Why I Stopped Wearing Motorcycle Body Armour
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2024
- These pads are useless; get an airbag: frt9.co/ffkrh5
Rukka D3O XTR (CE exceeding, massive pads that work): frt9.co/d5xm7f
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It's worth mentioning that EN17092 tests garments with the pads *removed*. Meaning a AAA jacket or pant, which has been drop tested on the Darmstadt machine at 120kph, will still slide to a highway-speed stop without costing you skin (70kph for AA, 45kph for A). C-class garments have no abrasion resistance criteria whatsoever; this would be something like a mesh chassis for holding armour. Obviously, removing the pads from that would be silly, since its only purpose is to hold armour and you might as well wear a T-shirt instead.
On that note, there *are* hero companies that make pads to greatly exceed CE 2 size and attenuation requirements. Aside from the Dainese back pad I showed, Rukka's D3O XTR comes to mind (link in description). Those pads are huge compared to the Type B template, and size matters if you're going to rely on pads to get to wherever your abrasion comfort level is. We don't always slide precisely on our shoulders, elbows and knees. It's usually the butt.
We all have our own equations for balancing comfort v. practicality v. safety, which is why I made a point of *not* telling people to take the armour out of their jackets (twice!). Fortunately the CE standards make it fairly clear what your gear can and can't do, enabling us all to choose the stuff that achieves whatever we're after. ~RF9
Apologies that my first comment on one of my favourite channels is a criticism.
EN1621-2 is the standard for back protection. The Limb Joint Protectors used in the video are covered by EN1621-1.
My biggest question to this (and I have many) would be are there quality stand-alone armor makers whose armor is worth replacing the substandard stuff with? And if so who are they?
Great video. Thanks for the educational perspective.
@@dmoooooooo : D3O, Forcefield, Knox, Rheon and SAS-Tec, to name but five - although to refer to other manufacturers’ components as “substandard” is inaccurate. They pass the standard, so are not substandard; it is simply that some producers use superior materials or engineer their products to exceed the requirements set by the standard.
Thank you, another great video that actually brings information and data!
One comment / question though, is how does this relate to offroad riding?
I ride hard enduro, so when I fall, it's never at 120 MPH on asphalt. It's more at 10-25 MPH on gravel / rocks / dirt. And I think that these pads are very useful in spreading the absorbed force, so instead of being poked by pointy gravel, the hit is spread somewhat evenly across the surface of the pad, reducing the overall absorbed force (I believe quite more dramatically compared to the asphalt test).
So, what is your opinion on using pads for offroad?
As an orthopaedic surgeon (and a motociclist) I can say that its easier (and got better results) to fix lower Energy fracture than higher energy fractures... So, the benefit of using this gear may not protect you from having that fracture in the first place, but may shield you from months of reabilitation and permanent pain and limitation.
Thanks mate, very helpful comment
Absolutely!
Is a high energy fracture determined by the speed of the mechanism of injury or the newtons applied to the bone? Just out of curiosity.
Touche!
This is how I feel about it. It's not always about prevention, just protection.
having pads in my jeans is worth it just for the many times I'm on my knees trying to fix my moto on the side of the road
Riding a Harley 😂😂😂
Haha. Truth 👍
And a 2 stroke
He rides a ducati. Italian pasta
Keep the pads on and get something more reliable
I’m an ER doc. I know armour won’t help in worst case, high energy scenario’s, but it helps mitigate the contusions, abrasions and lacerations in the kind of spills we are more likely to suffer. I had a low speed mishap riding off road in Iceland and diced up the elbows and arms of my riding jacket on volcanic rock. I had a few minor scratches from punctures through the Cordura fabric in the unpadded areas, but without armour protection it would have been a long complicated journey to a distant hospital to suture up contaminated, complex lacerations that would have terminated my bucket list trip. Some dabs of Polysporin for the skin and duct tape for the jacket and I was good to go.
Agreed. Even minimal protection can be the difference between a lesser injury and a severe injury. Early on in my riding days I had a lower speed crash where my left foot got pinned by the footrest and drug underneath the bike as I slid. I had worn basic "steel" toe boots and they prevented the footrest from impaling my foot. Still hurt, still injured, but it was the difference between literally walking away or visiting someone like you.
Hey Internet why isn't this the comment with 14k likes?
THIS! Fortnine is only looking at the "fracture" or "not fracture" binary, and completely ignoring the fact that fracture severity is a spectrum that runs from hairline to shattered, and that spectrum is directly correlated with impact force. Armor reduces force received by your body, which reduces injury severity.
@@Ghazrin Most dmg comes from sliding on concrete, for that the armor works just fine.
I agree. I like Ryan F9 but he is FOS on this one. I've crashed before at (going less than 60km) and the armor protected my knees. I was able to walk away with no need for rehab. An airbag is not going to protect you if you are going fast enough and hit something hard enough.
If Nike, Coach or Levis, wanted to get in the market, then putting body armor in their clothes, then it would not be that hard.
I have fallen on pavement wearing a fully padded jacket and a pair of regular jeans. my hip was bruised, my knee was F'ed up for about three months, but my elbow, which hit the ground first, wasn't even bruised, nor was my shoulder or any other part of my upper body. Armor makes a difference, the 50J impact is just a number used for testing purposes, most likely to ensure that the armor will endure an unrealistically hard hit even if your bones wont.
After that i high-sided on a hard packed dirt road going about 60 km/h, flew over the handlebars and hit the ground 5m in front of the bike. This time i was wearing padded jeans as well. Not a single bruise, got up and lifted my bike back up. Had I not been wearing armor my elbow would have been shattered and my knees wouldn't have been much better off.
Don't spread misinformation, of course armor protects you from fractures, use common sense and don't over-analyze a lab test.
Dude, it's not about your personal experience which could differ from a statistical viewpoint, since your experience could be a statistical anomaly for the intended study.
@@asfandelfi think his point is that Ryan is missing the point a bit. Yeah at a certain point the impact will break bones regardless of weather or not you are wearing armor. But there is a threshold where armor protects, at lower speeds and forces. Those lower speeds you are also more likely to have an accident.
You are spot on there... if my armour saved my skin from looking like grated cheese then it works.... I know of several riders that have no bruises or skin abrasions etc due to their armour... any high speed impact will take anyone out no matter what you are wearing... bottom line is... rather be safe than sorry
You’re right check out bennet bike social
@@asfandelf The statistics only look at actually injured people in armor. It is a well known bias called survivorship bias as it does not account for those that were completely uninjured, but would be otherwise injured without armor.
Even a minor scrape saved by just wearing armor makes it worth it, as instead of taking off your gear to treat the scrape turns to dusting yourself off and riding on.
F9s video will however create a discord in the industry most likely. Higher demand for airbags which over time will make them more affordable and reliable. A better padding as F9 is correct - you do not need to stand out in the game, someone who cares about spine armor (e.g. motocross riders) will buy a separate high end piece anyway making a built in one often redundant. So slap in the one that has been ok for like 15 years and claim you have the spine armor or back protector and charge extra for it. It will protect you from most injures but it does not cover a tailbone for example.
In the end despite this video being misinformative, it will most likely be a net positive since it may create an actual demand for high end protective clothing from people that considered what they got good enough. My Meteor 350 can't really go at speeds where 50J impacts happen. So for a rider like me a B-type is pretty much ok. And most motorbikes in the world are lower displacement than mine, as most people ride 250s, 125s and such. Sure a guy on a litre bike going at 250kmph will not be saved by anything short of a miracle but most riders do not ride like that. Most riders that ride very (the ones that are statistically more likely to be in an accident) often ride at 80-100kmph at most. Be if for lack of power, wind fatigue, safety, obeying the laws and/or fuel economy most riders I have met just flow with the traffic and 1 in a 100 goes the 200 on a straight. But you only see the 1 in 100 (and that is confirmation bias), not the 99 other riders that just went at the speed limit and did not rev at 8k RPM nor swish past you.
I kid you not there was a crash outside my window yesterday. On the camera you see 8 bikes going at speed limit (50) but one bike went 70. That one bike had right of way but a van driver did not see him and went into his way. And everyone in the comments was "those damn bikers, all of them are speeding daredevils". As they genuinely watched a 15s video where 8 bikes went at/under the speed limit.
Wait... did he just... DID HE JUST ROCK A 6 MINUTE SINGLE TAKE?!?! Respect.
...... and arriving at the point where the back armour and airbag backpack were waiting under the tree in blossom at EXACTLY the right moment. Genius!
@@Bazza.baz224 I think his buddy probably placed it there just before he arrived. But yeah, good take.
Now I remember that I miss Tom Scott
Better than Goodfellas camera following Copacabana club visitors :)
I guess there were 5-10 failed takes )
Body Armor is redundant as I ride around in chain mail and knight armour anyways.
Chain mail probs slide for awhile
Everything about this was serious until I read this comment. Died and came back to life laughing.
chain mail itself is a redundant term, simply call it mail or get out.
Nothing measures up to full plate armor!
I would ride naked but I think there are laws against it. So in summer I wear a T-shirt and shorts. Works!
This video has started a huge debate that will surely improve impact protection on jackets , improve standards for jackets and better rider understanding on how protection works and what to buy.
For this alone , it was worth it. Thanks !
Or does it just encourage a lot more people to ride without gear duh
Yeah. I agree. He's very influential and so many riders might just stop wearing protective gear because to them what he says is gospel truth. Maybe he should've spent more time in clarifying his disclaimer because it's scary for riders to just drop everything and stop wearing gear
I think you will have to have a large contingent of the motorcycle riding community to, en mass, approach the manufacturers and demand better protection and variety (of size of pads) before they would voluntarily do such an expensive venture. But keep up the hope!
@@_titojoe they didn't listen very well then. He stopped wearing the slide in pads, because he's wearing different armor / airbag. Not because he settled wearing any protection. That only discusses his upper body back armor. He didn't talk about other parts.
He is wearing either an airbag or fancy external back armor. He didn't stop and wear nothing. He didn't even say that the regular stuff was without utility, just not good enough.
Lol.
Remember the difference between an open and a closed fracture? That is pretty important. They will also save you on any low speed crash.
This is similar to complaining that you died in a car crash and that the car is not 'protective enough' while having hit a wall at 100km/h. You did hit a wall at 100km/h.
Unfortunately, lack of quality armour is how we lost Ryan F9.
This is his clone, Ryan F10.
AI bots are getting real
What happened to Ryan F1 - F8?
@@michaeladler3035 Like in Resident Evil - they were just failed prototypes ;)
@@michaeladler3035 failed to make it out of the test tubes
😂
I'm an EMT. Been one for going on 13 years. I've seen more than my fair share of moto accidents. I can't say that gear has ever really prevented a fracture or not, but one thing I do think MUST be mentioned, that moto gear (with or without armor) DOES DO INSANELY WELL, is ABRASION resistance. Yes, a broken bone sucks, but I've seen a woman's breast belt sanded off by the asphalt because she only had on a sweatshirt. Down to the bone.
Anecdotally, I have lowsided before at a pretty pedestrian 25-30mph. Armored jacket, regular denim pants. The jacket took the hit and I had no bruise or injury on my arm. The road went through my pants like they were tissue paper and I have a softball sized scar on my knee now. Armor wouldn't have really mattered there, but a pant with abrasion resistance absolutely would have.
So while I can't critique the argument against armored pads because I'm not an expert on the literature and most severe motorcycle accidents I've seen have had broken bones with and without armor, I can say that road rash can be a nightmare and have never seen road rash on an area where someone was wearing proper gear, and ALWAYS seen it on every single person that wasn't wearing any.
To that end, I think it's a bit of a disservice to leave that part of the equation hanging and not mentioned. That airbag is going to save you from a broken clavicle, but if you aren't wearing an abrasion resistant layer as well, the road might well grind your skin, fat and muscles down to the bone. We call those chest protectors with no sleeves "organ donor vests" for a reason.
I hope people read this and take your advice rather than do as Ryan says he does. Road rash is a motherf***er to say the least and anything to help prevent it is a positive. I have a “tattooed” left forearm where my shitty cuff button broke during a slide and let my sleeve roll up. Would have been a lot worse if it wasn’t there for any of the slide, not to mention the rest of me that the leather jacket was still covering.
abrasion resistance should have been poited out better. but playing devil's advocate the video doesn't promote
no gear , only no pads
Or rather, that the common pads aren't worthwhile
pads are not for abrasion. They suck at it. Video is talking about effectiveness of pads for what they are intended - impact dissipation. This is why he choose remove pads FROM a JACKET, not get rid of a jacket.
Yeah I hit a deer last year and was completely geared up head to toe and even though I broke multiple ribs and bones including ones in my face under my Shoei helmet, every doctor, police and EMT said my gear saved my life. And later after investigating my gear I did notice my level 2 pads were ground down and took plenty of abuse. So it’s probably a useless point but the pads did help too. The only abrasion I had was where the hip pad wore through.
Been riding for 59 years. Raced for ten of those years. Got my engineering degree in 1977. I am quite familiar with the good and the bad with respect to research, publishing results, and suffering through the broad spectrum of interpretation and hidden agendas. Motorcycle gear is about abrasion resistance, period. Nothing short of a fully-inflated pneumatic bubble-boy suit, which would make a motorcycle completely unridable, will stop broken bones, dislocations, etc. Motorcycle airbags are a primitive attempt to create an instant bubble-boy suit with thus far inconclusive results. Promising anecdotes, yes, but definitive repeatable results, no. Regardless of what the original design intentions were or are, and regardless of the testing methods involved in creating ratings, pads in motorcycle gear are also about abrasion resistance, period. Every once in a while they might prevent or minimize a minor bruise, but that's it. Off-road, some of the hard plastic armour can sometimes prevent puncture wounds from tree branches and rocks, but they are also not going to prevent broken bones, etc. From my multiple personal experiences, broken bones heal fairly painlessly, all things considered. Abrasions and soft tissue damage, especially if they include skin grafts, are among the longest recovery time and most painful injuries. Look up Mick Doohan. Keep your pads in your gear, and just remember that the best way to prevent broken bones is to use your head for something other than modeling the latest helmet graphics.
Ryan - individual industry research papers, regardless of the industry, are meant to be taken as merely one data point in a broader research effort incorporating multiple avenues of research and experimentation. They are guidelines for creating a theory, which drives a hypothesis, which in turn drives a proposal for an experiment, which if done properly done produces repeatable results under controlled circumstances to either verify or disprove the hypothesis. Gathering anecdotal results created under varying uncontrolled circumstances ain't science, it is merely anecdotal data compilation, similar in concept to circumstantial evidence in legal circles, i.e., while it does tend to point one in a certain direction, it does not conclusively prove anything. Be careful with your hypotheses, and I hope your personal amourless experiment does not produce unfortunate results which would make you physically incapable of repeating the experiment in the future.
As a motorcyclist myself who's been around couple of accidents, I STRONGLY DISAGREE with Ryan on this.
I have been in a crash which fractured both my femur and my hand. Yes I was wearing an armoured jacket, knee pads and stuff and I was disappointed with its performance. I felt like wearing it was not worth it at all, having to deal with this mess.
But this was before my wife met with an accident. She was on a scooter and the crash was on city speeds and didn't have any riding gear. She had a minor fracture which was not much to comment on. But the skin she lost - it took months of plastic surgery, hospitalization and the scars it made have still not healed after an year.
As for me, I walked away in under 3 months, with just a week or two of hospitalization despite having two major fractures. That riding gear saved me a lot of time and pain by keeping my skin intact.
Wasn't the point of the video only talking about pads not being effective? He said he still wears abrasion resistance.
The point of F9 is riding gear won't help with fracturing injuries and only the abrasives.
I totally agree with you but wasn't the whole point of the video to be a 1st April sketch?
@@eloquentsloth6080The pad plays a role when it comes to abrasions. The riding gear mesh will still give you scratches and minor wounds.
Just sad to know the industry only meets the minimum requirements. And doesn't do much to actually protect against breaks and fractures 😢
On behalf of Liz de Rome:
In the research paper (AAP, 2011), we reported that riders wearing motorcycle clothing fitted with impact protection (IP) were significantly less likely to sustain any injuries than were riders wearing motorcycle clothing without IP and those wearing non-motorcycle clothing. The analysis compared injured and uninjured riders by level of protection taking other factors into account such as crash type, object impacted and speed.
We were able to demonstrate significant reductions in open wound injuries associated with level of protection, but not fractures. In our discussion, we explain that the study sample (n=212) was too small to determine statistically significant evidence for the reduction of fractures. This is because fractures represent just 15% of riders’ injuries, compared to 71% soft tissue injuries across a population sample of crashed motorcycle riders. We strongly recommend that riders continue to wear impact protectors.
Associate Professor Liz de Rome.
Great for a direct response from one of the sources. Let's get this upvoted!
Bennetts Insurance (UK) have done a response video, including interviewing one of those quoted in F9's video 👍
Source is too old to be relevant. Any paper older than 5 years should be scrutinized; older than 10 should not be used.
@@springer91977why do you think research gets outdated after 5 years.
@@PumpKing96Because turkeys borrow low resolution statements and mis apply them in the hopes they will sound smarter than they really are. The use-by date on research relevance is multi-factorial and differs across topics being studied. Ignore the turkey.
Those studies don’t capture the 1000s of people who crash wearing the protection with no injury. Only the injured get captured in the data, similar to a survivorship bias.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, THANK YOU! I'm keeping my pads ON.
This is a really good point, thanks for understanding statistics
Bingo
Great Point!!
Indeed, the study cited is among crashes with known injuries. Not crashes without injuries, protection or not.
"THEY ASK EACH PERSON WHAT THEY WERE WEARING," left that part out.
Couple of thoughts from another perspective:
The way I understand it, I don't believe Ryan is saying that armour is bad. I think what he's saying is that at this stage it is insufficiently protective. This is not a call for armour to be done away with altogether, but to be made into something actually useful. Realistically, airbags are going to be the way forward but there will always a place in the market for high-tech, slim, unnoticeable, highly attenuating protection, it just needs to be developed better.
Secondly, having read many of the things that were said in response, I'm struck by something else. We have this very peculiar, defeatist mentality in biking. This comment section is galore with anecdotes of how people have crashed and had it not been for the armour in their gear, they wouldn't have been able to walk away without serious injury. We say things like "dress for the slide, not the ride", ie don't worry about your riding, there's nothing you can do to improve your skills, worry about the inevitable crash you're going to experience. It strikes me that many people climb atop the saddle fully expecting to crash, as part of the experience. Surely, if you think that you have so little control over your riding, that you're guaranteed to crash, you really shouldn't be riding in the first place?! I mean, why would you willingly put yourself in a situation where you risk serious injury, and thus feel the need to spend thousands on mitigating for that circumstance? Surely, the best course of action is to just avoid it altogether and not ride? I'm obviously being facetious, nobody wants to crash and everyone does their utmost to avoid it, but I do think we've become a little too comfortable with the idea of having accidents. We've started to rely on the properties of protective gear a little too much. We seem to have gotten into the habit of repeating the old mantras, to the point where we've convinced ourselves of the almost magical properties of gear. See where I'm going with this? My point simply is that it wouldn't harm us to consider its downsides and have a sober think once in a while about what it actually does for us.
My favourite criticism of this video is that telling people that armour might be useless is "irresponsible". Oh, so it's perfectly responsible to tell people to get on top of a hot engine, with a flammable liquid above it, and accelerate to speeds humans were not designed to travel at, a meter off the ground, partaking in an activity that is tens of times more dangerous and deadly than any other form of transit... but you draw the line at removing some flimsy rubber pads that weren't even designed to do what they're expected to from their gear. Seems your priorities might be slightly off.
Remember a few (like 15) years ago when there was a big hubbub about helmet ratings? And how the Snell standard was great when it came out, but maybe hadn't really kept up with industry capabilities? And there was a big study in one of the magazines about how the stiffer Snell rating transferred more energy to the skull than the softer CE rating? And how Snell was testing all of their helmet sizes with heads that weighed the same, despite obvious changes in volume? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
I think Ryan may have just started another industry brushfire like that.
Credit to the cameraman for walking backwards for six minutes without falling over.
gimble with face tracking, you do not need to watch the camera, sorry to spoil the magic
I envision a person holding a camera. Being pulled along while sitting in a red rider wagon using camera stabilization. lol
Too dangerous for the cameraman .It’s Ryan who was walking backward and talking in reverse. They just had to reverse the video afterwards.
I thought most camera have rotatable screen, no?
Yeah, and the producer, leading that cameraman every step of the way. And perhaps another one or 2 people.
The more I see the way the gear companies and government use outdated and shoddy standards really makes me think that their priority is making people feel safe rather than actually being safe, because feeling safe is much cheaper then being safe.
Their priority is cars, I feel.
OSHA's pyramid of dangerous materials (you've seen this pyramid at every government facility) places personal protective equipment such as gloves, helmets, suit, etc... as the least effective of form of protection. And PPE is almost always the cheapest option. Doing things like actually separating the danger from people, or controlling who can handle these items, or training everyone how to handle dangerous items, is a lot more expensive.
Another example would be keeping firearms out of everyone's hands, keeping it out of untrained hands, training everyone to use firearms, and finally wearing bullet resistant vests.
Yeah... I bought an FIM helmet for my motorcycle since I figured the single most important thing to protect was my head. Turns out the government where I live will only allow you to race track with a Snell helmet. FIM and ECE are considered "inferior" according to the government here, despite all the evidence they have it backwards.
@@langhamp8912you forgot the "make bulletproof backpacks and lunchboxes for elementary school students" option that we seem to be running with here in the States
In my province I can’t wear a helmet that’s ec22 rated but I can wear a helmet from a 30 year defunct csa standard.
Ryan F9’s videos are always very well produced, usually entertaining and thought provoking, and often informative. Does that mean the take-away message is always in the viewer’s best interest?
Ryan may well have said he can’t tell you to take the armour out of your jacket (etc.) because amongst other things it may, “by some statistical anomaly”, save you a fracture; but he has a lot of influence, and many people may well ditch their armour in favour of a bit more comfort, as he said he does. I would not recommend that.
I’ve had many minor motorcycle spills and two major accidents. In the first, where my bike and the other's car were written off, I was wearing good gear with the standard armour exactly where it should have been, i.e. wrapped snugly around my joints which were naturally the touch points as I bounced along the road. Result: no fractures, just some bruises and muscle strain. In the second major accident, I was wearing an equally good jacket with the same standard armour, however due to my preference on the hot day for COMFORT, my jacket was partly unzipped down the front and this led to my shoulder armour being nudged out of place on impact. Result: anterior dislocation of shoulder and multiple fractures leading to full-arm immobilization for six weeks. The second accident was at half the speed, but otherwise quite similar, yet the result from displaced armour was much worse.
If you wear your armour correctly, it won’t be merely a “statistical anomaly” which may save you a fracture, it’ll be the armour.
A back protector protects your back, nothing else. An airbag protects your torso (and its precious contents), nothing else. These are both great (and expensive best-sellers at Fort Nine, obviously), but only part of a comprehensive protection regime. Having no armour for your elbows, shoulders, hips and knees - in exchange for comfort - is plain daft IMHO. I’m sure Ryan could have made his point about wanting better standards in a more responsible way.
Regarding the AAP 2011 paper, I suspect from my own experience and that of other experienced riders I know, that if the researchers had a statistically significant sample, they would indeed have found a benefit to fracture reduction, but alas too few riders were in the data. I’ll keep wearing my joint/limb armour, well-fitted, as professional racers do, and I’ll keep recommending it to others. Absorbing some impact energy, and distributing residual energy will in pretty much all cases mitigate injury at the impact point. Why the hell do we wear helmets instead of beanies?
"Life is so beautiful, our instinct is going to be to protect it. But our imperative, we have to remember, is to appreciate it."
There are a number of issues with that research that I noticed as a researcher myself. First off the n (number of cases for x) for many of the categories are too small to derive reasonable statistical significance. Second it does not take into account the severity of the accidents for each case, which adds a massive statistical confound to the data. There is not sufficient data present to derive anything really. Also the studies for airbags on motorcycles are practically non existent for road users, and most airbags on the market offer little protection for legs, arms, and shoulders. Legs/feet are also the largest source of injury in most accidents. We do need better protection and better standards, but some protection in most cases will be better with none, I would rather hit the road with something to help cushion the landing. Airbags are not a perfect replacement for padding, they can fail to deploy, or break on impact, or be punctured. I use both pads and an airbag.
Wow , the voice of reason gets the least likes , yikes !
Well said, we got to be very careful when looking at those reports, generally speaking , since in most cases they try to correlate fractures/padding presence but the crash mechanism is completely lost, the amount of energy either and, I know friends who brought motorbike jeans and...didn't adjust knee D3O CE level 2, for instance...
Yes, we want higher and more representative standards. How can we put this in practice?
Let's make it happens, Ryan.
LegBags... feel free to do all the work and pay me for the name lol
The worst thing about the token protection is it feels so restrictive to move that I feel more likely to crash while wearing it... so I don't wear it it.
I also do research for a living. If you pause the video at 2:28 and look down the column "Fracture %", the lowest values are almost all on the rows reading "Yes with Body Armor", meaning Yes to Motorcycle Jacket, then Yes to Motorcycle Gloves, then Yes to Motorcycle Pants and so on. Fractures are higher with motorcycle gloves than without them, but overall injuries are much higher without motorcycle gloves - duh. It's an odd outcome, but the number of cases is really too small for any statistical significance, certainly no p-value less than 0.05.
As a daily, year round rider, who has been part of a group ride that went very, very wrong ending in a Life Flight helicopter ride for the guy with the broken thigh bone, I can tell you that our two crash victims were wearing modular helmets. Both had scratched up visors after bad wrecks, but both fully protected the heads and faces of their wearers. Having witnessed it, I wouldn't be caught dead without a helmet whatever the statistics say. After all, there are statistics and then there is what happens to YOU.
100% agree. However, if a meta-analyzes are performed they change the n. They could also potentially account for the confounding if severity is reported.
As someone that had a 10-15mph lowside in the BRC with no pads on legs, torso, and arms, I can tell you the bruising I got on my left knee and elbow was horrendous, lasting for about 2 weeks leaving me unable to work out or do anything strenuous.
Over the winter I lowsided at roughly 2 times the speed of the BRC lowside, so 4 times the impact forces. However, this time I had CE level 2 pads in elbows, shoulders, back, hips, and knees. I walked away with nothing but a headache and was working out the next day.
I really appreciate Ryan's philosophy on people making their own decisions, and just making sure they have all the information to make a well informed decision. For me, it's absolutely worth wearing the pads if it means there's a greater chance I won't be nearly bedridden for days.
I think your examples are where the padded armor is best - sliding with minimal impacts. I agree I will wear it just because why not, but I know if there is an impact I'm getting a break.
This! I (knock on wood) haven't had an unplanned on-road get off in a LONG time. However, I have ridden with dozens of people who have. I have seen the aftermath of *SLIDES* with and without armor. I ride with the best armor I can tolerate. I am sure that in high sides and multi-vehicle impacts, the presence or lack of a little foam pad is of little consequence.
But, most accidents (not even reported) are not written up by a cop. The perpetrator tries to slink away before a COP shows up and adds insult to injury with a performance award such as: "Failure to maintain control of vehicle." Wearing good riding gear helps the road rash a lot, and the pads help with that too. So, I wonder about the validity of those surveys. Are the group of riders with and without armor reporting the accident results at the same rate? Perhaps riders with armor were able to sneak away from an accident scene and pretend like it was no big deal, and they aren't fully represented in the data.
One time about 30+ years ago, I hit a small slick patch on an exit ramp. I low sided and slid to the outside of the curve. No impact and I got up and saw just a grayish frayed patch on my jacket. I picked up my bike noted the ground down parts, and the broken brake lever and turn signal. I then finished my ride to work. When I got to work and took off my outer layer, and then the inner down layer, and then the fleece liner, I noticed that my elbow had a patch the size of two quarters that looked like melted mozzarella cheese, it stuck to the fleece and came off, leaving a wet weeping raw meat underneath. The fleece, the down coat, and the outer layer were mostly fine, but the outer layer looked like I had scuffed it.
If there had been a small pad there, I don't think I would have had that burn.
I've had a 30kph lowside in Kevlar with no pads and have a scar to show for it.
I've also T-boned a car and gone flying in a cheap armored jacket and wasn't even bruised.
Anecdotal yes, but I'll at least stick to some flexible C1 personally.
Totally agree with above ❤
Lol at a 2 week bruise being "Horrendous" , people are weak today...
In all of my on and offroad crashes, I have never once thought, man I wish I didnt have these pads on. I understand the point your'e conveying, but my knees and elbows have always been grateful for my padding. Im keeping my road armor.
Ryan, I fell 15 years ago. Jacket, helmet, boots, did the job. I wasn't wearing gloves. It still hurt sometimes... now I ride only fully armed.
That's why CE gloves are now mandatory if you ride in some countries, like France. And that's a really good thing.
I prefer not to need a law to dictate what is the best for self. But there are too many idiots unfortunately.
@@atomsmasher12 Some people are so oblivious to the danger that the law is sometimes needed to impose a minimum level of safety. Hands are systematically exposed in a fall, even at low speed.
In the same way, I wouldn't be shocked if bikers were forbidden to ride in shorts and flip-flops, as I've already seen in the south of France.
No gear necessary at all, if you don't crash. If you do, you'll be grateful for every scrap of gear you're wearing, even if its an extra bit of padding. My armor pieces are staying in!
I took my pads out, to provide more room for extra clothing layers. (I ride nearly every day of the year) I wear an Immortal Chest Protector with the shoulder pads from my jacket & an Axial2 Back Pad zip tied to the inside of it. I wear an EVO 2 Racing Collar that helps provide my head & neck with the maximum amount of protection from the cold. It also helps support the weight of my helmet directly onto the hard plastic shoulders of my Chest Protector, which allows me to ride for extremely long distances without getting a sore neck.
The elbow pads in my jacket began to irritate my funny bone, so I found more comfort, warmth and protection from wearing External Elbow Pads with Forearm Protection.
This gives me the ultimate upper body protection from accidents & from the elements.
(Superior comfort, especially in cold weather).
Something like the helite turtle he showed at the end is still a no brainer in my book
there are 2 types of riders
those that have gone down
&
those that are going to go down
@@seebarnes6588 There are 2 types of humans
those who have had the seks
&
those that are going to have the seks or never will
What to take from it? Life is life.
What studies often miss are the accidents that didn’t end up in the survey because the person was absolutely fine…because they had armour. That time you slowly dropped and landed elbow down on concrete? Might have been an arm breaker, but you had a pad so you didn’t end up in ER.
Bingo!
Agreed
Yes, can't see why the protector wouldn't be usefull if the primary impact is little above the fracture force level, and taking it back below.
Doesn't take away the fact we could have better protectors.
Yeah it's like with the survivorship bias. Some just might not be reported as no injury occured, no help was needed. Hence no data.
Vital point, thank you. Especially as many of these studies were from US, where medical care is expensive. Many fallen riders just limped home feeling lucky
It is always shocking to me to see how little experience most motorcyclists have with crashing. First thing I did was ride an enduro and crash on dirt. Once I knew how to do that I started crashing on asphalt. Never got any serious injuries BECAUSE I ALWAYS WORE LEATHERS WITH ARMOR. Nowadays I have enough experience to know pretty exactly what would happen if I crash in any given situation. Sure, armor can't prevent me wrapping my spine around a guardrail, but it sure keeps my kneecaps where they belong, and my flesh inside the skin. There's not just abrasion OR fracture. Imagine your kneecap hits a pebble while sliding over the asphalt at 80 km/h. When that happens, armor is the difference between a hurting knee and picking the kneecap out of your sock.
"experience with crashing"? How many bikes and armors did you damage when "learning" this "skill" and what were the costs of repair?
"Life is so beautiful that our first instinct is going to be to protect it. But our imperative, we have to remember, is to appreciate it." Great words. Thanks.
... And then he kills the flower 😂...
"Remember, life is precious. Appreciating it and protecting it cannot happen at the same time. Elbow pads ruin appreciation of life, you know. Forget the potential life-altering skin grafts."
@@kane2369 Well said.
I'm absolutely here for Ryan's airbag activism and continued call-outs of safety standards. Kudos
me too. Most automotive/powersports channels are just simps to whomever pays for a video, and consistently spread misinformation or show examples of things done wrong without explaining that it is unsafe. I can count on ONE HAND the number of car and car performance youtube videos where they have proper 5 or 6 point harnesses that are anchored correctly, with airbags removed. and I've only seen ONE video of a car where they had proper fire suppression. I've watched thousands of car videos over the decades
100% but there has got to be away to make them cheaper and more accessible though. If I took the total cost of my beginner gear, subtracted the cost of a helmet, I still would barely be able to afford an airvest; so unless I want to ride in a helmet and a airbag as my only safety gear...
I think the best budgets ones I have seen are from Hit-Air and they started at 700CAD and I really like the Helite backpack option.
When are they adding airbags to motorcycles 😂
Not sure if it's such a good thing in this case. Maybe they just want to sell more airbags? I'll take laceration and abrasion protection at the cost of almost imperceptible discomfort.
@@patrickday4206Honda goldwing has an airbag.
I never consider those pads as protective against bone fracture. But they are good for abrasion, small hits that can hurt you long time. And also some more serious knee or elbow injuries. But to be honest not for serious accidents. I would never remove them as "any protection is good protection"
I don't have a motorcycle license, just love F9's content, and every time they demonstrated pads "absorbing" impact force they seemed to not do that. The pads don't seem squishy at all, just flexible, but to absorb force you'd need to compress a material (Like the styrofoam in a helmet does) which these pads don't seem to do. They might spread the force over a somewhat larger area but that's it.
@@GameCyborgCh yes that is how you absorb impact. By spreading it over time and area. There is no way to magically disperse of the energy any other way.
the two studies he quoted also have some methodological flaws regarding how they collect their data.
which is due to them getting their data based on reported accidents. aka accidents where the cops showed up and/or the motorcyclist got collected by an ambulance.
Any single vehicle accident where the motoryclist was able to continue riding will not be in the database, on accouint of not requiring police to be called.
And those less severe accidents are the ones where armor actually works.
@@anonym3017 this
@@anonym3017 good point
I tripped and fell in my living room like an idiot, my foot got caught on something and I hit the ground hard enough that it would have almost definitely broken my knee, but I had just gotten home and was wearing my cheap motorcycle pants, and it almost didn’t hurt at all. Just because something isn’t 100% effective doesn’t mean it’s not worth having. If you hit something just hard enough to break a bone and the pad only takes 10% of the impact that’s still enough to save you.
Dangerous Video. Every padding is reducing Impact energy. A broken bone is not just a broken bone, shatterd is more serios than straight broken and this will massiv improve the outcome of the injury.
26 years working as a nurse, emergency room and icu.
FWIW, I was wearing a Vanson jacket with elbow and back armor of their design, a pair of jeans with CE2 hip and knee armor, and a pair of Racer gloves with carbon knuckle armor when a drunk did a last second left in front of me. My knee punched a dent into the side of his truck and my brake lever, which was the first contact with the vehicle, came down hard on the carbon knuckle protectors of my last two fingers. I technically fractured my knee, but it was the kind of fracture where it looks weird on an MRI but none of the parts are displaced to different locations, and I was able to walk away from the wreck. Also, all of my fingers were still on my hand despite the guillotine brake lever. When I came off the bike I landed hard on my back, on my back protector, and while my ribs were badly bruised in the back, none were broken and my spine wasn't bruised. (Quick pitch for the sort of out of fashion Vanson brand: after landing on my back and sliding on the asphalt, the back of my jacket wasn't even scratched. The leather they use wears like iron).
This is anecdote, not data, and I agree with your concerns about regulatory capture and undersized protection. However, I think saying "it's not enough protection so I won't wear it all" is a contrarian but self-defeating choice. It seems like "this isn't enough protection so I'll wear more" would be a more rational response.
Impacts vary, and I'm not sure that "break a femur" is the right threshold to be using as a baseline. There are plenty of impacts, like the one on my right knee, that are below the "break a femur" threshold but may have still broken my knee without the marginal protection that my knee pad offered. Those pads absorbed some of the force before it got to my knee. Given i had a partial but not complete fracture, maybe it was enough. There are also a lot impacts on a motorcycle that will get to "break femur" territory even in the presence of non-existent CE3 or 4. The armor isn't protecting you from that existential 100mph low side into a steel barrier. I'm not sure why this marginal protection isn't showing up in the study you cited, but studies aren't impervious to flaws and are designed to answer yes / no questions, not illuminate nuance as you are well aware.
Btw, my take away from my accident was that I should have been wearing my air bag vest that day. It would have saved me a lot of pain where the gas tank hit my pelvis and would further lessened my rib bruising. But it certainly didn't have me thinking I should ditch the knee, hip, and elbow armor. If anything, it had me thinking about ways to improve the protection at my extremities.
With all of that said, I salute your willingness to call it like you see it despite where your bread is buttered.
Holy ---- the voice of reason , thank you ...
Agreed I took fall on my knee without protection last year at low speed but it been a horrible recovery. I couldn’t walk for a month, and it cracks on every stairs I walk up and down, and I walk with a limp now and I still feel pain, I’m almost 100% sure if I had pad I wouldn’t be in pain, every since that experience I never go riding without pads .. as I learnt it don’t take much impact to give you a f up day
you should learn to speak like a human being. anyway, i think the argument is for better protection standards, not no protection. though he doesn't present any actual evidence for what the standard should be or that a proper standard was pre-empted by the industry.
Damn! Wish I'd said this. It was just what I was thinking but couldn't articulate. Good job.
You have said everything I wanted to say much better than I could have said it. Top answer 👍
It's not often I disagree with Ryan but wearing no pads means you're gonna feel more impact and that just means more pain. It's an absolute no brainer to wear it, drive safe Ryan
For everybody in Germany, you must also remember: If you take it out, your insurance WILL take this as an oportunity to shorten your claim
In Germany you have to tell the insurance company the gear you ride with?
@@Aaron-sj2txGermany has a catch all phrase in the StVO which are the rules for the road for all vehicles. There’s a requirement that you should wear adequate protection at all times and your vehicle be properly maintained for the conditions. That loophole lets insurance decline coverage if you don’t have a seatbelt fastened, bald tires, snow or ice on windows, or on the motorcycle they can get you for improper footwear, lack of gloves, helmet.
For everybody in Germany, there's Stadler motorcycle clothes, and their protectors are much bigger than the rest.
No, they dont. Had an accident last year, no back protection but a broken vertebra and they didnt care at all.
Although they tried to refuse paying for the helmet and other damaged gear.
This is nonsense. Unless the policy states specific clothing to wear.
I was a London despatch rider for nearly 10 years and I can tell ya - if I hadn't have had something between my kneecaps and shoulders other than just a bit of weave on the many (slow speed, which is why I'm still alive) offs I had in that period, I wouldn't be walking. There's no question that the padding provided by the CE stopped my kneecap from being shattered, or fleshy bits from being shredded. I shall add that I frequently didn't wear standard bikers gear because most of it wouldn't last a month of despatch riding, it's a very different experience compared to the average weekend warrior or even hard core commuter, and I wouldn't spend a penny on some of the crap the average biker buys. My stuff was a mix of army surplus, industrial fishing stuff and other things that actually worked. But I always had troos and jackets with CE pockets.
I remember I specific incident when I first started riding where I wish I had been wearing armored pants. I totally botched a turn on a hill from a stop sign. I popped the clutch, which made my newb brain grab the front brake too hard, which made me lose control and get all kinds of wonky.
I ended up in the ditch on the other side of the road, and I had banged my knee against a stone as I went down.
Having that armor would absolutely have saved my knee from the punishment it received that day. I could barely ride home.
Would it have saved me from a break had I gone down a different way? Maybe not. But, I sure wished I had it that day. And now, I wear full gear, with armor, every time I ride.
You do you.
"Life is so beautiful our instinct is going to be to protect it, but our imperative, we have to remember, is to appreciate it". That's a great quote.
In other words FUCK IT WE BALL
did not expect philosophy in my motorcycle gear channel, but I'm here for it
Yeah, but his life affirming wisdom would have a much greater impact if he was not holding a DEAD flower... :-)
Appreciate it, indeed... but I would respectfully amend to "to experience it".
Essentially it's just a fancy way to say "yolo". The quote sounds nice but in the context of the topic is kind of a bad quote.
Alright, you put up a good argument.
**Pulls the rolled up Amazon package bubble wrap out of my jacket pockets**
That would be an insane insulator, you will overheat
bro, thats not a bad idea xD
that's probably better
At least bubble wrap makes a fun sound upon impact
@@thomasborger6548 lols
A highway speed slide with a AAA garment, with the pad removed, will still hurt a lot more than with the pads installed. I'd rather fall from 5ft high with pads than without. That's all they are there for. That last line you threw in there about appreciating life, supports the idea that a marginal safety item, which doesn't have much downside, should be worn.
I hope we don't go down the road of saying controversial stuff for clicks while doing real, tangible harm. Oop, looks like we're there. Remember fellas, it's easier to appreciate life without skin grafts involved, and improperly quoting studies doesn't a scientist make.
Respectfully I'm going to keep mine in. There are accidents where pads won't matter (either the impact was so soft that nothing would have broken, or the impact was so hard that no matter what you're wearing you'll break), but for that slight chance of an accident that the armor results in a bone bruise instead of a bone break I'll take that extra little bit of protection.
I think the general gist of the video was a call for better armor
My only whoopsie so far was a lowside (raining, sand, cornering), and my right side came down pretty hard. I bruised my elbow, and that was WITH the elbow pad in my jacket. I think I may have broken my elbow-or at least got a bone bruise-if I hadn't had my elbow pad in place.
I think Ryan's highlighting the fact that current armor pads need drastic improvement to help prevent the worst outcomes.
There is no, reasonable armor that can be 100% effective to prevent all injury. I've fallen a ridiculous amount of times, on street and offroad. After committing to buying motorcycle gear with armor, my injuries have significantly reduced. Similar falls that took me out of my work and hobbies for long periods now don't even register because no matter what armor I have, it's way way better than not having any armor at all.
Like, Ryan is really suggesting we'd be just as protected I'm Levi's for crying out loud!
@@stephensumpter5311 Yeah, the CURRENT armor are useless for fractures. But just happen to be good enough for abrasions and bruise protection. We need stronger armor.
@@werepat I don't think he's suggesting that at all. The conclusion I got from his video is that safety standards are inadequate and armor should be better, but isn't. He literally says at the end that it is is more protective than no armor.
Crash test dummy here.. flung myself off into the woods up in the Catskills after hitting a blind corner covered in sand from the prior winter. 7 broken ribs and a collapsed lung. Helicopter ride as well to a trauma center. Thankfully had a forcefield sub 4 back protector and level 2 everywhere else. Astar super tech boots saved my ankles, the bike landed on them and pinned me under the bmw. Knox handroid gloves..the ones with the exoskeleton saved my hand which was buried in a pile of river rock. Had yellow bruising around all the body armor but all good. I landed with my arm up on a pile or river rock which did the damage to my ribs. Full airbag vest could have helped, i suspect. The hospital bill was over $100,000! Do your self a favor and add as much armor as you can afford. Riding 15 years till that event. It will happen, and there is no need to end up in a wheelchair!
100k?! How much of that was paid by insurance???
Do you still ride?
Thanks
Murica! Would have been €600 own risk over here in NL. But crazy story ma dude. Hope you recovered well. I only ride with full gear. I like my body and skin.
It will happen? I'd say the majority of riders will get through a 50-year riding 'career' without a significant crash and/or injury. It's not a statistical certainty. Your story highlights the usefulness of gear, but you know what's even more useful? Safety and sport riding courses every single spring to refresh your skills and safely test your limits.
Any material between you and the road is welcomed. Jeans over wearing shorts when riding is worth the difference. I understand you are talking collision where protection is a broad topic. But if Im going to crash, I would take my chances with my moto jacket and gloves every time even to just minimize road burn when sliding You cant always pick the type of mishap that may occur but a few points of protection is good in my book. Even boots are better than wearing tennis shoes.
Back to your point, a jacket wont help you in a head on collision with a car so why wear any protection at all is a silly thought.
I had a lowside wearing an armoured two piece and was spared cuts, roadrash and significant damage to my left forearm that took all the sliding/impact with the bike post crash. The biggest consequence to me was having my elbow jammed into my ribcage - that smarted for a few days. I was grateful to be all ATGATTed at the time. I won't be removing my armour from my kit, but Ryan's got a point that the armour is presently market-neered downwards in spec and could be better. As consumers, we make clear market demand signals by what we buy. if "we" keep buying and demanding armoured gear, it will only get better. Its basic consumerist feature drive to manufacturers. Thanks for the presentation and the thinking its generated.
I don't believe anything I see on the Internet today, but I am a believer that knee pads should extend farther around the side rather than simply covering the knee cap. The response to finding that existing armor is less effective than one would hope should not be to abandon all armor. It should be to demand innovation from makers to offer more effective armor. Nothing stops them from exceeding the regulatory standard but consumer expectations.
Edit: Then again, I may be missing the more nuanced conclusion that broken bones are inevitable right now and the thing to invest in after adequate abrasion resistance isn't padding but wearable airbags to prevent more serious neck injuries. RF9 did include the Helite on his recent list of starter gear for 2024, after all.
Agreed. These tiny CE pads are kind of a joke, but if we had better armor on top of it to spread the impact it would matter. Of course, adventure and moto x riders do exactly that, but we aren't really willing to do that for routine on-road riding. All the current styles are "riding jeans" and "riding boots" that are actually hi-top tennis shoes. I choose to wear riding pants OVER my jeans and take them off at dest but most people won't - they want convenience so they get jeans with these little tiny pads that wouldn't protect you if you just fell over a stop sign....
I made a bicylcle crash at 50kmh thats like 30mph.
My knee got damaged at the side not at the front what everybody always wants to protect...
Really painfull.
I wont imaging what would happened at 60mph because the force is 4x times higher :/
Agree. I have a pair of Klim jeans that have very little armor, just like F9 is showing in this video. I have a pair of Dianese leather pants that have amazing knee and shin protection. The two are miles apart in terms of armor and protection.
You can get not only wearable airbag jackets but airbag pants now as well. Only one brand of airbag pants right now but that should expand (heh) quickly.
DEPEENDS ON WHAT YOU GET... FOR EXAMPLE TOP PRICE DAINESE STUFF EXTENDS THE WHOLE SHIN
Dude did a 6-minute video, 1 shot, no cuts yet still informative, engaging, and thought-provoking. Mind blown 🤯
A 6 min straight with no cuts !! love it! massive kudos to the camera dude who never tripped walking backwards. Bet your arms were killing ya!
I high sided on the expressway last May doing approximately 130kph after hitting a metal patch on the road. I was airborn for what seemed like an eternity and knew it was going to hurt when I finally made contact with mother earth. When I landed I broke my collarbone and damaged my shoulder ((now titanium man ) however I also slid a long way alongside my bike. The motorcycle jeans I was wearing were damaged but the road never made contact with my skin due to the fabric and armour. My Jacket was like wise badly damaged but the material and armour protected my skin. My gloves had sliders on the heel of the palm and were both badly worn (trying to slow myself down ) but my hands were fine apart from a small cut on one finger. I never believed that so called armour would protect my bones and it did not, but there is no doubt what so ever, that if I had not been wearing it I would have suffered serious skin and tissue damage. I understand the points Ryan is making but his almost dismissive " It may save you a bruise" is, in my mind, a little dismissive of the very real possibility of serious slide injuries. His airbag may protect his bones in a crash but it will not stop him wearing away his elbow. Armour is there to help save the rider from unintentional weight loss due to skating on your ass down a strip of tarmac.
That's true, but is there really much of a point if you're riding around town and not going those speeds? Not arguing, it's just an interesting debate. 130km/h is higher than the speed limits for 99% of roads here in Aus
Yeah because bikers never go over the speed limit
High sided on the expressway??????? Lol
I think you're mixing up armor and slide protection. He's not advocating for not wearing abrasion resistant gear, just for taking the pads out of them to make them more wearable
@@willie123567yeah but those pads add significantly to the amount of material that is between u and the road u slide over.
I'd concur, if I hadn't been dragged 50 yards under my Blackbird fifteen years ago, and *almost* worn through the shoulder pad in my jacket. No pad, no shoulder. A single data point, maybe, but it's *my* single data point. Two years later my femur was smashed by my handle bar, but that was where there were no pads.
But if you listened to what he said.. he openly said they can help for abrasions and that maybe enough for people to keep using them.
Wow sounds like you've just discovered anecdotal evidence. Congratulations
That’s exactly the point he made in the video. Good for abrasions, not so much for fractures.
exp bias
@@nigelcook730 same for the rest of the moto gear. Should we ride without jackets and pants?
FortNine clearly hasn't looked into this topic properly either. Please don't pay too much attention to him (that could be dangerous). It's very simple:
Class C, CC & CCC is impact protection.
Class B, BB & BBB is abrasive protection.
Class A, AA & AAA is both abrasive and impact protection.
Impact protection is classified as level 1 or 2 protection - not A & B. That's how you specify your clothes e.g. C1 or AA2.
If you remove the impact protection from AAA motorcycle clothing, you will still have the BBB abrasive protection, which is way higher than ordinary jeans. Don't forget that knee protectors will keep your knees warm.
I'm not sure if you ever had an accident. But I had where I rolled across the street like a ball for about 60 meters .
And believe me, I was happy to wear clothing with good protectors.
Because I was rolling like a ball, most impact was on my knees, elbows and shoulders ... exactly where the protectors are.
And looking at the wearness at these points, I'm glad, that the impact was not directly on my knees, elbows or shoulders.
Maybe worth mentioning: I only wear good protectors made of rubber, not thees cheap foam ones you have shown in the video.
The 2 biggest flaws of this this video are:
1: The video is assuming because the armor doesn't meet 4kN in distribution, the armor's effect is near negligent. This is inaccurate.
2: The study said results are inconclusive. Yet the video pedals it as though there is no relation between armor and less injury/fracture. As a researcher myself I get frustrated when this happens. My first thought when I saw the data put on screen was this: "How do we know that the people wearing gear weren't going faster and getting in worse accidents?"
The plain physics of dispersed energy and energy spread over time has been proven so damn many times.
@@logangodofcandy what does this mean for our current discussion?
Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Tumbling off your bike at low speed and landing on your elbow. I know the armour will have me just picking up the bike, not going to hospital.
As a writer myself, _Negligible Peddle_ could be a great researcher punk band.
1) no... when is that assumed? The video states that the standard is not good enough because it's limited.
2) well, that's an assumption on your part, with no reason to suggest it. Other than statistically improbable.
If you are a researcher you should understand the concept of the null hypothesis.
This is anecdotal: I have had one fall / laydown of my bike on gravel in a corner. My elbow hit the ground and I was very happy to have this type of soft impact protection. No injury. I wore a knox mesh jacket.
I have nerve damage from a low speed fall. Why? No elbow protection.
Weird how that works.
Yes, I have had low speed offs where the padding worked great. Not taking mine out.
but but bones
@@rosskstar BONELESS!
One instance I had was I was going on a little winding road along a river through the mountains. I was coming up on a corner, and I kid you not, a bumblebee flew inside my helmet and landed right on my glasses. It distracted me enough that I forgot about the corner, and I was going to hit the guardrail head on. I didn’t have time to stop or complete the corner, and I dropped the bike down on its side so the wheels would hit the guardrail first.
I landed on my side and slid with the bike until it stopped.
I didn’t get a bruise, my only injury was my jacket rubbing my skin.
I guarantee that if I didn’t have my armor on, my hip and elbow would have gotten a major bruise.
They may not protect against really high crashes, but a crash like mine worked great. I picked my bike up and kept riding through the day, with only a few scratches from my jacket where the armor wasn’t on my arm.
I think it’s silly to remove the armor, especially if it’s good flexible armor, and I won’t because of my one and only crash on pavement.
and the bee???
@@pamvarnsverry2444 good question, I have no idea what happened to it. I didn’t even think about it until you said something. My guess it got knocked out of my helmet. I really don’t know.
Last year I started to practice moto gymkhana. Of the dozen time I have fallen on the ground I landed mostly on my side so: hip and elbow. Couple of times the bike landed on my feet and pinned me on the ground. I’m very grateful that I had full external armor and extra knee protection and a proper pair of hard boots.
As a guy who's had 3 unfortunate 'offs' (in 60+ years of riding - none of which were avoidable - and 2 of which resulted in helo rides), I gotta believe that the gear I had on saved my bacon, at least to a degree. In my latest 'event' I hit sand on a shaded road in the mountains of SW VA early in the morning while negotiating a corner at 50 (+/-) mph and the bike simply slammed me to the asphalt. I have no memory of the accident, but I have to believe the KLIM gear I had on significantly reduced my injuries (as did my helmet). The ER doc at the hospital in Johnson City, TN where I was life-flighted commented that he sees a lot of m/c related incidents resulting in permanent and sometimes fatal injuries, many from incidents where no 'gear' was worn and he attributed the lack of major injuries to me to my gear. I consider myself to be an experienced rider who doesn't ride above my skill levels, but I do ride a lot, and the more we ride the more the odds are against us. I'm merely trying to mitigate the chances of an off resulting in permanent or fatal results. I'll continue to use my pads.
As an ER doc in Johnson City, I just say that to everyone. Imagine if I started telling people their gear probably doesn't do anything, they'd want another doctor! Particularly since it's not like I saw the crash, or was even at the scene. But people think I can read trauma like their insides aren't organized yogurt. The mush whisperer.
Saying none were avoidable just goes to show how you think about this stuff.
Oh they were avoidable. All crashes are avoidable. The fact you haven't learnt they're avoidable means you've taken nothing away from both incidents.
@@NaeMuckle A car crossed the road 10 Meters in front of me. I rammed into the side of the car. 10 month later I was able to leave the hospital for the first time. Second crash so far in 40 years of riding motorbikes was a crash caused by a sort of Antilope which came out of the forest and jumped into my bike directly from the side. Now you tell us accidents like these are avoidable? It is totally disrespectful to tell the victims of an accident that they are to blame for their accident, because it could have been avoided in any case.
Not every accident is a simple lowside from riding too hard for the skill, tires, or road conditions. Sometimes life just has other plans my man.
I just recently had an avoidable accident, but alas I put off upgrading the rubbers and it caught up to me @NaeMuckle
I am a history teacher and I am using the final statement of this video in my lectures on war (with careful citations of course) . "Life is so beautiful, our instinct is gonna be to protect it. But our imperative, we have to remember, is to appreciate it". That's beyond profound!
With regard to this video, that sentiment is irrelevant. Wearing a padded jacket does nothing to decrease my appreciation or enjoyment of motorcycle riding!
I get that ridingvwithout a helmet and gear really is a freeing sensation, and probably should be experienced by everyone, but saying wearing padded gear reduces the beauty of the world is, frankly, silly.
@@werepat That is NOT what he said nor implied with that quote. Wowza, you that butt hurt about his point?
@werepat what the fuck are you smoking?
@@werepat Your comment is also irrelevant. What if wearing armor does impede someone's enjoyment of riding? Maybe I think we should limit all motorcycles to 60mph because I get the same enjoyment at 30mph as I do at 130mph. Surely that wouldnt impede on your fun right? And its safer right?!
EI: Where's the line dude?
The personalities who find it suitable to judge what is and what isnt "enjoyable", are often the same types who end up legislating limitations...
I agree with you to an extent. I wear armor. But if someone says wearing armor reduces their enjoyment, thats their choice to make. Thats yhe freedom they can enjoy. Im happy they get to choose, and I expect them to be responsible for any consequences.
@@SuperSneakySniper my problem is not with unsafe practices. My problem comes from the tacit approval and implied encouragement from a notable personality that he thinks wearing armored gear is pointless. It's just wrong. Do whatever you want, but that includes doing your best to not be wrong.
Having had 2 relatively low speed low side crashes, i am thankful my jacket and pands were padded. The only damage i had was on the second wipeout the bottom of my palm where it meets the wrist hit the pavement hard. Those were crappy gloves. Lesson learned. My jacket popped a stitch where i had repaired it previously and my pants were just scuffed (luckily the road had dirt and gravel so i slid on a thin layer of crap and not so much the pavement, although i would not have lost traction if the road was clean!) Anywho, like I said, no damage to me besides my hand thanks to the pads in my gear. I will definitely continue buying armoured clothing. 👍
This guy as serious talent for explaning and narrating!❤ good job my friend!
That's why the motto is: "dress for the slide, not the ride". Pads don't protect that much against the impact itself (minus the helmet), but is all about making the slide comfortable.
Slide also rhymes with ride...
Just to add, I have never expected pads to prevent fractures, they just would have cover the entire limb to be able to do that like a suit of armor or a MOTOGP suit. Its always been about the slide for me.
This is a good one; I'll have to remember this. Another one I have heard for helmets is "skid lid."
@@spartanx169x I think that's just the common sentiment, as it is very obvious, but if the companies did hold up their end on protective gear then we might not need to dress for the slide, but the fractures and the impact.
Seems like some protection is better than none. It might not save a bone when the force is very large, but if it was just enough to break a bone, is the pad not going to absorb some of that and save you from a fracture?
Maybe an April Fool’s joke, but I would never take out my armor based on anyone’s video. I have been smacked in the chin’s with road debris and knew what if I didn’t have armor on I would have been recovering instead of riding.
Yea, same I fell right on my elbow and got a nasty bruise. I'm pretty sure I would have broken my arm if it wasn't for the Armor.
Yeah actually the road debris is a solid reason to always keep your pads inside. It's a common case to have a stone fly into your windshield when you drive a car, what can we say about going on the road without a windshield?
Great take on an industy standard which has become overlooked and substandard. Superb delivery!
At 62 years old I got knocked off my Honda goldwing driving through California coast fog and smoke I was trying to be careful going 25 mph as it was getting dark Hit a construction patch and it threw me off the bike there is no way you can tell me that my gear didn't save me from having broken bones it was worth every penny my full year including gloves I hit the pavement I spun I don't know how many times The only thing that happened to me and it didn't show up on x-rays was probably a fracture a hairline one in my foot that took a long time to heal Yes I had a bruised kidney but I was able to get a new face shield on get my bike out of the ditch which hardly had a scratch and proceed another 250 mi to my destination anyone who doesn't ride with armor protection is just a fool we see them in the street riding with flip-flops shorts personally I won't go to pick up groceries without my gear Yes my next thing is to get one of those inflatable vests it's been on my wish list hopefully this year
For someone who rides dual sports and has a lot of low speed falls the armour really does help. Probably doesn’t make much of a difference if you hit a wall at 90.
exactly mate, clonk a body part on a tree at 30 KMs am hour and the pads work 🤘🇦🇺
Fell over once doing some slow speed work in a parking lot. Landed hip first on the ground. Had hip armour in my pants, so I didn't feel a thing, but l imagine that would not have been the case without it. At the very least wouldn't been some bruising.
And if you fall on it again? Yeah, right. "Pads are worthless."
You know what is actually worthless? This video!
And to think so many people will simp over Ryan and his ability to read a script for 7 minutes that they'll just take his word and suggestions to heart and remove the pass from their gear anyway.
@@werepat ...if you actually read the comments you'd notice people either contesting him or reinterpretating his words correctly (current armor bad, we want better armor) but no, keep whining
I really only wear the armor as another layer of abrasion resistance for the slide and not the impact.
This channel is an absolute blessing to the motorcycling community.
It really is!
Real
This time i dont think so.
@@jrodriguesraposo Why's that?
actually it isn't, starting to promote silly ideas...
To everyone saying their armour saved them from worse injuries etc - you're missing FortNine's point! It should have saved you MORE if the standards were better - but they're not because the industry wants to profit MORE rather than actually protect you. Companies are there to profit, regulations are there to protect you despite whatever marketing bs companies would have you believe to buy their stuff. Motorcycling accidents costs us our lives, and we should be fuming at the industry and regulations for failing to do their jobs properly while at the same time making us believe they are - the best scams are the ones you don't know are scams. Thank you F9 for being for the rider not the industry.
To an extent this is true but it is missing a lot of real life use cases where protection does in fact make a huge difference. The major point being the abrasion/laceration protection. The focus in this video on broken bones, which are not a big deal in most cases. Scraping off part off your elbow or hip bone is a different matter, just like skin grafts or deep laceration that hit a major artery.
Having had a whole bunch of accidents, on and off the bike, with and without protection, I can unequivocally say it does make a huge difference. The people that the research didn't approach were the more minor crashes, where people slide out or something to that extent and those crashes are much more common. In those cases, the protection absolutely does its job really well.
There is also more than snapping a bone in half. You can chip or crack your elbows, shoulder or hips, which can create much bigger issues than a single, clean break. Bones also bruise, which takes months and months to heal, if it ever does.
In my opinion this video is too narrow-minded, focussing too much a broken bones as being the worst injury you can have (which it isn't in most cases) and the fact the major brands have had a hand in setting that a standard that could be better.
Instead of shooting down the concept of pads based on these two aspects of protective gear, you could argue for a better standard like the horse-girls get and include the situations where protection absolutely serves its purpose. Realise how many people take your opinion as gospel, even if you formulate in such a way you are not liable for people taking your advice to heart.
Yeah even though the message is technically there, way too many people are going to read the title and watch the first half and think they don't need armor anymore.
I can agree with F9 that standards should be challenged if there’s opportunity for improvement for the end-user, and any shortcomings they have should be known - but just writing off these inserts because bone strength < insert energy mitigation in a one dimensional controlled test irks me.
@@uncleren Exactly. Especially with the focus on broken bones, which are not the most common injury in crashes. Bruises, abrasions and lacerations are way more common. Having experienced injuries like that, I always use body armour. Every little bit helps.
Yeah the rant comes down to 'if something isn't 100% perfect then it's completely useless' which is silly. Didn't cite anything that says it increases injuries, I don't really understand the angle he took here unless it's just to get people to engage in the comments which clearly worked lol
Very well said.
“Life is so beautiful our instinct is to protect it… but our imperative is to appreciate it.”
Good lord, what a line.
One should be alive and in good shape to appreciate life
@@user-Podcast-Canadathat's not necessarily true-no one appreciates the idea of being in good shape like the person who no longer is! The point remains the same
Wink wink vaccines, WHO, WEF...
Makes sense to me
@@user-Podcast-Canadayou don't have to be in good shape to appreciate life lol 🤦
As everyone is hitting on due to FortNine’s personal view on this is how companies have advertised the flexible “impact” pads in motorcycle gear and how we have been overall mislead. No one is disputing that good motorcycle gear is made of layers that help prevent many abrasion injuries. The flexible or non-flexible pads are nothing more than a layer of that system. Calling these pads “impact” protection/armor is the part that is misleading. The designs in motogp gear vs urban gear are significantly different in thickness and material. Yet both professional and leisurely gear have similar EN1621 level rated insert pads which is missing leading to the level of actual protection you are receiving though the overall system as a whole. To truly inform consumers motorcycle gear companies need to be honest on what consumers are purchasing in levels of protection. We as consumers also need to take the responsibility to educate ourselves what we are actually purchasing. Thanks FortNine for making this a conversation.
Appreciate the input, but I wear full gear even in sweltering August.
Just had an acident and I walked out of it with only some serious bruises.
Ah, but what I DID DO a long time ago, I removed elbow and knee inserts from the jacket and pants respectively, and I replaced them with protectors tied directly to my body, under the jacket and over the pants.
My latest accident confirmed and reinforced my initial guess, that they will stay put in case of a slide, and very literally saved my elbow from shattering into a million pieces.
Of course, protection works at low/average speed, and it works quite well.
At high speeds, it only allows your mom to properly identify the body.
Either way, my armor is here to stay.
Now, if only I could find something like a kidney belt that comes with a hip protector, because the hip inserts in my pants did well, but could have done so much better.
I'm glad I wore them a few days ago, the bruises in those slightly better protected areas are on a lighter yellow than the almost blue ones on my arm, my forearm, my leg or my foot. More important, a rider should never forget that wearing a certain level of protection doesn't mean being safe.
I hope you recover quickly!
Do you think it could have more to do with having a better abrasion resistant material on the impact zones than the pads themselves?
@@palashbhaumik4050 having pads in turn, does increase abrasion resistance
@@Derkenblosh2 yes I know that...but I was just thinking about which would be a better alternative for abrasion resistance
Is a class A rated jacket with level 2 protectors better/worse than AA rated jacket without any armouring... which would be a better/cheaper way to increase abrasion resistance...and so on...lots of such questions not covered in this video
@@palashbhaumik4050 The A class is worse then the AA since it's not the pads but the surface material tested for abrasion, he covered that in a previous video something about textile versus leather.
Almost. If a fracture occurs at 4kN and our substandard (I agree) padding reduces the force of the impact (i.e. 6kN) as well as the disruption of the impact to below 4kN, the fracture will likely not occur. This will be a moot point for anyone riding a street bike into a concrete barrier at highway speed. But as some who have taken hard falls on elbows, hips and knees off-road, fall on my CE2 pads and Leatt knee and shin pads have saved my day more than once. Most of us have tried it both ways and regretted the days we left the padding at home. It is also important to remember the stats are only collected when someone presents at the hospital. This data is completely void of all the impacts that occurred, with padding, and no serious injury occurred.
"Life is so beautiful that our instinct is going to be to protect it, but our imperative, remember, is to appreciate it." Loved the ending ❤. Love from India
Appreciating life and protecting it are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps protecting life in order to appreciate it is important, actually.
Eh this is kinda like not using a lock at all because all locks can be cut with a grinder.
Having crashed with and without armour I know first hand how much less it hurts when you have armour. You know why that difference isn’t in the numbers? None of those impacts with the armour did I report.
Basically will pads stop you braking bones in a bad crash? Nope. Will they make a smaller crash less painful and maybe protect from a small fracture? Yep
yeah but that doesnt make for a good click baity title.
I was expecting an April fools video, but now I don't know what to think.... hmmm
Ditto 😂
he got you!
(by making you think it was an April Fool's, and it wasn't)
Think about it... what he says makes total sense. If you are going 110mph and get launched from your bike are those little armor pads are really going to do jack all for your fall... a fall at that speed is going to massively hurt and the last thing in your mind will be "Well I hope that pad helps my fall". Its going to be "OHH SHIT this is going to hurt". He is right when he says they will help for abrasions but at the end of the day if you break a bone that is under those pads... what use was the pad?
I wasn't sure either but it's too serious a topic. Imagine if someone took out their armour and had a bad accident.........
you have always had a unique approach to content, And I have always enjoyed it!
That is 1 of the best 1 take piece to cameras I’ve seen and I’ve worked in TV for 30 years. Nice one. Oh and cheers for the useful info.
This 6 minute one-take is the best example of how good video planning can save you hours in editing😮
If we assume this was the first take.
IF - It helps anyone save edit time - When I use the record pause button - I also pause my jaw. It's simple - and effective. You just need to remember what you were saying in the previous shot. If you're moto blogging and you just ridden past something you want to find later - put your glove over the lens, then later just search for the black parts and Hey Presto...
....David Wood does a very impressive one take including a trip down a subway, if I remember he may even got on the train and popped up at tge exit subway, walked to a park bench and sat down. All in one take. I like it as it seems natural- if one is not too easily distracted
Worth watching the Johnny Walker advertisement The Man Who Walked Around the World that inspired this -- incredible performance and camera work
He’s using a brand he invested in heavily to pull this off. If you imagine your other moto vloggers doing this bit, 😅 their poor comment section.
His brand enables this one shot, topic, and opinion to be. 🎉
New rider here buying my first bike soon. I appreciate Ryan never taking safety gear promises at face value, especially regarding helmets. But I'll join most others here saying: I'll definitely be wearing pads. I expect I could take a spill or two and the less damage I take the more quickly I'll get back on that horse.
I like my skin where it is.
Well your conclusion got it right - protect your skins, not your bones since the CE won't absorb enough to protect from break. I'd say $ better spent on quality abrasion protection in that case, i.e. I'll take kevlar over foam.
he doesn't even consider low speed crashes and simple falls. like say you're simply going too fast for a turn at an intersection and fall going twenty miles an hour. low chance of bone breakage or road rash, but would you rather land on your elbow without a pad, or with a pad? i'm definitely not going to stop wearing pads.
@@thinkdunson I think the studies he read from did take into consideration all crashes, including low speed ones. You will fracture your elbow even in a low speed crash (30mph), with or without pad.
I suspect your speed going forwards is irrelevant to the downwards force on to your elbow in a simple ‘falling over’ crash, sure it will add major abrasion damage as the bike speed is a horizontal force, but your speed at falling downwards will remain the same, as it's just acceleration of gravity. Unless you get launched up into the air of course.
But yeah, if you get launched horizontally into something, no pad will save you
I mean I'm still gonna wear pads haha, but they will not save you from any impact force
It definitely adds a level of confidence at the beginning. Also scabs the size of a large pizza really suck....
body armor has nothing to do with the skin
Don’t forget that the pads also insulate you like a beer coozy when you are laying spread eagle post-crash on the 180*F asphalt in Arizona.
I have landed on my CE1 knee pads in a parking lot, and I have no doubt they prevented a fracture or a worse injury.
Barely. I felt the pad stiffen, I felt my knee hit, I swear I practically felt the texture of the pavement, and it hurt for a few hours after. I've wondered ever since why they did such a barely okay job at under 10 miles per hour. I noticed the same with my CE2 gear; hit something at road speeds and any of my gear feels barely adequate on the impact front. Thank you for explaining this, and for starting this conversation
I generally like your content...and understand the argument, but having had a good few crashes over 40 years of riding, I have experienced crashes both with and without CE armour. I currently wear Forcefield armour and it has, without a doubt, been highly effective at reducing injuries. As has the sorbothane armour in my old BKS leathers. Major impacts will break bones, but the trauma and damage will be reduced or eliminated for lower impacts. I continue to wear CE armour.
You might think it's protectionism... but I think you missed the point. I put on a one piece leather suit that legitimately weights 20+ pounds with all the armor in it and go ride the racetrack FULLY aware that all its going to do is protect my skin. In fact I have this knowledge first hand. I crashed at Road Atlanta, and I had no abrasions or bruises, but I did break my hip in 4 places and my collar bone. I bought an air vest after that, which might have protected my hips, but not my collar bone.
Your skin and other soft tissues represent the LARGEST organs your body has. Protecting those can and will make a significant clinical difference when it comes to skin grafts, both in terms of needing one, and the quality of available tissue if you do. But it also will reduce the likelihood of sepsis. You're at less risk of rabdo, kidney and liver failure because your body has a lot less to deal with than if you didnt have the pads on. You'll heal faster because your body isn't dealing with as many injuries. And then there's just the plain and simple fact that getting bruises and road rash just sucks. Not being miserable every waking (and sleeping) second for months following a crash is worth wearing a bulky jacket.
Yeah, I have been bruised after a small crash, and it was worse than my collarbone fracture during the first week. Getting all clean (from road debris) was one of the most painful things ever. The nurse rubbed it like if she was cleaning rusty bridge with a steel wool, but it was actually my bloody arm, hand, fingers... After some weeks all was good, but 2 years later I still have some light scars/colour difference in my skin. If I were wearing my usual riding jacket, it would have been way better surely. I still believe that a shoulder protector would have saved my collarbone. It was a really low speed impact.
you missed that he didn't say he stopped wearing abrasive resistant motorcycle gear. he said that he stopped wearing armour. you can wear a jacket with full kevlar abrasion resistance, but drop the armour pads.
He didn’t missed the point like he said in the very beginning there’s pads used in horse riding that are way more effective in preventing fractures but the moto companies still uses extremely subpar standards. The pads are designed for IMPACT. They can protect against abrasions but they’re not designed for that and suck at their job. While the skin is the biggest organ we have a fracture can have much worse repercussions than abrasions. These pads are the equivalent of laying the seatbelt over you body while driving so you don’t get a ticket.
@@natalyakeane The pads add more abrasion protection. Also, the pads protect from the smaller hits: if you smash your knee because you fell from a standstill you try doing that with and without pads and come with a straight face telling me pads don't work.
Hitting your knee on the ground from a standstill can be a completely debilitating injury, even if you don't break your joint, you may injure yourself to the point that you can't walk.
With a pad it's just a nuisance. THIS ENTIRE VIDEO IS BUILT ON THE FORCED IDEA THAT PADS ARE ONLY FOR YOUR BONES. Your body is FULL of soft tissue and a leather riding garment has nearly 0 shock absorption, so all the energy goes into your body. Good luck with that.
this guy doctors
Really interesting and informative video! That's why I have started wearing airbags for the last two years now...for track I have a tech air 10 and for street riding a motoairbag v3. Investing in your safety is so important. Enjoy and ride safe!
Padded motorcycle gear is phenomenal for snowboarding. Didn’t feel a thing when eating crap learning how to hit the rails. Haven’t bought another bike since my throttle got stuck open in 2nd gear after a blip downshift right before a 90 degree turn (wish I didn’t do that, but could’ve been way worse, padded gear really helped at that speed), so now I use the gear for snowboard season. 3 years bike sober so far and dying to go back when it’s fiscally feasible. I bloody babied that 750 too…
Head engineer of Suzuki finally got back to me right after I sold the bike for parts lol, so there was nothing they could do about the situation. Probably for the best I suppose.
Always loved your content btw!
Hmm, strange approach here. I had a bad motorbike crash 10 months ago. My knee was injured with a fracture. I was full gear equiped BUT, without my knee armor, my knee would be destroyed, not just fractured, and today, repaired. I think the armor goal, was not to prevent fracture, but to absord energy to reduce the damage. Sorry for my english, i'm a french rider who wear full gear... still ^^ Have a nice day, and I hope for you that you will never had a bad crash, without your armor gears. Ride safe people, life is too short ;). Best regards.
Good input on this discussion. Your reply makes sense to me!
Your armor mainly spread the blunt impact across the entire protected area. Without armor a portion of your knee would have taken all the impact, likely having a more severe outcome. Kudos for using it.
Good point!
that's exactly what he said...the rating is a joke, it doesn't prevent damage just soften the blow and removes the road rash and other inconveniences. BUT the point is still there - why the bar/standard is set so low? Because manufacturers had it set this way with the help regulatory companies. And the latter did mention that is the minimum and manufacturers can go higher but the former don't, due to cost and uneducated consumers. Would you even look at the 2.5k jacket when there is a $500 one right next to it on the rack? If you did you would see the "low" cost one has the minimum standard for safety (15N) while the higher priced one guarantees
Your English makes way more sense than Ryan’s it won’t stop fractures like horse rider kit (which also wouldn’t at the speeds and G loadings of motorcycle CE standards by the way) so throw it away!
Reducing the seriousness of fractures and eliminating them on more minor impacts is entirely the point!
My impact pads are staying in!
I know a guy who was on the way to a viking re enactments show who fell off going into the Dartford tunnel under the Thames. The shower of sparks his mail shirt gave was most spectacular and absolutely freeked the people in the cars following him .the best bit was when he got up checked himself and with a few bruises carried on to the show .....he got a few more bruises from the Saxon hord he fought 👍
@cedhome7945 I used to do that back in late 90s (Regia Anglorum, Yorvingerhead, York) Wore chain mail vest... it weighed 7 stone!!! wish I still had it lol. Ta for memory unlock 👍🖖
I was with regia =.Wessex during the 90s
I'm a little suspect of the methodology here, since it only concerns people who are alive to report their results. Because we only hear back from the people who weren't in fatal crashes, this seems like a form of selection bias. Why don't we try asking all the people who've died whether their armor or lack thereof helped? Information about what the dead motorcyclists wore seems important to have if we care about whether the armor has any effect.
If I had to guess, I would imagine the armored people had a much higher chance of survival than the ones with less effective armor, but the study doesn't seem to address that. It's suggesting that IF you survive the crash, then the armor doesn't do much good. Which is fine and dandy, but doesn't seem to be what these studies or the video implies. Many less-armored people were involved in fatal crashes and thus weren't here to report how much the impact protection totally would've helped. There are tons of data points here that are missing from the full picture; it's hard to conclude that armor doesn't do much when we have no information about the most severe crashes one can get into, which seems like it'd be the entire point of a study like this.
This would be like interviewing crash survivors and saying "80% of people who wear a helmet in crashes still get serious concussions. But hey, not a single person who didn't wear a helmet and got in a crash had a concussion! In fact, 80% of the people who didn't wear a helmet were totally unscathed, and 20% only had minor inconveniences afterwards. So I guess there's no reason to wear a helmet, since it actually does more damage!" This is clearly because the only people surviving a crash without a helmet are gonna be extremely low-speed cases, or, obviously, nonfatal ones. Every other case higher than a certain mph would result in almost certain death, as the studies have actually shown. The ones helmets protect you from are the more severe ones, so of course more injury occurs.
I've been going through the rest of the sources at the end of the video relatively thoroughly to verify whether I'm wrong (maybe I missed something and they do check the armor of the wheeled-in corpses), but so far nothing has come up. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken, because this is definitely important information to make sure we get right. By all means correct me or find a study to show the opposite if one exists. If one doesn't exist then it needs to be done, and for this video to hold merit, we're looking for something that suggests that, even including fatal crashes, there is little correlation with armor and survival rate.
I guess the point Ryan makes is that standard armour isn’t that useful. It will help in low speed shunts but won’t do much good in high speed severe situations. That’s no doubt true but it makes sense to use any protection available to avoid injury where possible.
Don’t maybe isn’t as good as we think it is but it’s still protection.
Everybody who did off-road riding knows why you need at least knee and elbow pads.
Sk8rs too
@@diyfreediverits not cool to wear protection then you ride a skate, yo, just bump your against a pavement, yo
For sure. They really do work. Off-road riding has resulted in many many spills. My armor did its job.
@@chocolatewafles Yeah, but I’m 58 now, so I wear the minimum to keep from breaking any more bones
@@diyfreediver my bad, i was miss spell, i mean bump your head against the pavement, and obviously it was sarcasm! Its very cool that you still skating at this age, im never you to it, and im only 29, but use skatepark with my bicycle and teaching youner generation to use protection:) good luck!
Doesn't factor in little accidents where you are fine and the bike is fine and you just get up and carry on riding.
Low level injury prevention is still a thing.
Yeah but unless you want to wear full motocross gear every time you go out, then you will make some trade-off between protection and comfort. Videos like this help riders make better informed decisions about which pieces (like pads or a thick plastic chestplate) may not be necessary for them.
Fell off doing about 25kph due to some gravel last summer, hit my knee and hip and it didn’t hurt much due to armour. Fell off my bicycle doing about 5 kph this winter (ice), hurt like hell for a week, no armour.
Much like his strange 285 degree crank video or 180 about the value of GoreTex I wonder how Ryan is doing.
@@903lew I fell off my e bike last winter accelerating out of T junction. Low sided, was maybe doing 15 mph landed on my hip and I've had pain ever since.
Had similar accidents whilst riding motorcycles had the only damage I sustained was embarrassment, even when the force and weight of the bike has added to the force of the impact.
Distributing that shock to a greater area is so so beneficial.
@@user-co6ww2cm9k
I always geared up when riding my motorcycle, no matter the weather.
The suggestion from Ryan is that the pads are a waste of time and that he removes them and encourages others to do the same issue frankly silly of him.
Some protection is better than no protection and often some protection is the difference between walking away and having to go to hospital.
@@freedomofmotion Yup. Took to Westling armour all winter on the e-bike, figured I already had it so might as well use it. In the end that first icey off was my only one. Think I’ll do that every year when the studded tires go on, seems silly not to.
Hey dudes from FortNine,
As a guy myself riding a bike and working in the filming industry, nice camera work!
Also always interesting content. Keep it up and stay safe! ;)
I find the best armour for comfort is the memory foam inserts I broke my elbow due to hard CE2 inserts it jammed my elbow in a odd position and, snap. Another awesome clip from Ryan as always
"Helpul against abrasion and laceration". not inconsequential
If you have ever had road rash, you would certainly prefer not to have it again
Literally anything other than nothing would be, though. Thats the point. If we are just trying to avoid scrapes, you can do it much better and much thinner than a giant armor pad.
Yep.
I took a slide
The only places I lost skin were where there were no pads.
(3 places none more than 1" diameter.)
Burn through was on one finger, side of knee, and ankle.
Foam is a terrible material to protect against abrasion, its just too soft. You could stuff cheddar in place of the foam and accomplish the same thing.
I had a knee debridement a couple years ago...rather have passed a kidney stone (passed several of those). Cinder gravel on cement, I was wearing off road type MX pants and Fox Titan knee guards which shifted on impact.
Been skateboarding, MTBing, surfing forever. After age 35, I noticed that I don't heal as fast. 2016 was when I realized the significance of ANY protection. Longboarding down my local hill at ~15 mph wearing no pads = Took me about 10 minutes to get up off the ground from the pain. 6 weeks recovering from f-up knees and rash. Bought some non rated knee and elbow pads and did not care how I looked went down that hill again faster. Eventually I fell off, bounced and slid around, got up, got my board and went down the hill again laughing at how ridiculously awesome it felt to fall, take no damage and get up immediately. Picking up moto at 40 it was a no brainer buying as much protection as I could (no airbag yet) and after a few minor falls it is the same feeling. It doesn't change your mind until it happens as most things in life. In a major accident will armor protect you from broken bones or death? Apparently not, but I am wearing my armor for the minor stuff that I know can take me out for weeks and months away from the things I love.
I've been down numerous times and i know that armor lessens the impact. Because I've gotten hurt more from getting knocked down playing basketball. Simple test is run on ice, both would hurt but having gear on will lessen the pain.
Great work on the video and the info was very interesting 🙌
This is irresponsible clickbait and you 100% know it.
Anyone who’s had spills with and without armor knows the injuries are worse when we are NOT wearing armor.
You just did your audience a major disservice.
Agreed, this video is super weird, is this some April fool's joke or something?
…And a disservice to his own credibility.
@@nerychristian So where is armour a negative ? So just wear it for the times it might help.
That was not my takeaway. The video made me realize that this type of protective gear has serious limitations, even when conforming to standards, and that I should be very careful about the brand that I select. He's exposing a flaw that the industry needs to correct, and ultimately, the decision to ride carefully and dress accordingly is up to each individual. That said, it's true that he was a bit too "black and white" about fractures. He should have specified that fractures from a lower-energy impact tend to heal faster and engender less lasting damage.
He did say he’s using the Air vest though
Released on April 1. Good one.
Also, pads are positioned on the JOINTS, hence are not meant to prevent bone fractures as such. Also... PPE is designed to REDUCE the scale of injuries, not to 100% prevent them.
It’s not a joke though. There is a bit more detail in the pinned comment.
He has said in earlier videos that the armor doesn't do much for impacts but rather keeping you off the ground or just a little bit longer. Which is the case.
Right?! Once i hit a rock with my shoe and fell on my knee on the asphalt. Not even on a motorcycle, just running. I couldn't stand on my leg for days and had to bandage it for 3 weeks! I wish i had a knee protector on. I don't want to imagine what could happen if i fell off of a bike.
Have you ever gone down with armor on? If not you can't comment on it. Landed on my side after 50 mph impact with a deer. Armor saved my elbow and shoulder 100%. Boots and gloves saved my feet and hands 100%. Was checked by the ambulance crew and went home after. Only bad injury was my knee that was only protected by jeans.
@@MrLaughingcorpse A well padded boot saved my left outter ankle and toes when I hit and slid down a wall. It was a low speed impact at an angle. Jeans torn, boot front badly 'bruised'. In the same accident, my left shoulder hit the railing on the said wall. I had a big bad bruise just under the joint but nothing else because that was a padded area. And my helmet brushed the railing, luckily it slid along, but that would have hit my jaw.