara would definitely have heard him be hit over the phone!!!! It bugs me EVERY TIME I WATCH THIS EPISODE.
JP Haggerty: Exactly. It was brutal enough to kill the guy. She would have heard several loud bumps and probably a windscreen smashing about 5cm away from Danny's phone. It should have been deafeningly loud.
Missy left a hint before the reveal, when she said 'the one you left for dead.. didn't you think I would find my way back?" The master was fighting the timelords who were trying to return when 10 was about the renegerate..
At the time I felt as you did: that Clara’s reaction to Danny’s death seemed over the top considering how seemingly underdeveloped the writers had drawn their relationship. But now I think the relationship just was tenuous all along, and that Clara’s reaction was therefore driven as much by guilt as by grief.
"I'm so dumb" - Jess, you are probably one of the few that caught on quicker than a lot of people I've seen. Some people I've seen didn't guess until the reveal :D I thought she was a classic Doctor Who Time Lady called the Rani if it helps (They even filmed a fake reveal scene where she revealed herself to be the Rani). But oh my god, I've been waiting for this. Not disappointed. This episode was pretty dark, especially the "Don't cremate me" line. Years on, I still get goosebumps from the Master reveal!
Now it is time we can talk about Missy. One of my favourite character in doctor who. I know it would not happen but I really wanted a doctor who spinoff where Missy is the main protagonist.
khanalprabhat There's a chance Big Finish could do a boxset with her, after all they released The War Master with Derek Jacobi's Master a couple of months ago
Without wanting to spoil the finale, I'd argue that the point of Clara and Danny is that they never quite work, even though they genuinely do love and care for each other. They never quite click before Dark Water, largely because Clara is never able to be fully honest with Danny (who, as we see in this episode, has baggage of his own). I'd argue that's why Clara's so desperate to be with Danny in this episode - not because they're "star crossed lovers" who are perfect for each other, but because she screwed up, *she knows she screwed up*, and she wants to put things right.
Hello! Brilliant video.. My mam passed not so many days ago and to distract myself I turned back to your doctor who reactions. So many thanks.. Pointless little fact for you. All the best luff
This is a great episode. My one of my favourite thinks is the attention to detail Doctor Who has. The shot of the Cybermen walking down the stair in front of St Paul's in London. Is a reenactment of a scene in the second Doctors run, the episode The Invasion. It's brilliant paying tribute to the past with the new Cybermen doing the same thing.
Welcome to my second favorite DW character (Donna will always be number 1 in my heart). I love her so much (by love i mean the same way I love Bellatrix 😂)
"Imagine you could upload dying minds to that. Edit them. Rearrange them. Get rid of all those boring emotions. Ready to be re-downloaded. Meanwhile, you upgrade the bodies. Upload the mind, upgrade the body. Cybermen from cyberspace. Now, why has no-one ever thought of that before? " Now is she talking about making the Cybermen...or the concept of regeneration in general?
I always thought that regeneration made more sense if it was the downloading of the Time Lord mind into a pre-existing Gallifreyan vessel body. That would explain why regeneration feels like death and the new incarnations often identify as different people.
They did stick some easter eggs in early episodes to hint that missy was the master. I figured that out with the dalek episode for the fact that the compression device was an actual weapon of the masters in the older series.
Because they are inconsiderate, self absorbed and want to be the first person to tell people things or are the kind of arse gravy that likes to spoil the surprise for others.
I dread it when anyone gives any type of spoiler, no matter how little they think it is. "Oh it's just a gif!" "It's just a hint!" "It's just a quote!". No. It doesn't matter if /you/ think it's not a big deal. People are smart and can connect things, or remember old things said/showed to them. It affects the reactor who's entire goal is to react and experience things fresh and new, and when you do any type of spoiling, it's pretty much thievery of a reaction. Thankfully, Sesska wasn't able to remember till the last minute, but still. It's so dang unnecessary for people to do it.
Some people are just assholes who get a thrill ruining things for others. I remember a news story ages ago when the movie The Sixth Sense came out. Someone had either gotten an early screening or found the script online and drove to movie theaters screaming what the ending was with the excuse of "It amused me and I saved people time and money!" But with social media these asshats can do it without leaving the house.
This is what a reaction the this episode should be like. Unfortunately the presence of the Cybermen in the finale was spoilt for us before the series even aired. Luckily Missy's identity was kept a secret even though a lot of people, myself included, had guessed that she'd be the Master.
Don't worry....very, very few people saw the connection between Clara and Danny. But I think they missed a golden opportunity to remind the viewers that Clara's mom died, she doesn't have the best relationship with her dad, so literally all she has is the Doctor and Danny. It would've gone some way to bridge that gap and explain why she snapped.
I'd like to point out that this was the first 2-parter since _The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People._ That was before we even found out River Song's true identity.
One of the better episodes of Season 8, imo. You are not dumb, Jess. Stop putting yourself down! I am just disappointed that someone spoilt it for you with spoilers. I loved it when your eyes were filling with tears and you and the Doctor were almost interacting with each other! I have noticed that the Clara haters are now out in force. Yeah, Clara was losing the plot with grief and thought the Doctor could change history, like Amy did in the episode "Amy's Choice", when Rory turned into a pile of dust, but the Clara haters show little sympathy for someone's loss and they use every excuse under the sun to hate her. Personally, I like Clara's unique relationship with the Doctor. Like you, Jess, I wasn't convinced about the romantic relationship between Danny and Clara. It was almost forced, although I do believe Danny cared for Clara, I think he was a distraction for her. In that episode and the next, Clara and Danny's relationship comes to a conclusion. *You can guess that it doesn't end well.* After all, Danny is already deceased. I wasn't convinced they had a future together, especially as Clara was lying to both Danny and the Doctor. Missy is as nutty as a squirrel's farts. She is as mad as a hatter, but she's brilliantly played by Michelle Gomez and you will see some more great performances from her. Stay tuned for that! I found the bit where someone kept repeating *"Don't cremate me"* really dark and disturbing. Too dark for a children's TV show. Did you notice the reflection of the little boy that Danny killed in the iPad tablet at the end? Just one more thing. Other viewers have suggested that you watch another BBC TV show called *Merlin.* I highly recommend it! Anthony Head plays King Arthur's father, Uther Pendragon. Lots of love. Take care, Jess and can't wait for your reactions to the next two episodes! xxx PS. A message to critics. This message is spoiler free. I haven't given the plot away and I do not appreciate being told to edit my comments. The internet is littered with spoilers and I am aware it would be difficult for Jess to avoid them, especially as she is more than two seasons behind the rest of us. However, the future is always the next episode and apart from the Christmas Special, Season 8 concluded with a two-part storyline. Jess has watched one half.
Oliver Reeder! The Thick of It is a Doctor Who spin-off confirmed. Confirmation is solidified with Nicola Murray, Dan Miller and Lord Julius Nicholson being Doctor Who characters.
"The one you abandoned, the one you left for dead" Uh no you weren't Master, unless Missy was thinking back to Terserus and assumed Alex MacQueen was The Doctor
Here's a thing I always like pointing out: When RTD brought back the show, he claimed that he was never going to bring back the Master, that he didn't like the Master very much, but it was all a lie to keep the surprise of when he actually brings the character back. Moffat, up to this point, had said in an interview that the Master's story was over and that he had no plans to bring the character back, but... well... It was a lie! Both of them told the same exact lie! And people fell for it both times!
I've been waiting for this reaction for weeks, and you didn't disappoint me! Also, I don't know if you noticed, but in that part when The Doctor says "I feel like I'm missing something obvious" the doors close and the logos form the eyes of a cyberman :')
I love it how Jess says "am I missing something obvious?" exactly a moment after that door with windows shaped like cyberman eyes shuts.
My favorite line in all of new who "do you seriously think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
just a random very intelligent sir. I came here to say that.
The Doctor: "Stop it with the eyes! Don't do that with the eyes!"
Jess: "OKAY I'M SORRY I'M SORRY I'M SORRY!!!!"
InstaBlaster
Finally Missy is out of the bottle and I don’t have to avoid talking about her any more. Michelle Gomez is just so perfect as Missy and any scene with her and Capaldi is just magnetic.
Yes but please restrict it to episodes our esteemed reactor has already seen. Thanks.
Robert Payne I didn’t mention any specific episodes
they are not yelling at you are saying you did anything wrong, it is just she has been spoiled before over a particular moment and we are trying to make sure it doesn't happen again, nothing against you personally.
*or*
Michelle Gomez is just amazing in general. Her stand up is great, and she's brilliant in Sabrina.
Missy’s reveal
PE dies
The “Betraying me” Line
Cybermen
This episode had it all
Too bad the second part didn't live up to expectations like most of Moffat 2 parters
Liam Cahill disagreed I thought Death in Heaven was a great episode. 12 falling to the TARDIS was his most badass moment.
@@morningcoffeecat2271 I actually loved the second part-
12:10 - "Am I missing something obvious?" Yes - the design of the doors is such that when they close, the windows form the shape of a Cyberman face, complete with the distincitive 'teardrop' on the edge of the eyes.
Indeed, plus the music in that part was New Who's distinctive Cybermen leitmotif which i'm pretty sure has been in every New Who Cyberman episode to date.
Zomdra Yeah the music was very easy to notice. And the doors.
Not sure how one can miss it.
"Do you think that I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference."
That's when you finally know for sure how good Capladi's Doctor is.
That's not goodness, that's love. Totally different thing. Many of the most morally despicable people our species has ever produced felt love. Forgiving one you love for betraying you doesn't make you good, just means you love them very much.
**Spoilers**
I just realised the New-Who Cyberman theme plays when The Doctor says he's missing something obvious.
Plus there’s the Cybermen eyes in the door.
Vskits Yeah, there are few things dotted about that hint. I think I only just realised the music since there was no video at that point.
"I feel like im missing something obvious" referred to the doors right then looking like cybermen eyes
Every scene with Michelle Gomez as the Mistress is amazing, you're in for a treat.
Oh boy, hear we go... Missy is the best, she is one of my favorite villains.
“villain..”
idk i consider her a neutral character sometimes. just because she is so inhumanly human.
The beginning of this episode is so well edited :(
Also 6:45 hits deep
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"
I loved that scene and it made me feel a connection extending from 11th to 12th.
Clara has better chemistry with 12th than she had with 11th, but still, considering all the important moments they went through together even while saving Gallafray, and that she was willing to die saving him by jumping into his timeline, plus their adventures after the regeneration into 12th, he is willing to overlook her bad judgement when she is emotionally affected by Danny's dead.
The earliest and clearest indication of how deep 12's feelings for Clara run.
Well, "clearest indication" _so far_ but yep, great line in a great scene. Series 8 and onwards is where Jenna Coleman really gets to show her chops IMO.
The thing to keep in mind with Clara and Danny is that, while she does indeed like and care for him to some extent, she's essentially using him has a scapegoat to deny her full commitment and feelings for the Doctor.
When Danny and that scapegoat is gone, it breaks her a little and she has to confront that, as we see in this episode.
One thing I love about this ep is the set design. Check out the doors with the Cyberman eye/tear motif. Beautiful foreshadowing.
Also, I love the way you apologize for crying when The Doctor says "Stop it, with the eyes. Don't do that with the eyes." Made me laugh :D
Haha great video
*cyberman theme plays*
"Am I missing something obvious?"
Easily the best episode of the season, one of the best episodes of Capaldi's era, and one of the best cliffhangers in the Moffat era. I think Death in Heaven was slightly less good, but Missy was fabulous all the way through both episodes, she's the best incarnation of the Master by a LONG shot in my opinion, so I'm glad you like her so far! Looking forward to the next one :)
Honestly, I'm glad you don't over-analyze things when it comes to the plot. So many reactors do that and miss half the episode because they're too concentrated on their theories, and they end up not really reacting to the episode, but what they think future episodes are going to be like. It can be frustrating.
"Stop It. With the Eyes!" And you responded as if he said it to you is why we are fans of your channel 👍
In promos Missy was credited as
The Gatekeeper of the Nethersphere which is a great title in itself
🎶🎵Hey Missy you're so fine, you're so fine, you blew our minds hey Missy!🎵🎶
"He believed it was a telepathic communication from the dead"
"Why? Was he an idiot?"
And
"Just hurry up or I'll hit you with my shoe"
Are two gems from this episode that I feel are completely underrated
Don't feel too dumb. Most of us didn't get that Missy was The Master ahead of time
MyAbridged I did, I speculated on it in the first episode, and that's not me bragging either, I actually wondered if "missy" was short for mistress.
MyAbridged i didnt lol, she sussed it before i did
It’s usually an endless cycle of “is it RIVER or CLARA or SUSAN????” whenever an unknown female character is added...
Well, to be fair those with a little more knowledge about classic Who had some other options... a lot were speculating on it possibly being the Rani.
The Master was my first guess, but I didn't believe it at the time. I remember thinking "two hearts" at the exact moment the Doctor said it, and I was convinced that she was the Master from that point.
Commenters please think about what you say with your explanations so as to NOT spoil future events.
Just came across this again. "Do you think I care so little for you that betraying me would make a difference?'" Just tears my heart in pieces.
When you started getting emotional at 6:11 I was like "Just wait. It gets even better." I love that scene so much. It makes me tear up every time. I think that's when I started falling in love with Twelve.
One thing i love that im just now noticing is that 12 kind of had a smile for a second that his old friend is alive but then it transforms into sheer panic
"I'm in charge." I LOVE how she says that!
I think the reason a lot of people didn't take to Clara and Danny being a good couple is because we only saw them together in "snippets" i should say, but with Amy and Rory we had a lot of screen time with them together and watched as their relationship grew to where it was.
Eh, I didn't really like Amy and Rory's relationship either, even though I adored Rory. It had the same problem as Clara and Danny, in that they never felt like partners. Moffat seems incapable of writing a couple where they are equals. Even Eleven and River had River slapping the shit out of Eleven constantly and ordering him around, not to mention them lying to each other all the time. That's why, despite it no longer being an acceptable "ship" in the eyes of many fans, I miss the Doctor and Rose. They were partners. They fought, but came back together in understanding every time, and neither of them slapped the other around, lied to the other or treated the other like an inferior on a regular basis. They felt...I dunno...more real. More like people who would actually be in a relationship, rather than Moffat's fevered imaginings of what would be a "cool" pairing.
@@ms_scribbles how u feel about ten & rose, is exactly how i feel about 12 & clara, except i only see them as platonic, whereas we know that ten & rose's relationship was romantic.
i know clara did slap 12 that one time, and they would lie to each other sometimes, but once their relationship had gotten better they were an absolute dream team.
There’s so many reactionable moments from this episode.
Also SO BRILLIANT Moffat finally got his Mary Whitehouse moment in his era
Borgin & Burkes Antiques Shop "Don't cremate me" to all those that complained, grow some thicker skin darlings
Doctor Who needs to do more of this, freak the little s***s out
I love how you slightly hear the masters theme from series 4 at 9:16
Great reaction. Loved it. What you were missing at 12:00, when the door closed and you see the logo mirrored, it's a cyberman face (plus there's a few notes of the 'Lumic Cybermen' theme music played at that moment too).
It just occurred to me how ironic it was that Danny who is known to hate lies from Clara is to forced to perpetuate a lie (that he's not Danny Pink) to save her using the truth (that he loves her)
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" There's not a lot of lines that move me to tears. But that one does it. Such a brutally, introspectively, honest line.
I never really warmed up to Danny, but my reaction was very much like yours when I first saw them kill Danny. DID THEY REALLY JUST DO THAT?
It was one of those 'Holy shit, they just straight up killed him' moments. Doctor Who main character deaths are always really shocking and unexpected like that (and while Danny isn't really a main character, the death fits those parameters)
That was the episode I finally fell in love with Twelve after I struggled the who season to like him.
Man some of the best twists in the series have to do with the Master
To answer your question on how she couldn't hear, some phones have extremely powerful noise cancellation. I was talking to someone on a super windy day with a tonne of traffic right next to me and they didn't know.
1. You're the first person I've watched who figured out the Doctor was saying where to go.
2. Don't be sorry, the whole 'do you think you mean so little' exchange is one heck of a kick in the feels.
Michelle Gomez is amazing!
My other favourite twisty moment was something you missed. Where the Doctor feels he's missing something obvious. The image of the 3W logo was so well established and accepted as representing earth and the nethersphere. So when the image was mirrored on the doubledoors revealing them to be the eyes and tears of the cyberman, my jaw dropped. Like you I knew they were coming back but forgot until that moment.
Complete with the iconic Cybermen theme.
SURPRISE BIATCH! Erm... not you Jess... just like... the whole thing... I'll shut up xD
Torchwood Boy *Cringe
Danny and Clara's relationship was, by design, flawed. From the beginning you could see that communication was always their weak point. Clara refusing to be honest with Danny, etc. So the end of the episode was perfectly consistent with how it was built up.
I think you misinterpreted Clara's intentions at the end when you said "she wants to go be where he is". That's what DANNY thinks, that Clara will die to be with him. But what Clara MEANT was that she and the Doctor would find a way to get to him *so they could bring him back.* So Danny's misunderstanding leads him to purposely say "I love you" because Clara had already threatened to break off the connection if he continued. Clara, on her part, believes that the (real or fake) Danny is *trying* to earn her trust, then concludes that it must be a trick because Danny cannot come up with anything other than "I love you" and so she breaks off the connection. It's actually a brilliant piece of writing.
I don't think either "Clara going to extremes to try to save Danny" or "Danny not wanting Clara to die to be with him" is at ALL inconsistent with the relationship that was depicted throughout this season.
Great! "Stop it with the eyes, don't do that with the eyes". I'll keep it as a regular comment to your reactions
"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" = Moffat said that was the closest the Doctor will ever come to telling someone he loves them.
I don’t know how I haven’t thought of this, but when you finish a show, you should totally start Merlin! That would be super cool to see you react to! Where’s all the merlin fans at?
Gilanes: Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes, hah. Prime time BBC One Saturday night TV (when Doctor Who isn't on, hah). There's lots of us Merlin fans about.
Some Random Guy Haha dont forget Robin Hood as well!!! 😂
YES!!!!
Doctor:"there must be stairs"
Missy:"well I'm not a dalek"
my entire existence has been leading up to this reaction - u didn't disappoint
George Alexander I agree I have been waiting for this reaction since she watched episode 1 of series 8.
Same here. I was meditating peacefully this morning and then realised this had probably been posted, so I was like screw you mental health this is a thing! It's like Christmas...
Shame she got it spoiled. Someone told her the master turns into a woman so she worked it out before the reveal
Agree on Danny and Clara. I was trying not to give spoilers in my comment from a couple weeks ago, but basically the relationship is rushed and unearned. It’s manufactured as a plot device just to reach this point, but it never got there organically on its own merits. I don’t have a problem with the characters, and I like the performances; I think both actors did the best they could with what they had to work with, but it should have been written better.
The more I think about it now that I'm seeing these episodes again with Jess' reactions, the more I think that Jenna and Samuel should've been given script input. They were friends in real life IIRC, and whatever chemistry they did have came from that. So I imagine it would've been better developed had they contributed little things to their characters.
I always felt that the awkwardness of Clara and Danny's relationship was deliberate. They were never intended to be the perfect couple, because in fact, Danny was almost Clara's 'rebound' boyfriend. In 'Deep Breath', Vastra points out to Clara that the Doctor is the same eternal being he has always been, and that it's only now that his physical appearance has changed (making him less attractive as a potential partner to her) that she must move on in her relationship with him. It's crucial to the story that Vastra DIDN'T mention any of this to the Doctor himself, as the rest of the season is about the disparity between Clara and the Doctor, regarding their own relationship with each other.
So S8 is all about the Doctor struggling to adjust to how his relationship with Clara has changed, while Clara herself is, at least superficially, trying to form a 'normal' relationship with someone more 'appropriate' to her (i.e. someone who is a) nearer in age and outlook and b) actually the same species as her).
As for this episode, Clara doesn't particularly want to save Danny because she loves him so much, she wants to save Danny because she is the only one who CAN (albeit with the Doctor's help). It's this arrogance, hinted at in 'Flatline' and expanded upon in S9 that is driving her actions.
Not so much a distraught, broken hearted lover who has lost her soulmate, as a spoilt child - 'Well, I'm GOING to the afterlife, and there's nothing you can do to stop me' - throwing a tantrum.
I have to confess, on first viewing, I wasn't a huge fan of S8. Now, after re-watching a number of times, and with the benefit of hindsight that came with the wonderful S9, I have discovered so much more to the relationships between the characters, and the subtle way it all meshes together :)
Yeah, I said a couple weeks ago during the "Flatline" reaction that it would've been better if Danny had just been Clara's rebound from the start, since the emotion here that they want us to feel is entirely unearned. But I don't agree that she is saving him out of arrogance. She's not throwing a tantrum or being spoiled.
Everyone forgets (partly because the show never reminded us, especially at certain opportunities that it should've) that she Clara lost her mom. She's not close to her dad, and she "lost" the 11th Doctor as well. She also feels guilt for not being the best girlfriend to Danny. So what she's doing is grasping...she's grasping as hard as she can to her earthbound "anchor." She feels guilt at being split between wanting to adventure with the Doctor and "running" from any real feelings for Danny. And when she loses him, she snaps. That's what this is.
I have much more to say, but anything more would go into spoiler stuff (especially S9), so I won't.
@@caomhan84 do u still have much more to say? cause now that it's 3 years later, i'd love to read it :D
"Weirdly obsessed with her for somebody I don't know very well" 😆 Yep. That's Missy for you. She's THE ABSOLUTE BEST and I love her and hate her and wish we'd gotten more of her!
While it's never stated, I like the implication that, since they were in a building that was bigger on the inside, most of this episode took place in Missy's TARDIS.
I remember when Missy was revealed my jaw hit China before I could react so trust me you weren't alone when you reacted the way you did
It’s odd how people treat Missy like her own character and not a continuation.
I hope that doesn’t happen with 13
Borgin & Burkes Antiques Shop I think it’s down to the fact that we never saw a regeneration.
Yet people were quick to accept Eccleston?
She's treated as her own character because she has basically nothing to do whatsoever with the previous incarnations. She's just too different. I'd argue Missy is a great villain, but a terrible Master.
I can understand that. Personally, I'd say the same for the Master in Series 3 and End of Time. For me, he was too wacky and camp that even Ainley would have said to calm down. But I guess it's fine to have wildly different Masters as there can be wildly different Doctors.
I treat her like her own character because she's nothing like the Master. Not even Simm was that much of a cartoon character.
I honestly thought Missy was the Rani until she revealed herself at the end of the episode
I'm so pleased & exited to see this reaction. I could see you realised a little before other's did at the time that Missy = Master. I've only just noticed that the child Danny killed was standing over his shoulder when he was deciding if he should "Delete", he's in the reflection of the pad. Its taken me 2+ years to notice.
I'm so glad I'm not the only who's annoyed by the fact that Clara would definitely have heard him be hit over the phone!!!! It bugs me EVERY TIME I WATCH THIS EPISODE.
JP Haggerty: Exactly. It was brutal enough to kill the guy. She would have heard several loud bumps and probably a windscreen smashing about 5cm away from Danny's phone. It should have been deafeningly loud.
Me checking for this video to be uploaded: I DID MY WAITING...12 YEARS OF IT...IN AZKABAN!
When the Doctor said he was missing something obvious and then the doors shut. The windows on the doors look like cybermen eyes.
Missy left a hint before the reveal, when she said 'the one you left for dead.. didn't you think I would find my way back?" The master was fighting the timelords who were trying to return when 10 was about the renegerate..
Cybermen AND the 'that Lady' reveal, this was much anticipated! That penny was in the air for a long time! lol Wonderful reactions :D
I have been waiting all day for this
ive been waiting FOR THIS ALL WEEK!
SAME!
At the time I felt as you did: that Clara’s reaction to Danny’s death seemed over the top considering how seemingly underdeveloped the writers had drawn their relationship. But now I think the relationship just was tenuous all along, and that Clara’s reaction was therefore driven as much by guilt as by grief.
You’re going to loooooove Missy. She so fine. She blow my mind.
Michelle Gomez's performance as Missy was electrifying
When the Master had first changed into Missy she used the name Sue White and got a job in a hospital, this was chronicled in 'Green Wing'.
"I'm so dumb" - Jess, you are probably one of the few that caught on quicker than a lot of people I've seen. Some people I've seen didn't guess until the reveal :D
I thought she was a classic Doctor Who Time Lady called the Rani if it helps (They even filmed a fake reveal scene where she revealed herself to be the Rani). But oh my god, I've been waiting for this. Not disappointed. This episode was pretty dark, especially the "Don't cremate me" line. Years on, I still get goosebumps from the Master reveal!
Now it is time we can talk about Missy. One of my favourite character in doctor who. I know it would not happen but I really wanted a doctor who spinoff where Missy is the main protagonist.
yep, she only gets better
khanalprabhat There's a chance Big Finish could do a boxset with her, after all they released The War Master with Derek Jacobi's Master a couple of months ago
Yea but they are audio stories. I was talking about video stories like "Class", "Torchwood" and "The adventure of Shara jones".
But she was the best character before this ??
khanalprabhat Audio or no, i still reccomend it, they are just as good
Without wanting to spoil the finale, I'd argue that the point of Clara and Danny is that they never quite work, even though they genuinely do love and care for each other. They never quite click before Dark Water, largely because Clara is never able to be fully honest with Danny (who, as we see in this episode, has baggage of his own). I'd argue that's why Clara's so desperate to be with Danny in this episode - not because they're "star crossed lovers" who are perfect for each other, but because she screwed up, *she knows she screwed up*, and she wants to put things right.
yep, agree.
"Do you think i care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" - if no one weeps at that point, then they officially have no soul.
Oh my word where I have I seen that shot before 19:31
The Invasion.
More than 30 years in the tardis
Hello! Brilliant video..
My mam passed not so many days ago and to distract myself I turned back to your doctor who reactions. So many thanks.. Pointless little fact for you. All the best luff
Sincere condolences on your bereavement.
Your reactions were great too.
So sorry to hear. I was there about a year ago and can more than sympathize. PM if you want to vent. Stay strong
I’m so sorry to hear about your mum :( xx
This is a great episode. My one of my favourite thinks is the attention to detail Doctor Who has. The shot of the Cybermen walking down the stair in front of St Paul's in London. Is a reenactment of a scene in the second Doctors run, the episode The Invasion. It's brilliant paying tribute to the past with the new Cybermen doing the same thing.
Welcome to my second favorite DW character (Donna will always be number 1 in my heart). I love her so much (by love i mean the same way I love Bellatrix 😂)
"Imagine you could upload dying minds to that. Edit them. Rearrange them. Get rid of all those boring emotions. Ready to be re-downloaded. Meanwhile, you upgrade the bodies. Upload the mind, upgrade the body. Cybermen from cyberspace. Now, why has no-one ever thought of that before? "
Now is she talking about making the Cybermen...or the concept of regeneration in general?
I always thought that regeneration made more sense if it was the downloading of the Time Lord mind into a pre-existing Gallifreyan vessel body. That would explain why regeneration feels like death and the new incarnations often identify as different people.
I forgot "dark water" is so linked with the last episodes of 12th DrWho. It's a good thing to review it watching you.
I believe it was 'The Parting of the Ways' when you asked that.
Oh Missy, you so fine~
They did stick some easter eggs in early episodes to hint that missy was the master. I figured that out with the dalek episode for the fact that the compression device was an actual weapon of the masters in the older series.
At least you figured it out before the Doctor did, lol! Or maybe he was just too afraid to admit it after that kiss.
Why do people have to spoil things?
Because they are inconsiderate, self absorbed and want to be the first person to tell people things or are the kind of arse gravy that likes to spoil the surprise for others.
I dread it when anyone gives any type of spoiler, no matter how little they think it is. "Oh it's just a gif!" "It's just a hint!" "It's just a quote!". No. It doesn't matter if /you/ think it's not a big deal. People are smart and can connect things, or remember old things said/showed to them. It affects the reactor who's entire goal is to react and experience things fresh and new, and when you do any type of spoiling, it's pretty much thievery of a reaction. Thankfully, Sesska wasn't able to remember till the last minute, but still. It's so dang unnecessary for people to do it.
Robert Payne Most of them are, but her description of the situation makes it sound far more innocent.
Some people are just assholes who get a thrill ruining things for others. I remember a news story ages ago when the movie The Sixth Sense came out. Someone had either gotten an early screening or found the script online and drove to movie theaters screaming what the ending was with the excuse of "It amused me and I saved people time and money!" But with social media these asshats can do it without leaving the house.
I'm here to tell you, the Christmas special is amazing. One of the best!
Missy: how may I assist you with your death. - Nobody: - - Jess: I love your hatttttttt
*in a nature documentary voice* She doesn't know it, but she has properly met her favorite character.
The whole series summed up in one sentence..........now you can do the eyes thing.
She looks absolutely fire here! 🔥
This is what a reaction the this episode should be like. Unfortunately the presence of the Cybermen in the finale was spoilt for us before the series even aired. Luckily Missy's identity was kept a secret even though a lot of people, myself included, had guessed that she'd be the Master.
Good god, you were in a good mood this episode! Your reactions were livelier than usual, and your usual is quite lively indeed!
Electroshock Therapy for the Soul It's just a good episode.
You mean, nobody spoiled it? FOR LITERALLY YEARS??????? Wow, congratulations, I´d say! You have a damn solid fandom, girl!....
Hey there Sesskasaya it is Claire here I just wanted to say that I love watching your reaction videos
Don't worry....very, very few people saw the connection between Clara and Danny. But I think they missed a golden opportunity to remind the viewers that Clara's mom died, she doesn't have the best relationship with her dad, so literally all she has is the Doctor and Danny. It would've gone some way to bridge that gap and explain why she snapped.
I felt really bad seeing the doctor betrayed by Clara. Love the doctor words. Love Missy!!!! Crazy Michelle Gómez, wonderful work.
I'd like to point out that this was the first 2-parter since _The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People._ That was before we even found out River Song's true identity.
One of the better episodes of Season 8, imo. You are not dumb, Jess. Stop putting yourself down! I am just disappointed that someone spoilt it for you with spoilers. I loved it when your eyes were filling with tears and you and the Doctor were almost interacting with each other!
I have noticed that the Clara haters are now out in force. Yeah, Clara was losing the plot with grief and thought the Doctor could change history, like Amy did in the episode "Amy's Choice", when Rory turned into a pile of dust, but the Clara haters show little sympathy for someone's loss and they use every excuse under the sun to hate her.
Personally, I like Clara's unique relationship with the Doctor.
Like you, Jess, I wasn't convinced about the romantic relationship between Danny and Clara. It was almost forced, although I do believe Danny cared for Clara, I think he was a distraction for her.
In that episode and the next, Clara and Danny's relationship comes to a conclusion. *You can guess that it doesn't end well.* After all, Danny is already deceased. I wasn't convinced they had a future together, especially as Clara was lying to both Danny and the Doctor.
Missy is as nutty as a squirrel's farts. She is as mad as a hatter, but she's brilliantly played by Michelle Gomez and you will see some more great performances from her.
Stay tuned for that!
I found the bit where someone kept repeating *"Don't cremate me"* really dark and disturbing.
Too dark for a children's TV show.
Did you notice the reflection of the little boy that Danny killed in the iPad tablet at the end?
Just one more thing. Other viewers have suggested that you watch another BBC TV show called *Merlin.* I highly recommend it! Anthony Head plays King Arthur's father, Uther Pendragon.
Lots of love. Take care, Jess and can't wait for your reactions to the next two episodes! xxx
PS. A message to critics. This message is spoiler free. I haven't given the plot away and I do not appreciate being told to edit my comments. The internet is littered with spoilers and I am aware it would be difficult for Jess to avoid them, especially as she is more than two seasons behind the rest of us. However, the future is always the next episode and apart from the Christmas Special, Season 8 concluded with a two-part storyline. Jess has watched one half.
Oliver Reeder! The Thick of It is a Doctor Who spin-off confirmed. Confirmation is solidified with Nicola Murray, Dan Miller and Lord Julius Nicholson being Doctor Who characters.
EAT THE CHEESE NICHOLSON
I will not eat the pissy biscuit.
Now we just need Glenn to pop along...
Adam Or Terri.
Or that creepy Steve Fleming guy...
Slightly gutted that you clocked Missy was the Master before the reveal. I would have loved to have seen you freak out like fandomreactions did!!!
That moment where he says "Do you really think that would make a difference" was the moment he really nailed the Doctor for me.
"The one you abandoned, the one you left for dead" Uh no you weren't Master, unless Missy was thinking back to Terserus and assumed Alex MacQueen was The Doctor
or to be left behind at the end of the "Time War", I mean they did only deal with it in the 50th
There is precisely no reason to feel stupid for having avoided spoilers, Sess. It's a victory, for you and for us.
Here's a thing I always like pointing out:
When RTD brought back the show, he claimed that he was never going to bring back the Master, that he didn't like the Master very much, but it was all a lie to keep the surprise of when he actually brings the character back. Moffat, up to this point, had said in an interview that the Master's story was over and that he had no plans to bring the character back, but... well... It was a lie! Both of them told the same exact lie! And people fell for it both times!
I've been waiting for this reaction for weeks, and you didn't disappoint me! Also, I don't know if you noticed, but in that part when The Doctor says "I feel like I'm missing something obvious" the doors close and the logos form the eyes of a cyberman :')