hand traps are a horrible way to fix the game. relying on a percent chance to have access to a mechanic that prevents you from auto losing feels just so so bad.
Indeed, a 'just draw the out' phenomenon that gives you the illusion of balance, but in reality it does bigger harm than good. Ash blossom is a symptom of a bad managed game, it shouldn't exist, neither the reasons that was created for.
Yet they design cards that ignore those handtraps they created, for instance diabellstar effect of just setting a card, like the player doesn't have to search for the card to find it.
I think the fix for it is more archtype based hand traps, obviously havnis was broken in tear format but because it was the only card that existed like that, I'd we had like 8 decks that did it it might actually be fun
@AstralLaVista Hand traps were supposed to knock wombo combo decks down a peg, how does designing around your supposed solution make any sense? You're intentionally creating an arms race of 'problem/solution' but in the worst way possible. You have to make better hand traps to combat the new shit, then new shit that cares even less about hand traps, until everything just says 'your opponent cannot activate cards in response to this effect' or something to that effect. Tenpai and Gimmick Puppets are already toying with the idea that part of your strategy is being completely ignorant and immune to disruption.
I actually just rediscover the fact that I have an ash blossom irl when I was going through some old cards, it didn't make an impression on my brain back then and its funny now
Or, get this: You can have new, popular or already desired formats get implemented alongside fair ban lists and decks that are fully supported without being broken which you can actually have fun by playing. As an example, magic the gathering has commander, tell me why wouldn't you want to hypothetically have a 4 player yugioh game? That'd be awesome! Another thing to consider, imagine a world without Baronne de fleur or whatever other annoying monster.
@@jjasukaThe idea for links was a good thing, implemented horribly. They slowed down the game by restricting extra deck summons only to introduce link climbing and link swapping with sky strikers. Konami went against their own design philosophy and look where we ended up, extra combos into full end board on turn 1.
I used to think Ash Blossom is a necessary evil to stop toxic combos from ending on oppressive boards. But the fact is that nowadays, all the strongest decks just bypass Ash in some way. As a result, Ash is only good against decks that are Rogue tier or lower. This is what makes Ash a problem card: every deck can use it, but the weaker decks are hit significantly harder. Ash makes the strong decks stronger and the weak decks weaker. This is unhealthy for the game. Not to mention the way Ash is worded makes it way more powerful than people realize. "Negate an effect that *includes* one of the following" allows it to negate effects that don't search just because searching was mentioned somewhere. For example, an effect has a choice of A, B, or C, where A is a search but you choose C which is destroying a card, the effect can get negated by Ash despite the fact you're not even searching. Or an effect summons from GY then has optional dump from deck to GY, the summon gets negated by Ash even if you choose not to dump. Lastly, Ash is just unfun to play against. Her (and her less popular sister Ghost Belle) are just straight negates, and that's lame as hell. Good handtrap design punishes your opponent for overextending. Think Nibiru or Droll. Bad handtrap design is outright negating the first, and possibly only, play your opponent might have. Now of course if Ash gets banned, there's quite a few cards that also need to get banned. But to me, this is a good thing because Ash was a band aid fix for those cards to begin with. TLDR; Ash deserves to be banned, not because it's strong, but because it kills weaker decks, it's poorly worded and as a result negates things it shouldn't be able to, and it's just a flat out boring card.
This 100%. A lot of people keep saying the "necessary evil" argument, but that just lead us to the position we're in today. Ash was so powerful it made the meta decks have to get more powerful and it warped card design, as BreadBoy pointed out.
i appreciate ash because its necessary to interrupt modern decks. but you're right, if we removed ash, they'd be forced to stop designing around it and/or hit the problematic cards that ash keeps in check and cards are already beginning to power creep around it.. i dread the day that ash becomes obsolete
@@neonoah3353basically yes, the only funny thing about tcg not having maxx c are all the players eternally crying about coin toss formats that also are for maxx c staying banned and also want it banned in master duel. It's just really funny and I kind of want Konami to do what such people want.
I kept getting copyright striked that's why the video has a bunch of random unrelated gameplay in the background to get around this trash UGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
In 2024 ash is not overpowered, it's just good and ultra generic. Its like Dr. Doom in Marvel vs Capcom 3 or Landorus therion from Pokemon a few years back. Banning it at this point would do a lot more harm than good unless, as you mentioned, a massive number of other cards were also banned, probably a thousand or more. Since that kind of banlist will literally never happen, we kinda need to just accept what we have.
Fam, Hidden Missiles is a cancer to that game. Why should one button stop the entire flow of the game? You just cuz it's possible to dodge it doesn't mean that it should be there
??????? I played Pokémon vgc and UMvC3 back in the day, and let me tell you, those aren't the comparisons you'd give to advocate for Ash being fair. Far from it.
The Errata youve presented is legit a perfect idea and is rather well thought out. But ofcourse ash in the tcg feels better, but evem if the errata were ro hit rhe tcg i wouldnt be mad
Ironically, the term generic cards like staples and boss monsters goes both ways. Not only are they good against almost everything, they are also super boring and exactly that, generic. Handtraps, generic boss monsters, and the speed are the main things that kill it for me. Having 4 handtraps and 1 starter should not be a thing whatsoever. For anyone who is sick of stale formats, I recommend Edison format. Trust me, it’s a lot more fun. P.S: I would just ban ash for all of the Branded Fusions not resolved. Just obnoxious. Interesting idea with errataing the card. I think it could work.
Agree, 4 handtraps and 1 starter for FTK/OTK should not be a thing. I just want to say that yugioh have very few options for formats to play so playing Edison isn't the real solution, if your want to play a mid Deck that is 3-4 years old for example, your only option is the competitive 2024 tier zero format. The tcg needs more popular formats (or fix the game).
hot take here Banning Ash would have been a good thing back then when SHE destroyed the meta, she and all the other handtraps like her Yugioh has scalated to this degree of powercreep because of handtraps, and now the power train has no brakes just as you mentioned, design space has been revolving around handtraps for quite some time, and things have been getting out of *hand* enough to make them a necessary evil back then i sighed and rolled my eyes when i heard about handtraps, now i cannot imagine the levels of absurdity the game would have without them the power in the game has escalated to a degree that it can't go back without some serious rules change and a considerable shift in the design direction of cards
That's not a hot take, just a wrong take. Combos were already accelerating to a ridiculous pace before Ash was released, and handtraps are an interactive way to slow those down. Remember that Ash released AFTER full power Spyral and Zoodiac, who I'll remind you are decks that are STILL POWERFUL.
@@Rynjinivar Full powered Spyral didn't happen until a few sets after Ash released. But I agree with you in concept. Ash was created as a hand trap that could deal with escalating power on cards that weren't monsters on the field. Cards like Foolish Burial, Emergency Teleport, Card of Demise, Desires, and Grass jump to mind as potential design issues being considered when Ash was being designed. It seemed built to solve problems the then current suite of hand traps couldn't deal with. Even had they not ramped power creep up in the years after Ash would still probably be a perfectly healthy card.
@@Rynjinivar combos were accelerating at a ridiculous pace, and then making Ash gave a justification to keep making them, instead of trying to solve the problem that was already popping up just as Breadboy said, yes, there was a problem with combo decks like Zoodiac, but once Ash got released all design space revolved around her and now Konami is doing things to power creep even Ash, with Diabellstar bringing spells directly to the field, but its too late to go back now, because the minimum bar has been set very high
@@DragoSmash You say that like they're not going to keep monetizing power creep _without_ Ash. That's the business model Konami runs this game on, they make broken shit and hit older cards to force people to buy the new stuff, they do fuck all about how broken the new stuff is, then they hit all the stuff they released and put out even more broken shit. That's been the name of the game ever since Critter Format.
Yes. The bad part of yugioh not having set rotation is that if a card is good enough it can last forever in the meta. Im tired of seeing all deck in the meta be the same handtraps plus whatever archetype. Weve been in a handtrap tier zero for years but nobody has noticed.
I’ve Noticed! And Hand Traps have both been Beneficial, And Annoying! The Worst Part is that Ghost Orge and Ash made even More of These DAMN THINGS!!! I seriously want Different Meta Formats, especially when we look back at early 2014 and 2015!
I'm glad someone brought up that Ash does more than just stop a search. I auto-play 3 copies of this little shit because I've never had a game where it wasn't live at least ONCE. I genuinely want to know why they thought stopping the search wasn't enough, you could've put each effect on a separate card and they'd be played still.
There may be a way to kill "Maxx C" without resorting to the banlist. Suggestion: Make Ritual, Fusion, Synchros, Xyz, Pendulum, LINK summoning classified as their own separate summoning methods Reasoning: This makes the chances people will "special summon" more rare, especially since nowadays decks are bound to "use the extra deck to help with their plays. Due to the rarity of special summoning (and I do believe the effect of '"Maxx C" lasts until the end of the turn), it would've been more of a gamble to pull of Maxx C, depending on the deck. Thus duelists will eventually have to play less copies of it since it wastes precious space in the deck. Considerations: By making the extra deck summoning methods (and rituals and pendulums) their own separate thing, it does however ruin some decks as they do rely on effects when "special summoned" even though they were not in accordance to my suggestion. Benefits: "Maxx C" wouldn't be very troubling in Master Duel and it wouldn't be troubling as well in the OCG, unless the people here LOVE "Maxx C"
I like the idea, maybe add mana quark as part of special summoning where types of more difficult summoning like ritual are less costly, easier types like link are more costly and tax summoning across types if they are not part of your archetype I think this would slow down the game in general, perhaps have it as an experimental format
better option would be, to just limit the times you are allowed to special summon each turn. like a max of 5-6 special summons max per turn! atleast this way, you wouldnt screw up 10000 other cards, like your retarded suggestion!
@@southafrica405limiting decks based on their archetype, or type and attribute is definitely a way to balance. There will always be a broken deck every format, but it does cool down the game a bit and narrows decks to rely more on their own stuff that was actually made for them to play.
ngl i cant really imagine a yugioh at its current pace without ash blossom... decks like branded just getting to pop off for almost free, Altergeist ALWAYS getting that search for multifaker if not just having it off rip and getting a free silq during your turn, dinos... getting to pop da baby for da baby lesss goooo like misc is at 3 WITHOUT EVER SEEING MISC... Gren maju pumping their boss by 4k AND getting to draw 2? Ash is like fucking batman tbh we need ash whether we like it or not
Dinos dont really Care about Ash If you got a xenoground also in your Hand but nowadays ppl Play Like 24 handtraps wich is absolutely crazy and super unfun to Play against for Branded Just Bann the stupid Fusion and WHO the hell plays alter even dzeef doesnt Play that anymore
@gab4198 Borreload at least requires some semblance of cost in the forms of playing at least 2 links. So you take 3 ED slots and not just be splashed in every deck.
@@randombadchannel8700 plus savage loses to crow and bystials cause Most links are Dark and crow bannishes anything anyways thats why i dont even think about playing savage anymore. Even in Decks Like pend where you Always Play beyond cause its Just a broken Link two wich you Link away anyways for a Link 3 geting it bannishes by a bystials is super frustrating savage is Just a blue eyes then. The real pain in ygo is Baron the Card has basically No downside and is way to easy to summon
Maybe this is something the community should take the lead on instead of putting the pressure on Konami; turning it into some kind of experimental format. Create a custom format where the generic handtraps are banned, sparing maybe Droll (to keep things from getting too out of hand), Crow, and Veiler for targeted interaction. We all know that this will allow some decks to get completely out of hand, but that's the point. Allow these decks to bubble to the surface and figure out the best way to approach nerfing these decks, then let the next decks bubble up, repeating the process until the game has been slowed down sufficiently. Ash is too much of a filter card that Konami seems to have given their job of proactively keeping the game manageable. It's created the game state of either handtrapping your opponent into oblivion, drawing the out, or doing neither and just simply losing. This is a problem that needs to be solved, but there is no broad stroke way to easily solve it. It will take dedicated time and effort, something that the community has plenty of. Yugitubers would be very effective in this regard as they have large followings and can leverage that to try and affect change, hopefully for the better.
People organize tournaments like that all the time, mostly via master duel. A format where all the top handtraps are banned would be interesting considering there are tons of handtraps that barely see any play (because who bothers with stuff like gnomaterial even if it's broken Vs one deck when ash is good against anything?).
Yes, it should be banned……..IF decks at this point weren’t designed around it If we ban ash then stopping decks from popping off would be so hard at this point Either it should have been banned a long time ago or we lower the power of decks universally EDIT: okay now that I actually watched the video lol. I have to say that I LOVE the errata idea
@@four-en-tee But they aren’t tho- If decks were designed with Maxx-C in mind they would attempt to special summon 1-2 times maximum for full combo OR decks would have ways around MaxC Neither are true so- Okay there are rarely a few decks that only summon 1-2 monsters but the odd thing is that those decks are either bad, don’t see place where MaxC is legal, or they are so rare that using them as an example of “designed around MaxC” is a stretch
@@randombadchannel8700 again- that’s not true tho Whenever you look at any OCG tournament or MasterDuel what happens is you combo anyways regardless of MaxC. Any combo deck literally ever that’s good in the TCG is also good in the OCG and MasterDuel In what way shape or form does MaxC keep in check combo decks? It’s never once gatekept a deck. And whenever it’s played you combo through it anyways since you Auto-Lose if you don’t regardless of what deck you’re playing
I dont know about "banned" but its very RARE to not play Ash since almost every deck has a Stratos. It was only in the Year of Fire format where people think about siding Ash to avoid being Hiita'd. If they do hit it in some way, it will be like a Upstart to 1 limitation Konami TCG did in 2016.
It would be better if they banned her and focused more on handtraps for estabilished boards or protection, this single card makes an uncountable number of archetypes unplayable just because they need to resolve this one effect to do anything.
It’s only like that because Konami wants it that way Most of the new archetypes are placing cards on the s/t zone specifically to play around ash The next era of power creep is going to be brutal and even ash won’t be able to deal with it
*Laughs in casual gameplay* I think I speak for everyone that plays decks from before 2015 when I say I agree. I play Yugioh protagonist decks down to the most optimized list by an actual judge. And then I go to locals and spend the 45 minute wait time per game watching the other player take combos that empty out their extra deck and half their main deck onto the field, but unless you have numerous hand traps, the opponent will have a field with anywhere between 1 card that I can't touch or a full field that no matter what I use, there's ten negates for it. I've played against Kashtira burn decks three times! This game is not fun for returning or new players. I genuinely don't know how anyone can get into this game from scratch.
@@gaaraofthefunk265 As long as the GY is a second hand for most decks like it has been for most of the game's lifespan Shifter will remain a problem card.
The irony is they aren't being played because they don't hit or interrupt the decks the way it needs to. Ash stops special summoning from the deck or tutors. Droll stops tutors hard, but at a slight downside of both players but does not stop setting from deck or special summoning from deck. Ghost Ogre pops a card during activation but doesn't negate it. Sure you might stop someone from synchro or link or XYZ plays with it but it doesn't always interrupt if say, that card has some "When X is destroyed" clause or "You can do this from the graveyard clause." Veiler stops an effect on the field but only for monsters. If their combo piece starts from the hand, veiler is useless but it's fine to stop saying Baronne or Apollusa from disrupting your plays. Battle traps aren't relevant in a best of three but might be Ok In stall strategies in MD which is best of one. Gorz hasn't been relevant with negates running around and with OTK strategies that sometimes makes a 10k monster. So unless there's a replacement that can be on par with the likes of the ones that are used. Or the game changes so much that it's slowed down considerably. It's unlikely that the most used handtraps will be banned.
100%. I think the default number of handtraps you'll want to run in your decklist shouldn't be changing. It only depends on the meta at this point. They can't steal games by themself. But instead are a way to keep you in safe position. I did play more than edison so i do know there are tons of other ones than fits that role and not reliant on your battle phase.
@@redouanalami5115 "Please run 20 of the same cards in your main deck, and at least 5 of the same cards of your extra deck and ruin creativity!" is all you coulda said tbh.
MD is weird. I'd be quite disappointed if they outright ban the roach without ever having tried to nerf it. Would be a good time for them to remember it's a digital game.
@@Heyhowsitgoin999but it would still be abusable by decks that can have 15+ handtraps like snake eye or tempai. The lower ceiling decks going first would still loose
@@southafrica405those decks can already play that many handtraps regardless and you lose against them regardless of them having the roach or not. People really need to look at stats with more attention, which is a good thing master duel gave us. It's an observable fact that the roach benefits the player going second more than it does the player going first. The win rate increase is not huge, but that's because there are currently too many cards that stop the roach and it's precisely those decks who benefit from that. The tcg without the roach became a sad thing where the first player to combo after playing through all the handtraps wins. It's just everyone throwing handtraps at each other until the other player is left without plays, whoever draws the best engine card then pops off. And post siding the guy going first slaps in 6 floodgates and you're left with 2-4 cards in hand, if you opened handtraps, and have to contend with summon limit or anti spell, very fun and interactive.
Roach needs an errata that your opponent takes no damage till the end of the next turn to making passing when you get maxx c'ed a realistic option. Currently your choices are "play the game and get OTKed because they drew too m uch" or "pass turn so they don't draw too much and get OTKed". Maxx C is essentially "discard this card, OTK your opponent" if they don't have ash blossom. It's the worst fucking design lol
Ash blossom has been on an all time low in terms of effectiveness. In a meta where Maxx C is banned and branded is going to be butchered by the next banlist, Ash serves no purpose besides the "Oh well I got 3 slots for a handtrap, might as well use ash." So I don't think it needs to be banned. Cards that need to be banned is stuff like shifter and droll.
Personally, I want decks to be pure archetype/engine, no bs hand traps, no barrone, just pure satisfying back and forth (I also want dinosaur beat down to be meta again)
I hadn't considered that Ash was something of a floodgate. To that end, I do think it's lazy of Konami to design OCG archetypes around Maxx C as if it were a skill. I think something like 5D's speed duels would be ideal; the card games on motorcycles version. It's kind of a misnomer; really, it slows the duel down.
I believe that there are a LOT of decks that would flourish with the absence of that feet fuck. Hits to cetain decks must be made of course, but thats a risk im willing to take if it means that i will face iff against more decks
Aint no way bro is coming at ash when imperm is just as guilty and these handtraps are the only play you have going second against basically every deck
What I appreciate about this channel is how you ignore the current problem of the week is and instead focus on the overarching issues and how we can improve the game overall instead of just putting a bandage over something that is going to be irrelevant when the next set releases. Ash Blossom is a card that I have taken issue with for years now. This is going to be a hot take but Ash deserves to go. It negates three different types of effects that are all common. It is also impossible to dodge the negation as it does not target. Ash is too versatile and difficult to interact with. Compare it to Veiler for example. Veiler only works on monsters that are on the field and it has to target the monster that you want to negate which opens the possibility of counterplay. Ash has no such downside.
one thing I always find annoying about the idea of nerfing hand traps to be useable only when you don’t control cards (ive heard this idea for maxx “c” where people want it only useable if you control no monsters) is the idea of you getting handtrapped at a weak point in your combo then your opponent having a turn but whatever you had isn’t live now, this ash errata is better than alot of these ideas cause if your opponent does stop your turn you aren’t necessarily dead in the water if all you have is an ash
I really don't think Ash Blossom is a problem card. Sure you can use it against pretty much every deck and it will always do something but nearly no good deck loses to 1 Ash Blossom. In the tcg Ash Blossom sometimes also falls out of the meta depending on what the best deck is (for example in the Tearlament tier 0 meta). (I am pretty sure you don't really have to play Ash in the current tcg meta as well.) The main reason why Ash is at a near 100% playrate in Master Duel is that it counters Maxx "C" the actual best card that is legal in any format. I know this video is about the tcg and yeah even in the tcg Ash sees a lot of play because of how versatile Ash is but that is the main reason why its played it always does _something_ but on its own 1 Ash Blossom doesn't actually stop a Snake-Eyes or a Fire King or a Kashtira or a Plant Link or a Dragon Link deck. Ash is nice it always does something and combined with other handtraps it can stop a good deck from doing what it wants to do but not on its own. I don't mind banning Ash simply because it is played so much since such a long time but we shouldn't pretend like its an actual problem card imo
The first quote that you said is the problem. If a deck is determined to be good by How well it plays around Ash blossom is a problem. Cuz something else is determining how good it is. Example, magical musketeers is a great deck. But most of the time you have to start with Casper or Starfire to start playing right? One Ash turns that whole thing off. Whereas that deck has a functionality to compete against every deck because it has tools to deal with everydeck. But it can't even start playing because there's three Ash in the game In every deck
Ash does not serve a real purpose in the tcg anymore, except keeping in check low-mid tier decks. Elite tier decks cannot be stopped by a single ash blossom without using 2-3 other handtraps on top. So do we really need to keep in check non-top tier decks? Do we really need to force a handtrap heavy format for the tcg or there is another way to deal with the powercreep? Or maybe variety is bad for the game so we don't want elite decks to get occasionally outshined?
Ash serves an extremely important purpose that other hand traps can match. It's a catch-all hand trap for dealing with advantage generating effects that aren't tied to monsters on field. It being a counter to Pots, E-Teles, and Foolish Burials gives all decks the ability to trade one for one with these cards which the other hand traps can't do unless it's weird like Nadir Servant and can be Belle'd. One for one trades are so much healthier than something like Droll which gives them their search but then ends the turn.
Indeed, Ash is being a counter to Pots, E-tele, foolish burials and basically every card that touches the Deck, including all basics in-archetype searchs that 90% of the existed Decks desperately needs to work. I agree that the 1 for 1 aspect of Ash is at least a balanced one. Personally, I believe banning Ash is a bit to harsh, limiting it along with the Pots, E-teles, foolish burials and any other potentially problematic card is the way to go. Also, I would like to allow Decks that can search it to have it as a end board piece.
I feel like these questions are just a circular conversation. Bann that card and a combo can actually finish, ban that card and the combo can't be used, and so on. I watched the vid for the KHs music.
Something that I think would be nice is if hand traps were a part of your specific deck. I really love that different decks do completely different things, and I would like it if hand traps fed into that. So, instead of generic Ash Blossom, adamancipator gets a way to manipulate what card they can search, while kashtira makes them banish it face down instead. If hand traps became deck exclusive, I can imagine some crazy stuff coming out too. Like, a zombie deck that has a card similar to maxx c except it mills instead. Or charmers getting a hand trap that lets them set and flip a monster. Heck, if they figured out how to word it, they could even make an archetype who's entire gimmick was going second, who was able to bypass the limitations of other archetype's handtraps. If decks started having stuff they did that was unique going second, it might not feel as boring and lame to do so, and the power of your hand traps would genuinely be a boon. Yugioh's kinda gotten to a point where archetypes are the center of deckbuilding, so they should just lean into it.
It's hard to say, but I will say this. I think ash's usage mostly comes down to believing that it's that good. The card undoubtedly has it's moments, but it's not always that terribly good. Obviously right now it's mid at best, detrimental at worst because if snake-eye, but even aside from that, there's very few situations where it's impactful enough to stop a deck. It can stop branded, and it can hurt Labrynth, but outside of that I can't think of many other decks that were absolutely ruined by it. Talking about one of it's worst formats, PHHY format. You could ash wraitsoth, but it doesn't matter because they already have a Kash in hand. You could ash unicorn to potentially stop them from getting to birth or theosis, you could ash theosis itself, but they may be able to extend anyways because you decided to save your ash for theosis and they now have Birth. Let's not forget how ashing unicorn or theosis also usually meant losing a card in your extra deck. And lastly, lets not forget about about Talents. Thanks for the draw 2/confiscation.
i kind of wish konami had promoted speed duel format more bc it's the first time we've actually had a format other than standard and it was a really fun and different version of the game and they actually made perfectly ultimate great moth playable
I would say the contrary, we need even more handtraps, not just for especific situations but for generic ones that also work with the kind of deck you are playing, maybe a handtrap that negate handtraps or something like that, that would be ok.
It's a zombie that's for sure. And it's not going to get better because Konami doesn't care. There was a point where they could have reversed course without having to back too far out but they've let it go far too long without course correction. It's fucked.
@@geek593 I think there have been some amazing formats in the last few years I really enjoyed. I can't be that pessimistic. I really liked DUNE format, Ish tear, swordsoul branded, tri zoo format. They are still cooking for me
@@BreadBoyWeeb Yeah maybe I m too harsh here... But with my sky striker deck I meet some issu to fight against meta.It's not impossible but just very very hard so I dont know anymore. I m thinking of getting a labrynth deck maybe ... I dont know what to do with this game anymore
@@BreadBoyWeeb The exception proves the rule unfortunately. The amount of fun I had in the formats with matchups I enjoyed was wiped away by intensely diseased card design. Personally I loved DIFO format under the specific lens of Branded vs. Swordsoul game 1 as long as there was no mained Rivalry or Mine. Game 2 and 3 ended up being unplayable dogshit because floodgates, ASF, and Dimensional Barrier were sided in. All the fun of two decks that didn't care if they went first or second clashing on an even playing field evaporated. Then you look at the table next to you and see Floo vs. Drytron and somehow Drytron is winning because they played Mystic Mine in the main and past them someone is on minute 30 of his Brave Rose Dragon Tenyi combo which ends on a protected Scythe lock. The little oases of good gameplay are rare and accidental.
Literally the only card that stops me as i run the synchro, jet synchron deck. But, apparently using adventure token cards gets around it, havent tried it yet but it apparently works.
i wish the walking negates were slowed down, too, but, focusing on ash itself... it's just so frustrating, as are the other handtraps they made later, like infinite impermanence. I do wonder about a format with less handtraps that relies more on board breakers such as kaijus, there can be only one, forbidden droplet, etc. If one at least gets to go off and build a board before it gets broken, maybe it would be less frustrating than getting handtrapped. The thing is, people would probably rely more on cards like solemn judgment to counter those, and duels would probably take longer as well. Time on rounds is quite a problem as well. It's tough.
Banned no? Semi’d or limited to decrease opening with Ash in hand. Maybe only if Maxx C stays banned/limited to 1, Called By the Grave gets bumped to 2.
banning ash and maxx C don't solve root problem of yugioh. Yugioh needs a clear cut direction on how the feeling should be when playing the game. Combo oriented and fast pace? or just slow pace yet many turns? Only then, the solution can be pin pointed. Assuming the game state has to be slow down, Banning ash and maxx C only make things worse, as the real problem lies on "why player choose to auto include those cards" rather than "how those cards ruin every single game." If you want to slow down a game, you need more cards that can actually effectively limit the ability to special summon or searching and consistently used in on turn 1, in the same time T1 player has a consistent chance to survive T2 OTK. If you want a face pace, you might need to make every deck like full power ishizu tearlament, where who goes first don't really matter as everyone has a chance to play against you during your first turn. This way, banning maxx C and ash become essential as the hand trap can potentially instant wins you any game the moment it thrown, or lose because your opponent succeed maxx C challange. either way, yugioh needs a big overhaul in order to solve "T1 big boards turn 2 decide winners" kind of game. However, in the perspective of konami, this also means taking risk to lost existing player as people don't like huge overhaul change where all of those older cards become totally no value. It damages the profit of konami long run. A good example is how they implement huge changes in link era where you need link monster to use extra deck cards, also later they update again revert some of the bad changes before. Both causes a wave of player just gone like that. The similar phenomeneon can be observe in cardfight vanguard as well, which is more radical.
The only reason the newest card are as strong as they are is because we have cards like Ash. The current state of the game is the fault of one goddamn card.
what id we make quick play spells playable during opponent turn like first season Yu-Gi-Oh sounds really busted but at least it negates the likelihood of not having an interaction during opponent turn
I don't really have any strong opinions on Ash tbh. To me it's just another handtrap thats a 1-1 interaction. With that being said I do think it being able to cover a wide variety of effects while some may find annoying I do sort of like it for how it helps with deckspace. If you split Ash's effect negation between three cards that just means there's more cards you need to buy (I shudder at the thought of the prices they would have in the TCG) and in the case of a huge variety in the meta you may have to run all three and then other handtraps on top of that which just makes deckspace more restrictive. The errata I do like tbh for the TCG specifically and honestly any way to make turn 1 combo negate boards less oppressive even by a small amount is a good thing.
@@BreadBoyWeeb I honestly think rule changes/additions are the way to go and then adding a banlist after a couple of months post said rule changes for further balancing.
Well of course, this dumbass doesn't really take card market into consideration when he is going off with his takes. Same with his video about generic monster cards. Why have generic monsters that are a one and done when you can make a dozen of them which means you have to spend either 360 UR materials or hundreds of dollars to buy physical cards. All 3 of his videos are anti consumer in nature. Banning Maxx C outright removes 9 staples in Master Duel wich means 9 different UR cards that will have to replace the gap which will vary deck by deck. Banning generic extra deck monsters does the same. At no point does he ever consider if this will make the game more affordable. At best he might make a video along the lines "Konami shouldn't be greedy" when generic cards are the best way to keep track of demands. It's easier to reprint 100 most played cards compared to whatever vision this guy has.
8000 lifepoints isn't enough to keep a player safe for even a turn. Konami should raise the base lifepoint total to 10,000. It's a small increase compared to what decks are capable of, but it just might be enough of a cushion to allow players to turn duels around. They could even go extreme and make it 15,000 lifepoints.
I think limit would work. Because most players often bring 3 so they need to replace 2 copies with other handtrap or techs. Ash power level is sure really different from other handtrap such as droll, ghost belle even shifter. Even if playing against non-combo deck, she just works. Because every archetype at least has 1 card that helps to draw, add something, dump something or special summon straight from deck. The other handtrap just slow or situational. Shifter needs you to have 0 monster in GY, Droll is slow and has drawback to you, Ghost Belle mostly to counter zombie archetype, Veiler targets and can only be used during opp. Main phase, D.D. Crow has similar issue with ghost belle, Skull Meister is budget Ghost Belle, Ghost mourner is too specific despite bonus burn damage, Chaos Hunter is format dependant and costly, Psy-framegear handtraps are too costful and need you to control no monster. Pankratops and Ghost Ogre are decent but still far from Ash.
Guy who's salty about Maxx "C" is also salty about Ash Blossom, who woulda thunk? Let me guess... got your "break my board" combo deck shut down by a single card one too many times, right? Seriously, though, cards like Maxx "C" and Ash Blossom exist to try and keep the game at least somewhat in check. Maxx "C" by making your opponent have to choose between doing their full combo and giving you huge amounts of card advantage (and also risk getting hit by more disruption), or settling for a less developed board state to deny that advantage, and Ash Blossom by basically preventing your opponent from completing their combo. I've got two thoughts on this: 1. Keep Ash Blossom and thus any remote sense of balance the game might still have OR 2. Ban Ash Blossom and see how deep the rabbit hole goes, and how much more bullshit the community is willing to take before giving Konami the collective middle finger and ditching this unbalanced game. Here's the thing - Konami isn't going to slow the game down REGARDLESS of whether Ash Blossom is banned or not. Ash Blossom is a symptom, not the cause, same with Maxx "C". The cause is Konami monetizing power creep and INTENTIONALLY making more and more powerful cards SPECIFICALLY with the intent of forcing sales.
Talking for the Tcg, Maxx "c" is already banned for years and most of the people agree it is by far the best Standard Yugioh format we have for this exact reason. Ash blossom does not preventing your opponent from completing their combo, except if you are ashing low tier decks. I agree the existance of Ash blossom and the consolidation of Maxx "c" is a symptom of a poorly managed game, not the cause, along with some other handtraps and generic overpowered Extra Deck monsters. Powecreep is a bad business model for a 25 years old game and should not be excused.
There is a continuous spell card called 'Prohibition', all it does is have you say the name of one card, and it cannot be used for the rest of the duel, as long as it is on board. It has potential to slow down the game, but would need to be protected as any effect that can, will remove it from the board and make the card you chose playable again, at least in Yu-Gi-Oh GX Spirit Caller, I'm not sure about actual tournaments. The best part is that it's at three and is searchable by generic spell searchers so you can just ban three problem cards of your choosing.
prohibition is useless going second, its just eh going first. Why would I side it going first when you can side a floodgate like summon limit and instantly win no matter what
In a non-rotating game power creep is inevitable that's why I think there's 2 and only 2 ways to fix Yugioh either 1) a hilariously large banlist or 2) a complete overhaul / new game If my understanding of the game is right, then during Yugis-Era they realized that Archetypes are a good thing but during Fusion-Era they realized that having an overpowered archetype made players simply not play weaker archetypes so because everyone was playing the same archetype they backpaddled and made more generic bosses, the Synchro Monsters to allow more variety then, during Synchro Era they realized, that people loved the less archtype bound generic approach because it added a lot of versatility to deckbuilding and made their decks feel more personal (tho decks where still archetype based, just less strict) and then they overdid it During the Xyz-Era generic bosses started growing way too powerful now easily accessible generic bosses often if not always where more powerful then hard to access archetype bosses the game quickly lost all balance and a solution was needed they couldn't tune generic bosses down as the mistakes where already made and the number monsters where the whole gimmik of this era so instead of treating the sickness, they started treating the symptoms Hand traps and flood gates started spawning left and right While they did good in treating the symptoms, they actually brought more harm than good as the sickness still grew and it rapidly did so hand traps and flood gates enabled power creep to go crazy Pendulum Era came and was so very very over powered that it literally killed all the old cards they lost players left and right because all their decks got nuked by pendulum so they had to drastically nerf it Link-Era started a new mechanic of monsters creating extra zones, designed solely to handle the pendulum problem and then it escalated again, as this mechanic was just as broken generic bosses spawned everywhere more and more hand traps, flood gates and generic bosses where created to deal with the already existing generic hand traps, flood gates and generic bosses and slowly but surely this two player game deteriorated into a single player game where a turn takes 20 minutes, summons one half of the deck and draws the other half while completely locking the opponent from playing turn 1 players started only playing half a deck for the other half was reserved solely for generic hand traps and flood gates and all end boards started looking the same the amalgamization of meta decks started getting so bad that "archetype decks" often only played only one singular if maybe two to three archetype cards and the rest of the 40 card deck was just the same in every single deck list Now we just go from tier-0 format to tier-0 format And my question is, what's the point of playing a non-rotating card game if every three months a new tier-0 deck spawns and forces you to trash your old deck and buy the new one? You could play a rotating game and literally have the same That's why I think there's only the 2 mentioned solutions Either all generic overpowered cards get banned, wich would result in a hilariously large banlist with thousands of cards Or they restart the game A complete overhaul A new more balanced game with clear rules and clear effect-phrasing from the start that has a way bigger focus on balance than before, heavily restricting boss monsters to their archetypes similair to rush duel
I only (attempt to) play competitively on Master Duel, and on there I’ve found Ash Blossom isn’t that big of a threat. Whenever I play it, my opponent almost always has a bunch of other plays they can do and is still able to end on a crazy end board. Having one or two negates barely makes a dent in most deck’s combos, at least from what I’ve seen. So I think it’s fine to stay.
One thing I would like to see if for the to put a hard limit on the amount of time you can summon per turn. Make it 10. Most decks can make a decent board within 10 summons. It will slow the game down. Also long turns will become a thing of the past.
Honestly just change the quick effect property of hand traps to only be able to be used on the opponents turn. That way your opponent cant handtrap you after theyve set up their board
Hand traps shouldn’t be a 1 for 1 for anything. There is no reason why a card in your hand should be able to counter a card on your opponents field for no real cost.
4:00 While it is true that Ash is a cause of cards setting from Deck, I think it opens an awesome design space. Imagine decks that could interact with the Set card on the open window before it activates? Like, cool, a Rota that beats Ash but loses to MST, that’s pretty neat imo. I think that this exploration of how cards can be tutored is awesome for the game.
that "cool" interation of losing to mst relies on you going first BEFORE they set the card. If the person setting a card and not searching it is going first, that means its unstoppable because no handtrap can beat it. Then if that same person has ash along with a big board, you lose almost automatically unless you play stun
@@Sp3llmen That’s very true, but if we’re looking at design space and how Diabellstar circumvents Ash, it wouldnt be a stretch to hope for a future handtrap like card that could pop cards at Infinite Impermanence timing. Like Typhoon, but maybe more applications, like how Ash has multiple triggers. Very theoretical on my part, but if we’re talking about design, I think cards like this would be a logical step! MST would most certainly be too slow, but this one wouldnt. I used MST as a catch all “pop a backrow” term; i didnt mean like the actual quick play spell, sorry!
Actually, hand traps and board breakers belong to the same group, and I prefer calling it Turn 2 Protection. They introduced the rule not to draw during the first turn in 2014 to keep going first in check. It didn't suffice. After Ash Blossom, we also had Nibiru and Dark Ruler No More in 2019. The result? Going first continued to give a huge advantage for the entirety of 2020. Because there is no ceiling on special summoning, spell activations, etc.; this is very difficult to win in this game after losing the die roll. Engine cards are mostly useless against an established board. Only Turn 2 Protection cards keep going first in check.
Ash Blossom is the definition of "necessary evil" in Yu-Gi-Oh. There's no getting around it. You either play it and/or a similar card that slows your opponent's combo roll, or you just lose. Banning this card is absolutely the wrong move to make. If anything, you could errata Ash to where she can negate anything that would make a card leave the Main Deck in any way on resolution, including being placed in the S/T zone, and she'd still be fine at 3.
Droll is worse. Ash isn't even super strong because most competent decks can extend past an ash, as such it helps slow down decks forcing them to end on weaker boards rather than just end their turn, whereas droll is beyond brutal. And you need to weaken the opponent, modern decks are designed to completely steamroll you if their combo goes off even midrangey decks will end on 3 disruptions and crackback for t3 otk or control decks will set up a shitload of advantage ensuring they outgrind you over time. Ash being able to counter most tutor from the deck type effects makes it wellrounded and ensures no matter what you're up against you at least have something you can use to at least have a fighting chance going 2nd.
I think instead of banning a bunch of cards a better option would be to make a summon limit to the game… like normally you could only normal summon one monster and in the beginning you could special summon any many monsters as you wanted cause there wasn’t that many ways you could fill the broad but there wasn’t much purpose to that unless you were attacking to take out your opponent, no real boss monsters that have built in negates . So if the rules were changed to allow one or two normal summons but only three to five special summons , it would allow you to pull out your combo cards and set up just one boss monster and would stop these 30ty minute turns.
I’ve been playing since the beginning, and the rules have already changed before besides new types of monsters that need new rules , there was no limit to how many cards you could put in your deck and at one point you could have 30ty side deck monsters. Imagine having 30ty side deck limit now the game would be nuts lol so sometimes the rules need to change with the power creep.
This might be a hard idea to implement, or just too much work on Konami's part, but I think banning Ash would allow for archetypes to have more built-in handtraps that are healthier for the game. In general, I think we need to move just a little bit away from "negate! negate! negate!!!!" and more in the direction of other mechanics/gimmicks in Yugioh like dodging effects. There's no turning the clock on handtraps - the speed of the game just wouldn't allow it. So just make playing on your opponent's turn the norm.
I was gonna say that a cheap I wouldn't want to get rid of a cheap and non offensive staple until I realized I was calling a 4-5$ piece of card board cheap.... Great vid always chief
I'm all for the banning of Ash Blossom until they make fusion summoning inherent like Synchro, XYZ, Pendulum, and Links. Fusions have to rely 90% on a card resolving vs. rely on summoning the necessary fusion materials onto the field to inherently summon fusion monsters via tribute like the other ED mechanics. In other words, Konami should allow inherent tributes for fusion summons so that we are able to special summon fusion monsters without need of spells/effects or just treat the fusion spell/effect as an inherent summon to which Handtraps and Omni-negates can't stop like the other ED mechanics.
Honestly if Konami not just limit cards but out banned the problematic cards I would enjoy the game. However that would be silly because there will always be a problematic card in yu gi oh no matter is old or new. Although ash has been in the meta untouched for along time I don't agree with a banned but a limit should be fair. Handtraps need to be balanced.(And yes I know that's impossible because Yu-Gi-Oh loves it's power creep but it can also lead games to it's downfall)
My problem with ash is that it hurts weaker decks more than the stronger ones due to the stronger ones being pushed by Konami to be able to play though things like ash. Honestly to keep a card like ash and all the cards that are too strong that ash stops the game needs a core change. Dealing 8k dmg is too easy. Summoning boss monsters is too easy. And board breakers are too easy to use. Almost nothing requires any sort of commitment. The only mechanic that has a downside at the moment is traps and even those are getting out of hand with some decks and staples.
I really fucking hate that generic handtraps work for the going first player. Like, as if going first wasn't already enough of an advantage, now you can also weaponize your defensive cards on turn two in addition to the 15 interruptions you set up. It's why I don't buy the "Maxx C helps turn 2 players" argument because it also helps turn 1 players. Actually, I've been thinking about how to errata Maxx C to make it fair. And I think I came up with a solution. Step 1. Make it function like Droll. As in, you can chain it to a SS but only get a draw after that SS. And Step 2. Make the draw happen in the end phase. That way it really only benefits you for comebacks. In general we need to nerf cards for going first. Maybe we should design every handtrap like Imperm.
Banning Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring(along with many monster hand traps) and then errata it to where you also need to discard a monster of the same type/attribute as the handtrap you are trying to play can help balance a lot of cards better, while also locking you into summoning monster of that 1 type or attribute until the end of your next turn, forcing players into playing mono type/attribute decks if they REALLY want to play those handtraps, and you would also need to dedicate so many resources just to play 1 card that may or may not have synergies with the deck that you're are trying to play. And yes you could also apply this to Maxx "C" and Earth Insect decks would see more competitive play. Though people who ENTIRELY LOATHES Weevil Underwood as a character would have mixed feelings on that... And imagine having to send Light attribute monsters to graveyard just to activate Effect Veiler, Honest, Ghost Ogre & Snow Rabbit, and Nibiru. Light Decks would end up seeing more competitive play as a result. Yes, even Blue-Eyes and Galaxy-Eyes... though they would still brick like crazy though... Zombie Toolbox control would see even more competitive play with Ash Blossom/Ghost Belle needing at either a monster of the same attribute as them, or another Zombie type monster to even play them, and Zombie decks typically don't care if they mostly have recursion of some kind. Trap cards with graveyard effects would see more play if Infinite Impermanence required you to send another trap from to grave, though that may end up requiring re-balancing trap cards with graveyard effects as a result, and on a case by case basis.
''Yes, even Blue-Eyes and Galaxy-Eyes... though they would still brick like crazy though...'' They should just remove tribute summon like in Duel Links.
In a card game with no mulligans and 5 card opening hands, trading 2 for 1 just to stop a single effect or card activation would be brutally bad and probably unplayable unless it consistently prevents you from losing the game. Discard for cost would be better suited for the turn ending handtraps like Droll/Shifter or to a lesser extent Nibiru. I think a better solution is you have to reveal another card in your hand that shares a card type/attribute etc. with either the hand trap itself or with the card you are trying to negate. Then you still get the deckbuilding restriction without making the cards unplayable.
hand traps are a horrible way to fix the game. relying on a percent chance to have access to a mechanic that prevents you from auto losing feels just so so bad.
Indeed, a 'just draw the out' phenomenon that gives you the illusion of balance, but in reality it does bigger harm than good. Ash blossom is a symptom of a bad managed game, it shouldn't exist, neither the reasons that was created for.
Yet they design cards that ignore those handtraps they created, for instance diabellstar effect of just setting a card, like the player doesn't have to search for the card to find it.
I think the fix for it is more archtype based hand traps, obviously havnis was broken in tear format but because it was the only card that existed like that, I'd we had like 8 decks that did it it might actually be fun
@dxpope7037 yeah it's called power creep ash is 7 years old now
@AstralLaVista Hand traps were supposed to knock wombo combo decks down a peg, how does designing around your supposed solution make any sense? You're intentionally creating an arms race of 'problem/solution' but in the worst way possible. You have to make better hand traps to combat the new shit, then new shit that cares even less about hand traps, until everything just says 'your opponent cannot activate cards in response to this effect' or something to that effect. Tenpai and Gimmick Puppets are already toying with the idea that part of your strategy is being completely ignorant and immune to disruption.
Bro is literally mirrorjade in a human suit 😂
I actually just rediscover the fact that I have an ash blossom irl when I was going through some old cards, it didn't make an impression on my brain back then and its funny now
Plus, nice to hear someone else who agrees that this game needs to slow down. Bring fun back to the game
Game is fun though
The fun never left.
You're 8 years too late. Quit the game like I did.
The game is really fun. I just want some tweaks
Or, get this:
You can have new, popular or already desired formats get implemented alongside fair ban lists and decks that are fully supported without being broken which you can actually have fun by playing.
As an example, magic the gathering has commander, tell me why wouldn't you want to hypothetically have a 4 player yugioh game? That'd be awesome!
Another thing to consider, imagine a world without Baronne de fleur or whatever other annoying monster.
You know what card doesn't lose to Ash? The Cyber Commander! It has 750 attack points and does nothing :D
Also Venus
Stephx you make us all so sad lmao
The best pro of banning Ash Blossom is that I'm a Branded player
same here here!!
This is like hearing all the people begging Konami to ban maxx c in Master duel, I'm like: "please do so lmao"
I am down for trying to slow down the game a bit
Same, I want OTK decks to be a thing, which means that not every deck should be able to OTK.
They tried with the introduction of links and they failed. Yugioh is at a point it to late for it to slow down
@@jjasukaThe idea for links was a good thing, implemented horribly.
They slowed down the game by restricting extra deck summons only to introduce link climbing and link swapping with sky strikers. Konami went against their own design philosophy and look where we ended up, extra combos into full end board on turn 1.
I used to think Ash Blossom is a necessary evil to stop toxic combos from ending on oppressive boards. But the fact is that nowadays, all the strongest decks just bypass Ash in some way. As a result, Ash is only good against decks that are Rogue tier or lower.
This is what makes Ash a problem card: every deck can use it, but the weaker decks are hit significantly harder. Ash makes the strong decks stronger and the weak decks weaker. This is unhealthy for the game.
Not to mention the way Ash is worded makes it way more powerful than people realize. "Negate an effect that *includes* one of the following" allows it to negate effects that don't search just because searching was mentioned somewhere.
For example, an effect has a choice of A, B, or C, where A is a search but you choose C which is destroying a card, the effect can get negated by Ash despite the fact you're not even searching.
Or an effect summons from GY then has optional dump from deck to GY, the summon gets negated by Ash even if you choose not to dump.
Lastly, Ash is just unfun to play against. Her (and her less popular sister Ghost Belle) are just straight negates, and that's lame as hell. Good handtrap design punishes your opponent for overextending. Think Nibiru or Droll. Bad handtrap design is outright negating the first, and possibly only, play your opponent might have.
Now of course if Ash gets banned, there's quite a few cards that also need to get banned. But to me, this is a good thing because Ash was a band aid fix for those cards to begin with.
TLDR; Ash deserves to be banned, not because it's strong, but because it kills weaker decks, it's poorly worded and as a result negates things it shouldn't be able to, and it's just a flat out boring card.
Exactly my point. Personally I prefer it limited, for the decks that can search it as an end board piece.
This 100%. A lot of people keep saying the "necessary evil" argument, but that just lead us to the position we're in today. Ash was so powerful it made the meta decks have to get more powerful and it warped card design, as BreadBoy pointed out.
i appreciate ash because its necessary to interrupt modern decks. but you're right, if we removed ash, they'd be forced to stop designing around it and/or hit the problematic cards that ash keeps in check
and cards are already beginning to power creep around it.. i dread the day that ash becomes obsolete
So, same argument as maxx c? Lmao
@@neonoah3353basically yes, the only funny thing about tcg not having maxx c are all the players eternally crying about coin toss formats that also are for maxx c staying banned and also want it banned in master duel. It's just really funny and I kind of want Konami to do what such people want.
I kept getting copyright striked that's why the video has a bunch of random unrelated gameplay in the background to get around this trash UGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
What are the copyright claims based on?
@@jahshinbennett9303 look at my community note lol. it is unreal
@@BreadBoyWeeb alright
Ghost Ogre has always been my bestie
@@BreadBoyWeeb im glad it seems to be working out now
In 2024 ash is not overpowered, it's just good and ultra generic. Its like Dr. Doom in Marvel vs Capcom 3 or Landorus therion from Pokemon a few years back. Banning it at this point would do a lot more harm than good unless, as you mentioned, a massive number of other cards were also banned, probably a thousand or more. Since that kind of banlist will literally never happen, we kinda need to just accept what we have.
Dr Doom is one of the most overpowered characters in that game so it is comparable
Fam, Hidden Missiles is a cancer to that game.
Why should one button stop the entire flow of the game?
You just cuz it's possible to dodge it doesn't mean that it should be there
???????
I played Pokémon vgc and UMvC3 back in the day, and let me tell you, those aren't the comparisons you'd give to advocate for Ash being fair. Far from it.
And it's funny cuz I always make the comparison that this game used to be Street Fighter and now it's become Marvel where player 2 doesn't get to play
The Errata youve presented is legit a perfect idea and is rather well thought out.
But ofcourse ash in the tcg feels better, but evem if the errata were ro hit rhe tcg i wouldnt be mad
Con 3: the feet weirdos would have an all out war to find a new foot fetish icon.
i pray you become more popular
Gotta put in that work, your support means the world. Also is your pfp Bandit Keinjaku? This is the hardest fucking PFP I’ve seen in my comments
Ironically, the term generic cards like staples and boss monsters goes both ways. Not only are they good against almost everything, they are also super boring and exactly that, generic. Handtraps, generic boss monsters, and the speed are the main things that kill it for me. Having 4 handtraps and 1 starter should not be a thing whatsoever.
For anyone who is sick of stale formats, I recommend Edison format. Trust me, it’s a lot more fun.
P.S: I would just ban ash for all of the Branded Fusions not resolved. Just obnoxious. Interesting idea with errataing the card. I think it could work.
Agree, 4 handtraps and 1 starter for FTK/OTK should not be a thing. I just want to say that yugioh have very few options for formats to play so playing Edison isn't the real solution, if your want to play a mid Deck that is 3-4 years old for example, your only option is the competitive 2024 tier zero format. The tcg needs more popular formats (or fix the game).
hot take here
Banning Ash would have been a good thing back then when SHE destroyed the meta, she and all the other handtraps like her
Yugioh has scalated to this degree of powercreep because of handtraps, and now the power train has no brakes
just as you mentioned, design space has been revolving around handtraps for quite some time, and things have been getting out of *hand* enough to make them a necessary evil
back then i sighed and rolled my eyes when i heard about handtraps, now i cannot imagine the levels of absurdity the game would have without them
the power in the game has escalated to a degree that it can't go back without some serious rules change and a considerable shift in the design direction of cards
That's not a hot take, just a wrong take. Combos were already accelerating to a ridiculous pace before Ash was released, and handtraps are an interactive way to slow those down.
Remember that Ash released AFTER full power Spyral and Zoodiac, who I'll remind you are decks that are STILL POWERFUL.
I think when Komoney started to design archetypes that play around ash is when all hope for its ban was lost.
@@Rynjinivar Full powered Spyral didn't happen until a few sets after Ash released. But I agree with you in concept. Ash was created as a hand trap that could deal with escalating power on cards that weren't monsters on the field. Cards like Foolish Burial, Emergency Teleport, Card of Demise, Desires, and Grass jump to mind as potential design issues being considered when Ash was being designed. It seemed built to solve problems the then current suite of hand traps couldn't deal with. Even had they not ramped power creep up in the years after Ash would still probably be a perfectly healthy card.
@@Rynjinivar combos were accelerating at a ridiculous pace, and then making Ash gave a justification to keep making them, instead of trying to solve the problem that was already popping up
just as Breadboy said, yes, there was a problem with combo decks like Zoodiac, but once Ash got released all design space revolved around her
and now Konami is doing things to power creep even Ash, with Diabellstar bringing spells directly to the field, but its too late to go back now, because the minimum bar has been set very high
@@DragoSmash
You say that like they're not going to keep monetizing power creep _without_ Ash. That's the business model Konami runs this game on, they make broken shit and hit older cards to force people to buy the new stuff, they do fuck all about how broken the new stuff is, then they hit all the stuff they released and put out even more broken shit. That's been the name of the game ever since Critter Format.
Yes. The bad part of yugioh not having set rotation is that if a card is good enough it can last forever in the meta. Im tired of seeing all deck in the meta be the same handtraps plus whatever archetype. Weve been in a handtrap tier zero for years but nobody has noticed.
I’ve Noticed! And Hand Traps have both been Beneficial, And Annoying!
The Worst Part is that Ghost Orge and Ash made even More of These DAMN THINGS!!!
I seriously want Different Meta Formats, especially when we look back at early 2014 and 2015!
Saying we have a handtrap tier 0 is like saying we have a spell tier 0.
You’ve literally just described a card mechanic and said “we see it too much it’s tier zero” might as well say we have a special summon tier zero
That is not what "tier 0" means.
We have been in a meta where handtraps are the best staples.
Staples still exist in set rotations. The solution is just banning garbage like Baronne or Zeus who serve as staple, win condition and boardbreaker.
I'm glad someone brought up that Ash does more than just stop a search. I auto-play 3 copies of this little shit because I've never had a game where it wasn't live at least ONCE. I genuinely want to know why they thought stopping the search wasn't enough, you could've put each effect on a separate card and they'd be played still.
There may be a way to kill "Maxx C" without resorting to the banlist.
Suggestion: Make Ritual, Fusion, Synchros, Xyz, Pendulum, LINK summoning classified as their own separate summoning methods
Reasoning: This makes the chances people will "special summon" more rare, especially since nowadays decks are bound to "use the extra deck to help with their plays. Due to the rarity of special summoning (and I do believe the effect of '"Maxx C" lasts until the end of the turn), it would've been more of a gamble to pull of Maxx C, depending on the deck. Thus duelists will eventually have to play less copies of it since it wastes precious space in the deck.
Considerations: By making the extra deck summoning methods (and rituals and pendulums) their own separate thing, it does however ruin some decks as they do rely on effects when "special summoned" even though they were not in accordance to my suggestion.
Benefits: "Maxx C" wouldn't be very troubling in Master Duel and it wouldn't be troubling as well in the OCG, unless the people here LOVE "Maxx C"
this breaks so many other cards, maxx c isnt the only card that cares about special summons
I like the idea, maybe add mana quark as part of special summoning where types of more difficult summoning like ritual are less costly, easier types like link are more costly and tax summoning across types if they are not part of your archetype
I think this would slow down the game in general, perhaps have it as an experimental format
better option would be, to just limit the times you are allowed to special summon each turn. like a max of 5-6 special summons max per turn! atleast this way, you wouldnt screw up 10000 other cards, like your retarded suggestion!
@@lanius1084 You'd be right, but at least "Maxx C" wouldn't be a huge problem
@@southafrica405limiting decks based on their archetype, or type and attribute is definitely a way to balance. There will always be a broken deck every format, but it does cool down the game a bit and narrows decks to rely more on their own stuff that was actually made for them to play.
ngl i cant really imagine a yugioh at its current pace without ash blossom... decks like branded just getting to pop off for almost free, Altergeist ALWAYS getting that search for multifaker if not just having it off rip and getting a free silq during your turn, dinos... getting to pop da baby for da baby lesss goooo like misc is at 3 WITHOUT EVER SEEING MISC... Gren maju pumping their boss by 4k AND getting to draw 2? Ash is like fucking batman tbh we need ash whether we like it or not
We should start baing barone, apollousa and maybe borreload savage, the real problem is generic boss monsters.
Dinos dont really Care about Ash If you got a xenoground also in your Hand but nowadays ppl Play Like 24 handtraps wich is absolutely crazy and super unfun to Play against for Branded Just Bann the stupid Fusion and WHO the hell plays alter even dzeef doesnt Play that anymore
@gab4198 Borreload at least requires some semblance of cost in the forms of playing at least 2 links. So you take 3 ED slots and not just be splashed in every deck.
@@randombadchannel8700 plus savage loses to crow and bystials cause Most links are Dark and crow bannishes anything anyways thats why i dont even think about playing savage anymore. Even in Decks Like pend where you Always Play beyond cause its Just a broken Link two wich you Link away anyways for a Link 3 geting it bannishes by a bystials is super frustrating savage is Just a blue eyes then. The real pain in ygo is Baron the Card has basically No downside and is way to easy to summon
We're in a snake eye format, altergeist is the least of your worries...
Maybe this is something the community should take the lead on instead of putting the pressure on Konami; turning it into some kind of experimental format. Create a custom format where the generic handtraps are banned, sparing maybe Droll (to keep things from getting too out of hand), Crow, and Veiler for targeted interaction.
We all know that this will allow some decks to get completely out of hand, but that's the point. Allow these decks to bubble to the surface and figure out the best way to approach nerfing these decks, then let the next decks bubble up, repeating the process until the game has been slowed down sufficiently.
Ash is too much of a filter card that Konami seems to have given their job of proactively keeping the game manageable. It's created the game state of either handtrapping your opponent into oblivion, drawing the out, or doing neither and just simply losing. This is a problem that needs to be solved, but there is no broad stroke way to easily solve it. It will take dedicated time and effort, something that the community has plenty of. Yugitubers would be very effective in this regard as they have large followings and can leverage that to try and affect change, hopefully for the better.
People organize tournaments like that all the time, mostly via master duel. A format where all the top handtraps are banned would be interesting considering there are tons of handtraps that barely see any play (because who bothers with stuff like gnomaterial even if it's broken Vs one deck when ash is good against anything?).
Yes, it should be banned……..IF decks at this point weren’t designed around it
If we ban ash then stopping decks from popping off would be so hard at this point
Either it should have been banned a long time ago or we lower the power of decks universally
EDIT: okay now that I actually watched the video lol. I have to say that I LOVE the errata idea
Decks are designed around Maxx "C" too, that's not really much of an argument.
@@four-en-tee But they aren’t tho-
If decks were designed with Maxx-C in mind they would attempt to special summon 1-2 times maximum for full combo
OR decks would have ways around MaxC
Neither are true so-
Okay there are rarely a few decks that only summon 1-2 monsters but the odd thing is that those decks are either bad, don’t see place where MaxC is legal, or they are so rare that using them as an example of “designed around MaxC” is a stretch
@@four-en-teeFuck no they aren't. What game are you playing?
@gabrielsalahi3656 it's less, "archetypes are designed around max C" and more "we can make this huge wombo combo because max C keeps it in check".
@@randombadchannel8700 again- that’s not true tho
Whenever you look at any OCG tournament or MasterDuel what happens is you combo anyways regardless of MaxC. Any combo deck literally ever that’s good in the TCG is also good in the OCG and MasterDuel
In what way shape or form does MaxC keep in check combo decks? It’s never once gatekept a deck. And whenever it’s played you combo through it anyways since you Auto-Lose if you don’t regardless of what deck you’re playing
I dont know about "banned" but its very RARE to not play Ash since almost every deck has a Stratos. It was only in the Year of Fire format where people think about siding Ash to avoid being Hiita'd. If they do hit it in some way, it will be like a Upstart to 1 limitation Konami TCG did in 2016.
God the Zoo era was so awful
It would be better if they banned her and focused more on handtraps for estabilished boards or protection, this single card makes an uncountable number of archetypes unplayable just because they need to resolve this one effect to do anything.
It’s only like that because Konami wants it that way
Most of the new archetypes are placing cards on the s/t zone specifically to play around ash
The next era of power creep is going to be brutal and even ash won’t be able to deal with it
There are still effects in Snake Eyes that make you go neg 2 if hit by Ash Blossom. Power creep is there but Ash is still a good card in general.
Oh, yes. Electrumite places card from deck to extra deck, then add it from extra deck to the hand. Clever move, Konami.
@@mfznal-hafidz8592 that's a good thing.
*Laughs in casual gameplay* I think I speak for everyone that plays decks from before 2015 when I say I agree.
I play Yugioh protagonist decks down to the most optimized list by an actual judge. And then I go to locals and spend the 45 minute wait time per game watching the other player take combos that empty out their extra deck and half their main deck onto the field, but unless you have numerous hand traps, the opponent will have a field with anywhere between 1 card that I can't touch or a full field that no matter what I use, there's ten negates for it.
I've played against Kashtira burn decks three times! This game is not fun for returning or new players. I genuinely don't know how anyone can get into this game from scratch.
My three copies of secret rare gnome material are waiting
Can't wait for the eventual D Shifter video.
As long as the gy is a second hand for powerful meta decks, shifter will be necessary.
@@gaaraofthefunk265 As long as the GY is a second hand for most decks like it has been for most of the game's lifespan Shifter will remain a problem card.
I think other handtraps should start seeing play. And that can only be done by hitting the one in the top.
The irony is they aren't being played because they don't hit or interrupt the decks the way it needs to. Ash stops special summoning from the deck or tutors. Droll stops tutors hard, but at a slight downside of both players but does not stop setting from deck or special summoning from deck. Ghost Ogre pops a card during activation but doesn't negate it. Sure you might stop someone from synchro or link or XYZ plays with it but it doesn't always interrupt if say, that card has some "When X is destroyed" clause or "You can do this from the graveyard clause." Veiler stops an effect on the field but only for monsters. If their combo piece starts from the hand, veiler is useless but it's fine to stop saying Baronne or Apollusa from disrupting your plays. Battle traps aren't relevant in a best of three but might be Ok In stall strategies in MD which is best of one. Gorz hasn't been relevant with negates running around and with OTK strategies that sometimes makes a 10k monster.
So unless there's a replacement that can be on par with the likes of the ones that are used. Or the game changes so much that it's slowed down considerably. It's unlikely that the most used handtraps will be banned.
100%. I think the default number of handtraps you'll want to run in your decklist shouldn't be changing. It only depends on the meta at this point. They can't steal games by themself. But instead are a way to keep you in safe position. I did play more than edison so i do know there are tons of other ones than fits that role and not reliant on your battle phase.
@@redouanalami5115 "Please run 20 of the same cards in your main deck, and at least 5 of the same cards of your extra deck and ruin creativity!" is all you coulda said tbh.
@@John-ii6he yea so the same number.
@@John-ii6he i didn't make the game btw.
To answer the title, no, but it should be limited.
MD is weird. I'd be quite disappointed if they outright ban the roach without ever having tried to nerf it. Would be a good time for them to remember it's a digital game.
It really just needs 5 words printed on it: "While you control no cards"
@@Heyhowsitgoin999but it would still be abusable by decks that can have 15+ handtraps like snake eye or tempai. The lower ceiling decks going first would still loose
@@Heyhowsitgoin999actual shit way of errataing the roach instead of giving it d shifter's clause that you need an empty gy
@@southafrica405those decks can already play that many handtraps regardless and you lose against them regardless of them having the roach or not. People really need to look at stats with more attention, which is a good thing master duel gave us. It's an observable fact that the roach benefits the player going second more than it does the player going first. The win rate increase is not huge, but that's because there are currently too many cards that stop the roach and it's precisely those decks who benefit from that. The tcg without the roach became a sad thing where the first player to combo after playing through all the handtraps wins. It's just everyone throwing handtraps at each other until the other player is left without plays, whoever draws the best engine card then pops off. And post siding the guy going first slaps in 6 floodgates and you're left with 2-4 cards in hand, if you opened handtraps, and have to contend with summon limit or anti spell, very fun and interactive.
Roach needs an errata that your opponent takes no damage till the end of the next turn to making passing when you get maxx c'ed a realistic option. Currently your choices are "play the game and get OTKed because they drew too m uch" or "pass turn so they don't draw too much and get OTKed". Maxx C is essentially "discard this card, OTK your opponent" if they don't have ash blossom. It's the worst fucking design lol
Ash blossom has been on an all time low in terms of effectiveness. In a meta where Maxx C is banned and branded is going to be butchered by the next banlist, Ash serves no purpose besides the "Oh well I got 3 slots for a handtrap, might as well use ash." So I don't think it needs to be banned. Cards that need to be banned is stuff like shifter and droll.
At best limited to 1 or banned outright at worst
Personally, I want decks to be pure archetype/engine, no bs hand traps, no barrone, just pure satisfying back and forth (I also want dinosaur beat down to be meta again)
Limit all hand traps to 1, that'd be interesting
Average branded player
I hadn't considered that Ash was something of a floodgate. To that end, I do think it's lazy of Konami to design OCG archetypes around Maxx C as if it were a skill.
I think something like 5D's speed duels would be ideal; the card games on motorcycles version. It's kind of a misnomer; really, it slows the duel down.
I believe that there are a LOT of decks that would flourish with the absence of that feet fuck. Hits to cetain decks must be made of course, but thats a risk im willing to take if it means that i will face iff against more decks
Aint no way bro is coming at ash when imperm is just as guilty and these handtraps are the only play you have going second against basically every deck
What I appreciate about this channel is how you ignore the current problem of the week is and instead focus on the overarching issues and how we can improve the game overall instead of just putting a bandage over something that is going to be irrelevant when the next set releases. Ash Blossom is a card that I have taken issue with for years now. This is going to be a hot take but Ash deserves to go. It negates three different types of effects that are all common. It is also impossible to dodge the negation as it does not target. Ash is too versatile and difficult to interact with. Compare it to Veiler for example. Veiler only works on monsters that are on the field and it has to target the monster that you want to negate which opens the possibility of counterplay. Ash has no such downside.
If Konami wants to help against trap decks like lab and they limit ash in some way they should bring red reboot back to at least 1
yes it should...at this point it feels like a solemn judgment from the hand ngl
...Solemn judgement is an omni-negate.
@@seldomn06 yeah...i said (feels)...searching is a key thing that every deck does...so negating that feels like an omni-negate
What needs to be banned are the consistent Omni-Negate cards. Konami needs to stop making powerful cards splashable for every deck.
one thing I always find annoying about the idea of nerfing hand traps to be useable only when you don’t control cards (ive heard this idea for maxx “c” where people want it only useable if you control no monsters) is the idea of you getting handtrapped at a weak point in your combo then your opponent having a turn but whatever you had isn’t live now, this ash errata is better than alot of these ideas cause if your opponent does stop your turn you aren’t necessarily dead in the water if all you have is an ash
I really don't think Ash Blossom is a problem card. Sure you can use it against pretty much every deck and it will always do something but nearly no good deck loses to 1 Ash Blossom.
In the tcg Ash Blossom sometimes also falls out of the meta depending on what the best deck is (for example in the Tearlament tier 0 meta).
(I am pretty sure you don't really have to play Ash in the current tcg meta as well.)
The main reason why Ash is at a near 100% playrate in Master Duel is that it counters Maxx "C" the actual best card that is legal in any format.
I know this video is about the tcg and yeah even in the tcg Ash sees a lot of play because of how versatile Ash is but that is the main reason why its played it always does _something_ but on its own 1 Ash Blossom doesn't actually stop a Snake-Eyes or a Fire King or a Kashtira or a Plant Link or a Dragon Link deck.
Ash is nice it always does something and combined with other handtraps it can stop a good deck from doing what it wants to do but not on its own.
I don't mind banning Ash simply because it is played so much since such a long time but we shouldn't pretend like its an actual problem card imo
The first quote that you said is the problem.
If a deck is determined to be good by How well it plays around Ash blossom is a problem. Cuz something else is determining how good it is.
Example, magical musketeers is a great deck. But most of the time you have to start with Casper or Starfire to start playing right? One Ash turns that whole thing off. Whereas that deck has a functionality to compete against every deck because it has tools to deal with everydeck. But it can't even start playing because there's three Ash in the game In every deck
Ash does not serve a real purpose in the tcg anymore, except keeping in check low-mid tier decks. Elite tier decks cannot be stopped by a single ash blossom without using 2-3 other handtraps on top. So do we really need to keep in check non-top tier decks? Do we really need to force a handtrap heavy format for the tcg or there is another way to deal with the powercreep? Or maybe variety is bad for the game so we don't want elite decks to get occasionally outshined?
Ash serves an extremely important purpose that other hand traps can match. It's a catch-all hand trap for dealing with advantage generating effects that aren't tied to monsters on field. It being a counter to Pots, E-Teles, and Foolish Burials gives all decks the ability to trade one for one with these cards which the other hand traps can't do unless it's weird like Nadir Servant and can be Belle'd. One for one trades are so much healthier than something like Droll which gives them their search but then ends the turn.
Indeed, Ash is being a counter to Pots, E-tele, foolish burials and basically every card that touches the Deck, including all basics in-archetype searchs that 90% of the existed Decks desperately needs to work. I agree that the 1 for 1 aspect of Ash is at least a balanced one. Personally, I believe banning Ash is a bit to harsh, limiting it along with the Pots, E-teles, foolish burials and any other potentially problematic card is the way to go. Also, I would like to allow Decks that can search it to have it as a end board piece.
I see you saw the mbt video where he mentioned ash should be banned
I feel like these questions are just a circular conversation. Bann that card and a combo can actually finish, ban that card and the combo can't be used, and so on. I watched the vid for the KHs music.
Something that I think would be nice is if hand traps were a part of your specific deck. I really love that different decks do completely different things, and I would like it if hand traps fed into that. So, instead of generic Ash Blossom, adamancipator gets a way to manipulate what card they can search, while kashtira makes them banish it face down instead.
If hand traps became deck exclusive, I can imagine some crazy stuff coming out too. Like, a zombie deck that has a card similar to maxx c except it mills instead. Or charmers getting a hand trap that lets them set and flip a monster.
Heck, if they figured out how to word it, they could even make an archetype who's entire gimmick was going second, who was able to bypass the limitations of other archetype's handtraps.
If decks started having stuff they did that was unique going second, it might not feel as boring and lame to do so, and the power of your hand traps would genuinely be a boon. Yugioh's kinda gotten to a point where archetypes are the center of deckbuilding, so they should just lean into it.
If hand traps get banned going second is as good as forfeit
It kinda already is on Masterduel.
We are already at that point. We've been at that point for a while now.
Some are limited I think rest unbanned in master duel. I am new to this correct me if I am wrong
@@arrownoirlol, no it's not and a big part of it is that master duel actually has maxx c at 3.
It's hard to say, but I will say this. I think ash's usage mostly comes down to believing that it's that good.
The card undoubtedly has it's moments, but it's not always that terribly good. Obviously right now it's mid at best, detrimental at worst because if snake-eye, but even aside from that, there's very few situations where it's impactful enough to stop a deck.
It can stop branded, and it can hurt Labrynth, but outside of that I can't think of many other decks that were absolutely ruined by it.
Talking about one of it's worst formats, PHHY format.
You could ash wraitsoth, but it doesn't matter because they already have a Kash in hand. You could ash unicorn to potentially stop them from getting to birth or theosis, you could ash theosis itself, but they may be able to extend anyways because you decided to save your ash for theosis and they now have Birth.
Let's not forget how ashing unicorn or theosis also usually meant losing a card in your extra deck.
And lastly, lets not forget about about Talents. Thanks for the draw 2/confiscation.
banning ash or not is rather a qustion of is handtrap a design yu gi oh should take or not (and thats an idea for another video)
i kind of wish konami had promoted speed duel format more bc it's the first time we've actually had a format other than standard and it was a really fun and different version of the game and they actually made perfectly ultimate great moth playable
I would say the contrary, we need even more handtraps, not just for especific situations but for generic ones that also work with the kind of deck you are playing, maybe a handtrap that negate handtraps or something like that, that would be ok.
Spend almost 500h on this game and the more I see your videos the more I think that the game is actually dead. What do you think ?
Nah, yugioh is flawed but calling it "dead" is a bit too hyperbolic. The game is still quite popular, fun and has a good future imo.
It's a zombie that's for sure. And it's not going to get better because Konami doesn't care. There was a point where they could have reversed course without having to back too far out but they've let it go far too long without course correction. It's fucked.
@@geek593 I think there have been some amazing formats in the last few years I really enjoyed. I can't be that pessimistic. I really liked DUNE format, Ish tear, swordsoul branded, tri zoo format. They are still cooking for me
@@BreadBoyWeeb Yeah maybe I m too harsh here... But with my sky striker deck I meet some issu to fight against meta.It's not impossible but just very very hard so I dont know anymore. I m thinking of getting a labrynth deck maybe ... I dont know what to do with this game anymore
@@BreadBoyWeeb The exception proves the rule unfortunately. The amount of fun I had in the formats with matchups I enjoyed was wiped away by intensely diseased card design. Personally I loved DIFO format under the specific lens of Branded vs. Swordsoul game 1 as long as there was no mained Rivalry or Mine. Game 2 and 3 ended up being unplayable dogshit because floodgates, ASF, and Dimensional Barrier were sided in. All the fun of two decks that didn't care if they went first or second clashing on an even playing field evaporated. Then you look at the table next to you and see Floo vs. Drytron and somehow Drytron is winning because they played Mystic Mine in the main and past them someone is on minute 30 of his Brave Rose Dragon Tenyi combo which ends on a protected Scythe lock.
The little oases of good gameplay are rare and accidental.
Hell no (i havent finished the video)
Same
I appreciate the honesty LMAO
God how can one man have so many BASED takes in this short span of time?
Literally the only card that stops me as i run the synchro, jet synchron deck. But, apparently using adventure token cards gets around it, havent tried it yet but it apparently works.
i wish the walking negates were slowed down, too, but, focusing on ash itself... it's just so frustrating, as are the other handtraps they made later, like infinite impermanence.
I do wonder about a format with less handtraps that relies more on board breakers such as kaijus, there can be only one, forbidden droplet, etc. If one at least gets to go off and build a board before it gets broken, maybe it would be less frustrating than getting handtrapped. The thing is, people would probably rely more on cards like solemn judgment to counter those, and duels would probably take longer as well. Time on rounds is quite a problem as well. It's tough.
Banned no? Semi’d or limited to decrease opening with Ash in hand. Maybe only if Maxx C stays banned/limited to 1, Called By the Grave gets bumped to 2.
banning ash and maxx C don't solve root problem of yugioh.
Yugioh needs a clear cut direction on how the feeling should be when playing the game. Combo oriented and fast pace? or just slow pace yet many turns? Only then, the solution can be pin pointed.
Assuming the game state has to be slow down, Banning ash and maxx C only make things worse, as the real problem lies on "why player choose to auto include those cards" rather than "how those cards ruin every single game." If you want to slow down a game, you need more cards that can actually effectively limit the ability to special summon or searching and consistently used in on turn 1, in the same time T1 player has a consistent chance to survive T2 OTK.
If you want a face pace, you might need to make every deck like full power ishizu tearlament, where who goes first don't really matter as everyone has a chance to play against you during your first turn. This way, banning maxx C and ash become essential as the hand trap can potentially instant wins you any game the moment it thrown, or lose because your opponent succeed maxx C challange.
either way, yugioh needs a big overhaul in order to solve "T1 big boards turn 2 decide winners" kind of game. However, in the perspective of konami, this also means taking risk to lost existing player as people don't like huge overhaul change where all of those older cards become totally no value. It damages the profit of konami long run. A good example is how they implement huge changes in link era where you need link monster to use extra deck cards, also later they update again revert some of the bad changes before. Both causes a wave of player just gone like that. The similar phenomeneon can be observe in cardfight vanguard as well, which is more radical.
The only reason the newest card are as strong as they are is because we have cards like Ash. The current state of the game is the fault of one goddamn card.
what id we make quick play spells playable during opponent turn like first season Yu-Gi-Oh sounds really busted but at least it negates the likelihood of not having an interaction during opponent turn
I don't really have any strong opinions on Ash tbh. To me it's just another handtrap thats a 1-1 interaction. With that being said I do think it being able to cover a wide variety of effects while some may find annoying I do sort of like it for how it helps with deckspace.
If you split Ash's effect negation between three cards that just means there's more cards you need to buy (I shudder at the thought of the prices they would have in the TCG) and in the case of a huge variety in the meta you may have to run all three and then other handtraps on top of that which just makes deckspace more restrictive.
The errata I do like tbh for the TCG specifically and honestly any way to make turn 1 combo negate boards less oppressive even by a small amount is a good thing.
One day I’m gonna make a whole manifesto for how to balance going second in Yugioh
@@BreadBoyWeeb I honestly think rule changes/additions are the way to go and then adding a banlist after a couple of months post said rule changes for further balancing.
Well of course, this dumbass doesn't really take card market into consideration when he is going off with his takes. Same with his video about generic monster cards. Why have generic monsters that are a one and done when you can make a dozen of them which means you have to spend either 360 UR materials or hundreds of dollars to buy physical cards.
All 3 of his videos are anti consumer in nature. Banning Maxx C outright removes 9 staples in Master Duel wich means 9 different UR cards that will have to replace the gap which will vary deck by deck. Banning generic extra deck monsters does the same. At no point does he ever consider if this will make the game more affordable. At best he might make a video along the lines "Konami shouldn't be greedy" when generic cards are the best way to keep track of demands. It's easier to reprint 100 most played cards compared to whatever vision this guy has.
8000 lifepoints isn't enough to keep a player safe for even a turn. Konami should raise the base lifepoint total to 10,000. It's a small increase compared to what decks are capable of, but it just might be enough of a cushion to allow players to turn duels around.
They could even go extreme and make it 15,000 lifepoints.
I think limit would work. Because most players often bring 3 so they need to replace 2 copies with other handtrap or techs. Ash power level is sure really different from other handtrap such as droll, ghost belle even shifter. Even if playing against non-combo deck, she just works. Because every archetype at least has 1 card that helps to draw, add something, dump something or special summon straight from deck. The other handtrap just slow or situational. Shifter needs you to have 0 monster in GY, Droll is slow and has drawback to you, Ghost Belle mostly to counter zombie archetype, Veiler targets and can only be used during opp. Main phase, D.D. Crow has similar issue with ghost belle, Skull Meister is budget Ghost Belle, Ghost mourner is too specific despite bonus burn damage, Chaos Hunter is format dependant and costly, Psy-framegear handtraps are too costful and need you to control no monster. Pankratops and Ghost Ogre are decent but still far from Ash.
You just gotta know they gonna design a handtrap to counter the seting from deck, and it will be expensive
Guy who's salty about Maxx "C" is also salty about Ash Blossom, who woulda thunk? Let me guess... got your "break my board" combo deck shut down by a single card one too many times, right?
Seriously, though, cards like Maxx "C" and Ash Blossom exist to try and keep the game at least somewhat in check. Maxx "C" by making your opponent have to choose between doing their full combo and giving you huge amounts of card advantage (and also risk getting hit by more disruption), or settling for a less developed board state to deny that advantage, and Ash Blossom by basically preventing your opponent from completing their combo.
I've got two thoughts on this:
1. Keep Ash Blossom and thus any remote sense of balance the game might still have
OR
2. Ban Ash Blossom and see how deep the rabbit hole goes, and how much more bullshit the community is willing to take before giving Konami the collective middle finger and ditching this unbalanced game.
Here's the thing - Konami isn't going to slow the game down REGARDLESS of whether Ash Blossom is banned or not. Ash Blossom is a symptom, not the cause, same with Maxx "C". The cause is Konami monetizing power creep and INTENTIONALLY making more and more powerful cards SPECIFICALLY with the intent of forcing sales.
Talking for the Tcg, Maxx "c" is already banned for years and most of the people agree it is by far the best Standard Yugioh format we have for this exact reason. Ash blossom does not preventing your opponent from completing their combo, except if you are ashing low tier decks. I agree the existance of Ash blossom and the consolidation of Maxx "c" is a symptom of a poorly managed game, not the cause, along with some other handtraps and generic overpowered Extra Deck monsters. Powecreep is a bad business model for a 25 years old game and should not be excused.
The most fun I've had with this game was when Ash was at 2
Branded propaganda 🗣
Lol
Let alone should, we must consider the could. Without ash blossom everything is running rampart the game has no breaks everything is crazy.
There is a continuous spell card called 'Prohibition', all it does is have you say the name of one card, and it cannot be used for the rest of the duel, as long as it is on board. It has potential to slow down the game, but would need to be protected as any effect that can, will remove it from the board and make the card you chose playable again, at least in Yu-Gi-Oh GX Spirit Caller, I'm not sure about actual tournaments. The best part is that it's at three and is searchable by generic spell searchers so you can just ban three problem cards of your choosing.
prohibition is useless going second, its just eh going first. Why would I side it going first when you can side a floodgate like summon limit and instantly win no matter what
@@BreadBoyWeeb yeah, but it can still slow down a game, which is what we need, or they could limit a lot of cards.
I'm more annoyed by the fact that after 25 years Konami *STILL* refers to all Undead as "Zombies".
In a non-rotating game power creep is inevitable
that's why I think there's 2 and only 2 ways to fix Yugioh
either
1) a hilariously large banlist
or
2) a complete overhaul / new game
If my understanding of the game is right, then during Yugis-Era they realized that Archetypes are a good thing
but during Fusion-Era they realized that having an overpowered archetype made players simply not play weaker archetypes
so because everyone was playing the same archetype they backpaddled and made more generic bosses, the Synchro Monsters to allow more variety
then, during Synchro Era they realized, that people loved the less archtype bound generic approach because it added a lot of versatility to deckbuilding and made their decks feel more personal
(tho decks where still archetype based, just less strict)
and then they overdid it
During the Xyz-Era generic bosses started growing way too powerful
now easily accessible generic bosses often if not always where more powerful then hard to access archetype bosses
the game quickly lost all balance
and a solution was needed
they couldn't tune generic bosses down as the mistakes where already made and the number monsters where the whole gimmik of this era
so instead of treating the sickness,
they started treating the symptoms
Hand traps and flood gates started spawning left and right
While they did good in treating the symptoms, they actually brought more harm than good as the sickness still grew and it rapidly did so
hand traps and flood gates enabled power creep to go crazy
Pendulum Era came and was so very very over powered that it literally killed all the old cards
they lost players left and right because all their decks got nuked by pendulum
so they had to drastically nerf it
Link-Era started
a new mechanic of monsters creating extra zones, designed solely to handle the pendulum problem
and then it escalated again, as this mechanic was just as broken
generic bosses spawned everywhere
more and more hand traps, flood gates and generic bosses where created to deal with the already existing generic hand traps, flood gates and generic bosses
and slowly but surely this two player game deteriorated into a single player game where a turn takes 20 minutes, summons one half of the deck and draws the other half while completely locking the opponent from playing turn 1
players started only playing half a deck for the other half was reserved solely for generic hand traps and flood gates and all end boards started looking the same
the amalgamization of meta decks started getting so bad that "archetype decks" often only played only one singular if maybe two to three archetype cards and the rest of the 40 card deck was just the same in every single deck list
Now we just go from tier-0 format to tier-0 format
And my question is,
what's the point of playing a non-rotating card game if every three months a new tier-0 deck spawns and forces you to trash your old deck and buy the new one?
You could play a rotating game and literally have the same
That's why I think there's only the 2 mentioned solutions
Either all generic overpowered cards get banned, wich would result in a hilariously large banlist with thousands of cards
Or they restart the game
A complete overhaul
A new more balanced game with clear rules and clear effect-phrasing from the start
that has a way bigger focus on balance than before, heavily restricting boss monsters to their archetypes
similair to rush duel
Ye I think he is one of us boys our bro is spreading holy branded words. We must protect him at all cost.
I only (attempt to) play competitively on Master Duel, and on there I’ve found Ash Blossom isn’t that big of a threat. Whenever I play it, my opponent almost always has a bunch of other plays they can do and is still able to end on a crazy end board. Having one or two negates barely makes a dent in most deck’s combos, at least from what I’ve seen. So I think it’s fine to stay.
One thing I would like to see if for the to put a hard limit on the amount of time you can summon per turn. Make it 10. Most decks can make a decent board within 10 summons. It will slow the game down. Also long turns will become a thing of the past.
This would kill like 100 decks these days
Experiment; ban all generic extra deck monsters and limit all major hand traps. Maxx C and Shifter are banned, just no.
Damn guess meta became more meta
Honestly just change the quick effect property of hand traps to only be able to be used on the opponents turn. That way your opponent cant handtrap you after theyve set up their board
Hand traps shouldn’t be a 1 for 1 for anything. There is no reason why a card in your hand should be able to counter a card on your opponents field for no real cost.
4:00 While it is true that Ash is a cause of cards setting from Deck, I think it opens an awesome design space. Imagine decks that could interact with the Set card on the open window before it activates? Like, cool, a Rota that beats Ash but loses to MST, that’s pretty neat imo. I think that this exploration of how cards can be tutored is awesome for the game.
that "cool" interation of losing to mst relies on you going first BEFORE they set the card. If the person setting a card and not searching it is going first, that means its unstoppable because no handtrap can beat it. Then if that same person has ash along with a big board, you lose almost automatically unless you play stun
@@Sp3llmen That’s very true, but if we’re looking at design space and how Diabellstar circumvents Ash, it wouldnt be a stretch to hope for a future handtrap like card that could pop cards at Infinite Impermanence timing. Like Typhoon, but maybe more applications, like how Ash has multiple triggers.
Very theoretical on my part, but if we’re talking about design, I think cards like this would be a logical step! MST would most certainly be too slow, but this one wouldnt. I used MST as a catch all “pop a backrow” term; i didnt mean like the actual quick play spell, sorry!
Actually, hand traps and board breakers belong to the same group, and I prefer calling it Turn 2 Protection.
They introduced the rule not to draw during the first turn in 2014 to keep going first in check. It didn't suffice. After Ash Blossom, we also had Nibiru and Dark Ruler No More in 2019. The result? Going first continued to give a huge advantage for the entirety of 2020.
Because there is no ceiling on special summoning, spell activations, etc.; this is very difficult to win in this game after losing the die roll. Engine cards are mostly useless against an established board. Only Turn 2 Protection cards keep going first in check.
Ash Blossom is the definition of "necessary evil" in Yu-Gi-Oh. There's no getting around it. You either play it and/or a similar card that slows your opponent's combo roll, or you just lose.
Banning this card is absolutely the wrong move to make. If anything, you could errata Ash to where she can negate anything that would make a card leave the Main Deck in any way on resolution, including being placed in the S/T zone, and she'd still be fine at 3.
Droll is worse. Ash isn't even super strong because most competent decks can extend past an ash, as such it helps slow down decks forcing them to end on weaker boards rather than just end their turn, whereas droll is beyond brutal. And you need to weaken the opponent, modern decks are designed to completely steamroll you if their combo goes off even midrangey decks will end on 3 disruptions and crackback for t3 otk or control decks will set up a shitload of advantage ensuring they outgrind you over time. Ash being able to counter most tutor from the deck type effects makes it wellrounded and ensures no matter what you're up against you at least have something you can use to at least have a fighting chance going 2nd.
I think instead of banning a bunch of cards a better option would be to make a summon limit to the game… like normally you could only normal summon one monster and in the beginning you could special summon any many monsters as you wanted cause there wasn’t that many ways you could fill the broad but there wasn’t much purpose to that unless you were attacking to take out your opponent, no real boss monsters that have built in negates .
So if the rules were changed to allow one or two normal summons but only three to five special summons , it would allow you to pull out your combo cards and set up just one boss monster and would stop these 30ty minute turns.
I’ve been playing since the beginning, and the rules have already changed before besides new types of monsters that need new rules , there was no limit to how many cards you could put in your deck and at one point you could have 30ty side deck monsters. Imagine having 30ty side deck limit now the game would be nuts lol so sometimes the rules need to change with the power creep.
Ive always said it needs to be limited not banned
I must say, in the current format, ash isn't doing a lot. She's fire, literally, and tgerefore not the best to put in against snake-eye
Without it I can’t even fathom the idea of dealing with mfs 300 turn plays
Ash is a icon of yugioh just appreciate it how old the card is and how many people use it in this meta of the game.
An icon of modern degeneracy
You can say the same thing about Raigeki or even Pot of Greed. That usually doesn't mean it is a good card.
This might be a hard idea to implement, or just too much work on Konami's part, but I think banning Ash would allow for archetypes to have more built-in handtraps that are healthier for the game. In general, I think we need to move just a little bit away from "negate! negate! negate!!!!" and more in the direction of other mechanics/gimmicks in Yugioh like dodging effects. There's no turning the clock on handtraps - the speed of the game just wouldn't allow it. So just make playing on your opponent's turn the norm.
this is why skill drain is good as it slows down the game enough it feels like you're playing GOAT format.
Seeing This Video About a 7 Seven Years Old Card, Seven Days After it got Upload
I was gonna say that a cheap I wouldn't want to get rid of a cheap and non offensive staple until I realized I was calling a 4-5$ piece of card board cheap.... Great vid always chief
I'm all for the banning of Ash Blossom until they make fusion summoning inherent like Synchro, XYZ, Pendulum, and Links.
Fusions have to rely 90% on a card resolving vs. rely on summoning the necessary fusion materials onto the field to inherently summon fusion monsters via tribute like the other ED mechanics.
In other words, Konami should allow inherent tributes for fusion summons so that we are able to special summon fusion monsters without need of spells/effects or just treat the fusion spell/effect as an inherent summon to which Handtraps and Omni-negates can't stop like the other ED mechanics.
Honestly if Konami not just limit cards but out banned the problematic cards I would enjoy the game. However that would be silly because there will always be a problematic card in yu gi oh no matter is old or new. Although ash has been in the meta untouched for along time I don't agree with a banned but a limit should be fair. Handtraps need to be balanced.(And yes I know that's impossible because Yu-Gi-Oh loves it's power creep but it can also lead games to it's downfall)
My problem with ash is that it hurts weaker decks more than the stronger ones due to the stronger ones being pushed by Konami to be able to play though things like ash.
Honestly to keep a card like ash and all the cards that are too strong that ash stops the game needs a core change.
Dealing 8k dmg is too easy. Summoning boss monsters is too easy. And board breakers are too easy to use. Almost nothing requires any sort of commitment. The only mechanic that has a downside at the moment is traps and even those are getting out of hand with some decks and staples.
0:48 pendulums are over 10 years old now
I really fucking hate that generic handtraps work for the going first player. Like, as if going first wasn't already enough of an advantage, now you can also weaponize your defensive cards on turn two in addition to the 15 interruptions you set up.
It's why I don't buy the "Maxx C helps turn 2 players" argument because it also helps turn 1 players.
Actually, I've been thinking about how to errata Maxx C to make it fair. And I think I came up with a solution. Step 1. Make it function like Droll. As in, you can chain it to a SS but only get a draw after that SS. And Step 2. Make the draw happen in the end phase. That way it really only benefits you for comebacks.
In general we need to nerf cards for going first. Maybe we should design every handtrap like Imperm.
Banning Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring(along with many monster hand traps) and then errata it to where you also need to discard a monster of the same type/attribute as the handtrap you are trying to play can help balance a lot of cards better, while also locking you into summoning monster of that 1 type or attribute until the end of your next turn, forcing players into playing mono type/attribute decks if they REALLY want to play those handtraps, and you would also need to dedicate so many resources just to play 1 card that may or may not have synergies with the deck that you're are trying to play.
And yes you could also apply this to Maxx "C" and Earth Insect decks would see more competitive play. Though people who ENTIRELY LOATHES Weevil Underwood as a character would have mixed feelings on that...
And imagine having to send Light attribute monsters to graveyard just to activate Effect Veiler, Honest, Ghost Ogre & Snow Rabbit, and Nibiru. Light Decks would end up seeing more competitive play as a result. Yes, even Blue-Eyes and Galaxy-Eyes... though they would still brick like crazy though...
Zombie Toolbox control would see even more competitive play with Ash Blossom/Ghost Belle needing at either a monster of the same attribute as them, or another Zombie type monster to even play them, and Zombie decks typically don't care if they mostly have recursion of some kind.
Trap cards with graveyard effects would see more play if Infinite Impermanence required you to send another trap from to grave, though that may end up requiring re-balancing trap cards with graveyard effects as a result, and on a case by case basis.
''Yes, even Blue-Eyes and Galaxy-Eyes... though they would still brick like crazy though...'' They should just remove tribute summon like in Duel Links.
In a card game with no mulligans and 5 card opening hands, trading 2 for 1 just to stop a single effect or card activation would be brutally bad and probably unplayable unless it consistently prevents you from losing the game. Discard for cost would be better suited for the turn ending handtraps like Droll/Shifter or to a lesser extent Nibiru.
I think a better solution is you have to reveal another card in your hand that shares a card type/attribute etc. with either the hand trap itself or with the card you are trying to negate. Then you still get the deckbuilding restriction without making the cards unplayable.