I completely agree. That transmission was incredibly ground braking technology for its time but a lot of people did not know how to operate them and neither Ferrari nor Maserati dedicated the time to train its customers
I was taught not to lift off when shifting. Also I was advised to put the transmission into track mode as the clutch take up had less slippage - longer life.
Some of the advice goes against the manual. Its not a true sequential gearbox. You do not lift when shifting, up or down. The TCU looks at bunch of parameters and controls clutch position and pressure based on lookup tables in the firmware. It also reduces engine power momentarily while the clutch is engaging. Trying to 'feather' the throttle gains you almost nothing. You can put the car into N at stop lights if you like, but it makes no difference whatsoever. The clutch remains disengaged regardless. Reverse is different!! The clutch is partially engaged while in reverse, so you want to avoid sitting stationary while in 'R'. You can wear the clutch out early doing a lot of this. You do not want to put the car in neutral and 'coast'. If your foot is off both the brake and gas for more than 4 seconds, he car will put itself into 'N'. When starting the car from a stop, do not tiptoe into the throttle. The clutch will slip until about 1800 rpm, at which point full pressure is applied for full bite. You want to avoid extended periods in RPM no-mans land, which is about 1100 - 1800 RPM. Practice 'goosing' the car to get the RPM up and then backing off.if you are close to the guy ahead of you. Do your maintenance and drive the car in a spirited way and it will last a long time. JR 2002 360 spider
Great info 👍. I am looking at buying a 4200 Maserati Spyder and wondered if you can explain about hill starts and parks? Is it ok to leave the car in 1st with hand rake when turning the engine off or does it always have to be in neutral with hand brake? I've only ever driven a manual and always leave in gear on a hill but wonder if that could be problematic with this box? Liable to seize etc? My driveway is on a slope so I guess it's unavoidable being in the 'no man's land' for a few seconds when parking?
I’ve always been told to lift and have been told to recommend to my customers to lift only in single clutch, because of the stress on the clutch going bad in 20k miles, in both Ferrari and Maserati. Clutch jobs are cake for me to do, but I do have customers that are always showing concern about the wear. Our 40 year master tech said to always drive in manual mode and lift in between shifts quickly to prolong clutch life.
As many have stated here, do not lift off the throttle on shifting. I discussed this with a 25 year master Ferrari tech regarding my F430, and he said under no circumstances feather the throttle on shifting. This actually leads to premature clutch, actuator, etc failure.
If you're lifting off the throttle your throw-out bearing is seizing on the input shaft. You absolutely do not need to lift off the throttle (and should not) when changing gears in an F1 transmission. I've just made a video showing what causes the issue.
I've driven these both with fresh clutches and with worn clutches. I've noticed that, on those with fairly fresh clutches, the grab happens quickly enough that you don't need to lift off the throttle; while, on those with fairly worn clutches, the system seems to prefer when you lift off. Does this sound right, or am I missing something?
@@icantgivecredit871 If you're lifting off then you have a throwout bearing in a state of failure. It sticks onto the drive shaft and drops the clutch. If you watch my clutch change videos I show the issue!
@@ShiftMotoring Interesting. I just read your post on it. I had known that the manual said that you don't need to lift off the throttle, but I always assumed it was simply something that drivers did in order to save their clutch from wearing out quickly. Good info! I did notice that, on the car with the fresh clutch change, it seemed to hate when you lifted off. I was therefore only lifting 1/4 of the way or less when driving it.
@@icantgivecredit871 A lot of the bad rep these transmissions has is due to skipped maintenance. When you're really on it and the system is setup correctly they're so much more satisfying to drive than people think!
Saved me from having to say it. I’ve never driven a car with the F1 but in all my research I have found that you do not lift during shifts, it’s a “race car” not a rolls Royce. Comfort is not the intention. Unless replacing clutch every 10k miles is comforting to you? Lol.
Oddly enough, the Ferrari manual says to NOT lift the throttle when shifting. See page 69 of the F-430 manual: "Upshifting Operate the right-hand UP lever without releasing the accelerator pedal."
As someone in their 50's, and grew up learning to drive on a stick, I'm always amazed that young people prefer stick shifts. They are only enjoyable to use if you are on a deserted twisty road. All other conditions the automatic is superior to the driving experience in my opinion. I think the F1 Transmission really gives you the best of both types of transmissions.
wow I thought I was the only one who preferred an auto except certain cases when I would enjoy a manual. I think a lot of car guys tend to forget that automatic transmissions are an improvement over old technology such as stick-shift/manual transmissions.
As a 50 year old gal whose been a manual fan for 35-ish years, I especially love a manual 4x4. But for Some of us, we love the process of shifting and feeling the whole driving process , it’s so much more fun! It keeps you more engaged , more conscious of your surroundings and less likely to go into auto-pilot and zone out. Plus- your less likely to be on your phone! I like the old fashioned gear boxes and really am no fan of the tiptronic and other versions of the auto transmissions tho if I had a family to tote around, I’m sure I’d prefer the automatics. Be well !!!
For me part of the driving experience is shifting. I live in PA so plenty of hills and traffic but I don't know I guess it's just second nature I never found myself saying man I wish I was in my wife's car (auto)
I think you're not supposed to lift off. The control module handles that perfectly. If you lift off, the car would shift more slowly and wears out the clutch sooner.
Can't shift neutral to first while moving, the 2006 Maserati QP has the same problem. Really annoying when I'm in a car wash. Last time I revved my engine really loud three times trying to get out cause I forgot about that rule, and everyone started cheering cause they thought I was showing off.
This is why they added two sensors to the SoFast IV. It’s smoother than you driving it without lifting off the gas. You’re going to cause lots of wear on the clutch driving the way you are versus zero.
Wrong information about lifting off the foot when up shifting , smoothing the gear change is not the purpose here and you actually causing more clutch wear as lifting the foot off sends signal to TCU and messed with faster gear change . This is not a traditional manual car . And you never put it in N when coming to a stop . Please make sure you use proper knowledge before advising people of a wrong procedure
i had an smg and lifting on upshifts definitely helped smooth out the shifts. i agree with the not going into N at stops though, that seems insane and dangerous especially if the car wont let you go into gear at a roll.
Is it a sequential manual? I'd refer to those types of transmissions as "automated manuals," or less likely, "automated-clutch manual." And really, it's just a standard manual H-pattern, with an automated clutch.
What you learned is _WRONG_. What this guy's saying is incorrect. The TCU (transmission control unit) of the F1 does all of this for you. You will foul-up your clutch (and at least temporarily the learning algorithms of the TCU) if you do what this guy's saying. You do not lift or blip with an F1. Can't believe Marshall Goldman is putting this out there given their expertise in all things Ferrari.
This is literally just a manual trans with an extra sensor, different throwout bearing, and an electro hydraulic shifter block/pump bolted on. You can convert an f1 trans to a manual just by replacing the electro hydraulic block and throwout bearing setup, and finding the correct shifter/cables out of another 355/360/430 car
Sorry... but when you park it for some time, NEVER pull the hand brake. The actuator and the cables can dry, and break. Better get wheel chocks. Use the hand-break for short stops only.
The only time I put it into AUTO is (a) on the freeway in rush-hour / construction traffic; and (b) when warming it up from a cold start (sometimes, but not always). To answer your question, the AUTO mode works fine for what it is. What it is not is an automatic transmission (why the hell would you want that on a Ferrari anyway?!) Think of it more as a computer that's shifting a manual transmission...because that's what it is. What I'd advise is treating it like something boring (a Prius?) when you put it into AUTO mode. Try to forget you're driving a Ferrari. What I mean is: Don't stomp on the throttle. Don't treat it like a racecar. Don't expect the TCU to shift the way you'd shift the F1 yourself. The only reason I go to AUTO for warming it up from a cold start is just to remind myself not to start thrashing on the engine/trans until everything's up to temp. Keep the RPMs nice and low for a bit. It's very usable that way as well as in freeway traffic.
Trouble with this video is that the ferrari F1 system evolved over a number of models. The first version the 355F1 is almost identical to the Alfa Selespeed on which the system is based. Ferrari then refined it over a number of models and within models 360 had three different versions the challenge stradale being the best. Many 360 owners upgrade to the CS TCU. The F430 had three versions too. Launch / mid life upgrade and the scuderia /16m version. The last iteration. Included hardware upgrades too (selector forks). The final iteration of F1 can be found on the 599 which has F1 Superfast like the scuderia. I have both and F430 and 599 and you just drive them. No lifting no pussy footing around.
It is NOT an automated manual unless you switch it into the AUTO mode wherein you're letting the TCU do all the manual shifting for you. When in normal mode or Sport mode, it is absolutely a manual transmission that hydraulic actuators instead of a stick and cables and gives you the benefit of an intelligent TCU with multiple maps to rev-match, double-clutch, etc. as you manually call for the shift points (which it does in 150 milliseconds). Get one that's properly dialed in (say with the Challenge Stradale TCU map flashed), get it warmed up first, and then take it from 0 to 175 to 0 in under a mile and it's pretty hard to get back into the clutch-pedal and stick frame of mind other than when you're sitting in an older car where that was the only option. I've been driving stick for 40+ years, including on road course tracks, and paddle shifting gives you such an insane performance edge, there's no going back. The F1 trans and current DCTs are derived from racing because they radically altered the competitive landscape. They're simply better. FWIW, on my racing simulator I have both paddles and a gated 7-speed and enjoy using the gated manual shifter on period appropriate cars, so I'm not "anti-stick", just more "pro paddles/TCU" because I know that computers can do things faster and better than us with 100% accuracy 100% of the time. If your 360's F1 is properly dialed-in, that's what you'll get from it.
@@robbhendrickson most racing cars would use a seq transmission a sct or dct are to complicate for most race cars and are also heavier and in seq cars you still got a clutch pedal for starting of and they also need straight cut gears which are very loud
People always criticize when they don't understand how things works. Thanks to this video now I have another perspective of this type of transmission.
I completely agree. That transmission was incredibly ground braking technology for its time but a lot of people did not know how to operate them and neither Ferrari nor Maserati dedicated the time to train its customers
I was taught not to lift off when shifting. Also I was advised to put the transmission into track mode as the clutch take up had less slippage - longer life.
Some of the advice goes against the manual.
Its not a true sequential gearbox.
You do not lift when shifting, up or down. The TCU looks at bunch of parameters and controls clutch position and pressure based on lookup tables in the firmware. It also reduces engine power momentarily while the clutch is engaging. Trying to 'feather' the throttle gains you almost nothing.
You can put the car into N at stop lights if you like, but it makes no difference whatsoever. The clutch remains disengaged regardless.
Reverse is different!! The clutch is partially engaged while in reverse, so you want to avoid sitting stationary while in 'R'. You can wear the clutch out early doing a lot of this.
You do not want to put the car in neutral and 'coast'. If your foot is off both the brake and gas for more than 4 seconds, he car will put itself into 'N'.
When starting the car from a stop, do not tiptoe into the throttle. The clutch will slip until about 1800 rpm, at which point full pressure is applied for full bite. You want to avoid extended periods in RPM no-mans land, which is about 1100 - 1800 RPM. Practice 'goosing' the car to get the RPM up and then backing off.if you are close to the guy ahead of you.
Do your maintenance and drive the car in a spirited way and it will last a long time.
JR 2002 360 spider
yep, its literally an electrically controlled hydraulic shifter block and different throwout bearing on a normal manual transmission
Great info 👍. I am looking at buying a 4200 Maserati Spyder and wondered if you can explain about hill starts and parks? Is it ok to leave the car in 1st with hand rake when turning the engine off or does it always have to be in neutral with hand brake? I've only ever driven a manual and always leave in gear on a hill but wonder if that could be problematic with this box? Liable to seize etc? My driveway is on a slope so I guess it's unavoidable being in the 'no man's land' for a few seconds when parking?
I’ve always been told to lift and have been told to recommend to my customers to lift only in single clutch, because of the stress on the clutch going bad in 20k miles, in both Ferrari and Maserati. Clutch jobs are cake for me to do, but I do have customers that are always showing concern about the wear. Our 40 year master tech said to always drive in manual mode and lift in between shifts quickly to prolong clutch life.
The interior color options on this 360 is so nice, matching dash and steering wheel
As many have stated here, do not lift off the throttle on shifting. I discussed this with a 25 year master Ferrari tech regarding my F430, and he said under no circumstances feather the throttle on shifting. This actually leads to premature clutch, actuator, etc failure.
I have maserati with f1, also no lift off throttle on shifting ?
If you're lifting off the throttle your throw-out bearing is seizing on the input shaft. You absolutely do not need to lift off the throttle (and should not) when changing gears in an F1 transmission. I've just made a video showing what causes the issue.
I've driven these both with fresh clutches and with worn clutches. I've noticed that, on those with fairly fresh clutches, the grab happens quickly enough that you don't need to lift off the throttle; while, on those with fairly worn clutches, the system seems to prefer when you lift off. Does this sound right, or am I missing something?
@@icantgivecredit871 If you're lifting off then you have a throwout bearing in a state of failure. It sticks onto the drive shaft and drops the clutch. If you watch my clutch change videos I show the issue!
@@ShiftMotoring Interesting. I just read your post on it. I had known that the manual said that you don't need to lift off the throttle, but I always assumed it was simply something that drivers did in order to save their clutch from wearing out quickly. Good info! I did notice that, on the car with the fresh clutch change, it seemed to hate when you lifted off. I was therefore only lifting 1/4 of the way or less when driving it.
@@icantgivecredit871 A lot of the bad rep these transmissions has is due to skipped maintenance. When you're really on it and the system is setup correctly they're so much more satisfying to drive than people think!
Saved me from having to say it. I’ve never driven a car with the F1 but in all my research I have found that you do not lift during shifts, it’s a “race car” not a rolls Royce. Comfort is not the intention. Unless replacing clutch every 10k miles is comforting to you? Lol.
Oddly enough, the Ferrari manual says to NOT lift the throttle when shifting. See page 69 of the F-430 manual: "Upshifting
Operate the right-hand UP lever without releasing the accelerator pedal."
This has helped me a lot as I’m about to buy an older Maserati Quattroporte.
I looked up this topic and didn’t expect Kennan lol
The Ferrari f355 user manual clearly states not to lift up the foot from the gas pedal when upshifting contrary to what is being said in this video
If I recall correctly, Its easier and smoother on the clutch if you do.
Maybe for max performance you can keep foot planted.
@@Saif0412 NO it’s bad for the clutch!! It’s a racing transmission pure and simple use it as the manual says!!
As someone in their 50's, and grew up learning to drive on a stick, I'm always amazed that young people prefer stick shifts. They are only enjoyable to use if you are on a deserted twisty road. All other conditions the automatic is superior to the driving experience in my opinion. I think the F1 Transmission really gives you the best of both types of transmissions.
wow I thought I was the only one who preferred an auto except certain cases when I would enjoy a manual. I think a lot of car guys tend to forget that automatic transmissions are an improvement over old technology such as stick-shift/manual transmissions.
Amen
As a 50 year old gal whose been a manual fan for 35-ish years, I especially love a manual 4x4. But for
Some of us, we love the process of shifting and feeling the whole driving process , it’s so much more fun! It keeps you more engaged , more conscious of your surroundings and less likely to go into auto-pilot and zone out. Plus- your less likely to be on your phone!
I like the old fashioned gear boxes and really am no fan of the tiptronic and other versions of the auto transmissions tho if I had a family to tote around, I’m sure I’d prefer the automatics. Be well !!!
Vw DSG is even better. It is actually a robotised manual clutch. Great German engineering.
For me part of the driving experience is shifting. I live in PA so plenty of hills and traffic but I don't know I guess it's just second nature I never found myself saying man I wish I was in my wife's car (auto)
Kenan before Cars & Bids!
I think you're not supposed to lift off. The control module handles that perfectly. If you lift off, the car would shift more slowly and wears out the clutch sooner.
Can't shift neutral to first while moving, the 2006 Maserati QP has the same problem. Really annoying when I'm in a car wash. Last time I revved my engine really loud three times trying to get out cause I forgot about that rule, and everyone started cheering cause they thought I was showing off.
My 4200 is the same except.... try hitting the downshift paddle and it should slam it into first!
actually, you can if you are moving less then 5 mph or you have your foot on the brake.
@@jerryrailsback4910 I've shifted from N to 1 while rolling before, no brake. But weirdly it requires the brake if I'm totally stopped.
@@andrewlamkin4424 Hmm, lemme try that!
This is why they added two sensors to the SoFast IV. It’s smoother than you driving it without lifting off the gas. You’re going to cause lots of wear on the clutch driving the way you are versus zero.
Excellent , thank you.
Thanks for posting this. Just bought my challenge Stradale and was like “when it gets delivered, I won’t know how to drive it home from the dock.” LOL
This looks like fun, actually. Great video.
Wrong information about lifting off the foot when up shifting , smoothing the gear change is not the purpose here and you actually causing more clutch wear as lifting the foot off sends signal to TCU and messed with faster gear change . This is not a traditional manual car . And you never put it in N when coming to a stop . Please make sure you use proper knowledge before advising people of a wrong procedure
Agree, owners need to read to owners manual about operation of the F1 system according to Ferrari.
you are one of the few that seems to know something.
Amen!
How do u properly downshift?
i had an smg and lifting on upshifts definitely helped smooth out the shifts. i agree with the not going into N at stops though, that seems insane and dangerous especially if the car wont let you go into gear at a roll.
So what is the advantage over a traditional manual ?
Should be renamed "How to improperly drive a F1 transmission".
Finally! A voice of reason in this thread!
Kenan from Cars and Bids?
Its same gearbox like f430 ? Or some difrent ?
was taught not to lift XD I guess this is making sense more for city, low speed driving.
Do you apply your foot to the break when you pull reverse? Can you step on break and stay on N when stopping up hill? Thank you.
how much I love manual transmissions
Must watch video for new F1 owners like myself.
Is it a sequential manual? I'd refer to those types of transmissions as "automated manuals," or less likely, "automated-clutch manual." And really, it's just a standard manual H-pattern, with an automated clutch.
They are also called a single clutch transmission
@@hubertkam7647 Yep, if you want to call it that...
Awesome video and explanation I learned something new Haha 👍
What you learned is _WRONG_. What this guy's saying is incorrect. The TCU (transmission control unit) of the F1 does all of this for you. You will foul-up your clutch (and at least temporarily the learning algorithms of the TCU) if you do what this guy's saying. You do not lift or blip with an F1. Can't believe Marshall Goldman is putting this out there given their expertise in all things Ferrari.
Good advice, but don't lift off the throttle,the owner's manual says that
Good information. But, wear your seatbelt.
Helpful Video! You earned a like and sub
Great video
This is literally just a manual trans with an extra sensor, different throwout bearing, and an electro hydraulic shifter block/pump bolted on. You can convert an f1 trans to a manual just by replacing the electro hydraulic block and throwout bearing setup, and finding the correct shifter/cables out of another 355/360/430 car
Sorry... but when you park it for some time, NEVER pull the hand brake. The actuator and the cables can dry, and break. Better get wheel chocks. Use the hand-break for short stops only.
Hi! How to use maserati duoselect properly?
What is the meaning like manual transmission car?????
Thank you
Thank you!
What was the beeping in the cabin when you accelerated in first gear?
Perhaps a reminder to put the seatbelt on..
What kinda belt is that
As if I needed another reason to hate flappy paddle gearboxes.
Found Doug’s friend
Also how well does the auto actually work?
Don’t drive it in auto unless you are in the mood to replace the clutch very soon
Just the same as when you shift manually. Only difference is the TCU decides when to shift. I personally don't like its decisions.
who told you that?
@@jerryrailsback4910 ?
The only time I put it into AUTO is (a) on the freeway in rush-hour / construction traffic; and (b) when warming it up from a cold start (sometimes, but not always). To answer your question, the AUTO mode works fine for what it is. What it is not is an automatic transmission (why the hell would you want that on a Ferrari anyway?!) Think of it more as a computer that's shifting a manual transmission...because that's what it is. What I'd advise is treating it like something boring (a Prius?) when you put it into AUTO mode. Try to forget you're driving a Ferrari. What I mean is: Don't stomp on the throttle. Don't treat it like a racecar. Don't expect the TCU to shift the way you'd shift the F1 yourself. The only reason I go to AUTO for warming it up from a cold start is just to remind myself not to start thrashing on the engine/trans until everything's up to temp. Keep the RPMs nice and low for a bit. It's very usable that way as well as in freeway traffic.
Trouble with this video is that the ferrari F1 system evolved over a number of models. The first version the 355F1 is almost identical to the Alfa Selespeed on which the system is based. Ferrari then refined it over a number of models and within models 360 had three different versions the challenge stradale being the best. Many 360 owners upgrade to the CS TCU. The F430 had three versions too. Launch / mid life upgrade and the scuderia /16m version. The last iteration. Included hardware upgrades too (selector forks). The final iteration of F1 can be found on the 599 which has F1 Superfast like the scuderia. I have both and F430 and 599 and you just drive them. No lifting no pussy footing around.
Was this one on stock ride height?
Step 1: Put in gear. Step 2: PUNCH IT!!!
Dude do it on a car with an exhaust fml
Why did Ferrari call it a f1 transmission when it’s completely different from a f1 transmission this is just a automated manual
It is NOT an automated manual unless you switch it into the AUTO mode wherein you're letting the TCU do all the manual shifting for you. When in normal mode or Sport mode, it is absolutely a manual transmission that hydraulic actuators instead of a stick and cables and gives you the benefit of an intelligent TCU with multiple maps to rev-match, double-clutch, etc. as you manually call for the shift points (which it does in 150 milliseconds). Get one that's properly dialed in (say with the Challenge Stradale TCU map flashed), get it warmed up first, and then take it from 0 to 175 to 0 in under a mile and it's pretty hard to get back into the clutch-pedal and stick frame of mind other than when you're sitting in an older car where that was the only option. I've been driving stick for 40+ years, including on road course tracks, and paddle shifting gives you such an insane performance edge, there's no going back. The F1 trans and current DCTs are derived from racing because they radically altered the competitive landscape. They're simply better. FWIW, on my racing simulator I have both paddles and a gated 7-speed and enjoy using the gated manual shifter on period appropriate cars, so I'm not "anti-stick", just more "pro paddles/TCU" because I know that computers can do things faster and better than us with 100% accuracy 100% of the time. If your 360's F1 is properly dialed-in, that's what you'll get from it.
@@robbhendrickson most racing cars would use a seq transmission a sct or dct are to complicate for most race cars and are also heavier and in seq cars you still got a clutch pedal for starting of and they also need straight cut gears which are very loud
Marketing, plain and simple.
You really should know what you're talking about before posting. 🙄
That interior gave me migraines