Is God Really Trinity? || I’d Like to Know
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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The following questions are answered in this Q & A program:
1. Godhead question. Is God 1 in 3 persons?
2. Matthew 10:28 - Can the body be killed but not the soul?
3. The Bible mentions 2 seals, are they one and the same, or not?
4. The Bible says that God does not change (Genesis)
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Our Trinitarian friends affirm that Sister White became a Trinitarian beginning in 1889.
Here is a quote from "Ministry of Healing", written in 1905 which invalidates this assertion:
- "The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, *but not in person.* It is thus that God and Christ are one." {MH 422.1}
Mrs. White also wrote: "The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty...." That's pretty difficult to explain away in favor of a dogma Mrs. White would not even name. Her only use of the word "trinity" was to speak of the world's trinity--the three big categories of sin.
@@user-fd1lj4pn4g Amen ! could you please send me the refrence of the quote of ellen White about " the word "trinity" was to speak of the world's trinity--the three big categories of sin." I am very interested. In France we have not all the translations of ellen White books.
@@pat8398 "This warning now comes to you, and what will you do with it? Will you say, “Have no fear of me?” But beware of that which the old writers called the world’s trinity-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. If you trifle and tamper with these, they will prove your ruin. Unless you are born again, unless your objectionable hereditary tendencies are changed, unless purity and sanctification work a transformation in your lives, your barque will be shipwrecked, your souls lost." 13LtMs, Lt 43, 1898, par. 25
@@pat8398 I thought I had answered your question already, but just came back and read here to find no response. My apologies if I missed it. Here is what you are looking for:
This warning now comes to you, and what will you do with it? Will you say, “Have no fear of me?” But beware of that which the old writers called the world’s trinity-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. If you trifle and tamper with these, they will prove your ruin. Unless you are born again, unless your objectionable hereditary tendencies are changed, unless purity and sanctification work a transformation in your lives, your barque will be shipwrecked, your souls lost. {13LtMs, Lt 43, 1898, par. 25}
Jesus said unto her, “Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say unto them, ‘I ascend unto My Father and your Father and to My God and your God.’”J 20:17
Safer to believe Jesus who has first hand knowledge of the identity of God.John 17:3
*Soul in Hebrew is the word 'nephesh', which means "a living being"* [Strong's 5315]
*Soul in Greek is the word 'psyche', which means "a living being"* [Strong's 5590]
*Spirit in Hebrew is the word 'ruwach', which means "breath, wind, air"* [Strong's 7307]
*Spirit in Greek is the word 'pneuma', which can either mean "holy=adjective" Spirit or "breath, wind, air"* [Strong's 4151]
So, we can see from this that the words soul and spirit do not mean that we have our OWN spirit or soul, but rather we basically have the spirit of God in us keeping us alive, and with that spirit in us, we ARE LIVING SOULS. And we can see this clearly from the creation account ... Genesis 2:7 ...'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and *man became a living soul.'* ... Notice one very important point about the creation of Adam. When God breathed into him the breath of life, "Spirit", Adam *BECAME* a living "Soul". Do you see that? When the process is reversed, God's Spirit [breath] is removed and Adam dies, he becomes dust again.
This is an important truth concerning death and what happens when we die. Remember that Adam wasn't given a soul, he *BECAME a living soul with the divine breath of God inside him.* We are but dust without the Spirit [breath] of God in us, as this following Bible verse confirms ... Genesis 3:19 ...'In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.'
According to the *unbiblical teaching,* the *soul* is a separate entity that only resides in the body of the living. However, the text of Genesis 2:7 clearly states that God breathed into the formed man the "breath of life" *and the man became a living soul. He did not receive a living soul; he became one.* The New King James Bible states, *"man became a living being."*
When someone dies, their spirit, or breath of life, returns to God [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. God takes back the life [ruach, spirit, breath, or living giving priciple] that He granted, and the person ceases to live. When God said that humans would surely die if we transgressed His requirements [Genesis 2:17], He meant that we would cease to live, and would return to dust.
*The doctrine of immortality of the soul is unbiblical.* Quite frankly the teaching of the immortality of the soul suite the doctrine of Indulgences and Purgatory. The foundations of the most churches are firmly established on this doctrine. This is the very reason why the church of Rome is one of the wealthiest institutions, it is because of these very doctrines. *Any Rabbi or ardent Bible student will tell you that these doctrines are spiritualism. It is sad that most Christian teach these false doctrines.*
In many philosophical and religious tradition, immortality is conceived as the continued existence of an immaterial soul or mind beyond the physical death of the body. In Phaedo’s account, Socrates explains to his friends that a true philosopher should look forward to death. The purpose of the philosophical life is to free the soul from the needs of the body…, a philosopher should see it as the realization of his aim….
*These pagan deceptive doctrines have permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims.*
Socrates illustrates his conception of the soul by means of a compelling myth that describes the earth we know as a poor shadow of the true earth above us in the heavens. Then he has a bath, says his last good-byes, drinks the poisonous hemlock, and dies peacefully.
Eccl 9:5 states ‘For the living know that they shall die: *but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.’*
Therefore, the soul of man cannot continue to exist consciously apart from the body.
Furthermore, as is obvious from the account of Stephen, sleep is a common biblical metaphor for death. John 11 provides the clearest example. Here Jesus tell his disciples, *‘Our friend Lazarus sleepeth;* but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.’ His disciples replied, … ‘Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.’ Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. So, *‘Then said Jesus unto them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.”’* Vv11-14.
In 1 Cor 15, Paul says ‘ 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.’
Here we have a myriad of examples that the Bible speaks of the body asleep in death. Equally, the Bible never speaks of the soul asleep in death.
*‘The soul that sinneth, it shall die’* Ezekiel 18:20 The Bible Says After death a person: *returns to dust* [Psalms 104:29], *knows nothing* [Ecclesiastes 9:5], *possesses no mental powers* [Psalms 146:4], *has nothing to do with anything on earth* [Ecclesiastes 9:6], *does not live* [2 Kings 20:1], *waits in the grave* ([Job 17:13], *and continues not* [Job 14:1, 2].
Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
*According to God’s Word, souls do die. We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal* [Job 4:17].
*Only God is immortal* [1 Timothy 6:15, 16]. The concept of an undying, immortal soul is not found in the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.
The Hebrew word for *"breath"* in Genesis 2:7 is *neshamah* [H5397]: the life-giving principle. The breath [H5397] is equivalent to life itself (Isaiah 2:22). Another Hebrew word which is translated 28 times as "breath" in the King James Version is *ruach* [H7307], which can also mean "wind," "disposition," or "spirit." It is translated 237 times as "spirit" in the KJV. In Genesis 2:7, God's *breath [neshamah [H5397]* makes the inanimate material come to life, and transforms it into a living soul. *The Hebrew for soul is nephesh, and both the terms ruach and nephesh have frequently been misapplied to suit unbiblical positions about death.*
The origins of life and death are a mystery that even the scientific world cannot solve. The Scriptures, however, provide clear-cut answers on the origin of life and the origin and state of death. According to the Creation account, humanity received the gift of life from God.
@@berry-we9ul: This text [Isaiah 44:24] in its present script does *not* describe the nature of God at all. *The “threeness” and “the oneness” each person of the Godhead is inseparably connected to the other two.” This is pivotal to trinitarianism.* It is saying that all three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are consubstantial [of the one and the same substance]. *This “one in being” is referring to an ontological [metaphysical] oneness. It is this metaphysical [ontological] oneness that makes the teaching of a tri-personal Godhead trinitarian. Without this oneness, there is no trinity doctrine.* - *It should go without saying that the physical unity of the three persons of the Godhead cannot be proven scripturally.*- *This is THE main problem in the trinity debate - meaning it is stated by the trinity doctrine that the three personalities physically constitute the ‘one God’ [that all three are of one indivisible substance/essence].*
According to the present-day Adventist theologians, this ontological oneness is the “unity” that is referred to in Fundamental Beliefs No. 2.8
*In this sense [the ontological oneness], the SDA version of the trinity doctrine is in harmony with the orthodox trinity doctrine held by the Roman Catholic Church, and is also as held by much of Protestantism. *The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church renders it as such:*
“266 "Now this is the Catholic faith: *We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance;* for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).
267 *Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do.”* (Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, Profession of Faith, No.’s 266 & 267)
You may read the Bible from cover to cover as much as you would like. You will *NOT* find the doctrine of the trinity in scripture. The Patriarchs never mentioned this phenomenon, and neither did Jesus or His apostles. None of them mentioned this absurd man-made dogma.
Evidence proves that the doctrine of the trinity is intellectual philosophical speculation.
*Besides, there is *NOT a single verse in the Bible that says, 'God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,' or 'God is trinity'.*
The Trinity is an unintelligible proposition of platonic mysticisms that three are one and one is three. The Trinity is departing from believing in one true God [the Father]; it is departing from what the early church taught, and it is departing from the scripture. If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism.
Pastor bohr you are too inconsistent with your teachings. You know the truth but you preach error i once watched your presentation reading 1 Corinthians 8 : 6 and now your preaching trinity doctrine why?. May our lovely Father open your eyes and see the great truth about one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ not God in three persons
Pastor needs eye salve
What do you believe ?
I have been a SDA for years and never realized when the church say "Third person" they meant what they meant.
I only realized it recently and was VERY shocked to realize the church believes in the Trinity as the Catholics.
I have never seen the Holy Spirit as a separate "being"
Neither did the pioneers if you study it yourself.
But has ALWAYS seen it as God and Jesus' Spirit that is in all angles, people and created beings that lead us to God and in truth and give us life.
Trinity=Sunday=Antichrist
GodHead=Sabbath=True God
You cant mix these up.
If the Holy Spirit is a different "person" why isn't He mentioned in Rev 1:1 as a person?(He must have been 3rd in heaven in rank then?)
or in Rev 22:3 He doesn't sit on the throne with God and Jesus.If the Holy Spirit is a person surely in the end He will be on the thone as well as a'person' then to be honoured as well?
The Bible never mention that.
I hear you get voted out of chuch for not believing in the trinity?Yet they are ok with abortion in our official church letter.Maybe we should read our Bibles and SOP ourselves rather than listening to leaders in the church then Gods Holy Spirit can convince us instead of wrong teachings of men.
Always remember it was church leaders that crucified Jesus with Rome and leaders will lead you astray in the end times as well.
I am very new to being exposed to this debate. I just can't agree from overall theme of scripture that Holy Spirit is God. Jesus OBVIOUSLY spoke on/of "Father" and "Son", but did not clearly ever state Holy Spirit is God. EGW clearly was not a trinitarian and reproved many who went against "foundations" of Adventist faith.
The words Father and Son are just the language of the incarnation. Jesus is truly God all by Himself.
Thanks to Pastor Bohr for all the good teaching material he has given to the Adventist people, by the grace of God.
He always knew how to use the spoken word appropriately to defend the various points of Adventist beliefs. It was very valuable for me to teach myself and I sincerely thank him for that.
But I am saddened to find that he seems much less at ease in explaining the Trinity belief and, in dealing with his method, invokes very few verses to establish it.
Pastor Bohr evoked two different concepts of the trinity, presenter:
- one God with three faces (father, son and holy spirit)
- and the second concept, the one to which it adheres, represents the perfect divinity in three distinct persons, in unity, who are never in disagreement in all that they do and who are in perfect harmony.
It seems to me that there is a strange reduction in the understanding of divinity on the part of a man as pertinent as Pastor Bohr.
Indeed Pasteur Bohr offers two conceptions of divinity but he forgets another conception of divinity.
This third conception, the only one that is real biblical, would like the divinity to be resumed in only 2 persons who are the Father and the Son and where the Holy Spirit is then no longer a person but the spirit of the Father communicated to His Son Jesus, who, in turn , the release to men. These verses from Acts and John confirm this:
- Acts 2.33 "Lift up by the right hand of God, he received from the Father the Holy Spirit which had been promised, and he suspected him, as you see and hear."
- John 15.26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who comes from the Father, he bears record of me;"
The Holy Spirit is therefore the spirit of Jesus himself received from the Father and familiarly upon men.
This was the conception of divinity held by the pioneers of the historic Adventist movement, as confirmed by Sister Ellen White, among other quotes:
- “Encumbered with humanity, Christ could not be personally everywhere; that is why it was for their benefit that he left them, went to his father and sent the Holy Spirit to be his successor on earth. The Holy Spirit Himself is stripped of the personality of humanity and independent of it. He would represent himself as present in all places by his Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. { Manuscript releases vol 14 p. 23}
Elsewhere Pastor Bohr says that Jesus is eternal in the sense that he has no beginning or end.
Being French, I therefore consulted the definition of the word "eternal" in the Larousse dictionary and found 3 definitions:
1- Which has no beginning or end.
2- Which has a beginning but has no end.
3- Which is immutable.
- It would seem that the first definition "which has no beginning or end" concerns the Father perfectly.
- The second definition would concern the Son who has a beginning but no end.
- The Father and the Son being immutable therefore who never change.
At the risk of being called an Arianist (what is wrong), I dare say that Jesus had a beginning, certainly in times inconceivable for the human spirit, based on Proverbs chapter 8, on the wisdom that is Christ, as a whole and more precisely on verses 8.22,23,24
Again, Ellen White confirms this fact:
The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate-a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father-one in nature, in character, in purpose-the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6. His “goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Michah 5:2.
And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: “The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting.... When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him.” Proverbs 8:22-30. {PP 34.1}
The Father wrought by His Son in the creation of all heavenly beings. “By Him were all things created, ... whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.” Colossians 1:16. Angels are God's ministers, radiant with the light ever flowing from His presence and speeding on rapid wing to execute His will. But the Son, the anointed of God, the “express image of His person,” “the brightness of His glory,” “upholding all things by the word of His power,” holds supremacy over them all. Hebrews 1:3. “A glorious high throne from the beginning,” was the place of His sanctuary (Jeremiah 17:12); “a scepter of righteousness,” the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8. “Honor and majesty are before Him: strength and beauty are in His sanctuary.” Psalm 96:6. Mercy and truth go before His face. Psalm 89:14. {PP 34.2}
I believe that a good and sound understanding of this subject is of extreme importance when it is necessary for us to proclaim the message of the third angel centered on the worship of the True God, because how to bring Glory to a God whom we ignore ?
Amen! Very sad that this trinity doctrine was cleverly and slowly manipulated into the SDA Church!
Hi brother, yes your third conception is more accurate, the Holy Spirit does have a personality but not a form as quoted by Christ
Luk 24:39 KJV Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
EG White says the Nature of the Holy Spirit is best to stay silent on...
We are not Arians as they believe not in the pre-existent Son of God...
Pr Bohr has in previous presentations spoken that Christ had a beginning from Ages past quoting the SOP. .
Pr Bohr as a SDA independent ministry is the closest we are going to get on this topic...
The Godhead as we know it is a chain of Authority, starting from the Father...
Christ does not know the hour of His return, an Angel will convey it to Him 🙏
Rev 14:15 KJV And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Would have been nice to hear clarity from Pr. Bohr. He did not say "trinity".
Trinitarian is apostasy or pagans
Did apostles teach this type of gospel ❓
NEVER
In this vidéo "Trinity Truth - Risk of Eternal Loss - Stephen Bohr", 15 juil. 2016 Pastor Stephen Bohr explains how the divinely begotten Son of God was brought forth from the bosom of the Father even as Eve was made of a rib taken from Adam’s side and how in giving His son the Father was willing to risk eternal loss.
So how can he believe after that in the trinity doctrine?
Same question in my mind
Pastor Bohr sermon was about God the Father willing to risk the loss of His Son forever for a lost world. If you listen to his other sermon on the Godhead you will know he believes in the Holy Spirit as God.
I want them to explain 1 Corinth 8 vs 6
No, i think you misunderstood.. talking about incarnation, Jesus was begotten. But we should know He pre-existed His incarnation.. he never came from the Father as you Eve from Adam's rib. The Bible says, "... as one brought up with Him .. " prov 8:30. Notice, it says brought up WITH not BY
@johnlargie9245
1cor 8:6 emphasises the distinct personality of Jesus Christ and The Father..
Or how do you read that verse?
Remember even the Father is also referred to as Lord, its not a title for Jesus only..
KJV Exodus 20:1-2
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
At 7:29 the statement is made that "elohim" in Genesis 1:1 is plural. This gentleman embarrasses himself by showing his lack of Hebrew knowledge. Hebrew has many words, akin to the word "physics" in English, which appear plural in form but which are used in singular (or plural, depending on the verbs and adjectives). For example, the words faces, heavens, waters, lives, etc. are all _always_ plural in Hebrew--they have no singular form. I believe the word "elohim" is actually one these "plurale tantum" as well, though there are competing theories (no one knows for sure). Some claim that the word "el" is the singular for "elohim," but this is not correct: "el" has its own plural form, "elim." The verb "bara" used in Genesis 1:1 is a verb reserved for God's creation only, and is never used for any other entity in the Bible. And it always occurs in the singular. Genesis 1:27 is a prime example.
How can these pastors not be ashamed of themselves for either not knowing their Hebrew adequately, or for deliberately misleading the sheep?
Neither Jesus nor the apostles taught the false Catholic doctrine of the Trinity, invented in the 4th century AD. On the contrary, they taught that the only true God is God the Father (John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6). There is no valid argument against that. Furthermore, Christ stated that he has a God, God the Father (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12).
No one who has a god can be the only true God.
The Holy Spirit is nothing but the presence and power of the person of God, not of another third person or being. It is only the omnipresence of God.
1😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉I 🎉am am 🎉😂😂😂😂
I am still not convinced with your explanation regarding the Trinity. The Scripture reveals only one true God, which is the Father and Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son whom God sent to earth. John 17:3.
I question if you need to quote EGW, the bible answers the question fully
give me a text that answers that issue
GOD is one in unity not in numerical aspect, hence the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one just as a man and a woman become one in marriage but none looses their unique individuality 🙏🏿
Our Trinitarian friends affirm that Sister White became a Trinitarian beginning in 1889.
Here is a quote from "Ministry of Healing", written in 1905 which invalidates this assertion:
- "The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, *but not in person.* It is thus that God and Christ are one." {MH 422.1}
Nowhere in inspiration will you find the expression "God is one". As if multiple beings make up "One God". Inspiration defines it as the Father and Son being "one", but not "One God". One as in unity and in purpose. But not "One God". The very expression "One God" always means "one being". Not multiple beings fused together into one being.
I thank God for stalwarts like you all who can say it plainly and not mystify the concept of the Godhead into many words that would leave the flock in suspense. May we all come into the unity of the faith even as the Godhead is. God bless your ministries.
THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD
I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship.
The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1).
Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13).
God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9).
Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not.
It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time.
The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely.
Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven.
The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14).
This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere.
From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399).
It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blasheming against the the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is similar to what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does.
So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).
Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to the Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads.
Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else.
All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven".
We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.
Very good explanation. Studying church history exposes the "omega" of apostasy.
@@unknowngod5533 Thank you for your comment.
@@scottwakefield9741 Thank you for your comment.
@@unknowngod5533 Thank you for that reference.
Akeem have come a long way, used to watch him on periscope. praise God 🙏🏽👏🏽
Ugh, I have sent a few times my question to the email address you shared. However, my email didn't go through. It said that the email address couldn't be found. Is there another email address I can use to send in my question?
Anyone believing that 1+1+1=1 needs to regress to kindergarten! God knows math very, very well--His math is on display throughout creation. There is never such an illogical math in nature as this, and even if there were, God cannot be compared to "His" creation.
Jesus said he was "one" with the Father. If that makes him either the "Father" or "God," then the disciples must be our "God" too, because Jesus said they were to be "one" with him also (John 17:21-22).
“There are three living Persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-Those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, 63. (Evangelism, 615.
Synonyms for TRIO: trinity, threesome, . group of three, trilogy
You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. 7MR 267.2
Why is THREE so hard to understand?
Monotheism of Christianity is Monotheism (only one God).
Isaiah 44:24 (KJV) Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
On the point of the Heavenly Trio, I also learned that Christ came to Earth to represent the Father; to personify the Father. The Holy Spirit came to earth as Christ's Successor to represent Christ; to personify Christ. The Character of all of these members of the Godhead is One.
How in the world light formed into a shape of a dove be a person? Matthew 3:16 clearly says “he saw (cause it was light) the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him” furthermore Matthew says the Spirit of God not the Spirit of the Holy Spirit. Jesus credits the shape and voice to his Father notice: John 5:36-37 “But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. [37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” The only time the Father witness to Jesus being his Son is the Baptism end of discussion.
These pastors are men of God and Bible scholars
IF there is only God the Father why would Jesus have directed that people be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Matt 28:19 that’s plenty proof to me they are equal and a Godhead inclusive (but separate )of the three
No God is not a trinity,He is one person who has a Son who is God in nature,as he is born of God, and not in personality.
Jesus said, "When you see Me, you see the Father
Doesn't change the fact there is only one God,the Father
Patriarchs and prophets ....page 60 says - on the day they ate the fruit the irrevocable sentence would be pronounced...so they were not supposed to die that day.
All three of you on the panel need to go back and study the scriptures and open your hearts to Truth that Jesus taught His followers . In John 18:37 when Jesus was talking to Pilate He said everyone that is of the Truth heareth my voice. Pastor Bohr is not consistent in his preaching on the topic
In my language the word faith means i personally belive well i belive and i totally agree with those gents
Its sad that by the time ull will know that they r ryt it will b late
@@reaganmbazira1784 If Elder Bohr contradicts the Word of God, can he be right? Will you still believe him? or will you accept the Bible instead?
The Bible teaches that there is only one God. Jesus called it "the first of all the commandments," elevating it to the highest priority. "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29). The first commandment of the Ten says we should have "no other gods before _me."_ That "me" in Hebrew is singular. If God were three, wouldn't that command be invalid?
Jesus said plainly that the Father is "the only true God" (John 17:1-3). Unless the Son is the Father, he cannot be God--according to Jesus' own words. Jesus further said that the Father was _his_ God and _our_ God. See John 20:17.
Jesus had respect for his father. On earth he was human. God was his father in heaven. Genesis 1.2 The spirit of God was hovering over the face of the seep. (This is the holy spirit) Gen 1.26 Then God said, "Let US make man in Our own image, according to Our likeness) implying they are seperate but created together. Mathew 28.19
John 3.16
2 corinthians 1.21,22
Ephesians 4.4-6
@@Sabby22-wq3qi Study Hebrew and you will soon learn that "elohim" does not mean "God" in the English sense of the word. It means _people_ in Psalm 82:6, and Jesus quoted this verse, recorded in Greek in John 10:34, showing that Jesus knew that "elohim" could apply to people. It means "angels" in Psalm 8:5, quoted in Hebrews 2:7. And in Genesis 3:22, God includes the angels, to whom He is speaking, in the "us," for the angels knew about both good and evil at this point in time and they were to be sent to guard the path to the Tree of Life two verses later.
Angels are also "elohim"--there is no proper translation of "elohim" into English that can include both angels and "God" as we typically use the term, nor does Greek have a good equivalent, which is why Jesus is said to call us "theoi" (gods) (Jesus himself may have spoken in Hebrew or Aramaic, and his words were later recorded in Greek).
Genesis 1:26 is not exceptional, except for the fact it is so frequently misinterpreted. Hebrew scholars know that the verb there is "asah," a verb which can apply to beings other than God. If we but look at the very next verse we see that "God" is _singular_ in doing the actual creating.
Now, why would God say "let us" and then God did the creating by himself? That's an important, but separate question. What is clear, though, is that the verb in verse 27 is "bara," the same as is used in Genesis 1:1. This verb is reserved strictly to God's creations throughout the Hebrew scriptures, and is never used for anyone other than God. Furthermore, it always appears in the singular. Subject-verb agreement tells us its subject is singular.
As for Matthew 28:19, the word "name" is singular there, both in Greek and in English, and Jesus' disciples only baptized in that name, the name of their Lord Jesus Christ, never once mentioning either Father or Spirit while baptizing. Do we think to know better than they who had spent nearly four years under the personal tutelage of the best educator to ever walk this earth?
Rabbi Tovia Singer interviewing Jesus: 'Yes in fact your writing a book about the Trininty.' Jesus: 'That's right! It's called, Three's A Crowd.'
There is one God, Jesus
And the holy spirit which represent almighty God.
Jesus teaches Monotheism (only one God)
Mark 12:29 (KJV) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Interest, the Bible doesn't show or identify a third God...at no time does the Bible call the Holy Spirit a God (only man that justify the trinity). there is a Father and his Begotten Son (Jesus) who sits at the right hand of his Father's throne. Never does it say, "the Holy Spirit" sits at the left side of the Father. Duet 6:4 is missed quoted as unity of three. the bible does teach a woman and man become one..not three. The origins of the trinity are rooted from the Catholic doctrine AD325. Why would God establish the Seventh Day Adventist under a wrong God understanding...progressive understanding? which is man's justification. All the pioneers departed from their trinity belief into the SDA belief. The trinity was adopted in 1980, after many of attempts during early 1900 and 1960's. BRI states the trinity cannot be proven but needs to be accepted by assumption. 40 years in the SDA and I was surprise how we've changed our message and our mission. I Studied the trinity for 8 years before I released we have been deceived. I've heard many justifications why we should believe in three God in one with no biblical proof, only assumptions. Study to show yourselves approved and the Holy Spirit with teach you directly. Sister white quoted "Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit" Pray we all study for ourselves.
I would like to hear you discuss the nature of Christ, as it is my belief that you have a different view than the great majority and which I think is not correct. But I am open to listening to your view.
Not a single Adventist pastor/evangelist, will Publicly denounce the trinity, or Ellen White's many writings endorsing the Holy Spirit as the 3rd person of the Godhead --- it's only the self-taught anti-trinitarians, and self-proclaimed experts in the Godhead, that have to post their anti-trinitarian beliefs on every RUclips video supporting the divinity of the Holy Spirit.
Actually, a new theologian, Ingo Sorke, Ph.D. SDA Theologian, has renounced the Trinity Doctrine and stood with our pioneers and Ellen White. Also, we Non-Trinitarians (don't go saying "Anti-Trinitarian"...that's derogatory, you don't like it when Catholics call you Anti-Catholic) believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead. But not a person in the same sense as God and His Son are a person. But a person in a DIFFERENT sense. You don't go BREATHING another individual being out of yourself. That is ridiculous. The Holy Spirit is a person because it is the very personal presence of God and His Son, SPIRITUALLY manifested. It's not some third "Mr. God the Holy Spirit" over there that you're going to shake hands with. It is the very life, mind, character, personality, soul, breath and power of God. Also, Jesus was truly and literally begotten of the Father, once, from eternity. From everlasting. He came FROM His Father's substance. Inspiration is clear on this too.
Ellen White didn't believe what you think she believes. You simply misunderstand her supposed "Trinitarian quotes". They are not Trinitarian at all.
True Seventh-day Adventism, is Non-Trinitarian. And all those who want to get onboard with God's final and true remnant, will also become Non-Trinitarian. Because the 144,000 will be Non-Trinitarian, just like Ellen White and all the Pioneers. We believe in the Heavenly Trio. NOT the Trinity Doctrine.
Yes. So clear Holy Spirit is representative of Jesus, hence "Spirit of"....Church infiltrated from the beginning; Kellogg, Froome, Ford....never will end. Satan puts much focus on tearing down Adventism since inception.
But Adam did Die before or within the hours of the day After Eating the fruit. This statement Is made coming from the direction as GOD sees time as recorded in The BIBLE....a day is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as day to The LORD.
In addition to this when one looks at the day prophetically. Adam died and every human being has died before the Day was done or out...
The Bible says in 1 John 1:3, our fellowship is with the Father and His Son! There are only two divine beings! The Bible never speaks of three divine beings! They are totally wrong!
I enjoy listening to the answers to many questions. Thank you so much for putting these on.
Jesus Christ already existed long before the heaven and earth was created. He is the alpha and omega. Everything was made for him, by him and through him. He is king of kings and Lord of lords. ~ what does this mean? God is Christ departed his heavenly domain and dwelt amongst us in flesh so he was born in a virgin Mary.
A day in God's vocabulary means 1000 years,Adam lived no longer than 1000 years
A day in Genesis means a DAY, 24 hours. An evening and a morning.
How can you gentlemen believe God is a unity of three Co-Eternal persons, these three are one yet you quoted a scripture saying “I and my Father are one” which is two Jesus and his Father the Holy Spirit not! Mentioned, why is that? Until you can prove from scripture your worship of three on earth matches heaven’s worship in Revelation 4 & 5 this is unbiblical and is a doctrine of Devil.
The Holy Spirit has always been here in small measures. After Christ ascension the Holy came in full measures. In John chapter 16 Jesus speak of the Holy Spirit. In Mathew 28:19 Jesus gave the command to baptise in the name of the Three Godhead. If you denied the Holy Spirit who then will restrain Satan from you. Jesus also said those who sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven neither in this world or the next.
@DonjohnsonBG, what is your understanding of one? The way the bibles says about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
@@levynaibei7744 My understanding of One is in agreement with Moses Deuteronomy 6:4 which is one individual and that’s the Father. If you carefully read Deuteronomy 6:1-3 before verse 4 as well as the rest of Deuteronomy chapter 6 you will find Moses understanding of God is one individual person He,Him,His is all thru that chapter so how can it be a unity of three? Jesus also quoted from Deuteronomy 6 verses 13 & 16 and Deuteronomy 8:3 when he was tempted in the wilderness all with his father in mind.
@DonjohnsonBG if you check the hebrew text for Deut. 6:4 for God is Elohiym which is a plural term for powers . The same word, Elohyim is used in creation of man when God said , "Let us ..."
About wilderness of temptation, Christ here is speaking as human, incarnate.. not as Divine being. Later on he invokes His divinity by saying, "I and the Father are One" to mean He is God just like the Father, but of course one in character, purpose and nature. In Philipians 2:5, Christ is equal to God..
So what is the problem when one worships or believes in Christ as God?
@@levynaibei7744 The plural term is called the plural of majesty to denote greatness; in saying this that doesn’t make Deuteronomy 6:4 plural in the sense of one as a unity. When God said “Let Us” He was talking to his Son Ephesians 3:9 tells us God created all things by Jesus. I’m not denying the divinity of Christ what I’m trying to get you to see is, when it comes to Identity God is the Father not Jesus; the Hebrew/Jews all acknowledge the Father as God notice what Christ says: John 8:54 KJV “Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God”
Now in reference to Jesus Identity He is not God but the Son of God. When it comes to Christ nature He is God meaning Divine and is called God like John 1:1 says. Paul clearly said Jesus has a God and that is his Father notice: 2 Corinthians 11:31 KJV “The GOD AND FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.” Ephesians 1:3 KJV “Blessed be the GOD AND FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” This was so before the incarnation why do you think Jesus say the Father is greater than I ( John 14:28) The Father does not have a God He is the Most High not Jesus. There is no problem with worshipping or believing Jesus is God Christ clearly says: John 5:23 KJV “That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.” We must truly understand who God is and who Jesus Christ is or we will fail to understand John 3:16 in its fullness.
So does he believe in 3 gods that are united in purpose?
Good question!
Let me ask you a Question @ssenikinyange5290,
Is it wrong to worship Jesus?
@@levynaibei7744 Not at all. He's the son of God
@@ssenikinyange5290
Consider the following:
Matthew 2:11
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and WORSHIPPED HIM: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Matthew 20:20
20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, WORSHIPPING HIM, and desiring a certain thing of him.
Worship is a prerogative of God, so why are these people worshipping Jesus.. Jesus also forgave sinners, yet this is God's prerogative.
There are innumerable verses that point to Jesus as God. I believe Jesus Christ is God, and in the highest sense
If Jesus is God, why not believe in Him? If He is worshipped, why not believe in Him? @ssenikinyange5290
No, our God is one. The trinity is the worst lie that rome has infiltrated the church with.
I disagree completely. The lie of immortality of the soul is the worst. The trinity comes in as a strong second.
@@robjr8774 both are up there 👍
Sunday sacredness is horrific too, as it will involve the mark of the Roman beast.
@@jeanclaude7018 I agree!
Trinity is like in Rome Catholic Church the basis of SDA doctrine … it changes the whole religion. A new god was formed. Not what was revealed to pioneers as truth…
Is Jesus and the father 3 or 2
God the father 1 God the son 2 God the holy spirit 3
Mathew 28:19
Amen..
There is only one g-d, anything else is idolatry.
Is not Jesus Christ God? You tell me
@@levynaibei7744yes
Sad you believe in this evil lie.
Although the word trinity is not recorded in the Bible the God head is God the father God the son God the holy spirit
The only begotten Son of the Father is the “fullness” of the godhead, not 3 distinct persons. How can the Holy Spirit be another person when in Luke 24: 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
The only begotten Son of the Father is the “fullness” of the godhead, not 3 distinct persons. How can the Holy Spirit be another person when in Luke 24: 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Well God the father God the son God the holy spirit is 3 remember when Jesus was resurrected he was given his new body and when he told his disciples that his work on earth was over that he now will return to his father but that his holy spirit would remain to be with them and that is what continues today so yes that makes 3 also in matt 28:19 God says go baptize them meaning his people in the name of the father the son the holy spirit remember all 3 are as 1 but three different entities doing different jobs for the people the father creates the son saves the holy spirit continues the work until the return of heaven coming for his children that are saved
@@norallaniguez7706 God is one not in numerical perspective but on the perspective of perfect unity or corporation, hence the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one
Actually the Bible never says God the Son or God the Holy Spirit! There is God the Father and the Son of God and they have a Spirit like us which is the Holy Spirit! The Trinity is a deception from Rome! God is not a trinity! God is one, that is the Father! Jesus is God in nature because He came from the Father! I'm so surprised that Adventist has adopted this false teaching from Rome! The pioneers of old did not believe in a trinity God! So sad that Pastor Bohr knows the truth but has recanted and went back to believing this deception
You are wrong and you know it.
Stop teaching error just for the church.
😂😂😂😂
No ..God is not a trinity. God is one.
God is against human sacrifice. And the prophets of the Old testament said that it is an abomination to God to have the innocent and the righteous die for the sins of the wicked. Also God promised that the true Messiah would bring eternal peace to the world. But jesus spoke against the promises of God. Because jesus said do not think that I have come to bring peace. So he definitely cannot be the true Messiah.