Why the 270 Degree “Crossplane Twin” is Suddenly So Popular
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- Опубликовано: 26 янв 2024
- Obviously, this means you need to rent a few different parallel-twin motorcycles to compare. For science, of course. Do it affordably and conveniently through Riders Share : www.riders-share.com/welcome/...
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Emissions and cost-cutting ensure that 270-degree parallel twins are all the rage today - but are they really all they're hyped up to be?
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“But super twins pose a problem of their own. See, twins are lovable when they’re little, but grow ‘em up and they always turn out weird. And the same is true of engines.” Damn that's good.
So is "ass-holding companies".
Holding companies? You mean grubby handed banks?
@@lifted_above yes, it's only a throw-away line during the ad bit where he mentions air-BnB.
😂
As someone married to a twin, I endorse this statement on twins.
Check back in a few weeks to see whether this endorsement holds if my wife finds this post. 😂
Hey Ryan, Driving 4 Answers just uploaded a counter argument to your 285 degree statements. Very respectfully done, and I don't think I am alone in hoping to see a discussion between you guys. If for no other reason, just to get two smart dudes chatting.
Thank you. Could not have said it better myself. Thank you.
This!
Yes! If you look at comments on that video, it's actually said multiple times that KTM chooses 285' because the 75 degree intervals sound very similar to their V twin 75' degree engines. Makes sense.
Hey Ryan, Driving 4 Answers just uploaded a video where he doesn't understand why OEMs made the 285 vs the 270... just saying
@@dirtygarageguy lol ignorance is bliss
My brother and I modified a Yamaha XS650 about ten years ago. Changed it from the stock 360 deg configuration to a 277 deg by indexing the crank, cutting the cam in half and welding it back together with one side advanced to match the crank. Worked out to be a 277 deg firing order due to the odd number of splines on the crank; and while it's not a perfect balance it did reduce the engine vibration to the point that I could ride for hours without my arms going numb. The power delivery was smoother, and IMO it sounds much better than it did stock.
If that bike still exists it would be great to see such machine and to listen its engine running.
If it is possible please make a video about her and put it here on RUclips.
Regards from Brazil.✌
I would hope you post a video
There are videos of this crank phase mod out there. They do sound sick!
That sound like bullshit . I'd love you to prove me wrong tho 😂❤
@@K_Nasty Such engine mods as described have been done by Allen Millyard, they are possible.
Having owned (and destroyed) one, I would argue the reason for Yamaha applying the cross plane crankshaft so liberally now was their experience with the TRX (and TDM) 850 already back in the 90s. Both had a 270 degree crankshaft and I have to say it was a really nice engine, even though plagued by the mass market carburetors, like you explained. With expensive aftermarket components it became much smoother on the throttle!
Phenomenal video, Ryan and F9 crew!
Great bikes. I never understood why Yamaha didn't throw the TDM900 motor into an upgraded TRX frame with USD forks etc
Great bikes. I never understood why Yamaha didn't throw the TDM900 motor into an upgraded TRX frame with USD forks etc
Great bikes. I never understood why Yamaha didn't throw the TDM900 motor into an upgraded TRX frame with USD forks etc
I think the TDM 850 had a 360° crankshaft. Yamaha with the TRX was trying to cope with the sound and the power delivery of the Ducati V2. Also the lattice frame was Ducati inspired.
@@valefur72 The first generation TDM (3VD), built from 1991 to 1996, had a 360 degree crankshaft. In 1996, Yamaha switched to a 270 degree crankshaft for the second generation TDM, the 4TX, using the same engine in the TRX with some minor differences. According to Yamaha this was for the reasons mentioned in the video, but most people think it also had something to do with the fact that it now produced a sound more like the Ducati engines it was trying to compete with... The TDM 900 also uses a 270 degree crankshaft.
These videos are some of the best motorcycle consumer journalism available. And they just happen to be videos. I say that as a lifelong journo and rubbish youtuber. Respect to the whole team behind them.
Very true.
Ryan makes me feel like my engineering degree is actually worth something
As a mechanical engineering student, that hurt more than i'd like to admit
When mathematical possibility hits the wall of reality.
Do a physics degree like a grown up
i know, but he studied art lol
Get used to changing tolerances and filing change notifications already while studying...
I once thought aswell that one might end up in an interesting job after this. ^^
I'm constantly amazed at the quality of video that FortNine puts out. I literally never froth over any other content creator but the work that goes into these videos, the comedy, the interesting topics.... it's something else. Well done.
Once again I find myself enthralled in another of Ryans’ science videos that help to explain all things motorcycle. I own a T7 and love the bike…in fact bought it because of your video on this very bike and its engine and frame geometry. Always look forward to your videos…keep up the great work!!
>reads title
>i have no idea what this means
>reads channel name
>go on then
Same
>reads title
>i have no idea what this means
>reads channel name
>go on then
>watches video
>understands what the title means
>huh, neat
>likes yet another FortNine video 👍
Us bro Us
I'm just here for Motorcycle Quentin Tarantino.
Gotta be that guy and point out Yamaha had a 270 degree crank way back in the 90's with the TRX850. I've owned three of them over the years and they are just a delightful machine.
And of course the TDM850 and 900.
@@ernstverbeek1954 Yes, the TDM also was 270 exept the early ones :)
I think that the TDM850 did too. Wonderful bike, and I almost bought it, but then I found out that the seat was held on by VELCRO patches!........................................elsullo
@@ernstverbeek1954 first TDM had the 360 degree crank motor from the road going Super Tenere. The TRX motor was a development of the Dakar race engine and AFAIK it was the first massed production road bike with said 270 crank.
Ryan gets a partial pass on his Yamaha history error because here in North America Yamaha declined to sell us The TRX and the update ‘97 TDM 850. So many great models they kept from us.
As both a KTM twin owner and a father of twins, I loved everything about this video. Cracking watch, thanks as ever.
I repinned the crank on my 1977 Ducati Parallel twin DM 500S to 78' back in 1992. It was a crap engine to start with and i had spent way too much on it, being a highly tuned and modified ex race bike. After much fettling with points cam and valve timing to get it to fire and run, the improvement was insane. A heavy lump of an engine was finally producing respectable horsepower. The thinking behind the mod was using the two pistons as one, albiet with a very long ignition stroke. One fired, and then the next just after the first had passed 78' and still completing fuel burn. The riding sensation was like a gallop, and with a little more fine tuning of carbutrttor and intake manifold length, she was like a big single with a double tap thump and gobs of torque. The DM 500 had a balancer originally, which came in handy, but it was still "unique" to ride on long runs.
Brilliant how Ryan makes the effort to get the specific facts correct, and from first principles to boot. Insight that for the majority of us, would normally just fly over our heads.
Still over my head, but I'll watch anything from Ryan Fortnine.
I have never owned a motorcycle and I still find myself on his channel every time there is a upload
I don’t currently own a motorcycle, but I’m definitely a fan of impeccably made videos & these folks are at the tippy-top of the game.
Me too
It's only a matter of time, you'll join us sooner than later. 🙏😊
That's how it starts. You shall soon be one of us. Mwaahahaha.
Heyyy, fellow Kharade😉
It was not a Holden based engine in the Repco Brabham V8 that Phil Irving designed in the 60s. The F1 championship winning engine he designed was based on a Buick alloy 215 V8 block, the same engine that Rover bought the rights to and then built the Rover V8 which then got built forever. For those that didn't know Irving was Australian which led to his involvement with Repco to develop the engine.
Very very close! The Repco V8 was in fact not based on a Buick 215, but an Oldsmobile F85 (which according to one site I read he purchased for 11 pounds to start testing on). The Buick version had 5 head studs per cylinder, but the F85 had been developed for turbocharging, so it had 6 head studs per cylinder and Brabham and his team thought it would be more appropriate for competition. As both of the engines were developed at the same time in GM and it's only a little machining to the same basic block, it's only a small difference. But now you know.
You are dead right about the fact that Holden had nothing whatsoever to do with the Repco F1 engine though. Phil had a long association with Holden later, building race V8s for the touring cars, but it was well afterward.
As an Australian motorcyclist who owns a Rover V8 powered car, this slip up made me question just how exact all the research at F9 is... but I guess it's just one wrong word in a long (and quite entertaining) video.
Actually it was a slightly modified MZ TS250.......or was it the CZ?
I love the mix of physics and history in all of these videos. Keep up the great work.
Ian McCollum (of Forgotten Weapons) once pointed out that the history of firearms was not a story of firearms technology, but instead is a story of production technology. The same is true for most products, including motorcycles.
It's an important principle in history as a whole. Romans could have made steam power but didn't need to because they had slave labour - only once there's a world power that benefits from banning slavery in the northern hemisphere does the industrial revolution begin
Very well put! That's why racing is so important - it takes the question "what's the best we can do for $25 000?" and adds a couple zeroes. I imagine warfare pushes firearm technology along in a similar (and sadder) way. ~RF9
@@FortNine More in the direction of "what can we make cheaper and quicker when we have to hit the industrial production redline?". It is why America sitting pretty with an unmolested industrial complex and resource base was able to arm all the infantry with Garands. While the Soviets who had the Germans at their throat decided to abandon widespread issue of their battle rifle midwar to shift to cheaper bolt actions and submachine guns.
Production and materials. History isn't made by cool inventions, it's made by someone coming up with a new polymer or alloy that's makes it possible to build the cool invention; and then someone else coming up with the production technology that makes it possible to build a million of them.
Meanwhile it's the marketing guy who gets famous for being the "inventor", and the investors take the profits as their reward for having money in the first place.
@@andrewweitzman4006somebody watched the recent battle rifle video
This channel is what Cycle Magazine would be today, if it were still around. Enjoyable writing and content that you look forward to with each issue.
I was just thinking that Ryan is the next Kevin Cameron, ..with humour!
Cant not subscribe.
That last run of magazines was so good too. Shame they couldn't manage to transition that into video content but you know what, that shit ain't cheap to make and F9 isn't a youtube business, it's a retail business with a youtube channel.
@@patw9175 You are so right about the last run! I remember the final copy was a sport bike comparison, where a bunch of different riders took some scenic, hilly route and rode different bikes and all weighed in. I remember them talking about the dry clutch on the Ducati "chattering" on the hot day that they road.
Yes, you are correct, it was sad when they stopped after having been a subscriber for some three decades...
Just saw a video from “Driving for answers” doing a serious analysis of the claims of this one and without being and engineer, I think he got it right and that some of the claims here are wrong.
The key take away from d4as response is that both 285 and 270 have their advantages and disadvantages. Eg 270 may have better primary and secondary balance, but the rocking couple forces would need attention to be as smooth which would require a larger rotating mass compared to balancing the primary/secondary vibrations of the 285, which affects peak rpm, harmonics and curve.
Different strokes for different blokes just depends on how deep ya wanna reach in ya pockets for F all difference noticed by the consumer.
Very interesting and informative as usual. I can’t help but point out that Triumph twins started offering 270 degree cranks in the mid 2000’s in the Speedmaster and Scrambler models.
Yes, and Yamaha before that. Honda were relatively late to the game. Yamaha are the most innovative of the Jap manufacturers, and I love them for that.
06:56 - don't underestimate the power of sheds. The entire British defence industry was created in a shed. The Sten gun? A shed. The Avro Vulcan? A big shed. A big shed that was designed in a smaller shed.
Same with tech companies. Google? In a $300,000 home garage
Don't forget the L96A1!
Alan Millyard. Nuff said.
The jet engine
Add ACORN/ARM to that list, built in a UK barn.
Every time I think there couldn't be another esoteric motorcycle topic I probably don't even need to have explained to me, Ryan brings about a science/math heavy explanation I didn't even know I was going to love until I was a third of the way in.
Great video.
My exact sentiments! I only clicked on it, not because I thought the topic would be of interest, but because I have never clicked on one of his videos (even accidentally) and not watched the entire length, thoroughly enjoying all of it. This one did not disappoint either! 😏🙂 And as a bonus, I learned something interesting that I didn’t even know was something I wanted to know about! 🤓
The amount of research you put forth in your content is always second to none. I don’t even ride, but I am subscribed just for the sheer entertainment and educational value.
Thank you for the heaps of knowledge Ryan!!
I was wondering when KTM were going to be mentioned as my 890 is much smoother than I expected.
Thanks for the education as always
It's smooth because of the balancer shafts.
@@RedRupert64 its more about the 20% increase in mass, compared to the 790. They both have balancing shafts..
@@pgkr67 Both the 790 and the 890 are smooth, regardless of the weight of their crankshafts. It's the balancer shafts that cause both of them to be smooth.
My Super Duke is an absolute dream to ride.
The line about how they are so willing to spend money kinda goes out the window when you know that all their bikes are built in China.
wake up babe, Fortnine just dropped a new video!!
I’m awake I’m awake!
You talk to your waifu body pillow too, huh?
@@THX5000 what if I am? envious?
Thanks babe
"Not tonight babe, I'm watching FortNine"
Thank you for another awesome high quality video! It really brightens up my sad dark evenings.
Great video as always Ryan. I’m already waiting your April 1st video with great anticipation!
I love to see these videos that show the influence of regulations, engineering, cost, and consumer wishes.
Ryan does an amazing job explaining the real world of design engineering. I spent my career in that world, and Ryan gives the closest to correct layman's explanations that I've seen. There are still a lot of factors he's not discussing; patents for one, the PV diagram for another, but he's doing great.
Oh good! I have a whole video on how California is ruining motorcycles coming up. ~RF9
@@FortNine Even more the EURO regulations?
@@FortNine oh goody, just what I wanted to hear.
@@FortNinejust my .02 but we could just replace motorcycles with everything in that sentence and it would be true in my book.
Pretty cool video. Never knew about the 75/285 degree bit. Yet another reason for me to love KTM, not that I needed anymore reasons to. However I am on their proper v twin, but nice to know their parallel twins are proper also.
Had a duel with a F850 GS some time ago. I destroyed that pal with my 890 ADV R. In paper differences are minimal, IRL there's a big performance gap in favor of KTM
I was thinking the same exact thing. I love my superduke to death 😍
360 twins, one of the greatest bike configuration ever made.
A Phenomenal video as always!
Thank you for this very clear explainer on environmental standards and engine design. I'm just a simple lil guy but you really put things in very clear terms I can completely understand. Always enjoy your work.
Voted best segue's to sponsor, with out even feeling or noticing it. 👍
I never noticed a sponsor. Who?
Best channel on YT.
Always. come away knowing a bit more than I did before watching.
Still riding after 64 years on two wheels.
Thank you Ryan. Consistently superb. Utterly fascinating (though testing the limits of this budget calculator!). Your variety, quality, pace and narrative of content stand alone in it’s quality. I doubt I’m the only one continuing on to browse of KTM‘s latest….
Another awesomely informative science/engineering lesson from Ryan !!❤
1995
Yamaha TDM 850 and TRX 850 was maybe the first? Great bikes and engine.
I have TDM 900.
The video is fantastic, I knew a lot of things, but at the end I didn't know the new information about 285 degrees at all :) Thank you very much!
as a proud xsr700 owner i can tell you nothing feels more like a c8 corvette in bike form than a growling CP2 with a akra exhaust on it. chefs kiss*
Have you tried an MT10?
@@RichardASK No but my Mt09 is a blast.
That was excellent and I loved seeing the cranks being forged......never seen that done. Very cool, thanks!
Thanks Driving for Answers for clearing this up.
a year ago I bought myself a KTM smt 990, it was sitting in someone's back yard for 3 years, so I got it for so cheap, I fixed it up and mended it but when browsing through the workshop manual I found out about their 75° offset V twin, and was baffled.
Why would they do it? what is this odd offset supposed to achieve?
I remember scrolling google for hours trying to find an answer, but nothing.
Now after a year of owning it, I finally get it, Thanks Ryan!!
I'm not sure if the math is the same on V-twins; after all, the piston's mass moves at an angle, and i think the 90deg Vs are the perfectly balanced ones.
@@BartoszBanachewicz Correct, but you are referring to primary balance, and the video discussed, between other topics, secondary balance.
@@amirbechor3768Yes, but on a V motor the forces of the secondary imbalance are not pointing in the same direction. On a V motor the reason to go with a narrower angle is because of packaging and weight centralisation reasons. Aprilia had a 60° V angle on their Rotax motors in the RSV Mille. KTM has the 75°. Both are imperfect in terms of primary and secondary imbalances, but are much smaller than a 90° motor
@@Blockbuster2033 If we use trigonometry to examine what you said, we can divide the forces of the V twin engine to y axis and x axis, the force on the Y axis of cylinder 1 will be the Sin of 52.5° times the length of the stroke, and the Sin of 52.5° + 75° time the length of the stroke for cylinder 2, same goes on for X axis only with Cosin function. we can assume that the forces on the Y axis of each of the piston on a 75 or 60, or 90 degree V twin engine are equal. or am I missing something?
They chose the 75° V-twin for packaging reasons only. There's a balancer shaft to take care if the vibration.
Thank you for making motorcycle engineering simple to understand
I love 270° twins because they expose people who don't know what they are talking about.
You got one thing right: it has to do with second order vibrations.
But as you didn't even talk about the necessary counterbalancing for first order, you don't know what that is.
I've said it a few times over many years but it bears repeating ...
The utter brilliance of this channel's content never fails to amaze 👌...
Interesting as always gentleman. As an Aussie my eas pricked up at the reference to Holden engines. I love that you do your homework👍
Phil Irving is a credit to your country! British motorcycle engineering may have advanced significantly quicker if he was never tempted to return home and switch to cars. I bring him up whenever Kiwis get too smug about John Britten. ~RF9
@@FortNine LoL, you'll be bestowed an Honorary Australian Citizenship for that last sentence!
Yamaha experimented with a 270* xs650 for flat track in the 70s. Guess there wasn't enough advantage to keep going. Lots of people have made a 277* XS650 using stock crank parts for a long time too.
Thanks Ryan that was one of the best videos you’ve done and considering they are all brilliant you raised the bar to quite some height.
I so look forward to your excellent videos! You are in a league of your own.
A nicely presented education on motorcycle engine design wrapped in humor....well done, team!!🤘
Ryan's one of, if not the best motorcycle vloggers out there. I always look forward to his videos! My next motorcycle will have a crossplane: Suzuki GSX-8R; hopefully, sometime later this year :)
Pendantic point - it wasn't a Holden engine Phil Irving tweaked for the Repco Brabham FI car - it was based on the Oldsmobile version of the Buick/Rover 215 V8, never used in any Holdens.
An automotive colleague of mine (we were Melbourne based) attended a Phil Irving lecture in the late 1980s, said he was absolutely brilliant. Went into depth about the coming challenges of emission standards. Also tore apart the "Sarich" Engine which was Big News in Australia at the time "It was a bad idea in 1923 and it's a bad idea now"
Fabulously fascinating and entertaining, as always. Thank you guys.
Imagine how cold and boring life would be without a Fortnine video.
We thank you most kindly.
Yeah - particularly here in Australia
Way back when I dove into the twin pot configuration, I came up with this same conclusion. The problem with balancing the odd offset crank made me look for different cylinder configurations, rather than trying to defeat physics. The best that I could come up with was offset V, where the conrods share the same pin, but the cylinders are pointing off from the center line. This too had it's vibration problems, so adding another pair and then another pair to combat the "brick in centrifuge effect" made it better, but also a V6. After that, I went back to boxer twin.
fascinating, engrossing, entertaining and educational once again! thanks, Ryan, and as always, looking forward to the next one already...
You've certainly done your research. Thank you for great videos.
Was just watching an older video and getting a notification of this new one as that was ending was lovely.
Yamaha had the TDM 850 MK2 (1996) and TDM 900 since 2001. Maybe you didn't get them in NA but the TDMs are super popular in Europe. Great bikes. Both 270 parallel twins.
I was searching for such a comment, thank you for bringing it up. Also the TRX850 (same engine), not the best, lightest or fastest, but very likeable bike.
Yes I had tdm850. Can't say bad thing about it, it's good in every aspect, just not amazing at anything.
Reliable Workhorse kinda bike without any character or emotion which isn't bad thing necessarily but for many people it'll be a deal-breaker.
I had both sides of that equation bikes and appreciate both worlds, wild ktms and reliable Japanese
We got them in Canada. Ryan might be too young. I loved the sound of my 360* Twin Honda, and despised all the other 180* twins sound (still do, lol) I always loved "proper" Sport V-2's and V-4's for their sound, and perked right up at my first hearing of a TDM 850 in person. I filed away the memory that 270* sounded awesome. Now, I love the sound of my 270* first gen 2012 NC700XA. When first finding out about it's architecture, I immediately bought one.
@@fabienlemasson6146 Agree !!
About to say, what about the TRX850? Yamaha brought out 270° in the mid ‘90s
Man your videos have come a long way. Truely perfect content 👌
Thanks Ryan, a new lesson learned.
Man I love this channel.
Honda did a 270 parallel twin earlier than the Africa twin, the NC700 in 2012 was also one.
I was going to post this but see you did first! Someone else has some NC love
The Triumph scrambler had a 270 crank back in 2006
That crinkle sound at 1:56 had me searching for lose speaker cables.
Glad I took it and finally got use of my Trigonometry class years back. I used to question as to why there's 285 instead of 270.. And even thought of it as typo. Ryan nailed it.🎉🎉
another masterpiece of engine principles and how they do work. Thanx, thanx, thanx
these purely informational videos are some of my favorite! Keep em' coming! Plus I love telling people I have a "720 degree single".
360 single for me 😂
I love these videos!!!!! Questions I never thought to ask answered impeccably by Ryan F9!!!!
Love the detail facts we get on so many subjects here!
Another great vid Ryan and Peeps . Another reason for the classic 60’s and 70’s 360 twin ala Norton/BSA/Triumph was that Lucas Electrics (The Prince of Darkness) could only muster a spark every 360 degrees of crank rotation .
And even then, only if it could be bothered.
Thanks for not dumbing this down too much. I really appreciate engineering topics like this done by a competent video crew and writer.
Well explained. What wasnt mentioned is that offbeat sound never sounds like its revving hard. To me it only sounds like the volume is changing. Love the slower revvers
quite possibly one of the best videos on this channel, interesting history and solid explainers.
Shame it was wrong then...
Euro teen here. I don't own a motorcycle personally but dream of owning one someday. I could always get a 125 in the near future but really do not have the financials for both it and living in the future. Still, always watch your content whenever it's uploaded. Quality is unmatched!
A video of the Aprilia SXV 450 v twin 4 stroke 2008 and its history and why they stopped making them would be interesting on your channel. Those bikes were ahead of their time I believe.
I had the RXV and it was the scariest bike I have ever owned. Also one of the prettiest.
Excellent explanation, quality content.
Thank you!
As always ,entertaining and informative . Thank you.
Did you forget the 1991 Yamaha TDM 850? It had a 270 crank as well. It was a marvelous bike down under.
It was 360°. The TRX had the 270° 😉
KTM always did an expectional engineering, their motogp engine is actually 86 degree V4 rather than 90 because they foundnout that's the smallest angle of an V4 with perfect balance like 90 degree one. Making their engine just a little bit tighter for handling and packaging advantage.
They changed to 90 like everyone else
And its still slower than the duc
So grateful Ryan makes these videos. The man is an artist.
Brilliant work as usual Ryan.
I took some time a few years ago to look into the origin of KTM's LC8 V-twin (going over Road and Track/Motorcycle magazines articles, along with releases from KTM themselves), and in that search I found that KTM wanted to make a V twin that had a smaller 3 dimensional footprint than a typical 90-degree V twin from the likes of Ducati and later Suzuki with their SV lineup. Originally the LC8 was slated to be a 72 degree V-twin in its design stage, but was later changed to 75 degrees. I always wondered what the reasoning for that change was.
Now I know.
The 270° twin just works! Love my MT07!
Can't beat the sound for the price of those yamahas.
Thanks Todd Howard.
That feel when your bike is mentioned in an F9 video! 🥰
It's a great engine. One of teh best ever made
@THX5000 You can get an actual 90* V2 cheaper - the suzuki SV650 ;)
Quality content, as always. Love it!
Lovely as always, You're my favourite Ryan.
I think this guy is my favourite motorcycle RUclipsr. No brashness. No hotheaded hot takes. No drama. Just cool facts, cool topics and good information presented in a calm manner but not lethargic in the least.
Good show.
Id really love to see a video on Single Cylinder history and pros and cons. From modern china engines to Rotax to original designs in bikes.
Jeez, Ryan. This video is absolutely brilliant. I shouldn’t have been surprised!
As I recall, the crossplane crank for parallel twins was first suggested by Phil Irving, designer of the Vincent. He looked at a Triumph crank, said, "It will break right here," and suggested the crossplane design as a cure. And in fact, when I was racing dirt track back in the day, those Triumphs that put out 70HP needed crank replacement every 3 or 4 races. Crossplane twins run smoother and have a higher safe rev ceiling.
The Yamaha XS650 parallel twin has a splined crank, making it very easy to 'crossplane'.
I own a KTM 890 Duke R and didn't know it had a 285 degree engine instead of a 270. That makes me happy as it feels that little bit more special :)
This shows you that on paper there are significant differences in design but if you didn’t know and rode a 270 degree and your 285 back to back you wouldn’t notice a difference.
I also love KTM. Own a Husqvarna Svartpilen 701 and want a Duke 890 R
That's gonna come in handy when it inevitably develops issues lol
@@davidvitan3590 Hopefully not. 4 years and 10k miles and no issues so far.
@@mammocas Fingers crossed lol
Back in the 80’s I had what we called a mad maths teacher that also had a love of motorbikes. I was mid teens and already racing dirt bikes so we got along. He kept saying 285 degrees was the way to go and actually set an exam up that basically had us believing it for anyone to pass it. The numbers simply made sense even though I argued (or tried my best) to support the 180 degree crank in my race bike. Unfortunately I have an allergic reaction to the colour orange for KTM machines are out of the equation for me.
Well, you are in luck since KTM just started making bikes in colors other than orange. I think one is a grey / charcoal Duke for 2024.
I love the way my first generation Africa twin engine works it's a great bike and I appreciate all of your hard work once again you outdid yourself
Best motorcycling content on youtube period!
The Yamaha TXR850 and 850/900 TDM in the 1980's/ 90's 270 degrees cranks!
3vd is 360 850 gen2 is 270
@@Knockelhead I had a TDM900, it was definitely was a 270 degree crank, great bike!
@@paulfreespirit yeah I had a 900 to. Had it for 4 years 30k km
The exact crossplane angle will change with the stroke to rod length ratio.
Great video nonetheless!
Ah! Good point!
Actually - no I wonder - what is the magic stroke to rod length ratio that perfectly hits 270 as max velocity??
Maybe someone was smart enough to tweak that into the design, and have it perfect and still have the cheaper manufacture of the right angle crank...
Maybe the Royal Enfield 650?
@@ryaandnice To approach 270, one would need a rod of infinite length and a very short stroke.....
@@tzrider....7586that’s what she said!
Angle has to do with the relative crank pin relationships, not the the rod.
Unless your wording is poor and you're talking about something slightly different.
Excellent video it's the first I have watched by FortNine. I watched it because of it being about crankshaft and firing order and balance. Most interesting.
Dude, once again, you've brightened my day, the observation of Air B&B(witch has little to do w scoots)is worth the whole video, never mind the whole story, and solves the question of, why can't I have another Honda 400 4. . .
KTM's 285 is to replicate the 75° V-twin, not to make it smoother. There are balancer shafts there to do that. We don't really like smooth that much, it's why Triumph has just made their 900 triple a slightly lumpy T-plane.
Is there someone who can explain the Husqvarna Nuda 900's 315° crankshaft configuration? I fell in love with it's sound.
Thank you Ryan you always make the best videos love everything
Bravo! very well done!
how about Husqvarna's 315 degree offset that was originally coming from BMW F800R with 360 degree and then increased to 900cc? That's a bike I rarely seen other than the person who made it famous from UK by the channel of Royal Jordanian.
It makes the engine sound like a Harley AND (supposedly), in certain circumstances it gives you the benefit of a big bang firing order, though I imagine for a bike like the Nuda, the actual usefulness of that is debatable.
@@negergreger666 correct, but the parallel-twin introduced a high revving big bang engine that the Americans couldn't achieve caused by limitation of using pushrod config on their engines instead of overhead camshafts (V twin below 60 degrees are hard to rev high hence the use mostly on cruisers and old engines, except for old Honda Transalp with 52 degrees). That subject is actually good enough to be introduced in this vid as a bonus despite it being a one-off design by Husqvarna engineers when BMW let them go wild.