***** But you are a gray warden and you dont really have the time to become a noble....And you become a Paragon if Bhelen is king aswell and take care of your kid. and the whole thing with Harrowmont basicly ruins Orzammar within 10 years a city who held out of constant seige since the Darkspawn came to be....That is beyond horrible.
Gisle Aune Only if you want orzammar to fall. but the anvil should be destroyed. Harrowmont sucks as a leader. he makes the town fall in a generation. "Unfortunately, that isolated the dwarves even further from the surface. Caste restrictions and the rights of the nobles both grew, and trade with the human lands was all but cut off.” "“In Orzammar, King Harrowmont found himself in a protracted battle against Bhelen's rebellion that left him unable to gain the stability he needed. The clan lords objected to many of his measures in the Assembly, and only his efforts to increase the dwarves' isolation from the surface met with any success.” "“When the first human armies arrived from Ferelden, they found themselves blocked at the city gates. Harrowmont feared the disruption the humans would cause and permitted only limited aid in the form of equipment and herbal medicines.”"
ragsash Ah, I stand corrected then. I must have remembered the Bhelen endings wrongly or read the wrong thread when looking up the endings for Orzammar.
He may actually care about the player noble dwarf more then he lets on in the third game when the warden goes missing he unlike harrowmount does not give up search for him and i think both name him a paragon.
@@joshuagross3151 they did a very good job with the dwarf noble storyline much like all the other origin stories. Dwarf noble one shows the true nature of politics.
The whole thing with Leske upset me. He was one of my favorite decent characters and then this shit happens. :/ But then I played the sequel and Varric showed up and I felt a lot better :3 Same actor too. He apparently has a thing for playing likable dwarves, wether they end up traitorous dirt bags or not.
If there's one downside to the commoner origin, it's that it's virtually impossible to side against Bhelen in it. Oh sure I COULD side with Harrowmont, but having my own sister refer to me as a traitor would just be too much for me to want to do it.
Draupnir Foamybeard To be honest both are incompetent, because Bioware doesn't understand politics at all. They've also Flanderized Harrowmont's incompetence to kiss Bhelen's ass. Bhelen is the obviously better choice between the two, no question, but falls into a lot of the same pitfalls that Harrowmont does (namely that Bhelen owes his victory entirely to the Warden, never mind how his method of accruing support is remarkably prone to backfiring in a realistic scenario when one examines Orzammar's structure). Spoilers below Also Bioware has been incredibly inconsistent with Bhelen's actions. In DAII they say he disbanded the Assembly. In Inquisition he still hasn't disbanded the Assembly, per banter from Dwarves in Halamshiral. This in conjunction with how they took Harrowmont's ending slides with Golems -- which had him stop Branka from taking Dwarves for the Anvil, and she responded to this by kidnapping -- and Bhelen's which had him press Branka for more Golems only to have her shut down and stop where he launched a siege against her.... to reversing them entirely. That is to say, Harrowmont is now the one who's pressing Branka, while Bhelen is the one stopping her from taking more lives. They make Bhelen seem a Saint all for the sake of kissing his ass and Harrowmont seem brain-dead. Bhelen is the better choice between the two -- though the A vs. B dichotomy of the narrative is remarkably dull -- but not by much, because when you look at Bhelen through a more nuanced perspective rather then accept Bioware's spoonfeeding of it because they can never keep things straight, you find that his competence is that he can only marginally improve on the status quo. All of this, of course, being shit I talk about on my tumblr account.
Draupnir Foamybeard Except Varric says it in 9:34 Dragon by way of his Signet Ring quest, saying his contact in Orzammar told him it's already been done. But Inquisition's comments happen in 9:41 Dragon on how it's still around, while also telling us that the Houses still have their personal forces that they're using for their own agendas. That is precisely the problem that was going on in Aeducan's time. part of what sold Bhelen as being good at all was the fact that he was willing to disband the Assembly and unify the army under one banner. That he was willing to do what Eithnar Bemot did during the 4th Blight, which was declare that in times of war the entire Warrior caste answered to the king. And to be perfectly frank, the Dwarves are in an Eternal War -- such that Kardol will tell surfacers that "their nightmare is his everyday" and even Dwarven codexes refer to it as their war that they struggle against. So it becomes hard to say that he hasn't done it yet when it's said it's already been done just a few years after he's been crowned, and then hasn't been done in Inquisition (and it's not just Halamshiral. I believe a few War Table missions mention the Assembly as still being around). But I never saw either Harrowmont or Bhelen as being capable of bringing the change Orzammar needs. Bhelen is actually remarkably obvious and Harrowmont's too weak.
My Dwarf Noble supported Bhelen because if you support Harrowmont, that's the end of the Aeducan dynasty. I'm pretty sure Harrowmont ends up with failing health anyway, so he's not king for long...
Anthony Murano except Bhelen kills your brother and frames you in that origin, then executes harrowmont the second he gets crowned, any other origin it's fine, but not for Dwarf noble
I cant be the only one who misses the less shiny look of origins compared to inquisition Don't get me wrong I love inquisition I just don't like how everyone look sweaty
Grey Warden yeah but I hope the next one is scaled down a bit the whole leading an entire organization was a bit extreme I miss the whole thing of you just being a rag tag group of people
yeah but I always play as a HN not a DC, DN, EC, ED or M (though I just play their stories to get the cheivo) but if I played as a DC then I would support Bhelen because Rica will....disown you if you don't.
Dragon age really outdid themselves with references to the other possible warden dead dwarf commoner in prison or dead noble dwarf framed for murder yada yada and each have a complete opposite perspective
Harrowmont: "He is polite, honorable, friendly, loyal, and trustworthy. And he is so prejudiced against the casteless you couldn't even call him a Noble Bigot with a Badge." tv tropes
0:19 When I returned to Orzammar, the first thing I wanted to do was throw this asshat into a magma pit. I have absolutely no regret putting Bhelen on the throne to change the system.
@@fawnieee Nah you can father a full blooded dwarf in the origin story, then you get an excusive quest called "Of Noble Birth" where he's casteless because you were exiled and you secure him a place in the noble caste by helping a new King of Orzammar take the throne, then you get to name him either after yourself, your father, Duncan, Gorim or Trian
He had no honor, he gained no mercy. Evil comes from people who "had to" survive. They choosen to lower themself to lenghten their worthless lives just like Lesky did. If you ever watched SG, a surviving Asgard says to ensure your species survival any means possible. Because the next generation would look down on you, but there would be a next generation to look down on you. I understand that we didn't lived what Lesky had to go through. But Lesky never did anything to change that. The only thing he ever did in his life, was to lick deep into the asshole he seen to have the biggest voice. Death for his miserable existence was the greatest gift you could ever give to him.
He had the chance to say "I fucked up, but let's turn the tables" the moment the Warden walked it he could've sided with her but he had to be a spineless rat
+MamboJambo Petty idealism. If you are casteless social mobility in Orzammar is impossible, you and your sister being rare exceptions. You are either a beggar or a criminal, saying generic things like "evil comes from..." and "he never attempted to change..." only shows how far that idea is from being anywhere applicable in reality. All casteless live perpetually miserable lives; you'd be suggesting killing them would be the right thing to do, it obviously isn't. Leske is the warden's friend and there should be an option to spare him
@@almamater489 this was a hard one for me. While I was formerly pissed he betrayed me, there was a side that understood. Leske (I'm certain) knew no other life than following the carta, he must have felt more or less abandoned when the warden left (even by no choice of their own). Backstabbing and betraying had been what he knew best, perhaps that's all he knew. When the warden returned, I doubt he barely recognised she/he and from that lack of recognition I think there was a lack of trust. It does not help that the supposed reason the warden was cleaning out the carta was for some high lordling, not for the sake of Dust Town. Besides, how could he have known how capable the warden was and most certainly, the wardens companions? He probably thought his best bet was Jarvia. That's just how I see, anyway. Perhaps if he sided with the warden he could have joined them on their quest to defeat the Blight. Of more than likely, he would have been left in Dust Town to rot until the next carta leader came along and refused his services for fear of turning his cloak. And I doubt he could have been a carta leader since most of dust Town would see him as nothing more than a shill who helped a Lord through the warden. Just imo. I think he would have led a pretty miserable life if he did stick with the warden.
@@fawnieee Put into this perspective, it makes the blow that much less painful. I don't judge or blame him for siding against the Warden, in his eyes, it was his only option, he didn't know of anything else other than the carta. More importantly, he had climbed the ranks against all odds, he didn't want to go back to being nothing more than a street rat, he had a taste of "the good life" and didn't want to give it up. It's a pity that it had to end this way, but ultimately, it was either live miserably in vain hopes that things may become better or die while he was still riding high with gold in his hands. He chose the latter.
Sure Harrowmont is a good guy but he have some of the worst endings for Orzamar Death By Poison Using Golems for people not to get in Orzammar Cutting all contact with the surface Sometimes helping the moraly good guy is not so good
I love the implication that the Hero of Ferelden could’ve been many people, and the only event that decides which one meets his destiny is where Duncan decides to visit.
It's amazing attention to detail, I also love how it drastically changes how certain races treat you. Humans will belittle you if you're an elf, dwarves will scour at you for being casteless, the Dalish only welcome one of their own, not those raised in a city or circle and of course being a Cousland gets you admiration
What made Dragon Age Origins stand out from every other generic wrpgs was how the origin you chose for your character affected parts of the story. Dragon Age 4 better add this in some way or else its gonna be pretty bad
@@SteelSpurs simple for the same reason we will never get to see our warden, to much work. I played origin as a elven circle mage who hated how she as a mage was treated. I don’t know how you played your game but you most likely played it very differently than what I did. It worked for origin because it at the time didn’t have to take every action and potential outcomes into account when making the next game. It’s shame, because it was one of many things that made origin better then the sequels. But sadly many of the people who worked on origin no longer work at BioWare, and so it’s left in the hands of other people.
I don’t get why people complain about Bhelen killing off his competition. It’s stated a few times that dwarfen politics are brutal and bloody-which is acceptable in their society. On top of that, Flemeth gives an interesting piece of fact to Alister after being treated. After Alister complains about Loghain having King Cailen killed to gain the throne, Flemeth replies with: “You act as if he would be the first king to gain his throne that way.” Which I feel is a great thing to bear in mind, even in a dwarfen matter. Even as a dwarf noble, if you’re not blinded by vengeance, you have to see where Bhelen went and somehow respect his tact in the game of dwarfen politics. On top of that, think about the endings. Harrowmont put on a good show of the ‘pity-me-old, honorable and morally right’ man. Yet completely fucks over Orzammar. On top of that, Bhelen makes a fair point in bringing up the fact that no one truly knows what King Endrin said in his final moments. Side with Bhelen and he drags Orzammar into a new, modern era-even if he had to kill 2 (or 1, if playing dwarf noble). Sacrificing the few for the many and the greater ambition. He’s ruthless, politically clever, yet it’s that kind of motivation and power that’ll bring Orzammar to greater heights and out from its overbearing clinginess to traditions, fear of the surface and caste systems.
Well, no. Behlen is a nasty piece of... nug! First off, just because something is common, does not make it right or acceptable. Behlen's actions, based on our own moral code, are reprehensible. Killing your kin for power? Yeah, it does not matter how mundane that is in Orzammar, it's still unforgivable. "Harrowmont put on a good show of the ‘pity-me-old, honorable and morally right’ man." No, he does not put up a show. He is an honorable man. He is also a traditionalist. He is honest with his intentions and he is no murderer... and he stands with you if you are a Dwarf Noble. "Yet completely fucks over Orzammar." That is a matter of perspective. "On top of that, Bhelen makes a fair point in bringing up the fact that no one truly knows what King Endrin said in his final moments." Behlen is lying. Endrin did realize that Behlen was a rotten egg and he did not want him on the throne. You can know that by reading the paper on Harrowmont's desk in his quarters. Plus if you are a Noble Dwarf, Gorim gives you a letter from your father, that further proves Harrowmont right. "Side with Bhelen and he drags Orzammar into a new, modern era" Right... :) His first action is to send his political enemies on the surface to fight an Archdemon and hopefully die doing so. He is a tyrant, who ends the Assemby soon after he takes the throne. What is wrong about Orzammar can be changed without tyranny. Behlen is never my choice, unless I play an evil character.
Bhelen reminds me of a man in the history book. Ruthless "liberal-minded" politician. Julius Caesar. Their ruthlessness ended the old ways and the new ways literally brought a better age for their people, but both are hated by the aristocrats. Sadly Bhelen is not as strong in military ability as Caesar. And the Dwarven civil war gave the feels of the scramble of western europe on the hands of Charlemagne's children. Killing each other to get their father's throne.
Helping Harrowmont as a commoner is literally the most pointless thing ever. At least as a Noble it makes some kind of sense if you help Bhelen, so that the Aeducan name remains in power. Even if he did kill your brother and frame you...sometimes the name is more important than the truth especially when it comes to politics and royalty. But as a commoner, you have to be a total snake to help kill your sisters lover, and allow people (your people) to continue starving in Dust Town. I understand that choices are there for rpg reasons, but it makes zero sense to help Harromont as a commoner.
Wow... she was thoroughly brainwashed wasn't she? She's easy to manipulate and is so oddly happy when the warden sacrifices himself/herself to the archdemon and is up for paragonship instead of being broken over.
I know this is pretty outdated, but still. First time I choosen Harrowmont, because of justice/vengeance. It worked out horribly, just as written above. I also went with Caridin, to destroy golem. In my second playthrough, I read a lot of books, codexes, looked around, searched and other things. Harrowmont is a bad guy. He is the typical Dwarf noble. Corrupt, backstabbing, promises a lot of lies, plotting.. basicly a politician. He ruins multiple businesses, craftsmans, and makes promises which later turn out to be lies, which puts others into trouble. After reading this much of him, I could imagine a lot... but killing Trian doesn't seem to benefit him BUT! Trian would've been an absolutely bad king. He was hated even amongs the nobles, because dwarfen politics stand from trying to keep tradition/having honor, while trying to ensure that the dwarfs still somehow survive. Which barely works out. But Trian, didn't even tried that. He was stupid. He would've been a tyrant, and destroyed the dwarfs. So, this is where everything is connected. Bhelen would've taken every power and made changes, which Harrowmoont and others didn't like. (having castless everywhere) However - however... Your character would've been a bad king, for you are the soldier boy, by dwarf traditions. But not as bad as Trian. So (again) if Harrowmont could've blamed Trian's death on Bhelen, than you would've been King and the political puppet of Harrowmont, while he would've had every power connected and run through himself! In the end this was a playdown of dwarf politics between Harrowmont and Bhelen. As in lore, this is the clash of the old&new. If you choose Bhelen he will make things right. He will assemble good expeditions, take measures, introduces new customs, makes new laws, destroys unfair and outdatted dwarvish traditions. He won't just take back thaigs, a lot! But also ensures that they would not be taken back, which a lot of other kings didn't do. Also opens a full legal trade towards the outside world, and takes their technics, culture, which helps the dwarven kingdom a lot. He will deal with the casteless, starts rehabilating them, work, rebuild. Bhelen also recaptured old parts of the deep roads/dwarven kingdom, which he made into dwarven "districts" or sth. So he bascily colonized new dwarven cities, and made safe routes in between. While Harrowmont will get poisoned after a 2-3 years, because he is incompetent as king, and clashes with the casteless. Part of this is from DAO, but also Inquisition. When you go to the deep roads (DAI) you can find a lot of text about what Bhelen did.
5:24 Leske being the meddling dwerven ally we love, voiced long before since morphing into Varric 😆😍😘 And then, he betrays us lol 😂 Not telling us the complete truth kind of like Varric with Cassandra I see ☠️☠️☠️
The whole thing with Leske broke my fucking heart. I wasn't that surprised it happened, but it still hurt. Like, you escaped prison with me, bro! We did crime together! How could you turn your back on me like that?!
I could only see Bhelen being a good person if it turned out his brother was a complete asshole. Say the male Aeducan was a ruthless SOAB like Trian, and Bhelen was actually acting out of Orzammar's best interests, despite his particularly ruthless ambitions himself? To that end, Bhelen kinda reminds me of a dwarven Griffith (from Berserk), if that makes sense. Not necessarily a nice person, but working towards honorable goals. It's just a shame that the guy we _know_ is benevolent, Lord Harrowmont, turns out to be an inept leader in place of Bhelen...
As dwarven Noble Aeducan I would love to see my Nephew Endrin fight it out with my Son Trian, the next dwarven Conspiracies are already on their way...
Imagine that kids history; prince to the throne but also nephew of the grey warden. If he was skilled enough, in any faction then he’d probably be a first one to the throne.
Dwarf commoner was my first playthrough, and when he told me they had taken u shop at my old house I was like " OH HEEEEEEEEELL NO!!!!!" but when I found out what Leske did, I felt genuinely hurt. And before anyone says it, yes I know it isn't real, I just get invested is all.
Even if you keep the Envil of the Void, Bhelen is still the better option. Yes Bhelen goes a bit crazy, but Branka actually sees the light and stops producing Golems. While with Harrowmount as king, Branka actually starts a war with the rest of Fereldan since she start kidnapping humans and elves.
I think you got your wires crossed a bit here. If you keep the Anvil and Bhelen is made king, he supplies her with volunteers until she refuses to make golems only for him. Bhelen then outlaws golems and Branka shuts herself in Caridin's Workshop.
"The Assembly is no place for a woman"? What were they thinking when they gave him that line? The assembly is full of female representatives, lol. Both genders can hold seats.
As a dwarf noble this makes me sick, that traitorous bastard framed me for killing my brother (Who was an ass hole granted) and got me kicked out of Orzammar and drove our father to death by depression. I would rather see all of Orzammar burn than him sitting on the throne. My headcanon is this after Harrowmont fucks everything up I stride into the halls and declare myself king. Those who oppose me are welcome to try and kill me but Sevran, Leliana, and my Dog will be able to take care of most of them, throw in that those who supported Harrowmont will likely side with me and that I am best friends with the King of Ferelden taking the throne won't prove too difficult, after all, I killed the God damn Archdemon I can handle a few dwarfs who don't know what's best for them. I then lead the Dwarfs to take back everything the Dark spawn took. After years of being the greatest king in Orzammar history, I then die of old age in bed with a belly full of wine and a girls mouth around my cock.
I cannot chose. I started a Dwarf Commoner but I realised that my sister is the concubinie of Prince Bhelen. I should chose Bhelen but Bhelen is evil :(
Leske man. I wish he could of lived! I know he betrayed me but damn i wish you could of taken him to the surface with you! Hes like the loveable dumb lug in every group. haha I kinda wish you could of had a romance with him!
When I played the noble dwarf in DA Origins on the PS3 and returned to Ozarmar, everyone acted like they did not knw me, They acted like when my human character entered and related with everyone. WTF!! Y din’t my storyline not act like the one above??
Rica: "I know you are a Warden now, but to me youre always will be that little girl toddling around and pulling up on door handles" Bitch please, i slay dozens of darkspawn for breakfest every morning. xD
hmmm what if the casteless all moved to the service? they'd have better lives and they're not contributing to the economy in any way except crime. are they the only classes with issues or do all the lower classes want to rebel? i wish we got more insight to the castes and numbers and things, but if the top is warrior caste then i can't see the poor having much of a chance.
Choosing a king in Orzammar is political mess. There is no right choice. Choosing between a toad and a viper. I think it's better to choose the one who is mentioned more in the sequels. And this is Belen because he is making connections with the surface.
Dwarf commoner I always side with bhelen he makes rica happy and the casteless are people dwarf noble I side with Harrowmont been frame me for a murder I me sentence to die
I really liked Leske... too bad for him. Old friends should know not to mess with the Warden. Sadly the only time when Leske can be alive is when you are NOT a Dwarven Commoner.
Since my 1st Playthru was as a Dwarf Noble i have trouble siding with Bhelen. Harrowmont may be the not best choice at least hes Honorable. And according to DAI Decent DLC he's still alive.
@@Palpad100 it depends. If you side with Branka with the anvil Harrowmant gets enough power to maintain his thrown and create peace. The casteless still suffer but there are no assassinations and executions that you'd get with Bhelen
I don’t understand why leske is her top man in this origin, but a prisoner in every other origin. It doesn’t really make sense considering every origin happened, it’s just that the arrival of Duncan changes the fate because he saves or helps the warden in every origin in some way. (Saves Mahariel, gives alienage elf weapons to save spouse, deep roads expedition in noble origin, rescues cousland, etc) , but the commoner origin shouldn’t really change because all Duncan did was stop you, not leske, from being arrested by conscripting you. I’m assuming Berat was still murdered by you and leske, Leske AND the commoner were arrested, I don’t see why Leske wouldn’t try and persuade Jarvia to become the right hand man again. Unless the proving in Duncan’s honor somehow changed the timeline.
The origins all happen, yes, but they change if you don't play them. Upon meeting Leske in the Carta prison as any non Dwarf Commoner origin, he'll say his friend stopped eating and died. That friend is the Dwarf Commoner. The Commoner is the one who gets them out of prison in their origin. So, because the Commoner died, Leske never got out of jail.
@Ethan Schultz I agree. My dad was much the same. There is never an excuse to be so disgusting and belligerent to your children. She doesn't even change afterwards.
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It's all the more annoying that bhaelen is actually a Good King that brings power to Orzammar, while Harrowmont is good intentioned but inept...
How is Harrowmont good intentioned? He oppresses the castless, while Bhelen actually makes things better for them.
***** But you are a gray warden and you dont really have the time to become a noble....And you become a Paragon if Bhelen is king aswell and take care of your kid. and the whole thing with Harrowmont basicly ruins Orzammar within 10 years a city who held out of constant seige since the Darkspawn came to be....That is beyond horrible.
Isn't [SPOILER]Harrowmont + Anvil Destroyed[/SPOILER] the best ending for the dwarves?
Gisle Aune Only if you want orzammar to fall. but the anvil should be destroyed. Harrowmont sucks as a leader. he makes the town fall in a generation.
"Unfortunately, that isolated the dwarves even further from the surface. Caste restrictions and the rights of the nobles both grew, and trade with the human lands was all but cut off.”
"“In Orzammar, King Harrowmont found himself in a protracted battle against Bhelen's rebellion that left him unable to gain the stability he needed. The clan lords objected to many of his measures in the Assembly, and only his efforts to increase the dwarves' isolation from the surface met with any success.”
"“When the first human armies arrived from Ferelden, they found themselves blocked at the city gates. Harrowmont feared the disruption the humans would cause and permitted only limited aid in the form of equipment and herbal medicines.”"
ragsash Ah, I stand corrected then. I must have remembered the Bhelen endings wrongly or read the wrong thread when looking up the endings for Orzammar.
He likes his half brother/sister more then his actual brother/sister.
His sister/brother in law has use to him, while his actual siblings means nothing but walls he has to overcome.
He may actually care about the player noble dwarf more then he lets on in the third game when the warden goes missing he unlike harrowmount does not give up search for him and i think both name him a paragon.
@@Wilsontripplets You made him king. It reflects poorly on him if he doesn't look for you when you vanish. He's all about looks, remember?
@@joshuagross3151 they did a very good job with the dwarf noble storyline much like all the other origin stories. Dwarf noble one shows the true nature of politics.
The whole thing with Leske upset me. He was one of my favorite decent characters and then this shit happens. :/ But then I played the sequel and Varric showed up and I felt a lot better :3 Same actor too. He apparently has a thing for playing likable dwarves, wether they end up traitorous dirt bags or not.
"Morrigan, turn into a spider and eat my mother."
If there's one downside to the commoner origin, it's that it's virtually impossible to side against Bhelen in it. Oh sure I COULD side with Harrowmont, but having my own sister refer to me as a traitor would just be too much for me to want to do it.
Draupnir Foamybeard To be honest both are incompetent, because Bioware doesn't understand politics at all. They've also Flanderized Harrowmont's incompetence to kiss Bhelen's ass. Bhelen is the obviously better choice between the two, no question, but falls into a lot of the same pitfalls that Harrowmont does (namely that Bhelen owes his victory entirely to the Warden, never mind how his method of accruing support is remarkably prone to backfiring in a realistic scenario when one examines Orzammar's structure).
Spoilers below
Also Bioware has been incredibly inconsistent with Bhelen's actions. In DAII they say he disbanded the Assembly. In Inquisition he still hasn't disbanded the Assembly, per banter from Dwarves in Halamshiral. This in conjunction with how they took Harrowmont's ending slides with Golems -- which had him stop Branka from taking Dwarves for the Anvil, and she responded to this by kidnapping -- and Bhelen's which had him press Branka for more Golems only to have her shut down and stop where he launched a siege against her....
to reversing them entirely. That is to say, Harrowmont is now the one who's pressing Branka, while Bhelen is the one stopping her from taking more lives. They make Bhelen seem a Saint all for the sake of kissing his ass and Harrowmont seem brain-dead.
Bhelen is the better choice between the two -- though the A vs. B dichotomy of the narrative is remarkably dull -- but not by much, because when you look at Bhelen through a more nuanced perspective rather then accept Bioware's spoonfeeding of it because they can never keep things straight, you find that his competence is that he can only marginally improve on the status quo.
All of this, of course, being shit I talk about on my tumblr account.
Draupnir Foamybeard Except Varric says it in 9:34 Dragon by way of his Signet Ring quest, saying his contact in Orzammar told him it's already been done. But Inquisition's comments happen in 9:41 Dragon on how it's still around, while also telling us that the Houses still have their personal forces that they're using for their own agendas.
That is precisely the problem that was going on in Aeducan's time.
part of what sold Bhelen as being good at all was the fact that he was willing to disband the Assembly and unify the army under one banner. That he was willing to do what Eithnar Bemot did during the 4th Blight, which was declare that in times of war the entire Warrior caste answered to the king. And to be perfectly frank, the Dwarves are in an Eternal War -- such that Kardol will tell surfacers that "their nightmare is his everyday" and even Dwarven codexes refer to it as their war that they struggle against.
So it becomes hard to say that he hasn't done it yet when it's said it's already been done just a few years after he's been crowned, and then hasn't been done in Inquisition (and it's not just Halamshiral. I believe a few War Table missions mention the Assembly as still being around).
But I never saw either Harrowmont or Bhelen as being capable of bringing the change Orzammar needs. Bhelen is actually remarkably obvious and Harrowmont's too weak.
My Dwarf Noble supported Bhelen because if you support Harrowmont, that's the end of the Aeducan dynasty. I'm pretty sure Harrowmont ends up with failing health anyway, so he's not king for long...
Anthony Murano except Bhelen kills your brother and frames you in that origin, then executes harrowmont the second he gets crowned, any other origin it's fine, but not for Dwarf noble
You would let a whole race fall into ruin just for some petty revenge?
I cant be the only one who misses the less shiny look of origins compared to inquisition Don't get me wrong I love inquisition I just don't like how everyone look sweaty
+Assassin Cactus Indeed, that is a downside to frostbite.
John Doe well I don't think it's just frost bite I felt that the witcher 3 had the same problem
+Assassin Cactus Origins had the best artwork, in my opinion.
Da:O will always be legendary
Grey Warden yeah but I hope the next one is scaled down a bit the whole leading an entire organization was a bit extreme I miss the whole thing of you just being a rag tag group of people
So far I've only played as the Dwarf Commoner, and when Rica showed up I was like, "Well, now I know who I'm supporting."
yeah but I always play as a HN not a DC, DN, EC, ED or M (though I just play their stories to get the cheivo) but if I played as a DC then I would support Bhelen because Rica will....disown you if you don't.
that and Harrowmont believes that you should not be born
Me too! Especially when Bhelin referred to me as "little sister."
Dragon age really outdid themselves with references to the other possible warden dead dwarf commoner in prison or dead noble dwarf framed for murder yada yada and each have a complete opposite perspective
Also they mention "two Dalish elves" who died from a strange mirror aka Tamlen and would-be warden
To be fair all player characters exist even if you don’t play as them; they are just implied dead or imprisoned
Harrowmont: "He is polite, honorable, friendly, loyal, and trustworthy. And he is so prejudiced against the casteless you couldn't even call him a Noble Bigot with a Badge." tv tropes
Rica: It's a fine day with you around
Lol that's like the woman on skyrim, right?
This comment punched me in the face a year after its writing and I think I’ll be able to recognize this VA forever now
I was more heartbroken about Leske betraying me than anything else in my dwarf commoner playthrough lol I just liked the guy.
0:19 When I returned to Orzammar, the first thing I wanted to do was throw this asshat into a magma pit. I have absolutely no regret putting Bhelen on the throne to change the system.
no dwarf commoner ever chose harrowmont. ever
Even as noble too i think.Yeah bhaelen betrayed you but you kill him and you family line ends so i always side with him even when im noble dwarf.
Not if you are Male Dwarf Noble. You can father kids before you leave.
I was a dwarf commoner and chose Harrowmont, in the end i became a Paragon and my family became noble
@@sarethuskami5082 sure, but you need someone like Morrigan to accomplish that. I can't imagine many nobles would be becoming to a "half breed".
@@fawnieee Nah you can father a full blooded dwarf in the origin story, then you get an excusive quest called "Of Noble Birth" where he's casteless because you were exiled and you secure him a place in the noble caste by helping a new King of Orzammar take the throne, then you get to name him either after yourself, your father, Duncan, Gorim or Trian
I wish it were possible to spare Leske. He was only doing what he felt he had to do to survive.
He had no honor, he gained no mercy. Evil comes from people who "had to" survive. They choosen to lower themself to lenghten their worthless lives just like Lesky did.
If you ever watched SG, a surviving Asgard says to ensure your species survival any means possible. Because the next generation would look down on you, but there would be a next generation to look down on you.
I understand that we didn't lived what Lesky had to go through. But Lesky never did anything to change that. The only thing he ever did in his life, was to lick deep into the asshole he seen to have the biggest voice.
Death for his miserable existence was the greatest gift you could ever give to him.
He had the chance to say "I fucked up, but let's turn the tables" the moment the Warden walked it he could've sided with her but he had to be a spineless rat
+MamboJambo Petty idealism. If you are casteless social mobility in Orzammar is impossible, you and your sister being rare exceptions. You are either a beggar or a criminal, saying generic things like "evil comes from..." and "he never attempted to change..." only shows how far that idea is from being anywhere applicable in reality. All casteless live perpetually miserable lives; you'd be suggesting killing them would be the right thing to do, it obviously isn't. Leske is the warden's friend and there should be an option to spare him
@@almamater489 this was a hard one for me. While I was formerly pissed he betrayed me, there was a side that understood. Leske (I'm certain) knew no other life than following the carta, he must have felt more or less abandoned when the warden left (even by no choice of their own). Backstabbing and betraying had been what he knew best, perhaps that's all he knew. When the warden returned, I doubt he barely recognised she/he and from that lack of recognition I think there was a lack of trust. It does not help that the supposed reason the warden was cleaning out the carta was for some high lordling, not for the sake of Dust Town. Besides, how could he have known how capable the warden was and most certainly, the wardens companions? He probably thought his best bet was Jarvia.
That's just how I see, anyway. Perhaps if he sided with the warden he could have joined them on their quest to defeat the Blight. Of more than likely, he would have been left in Dust Town to rot until the next carta leader came along and refused his services for fear of turning his cloak. And I doubt he could have been a carta leader since most of dust Town would see him as nothing more than a shill who helped a Lord through the warden.
Just imo. I think he would have led a pretty miserable life if he did stick with the warden.
@@fawnieee Put into this perspective, it makes the blow that much less painful. I don't judge or blame him for siding against the Warden, in his eyes, it was his only option, he didn't know of anything else other than the carta. More importantly, he had climbed the ranks against all odds, he didn't want to go back to being nothing more than a street rat, he had a taste of "the good life" and didn't want to give it up. It's a pity that it had to end this way, but ultimately, it was either live miserably in vain hopes that things may become better or die while he was still riding high with gold in his hands. He chose the latter.
I was really upset about Leske betraying me :( I'd have let him live if I could
Sure Harrowmont is a good guy but he have some of the worst endings for Orzamar
Death By Poison
Using Golems for people not to get in Orzammar
Cutting all contact with the surface
Sometimes helping the moraly good guy is not so good
He used the golems against the rebellion but then stopped using them after and even banned it
@@twinzzlers god damn bro it’s been six years. It’s weird to read this again
now read it after 7
I love the implication that the Hero of Ferelden could’ve been many people, and the only event that decides which one meets his destiny is where Duncan decides to visit.
It's amazing attention to detail, I also love how it drastically changes how certain races treat you. Humans will belittle you if you're an elf, dwarves will scour at you for being casteless, the Dalish only welcome one of their own, not those raised in a city or circle and of course being a Cousland gets you admiration
Good King Bhelen, player of the game of thrones
What made Dragon Age Origins stand out from every other generic wrpgs was how the origin you chose for your character affected parts of the story. Dragon Age 4 better add this in some way or else its gonna be pretty bad
The developers of Dragon age has already stated that multiple origins won’t happen again
There are many things that make origins better
@@op-qn4kb Agreed 100%
@@OmegaTav But why? It was one of the main appeals of Origins.
@@SteelSpurs simple for the same reason we will never get to see our warden, to much work. I played origin as a elven circle mage who hated how she as a mage was treated.
I don’t know how you played your game but you most likely played it very differently than what I did.
It worked for origin because it at the time didn’t have to take every action and potential outcomes into account when making the next game.
It’s shame, because it was one of many things that made origin better then the sequels. But sadly many of the people who worked on origin no longer work at BioWare, and so it’s left in the hands of other people.
I don’t get why people complain about Bhelen killing off his competition. It’s stated a few times that dwarfen politics are brutal and bloody-which is acceptable in their society.
On top of that, Flemeth gives an interesting piece of fact to Alister after being treated.
After Alister complains about Loghain having King Cailen killed to gain the throne, Flemeth replies with: “You act as if he would be the first king to gain his throne that way.” Which I feel is a great thing to bear in mind, even in a dwarfen matter.
Even as a dwarf noble, if you’re not blinded by vengeance, you have to see where Bhelen went and somehow respect his tact in the game of dwarfen politics.
On top of that, think about the endings. Harrowmont put on a good show of the ‘pity-me-old, honorable and morally right’ man. Yet completely fucks over Orzammar. On top of that, Bhelen makes a fair point in bringing up the fact that no one truly knows what King Endrin said in his final moments.
Side with Bhelen and he drags Orzammar into a new, modern era-even if he had to kill 2 (or 1, if playing dwarf noble). Sacrificing the few for the many and the greater ambition. He’s ruthless, politically clever, yet it’s that kind of motivation and power that’ll bring Orzammar to greater heights and out from its overbearing clinginess to traditions, fear of the surface and caste systems.
Well, no.
Behlen is a nasty piece of... nug!
First off, just because something is common, does not make it right or acceptable. Behlen's actions, based on our own moral code, are reprehensible. Killing your kin for power? Yeah, it does not matter how mundane that is in Orzammar, it's still unforgivable.
"Harrowmont put on a good show of the ‘pity-me-old, honorable and morally right’ man."
No, he does not put up a show. He is an honorable man. He is also a traditionalist. He is honest with his intentions and he is no murderer... and he stands with you if you are a Dwarf Noble.
"Yet completely fucks over Orzammar."
That is a matter of perspective.
"On top of that, Bhelen makes a fair point in bringing up the fact that no one truly knows what King Endrin said in his final moments."
Behlen is lying. Endrin did realize that Behlen was a rotten egg and he did not want him on the throne. You can know that by reading the paper on Harrowmont's desk in his quarters. Plus if you are a Noble Dwarf, Gorim gives you a letter from your father, that further proves Harrowmont right.
"Side with Bhelen and he drags Orzammar into a new, modern era"
Right... :) His first action is to send his political enemies on the surface to fight an Archdemon and hopefully die doing so. He is a tyrant, who ends the Assemby soon after he takes the throne. What is wrong about Orzammar can be changed without tyranny.
Behlen is never my choice, unless I play an evil character.
Bhelen reminds me of a man in the history book. Ruthless "liberal-minded" politician. Julius Caesar. Their ruthlessness ended the old ways and the new ways literally brought a better age for their people, but both are hated by the aristocrats. Sadly Bhelen is not as strong in military ability as Caesar.
And the Dwarven civil war gave the feels of the scramble of western europe on the hands of Charlemagne's children. Killing each other to get their father's throne.
There is nothing more important than vengeance. I dare say that i'm even more extreme than Justice ever was.
Helping Harrowmont as a commoner is literally the most pointless thing ever. At least as a Noble it makes some kind of sense if you help Bhelen, so that the Aeducan name remains in power. Even if he did kill your brother and frame you...sometimes the name is more important than the truth especially when it comes to politics and royalty. But as a commoner, you have to be a total snake to help kill your sisters lover, and allow people (your people) to continue starving in Dust Town.
I understand that choices are there for rpg reasons, but it makes zero sense to help Harromont as a commoner.
Wow... she was thoroughly brainwashed wasn't she? She's easy to manipulate and is so oddly happy when the warden sacrifices himself/herself to the archdemon and is up for paragonship instead of being broken over.
Not at all, Bhelen actually helps the Catsless,which is why i always picks him as king.
VenomCortez Play the Dwarven Noble origin story, and you will see Bhelen for what he truly is...
He wants power, nothing more...
uhhoh777
he's a proper dwarf
uhhoh777 What he really is is pretty obvious no matter what origin you play. Still better than Harrowmont.
I know this is pretty outdated, but still. First time I choosen Harrowmont, because of justice/vengeance. It worked out horribly, just as written above. I also went with Caridin, to destroy golem.
In my second playthrough, I read a lot of books, codexes, looked around, searched and other things. Harrowmont is a bad guy. He is the typical Dwarf noble. Corrupt, backstabbing, promises a lot of lies, plotting.. basicly a politician. He ruins multiple businesses, craftsmans, and makes promises which later turn out to be lies, which puts others into trouble. After reading this much of him, I could imagine a lot... but killing Trian doesn't seem to benefit him BUT!
Trian would've been an absolutely bad king. He was hated even amongs the nobles, because dwarfen politics stand from trying to keep tradition/having honor, while trying to ensure that the dwarfs still somehow survive. Which barely works out. But Trian, didn't even tried that. He was stupid. He would've been a tyrant, and destroyed the dwarfs.
So, this is where everything is connected. Bhelen would've taken every power and made changes, which Harrowmoont and others didn't like. (having castless everywhere) However - however... Your character would've been a bad king, for you are the soldier boy, by dwarf traditions. But not as bad as Trian.
So (again) if Harrowmont could've blamed Trian's death on Bhelen, than you would've been King and the political puppet of Harrowmont, while he would've had every power connected and run through himself!
In the end this was a playdown of dwarf politics between Harrowmont and Bhelen.
As in lore, this is the clash of the old&new.
If you choose Bhelen he will make things right. He will assemble good expeditions, take measures, introduces new customs, makes new laws, destroys unfair and outdatted dwarvish traditions. He won't just take back thaigs, a lot! But also ensures that they would not be taken back, which a lot of other kings didn't do. Also opens a full legal trade towards the outside world, and takes their technics, culture, which helps the dwarven kingdom a lot. He will deal with the casteless, starts rehabilating them, work, rebuild.
Bhelen also recaptured old parts of the deep roads/dwarven kingdom, which he made into dwarven "districts" or sth. So he bascily colonized new dwarven cities, and made safe routes in between. While Harrowmont will get poisoned after a 2-3 years, because he is incompetent as king, and clashes with the casteless.
Part of this is from DAO, but also Inquisition. When you go to the deep roads (DAI) you can find a lot of text about what Bhelen did.
Bhelen is a good King. He is my king, I don't care that he is a kinslayer.
That and Harrowmont believes that the Dwarf Commoner should not be born.
5:24 Leske being the meddling dwerven ally we love, voiced long before since morphing into Varric 😆😍😘 And then, he betrays us lol 😂 Not telling us the complete truth kind of like Varric with Cassandra I see ☠️☠️☠️
"Now I can embrace you as a brother"
Bhelen, your idiocy is showing.
TheEtherealAlchemist He meant as the Warden's brother.
Nicholas Johnson Oh yeah, right. I must've been up WAY too late and had a fried brain when I posted that.
The whole thing with Leske broke my fucking heart. I wasn't that surprised it happened, but it still hurt. Like, you escaped prison with me, bro! We did crime together! How could you turn your back on me like that?!
I could only see Bhelen being a good person if it turned out his brother was a complete asshole.
Say the male Aeducan was a ruthless SOAB like Trian, and Bhelen was actually acting out of Orzammar's best interests, despite his particularly ruthless ambitions himself?
To that end, Bhelen kinda reminds me of a dwarven Griffith (from Berserk), if that makes sense. Not necessarily a nice person, but working towards honorable goals.
It's just a shame that the guy we _know_ is benevolent, Lord Harrowmont, turns out to be an inept leader in place of Bhelen...
Harrowmont is a traditionalist that what the nobels represent
As dwarven Noble Aeducan I would love to see my Nephew Endrin fight it out with my Son Trian, the next dwarven Conspiracies are already on their way...
Imagine that kids history; prince to the throne but also nephew of the grey warden. If he was skilled enough, in any faction then he’d probably be a first one to the throne.
Not just any grey warden, the hero of ferelden too! That's a great deal to live up to I think.
yeah right sister.... bhaelen is the real victim here! he loved his brother so much. 😂
Bhelen does love Rica
Goddamn it Leske.
Dwarf commoner was my first playthrough, and when he told me they had taken u shop at my old house I was like " OH HEEEEEEEEELL NO!!!!!" but when I found out what Leske did, I felt genuinely hurt.
And before anyone says it, yes I know it isn't real, I just get invested is all.
Even if you keep the Envil of the Void, Bhelen is still the better option. Yes Bhelen goes a bit crazy, but Branka actually sees the light and stops producing Golems. While with Harrowmount as king, Branka actually starts a war with the rest of Fereldan since she start kidnapping humans and elves.
I think you got your wires crossed a bit here. If you keep the Anvil and Bhelen is made king, he supplies her with volunteers until she refuses to make golems only for him. Bhelen then outlaws golems and Branka shuts herself in Caridin's Workshop.
Seems to me being a Dwarf commoner who supports Bhelen is best, though supporting Behlen over Harromont is always the right choice in my opinion
"The Assembly is no place for a woman"? What were they thinking when they gave him that line? The assembly is full of female representatives, lol. Both genders can hold seats.
Probably meant as “no place for a ‘concubine’ woman” but they did a bad job getting that across
They also say during the provings that women shouldn't try to be warriors
Despite the hallway entrance into the city where they display the statues of their hero's and the first 8 i saw were women
Maybe they are the exception rather than the rule.
maybe he is an asshole, pretty simple
5:23 "well i also didn't expect to see you here varric"
As a dwarf noble this makes me sick, that traitorous bastard framed me for killing my brother (Who was an ass hole granted) and got me kicked out of Orzammar and drove our father to death by depression. I would rather see all of Orzammar burn than him sitting on the throne.
My headcanon is this after Harrowmont fucks everything up I stride into the halls and declare myself king. Those who oppose me are welcome to try and kill me but Sevran, Leliana, and my Dog will be able to take care of most of them, throw in that those who supported Harrowmont will likely side with me and that I am best friends with the King of Ferelden taking the throne won't prove too difficult, after all, I killed the God damn Archdemon I can handle a few dwarfs who don't know what's best for them. I then lead the Dwarfs to take back everything the Dark spawn took. After years of being the greatest king in Orzammar history, I then die of old age in bed with a belly full of wine and a girls mouth around my cock.
Hard to die of old age when you got the blight coursing through your veins.
@@jonathanhamilton6190 Dammit don't ruin this for me
Wait so
How short are dwarven pregnancies
I cannot chose. I started a Dwarf Commoner but I realised that my sister is the concubinie of Prince Bhelen. I should chose Bhelen but Bhelen is evil :(
harrowmont isnt really any better
Leske man. I wish he could of lived! I know he betrayed me but damn i wish you could of taken him to the surface with you! Hes like the loveable dumb lug in every group. haha I kinda wish you could of had a romance with him!
OK, so Ysolda married Bhelen.
You cannot trust people who have despaired at least once. Such was Leske.
Your character looks a lot like Saskia
If harrowmont is king what happens to ricca?
When I played the noble dwarf in DA Origins on the PS3 and returned to Ozarmar, everyone acted like they did not knw me, They acted like when my human character entered and related with everyone. WTF!!
Y din’t my storyline not act like the one above??
Rica: "I know you are a Warden now, but to me youre always will be that little girl toddling around and pulling up on door handles"
Bitch please, i slay dozens of darkspawn for breakfest every morning. xD
hmmm what if the casteless all moved to the service? they'd have better lives and they're not contributing to the economy in any way except crime. are they the only classes with issues or do all the lower classes want to rebel? i wish we got more insight to the castes and numbers and things, but if the top is warrior caste then i can't see the poor having much of a chance.
The warrior caste forbids casteless from serving in the military, as they don't want to be associated with such people while they serve
im pretty sure her sister is in the wrong but I cant remember
Well, she supports Behlen because of her child, so basically yes, she is in the wrong... but not.
then it doesn't really matter she is in the wrong with or without child XD there is still a right and a wrong
I played the noble before the commoner... So it break my heart to know the truth and betray my sister for my noble.
What is the armor and weapons that Leske is wearing and how did you change it?
What Armor is Leske wearing, it is awesome!
Choosing a king in Orzammar is political mess. There is no right choice. Choosing between a toad and a viper. I think it's better to choose the one who is mentioned more in the sequels. And this is Belen because he is making connections with the surface.
Which morph mod is that one for Morrigan, I was never able to find it ):
It's so hard to go against Bhelen when you're dwarf commoner. It's like slighting your own sister. I still hate the mother thou lol
Dwarf commoner I always side with bhelen he makes rica happy and the casteless are people dwarf noble I side with Harrowmont been frame me for a murder I me sentence to die
dwarf noble and Always bhelen gotta keep mah blood on that there throne
Leske R.I.P.
My character is a dwarf Nobel exiled for a false crime bloody dwarf politics I should be queen of orzimar!
How does our sister react when we choose Harrowmont? :D
What are your mods that you used?? Thanks!
I it somehow possible to convince Leske to stay with my common dwarf? I really tried the nice way but it ends that i have to kill Jarvia and him
Unfortunately, no. You'll always have to end up killing Leske. It's a shame there's no option to save him.
@@fawnieee Aw, to bad. Well, he allied himself with Jarvia, so he knew he had to fight his former best friend sooner or later. At least Rica is save
I really liked Leske... too bad for him. Old friends should know not to mess with the Warden.
Sadly the only time when Leske can be alive is when you are NOT a Dwarven Commoner.
what mod are you using for the armors?
Since my 1st Playthru was as a Dwarf Noble i have trouble siding with Bhelen. Harrowmont may be the not best choice at least hes Honorable. And according to DAI Decent DLC he's still alive.
EFF MORRIGAN
What's the armor mod? It's a pity this guy never replies to the comments in his videos cause I want to know the mod he uses for Leliana too.
Does anyone know what game is on? Like PS4, Xbox or PC?
Should be on all of those platforms.
it's only on Xbox 360, PS3 and PC, don't think it's backwards-compatible yet!
I know the X1 is backwards compatible with digitally downloaded 360 games, but won't take the discs (at least for my friends' console).
I love seeing how well people can justify Bhelen as a better king based on in a single paragraph at the end of the game lmao
Compared to Harrowmont, yes he is.
@@Palpad100 it depends. If you side with Branka with the anvil Harrowmant gets enough power to maintain his thrown and create peace. The casteless still suffer but there are no assassinations and executions that you'd get with Bhelen
I don’t understand why leske is her top man in this origin, but a prisoner in every other origin. It doesn’t really make sense considering every origin happened, it’s just that the arrival of Duncan changes the fate because he saves or helps the warden in every origin in some way. (Saves Mahariel, gives alienage elf weapons to save spouse, deep roads expedition in noble origin, rescues cousland, etc) , but the commoner origin shouldn’t really change because all Duncan did was stop you, not leske, from being arrested by conscripting you. I’m assuming Berat was still murdered by you and leske, Leske AND the commoner were arrested, I don’t see why Leske wouldn’t try and persuade Jarvia to become the right hand man again. Unless the proving in Duncan’s honor somehow changed the timeline.
The origins all happen, yes, but they change if you don't play them. Upon meeting Leske in the Carta prison as any non Dwarf Commoner origin, he'll say his friend stopped eating and died. That friend is the Dwarf Commoner.
The Commoner is the one who gets them out of prison in their origin. So, because the Commoner died, Leske never got out of jail.
But how did Beraht die?
@@nicholasemjohnson47
Killed for match-fixing. The casteless-dwarf-on-a-proving is still a thing.
BRONKA?!
Whoa I never noticed that the chick that your guy sleeps with if you go Dwarf Noble, is the dwarf commoners sister lmfaoooooo
Not really, in both dwarf origins Rica is Bhelen's woman. You can even find a letter from her in Bhelen room as a dwarf noble.
Her naivety is just disgustingly annoying.
The commoner mother is one of the worst characters, I am always disgusted at her.
@Ethan Schultz I agree. My dad was much the same. There is never an excuse to be so disgusting and belligerent to your children. She doesn't even change afterwards.
What is it with stupid dwarven women in the Dragon Age games...
Wtf is that here
Ive always thought Dwarves were the Weakest and Ugliest. Its fact