Once Perturabo left the siege of Terra it was basically GG’s for the Traitor Legions, he was hard carrying the others who were heavily succumbing to the side effects of Chaos.
i read that on mortis and i got to say his reasons for leaving were baddly developed. The whole thing started when horus decided to attack the wall with all their titan might and perturabo was againts it because he believed there was no way they could penetrate win that fight but horus forced him to do so. But the thing is horus was right, the plan did actualy worked so it seems perturabo left for nothing. It would have been beter if the iron warriors had participated on the battle, suffered terrible casuaties and then perturabo had decided to leave at the end of the book instead of the beguining. It felt rushed to me. Besides there was no reaction from dorn at all about perturabo leaving. This whole thing was a fight between dorn and perturabo and when he leaves he is not even acknowledged by the loyalists.
That was the cool thing about perty. He was the traitor who wasn't absolutely fucked in the head with chaos. But then GW went and had him become a daemon prince for some damn reason.
The more they dedicate themselves to Chaos the more chaotic they became. It's tough to organize people who are being corrupted to disorder. So although you have a lot of power to bring to bear they keep wandering off to do their own chaotic thing. Like the Emperor's Children running around trying to make weird drugs out of people rather than attacking the loyal forces.
Aye. If half the Traitor Legions that attacked Terra during the climax of the Heresy weren't on the Chaos Coolaid - like how the Iron Warriors were basically carrying the siege since they were still sober and not running around doing their own thing like the Emperor's Children and World Eaters - chances are the traitors would've won if it weren't for them.
Tzeentch using Magnus to break the Webway was definitely the biggest move the traitors ever made. Imagine the siege, but with 9000 more Custodes, the Emperor and Vulkan defending the walls, plus the mechanicus.
i sweat if that happened like 6 custodes wouldve shit stomped horus plus magnus would still be loyal so he could sit on the golden throne while the empeor shit mixed the entire chaos force
@@bestnameever1850 the Emperor at fully power would have been much more able to keep the daemons at bay too! That would leave loyal Magnus to throw mind bullets at my Horus's fleet. Without daemons the Phalanx could've fought in the solar war, too.
Dude Chaos was not at full strength either...more than half the Titan legions went to Horus. Titans level cities, 9000 Custodes really not going to do much
@@Internetbutthurt one custodes could massacre a whole city's population efficiently and with less fuel wasted. And I mean the whole city is filled with battle-ready berserkers
When you read Mortis, you see that Perturabo, despite having his station as essentially the Grand Commander of the siege about to be usurped by Mortarion, didn't leave out of underappreciation. You know this because he already saw it coming - the influence of chaos was corrupting his ability to control the siege. He'd given up well before then, just sort of sitting there, letting the data wash over him - as Forrix put it - resigned already to not be in control anymore. In that situation, he knew that it would be sensible to let someone who could direct the warp-tides flow. That it even had to be done like this is what pissed him off. Across several authors we see Perturabo join Horus because he sees him as 'honourable', and that he trusts Horus, and keeps to him because of such honour - it's kind of his anchor to motivate his treachery. That anchor crumbles when Horus elects to employ, to Perturabo, a wholly dishonourable manner of warfare, by way of demons and the mutilations of the body and mind that are the currently chaos-dedicated legions. That shit genuinely inspires anger in him. When it becomes the crux of the siege, to Perturabo - and also Abaddon really - that is when Horus took away what victory meant for him. Not humbling Dorn, not "being appreciated", not killing the emperor, but having someone on the throne leading humanity who was honourable. He knows that couldn't be him, despite his ego from shittier authors: we see that in his reaving of Olympia, and the fallout on his own soul from that. At that moment to him, no being in the whole universe was fit to rule humanity. I really hope that they explore the ramifications of that fact for him in the scouring; maybe it could give us some nice wholesomeness before he turns demonic, kinda like what McNeill did for Magnus.
@@mkno2799 Competence notwithstanding, you do see Abaddon in Saturnine express his frustrations along the same lines as Perturabo. At first it seems like a ploy to manipulate Perturabo to employ the Saturnine gambit - Perturabo gets pissed off for that reason - but you see throughout the novel, especially when he has his giant combat scene in the thick of it, how much sorrow he feels having had his honour as a warrior stripped away, and after feeling likewise at Perturabo for having manipulated _him_ to employ the Saturnine gambit, he feels gratitude to him, for letting him die as a warrior, instead of living with the victory they might have attained, but not _won._
@@mkno2799 I think it depends on when he's been written by Dan Abnett vs. when he's written by someone who isn't... Dan Abnett. I came at Warhammer 40k/30k initially from Black Libraries Horus Heresy, on the recommendation from the late TotalBiscuit - my first books were Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer, so I have a fairly irrational love for the Iron Warriors and World Eaters, but to me they embody the distilled character of the setting, sans the religious zeal: the tragedy, the horror of the meat-grinder, the expedience of human life and that resignation to endless war, but under the purview of _real_ characters.
As everyone said, chaos is simply the antithesis of order (or law in the really old WH lingo) and the more one dedicates himself to chaos, the more erratic his behaviour becomes. Once upon a time it was stated pretty clearly that chaos space marines are individually more powerful than their loyalist counterparts but they are way worse at working together and following any kind of shared strategy for more than 5 minutes straight. It takes exceptional circumstances and exceedingly powerful leaders to make several warbands work together and even then their alliance is tenuous at best.
Well stated except for not going far enough, getting one chapter of Chaos Marines to cooperate with itself must require herculean effort and border on impossible, getting more than one of them to cooperate with each other would require divine intervention at the minimum.
@@From-North-Jersey with the introduction of Chaos undivided (which happened in WHFB first and was then ported to 40K) some 20 years ago GW actually provided a way for the warbands to work together: it’s the rarest of events, when the 4 great powers set their differences aside and align. It never lasts long but the damage when it happens is incommensurable
thats why traitors loose, even it pains me agreeing that the nerds are individualy stronger than my wolves. It still makes me happy to know that the wolves can overcome any hardship, even stronger like CSM
The problem of Chaos has always been Chaos itself. For all the talk of Chaos Undivided Chaos has always been divided. The only reason that Chaos even stands a chance against the Imperium has been that the Imperium had so many fronts and fish to fry. Without the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids, Tau and Necrons to contend with the Imperium could have steamrolled any Black Crusade coming out of the Eye.
Kharn has been butchering the Imperium for 10k years without dying once The guy has slaughtered entire Chapters, Regiments, Sisterhoods, Knightholds and Mechanicus Freak Shows
Chaos is the byproduct of the War in Heaven where the Realm of Souls got so corrupted it turned into the Warp - a hotbed for the manifestation of Chaos there after all. And it made the Horus Heresy barely a blip on the radar.
@@christiandauz3742 Draigo has been butchering Chaos for 10k years without dying once. The guy has slaughtered warbands, cults, demon planets, greater demons, demon primarchs, and dark mechanicus freak shows
@@christiandauz3742 Yeah, I know. Draigo has slaughetered entire Demon Worlds my guy. Dude shattered Tzeentch's impossible maze, fought his way to Khorne's throne, burned down one of Nurgle's Garden's, and spited Slaanesh to her face. Kharn is one of the strongest space marines. He's nowhere close to THE strongest tho.
Perturabo: okay guys good job taking out the enemy's allies, I'm at the objective with 99% capture meter, let's finish this! Fulgrim, jungling for civilians to turn into space cocaine: Magnus respawning while his sons keep getting Thanos'd in front of him: Kurze just AFK: Alpharius and Omegon trolling the entire time: Angron getting tilted 24/7: Lorgar getting kicked for toxicity: Horus and Mortarion actually helping, but Horus drank chaos god bath water and Morty has space ligma: Perturabo: you know what, f*** this [FistFucker69 has left the match]
Pretty much. Magnus is spectator, Alpharius and Omegon dicking around the map, Angron is playing DOOM, Fulgrim is busy jacking off, Kurze is suffering from depression, Lorgar just spams text so is in time out. Horus splits up and gets killed, Mortation is playing with flue and cant play no more. Perturabo just tired of carrying the team after no one is putting effort.
My guy forgot to say that Alpha legion attacked Terra prematurely in order to show Dorn and his boys the weaknesses of Terra’s defence. Hydra Dominatus
@@Internetbutthurt That's like saying "Vegeta is overrated because Frieza killed him." The most powerful beings fighting still leave winners & losers, it can't all be contrived stalemates.
Perturabo is pretty much the soul reason the traitors ended up loosing thanks in no small part to Fulgrim trying to murder him. If Perty and the Iron warriors had stayed not only would he have probably broken through Dorns defenses (since he already was) but to make it even worse Perturabo was guarding the Astronomicon and his legion leaving directly caused it to be taken long enough to get the signal out the alerted the other loyalists that Terra hadn’t fallen
@@rexlumontad5644 Perty imo, is the MVP military primarch in terms of pure tactics. But he lacks social skills (including leadership) that are required for a truly great general.
@@darko-man8549 True. He really sucks at family relationships. Damnekos and his daughter Calliphone tried to bond with Perturabo and give him family and love but he rejected them all.
I completely disagree. Perturabo leaving is not what caused the traitor to fail, the entire solar war and seige war fought with both sides knowing that there was a time limit, the Ultramarines, Dark Angles, and Space Wolves were all on the way to Terra, as soon as they arrived the fight would be over. Perturabo knew this, and towards the end of the siege he saw the writing on the wall, he could not break into the Palace before the Loyalist reinforcements arrived. The whole reason he sided with Horus was gone, he no longer felt obligated to stay and wait to killed when the Loyalists arrived, so he left. The Iron Warriors were not in charge of guarding the Astronomicon, you don't put siege specialists on guard duty during a siege. And it wouldn't have mattered anyway since an advance force of a few hundred Dark Angles broke through the Orbital Blockade of Terra and dropped onto the Astronomicon along with 2 Custodes. The astronomicon was not the signal that told the loyalists terra hadn't fallen. The Ultramarines and Dark Angles and Space Wolves all knew that is where they were needed and where they would find the traitors.
You have also forgotten that chaos wanted Horus to lose. The Gods got exactly what they wanted. A crippled Imperium with no rational leadership. And the worship of millions because of an unnecessarily cruel government.
You give Chaos too much credit. The only one that would even bother to think ahead and plan is Tzeentch. Nurgle doesn't give a shit, he's happy as he is no matter how dead the galaxy is. Slaanesh would've been content with fucking themselves with the souls collected floating around in the warp, not thinking about the consequences of their actions. Khorne is fucking crazy, all he wants is blood to be spilled and rage to be rampant. The only one that is capable of thinking long-term is Tzeentch.
@@starhammer5247 the chaos God are in many ways way smarter than any mortal being. They live in a realm that has no time. You can also see, in plague war, that Nurgle for example can plan ahead. He is all of the demons he created after all. Yes Tzeentch might be the smartest. But from an insect perspective it's like seeing Einstein and a normal guy, they can't comprehend the difference between their intelligence because their intellect is so much smaller.
@@meisterhyperion207 yeah even korne the often most straightforward god knows that blindly charging into the enemy isn't always best for bloodshed. The gods want to feed at the most energy and so having a little patience for a better feeding ground to form makes sense.
They genuinely wanted the emperor dead tho . They probably doubted Chaos Horus could permakill him so they settled with crippling him. Plus him watching the atheistic imperium he had built burn as a god likely had tzeentch rolling and choking in laughter for a millenia or two
Is it possible that the Emperor chose Rogal to defend Terra because the warp bends around him, thus the chaos gods couldn't manipulate events around him as well?
Malcador stated he and the Emperor didn't tell Dorn and the others about the Warp/Chaos because the knowledge would tempt and corrupt them Mal believes all the Primarchs can be corrupted
Emperor just told Rogal to FORTIFY the heck out of the Imperial Palace while He and his Custodes and Sisters of Silence deal with their Imperial Webway problem Magnus caused.
No, in Mortis and Warhawk even Dorn is affected by the plagues from Mortarion causing everyone to despair. The whole "Dorn cancels warp" thing is mostly fan lore, in Solar War daemons manifest all over Phalanx and fight Dorn without dissolving or being hurt by being near him.
It's interesting to note how Majorkill said if Horus had micromanaged the other legions but keep in mind it was Horus who also was fighting to keep control of his own chaos, in a way he had his own golden throne and it ended up being the end of him and the rebellion.
I feel like the efforts of Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists deserves a much more significant spot light when dealing with this subject. I think they were one of the biggest factors in Horus' defeats through Dorn's God like management of the loyalist war effort and the legendary effort the Imperial Fists put up at Phall, the entirety of the Sol system, void battles and of course in the siege itself.
@@thathandsomedevil0828 They did and they deserve alot of credit for it, Sanguinius' dual with Kha'band'ha was legendary and his heroic sacrifice agaisnt Horus was awe inspiring and iconic. But they DO get alot of credit for it. Where as Dorn and the Imperial Fists were the backbone and the brain behind the loyalist war effort. They had an absolute herculean task agaisnt overwhelming odds and they rose to the challenge and I feel like that just doesn't get as much attention and praise as it deserves. Other legions helped, no doubt about that, the White Scars were very important. Those that couldn't help did all they could, heroically and valiantly, however, it was Dorn and the Imperial Fists that saved the Imperium.
Perturabo and Mortarion carried the whole siege on their backs. About Fulgrim, even if his Legion was useless, he manage to kill another Primarch one on one, that evens things out. Also, the Word Bearers were not (only) more f***ed up, they were designed to b extra loyal to their Primarch.
Who knew running a rag tag group of pure crazy wouldn't have the best results. It's funny too because Horus lead literal demon hordes for countless centuries in the warp... and STILL couldn't control Fulgrim or Angron worth a darn
And at least they losed because of there big ego and theyre childish behaviour . I mean at least nobody wanted to say perti that he makes a good job or at least that he is a "good Boy" haha
There is the fact that most Primarchs that sided with him where not the most tactically minded compared to the Loyalists. Also attacking a fortified fortress as the attacker did not do the traitors any favors. If the Emperor ignored Horus' taunt the traitors would have lost alot more given loyalist reinforcements are OTW.
Emperor was betting on Horus to leave his Gloriania ship open so that He and his strike force go there and take down Horus. Of course we know how it went with Sanguinius dead and Big E interred on the Golden Throne.
Majorkill you should make a video on the what the roles of each primarch would be if they all stayed loyal I know other youtubers have made videos on this topic but your opinions could be wildeldly different from theirs I would love to see it
@@antoinecyr2833 They would probably secretly support Choas despite being loyal in an intricate plan to improve the Imperium through nonsense no one can understand
One little nitpick, I could be completely wrong though but I thought the Iron Hands were not reduced 95% at isvann V. Ferrus took his most elite troops and fastest ships with him. Most were left behind, only about 40-60% of the iron hands were on Istvann which is why the shattered legions numbers comprised mostly of Iron Hands following the massacre. The shattered legions slowed the traitors down quite a bit and were actually quite essential in the end seeing as it was all about time. Great Video though!
Also problematic for Horus was that Corvus and the guard kind of recovered half their strength and led an Guerilla warfare behind his lines that drew conquered planets to Rebell against Horus and cost him resources and power. That’s also a reason why he rushed terra, dude couldn’t fight a war of attrition. Horus is pretty much like the csa. Aaah and then there is molech the planet Horus got super saiyajin and set his life to a deadline xD
And not to forget that without some Alpha Legion fuckery, Horus wouldn't have gotten an outdated map and Dorn wouldn't have upgraded the defenses of Terra and the imperial palace.
Chaos being Chaos couldn't have been avoided, but Horus was in a bad spot on the final push to Terra. He had to attack because he knew the ultramarines were on there way, and he really didn't want them coming after the traitors. He mentioned several times how them entering the war would have been really bad news. So he didn't have a ton of time to consolidate. It's never described how much the lion messing up homeworlds hurt the chaos effort, or the iron hands attacking their fleet.
I thought it was alpharius who was the loyal one, as revealed by the new book, he grew up on terra and only took the name omegon when they found his twin, and he took his own name back after omegon death.
Reminder at 6:30 that the Battle of Prospero was an even bigger advantage- an entire legion of loyal marines and their auxilieries flattened with the survivors turned to Chaos, a second loyal legion mauled. The biggest own goal in the whole Heresy.
Little comment about the claim around 2:30 about the AP bolted rounds. According to the Horus heresy books, there were solid shot rounds for the boters before Horus was injured. In fact, there was a specific conversation that loken had about wether to use the anti armor or anti personnel rounds before the battle where Horus was wounded
What were the Eldar doing during all this? Did they just sit back and go WTF? And what if they (or just some of them) decided to get involved on the side of the Loyalist? In fact, why didn't they? They knew the risk of Chaos, and having the Imperium fall completely to Chaos would not be good for the Eldar.
They did try to kill a child, Angron. At the time of the heresy I also believe that the Eldar along with other races had been getting stomped by the legions. Even if they weren’t such low numbers I don’t really know the actual impact an Eldari force would do against rioded up astartes with a huge fleet.
the elder tried to kill angron before he turned into a deamon prince, they failed miserably. They also tried to kill lorgar, failed again. And also wasted like tons of troops againts a joint force of the iron hands, death guard and salamanders just to try to get to ferrus manus and warn him about the fall of fulgrim in the most idiotic way possible. They also were involved in a shadow war againts the cabal. a group of xenos similar to a federation that wanted to manipulate the result of the war by convincing alpharius to do their biding (until he betrayed them and decided to do what he wanted) the eldar eliminated the cabal and let their colaborators (john gramaticus) to try to change the result of the war thinking that only humanity could save the galaxy from chaos.
Hey majorkill I just wanted to let you know that I’m a super new fan to warhammer but your channel attracted me to the entirety of the lore! I even bought myself copies of dawn of war 1 and 2 and my favorite faction became the tyrannids, I just love the idea of strong and crazy bugs just doing what bugs do! Thank you for your funny commentary and entertaining videos man!
As a big custodes stan, I like to imagine a demon fighting tooth and nail to take the walls of the Imperial Palace against the Astartes defenders then wondering what that gold thing in the distance coming really really fast is and why the doom 2016 soundtrack getting louder and louder.
video idea : lore on the imperial navy, what is heresy, ecclesiarchy, the ages of the imperium (age of rebirth, forging, nova terra, age of redemption, the waning, time of ending, age of the dark imperium/era indomitus), the imperial army (precursor to the imperial guard and navy) tau sphere of expansion, eldar paths, and every single type of squigs
This was a fuggin' excellent video and basically a very compressed and accurate lol abridged version of the Horus Heresey books I've been listening too. Legend. Respect for continually putting out quality content. GG fam.
The best visualisation of this issue is the battle of Thermopylae where the disorderly Persians were crushed before the tactically sound and organised Spartans. Organisation allows your army's strengths to be best employed and your weaknesses best hidden. This is why the loyalist primarchs and their legions are more powerful than the traitor ones.
The loyalists weren't at full strength cuz the primarchs said themselves that a good chunk of them are scattered around on different planets. The ones that were too far from terra were told to stay there just in case. As for the traitors, the demons and mass suicides by the guard I think made up for the lack of space marines. Plus the traitors still had the mortis titans.
Pretty sure the Titan forces were close to equal in strength especialy when you consider Terra was defended by the Legio of Psyker titans that are almost immortal.
@@MrFallenone all the titans got killed in warhawk except the traitor ones. The pskyer ones died too. Got possessed I think. There might be some back up ones but idk. Seems bleak
@@MrFallenone The traitors assaulted the Inner Palace and breached the Mercury wall using the entire intact and warp empowered legio Mortis, over 100 reanimated demon titans from the battlefields of the "titan death", and a group of newly deployed Warmaster titans. Against them was legio Ignatum, a few legio Gryphonicus titans (main strength deployed elsewhere) and the remnants of the shatter loyalist titan legions that survived the "titan death". The Psy titans, if I remember the lore, were only about 30 in number and I not sure they deployed their full strength at the Palace. Warp fuckery played a big part too, disrupting the wall guns efficiency but in terms of titans, the loyalist were out numbered and out gunned.
Skaven in Fantasy are a great example of the strength and weaknesses of Chaos. You have the strongest power in theory and could easily win, but in reality the nature of Chaos is sabotaging itself. Chaos is it's own worst enemy.
Another advantage the traitors had at the start of the siege is that legions such as the sons of Horus massively grew their own size with mediocre and quickly made marines, so the sons of Horus were at half strength, but their numbers were way higher than what they were at Istvaan III
I honestly always thought one of the biggest subtle advantages that the loyalists had was just Chaos turning the traitors’ brains to Swiss cheese. Sure, it’s a power boost, but it also erodes the hell out of higher thought processes over time - with enough exposure you can become a sort of “high functioning chaos addict,” but that takes a very long time and most of the legions were very new to the whole thing. They got drunk off of their new gods’ influence and couldn’t control their impulses. Fulgrim being the most obvious example.
You forgot to mention that Horus was also no longer playing a full deck, he was shifting between being himself and being a slave possessed by the Chaos gods, to the point that Abaddon started showing contempt for him.
When attacking a defensive position you need at least a 5-1 advantage in resources......to attack Dorns best you would need 10-1 advantage....... Terra was an unimaginable killing ground and the traitors had the entirity of space as somewhere to 'watch our back.....................head......side........balls.......you get the picture.
You give Chaos too much credit. The only one that would even bother to think ahead and plan is Tzeentch. Nurgle doesn't give a shit, he's happy as he is no matter how dead the galaxy is. Slaanesh would've been content with fucking themselves with the souls collected floating around in the warp, not thinking about the consequences of their actions. Khorne is fucking crazy, all he wants is blood to be spilled and rage to be rampant. The only one that is capable of thinking long-term is Tzeentch.
@@Asraeks That’s exactly on point 👍 Combined with how weakened they are in numbers and supplies following the next 10k years, it’s clear to see how badly they lost the Heresy.
What I love about the Siege of terra is the fact that EVERYONE was there All the Space Marines Almost all of the Custodes (I think) All of the Guardsman All of the Inquisition And the sheer scale of it is just bonkers, seeing the art posted by Games workshop with Guardsmen holding the line with Iron Fists backing them up They really outdid themselves on that one
I always thought it was because the choas gods dont want to win. The longer a war rages, the better for them. Can you imagine what the god of killing would do if his side actually wiped out the imperiam?
ROFL "Anything that can fumble such a big lead doesn't deserve to be taken seriously." Gives me more respect for Abaddon keeping things going for so long... what if Chaos (or half of it) didn't actually WANT Horus to win? Big E ended up as a super lich, the traitor marines had to run off to live in the warp where they continue to steal people, and the Imperium has slid slowly towards Chaos ever since... just sayin' u can fleece a sheep many times but only skin it once. Tzeench and Nurgle get it;)
I think Alpharius is still the loyalist. If I remember correctly from the Alpharius novel he and Omegon switch spots and he allowed Omegon to run the legion
By the Emperor, such HERESY!! Listen sir. With Respect. The Traitors disadvange is that they were traitors, they never stood a chance being build on their lack of loyalty. The Alpha Legion was a major part of that. Angron really just wanted to kill, Perturabo was busy checking to see if people were noticing he was crying a lot, the cyclops was conflicted and good in the end kinda, Fulgrim just wanted people to smooch his pickle, Horus himself was a badass but not enough and really, he is all he had. Chaos never stood a chance because Chaos is just that. "chaos indeed."
So basically the loyalists opperated like a sensible military and the traitors were lead by my last 5 league of legends lobbies. One running it down, one rage quitting half way through, one afk most of the game, one Leroy Jenkinsing it and getting clapped repeatedly.
I think I finally understand what chaos really is in the context of 40k. Like chaos in it's normal state is like a pin ball going all haywire inside of the pin ball machine hitting and colliding with the walls and maze like obstructions inside of said machine making all kind of noises and a light show. It's entertaining and interesting to watch. Another analogy could be diffusion of potassium permanganate in water or bromine in air. On the molecular and atomic level in the case of bromine all the molecules and atoms are moving haphazardly and spontaneous in the fluid medium in order to take up space. Even Radioactive decay is a practical use of chaos due to definition of what half life is and how nuclear fission works. Now in 40k, chaos is just a bastardization of the very concept of chaos itself. It's like if a group of hooligans go into said bar just to destroy the pin ball machine, then beat as much people in the bar and if they fail summon some demons to slaughter the entire town for no reason. Then the imperium is a "solution" to chaos but it's akin to sawing of your arms after a jellyfish sting instead of applying anti venom to the wound or any proper medical treatment besides sawing going vrrrr.
Before I watch the video: I believe the reason why is because the Chaos Gods did not want to win the war to begin with, that is why the Traitor Legions did not. In truth, the Chaos Gods wanted to knock the Emperor down a peg so that they could enact their own plans later on. They are all playing a far bigger game than most people realize. It is also no secret that the Chaos Gods often band together if one of them starts getting too powerful. This could very well be the case with the Emperor and Chaos Undivided, they did all this just to make sure that the Emperor's plans fail and their plans culminate. However, for their plans to be enacted properly, they could not have won the war. They most likely saw that this current future of 40K is far and away better than just outright killing the Emperor and having their forces invaded practically uninterrupted. Khorne needs war, so he fought for a future where there is only war. Slaanesh needs excess pleasure and pain, the 40K setting has a lot of the second option. Nurgle needs death and disease, the hive cities of 40K fester with that. Tzeench needs schemes, changes, and plans, 40K has a lot of that. All of them benefitted from not outright killing the Emperor and winning the war. It also does not help that Chaos makes things hard to coordinate. Though, I also believe the moment the Traitor Legions within the Eye of Terror stop being useful is the moment they get expunged from it permanently. They are pawns like their primarchs, nothing more than that.
You know, I reread that passage about Perturabo rage-quitting a number of times. It's amusing to say that no one appreciated him, but I think there was a bigger reason. The Iron Warriors were reassigned to other areas in the siege and split among several forward positions. Horus was basically going to use the IW as cannon fodder AGAIN, and in a far worse way. They already had to sacrifice a ton of their legion strength to escape the war with the Ultramarines, then again to confront the World Eaters on Deluge. Perturabo was refusing to make his legion cover the advance of the other Traitors, which was their only reward for their unflinching obedience. Horus had promised that the IW would no longer be forced into the bloodiest actions, like they were under the Imperium. But clearly the opposite was true, and Horus was going to send them all to their deaths. The 8th edition codex says that the IW still regard Perturabo as having saved them from horrible sacrifices, under both the Emperor and Horus, and there's pretty good evidence that this was in fact true, at least in some ways.
So Majorkill. Do you have any plans in the future for videos on the other two chaos champions you haven't talked about, Typhus and Ahriman? I think Typhus could have a video on how unlikable he is as a character. Meanwhile, Ahriman could have his own video on either how powerful or misunderstood he is. Just spitballing of course.
I would love a video about Typhus. I always saw him as being a more complex and interesting version of the armless failure. Yes his unlikeable and yes his a Saturday morning cartoon villain. But once you read lore about the death guard, the Horus Heresy and his relationship with Morty. You can't help but "get" him.
9:50 you say the White Scars were at maximum strength yet in Path of Heaven it states the gruelling campaigns they endured over several years fighting against the traitor legions before they managed to get to Terra so their numbers had been reduced quite a lot
I’ve been a die hard imperial guard player since 4th edition actually but I was given my brothers death guard models and it’s been fun painting and playing as them
Honestly there’s a lot of “Convenient” timing that worked against the forces of Chaos, and a lot of plot armor going to the Loyalist that made the whole Heresy look like Super Bowl 51 where Chaos happened to be the ATL Falcons.
Yeah, I think the real reason the Horus Heresy failed would be more accurately summed up: "Things looked great for the heresy...until they fucking didn't! The setting needed them to lose, the end."
When I read about the Heresy for the 1st time, it reminds me the Great War on Warcraft 1 & 2. The Horde was about to invade and win the war, a clan leave the field and instead crush the humies, who are outnumbered and go after the traitors, they take half their army to chase the quitters, giving time to the Alliance to prepare an army and atack the guys, giving the humies a big, costly win. It's funny that the Chaos lost the Heresy for their own mistakes, like they have to rush the win or the very late game will be a win to the Imperium. In the end, that happens and now they have Abbadon as their new warmaster, doing almost the same shit that make then lost the heresy.
What if? _Video idea_ *What if the traitors won?* What would the Imperium look like under Chaos? And how would it affect the rest of the Galaxy? The Eldar may be in trouble as Humanity would be all out to get them, not just being on again off again. And then there's the Tau. A Chaos Imperium would be a issue for most of the Xenos.
Such thing as a Chaos Imperium would not exist even if Horus had won, they were already at each other's throat before even winning the war, splitting the spoils would had shattered whatever unity they had left and another civil war would had ensued, the material world would become just another map for the Chaos gods to play their eternal Game, maybe they would unite for a while from time to time to fight Tyranids or Tau if they ever become big enough threats and then come back to fight among themselves.
I don't see how your description differs much from the regular Imperium. They're already murderously xenophobic, that just sounds like more of the same. I think it would implode, with some claiming to be the Imperium, despite fighting each other, and others either claiming to be new states or just becoming roving bands of terror.
These may be stupid questions but the Horus Heresy books are almost impossible to get in my country: 1 at one point was it referred to as the Heresy? Since Big E didn't like religious stuff. And 2 was Horus aware that the Custodes were busy or was he just lucky there?
I've read all but 2 of the Heresy books, all the Siege of Terra books and a couple of the Primarchs books and my answer to question 1.) would be No. Throughout the Siege of Terra books the religious elements of the Imperium have their origin story but it wasn't until the Emperor was permanently on the golden throne that he became an official religious icon, it's referred to as a Heresy in 40k because by then the Emperor is considered a God without question. Question 2 is trickier as the book Master of Mankind does show traitor astartes attacking in the tunnels alongside the daemons, with titan support. Whether this was fully known about by Horus I'm not sure.
Rogal Dorn couldn't even find out a Dark Eldar spyware that was planted within the framework of a shack the Imperium would call a palace. SLAVESAYSWHAT?!
@@christiandauz3742 Tell that to horus who was blasted to oblivion as the chaos gods rage quit on him after they realised he wasnt as powerful as they hoped he would be .The whole chaos wanted to win trope is pretty weak and has no backing in terms of the lore as far as I know a
I feel like horus pulled the short stick on primarchs If they had thrown Leman Russ or Ferrus Manus to the Traitors the heresy would have been much closer
In his few moments of sanity during the Heresy he comments on this and says the same thing. Had he had even just Ferrus Manus, he would have won the Heresy, as unlike Perturabo, Ferrus would not break or give up ever. Heck in many of the fan creations of alternate Heresies, the traitors do many times better. The Dornian Heresy ends like the Horus Heresy, but the Loyalists lose more Primarchs and the Traitors lose almost no one. The Roboutian Heresy is similar, but while the number of Primarchs remains even, Guillimans methods leave the Imperium even more weakened and devastated than the Horus or Dornian Heresies, even if it still fails in the end.
Here's the thing....you cannot judge Chaos by the standards of the Empire with regards to goal achievement. Chaos won because the Empire was put on a shaky path for the future without the Empire having the Emperor. Horus? You think 'care' was a part of the relationship between the Chaos Gods and Horus? Abbadon...got his ass kicked attacking Cadia right? Accomplished the mission...ass kicked...much loss...Chaos doesn't care. As long as shit is going sideways and the stress is ramping up in the realms of non-Chaos...Chaos happy. Oh no...they lost lots of Chaos marines...lots of demons banished...no fucks given. Materials and resources are limited...either by volume, or logistics, or time...I don't think that's an issue in the Warp. If you want to know who ultimately wins...it's Titsnitch...as long as things keep rolling along, and there are 'events' then he gains...it may be that he actually empowered the early Big E just to make sure shit got stirred up before Nurg's killed everyone with disease, or Kron ran out of skulls to take.
Hey Majorkill, love the vids! Now this is my opinion: the Chaos Space Marines lost the Horus Heresy, but Chaos itself did not. Essentially: a tactical loss for Chaos, but a strategic victory for Chaos.
Also, The siege of terra, its terra. The low ranking pdf guardsman is probably Veteran grade soldiers and There must have been waves of imperial heavy armour.
GW writers be like: The Tyranids: A terrifying innumerable force of pure hunger who has the galaxy surrounded who rapidly adapts and evolves in every fight to become more efficient killing machines and can shut down chaos with their shadow in the warp. The Necrons: Ancient immortal androids who killed the creator race and enslaved their own gods with technology so advanced it can easily shut down chaos. The Tau: A young race that has become a technologically advanced space empire so incredibly quickly that if left unchecked will rule the galaxy and is nearly immune to chaos. The Orks: The most numerous race in the galaxy who become stronger and more numerous the more you fight them, who's psychic power allows them to make any weapon and tool from use junk and grows with their numbers and is immune to chaos. Chaos: Despite the fact that their inherently disorganized, constantly infighting, under equipped compered to their imperial counterparts, and their corruptive influence is really only effective against humans and eldar, they are the greatest threat to the galaxy because ...
Do you not think that if the Emperor had been killed and Horus survived the traitors may have been less threatened by the reinforcements? Also a lot of this is covered in the short story Warmaster, Horus reflects on how the brothers with him were already broken and untrustworthy creatures (Curze, Angron, Alpharius) and that the brothers against him were some of the best.
The entire galaxy's screwed over when Traitor Legions won and it ruins the canon of 40k. So yeah, they have to lose and the 40k must reach that status quo
Why would they be less threatened? The death of the Emperor doesn't change how terribly the ground-battle was going. In fact, the death of the Emperor might just Black Rage the fucking Custodes. If Horus survived the battle with the Emperor, it would be about 5 mins before he dropped dead from the wounds from Leman + Emps, and the fact that Jaghatai and Dorn were like 2 mins out from getting to the emps vs horus fight. So, Horus survives the fight, and dies 2 mins later. The ground battle still goes to hell, with the traitors routing, reinforcements come even harder, though that may be significantly more difficult without the Astronomicon. In other words, the traitors still retreat, but all the more sane ones die en masse because now there's no way to navigate the warp. One of the primarchs that remains, likely Dorn, is forced to fight the rift underneath the palace 24/7, alongside the sisters of silence and custodes (Dorn because he's a super-blank) though he and Jaghatai could alternate, as Jaghatai going all-out is absurdly strong. Yes, the Emps knew that Chaos would try to tempt his sons, so he made sure it would tempt the shit ones.
If the Emperor dies the whole planet blows up after Malcador dies on the Golden Throne (he was already almost dead when Dorn returns with wounded Emperor after the duel).
TLDR : he became bald... bald white men always lose
To see something bald that isn't a mans head go here : www.patreon.com/majorkill
Of course being bald is a reason too.
Shuush spoilers
Bro Bruce Willis?
Me a bald white man: is a loser
I take that personally (the bald white guy - not the 🐔👔).
Once Perturabo left the siege of Terra it was basically GG’s for the Traitor Legions, he was hard carrying the others who were heavily succumbing to the side effects of Chaos.
Yeah Perty was pretty much the only thing keeping the siege going by the time he left after that everything just fell apart
if he will overcome the depression caused by his undesired ascension to deamonhood he woll become a huge threat for the loyalist
i read that on mortis and i got to say his reasons for leaving were baddly developed. The whole thing started when horus decided to attack the wall with all their titan might and perturabo was againts it because he believed there was no way they could penetrate win that fight but horus forced him to do so. But the thing is horus was right, the plan did actualy worked so it seems perturabo left for nothing. It would have been beter if the iron warriors had participated on the battle, suffered terrible casuaties and then perturabo had decided to leave at the end of the book instead of the beguining. It felt rushed to me. Besides there was no reaction from dorn at all about perturabo leaving. This whole thing was a fight between dorn and perturabo and when he leaves he is not even acknowledged by the loyalists.
That was the cool thing about perty. He was the traitor who wasn't absolutely fucked in the head with chaos.
But then GW went and had him become a daemon prince for some damn reason.
Daemon Primarch Perty is Old Lore dumbass like Sanginius dying on Terra
Honsou met Perty
The more they dedicate themselves to Chaos the more chaotic they became. It's tough to organize people who are being corrupted to disorder. So although you have a lot of power to bring to bear they keep wandering off to do their own chaotic thing. Like the Emperor's Children running around trying to make weird drugs out of people rather than attacking the loyal forces.
"If only the Anachist could get themselves organised?"
Aye. If half the Traitor Legions that attacked Terra during the climax of the Heresy weren't on the Chaos Coolaid - like how the Iron Warriors were basically carrying the siege since they were still sober and not running around doing their own thing like the Emperor's Children and World Eaters - chances are the traitors would've won if it weren't for them.
Which also shows why Guilliman was the best First Primarch to Return, choice. He is the Demigod of Logistics!
Okay Perturabo.
@@BoneTrait For a guy who rejects Chaos Gods, he became a Daemon Prince of the Undivided
Tzeentch using Magnus to break the Webway was definitely the biggest move the traitors ever made. Imagine the siege, but with 9000 more Custodes, the Emperor and Vulkan defending the walls, plus the mechanicus.
i sweat if that happened like 6 custodes wouldve shit stomped horus
plus magnus would still be loyal so he could sit on the golden throne while the empeor shit mixed the entire chaos force
@@bestnameever1850 the Emperor at fully power would have been much more able to keep the daemons at bay too! That would leave loyal Magnus to throw mind bullets at my Horus's fleet. Without daemons the Phalanx could've fought in the solar war, too.
and the thousand sons being loyal too
Dude Chaos was not at full strength either...more than half the Titan legions went to Horus. Titans level cities, 9000 Custodes really not going to do much
@@Internetbutthurt one custodes could massacre a whole city's population efficiently and with less fuel wasted. And I mean the whole city is filled with battle-ready berserkers
I think Perturabo had another hidden primarch "power" that prevents literally anybody in his universe from appreciating him.
That is not a primarch power, it is called "smelling of dirt and entitlement".
Lol
@robertnelson9599 soil can smell surprisingly decent. Entitlement on the other hand, no.
@@Alex-mp5xewhat about entitled soil? some dirt thinks it’s better than me
When you read Mortis, you see that Perturabo, despite having his station as essentially the Grand Commander of the siege about to be usurped by Mortarion, didn't leave out of underappreciation. You know this because he already saw it coming - the influence of chaos was corrupting his ability to control the siege. He'd given up well before then, just sort of sitting there, letting the data wash over him - as Forrix put it - resigned already to not be in control anymore. In that situation, he knew that it would be sensible to let someone who could direct the warp-tides flow. That it even had to be done like this is what pissed him off. Across several authors we see Perturabo join Horus because he sees him as 'honourable', and that he trusts Horus, and keeps to him because of such honour - it's kind of his anchor to motivate his treachery. That anchor crumbles when Horus elects to employ, to Perturabo, a wholly dishonourable manner of warfare, by way of demons and the mutilations of the body and mind that are the currently chaos-dedicated legions. That shit genuinely inspires anger in him. When it becomes the crux of the siege, to Perturabo - and also Abaddon really - that is when Horus took away what victory meant for him. Not humbling Dorn, not "being appreciated", not killing the emperor, but having someone on the throne leading humanity who was honourable. He knows that couldn't be him, despite his ego from shittier authors: we see that in his reaving of Olympia, and the fallout on his own soul from that. At that moment to him, no being in the whole universe was fit to rule humanity. I really hope that they explore the ramifications of that fact for him in the scouring; maybe it could give us some nice wholesomeness before he turns demonic, kinda like what McNeill did for Magnus.
Agree with almost everything you said, except for failddon the armless. His an even bigger chaos tool than Horus.
@@mkno2799 Competence notwithstanding, you do see Abaddon in Saturnine express his frustrations along the same lines as Perturabo. At first it seems like a ploy to manipulate Perturabo to employ the Saturnine gambit - Perturabo gets pissed off for that reason - but you see throughout the novel, especially when he has his giant combat scene in the thick of it, how much sorrow he feels having had his honour as a warrior stripped away, and after feeling likewise at Perturabo for having manipulated _him_ to employ the Saturnine gambit, he feels gratitude to him, for letting him die as a warrior, instead of living with the victory they might have attained, but not _won._
Imagine if Peter Turbo came back and was anti-chaos. Not loyalist, but dedicated to crushing the chaos legions
@@Eta_Carinae__ Shame we don't see that side often. Who's your favourite traitor legion by the way and why?
@@mkno2799 I think it depends on when he's been written by Dan Abnett vs. when he's written by someone who isn't... Dan Abnett. I came at Warhammer 40k/30k initially from Black Libraries Horus Heresy, on the recommendation from the late TotalBiscuit - my first books were Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer, so I have a fairly irrational love for the Iron Warriors and World Eaters, but to me they embody the distilled character of the setting, sans the religious zeal: the tragedy, the horror of the meat-grinder, the expedience of human life and that resignation to endless war, but under the purview of _real_ characters.
As everyone said, chaos is simply the antithesis of order (or law in the really old WH lingo) and the more one dedicates himself to chaos, the more erratic his behaviour becomes. Once upon a time it was stated pretty clearly that chaos space marines are individually more powerful than their loyalist counterparts but they are way worse at working together and following any kind of shared strategy for more than 5 minutes straight. It takes exceptional circumstances and exceedingly powerful leaders to make several warbands work together and even then their alliance is tenuous at best.
Well stated except for not going far enough, getting one chapter of Chaos Marines to cooperate with itself must require herculean effort and border on impossible, getting more than one of them to cooperate with each other would require divine intervention at the minimum.
@@From-North-Jersey with the introduction of Chaos undivided (which happened in WHFB first and was then ported to 40K) some 20 years ago GW actually provided a way for the warbands to work together: it’s the rarest of events, when the 4 great powers set their differences aside and align. It never lasts long but the damage when it happens is incommensurable
thats why traitors loose, even it pains me agreeing that the nerds are individualy stronger than my wolves. It still makes me happy to know that the wolves can overcome any hardship, even stronger like CSM
chaos is chaotic evil
Chaos only seems to lack order until you learn how chaos IS order.
The problem of Chaos has always been Chaos itself. For all the talk of Chaos Undivided Chaos has always been divided. The only reason that Chaos even stands a chance against the Imperium has been that the Imperium had so many fronts and fish to fry. Without the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids, Tau and Necrons to contend with the Imperium could have steamrolled any Black Crusade coming out of the Eye.
Kharn has been butchering the Imperium for 10k years without dying once
The guy has slaughtered entire Chapters, Regiments, Sisterhoods, Knightholds and Mechanicus Freak Shows
Chaos is the byproduct of the War in Heaven where the Realm of Souls got so corrupted it turned into the Warp - a hotbed for the manifestation of Chaos there after all.
And it made the Horus Heresy barely a blip on the radar.
@@christiandauz3742 Draigo has been butchering Chaos for 10k years without dying once.
The guy has slaughtered warbands, cults, demon planets, greater demons, demon primarchs, and dark mechanicus freak shows
@@benjaminhartsock3281
Sure... (Sarcasm)
Kharn has slaughtered entire Hive Worlds without dying once
@@christiandauz3742 Yeah, I know. Draigo has slaughetered entire Demon Worlds my guy.
Dude shattered Tzeentch's impossible maze, fought his way to Khorne's throne, burned down one of Nurgle's Garden's, and spited Slaanesh to her face.
Kharn is one of the strongest space marines. He's nowhere close to THE strongest tho.
Sanguinius: *killed by Horus*
Blood Angels: "It's Morbin time"
And then they morbed all over
The world eaters basically went berserk mode after witnessing Angron get killed in front of them. They have been in rage mode ever since.
Perturabo: okay guys good job taking out the enemy's allies, I'm at the objective with 99% capture meter, let's finish this!
Fulgrim, jungling for civilians to turn into space cocaine:
Magnus respawning while his sons keep getting Thanos'd in front of him:
Kurze just AFK:
Alpharius and Omegon trolling the entire time:
Angron getting tilted 24/7:
Lorgar getting kicked for toxicity:
Horus and Mortarion actually helping, but Horus drank chaos god bath water and Morty has space ligma:
Perturabo: you know what, f*** this
[FistFucker69 has left the match]
Morty:ok im back and....oh. oh no. Horus? ...perty left.
Horus:....
Morty:horus?
Horus?:gg motherfucker,i took him with me.
Morty:...god damm it.
Pretty much. Magnus is spectator, Alpharius and Omegon dicking around the map, Angron is playing DOOM, Fulgrim is busy jacking off, Kurze is suffering from depression, Lorgar just spams text so is in time out. Horus splits up and gets killed, Mortation is playing with flue and cant play no more. Perturabo just tired of carrying the team after no one is putting effort.
Okay, this was just brilliant! 🤣
Underrated comment 😭😂
Lmao 🤣 this is the best 🤣
The fact these always seem to come out when I’m at the gym gives me even more motivation to get that primaris build.
You better be building yourself up to look like Logar
lat pull downs, FTW
My guy forgot to say that Alpha legion attacked Terra prematurely in order to show Dorn and his boys the weaknesses of Terra’s defence. Hydra Dominatus
No. They did it to trigger the hidden defenses. They didn't do anything too direct, which is why they lost so hard.
@@Jimothyjohnsbut victory...
@@bencastor9207superb retort sir 👏
*...as Storms Teeth roars instantly to life VROOM VROOOOOM*
"It's all part of the plan..."
-every man to call himself Alpharius
8:45 Sanguinius: "Hello nephews, how's your health plan?"
Traitor Legions: *attack and charge!*
Sanguinius: "Apparently it was great!"
Sanguinius in Alucard’s clothes and a demented smile is a WONDERFUL image
For once he can finally let loose
Sanguinius is massively overrated. Gets left for dead by KaBandha and Horus doesnt break a sweat against him.
@@Internetbutthurt I think his sons might disagree with that
@@Internetbutthurt That's like saying "Vegeta is overrated because Frieza killed him." The most powerful beings fighting still leave winners & losers, it can't all be contrived stalemates.
Perturabo is pretty much the soul reason the traitors ended up loosing thanks in no small part to Fulgrim trying to murder him. If Perty and the Iron warriors had stayed not only would he have probably broken through Dorns defenses (since he already was) but to make it even worse Perturabo was guarding the Astronomicon and his legion leaving directly caused it to be taken long enough to get the signal out the alerted the other loyalists that Terra hadn’t fallen
Dang
Perturabo is the MVP of the Traitor Primarchs
@@rexlumontad5644 Perty imo, is the MVP military primarch in terms of pure tactics. But he lacks social skills (including leadership) that are required for a truly great general.
@@darko-man8549 True. He really sucks at family relationships.
Damnekos and his daughter Calliphone tried to bond with Perturabo and give him family and love but he rejected them all.
I completely disagree. Perturabo leaving is not what caused the traitor to fail, the entire solar war and seige war fought with both sides knowing that there was a time limit, the Ultramarines, Dark Angles, and Space Wolves were all on the way to Terra, as soon as they arrived the fight would be over. Perturabo knew this, and towards the end of the siege he saw the writing on the wall, he could not break into the Palace before the Loyalist reinforcements arrived. The whole reason he sided with Horus was gone, he no longer felt obligated to stay and wait to killed when the Loyalists arrived, so he left. The Iron Warriors were not in charge of guarding the Astronomicon, you don't put siege specialists on guard duty during a siege. And it wouldn't have mattered anyway since an advance force of a few hundred Dark Angles broke through the Orbital Blockade of Terra and dropped onto the Astronomicon along with 2 Custodes. The astronomicon was not the signal that told the loyalists terra hadn't fallen. The Ultramarines and Dark Angles and Space Wolves all knew that is where they were needed and where they would find the traitors.
You have also forgotten that chaos wanted Horus to lose. The Gods got exactly what they wanted. A crippled Imperium with no rational leadership. And the worship of millions because of an unnecessarily cruel government.
You give Chaos too much credit. The only one that would even bother to think ahead and plan is Tzeentch. Nurgle doesn't give a shit, he's happy as he is no matter how dead the galaxy is. Slaanesh would've been content with fucking themselves with the souls collected floating around in the warp, not thinking about the consequences of their actions. Khorne is fucking crazy, all he wants is blood to be spilled and rage to be rampant. The only one that is capable of thinking long-term is Tzeentch.
@@starhammer5247 the chaos God are in many ways way smarter than any mortal being. They live in a realm that has no time. You can also see, in plague war, that Nurgle for example can plan ahead. He is all of the demons he created after all. Yes Tzeentch might be the smartest. But from an insect perspective it's like seeing Einstein and a normal guy, they can't comprehend the difference between their intelligence because their intellect is so much smaller.
@@meisterhyperion207 yeah even korne the often most straightforward god knows that blindly charging into the enemy isn't always best for bloodshed. The gods want to feed at the most energy and so having a little patience for a better feeding ground to form makes sense.
They genuinely wanted the emperor dead tho . They probably doubted Chaos Horus could permakill him so they settled with crippling him. Plus him watching the atheistic imperium he had built burn as a god likely had tzeentch rolling and choking in laughter for a millenia or two
@@licensed_beheader well, this joke may backfire hard, as the emperor is getting more and morr powerful
Is it possible that the Emperor chose Rogal to defend Terra because the warp bends around him, thus the chaos gods couldn't manipulate events around him as well?
Interesting observation
Malcador stated he and the Emperor didn't tell Dorn and the others about the Warp/Chaos because the knowledge would tempt and corrupt them
Mal believes all the Primarchs can be corrupted
Emperor just told Rogal to FORTIFY the heck out of the Imperial Palace while He and his Custodes and Sisters of Silence deal with their Imperial Webway problem Magnus caused.
No, in Mortis and Warhawk even Dorn is affected by the plagues from Mortarion causing everyone to despair. The whole "Dorn cancels warp" thing is mostly fan lore, in Solar War daemons manifest all over Phalanx and fight Dorn without dissolving or being hurt by being near him.
@@SirOrdo strange
It's interesting to note how Majorkill said if Horus had micromanaged the other legions but keep in mind it was Horus who also was fighting to keep control of his own chaos, in a way he had his own golden throne and it ended up being the end of him and the rebellion.
I feel like the efforts of Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists deserves a much more significant spot light when dealing with this subject. I think they were one of the biggest factors in Horus' defeats through Dorn's God like management of the loyalist war effort and the legendary effort the Imperial Fists put up at Phall, the entirety of the Sol system, void battles and of course in the siege itself.
The blood angels did a lot of good fighting at the Delphic Battlements though.
@@thathandsomedevil0828 They did and they deserve alot of credit for it, Sanguinius' dual with Kha'band'ha was legendary and his heroic sacrifice agaisnt Horus was awe inspiring and iconic.
But they DO get alot of credit for it. Where as Dorn and the Imperial Fists were the backbone and the brain behind the loyalist war effort. They had an absolute herculean task agaisnt overwhelming odds and they rose to the challenge and I feel like that just doesn't get as much attention and praise as it deserves.
Other legions helped, no doubt about that, the White Scars were very important. Those that couldn't help did all they could, heroically and valiantly, however, it was Dorn and the Imperial Fists that saved the Imperium.
Perturabo and Mortarion carried the whole siege on their backs. About Fulgrim, even if his Legion was useless, he manage to kill another Primarch one on one, that evens things out.
Also, the Word Bearers were not (only) more f***ed up, they were designed to b extra loyal to their Primarch.
Basicly, Horus became an abusive boss and Pert got sick of it. Thats the way they lost
Who knew running a rag tag group of pure crazy wouldn't have the best results.
It's funny too because Horus lead literal demon hordes for countless centuries in the warp... and STILL couldn't control Fulgrim or Angron worth a darn
And at least they losed because of there big ego and theyre childish behaviour . I mean at least nobody wanted to say perti that he makes a good job or at least that he is a "good Boy" haha
you must be that gal he mentions in every video but, who ever really controlled Angron?
2:15 Horus's reason to rebel against the Emperor of Mankind: "You had more scoops of ice cream than us, Father! Than me!"
There is the fact that most Primarchs that sided with him where not the most tactically minded compared to the Loyalists. Also attacking a fortified fortress as the attacker did not do the traitors any favors.
If the Emperor ignored Horus' taunt the traitors would have lost alot more given loyalist reinforcements are OTW.
Perturabo was he mvp of chaos
Or Horus would have left, and the Warmaster of Chaos would be actually competent.
Emperor had to attack Horus because the Traitors were almost breaching the Eternity Gate. Once they breach they can attack the Golden Throne directly.
Emperor was betting on Horus to leave his Gloriania ship open so that He and his strike force go there and take down Horus.
Of course we know how it went with Sanguinius dead and Big E interred on the Golden Throne.
@@christiandauz3742 You do know the Golden Throne is deep in the Imperial Dungeon right? Cuz I am sure some of BL authors don't.
Majorkill you should make a video on the what the roles of each primarch would be if they all stayed loyal I know other youtubers have made videos on this topic but your opinions could be wildeldly different from theirs I would love to see it
We know what Guilliman, Magnus, Russ, Dorn, Angron and Kurze would be. The others are kind of tough though.
I bet alpharius and Omegon would be the leader of some sort of emperor secrete police
@@antoinecyr2833 They would probably secretly support Choas despite being loyal in an intricate plan to improve the Imperium through nonsense no one can understand
@@antoinecyr2833 Either them or Konrad would be leading a version of the Inquisition.
Can you provide a channel that has done this? Would enjoy watching that!
One little nitpick, I could be completely wrong though but I thought the Iron Hands were not reduced 95% at isvann V. Ferrus took his most elite troops and fastest ships with him. Most were left behind, only about 40-60% of the iron hands were on Istvann which is why the shattered legions numbers comprised mostly of Iron Hands following the massacre. The shattered legions slowed the traitors down quite a bit and were actually quite essential in the end seeing as it was all about time. Great Video though!
Also problematic for Horus was that Corvus and the guard kind of recovered half their strength and led an Guerilla warfare behind his lines that drew conquered planets to Rebell against Horus and cost him resources and power. That’s also a reason why he rushed terra, dude couldn’t fight a war of attrition. Horus is pretty much like the csa. Aaah and then there is molech the planet Horus got super saiyajin and set his life to a deadline xD
And not to forget that without some Alpha Legion fuckery, Horus wouldn't have gotten an outdated map and Dorn wouldn't have upgraded the defenses of Terra and the imperial palace.
Pretty sure Horus knew the plans were fake. But Dorn did indeed do more fortificating.
That is exactly opposite of what happened and it is silly that fake name accounts spread it. Read the books.
Chaos being Chaos couldn't have been avoided, but Horus was in a bad spot on the final push to Terra. He had to attack because he knew the ultramarines were on there way, and he really didn't want them coming after the traitors. He mentioned several times how them entering the war would have been really bad news. So he didn't have a ton of time to consolidate. It's never described how much the lion messing up homeworlds hurt the chaos effort, or the iron hands attacking their fleet.
I thought it was alpharius who was the loyal one, as revealed by the new book, he grew up on terra and only took the name omegon when they found his twin, and he took his own name back after omegon death.
Hydra dominatus
Reminder at 6:30 that the Battle of Prospero was an even bigger advantage- an entire legion of loyal marines and their auxilieries flattened with the survivors turned to Chaos, a second loyal legion mauled. The biggest own goal in the whole Heresy.
The Battle of Prospero did flatten the Space Wolves. It weakened them, but it wasn’t the massacre you’re saying it was
@@Jimothyjohns
It flattened the Thousand Suns, who were loyal up until that point.
@@C00kiesAplenty I misunderstood your comment. But yeah, Horus was a genius changing the plans so that 1000 sons would betray Emps
0:25 How dare you, Majorkill! Kharn is a Swell Guy who loves to go for enthusiastic walks across the galaxy!
"No. *Fucking.* Disciple!" - Perturabo, midway through the Siege of Terra
Little comment about the claim around 2:30 about the AP bolted rounds. According to the Horus heresy books, there were solid shot rounds for the boters before Horus was injured. In fact, there was a specific conversation that loken had about wether to use the anti armor or anti personnel rounds before the battle where Horus was wounded
What were the Eldar doing during all this?
Did they just sit back and go WTF?
And what if they (or just some of them) decided to get involved on the side of the Loyalist?
In fact, why didn't they?
They knew the risk of Chaos, and having the Imperium fall completely to Chaos would not be good for the Eldar.
They were in the middle of a massive blood orgy and creating a new chaos god
They did try to kill a child, Angron. At the time of the heresy I also believe that the Eldar along with other races had been getting stomped by the legions. Even if they weren’t such low numbers I don’t really know the actual impact an Eldari force would do against rioded up astartes with a huge fleet.
the elder tried to kill angron before he turned into a deamon prince, they failed miserably. They also tried to kill lorgar, failed again. And also wasted like tons of troops againts a joint force of the iron hands, death guard and salamanders just to try to get to ferrus manus and warn him about the fall of fulgrim in the most idiotic way possible. They also were involved in a shadow war againts the cabal. a group of xenos similar to a federation that wanted to manipulate the result of the war by convincing alpharius to do their biding (until he betrayed them and decided to do what he wanted) the eldar eliminated the cabal and let their colaborators (john gramaticus) to try to change the result of the war thinking that only humanity could save the galaxy from chaos.
Eldrad did try to warn Fulgrim about Chaos but then discovered the latter is already corrupted by Slaaneshi daemon within the sword.
The Eldar probably had a big "we warned ya" moment, during the Horus Heresy.
Hey majorkill I just wanted to let you know that I’m a super new fan to warhammer but your channel attracted me to the entirety of the lore! I even bought myself copies of dawn of war 1 and 2 and my favorite faction became the tyrannids, I just love the idea of strong and crazy bugs just doing what bugs do! Thank you for your funny commentary and entertaining videos man!
As a big custodes stan, I like to imagine a demon fighting tooth and nail to take the walls of the Imperial Palace against the Astartes defenders then wondering what that gold thing in the distance coming really really fast is and why the doom 2016 soundtrack getting louder and louder.
Holy Shit. Majorkill is killing it with uploads. Dig it, also digging the Patreon Subscription, great artwork.
The siege books imply that the chaos gods demand the attack at that time. Almost like they were meant to lose.
video idea : lore on the imperial navy, what is heresy, ecclesiarchy, the ages of the imperium (age of rebirth, forging, nova terra, age of redemption, the waning, time of ending, age of the dark imperium/era indomitus), the imperial army (precursor to the imperial guard and navy) tau sphere of expansion, eldar paths, and every single type of squigs
Squigs first.
Majorkill: anyone who blows that big of a lead should not be taken seriously.
Also Majorkill: I love elves
This was a fuggin' excellent video and basically a very compressed and accurate lol abridged version of the Horus Heresey books I've been listening too. Legend. Respect for continually putting out quality content. GG fam.
holy emperor, that was a fantastic summary and presentation of the traitor legions! nice one
The best visualisation of this issue is the battle of Thermopylae where the disorderly Persians were crushed before the tactically sound and organised Spartans. Organisation allows your army's strengths to be best employed and your weaknesses best hidden.
This is why the loyalist primarchs and their legions are more powerful than the traitor ones.
Here's an idea. What was each primarch's preferred formal/non armor outfit before the Horus heresy
I'm picturing Rogal Dorn in a classy Armani suit, Angron in a Conan loincloth, Sanguinius in a red & gold ruffle shirt...
That's all I got.
@@guyver441 i fully believe that when he was not in the armor, Big E was in a casual robe and sandals
@@galaxy-wg1lf and that fulgrim was in drip supreme mindset
@@synergy8879 purple golf robe
@@synergy8879 Lol he'd probably walk around looking like a Crown Royal bag
The loyalists weren't at full strength cuz the primarchs said themselves that a good chunk of them are scattered around on different planets. The ones that were too far from terra were told to stay there just in case. As for the traitors, the demons and mass suicides by the guard I think made up for the lack of space marines. Plus the traitors still had the mortis titans.
Pretty sure the Titan forces were close to equal in strength especialy when you consider Terra was defended by the Legio of Psyker titans that are almost immortal.
@@MrFallenone all the titans got killed in warhawk except the traitor ones. The pskyer ones died too. Got possessed I think. There might be some back up ones but idk. Seems bleak
@@MrFallenone The traitors assaulted the Inner Palace and breached the Mercury wall using the entire intact and warp empowered legio Mortis, over 100 reanimated demon titans from the battlefields of the "titan death", and a group of newly deployed Warmaster titans. Against them was legio Ignatum, a few legio Gryphonicus titans (main strength deployed elsewhere) and the remnants of the shatter loyalist titan legions that survived the "titan death". The Psy titans, if I remember the lore, were only about 30 in number and I not sure they deployed their full strength at the Palace. Warp fuckery played a big part too, disrupting the wall guns efficiency but in terms of titans, the loyalist were out numbered and out gunned.
Imagine if Majorkill came out with his own version of imperial knights...
they would be gundams
Skaven in Fantasy are a great example of the strength and weaknesses of Chaos. You have the strongest power in theory and could easily win, but in reality the nature of Chaos is sabotaging itself. Chaos is it's own worst enemy.
Another advantage the traitors had at the start of the siege is that legions such as the sons of Horus massively grew their own size with mediocre and quickly made marines, so the sons of Horus were at half strength, but their numbers were way higher than what they were at Istvaan III
0:12 In TTS, Abaddon was supposed to be voiced by Takahata101 aka Abridged Alucard and Mr. Perfect Cell.
That would be sick
And Santodes.
Always top tier content from Majorkill
I honestly always thought one of the biggest subtle advantages that the loyalists had was just Chaos turning the traitors’ brains to Swiss cheese. Sure, it’s a power boost, but it also erodes the hell out of higher thought processes over time - with enough exposure you can become a sort of “high functioning chaos addict,” but that takes a very long time and most of the legions were very new to the whole thing. They got drunk off of their new gods’ influence and couldn’t control their impulses. Fulgrim being the most obvious example.
You forgot to mention that Horus was also no longer playing a full deck, he was shifting between being himself and being a slave possessed by the Chaos gods, to the point that Abaddon started showing contempt for him.
The way I see it is, when it comes to chaos, winning is losing. Unending war is more chaotic than domination.
Traitors lost Pertaurbo, Big GGs with that.
When attacking a defensive position you need at least a 5-1 advantage in resources......to attack Dorns best you would need 10-1 advantage....... Terra was an unimaginable killing ground and the traitors had the entirity of space as somewhere to 'watch our back.....................head......side........balls.......you get the picture.
I wonder why they didn't just virus bomb Terra.
The Rogal Dorn, either come at him with 10-1 adventage or expect to get fisted.
Majorkill will always be my source of 40k lore
Fastest I've ever hit a notification. Your shirt is tripping me out
Chaos Won my guy. The Chaos Gods want exactly how humanity is in the current 40K setting.
You give Chaos too much credit. The only one that would even bother to think ahead and plan is Tzeentch. Nurgle doesn't give a shit, he's happy as he is no matter how dead the galaxy is. Slaanesh would've been content with fucking themselves with the souls collected floating around in the warp, not thinking about the consequences of their actions. Khorne is fucking crazy, all he wants is blood to be spilled and rage to be rampant. The only one that is capable of thinking long-term is Tzeentch.
This isn’t wrong to be fair
I think of it more along the lines of ‘Chaos won’ (which is 100% true), but the Traitor legions as a whole faction lost, if that makes any sense
@@lordssenthe3st493 that makes sense. Traitors goal was to make horus the emperor, which failed
@@Asraeks That’s exactly on point 👍 Combined with how weakened they are in numbers and supplies following the next 10k years, it’s clear to see how badly they lost the Heresy.
What I love about the Siege of terra is the fact that EVERYONE was there
All the Space Marines
Almost all of the Custodes (I think)
All of the Guardsman
All of the Inquisition
And the sheer scale of it is just bonkers, seeing the art posted by Games workshop with Guardsmen holding the line with Iron Fists backing them up
They really outdid themselves on that one
Inquisition didn't really existed in that moment
Pertey may be one of my favourite primarchs, just pure badass fed up of helping people who don’t like respect or care for him,
I always thought it was because the choas gods dont want to win. The longer a war rages, the better for them.
Can you imagine what the god of killing would do if his side actually wiped out the imperiam?
ROFL "Anything that can fumble such a big lead doesn't deserve to be taken seriously." Gives me more respect for Abaddon keeping things going for so long... what if Chaos (or half of it) didn't actually WANT Horus to win? Big E ended up as a super lich, the traitor marines had to run off to live in the warp where they continue to steal people, and the Imperium has slid slowly towards Chaos ever since... just sayin' u can fleece a sheep many times but only skin it once. Tzeench and Nurgle get it;)
I think Alpharius is still the loyalist.
If I remember correctly from the Alpharius novel he and Omegon switch spots and he allowed Omegon to run the legion
sounds like the typical multiplayer experience for the traitors, all you teammates are terrible or give up completely.
By the Emperor, such HERESY!! Listen sir. With Respect. The Traitors disadvange is that they were traitors, they never stood a chance being build on their lack of loyalty. The Alpha Legion was a major part of that. Angron really just wanted to kill, Perturabo was busy checking to see if people were noticing he was crying a lot, the cyclops was conflicted and good in the end kinda, Fulgrim just wanted people to smooch his pickle, Horus himself was a badass but not enough and really, he is all he had. Chaos never stood a chance because Chaos is just that. "chaos indeed."
TO HELL WITH THE IMPERIUM!!!!!
So basically the loyalists opperated like a sensible military and the traitors were lead by my last 5 league of legends lobbies. One running it down, one rage quitting half way through, one afk most of the game, one Leroy Jenkinsing it and getting clapped repeatedly.
You should make a video on which ancient human deity each primarch embodies.
I think I finally understand what chaos really is in the context of 40k. Like chaos in it's normal state is like a pin ball going all haywire inside of the pin ball machine hitting and colliding with the walls and maze like obstructions inside of said machine making all kind of noises and a light show. It's entertaining and interesting to watch. Another analogy could be diffusion of potassium permanganate in water or bromine in air. On the molecular and atomic level in the case of bromine all the molecules and atoms are moving haphazardly and spontaneous in the fluid medium in order to take up space. Even Radioactive decay is a practical use of chaos due to definition of what half life is and how nuclear fission works.
Now in 40k, chaos is just a bastardization of the very concept of chaos itself. It's like if a group of hooligans go into said bar just to destroy the pin ball machine, then beat as much people in the bar and if they fail summon some demons to slaughter the entire town for no reason.
Then the imperium is a "solution" to chaos but it's akin to sawing of your arms after a jellyfish sting instead of applying anti venom to the wound or any proper medical treatment besides sawing going vrrrr.
Perty was the real mvp that had to hard carry the team.
Before I watch the video:
I believe the reason why is because the Chaos Gods did not want to win the war to begin with, that is why the Traitor Legions did not. In truth, the Chaos Gods wanted to knock the Emperor down a peg so that they could enact their own plans later on. They are all playing a far bigger game than most people realize.
It is also no secret that the Chaos Gods often band together if one of them starts getting too powerful. This could very well be the case with the Emperor and Chaos Undivided, they did all this just to make sure that the Emperor's plans fail and their plans culminate. However, for their plans to be enacted properly, they could not have won the war. They most likely saw that this current future of 40K is far and away better than just outright killing the Emperor and having their forces invaded practically uninterrupted.
Khorne needs war, so he fought for a future where there is only war. Slaanesh needs excess pleasure and pain, the 40K setting has a lot of the second option. Nurgle needs death and disease, the hive cities of 40K fester with that. Tzeench needs schemes, changes, and plans, 40K has a lot of that. All of them benefitted from not outright killing the Emperor and winning the war.
It also does not help that Chaos makes things hard to coordinate. Though, I also believe the moment the Traitor Legions within the Eye of Terror stop being useful is the moment they get expunged from it permanently. They are pawns like their primarchs, nothing more than that.
You know, I reread that passage about Perturabo rage-quitting a number of times. It's amusing to say that no one appreciated him, but I think there was a bigger reason. The Iron Warriors were reassigned to other areas in the siege and split among several forward positions. Horus was basically going to use the IW as cannon fodder AGAIN, and in a far worse way. They already had to sacrifice a ton of their legion strength to escape the war with the Ultramarines, then again to confront the World Eaters on Deluge. Perturabo was refusing to make his legion cover the advance of the other Traitors, which was their only reward for their unflinching obedience. Horus had promised that the IW would no longer be forced into the bloodiest actions, like they were under the Imperium. But clearly the opposite was true, and Horus was going to send them all to their deaths. The 8th edition codex says that the IW still regard Perturabo as having saved them from horrible sacrifices, under both the Emperor and Horus, and there's pretty good evidence that this was in fact true, at least in some ways.
Dude, you are absolutely killing it lately.
Wasnt the biggest fan back in the day, but damn man, you are smashing this shit.
So Majorkill. Do you have any plans in the future for videos on the other two chaos champions you haven't talked about, Typhus and Ahriman?
I think Typhus could have a video on how unlikable he is as a character. Meanwhile, Ahriman could have his own video on either how powerful or misunderstood he is. Just spitballing of course.
I would love a video about Typhus. I always saw him as being a more complex and interesting version of the armless failure. Yes his unlikeable and yes his a Saturday morning cartoon villain. But once you read lore about the death guard, the Horus Heresy and his relationship with Morty. You can't help but "get" him.
Well Typhon is hafl xenos... it is to be expected.
9:50 you say the White Scars were at maximum strength yet in Path of Heaven it states the gruelling campaigns they endured over several years fighting against the traitor legions before they managed to get to Terra so their numbers had been reduced quite a lot
You know, when you put it like that. Its surprising the traitors did as well as they did on terra
I’ve been a die hard imperial guard player since 4th edition actually but I was given my brothers death guard models and it’s been fun painting and playing as them
Question: “What did the traitor legions do wrong during the Horus Heresy?”
Short answer: “They joined Chaos”
Now I know why the rule of two exists in Star Wars.
Honestly there’s a lot of “Convenient” timing that worked against the forces of Chaos, and a lot of plot armor going to the Loyalist that made the whole Heresy look like Super Bowl 51 where Chaos happened to be the ATL Falcons.
Yeah, I think the real reason the Horus Heresy failed would be more accurately summed up: "Things looked great for the heresy...until they fucking didn't! The setting needed them to lose, the end."
This is where the whole “chaos wanted the heresy to fail” theory comes in
Wow who would've guessed a faction called "Chaos" would have a hard time organizing themselves properly.
Lo
When I read about the Heresy for the 1st time, it reminds me the Great War on Warcraft 1 & 2. The Horde was about to invade and win the war, a clan leave the field and instead crush the humies, who are outnumbered and go after the traitors, they take half their army to chase the quitters, giving time to the Alliance to prepare an army and atack the guys, giving the humies a big, costly win.
It's funny that the Chaos lost the Heresy for their own mistakes, like they have to rush the win or the very late game will be a win to the Imperium. In the end, that happens and now they have Abbadon as their new warmaster, doing almost the same shit that make then lost the heresy.
The thumbnail is one of the best I've ever seen
What if? _Video idea_
*What if the traitors won?*
What would the Imperium look like under Chaos?
And how would it affect the rest of the Galaxy? The Eldar may be in trouble as Humanity would be all out to get them, not just being on again off again.
And then there's the Tau.
A Chaos Imperium would be a issue for most of the Xenos.
Look at worlds in the Eye of Terror to know what would happen if Horus had won.
What Archaon did prior to Age of Sigmar
Horus ascends and conquers the Multiverse!
Such thing as a Chaos Imperium would not exist even if Horus had won, they were already at each other's throat before even winning the war, splitting the spoils would had shattered whatever unity they had left and another civil war would had ensued, the material world would become just another map for the Chaos gods to play their eternal Game, maybe they would unite for a while from time to time to fight Tyranids or Tau if they ever become big enough threats and then come back to fight among themselves.
Then everyone is screwed and suffers horribly.
The End.
I don't see how your description differs much from the regular Imperium. They're already murderously xenophobic, that just sounds like more of the same. I think it would implode, with some claiming to be the Imperium, despite fighting each other, and others either claiming to be new states or just becoming roving bands of terror.
These may be stupid questions but the Horus Heresy books are almost impossible to get in my country: 1 at one point was it referred to as the Heresy? Since Big E didn't like religious stuff. And 2 was Horus aware that the Custodes were busy or was he just lucky there?
I think Dorn called it a heresy at one point.
I've read all but 2 of the Heresy books, all the Siege of Terra books and a couple of the Primarchs books and my answer to question 1.) would be No.
Throughout the Siege of Terra books the religious elements of the Imperium have their origin story but it wasn't until the Emperor was permanently on the golden throne that he became an official religious icon, it's referred to as a Heresy in 40k because by then the Emperor is considered a God without question.
Question 2 is trickier as the book Master of Mankind does show traitor astartes attacking in the tunnels alongside the daemons, with titan support. Whether this was fully known about by Horus I'm not sure.
Calling Horus' rebellion a "heresy" like a religious event doesnt come til way way later.
Reason why Chaos lost the Heresy in two words: Rogal Dorn.
The dude that almost died by the hand of Samus in Solar War?
Rogal Dorn couldn't even find out a Dark Eldar spyware that was planted within the framework of a shack the Imperium would call a palace.
SLAVESAYSWHAT?!
@@christiandauz3742 yes so what .
@@licensed_beheader
Chaos let the Imperium win
Doombreed wasn't on Terra
@@christiandauz3742 Tell that to horus who was blasted to oblivion as the chaos gods rage quit on him after they realised he wasnt as powerful as they hoped he would be .The whole chaos wanted to win trope is pretty weak and has no backing in terms of the lore as far as I know a
INCREDIBLE VIDEO. Really enjoyed this one.
I feel like horus pulled the short stick on primarchs
If they had thrown Leman Russ or Ferrus Manus to the Traitors the heresy would have been much closer
In his few moments of sanity during the Heresy he comments on this and says the same thing.
Had he had even just Ferrus Manus, he would have won the Heresy, as unlike Perturabo, Ferrus would not break or give up ever.
Heck in many of the fan creations of alternate Heresies, the traitors do many times better.
The Dornian Heresy ends like the Horus Heresy, but the Loyalists lose more Primarchs and the Traitors lose almost no one.
The Roboutian Heresy is similar, but while the number of Primarchs remains even, Guillimans methods leave the Imperium even more weakened and devastated than the Horus or Dornian Heresies, even if it still fails in the end.
If he had Roboute, it would have been so one-sided
Lion wud be perfect "heretic leader". Maybe the best duelist of the primarchs and very tacticly gifted!✌🇫🇮
If Sanguinius was corrupted during his time at Signus Prime, he would've been an asset to the Traitor Legions.
@@Super50ldier Well, Roboutian Heresy Sanguinius did fall to Slaanesh and his Blood Angels are horrifying Space Nosferatu Vampires with Glamour.
When I see Major Kill smile in every clip's intro, I always recall to Picture Day at school. Surely the Emperor is proud!
Here's the thing....you cannot judge Chaos by the standards of the Empire with regards to goal achievement. Chaos won because the Empire was put on a shaky path for the future without the Empire having the Emperor. Horus? You think 'care' was a part of the relationship between the Chaos Gods and Horus? Abbadon...got his ass kicked attacking Cadia right? Accomplished the mission...ass kicked...much loss...Chaos doesn't care. As long as shit is going sideways and the stress is ramping up in the realms of non-Chaos...Chaos happy. Oh no...they lost lots of Chaos marines...lots of demons banished...no fucks given. Materials and resources are limited...either by volume, or logistics, or time...I don't think that's an issue in the Warp. If you want to know who ultimately wins...it's Titsnitch...as long as things keep rolling along, and there are 'events' then he gains...it may be that he actually empowered the early Big E just to make sure shit got stirred up before Nurg's killed everyone with disease, or Kron ran out of skulls to take.
Magnus only just ascended to Daemonhood in his latest book and now has commited himself to Horus, we don't know how that will play out
Breaking news: Chaos is chaotic.
Yooo this si the best resume of the heresy I heard , keep it up bigdogggg
Another interesting question Major, love the Horus Heresy story and all the detailed lore behind chaos and imperium.
5:35 I always ask myself who is the floating guy in chains?
Sometimes i don't know who's taller horus or vulcan
Hey Majorkill, love the vids!
Now this is my opinion: the Chaos Space Marines lost the Horus Heresy, but Chaos itself did not. Essentially: a tactical loss for Chaos, but a strategic victory for Chaos.
Also, The siege of terra, its terra. The low ranking pdf guardsman is probably Veteran grade soldiers and There must have been waves of imperial heavy armour.
GW writers be like:
The Tyranids: A terrifying innumerable force of pure hunger who has the galaxy surrounded who rapidly adapts and evolves in every fight to become more efficient killing machines and can shut down chaos with their shadow in the warp.
The Necrons: Ancient immortal androids who killed the creator race and enslaved their own gods with technology so advanced it can easily shut down chaos.
The Tau: A young race that has become a technologically advanced space empire so incredibly quickly that if left unchecked will rule the galaxy and is nearly immune to chaos.
The Orks: The most numerous race in the galaxy who become stronger and more numerous the more you fight them, who's psychic power allows them to make any weapon and tool from use junk and grows with their numbers and is immune to chaos.
Chaos: Despite the fact that their inherently disorganized, constantly infighting, under equipped compered to their imperial counterparts, and their corruptive influence is really only effective against humans and eldar, they are the greatest threat to the galaxy because ...
Do you not think that if the Emperor had been killed and Horus survived the traitors may have been less threatened by the reinforcements?
Also a lot of this is covered in the short story Warmaster, Horus reflects on how the brothers with him were already broken and untrustworthy creatures (Curze, Angron, Alpharius) and that the brothers against him were some of the best.
With the Emperor dead the Imperium is lost
Horus then uses a spell to wipe out the Ultramarines
The entire galaxy's screwed over when Traitor Legions won and it ruins the canon of 40k.
So yeah, they have to lose and the 40k must reach that status quo
Why would they be less threatened? The death of the Emperor doesn't change how terribly the ground-battle was going. In fact, the death of the Emperor might just Black Rage the fucking Custodes. If Horus survived the battle with the Emperor, it would be about 5 mins before he dropped dead from the wounds from Leman + Emps, and the fact that Jaghatai and Dorn were like 2 mins out from getting to the emps vs horus fight.
So, Horus survives the fight, and dies 2 mins later. The ground battle still goes to hell, with the traitors routing, reinforcements come even harder, though that may be significantly more difficult without the Astronomicon. In other words, the traitors still retreat, but all the more sane ones die en masse because now there's no way to navigate the warp.
One of the primarchs that remains, likely Dorn, is forced to fight the rift underneath the palace 24/7, alongside the sisters of silence and custodes (Dorn because he's a super-blank) though he and Jaghatai could alternate, as Jaghatai going all-out is absurdly strong.
Yes, the Emps knew that Chaos would try to tempt his sons, so he made sure it would tempt the shit ones.
If the Emperor dies the whole planet blows up after Malcador dies on the Golden Throne (he was already almost dead when Dorn returns with wounded Emperor after the duel).
@@SirOrdo
You say that as if that's a bad thing for Chaos
Chaos is unstoppable. Several Daemon Princes have fought the emperor 1 vs 1 and survived.
Hey Major,
Good work mate. Just wanted to say that. Wasn't even watching your content right at the minute. Just felt like saying good job :)