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The Official Gilded Age Podcast | Ep. 4 “A Long Ladder” | HBO
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2022
- In part one, hosts Alicia Malone (TCM) and Tom Meyers (The Bowery Boys) discuss the fourth episode of The Gilded Age and examine the historical framework of Brooklyn and the flourishing Black Elite during the Gilded Age.
In part two, they are joined by Audra McDonald (Dorothy Scott) and historical consultant/ co-executive producer Dr. Erica Armstrong to discuss the development of the Scott family storyline, black America in 1882 and their experience working on Gilded Age.
Watch The Gilded Age on HBO Max, and subscribe to The Official Gilded Age Podcast so you don’t miss an episode.
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When we were first introduced to the character of Peggy at the train station. I knew immediately as a Black man, she was from upper class Black society. It was definitely confirmed on the introduction of her father. So I wasn’t surprised when we actually saw her family’s home and their lifestyle. So far the show has been pretty good!
There are a lot of families like Peggy’s in almost every major city of America. They stayed below the radar for generations and worked as doctors, lawyers etc. The late author Lawerence Otis Graham wrote a book about them. It was called Our Kind of People.
I’m saddened that the writers keep showing Peggy at odds with her fathers plans. In real life these upper class Black families created generational wealth by keeping the family business in the family. It would have been considered a step down by them to go get a job outside of the family.
This whole notion of her wanting to be a writer totally flies in the face of that.
@@technopirate304 very true my family was a part of those elite especially on my mother's side all college educated since the end of slavery. My great great grandfather owned a mercantile and his son my great grandfather was the first black mayor in a small town in Mississippi and the family did quite well thought the generations.
@@technopirate304 I hope that they will be able to reconcile their differences. I suspect some of the tension is in the plot line to drive viewer interest-it seems like conflict piques attention more than harmony 🤔
I really like Peggy’s father and think he longs to care for and protect his amazing daughter. At the same time, I also really like Peggy herself and admire her desire to test the boundaries of that time that were placed on women and in particular black women by following her dream to write.
I got the same impression that you did. I immediately knew she was from an upper if not middle class just by the way she dressed and how she spoke and was educated. Her father’s appearance solidified my impression. I was not surprised by the family home or the level of status that her family had. It made sense to me.
Facts Marian just showed how they really view her regardless of obvious signs.
When Agnes said, "I haven't rejoiced since 1865" I KNEW she was talking about the ending of the Civil War! Thank you for confirming this. 😊 ❤M
I can't wait for Mrs Russell to find out about her trifling ladies Maid's shenanigans!!! Heads will roll🤣🤣🤣
omg right!!! I need to see mess
I absolutely cannot wait until she gets her just do. I’m insulted 😂 he loves that woman!
@Chezza Outta Nowhere I mean what was Turner really thinking? Talking bout making her punany his temple🤣🤣🤣🤣
I can’t even wait…this gal needs her come-uppance, and Bertha will do it with flare! Anyone with eyes can see that the Russells are in love and are very attracted to each other-how delusional this lady’s maid must have been to pull a stunt like this!
@@eltinand1321 I know when she said that the image alone made me want to puke!
It's so clear that Peggy is far from poor. She's educated, paid for Marian's train ticket and will soon be a published author. Marian is so clueless.
She is more than likely better educated than Marian as well. Especially since her father had squandered the fortune there wouldn’t have been money for her to attend finishing school. Marian would have been married by then in Doylestown.
I appreciate the focus on the Scott family. I come from a similar family background, albeit from a different country, which has found success here as well. There are still many people who assume the worst of one’s upbringing or background simply because of race.
Ive got to say this is one of the most educated, thoughtful, historical and entertaining podcast that I've come across about a tv series in a long time.
100% agree.
Facts
💥💯👍💯👍 so agree
I am such a fan of Audra McDonald and her phenomenal, angelic singing voice-she is an artist who can sing anything. And she is just as versatile as an actress. Such a beautiful lady who seems to glow from the inside out!
Have you heard Denee Benton sing? She is an amazing soprano. I am dying for a mother/daughter duet.
@@rmcmariusable oh I have not, I will have to look for videos of this!! I would love such a duet 🎼🎹
@@cendrillonatsea5006 - I didn’t know she could sing either until Monday. She played Eliza in Hamilton at one point.
Marian's ignorance is stupifying. At any given moment Peggy is the best dressed person in the room. Why on earth would Marian think Peggy would want her raggly boots?! I almost died of second hand embarrasment.
Because it served the plot and the agenda. I don't think, based on her character's past behavior that she would.
That was intentionally written into the script in order to cause controversy.
That was difficult to watch. She misread Peggy's whole existence. Wake up Marian!
@@rmcmariusable It was a ridiculous contrived plot device to make Marian look idiotic and give Peggy a chance to rant. Neither acted in character or believably. There are legitimate stories to be told here, and then there is idiocy contrived to for controversy and agenda. What this episode wrote Marian doing, crashing someone's family visit and a private party uninvited, was just unbelievable. Not to mention she can't walk tot the park alone, but she can go to Brooklyn? And Peggy's ranting afterward honestly didn't make her look much better. How about writing both characters with more believability, rather than treating both -- not to mention the viewer -- as idiots merely to push a woke narrative.
@@mkultra11 yes, but also you must take into account that Marian doesn't know much about the high class and she is from a small town.
The actress who plays Peggy Scott(Denee Benton) is a breath of fresh air!!!! perfectly cast! great actress! I love listening to this podcast before I watch the episodes. it's almost like I am an insider!!! plus the history I learn here puts the episodes in a better perspective!!!
She has charisma, just adorable!
Hoping for the suggested duet between the equally luminous Ms. McDonald and Ms. Benton!
@@karenzielke9387 a duet with these two would give me life. I have seen them sing separately live on Broadway. Gorgeous voices.
This podcast was so informative! I loved every minute of it! I come from an upper middle class African American family in the South. This spoke to me in many ways. This podcast is a perfect companion to the show!
Me too I loved it❤️ I felt seen ❤️
@@anna-mariadavis5914 Yes! Me too!
This was an absolutely brilliant and well produced segment. Thank you for spending so much time addressing the brilliant Black cast and discussing the real history of Elite Blacks.
Clothes were usually a big tip-off to someone's social standing in this day and age. Peggy has always been dressed similarly to what Marion wore. I guess I wasn't surprised that she came from a well-to-do family. However, I'm so happy to see this as a storyline in this show!
I am getting ready to start reading Black Gotham. As a native New Yorker, this piece of history fascinates me. I am loving the show so far. So pleased that Black history is being included.
A little back story: The Election of 1876 is arguably the most contentious in US History. It was extremely close with Rutherford B. Hayes (R) defeating Samuel Tilden (D) by one electoral vote (185 to 184 respectively). Hayes strongly supported African Americans’ right to vote and protection of their civil rights, but he had little influence in the South. Part of the deal, known as the compromise of 1877 between Republicans and Democrats was that if Democrats stopped contesting the outcome of the election, Republicans would support Hayes as winning the election if he would pull Federal troops out of the south. This effectively ended Reconstruction which allowed the Jim Crow era in the south to flourish.
Thank you Tom for sharing that nugget of history with us.
Wow! good to know!
Most have no idea about reconstruction. The wealth, doctors, lawyers, schools, teachers, acquired land, land theft, freedman’s bank, so much history.
It had been ages, since I have enjoyed a community on RUclips such as this one. I am learning so much from this podcast, the host Tom & Alicia and the amazing history geeks (like myself) who are sharing their wealth of knowledge.
This is what community is all about. Learning from one another. Our history in America may not be pretty and it can be a hard pill to swallow at times, but we must continue to learn and acknowledge the past.
Whenever I read something new from someone who shared some information, I get a burst of excitement to learn more about it. It's refreshing.
Thanks to everyone who has suggested books, movies, documentaries, articles and took the time to gather information and post it on here.
Until next Monday....have a fabulous week. 💖
Black people are always the pawns in this game
Favorite part of this podcast. If the audience was shocked Peggy was rich, ask yourself why!
I was not shocked. Did you see Peggy’s beautiful gowns? Taffetas and silks in bold colors that were gorgeous! They are fancier than anything seen on Marian. Don’t you think?
@@MamaLee5 me neither. Peggy was giving me money and high class since the beginning, lend her the fair, well dressed, well educated, great manners.
For me there were many incidences - from her beautiful gowns, always accessorized with gloves and a bag; her general diction when speaking; her ability to pay for Marian's train ticket, to even being able to seek access to a lawyer.
Even Aunt Agnes' general impression of Peggy was sealed within the first few minutes of their meeting - from when she learnt of Peggy's education and her handwriting (the latter of which impressed her, so as to employ Peggy as her secretary).
@@Jennifer-qy5dy 💯
@samantha smith six months ago I quoted the podcast that you seemed to not finish. Please go back a finish watching, and my comment will not cause you confusion.
I held off on listening until i finished watching the episode, but it was not an easy feat! I love the concept of this podcast--it serves as such a great companion to the show. Knowing more of the history really enriches my viewing experience.
This movie will make history because for once, someone thought to mainstream a part of history never made before in the affluency and talents of black Americans. We are using this show as a start to learning the history of this age.
On a lighter note, i have to say that I adore all the purples that these ladies are being dressed in...Peggy has had some of the loveliest shades of purple in her haberdashery and attire, completely swoon-worthy!!
There’s a great book called Mauve: How One Man Invented the Color that Changed the World. It was the first chemical dye that was isolated from tar and transformed the color pallet of the Victorian era and it started first with various shades of purple, but expanded to all colors.
@@bookofdust this is a book I will have to read, thank you so much!! I have slowly been reading these mini essays on colors in a book called The Secret Life of Colour, and I am fascinated by the history..a whole book on purple would have me in rapture!! 😻♥️🟣
I cannot thank you enough for having these conversations. For a podcast about a period costume drama, you guys really touch on so many important topics and really educate us on them. You always have on such interesting guests that bring wonderful perspectives and knowledge to the discussion. I'm so glad that this podcast exists.
OMG, I loved episode 4 and this podcast episode was even better. I remember being so excited when Downton Abbey introduced a black character. The Gilded Age is giving me so much more. I love history so I'm overjoyed to see an in-depth realistic storyline of black excellence during that time period. When Marian opened that bag of shoes my face was like 😳🤦🏾♀️. Your podcast guests Audra McDonald and Dr. Erica Armstrong Dunbar were everything! They did a phenomenal job speaking on the show, American history, and the black experience. Black people are not monolithic, however I connected with everything they said, even the part about my gma telling me to put on a slip! 😂They police out of love tho 🥰.
I cringed when that bag was opened…what an embarrassing moment for Marian if she has any self-awareness whatsoever
I probably should not listen to this yet, since episode 4 has not dropped yet, but the podcast is my favorite part. 🧡
I too wanted to wait but couldn't resist.
I'll wait ... I was a bit confused and surprised to see the episode 4 podcast was up already!
@@TheOchuks I think it was an error.
Me too!
Same! Love this podcast
Yall need to be dropping the episode at 12a PST if you're gonna release the podcast early. I want my Agnes fix NEOWWW!
Let me just say (spoilers)……
It was quite satisfying to see Turner being rejected and humiliated but still I don’t think that’ll be the last of her “plans/scheming”.
I cringed the entire time!!
I can’t wait for Mrs. Russell to find out. I need to see how she handles this situation.
George should have fired her after letting Bertha know what happened
I absolutely love this show & this podcast! I simply can’t get enough of the historical information of the time. And I very much appreciate all of the comments, as I learn even more historical details. When I finish each episode of the show, I’m left wanting more & this podcast gives me so much more!
I absolutely love this podcast episode and the deep dive into the Black Elite by your special guests today. This is a part of our history that is never taught to mainstream America. So many of the issues these people faced are still happening today including racial bias in various settings and lack of voting rights. Peggy is educated and has money from her middle class family but is still ultimately looked upon as a “poor black girl”.
I don’t think she would’ve been looked at like that by others , wealth is obvious .
@@mkultra11 Did we watch the same episode? What I described is exactly what happened to Peggy. Marian assumed Peggy was poor even after knowing her education, was given train fare and has seen her lovely wardrobe simply because she is a black woman. Unfortunately, this racial bias still happens. I work in a community hospital. People who should be my colleagues assume I am part of the hardworking janitorial staff or a nurse assistant without my white coat. It is infuriating.
@@yvonnedaniels8449 Sorry that you experience racial bias. I think in the context of the show Marian is just clueless. I love that she gets a taste of what Peggy goes through being gawked at while she is in Brooklyn. Sometimes it’s going to take lived experience for those people to get what it’s like. ✌🏽
I love that this show shows, an accurate Black and White cultural system. YES! Everyone needs to see this and know that these systems existed.
Love the episode snd Nathan Lane in the previews as Ward McAllister!!
That scene made no sense she sees how well dressed Peggy is🙄🙄
i think that just shows how ignorant marian is.
Please feature more black elite characters!!
Amazing discussion about the differences and similarities in cultures and race. As a Puerto Rican woman, my path has been very much like Peggy. I was made very aware from an early age that I was standing on the shoulders of my ancestors and responsible for representing my people in my choices and actions.
I love Peggy and I love Marianne but that scene of Marianne showing up to the parents house felt forced to prove a point at the expense of the character continuity. First of all, Peggy was very clear that she was only going to Brooklyn because of her mothers birthday. Nobody brings old shoes to a birthday, specially the way the character of Marianne was portrayed so far. Specially given that Peggy herself was never shown or said anything about financial hardship. I understand what the writers were trying to do but it was really out of place.
I am OBSESSED with this show.
Good job, HBO. *Good job!*
One of the first free schools in America for black students was founded in Fort Greene, Brooklyn in 1827 --- the same year that emancipation took effect in New York. (The law abolishing slavery was passed in 1817.) New York was the first state to do so, although it took another ten years to become official. In 1855, New York City destroyed a thriving black community known as Seneca Village to make way for Central Park. It is only recently this fact has been acknowledged. Such is the strange dichotomy of the black experience in New York.
Pennsylvania passed a law for gradual emancipation before New York. Slavery in Massachusetts was abolished by their state supreme court in the 1780s.
Thank you so much for sharing that bit of history.
It still happens today, my hs guidance counselor told me to apply for scholarship for underprivileged black students...my parents made a lot of money and my step mother sent her an email stating not to assume every black child is poor.
K, Im still watching the episode so I havent enjoyed the podcast yet, but I love how Peggy's character shifts when she is in the Globe with her fellow African Americans and on equal footing with them. Well Done.
I really wish ya'll would drop the episode on streaming when the podcast gets released. Can't even listen to this until the episode airs you guys. >.>
Another excellent podcast with very interesting notes on history of the time of The Gilded Age!
This is the best tv podcast I've listened to in a while!!! What an amazing episode!
The scene in the department store could easily be set in 2022 New York.
I love this podcast and can't resist listening to it even though I've not watched the episode yet. How come it came out this early?
Same here
I am pleased that this dropped early. Thank you!
OMG! This is so good I can't believe it! It is BETTER than Downton Abbey and so well done!
Peggy won this episode hands down.
The funny thing is I never thought Peggy was poor. I was remarking to my daughter how much fancier her gowns were compared to Marian’s and the fact she had extra cash to loan a ticket to Marian. Not the actions and attitudes of someone who is living with lack. So happy they are going over the history of black elites that is never represented in anything I have seen.
It was really telling to see Marion entering Peggy’s world. The cringe-worthy boot scene really highlights the stereotypes inherent in the assumptions made by even the purportedly “well-intentioned” people of the time. To know that this type of behavior was likely some of the better treatment that Peggy would receive daily from the white people she encountered is maddening and sad.
I get that but...The moment I saw the old boots i burst out laughing long and hard.
@@slitor it was such cheesy to boot!
Lovvved this episode, both the series and this podcast. I learned so much and just ordered Carla Peterson’s book from my library.
I'll wait ... I was a bit confused and surprised to see the episode 4 podcast was up already!
Mr Fellows' scene with Marian giving Peggy shoes - especially in such a way, is absolutely absurd. There's so many aspects wrong with the whole thing, that i'm flabbergasted. What was he thinking? He's normally an excellent writer.
Aki Eotwawki... at least you're laying the blame where the blame is due.
I doubt Marian was aware of Peggy's middle class status. She is black, works as a secretary... as for her clothes it was normal at that time that ladies gave away their clothes after one season to their maids, so Marian probably thought Peggy's mum or other relatives gave her such clothes given to them by their "masters".
@Dina M Exactly it was a huge stretch. If she were getting rid of those boots, she would have at least asked in a casual manner at home. She would not have taken used boots in a carpet bag across town to show up uninvited at someone else's house.
It was a horrible unreal scene. I hope Marian takes Peggy at her word when she says she is not her friend. Marian needs to completely ignore Peggy as Peggy requested
I’m torn, I want to listen to this now, but the episode isn’t out yet!
What was Peggy doing in PA, when she met Marian Brook?
Peggy went to the Institute for Colored Youth in Philadelphia, so maybe she had to change trains at Doylestown in passing from Philadelphia to New York.
remember she's seeing the lawyer regarding law specifically to PA. we will find out later i suppose.
love getting to see black people who beat the odds during that time it’s inspiring
Marian forgot that Peggy bought her a train ticket when she was bereft of funds. I am so glad she reminded her. I wonder why the shop was shocked when Peggy went into the shop with Marian. They would have assumed she was her servant come to carry her packages and surely, they would have seen that before. Just wondering. FYI, the great Lena Horne came from one of those elite Black families in Brooklyn.
They didn't shop with their servants, they didn't need to. The store would have carried everything
for her, those stores had staff and footmen that catered to wealthy women. They they would have delivered everything she purchased to her home. She would not have carried anything, not even money. So yeah a woman of color walking into that sort of shop would have been a surprise.
@@jefflewis4 Thank you for the information. That is fascinating. No wonder the scandalous woman had a footman carrying her lovely box. Now that is how to be a super shopper LOL.
Loved tonight’s podcast
This is by far the best Podcast episode of the show
Thanks to the many who put this beautiful, large, and lavish production together. It's so well-done on so many levels and the attention to historical detail is fantastic. Perhaps someone could shed some light on something. I'm fascinated at Mrs. Van Rhijn's ready and open acceptance of Peggy Scott. Bannister as well. I'm happy to see such a range of reactions to the presence of let alone invitation into the house of a black woman in 1882, even as sophisticated as Peggy Scott is. Educate me. Are there letters or documentation from the period that show such open acceptance of black men and women by whites at this time. I love it, but Mrs. van Rhijn and Bannister seem almost too progressive for their time and status. Is this degree of open acceptance being accurately depicted? Any insight is appreciated. Thank you.
I Dont think so. I dont think Mrs. Van Rhijn, who's conservative to the bones, would be THAT progressive.
IMHO this is just an attempt to make the drama more PC, like The Bridgerton.
@@cherylrleigh1912 Thank you for sharing this! These nuances re: what the characters will and won't accept based on their upbringing/beliefs really shows how much care and attention to detail was put into this wonderful show.
Also Agnes would not have to pay Peggy as much as a white secretary with the same skill set plus they were indebted to her for saving their airhead niece at the train station.
@@azabujuban-hito8085 You would be wrong in assuming that. There were pockets of white people who were progressive in that way even then.
@@cherylrleigh1912 Did not know the history of Institute for Colored Youth. Very interesting. I knew there were a few, very few such institutions, but nothing specific about them. Glad to know this. Thank you.
Love the way they are peeling Peggy life back..well done 👍
How is the podcast out before the show is aired?
Peggy dresses nice and she is educated. I don’t understand the mindset that she must be extremely poor needing old boots for her family.
I assumed Peggy was going to be like gossip girl. 😂 Only because she was super amped on staying in the Van Rhijn home and being super close to Asters 400. (Im lame).
We need season 2 please I love this show
I'm going to wait to watch the episode before I listen to this, The show doesn't come out until 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time on Mondays both on HBO channel and on HBO Max. Perhaps the person uploading the podcast could wait until the actual episode is up?
i luv ur podcast....also show different images from the show......wow thank u
"There's always an angle with the Russells"...so nobody else is manipulative and ruthless in deals and arranged marriages? Did you even watch episode 3?
Thank you
WE ALSO HAD BLACK OLD MONEY OF NEWYORK AS WELL
With all due respect to the hosts, I’d like to explore parts of this episode more with someone who understands nuances and stories of the black elites more. Think there were follow up questions and avenues of discussion they could have explored more e.g. black gaze vs. white gaze. Also I’d like to ask the director to confirm that it was intentional for some viewers to realize that, prior to Marian’s ill advised surprise trip to Brooklyn, that Scotts were wealthy and that some other viewers would not pick up on those somewhat obvious clues.
LOVE this podcast! Dr. Erica Armstrong Dunbar is a rockstar.
I'm glad to be born and raised in Brooklyn I decided from such people .
I don’t much detail but I’m hoping that Peggys story might take up alignment with that of Condolezza Rice. S1Ep4 of Henry Gates did sing your roots.
At this point Peggy actually has bigger brighter prospects than Marion! So that seen with the shoes was so embarrassing, ignorant & shameful.
Thank you for your work. I'm learning so much from your podcast. Before listening to your latest episode, I wasn't at all familiar with Plessy v. Ferguson.
I found the scene where Bertha Russel barges in her husband’s office not realistic! She would never intrude on his office time like that , not even knocking the door!!!! Maybe it’s just me but I think the mores of the time women still held second place.
Great show
I also agree that he would have fired the maid by making up some excuse. He wouldn’t put up with that behavior!
Why was the podcast episode out before the show aired? Great seeing familiar buildings transformed while knowing their exact exteriors in present day.
ETA: George Russell should have canned the maid and create a reason with Bertha. Turner is NO O’Brien (Downton Abbey).
Definitely did not presume the Scotts to be poor. If she were a Quaker like her aunts, she ought to have known better.
BRAVO !
How is the podcast out before the episode?
Let's speak on the two different kinds of black elite and the colorism in which it was formed. Like the Blue vain society( the almost white club)
@15:05 I covered my eyes too, Tom, though I did I notice they removed Morgan Spector's tattoo. I really really hope Turner doesn't do anything sinister to Bertha in future episodes.
Ohhhh yeah better believe the scheming has just begun
Downturd Abbey and Gonorrhead Age are my two most favourite TV series!
yea i felt bad peggy told marian they were not friends. Poor Marian comes from the country and is gullible to all these rules. I would be crying yall
How can you put up a podcast BEFORE we can even watch the show?!
I’m gonna listen to the other podcasts there’s so much information herr
For the life of me I cannot figure out why Marion doesn't think that Peggy has money Peggy's clothing is amazing and expensive!
Not me running to see if they dropped the new episode early or something…
As anyone figured out what legal matter Attorney Raikes is handling for Ms. Scott?
I hate having to wait. Why the torture? 😆😆
How many episodes of The Guilded Age will there be (this season)?? The show, not the podcasts.
I believe that there will be 9 episodes this first season.
@@MCHorton55 Thank you very much. (How frustrating!! I'm so into it already.)
I don't think it's fair for Peggy to be mad, she's been very tight lipped about her life with no explanation. Marion's life is out there for everyone so even Peggy to see. I think the anger should have been reversed she hid her life how can she know
I am predicting that Watson (the bald servant of the Russells) is Mrs. Chamberlain's son. He's not in Chicago. She may not know that yet.
You just blew my brain open… 🤔 hmmm
Is Patrick Morris based on an actual person during this time period?
While it is lovely to have photos during the podcast it would nice to have picture stills related to each episode. As
at present the current pictures are detracting from the podcast.
What day episode 4 is show ?
Why is the podcast out when the episode hasn't aired yet?
Yes the original Republicans was called the rebel Republicans who championed the end of slavery . The Democrats was known then as the Dixiecrats who championed succession and the stronghold of slavery
They release the podcast before the newest episode airs?
As a Mixed race person i was extremely disappointed to discover the erasure of T. Thomas Fortune the editor . We barely get any representation in fictional stories and they replace us in historical stories to make people feel more comfortable.
Whyyyy put out spoilers before the episodes air though? 🤔
It looks like it may have been a mistake. However, I’m not sure why this is a big issue, people can come back and listen.
A day early!
I'd love to see podcasters faces! Why to hide? :)
❣️❣️😍❣️❣️😍❣️❣️😍
Why is Bertha Russell so mean to her daughter Gladys? She so controlling and condescending to the poor girl. Could Bertha be planning to marry her off to British aristocracy like so many rich heiress’s from the time.
Most definitely, a duke nonetheless which is second below to royalty. This shows that many can’t buy class, and there’s different between New world - old money and Old world - ancient Feudalist money
Why didn’t the Crowleys have a nice, polite butler like Bannister instead of that insufferably snobbish, uptight and inflexible Carson? Carson was awful.