Excellent. The most comprehensive explanation I have seen of the design considerations and why you should buy an original Land Rover part. Thank you very much!
As a mechanically inclined person who trusts science more than religion and wishful thinking I can comfortably say you guys make my day with every video I watch on this channel! Vielen Dank for showing and sharing your knowledge with us Kristian! And Vera - with you on the videos the cheerful picture is complete. Keep it up guys - I'm becoming a masive fan of your content. Oh - and by the way it was your channel that cleared my doubts wether I should get a 2.7 Now I know what my next car will be. So my E65 BMW goes for sale tomorrow :) gut gemacht ihr beide
👍👌 When we replaced it the first time. It was in the middle of Corona and parts were extremly expensive or just not available. Today , everything is much easier again. 🙋♀️
@ I have a Land Rover freelander TD4 and I think it may need the viscous coupling replaced. I have to replace one of the support bearings on that anyway but not sure how to test the coupling properly. Any suggestions welcome. I saw someone had replaced the coupling with a unit that allowed selection of 4WD or 2WD manually. Do you know if such a unit is available for purchase? Thanks
I am one of the engineers who put this propshaft into the T5/Discovery 3 , working with GKN. The single piece propshaft was considered but to achieve the same bending moments as the 2 piece design would have required a 5" or 127mm shaft. This was not possible with respect to packaging. The diaphragm which failed on your propshaft was specifically engineered again with refinement in mind and to isolate driving vibration from the vehicle structure. Both decisions contributed to Discovery 3's excellent refinement.
Thank you for commenting on this video. I did not understand why GKN build a 2-piece propshaft with a CV joint on one end and a universal joint on the other end. This is quite unusual. The universal joint runs in a straight line in order to not cause any changes in velocity. I can only think of cost reduction for doing this. A GKN plunging CV joint costs much more than a simple universal joint. I fully understand that this application could not be solved within the given realestate with a single piece propshaft. Overall, I think the design is quite good. There are other high end SUVs with similar center bearing problems, such as the Porsche Cayenne, which uses a IFA-Rotorion product. Christian
@@Vera_and_Christian I remember now that another reason the single piece design could not succeed was because it would limit the vehicles break over angle or. It's ability to drive over a 'hump backed bridge'. For a LR product , one should not do anything that limited off road ability.
@@Vera_and_Christian then you will maybe like my video today at 5pm CET a lot. :-). The exchange of the center bearing is something i was planning for filming at my car, but you will be probably faster and better at it. BUUUT I got an automatic gearbox, which opens oportunities for me again :D :P CU then, take care
Morning Guys. Hope you're both well 😄 It was like being in school today lol 😂 But how intriguing was that 👍🏻 We all want cheap and China are masters at giving us that without the quality we need 🙄 Vera is so cute 😍 x 😎🇬🇧
Thank you for explaining!!!! Fascinating that we can get a better explanation on how systems work from folks like you rather than the dealer. Shame on you dealers.
Mechanical lectures spoken in a German accent have an authority that is unrivaled by any other nationality. All of us viewers around the world are just sitting nodding and quietly saying, "Yes, Herr Professor," accepting everything you say without question...
Awesome video. I mentioned on the last video that I also just replaced my drive shaft. I bought an OEM because of everything you just explained👍🏻 Very cool, well done. Also, your son is a chip off the old block! Congrats.
This was fascinating. I learnt loads thank you! You are great at explaining things! The word you were looking for when describing playing a guitar was strumming. Keep the videos coming
Very interesting comparison regarding the weight but maybe the missing OEM solid rubber bush could equal 0.5 kg? Your LR has now truly been re-TUNED. I absolutely love your channel because of your personalities and also in many ways it mirrors my work on my SL320 which on most occasions gets new parts like suspension bushes and bearings before they fail to future proof the car and my driving fun.
I guess the problem with the potential 616gmm imbalance is that this load will be transferred to the axle flange , which will cause increased wear on those bearings requiring early (and probably very expensive) replacement. Since this is all caused by the shaft having up to 0.135 mm of "play" could you shim or sleeve the shaft so it is exactly centred on the axle flange before you bolt it in? It wont fix the 200gmm residual imbalance but it could make sure the 416gmm is reduced as far as possible? Love all your videos, you are an excellent teacher and love the fact that Vera allows you to test her, you make a great team and I wish you all the best.
I had exactly the same failures on my ‘04 Cayenne, this shaft looks near identical except the plunger. I got a Chinese special for £199 and a 5 year warranty. Mine has now been on over 2 years and still good. Best wishes to you both, Peter
You know this is really one of your best videos, speaking as a fan. I learnt so much! If I remember right, you fixed the worn bearing with a replacement and had the fun of taking the joint apart, or was that somebody else? Your video is a great way to explain why when you design something from first principles you understand why, but if you copy something, you don’t have a clue. Keep up the good work.
Great video it's good that your good lady is keen to learn. You must like the Landrover Discovery, I have 2 Defender 110's and 3 Unimogs. Love your tidy workshop 👍🏼
What can some German Dude und deine Frauen tell us about drive shafts? A WHOLE HECK OFF A LOT !!! Very much grateful. Like the video. Good stuff. 2013 LR2 (US) shuddering badly on acceleration at highway speeds under load. Gets to established speed then perfectly smooth. Coasting, light aceleration, smooth. No noises! (Except low rumble of the shuddering vibrations) Light driving in parking lot no problems detected no noises, no grinding. Thinking some flex disc or coupling on drive shafts? Or should I try to test CV joints. Any experience from anywhere appreciated. Vielen Dank mein Freunde!
This is my favorite LR Time video. Interesting, funny. I love the bells and buzzers when Vera's talking, and Robin's craftsmanship is really cool. Is his stuff for sale?.
Hello Rob, appreciate your comment. This was actually a difficult video even if the video footage was non technical and all at one spot. I got 3 hours of content and had to cut lots of it out and still resulted in a +20 min video. I also covered various joint types and shaft typs but found that it will not be interesting for most viewers.
LR TIME Germans sound a bit like Us Irish except as they say give a German a simple thing and he will manage to over complicate it but give a Paddy a simple job and he will make a balls of it 😜
Great video, it comes just in time for my disco 3, I'll wait for your return after you've done a few kilometres. Your explanations are excellent. If you give so many explanations on all the parts of the LR3 it promises a long and happy time.
Gives me the heeby-jeebies seeing a propshaft with a UJ at ONE end. I was under the impression that UJs need to articulate in order to avoid continuously applying force to one point in each of the pivots, eventually squeezing any grease away from that point and causing wear. Conversely, when a UJ articulates the force is applied to a different point in each pivot as the propshaft spins, which squeezes the grease around inside the pivot and ensures every part of the pivot is lubricated. Having said that, if your OEM propshaft lasted 220,000km with no wear to the UJ, I guess wear on the UJ wasn't a problem. Nice to know LR CAN make reliable UJs after all. On the last Defender I had, the service manual said the propshaft should be greased every 1,000 miles (!) and, since I was travelling 700 miles every week it meant that I had to get underneath the vehicle and grease the propshafts EVERY weekend... which wasn't fun.
One of the diesel dyno cells at my work was eating up prop shafts like a dog chews a toy. The yokes cracked apart creating impressive destruction. The harmonic damper on the absorber had failed. These were big joints as well (Spicer 5-280X).
I follow a channel where 1 older irish pair documents their things - for multiple reasons. I was 1 day caught by surprise when the man of that pair displayed unexpected drumming skills. Similar feeling to when observing cheetah to stop chase down his prey in order to train the little waltz he memorized yesterday. Same here - I am really taken by surprise by what you are revealing here, Christian. I know you are car engineer (or designer or...). Still - all these awesome details were surprising. And very well explained. +1.
He is actually a balancing expert, world wide, for probshafts, driveshafts, axles and almost everything that rotates in a vehicle. So that topic was right up his alley. 😅👍🙋♀️Vera
Ahh the dreaded “death wobble” many many videos on this subject. Mostly on Jeep’s, but even my 2004 Chevy truck is developing this. Many front end parts can wear out causing this. Best of luck
Oh dear. My local garage recently changed our prop shaft and can't even tell us what brand it is. Maybe I should go down there and ask them all about their plunging joints and g/mm of unbalance. Fortunately, can't feel anything in the car so probably ok :D. Another great video, love watching you guys.
Awesome explanation, you’ve missed your goal in life, you should become a teacher. German engineering at it’s best. Special thanks to Vera with her female explanation about the feelings and the rubbing, Things very important to both man, women and driveshafts. Can’t wait for the next one. Love you guys
Thanks for your comment on Christians part 👍💪. I am driving a Freelander, it feels like driving a Tractor compared to the Disco, so I am used to a lot of driving noise 😂. But I am actually very sensitive to unusual noises or vibrations. Sometimes, Christian has to take the car on a short test drive when it feels off to me 😄.🙋♀️ Vera
I hope I never had to replace mine, but I love the vids and content you make! Shame the centre bearing just can't be replaced, so you can keep the OE shaft..
Great video as per usual, had the pleasure of replacing the Center bearing on my friends ‘05 RR sport last week, bit of a pain in the ass but very doable. Also had the pleasure of replacing rear ball joints, removing the body and replacing turbo while the body is off .....! 😬 great fun though as ye could imagine due all the LR repair adventure ye have ...!
We couldn't change the center bearing unfortunately, that boot did not come off, at all. When we have more time, we will give it another try. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
LR TIME The cv booth is removable but it is a schmerzen im arsch , you have to chisel off the old booth carefully and then with a round ended chisel tap it back into the grove , it’s very similar to putting an inner cv booth on an old Peugeot or Renault.
@@billytremoloband7456 We have of tried to remove it. Christian is very capable and even works closely with propshaft manufacturers. I think he knows what he is doing. We were not willing to destroy a 1000€ shaft just for RUclips entertainment, we are not sponsored by anyone 😉, or even earn money worth talking about with youtube. But like I wrote there will be more to come. 😃👍🙋♀️ Vera
LR TIME Totally understand not wanting to possibly destroy a 1000€ shaft ...! With the Lr stuff sometimes you have to be a bit rough and ready though 😬 to take things apart....! To be honest I’m very impressed with the work he is doing on the landys ! This is coming from someone 23 years Working as a mechanic and spend a few years in a JLR dealership! To be honest I would run a mile from a lot of the tasks ye have takin on and completed successfully! Ye are LR legends in my opinion! Keep the great work!
Awesome as always. Question. Why did you not just replace the bearing or easier use a two piece rubber mount that can be put on without removing prop. As you found out, the actual bearing & UJs were all good. I ask as my rubber has a small split so looking to do shortly.
The protective rubber boot of the center joint is not available separately as a spare and it’s not possible to remove the boot without damage. Christian
You both rock! Vera is so patient and sweet and you master it all. Great to learn and know more things about our Lands and keep away from those chinese stuff. Keep it up!
How you doing? After see thia video I wonder about lubrication of the joints. Have you ever put grease in the moving joints of the shafts? Does the Discovery have maintenace plan for it?
I'm having huge vibrations due to faulty rear propshaft, wich brand would u choose from between ? Eurodriveline NTY GSP Thanks for ur videos and advice
Hi I think you do a great informative presentation on RUclips, I am interested in the Chinese prop shaft you bought and fitted , is it still working ok with no issues and if so could you please give me a link and part number to the site you bought it from . Kind regards Gary
On our prop shaft, the boot could not be taken appart without causing damage. You see it in the video. And that boot cannot be purchased as a spare part, unfortunately. Others have taken it off, but we also do not believe that you get it to seal properly again. However, Christian is a propshaft specialist, working closely with the manufacturer. We are not done with that shaft, but somehow so many projects keep coming up that we haven't had the time to adress the shaft again. Our cheap Chinese shaft has holding up for almost two years now. 👍💪🙋♀️Vera
I am a disco 3 owner and maintainer. Love your videos, especially the engine build. I have done many jobs on mine most recently the dual mass flywheel. I must ask you why not just change the centre bearing on the lovely gkn propshaft?
Have you tried it yet? Let me know if you are able to, without ruining the center boot itself, which is not abailable as a spare part (It should be). Our propshaft has been exposed to the elements for 16 years now, there was no chiseling it down like other RUclipsrs did. And we do believe that it will not seal up 100% long term. We have made a second video . ruclips.net/video/sSoDLaB3oUU/видео.html 😃👍🙋♀️ Vera
Hello thank you a lot for your wonderfull work. I know mine is not a discovery but is a Range Rover L322 wich is a Land Rover. I had to replace the center bearing on the rear drive shaft, Then I noticed that the UJ is completly seized. This UJ's don't have a circlip to hold them in place not even the grouve for the circlip like the older LR's. This one are studded with stitches. Do you think that is possible to repalce the UJ? Maybe with a weld drop? Or is a bad idea?
No, its a crimped joint. Just get a new drive shaft made in China for 130 Euro. They work ok and are a lot less than the GKN OEM shaft. We run ours now for two years with no issue. Christian
some Australian Ford Falcons had aluminium tailshafts (as we call 'em) and were speed limited to 180kph, otherwise they have a tendency to explode catastrophically
Very interesting video thank you both, particularly for someone like me who has just replaced my rear prop with an aftermarket part on my beloved disco 4. However, would it be fair to say that you focus on the worst case scenario here? As you say, comfort depends on misalignment of the rotating mass, and it depends on the vector multiplication of the cumulative imbalance including both mounting points. The offset you measured for the mounting to the differential should probably be /2, same for the transfer box since you assume maximum possible misalignment currently, and you are assuming oem is perfect and comparing to it as if it were a perfect part, which is not really true. I admit, i have vested interest in this being the case!! 😅 But would that be fair to say? Thanks
Christian is a renowned balancing specialist working with all the big companies in this business, worldwide. He has forgotten more about balancing than most will ever know. 😅👍 We installed a aftermarket probshaft due to limited and unreasonable expensive OEM parts during Covid 19 lockdown, when this happened. Christian also works with the OEM supplier for this propshaft. The aftermarket did not last long and we have installed the original OEM back, and just replaced the center bearing. We may reveal how did that in the future. But it was the only choice we had back then.👍🙋♀️
Christian a quick question if I may, why not just replace the center bearing (LR037028 from RockAuto in not so USA). love the channel cheers Paul Victoria BC
Hello sir I'm Adel from Jordan (Middle East ).. could you right all what you explained about driveshaft in these video to be able shown under the screen ..because I want to write it to note book and check all your lesson's by back to my book in mathematics' and physics I have some degree in communication's .. when you talking about resonant frequency I know these what mean .. thank you sir .
We can, it's very tricky. You can buy a two piece bearing, but it costs almost as much as a new OEM propshaft. Check this video, but we do not show the most important part. We should, since it's been holding up so far.ruclips.net/video/IQdxCXm3rgM/видео.htmlsi=T3QD9IS0fKSXZeEP 🤔😃👍🙋♀️
Is it cheap and possible to have this out of specification size issue corrected with weld and lathe turning / cutting? I suppose the answer relies on the item purchase cost difference, plus the engineering fee to bead weld and turn down to the correct size / fit; plus availability of this engineering work locally.
Hello. Without the Rubber didnt the car whable? Mine is making whable and i think its propshaft but if you say that you didnt notice the missing Rubber i am Lost. Best regards
We did not not notice any vibration. Just a bit of a clonking during shift but hard to associate it to the bearing. It Maybe different on a automatic. Christian
Danke für das Video... Du bist woh ein Fachmann für die Kardanwellenfertigung 😁 Bei mir ist nun auch das Mittellager auch defekt. Ich wollte erst eine Kardanwelle aus dem Zubehör kaufen. Nun habe ich die OEM gekauft - da ich mehr sicherheit haben wollte. Allerdings bin ich unsicher ob diese auch tatsächlich immer noch sehr gut ist. Du hast erwähnt, die wird nun auch nicht mehr in England gefertig - sondern in Polen. Hoffentlich taugt das weiterhin... Ich werde diese nächste Woche einbauen, dann weiß ich mehr...
@@Vera_and_Christian Ja, das habe ich gesehen. Sagt mal bescheid ob der Kleber für die Kappe hält 😊 Ich überlege ein Presswerkzeug zu fräsen, damit man die Kappe wieder verpressen kann... Müsste eigentlich gehen... Wenn ich die alte in der Hand habe, überlege ich mir was 🤗
@@Doktorvollcrass 👍Das verpressen ist der ausschlaggebende Schritt ob die Sache hält, nicht der Kleber. Unsere Methode hat soweit gehalten und werden das wahrscheinlich in einem Video demnächst zeigen. 🙋♀
@@Vera_and_Christian is that bearing on the bench a possible repair part? Ive had thoughts of having the center bearing rubber recast with polyethylene.
Nice video but you can just buy a center hanger bearing replacement and keep your oem drive shaft its a easy process if you have some tools my transmission just got rebuilt shop found my center hanger bearing or rubber holding on the bearing worn out he bought a surf drive shaft with good center hanger bearing, I wished he called me b4 replacing it replacing center hanger bearing very easy. Job
Hi l have been following the pair of you since day 1 - l have a Disco 3 where did you buy your prop shaft? Although English l live in France since Brexit buying parts from the U.K. for my LR has now become just so expensive - lm getting a serious short judder when trying to climb up my steep drive lm really hoping it’s not torque converter or a diff - car runs perfect on the straight - lm hoping it’s the prop shaft joints car has been well serviced regular and gearbox flushed at 140k miles
When the parts are too expensive, then we don't buy OEM. That is just the way it is with a car that breaks regularely. That is what we try to show with our videos, that you can drive this car without it becoming a money pit. We also do not have a GAP tool, 600€ is just too expensive. I hope you find your source of judder 👍🙋♀️ Vera
It is not an easy fix. You have to get the center bearing out of the propshaft, and that is the problem we were having. The protective boot that is crimped over the joint will get damaged during removal. On our propshaft, that boot sits tight and did not move a bit at all. So we believe if we apply more force, it will get damaged and not seal tight anymore after we put the propshaft back together. That particular boot should be offered as a spare part with the center bearing. We know other people have replaced just the center bearing, but they probably did not have any problems removing the boot in the first place. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
The u-joint has a different size cross and it is crimped in place. I still have the GKN shaft and when I visit their plant next time (from work) then I will ask to get a new boot and center bearing. Christian
Thanks for great informative video, but,why,why do they put the flimsy rubber suspension at the joint? They all fail, ruins the longevity of the prop shaft, I replaced mine for £39, still ok after one year. Thanks again you two
Land Rover L319 LR3/4, L319 Discovery3/4, L320 Range Rover Sport Driveshaft Center Support Bearing Carrier Upgrade Nice upgrade without buying new drive line much cheaper than buy new drive line
@@Vera_and_Christian I meant the 0,25mm looseness on the one end of the prop shaft, if it was possible to shim it somehow (without taking it apart). Like the high-tech equivalent of wrapping it with silver foil around the edge :D This would position it closer to the middle, but I am not sure how it would be done.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
“Rubbing on a cable in a Discovery is no good; it is already no good” lol. You guys are great! Vera is an absolute Angel!
Thanks ❤️
That was pure genius...as a physicist I was gripped.
Great video and presentation from over the pond ))))) 🇬🇧 Stay safe over there our German friends
Thanks, you stay safe too 👍🙋♀️ Vera
Excellent. The most comprehensive explanation I have seen of the design considerations and why you should buy an original Land Rover part. Thank you very much!
I love lectures with Dr Discovery. Christian doesn't gloat about trying to be right but he adds a great discussion point and explanation
Who knew a propshaft could be such fun 😉. I do like watching your content though, you're a good team.
Thank you very much. We like doing them.
As a mechanically inclined person who trusts science more than religion and wishful thinking I can comfortably say you guys make my day with every video I watch on this channel! Vielen Dank for showing and sharing your knowledge with us Kristian! And Vera - with you on the videos the cheerful picture is complete. Keep it up guys - I'm becoming a masive fan of your content. Oh - and by the way it was your channel that cleared my doubts wether I should get a 2.7 Now I know what my next car will be. So my E65 BMW goes for sale tomorrow :) gut gemacht
ihr beide
😅👍🙋♀️Vera
The engineering & physics are great, but the chemistry between you guys is the best. Practical, informing, but above all - Entertaining!!!
Vera you are a star - you just keep on smiling and adding explanations!!
😊👍🙋♀️ Vera
Love you guys👌I like the way you make it all look so straightforward 👌
This is a great explanation why German engineers and their engineering is so good!
Thx for the lesson of good information.
❤️🇺🇦🇭🇷🇮🇱🇺🇦❤️
Brilliantly explained.
It is why OEM is necessary
👍👌 When we replaced it the first time. It was in the middle of Corona and parts were extremly expensive or just not available. Today , everything is much easier again. 🙋♀️
@ I have a Land Rover freelander TD4 and I think it may need the viscous coupling replaced.
I have to replace one of the support bearings on that anyway but not sure how to test the coupling properly.
Any suggestions welcome.
I saw someone had replaced the coupling with a unit that allowed selection of 4WD or 2WD manually.
Do you know if such a unit is available for purchase?
Thanks
Never knew driveshaft could be SO complicated, thank you.
I am one of the engineers who put this propshaft into the T5/Discovery 3 , working with GKN. The single piece propshaft was considered but to achieve the same bending moments as the 2 piece design would have required a 5" or 127mm shaft. This was not possible with respect to packaging.
The diaphragm which failed on your propshaft was specifically engineered again with refinement in mind and to isolate driving vibration from the vehicle structure.
Both decisions contributed to Discovery 3's excellent refinement.
Thank you for commenting on this video. I did not understand why GKN build a 2-piece propshaft with a CV joint on one end and a universal joint on the other end. This is quite unusual. The universal joint runs in a straight line in order to not cause any changes in velocity. I can only think of cost reduction for doing this. A GKN plunging CV joint costs much more than a simple universal joint.
I fully understand that this application could not be solved within the given realestate with a single piece propshaft. Overall, I think the design is quite good. There are other high end SUVs with similar center bearing problems, such as the Porsche Cayenne, which uses a IFA-Rotorion product. Christian
@@Vera_and_Christian I remember now that another reason the single piece design could not succeed was because it would limit the vehicles break over angle or. It's ability to drive over a 'hump backed bridge'.
For a LR product , one should not do anything that limited off road ability.
good video ... and wow that got technical
Thanks 😃🙋♀️ Vera
Plunging joints! Who wouldn't want a plunging joint 😉 👍
LOL. 😂
Anyone else find this mesmerising? You sir are a very smart man and Vers is amazing 👍👍
😊 Thanks Stuart. 🙋♀️ Vera
I just love your mechanical, engineering explanations!!!
Like usual Far, far far above the usual YT stuff on here! Great work!
Thanks. We liked your tensioner video too.
@@Vera_and_Christian then you will maybe like my video today at 5pm CET a lot. :-). The exchange of the center bearing is something i was planning for filming at my car, but you will be probably faster and better at it. BUUUT I got an automatic gearbox, which opens oportunities for me again :D :P CU then, take care
@@Altblechschrauber I will be the first to watch your video!
Love these more technical videos. Keep up the awesome content.
Morning Guys. Hope you're both well 😄 It was like being in school today lol 😂 But how intriguing was that 👍🏻 We all want cheap and China are masters at giving us that without the quality we need 🙄 Vera is so cute 😍 x 😎🇬🇧
Excellent explanation of how the mechanics of a propshaft can contribute to NHV in a vehicle,
Thanks!
Thank you for explaining!!!! Fascinating that we can get a better explanation on how systems work from folks like you rather than the dealer. Shame on you dealers.
Thanks, he just loves talking about stuff he is so passionate about. 🙋♀️👍 Vera
Mechanical lectures spoken in a German accent have an authority that is unrivaled by any other nationality. All of us viewers around the world are just sitting nodding and quietly saying, "Yes, Herr Professor," accepting everything you say without question...
Lol. Funny that you think this way, Allen. Thanks for your comment!
A really fascinating video for me, guys. As I don't have any technical training, almost all the info you shared here was new to me. Cheers!
It's always great to hear that our information is usuful to someone. Thanks 👍🙋♀️ Vera
Awesome video. I mentioned on the last video that I also just replaced my drive shaft. I bought an OEM because of everything you just explained👍🏻 Very cool, well done. Also, your son is a chip off the old block! Congrats.
Thanks. We appreciate your feedback a lot.
An engineer out of .engineers. great family
only German can talk to his wife about math's and physics, and his wife responded. great!
I have to say: I learned a few things! Good timing, because it's almost time to make a custom driveshaft for my Cummins swapped GMC truck 🤠
Hello Waldo, looking forward to see a clip of that. 👍 Here in Germany, a Cummins Diesel is the engine in large construction machinery. 😳
Absolute joy!! UK Driveshaft, US Propshaft.
😃👍We know, Christian works in the automotive balancing industry and we spend almost 10 years living in the US. 🙋♀️ Vera
This was fascinating. I learnt loads thank you! You are great at explaining things! The word you were looking for when describing playing a guitar was strumming. Keep the videos coming
Thanks 😃. Appreciate you telling us the word we were looking for is strumming. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
So informative. Always learning from you guys.
Very interesting comparison regarding the weight but maybe the missing OEM solid rubber bush could equal 0.5 kg? Your LR has now truly been re-TUNED. I absolutely love your channel because of your personalities and also in many ways it mirrors my work on my SL320 which on most occasions gets new parts like suspension bushes and bearings before they fail to future proof the car and my driving fun.
Just found this one. Very interesting, many thanks for making this video.
Very funny, interesting and enjoyable 👏
Thanks John.
I guess the problem with the potential 616gmm imbalance is that this load will be transferred to the axle flange , which will cause increased wear on those bearings requiring early (and probably very expensive) replacement. Since this is all caused by the shaft having up to 0.135 mm of "play" could you shim or sleeve the shaft so it is exactly centred on the axle flange before you bolt it in? It wont fix the 200gmm residual imbalance but it could make sure the 416gmm is reduced as far as possible?
Love all your videos, you are an excellent teacher and love the fact that Vera allows you to test her, you make a great team and I wish you all the best.
I had exactly the same failures on my ‘04 Cayenne, this shaft looks near identical except the plunger. I got a Chinese special for £199 and a 5 year warranty.
Mine has now been on over 2 years and still good. Best wishes to you both, Peter
excited over prop-shafts, my kind of friend - great video!!!!!
😃 Thanks 🙋♀️ Vera
You know this is really one of your best videos, speaking as a fan. I learnt so much! If I remember right, you fixed the worn bearing with a replacement and had the fun of taking the joint apart, or was that somebody else? Your video is a great way to explain why when you design something from first principles you understand why, but if you copy something, you don’t have a clue. Keep up the good work.
😃👍Thanks 🙋♀️Vera
Great video it's good that your good lady is keen to learn.
You must like the Landrover Discovery, I have 2 Defender 110's and 3 Unimogs.
Love your tidy workshop 👍🏼
Hello Stuart, 3 Unimogs, wow 👍. Thanks for your comment 😊. 🙋♀️ Vera
What can some German Dude und deine Frauen tell us about drive shafts? A WHOLE HECK OFF A LOT !!!
Very much grateful. Like the video. Good stuff. 2013 LR2 (US) shuddering badly on acceleration at highway speeds under load. Gets to established speed then perfectly smooth. Coasting, light aceleration, smooth. No noises! (Except low rumble of the shuddering vibrations) Light driving in parking lot no problems detected no noises, no grinding. Thinking some flex disc or coupling on drive shafts? Or should I try to test CV joints. Any experience from anywhere appreciated. Vielen Dank mein Freunde!
A other great video. I had a great time watching and learning this stuff
Greetings from Belgium
Erik
Thanks Erik. 🙋♀️ Vera
Great I formation and facts especially about the wait factor of the drive shaft.
I am glad you liked the video 👍.🙋♀️ Vera
This is my favorite LR Time video. Interesting, funny. I love the bells and buzzers when Vera's talking, and Robin's craftsmanship is really cool. Is his stuff for sale?.
Hello Rob, appreciate your comment. This was actually a difficult video even if the video footage was non technical and all at one spot. I got 3 hours of content and had to cut lots of it out and still resulted in a +20 min video. I also covered various joint types and shaft typs but found that it will not be interesting for most viewers.
Physics 101 on drive shafts you ever thought of lecturing in a university as you made this episode very interesting and full of laughter
I think I could teach how not to do it. Thanks 👍
Totally excellent explanation. Yes I learnt a lot of something.
😃👍🙋♀️ Vera
we love watching you guys we run a disco 3 as well but you can always rely on z Germans to go all scientific keep up the great vids thank you
Yes, thanks. We got to make things complicated. It’s in our genes over here.
LR TIME Germans sound a bit like Us Irish except as they say give a German a simple thing and he will manage to over complicate it but give a Paddy a simple job and he will make a balls of it 😜
Very interesting and helpful thank you.
Glad you liked it. Thanks.
think vera might be a bit bored,good vid i enjoyed it,thanks
😂🙋♀️ Vera
Great video, it comes just in time for my disco 3, I'll wait for your return after you've done a few kilometres. Your explanations are excellent. If you give so many explanations on all the parts of the LR3 it promises a long and happy time.
So far it's running just fine, we still have to take it on the Autobahn. Thanks for your comment and have fun with your Disco👍.🙋♀️ Vera
Gives me the heeby-jeebies seeing a propshaft with a UJ at ONE end.
I was under the impression that UJs need to articulate in order to avoid continuously applying force to one point in each of the pivots, eventually squeezing any grease away from that point and causing wear.
Conversely, when a UJ articulates the force is applied to a different point in each pivot as the propshaft spins, which squeezes the grease around inside the pivot and ensures every part of the pivot is lubricated.
Having said that, if your OEM propshaft lasted 220,000km with no wear to the UJ, I guess wear on the UJ wasn't a problem.
Nice to know LR CAN make reliable UJs after all.
On the last Defender I had, the service manual said the propshaft should be greased every 1,000 miles (!) and, since I was travelling 700 miles every week it meant that I had to get underneath the vehicle and grease the propshafts EVERY weekend... which wasn't fun.
Interesting video, the after market driveshaft we fitted had a grease nipple on the bearing.
One of the diesel dyno cells at my work was eating up prop shafts like a dog chews a toy. The yokes cracked apart creating impressive destruction. The harmonic damper on the absorber had failed. These were big joints as well (Spicer 5-280X).
Brilliant, thank you
Got this problem on my 6 year old 53000 mile Disco 4. New one going in in monday
I follow a channel where 1 older irish pair documents their things - for multiple reasons. I was 1 day caught by surprise when the man of that pair displayed unexpected drumming skills. Similar feeling to when observing cheetah to stop chase down his prey in order to train the little waltz he memorized yesterday. Same here - I am really taken by surprise by what you are revealing here, Christian. I know you are car engineer (or designer or...). Still - all these awesome details were surprising. And very well explained. +1.
He is actually a balancing expert, world wide, for probshafts, driveshafts, axles and almost everything that rotates in a vehicle. So that topic was right up his alley. 😅👍🙋♀️Vera
@@Vera_and_Christian I see... He tricked me ;) But srsly - impressive.
Outstanding.. Thanks for the great info!
Very interesting explanation - thank you!
Thanks . 🙋♀️ Vera
Would a shaky or wobbly steering wheel at 50 miles hr mean that the front prop shaft is bad? Any help would be appreciated 🇬🇧
Ahh the dreaded “death wobble” many many videos on this subject. Mostly on Jeep’s, but even my 2004 Chevy truck is developing this. Many front end parts can wear out causing this. Best of luck
Oh dear. My local garage recently changed our prop shaft and can't even tell us what brand it is. Maybe I should go down there and ask them all about their plunging joints and g/mm of unbalance. Fortunately, can't feel anything in the car so probably ok :D. Another great video, love watching you guys.
Thanks 😃. 🙋♀️ Vera
Great explanation Guys, thouraghly enjoyed the video! Guess you must have worked in the automotive sector with that detailed explanation 🙄
Thanks. Yes, I work for a machine tool manufacturer and had to do with drive shafts for a while.
Awesome explanation, you’ve missed your goal in life, you should become a teacher. German engineering at it’s best.
Special thanks to Vera with her female explanation about the feelings and the rubbing, Things very important to both man, women and driveshafts. Can’t wait for the next one. Love you guys
Thanks for your comment on Christians part 👍💪. I am driving a Freelander, it feels like driving a Tractor compared to the Disco, so I am used to a lot of driving noise 😂. But I am actually very sensitive to unusual noises or vibrations. Sometimes, Christian has to take the car on a short test drive when it feels off to me 😄.🙋♀️ Vera
Wow you two just amaze me. Love watching your uploads. Thank you
Thanks, love to hear that you like our videos. 🙋♀️Vera
I hope I never had to replace mine, but I love the vids and content you make!
Shame the centre bearing just can't be replaced, so you can keep the OE shaft..
It can, www.lrparts.net/da2395-discovery-3-and-discovery-4-centre-propshaft-bearing-for-rear-prop-tvb500360-aftermarket-and-gkn-availabile.html
@@andicog so why not go for this, and service the joints?
@@bugjuicer not sure? Would make more sense to keep the GKN shaft and replace the bearing, maybe it was a time issue?
@andicog @bugjuicer We are for sure going to try to fix the propshaft. Christian is not going to let that one go 😄🙋♀️ Vera
Great video as per usual, had the pleasure of replacing the Center bearing on my friends ‘05 RR sport last week, bit of a pain in the ass but very doable. Also had the pleasure of replacing rear ball joints, removing the body and replacing turbo while the body is off .....! 😬 great fun though as ye could imagine due all the LR repair adventure ye have ...!
We couldn't change the center bearing unfortunately, that boot did not come off, at all. When we have more time, we will give it another try. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
LR TIME The cv booth is removable but it is a schmerzen im arsch , you have to chisel off the old booth carefully and then with a round ended chisel tap it back into the grove , it’s very similar to putting an inner cv booth on an old Peugeot or Renault.
@@billytremoloband7456 We have of tried to remove it. Christian is very capable and even works closely with propshaft manufacturers. I think he knows what he is doing. We were not willing to destroy a 1000€ shaft just for RUclips entertainment, we are not sponsored by anyone 😉, or even earn money worth talking about with youtube. But like I wrote there will be more to come. 😃👍🙋♀️ Vera
LR TIME Totally understand not wanting to possibly destroy a 1000€ shaft ...! With the Lr stuff sometimes you have to be a bit rough and ready though 😬 to take things apart....! To be honest I’m very impressed with the work he is doing on the landys ! This is coming from someone 23 years Working as a mechanic and spend a few years in a JLR dealership! To be honest I would run a mile from a lot of the tasks ye have takin on and completed successfully! Ye are LR legends in my opinion! Keep the great work!
@@billytremoloband7456 Thank you, that is a great compliment. And we do certainly appreciate the interaction with professionals. 😃👍🙋♀️ Vera
Awesome as always. Question. Why did you not just replace the bearing or easier use a two piece rubber mount that can be put on without removing prop. As you found out, the actual bearing & UJs were all good. I ask as my rubber has a small split so looking to do shortly.
The protective rubber boot of the center joint is not available separately as a spare and it’s not possible to remove the boot without damage. Christian
@@Vera_and_Christian take a look at Darkside Developments, very interesting find although OUCH 🤣
You both rock! Vera is so patient and sweet and you master it all. Great to learn and know more things about our Lands and keep away from those chinese stuff. Keep it up!
How you doing? After see thia video I wonder about lubrication of the joints. Have you ever put grease in the moving joints of the shafts? Does the Discovery have maintenace plan for it?
I'm having huge vibrations due to faulty rear propshaft, wich brand would u choose from between ?
Eurodriveline
NTY
GSP
Thanks for ur videos and advice
Hi I think you do a great informative presentation on RUclips, I am interested in the Chinese prop shaft you bought and fitted , is it still working ok with no issues and if so could you please give me a link and part number to the site you bought it from .
Kind regards
Gary
Excellent! Why do you not attempt to fix the old one?
On our prop
shaft, the boot could not be taken appart without causing damage. You see it in the video. And that boot cannot be purchased as a spare part, unfortunately. Others have taken it off, but we also do not believe that you get it to seal properly again. However, Christian is a propshaft specialist, working closely with the manufacturer. We are not done with that shaft, but somehow so many projects keep coming up that we haven't had the time to adress the shaft again. Our cheap Chinese shaft has holding up for almost two years now. 👍💪🙋♀️Vera
Think my other car has a carbon fibre driveshaft. You have a lot of knowledge thanks for sharing. Is this your profession design engineering ?
Carbon fiber is rare. Never came across one. I work in the automotive machine tool industry. Thanks.
I am a disco 3 owner and maintainer. Love your videos, especially the engine build. I have done many jobs on mine most recently the dual mass flywheel. I must ask you why not just change the centre bearing on the lovely gkn propshaft?
Have you tried it yet? Let me know if you are able to, without ruining the center boot itself, which is not abailable as a spare part (It should be). Our propshaft has been exposed to the elements for 16 years now, there was no chiseling it down like other RUclipsrs did. And we do believe that it will not seal up
100% long term. We have made a second video . ruclips.net/video/sSoDLaB3oUU/видео.html 😃👍🙋♀️ Vera
Hello
thank you a lot for your wonderfull work.
I know mine is not a discovery but is a Range Rover L322 wich is a Land Rover.
I had to replace the center bearing on the rear drive shaft, Then I noticed that the UJ is completly seized. This UJ's don't have a circlip to hold them in place not even the grouve for the circlip like the older LR's. This one are studded with stitches. Do you think that is possible to repalce the UJ? Maybe with a weld drop? Or is a bad idea?
No, its a crimped joint. Just get a new drive shaft made in China for 130 Euro. They work ok and are a lot less than the GKN OEM shaft. We run ours now for two years with no issue. Christian
some Australian Ford Falcons had aluminium tailshafts (as we call 'em) and were speed limited to 180kph, otherwise they have a tendency to explode catastrophically
Very interesting video thank you both, particularly for someone like me who has just replaced my rear prop with an aftermarket part on my beloved disco 4. However, would it be fair to say that you focus on the worst case scenario here? As you say, comfort depends on misalignment of the rotating mass, and it depends on the vector multiplication of the cumulative imbalance including both mounting points. The offset you measured for the mounting to the differential should probably be /2, same for the transfer box since you assume maximum possible misalignment currently, and you are assuming oem is perfect and comparing to it as if it were a perfect part, which is not really true. I admit, i have vested interest in this being the case!! 😅 But would that be fair to say? Thanks
Christian is a renowned balancing specialist working with all the big companies in this business, worldwide. He has forgotten more about balancing than most will ever know. 😅👍 We installed a aftermarket probshaft due to limited and unreasonable expensive OEM parts during Covid 19 lockdown, when this happened. Christian also works with the OEM supplier for this propshaft. The aftermarket did not last long and we have installed the original OEM back, and just replaced the center bearing. We may reveal how did that in the future. But it was the only choice we had back then.👍🙋♀️
@@Vera_and_Christian, no doubt about it, thanks for the reply! All the best. :)
One of the most common failures on the disco 3. Easily noticeable though you do not need to take the heat shield off to see it.
You are now professor land rover
That is going to be on our sticker one day 👍😃. Thanks 🙋♀️ Vera
Hello again. At the end, how you correct the offset of the center lines?? Thanks
Well, could not correct it. It has a potential runout because of the poor fit.
Christian a quick question if I may, why not just replace the center bearing (LR037028 from RockAuto in not so USA). love the channel cheers Paul Victoria BC
The CV joint seal kit is not available as a spare. All solutions I saw leak. The whole shaft was less than 150 Euro. Christian
Hello sir I'm Adel from Jordan (Middle East ).. could you right all what you explained about driveshaft in these video to be able shown under the screen ..because I want to write it to note book and check all your lesson's by back to my book in mathematics' and physics I have some degree in communication's .. when you talking about resonant frequency I know these what mean .. thank you sir .
Can you replace the support bearing?
We can, it's very tricky. You can buy a two piece bearing, but it costs almost as much as a new OEM propshaft. Check this video, but we do not show the most important part. We should, since it's been holding up so far.ruclips.net/video/IQdxCXm3rgM/видео.htmlsi=T3QD9IS0fKSXZeEP 🤔😃👍🙋♀️
Is it cheap and possible to have this out of specification size issue corrected with weld and lathe turning / cutting?
I suppose the answer relies on the item purchase cost difference, plus the engineering fee to bead weld and turn down to the correct size / fit; plus availability of this engineering work locally.
We've got a comment from someone who tack welded it, so I suppose that is one way of dealing with the boot. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
Hello. Without the Rubber didnt the car whable? Mine is making whable and i think its propshaft but if you say that you didnt notice the missing Rubber i am Lost. Best regards
We did not not notice any vibration. Just a bit of a clonking during shift but hard to associate it to the bearing. It Maybe different on a automatic. Christian
Danke für das Video... Du bist woh ein Fachmann für die Kardanwellenfertigung 😁
Bei mir ist nun auch das Mittellager auch defekt. Ich wollte erst eine Kardanwelle aus dem Zubehör kaufen. Nun habe ich die OEM gekauft - da ich mehr sicherheit haben wollte. Allerdings bin ich unsicher ob diese auch tatsächlich immer noch sehr gut ist. Du hast erwähnt, die wird nun auch nicht mehr in England gefertig - sondern in Polen. Hoffentlich taugt das weiterhin...
Ich werde diese nächste Woche einbauen, dann weiß ich mehr...
👌👍Wirf die alte aber nicht weg. Wir haben unsere OEM vor kurzem mit einem neuen Lager versehen und wieder eingebaut.🙋♀️
@@Vera_and_Christian Ja, das habe ich gesehen. Sagt mal bescheid ob der Kleber für die Kappe hält 😊
Ich überlege ein Presswerkzeug zu fräsen, damit man die Kappe wieder verpressen kann... Müsste eigentlich gehen...
Wenn ich die alte in der Hand habe, überlege ich mir was 🤗
@@Doktorvollcrass 👍Das verpressen ist der ausschlaggebende Schritt ob die Sache hält, nicht der Kleber. Unsere Methode hat soweit gehalten und werden das wahrscheinlich in einem Video demnächst zeigen. 🙋♀
I was really hoping you were going to introduce the other bearing on the bench as a retro fit on the OEM shaft.
I could not find a new boot for the center CV joint. Once I find it, I’ll fix the OEM shaft and install it. Thanks.
@@Vera_and_Christian is that bearing on the bench a possible repair part? Ive had thoughts of having the center bearing rubber recast with polyethylene.
Great info 👍
😃 Thanks. 🙋♀️ Vera
Nice video but you can just buy a center hanger bearing replacement and keep your oem drive shaft its a easy process if you have some tools my transmission just got rebuilt shop found my center hanger bearing or rubber holding on the bearing worn out he bought a surf drive shaft with good center hanger bearing, I wished he called me b4 replacing it replacing center hanger bearing very easy. Job
Thank you for this nice explaining video. Where did you got that Chinese shaft from?
Got it from eBay. Easy to find with the OEM number. Thanks David.
Could you replace just the centre bearing?
We can, and a mechanic who has the right tools and knows what needs to be done to get it back to seal up again, also. 👍👌🙋♀️
Do you know about front prop shaft replacment??
No, we only replaced the rear propshaft because of the center bearing, the shaft itself, front and rear are just fine.🙋♀️ Vera
Hi l have been following the pair of you since day 1 - l have a Disco 3 where did you buy your prop shaft? Although English l live in France since Brexit buying parts from the U.K. for my LR has now become just so expensive - lm getting a serious short judder when trying to climb up my steep drive lm really hoping it’s not torque converter or a diff - car runs perfect on the straight - lm hoping it’s the prop shaft joints car has been well serviced regular and gearbox flushed at 140k miles
When the parts are too expensive, then we don't buy OEM. That is just the way it is with a car that breaks regularely. That is what we try to show with our videos, that you can drive this car without it becoming a money pit. We also do not have a GAP tool, 600€ is just too expensive. I hope you find your source of judder 👍🙋♀️ Vera
Hi Christian and Vera, just a quick question why not just replace the center bearing for £25??
Great explanation of drive shafts
It is not an easy fix. You have to get the center bearing out of the propshaft, and that is the problem we were having. The protective boot that is crimped over the joint will get damaged during removal. On our propshaft, that boot sits tight and did not move a bit at all. So we believe if we apply more force, it will get damaged and not seal tight anymore after we put the propshaft back together. That particular boot should be offered as a spare part with the center bearing. We know other people have replaced just the center bearing, but they probably did not have any problems removing the boot in the first place. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
@@Vera_and_Christian thanks Vera, that makes perfect sense!
Would it be possible to just pull the u joints and swap out the original flange of the LR and install it on the Chinese driveshaft?
The u-joint has a different size cross and it is crimped in place. I still have the GKN shaft and when I visit their plant next time (from work) then I will ask to get a new boot and center bearing. Christian
@@Vera_and_Christian oh ok. It did look larger than the stock one in the video.
Thanks for great informative video, but,why,why do they put the flimsy rubber suspension at the joint? They all fail, ruins the longevity of the prop shaft, I replaced mine for £39, still ok after one year. Thanks again you two
That's is great, we unfortunately have not figuered out yet how to get the center bearing off the driveshaft without damaging the shaft. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
Do you have the link for the part??
No unfortunately not. We got it off ebay. 🙋♀️ Vera
Land Rover L319 LR3/4, L319 Discovery3/4, L320 Range Rover Sport Driveshaft Center Support Bearing Carrier Upgrade
Nice upgrade without buying new drive line much cheaper than buy new drive line
Are you serious, no way anyone could do a 26min driveshaft vid..... 26min later..... WOW 😮 how interesting!
😂. Glad you liked it. Thanks for your comment 🙋♀️ Vera
Just buy a centre bearing and fit it to the original shaft. That way you have a spare prop shaft and the bearing in UK is around £38 only.
We are for sure going to try to fix the old propshaft. 👍🙋♀️ Vera
Probably I am being naïve, but isn't there a way to shim the loose end?
No, we truley believe you will not get it sealed again. Not with the damage you are causing while it taking it apart. 👍🙋♀️Vera
@@Vera_and_Christian I meant the 0,25mm looseness on the one end of the prop shaft, if it was possible to shim it somehow (without taking it apart). Like the high-tech equivalent of wrapping it with silver foil around the edge :D This would position it closer to the middle, but I am not sure how it would be done.