In my opinion to fix this meta is to bring Kashtiera and Tearelemts to full power so we have 3 mata tear 0 decks that counter eachothers and can be mixed with eachothers. Full power tear will make Shaddol and Branded more powerful and a valuable option to play. Kashtiera swordsoul would get famous. Another thing is to make a Stun structure archetype deck. Which can be mixed with Kashtiera to counter the graveyard. Alongside Floo and Labyrinth such format would be the greatest. Another thing they can do is bring a new version of the Egyptian Gods giving them their full power from the anime. Also make a Link 3 version of them. In addition to Mimick Puppet new support such format would satisfy everyone. It would be a mata tear 0 and diverse at the sametime.
Having 10+ tier 0 decks running around? Honestly that would be pretty fun. A chaotic rock-paper-scissors where there are no "this hand trap beats the meta deck so run 3" cards. It would mean the decks would have to become more versatile to be able to fight everything else.
@@seldomn06 then they should design decks with their own negates instead of having them shat out a baronne or an apollousa. Fire Kings is a good way to have interaction without negates.
Then gives those archetypes support. Doing crap like dropping SP LK doesn’t help anyone because those “vast majority of bad decks” that use them means those strong decks can use them too anyway.
Barrone is not fine lol. It should only be used in her archetype or at least come with some form of lock if it’s gonna be a 3k Omni negate pop AND a target pop AND recycle swap into a material if need be.
I’ll just summarize the rant I’ve had with generic extra deck boss monsters with this: No generic boss monster should be better than those you have to work to get. The more generic they are, the weaker their effects should be. That’s how you begin to control the power creep and get more creative archetype boss monsters
Tbh I think that would solve a lot of the game’s problems. Plus, I get so annoyed when I see something like “*insert deck here* deck profile” and it all ends on the same 4 generic ED cards that have absolutely nothing to do with the deck.
You can just look at Gemini monsters as a perfect example of screwed up balance. Seriously, why do the cards with a hoop to jump to get their Effects get extra weak ones? Especially weird when they did Spirits correctly, built-in drawbacks but strong Effects.
Some people still fail to realize that Konami doesn't care about the state of their card game; all they care about is printing stronger and stronger cards so you'll keep buying packs to compete
That is when happens when you make broken archetypes that don’t come with any locks whatsoever lol. And people why people are gravitating toward stun and floods.
To be fair, this has been the case for a long time. Especially starting from the Synchro Era. Of course, there would be slight differences depending on the Deck, but probably half of it was the same.
Not every archetype has extra deck monsters or the extra deck monsters they have are kinda weak. Look at Volcanics, for example. They are more playable after the new support but if you want to play a pure version of the deck (AKA no Horus, Snake-Eyes, etc) you are going to need something else to back you up since your two boss monsters (Emperor and Doomfire, love them both btw) are probably not going to be enough. This is where the generic extra deck comes in to give a Volcanic player options to remove backrow, deal with high stats monsters, recover carsd from the grave, etc. I 100% agree that many decks runs cards like Knightmare Unicorn. It gets generic and it is sometimes boring for being predictable. But those generic cards also give archetypes with little or no extra deck monsters a better fighting chance by covering certain weaknesses or giving the deck options that in archetype it would probably not have at all. It's a shade topic since generic boss monsters make every meta deck aim towards the same goal... A board full of negates. But at the same time, generic boss monsters also help weaker archetypes that otherwise would have a far less methods to face more competent decks... This is not a topic that I enjoy to be honest and my takes on this situation are both hate and love for generic extra deck options : /
The problem is that the extra deck went from being a boss monster gallery into a second hand full of the strongest extenders. Extra deck monsters should be the end of a play, not win more cards on demand.
@@josephcourtright8071we couldn't have guessed the game was gonna go a victim to the capitalism.... If it stayed like that classic fusuon deck, and maybe slightly powerful XYZ monsters, then would be okay. Other than that, it's a big no logic wise and entertainment wise. And of course; economy-wise. Also, synchro mechanic is too unnecessary to me, because of a Tuner title. In this game ye literally have acrhetyoes, elements, monster types, different sorts of effects, star levels .... Ye already have many different variants, ye didn't have to add another variant of 'whether or not havung the title of Tuner'
Nah bro fuck Baronne that card easily outshines all but a handful of synchros in the game. 1 tuner + 1 non-tuner and no further requirements or setup required to make an omni that also DESTROYS is just apalling. Card is so insane that even something like snake eyes will slot it in as the only synchro besides formula to climb into her.
Oh trust me; it’s horrid But I might have made a card that could have been so powerful, it could prevent the entirety of the extra deck from even being put in play. A new time wizard card that could either banish your extra deck or your opponent’s, but it is difficult to summon as you need to monster reborn one of your 3 time wizards to bring it out T.W.O.T + other time wizard fusion (X3 time wizards) = this card
@@lip124 yeah, but it’s not that easy for some of us; take me for example; I play toons and a hermos deck revolving around time wizard, what do I do then? I’m skint on sr and ur materials, and I haven’t the heart to dismantle what I like and am efficient with compared to a meta deck I know next to nothing about. What then? Huh?
Cope hard. No one likes unplayable boss monsters that die to smashing ground. You are lying to yourselves otherwise. Old ygo was just chaos Monarchs everywhere for boss monsters as fusions sucked
@@dubstepsoundwave-yo8te Brother if ur playing toons even getting to baronne is gonna be an uphill battle for you. You have to wait until konami decides your worse-than-edison archetype deserves to have functional new cards.
I think what’s annoying is that most generic boss monsters negate. It feels hopeless when your opponent has 4 say “No” set up on their first turn. That’s why Zeus doesn’t feel annoying.
Zeus is annoying depending on the deck. A 3k non OPT send board wipe + how incredibly easy he is to bring out is why he should never be allowed at more then 1.
@@mrharvy100 "should never be alowed at more then one" bro, exept like zoo no single deck would play more then 1 anyways. How i know that? Because hes at 3 in tcg and not a single deck plays him at 3. Not even purrely xD
We can fix everything wrong with Yu-gi-oh with just one thing: bring back the concept of drawback. Most cards don't have drawbacks, or minor ones, or ones that actually become perks. If we want to go further, not making everything require generic materials would be nice.
@@dmelleux maybe not that extreme, but you're stupid to deny that cards should have drawbacks. Thats risk reward. And that was what yugioh had a lot of, you risked a lot but you got rewarded a lot. Now its literally nothing but reward and no drawbacks to it. hence why going second usually resorts in surrends online in MD.
I don’t think it’s just to sell cards but also an excuse for Konami to not have to bother creating unique ED support for every archetype. Why bother creating individually big bosses, negaters and disruptors when you can just give them all easy access to Barrone, savage and access code? Or why bother creating unique individual extenders for certain types like fire when they can all just utilize promethean princess?
Probably but the issue is when it trickles into all the meta decks relying on them. If these cards were only available to garbage decks that would be fine LOL
Exactly these same people going “my garbage deck needs it for a better endboard” ignore that these better decks can use it too. It’s the same argument why Maxx should be banned or not: My garbage deck can win if I resolve Maxx C vs those same strong decks can use Maxx C too
Except Konami is shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. They are obligated to create a certain number of cards at a specific frequency. A lot of times, Konami creates garbage useless pack filler a because they need to figure out how to fill out packs. Instead of creating uselsss pack filler, they can create archetype unique boss monsters that have very strong effects that support their archetype loop. It's easier to balance outliers. Let's look more in-depth: is Snakes Eyes really broken, or are the generic cards that it makes more broken? The answer is the generic cards are, but unfortunately the Snake Eyes cards are going to be the ones hit while the generic boss monsters will live to play in another Tier 1 or Tier 0 deck. If all generic boss monsters got banned, then we can evaluate how strong each deck is based on what they get access to in their archetype. Then if the gameplay loop of something like Snake Eyes is too strong, THEN you can limit and ban the outliers. Rinse and repeat for every new archetype that comes out. But instead, we're throwing 20 new things on every new banlist. If we banned the generic boss monsters, Konami only has to hit the egregiously terrible archetype cards which would exist strictly due to poor card design. But that's way better than balancing based on a combo line that leads to an unexpected boss monster like say King Calamity or Kali Yuga. Those cards weren't meant to leave their archetype, but certain cards were simply too generic that the combo lines to them existed. So all in all, if they make everything less generic, then you have way less outliers to account for, Konami can make more cards with less pack filler, and the power ceiling of decks can be controlled more easily. Konami being lazy doesn't help them sell more product.
@@mrharvy100 The better decks don't benefit from it as much as much as weaker decks do however. Better decks already have a wincon, weaker decks sometimes lack an actually good wincon and these cards give it to them. Manaddium is literally rogue tier because of this and would be far from playable if it's goal was Primeheart OTK you'd be better of playing galaxy eyes. Maxx C benefits stronger decks but punishes weaker decks by forcing you to run 9 cards which could've been dedicated to countering the meta. Maxx C and generic negates are absolutely incomparable
Through Maxx C argument is a deflection because if it was the case then TCG would be stronger than both Master duel and OCG. This boils down to needing to force Konami to ban generic bosses such as Barrone, Chengying, and Access Code. Plus TCG would benefit from banning some of the generic negates.
Generic boss monster not only bad mechanically, but also aesthetically weird, imagine playing rock mining deck who its gameplay are digging your main deck (excavating cards) and your boss monster is a flower-knight lady, gun themed dragon, and a fairy with a bow. And then your next turn you summon big robot with a lance
Yeah. I can't believe people actually think apollousa is a problem. Like... they are so fragile, unless Masquerena is used, who is who should be banned
As a HERO player, I'm kinda frustrating to see people adding the DPE engine in their "generic negate/pop board". It's just when you see your favorite boss monster being played in such a deranged deck full of generic negates and pops when it should've been your exclusive boss hurts me. And it's also kinda funny how DPE is also a good counter to its own deck and seeing you lose to your own boss monster is just kinda sucks Also BAN BARONNE I'M TIRED OF SEEING THIS CRAP IN EVERY SINGLE DECK, SYNCHRO OR NOT. PEOPLE ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT JUST BAN IT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
100% agree. I play a Cyberse Code Talker deck, and when I see people link into Accesscode Talker it makes me so angry. "The F*** you mean he gets to play my Link-4? He doesn't have a single Cyberse monster in his deck!"
@@heyarnold2006 me running codetalker and the newer firewall dragon was fun but i never knew accesscode talker was a huge issue until more recently lol.
I love Mannadium!! We're finally at full power!! I played through ash, imperm, and Nibiru, and I still won!!! To be fair, my opponent didn't have much other than a bunch of hand-traps 😂😂
The most fun games I've ever played recently are when both me and my opponent don't use those generic extra deck monsters. I can only imagine the relief they feel when I Special Summon Trumpeter or Big Waraji with their own effects and lock myself into pure Superheavy Samurai.
Konami of TCG inherited the terrible business practices from upper deck. They haven't made a prize cards that was a random promo for Japan in forever. I'm pretty sure Minerva was the last one they did like that
Archetypal boss monsters should ALWAYS be tribal locked. Having them be generic negates any point in playing their home archetype. Do I think generic boss monsters shouldn't exist? No but they shouldn't be the most powerful options and feature some of the most powerful negates. That should be the trade off for mixing engines and decks, you don't have the level of power a pure or mostly pure deck could have.
I don't mind archetypal monsters being generic if their effects aren't generic or are better in their home deck (and decks that play in a similar way).
@@jo-neallewis6385honestly I’m fine with hand traps but I think they need to be tuned. Either make them archetypal (requiring specific cards on board to use them) or make them actual trap cards so they can get focused hate cards. We’d prolly have a lot less Omni negates if hand traps were actually traps. Boss monsters that stop s/t’s could be way more viable design wise etc.
@@TheBeastlyBomber So you prefer handtraps like the heralds ? (These have a reason to be monsters, it locks them to decks that mainly use fairies and allows pitching a herald to use another)
@@dudono1744 in a sense yeah. I’d prefer more disruption based effects rather than flat out negation but yeah handtraps that have a cost. I also think they can still be trap cards and limit where they can be played. For example have a trap card that changes a card’s battle position but needs to discard a rock monster from hand to allow you to use it from hand.
Honestly they also need to stop making cards that will obviously be used in a ftk and also just ban ftk cards in general. The new gimmick puppet support is a consistent ftk that can do it in more than one way while also being unaffected by monster effects which is stupid.
Back and forth absolutely has been (mostly) power crept out of the game. That's why past formats are so popular because they let people have interactive matches more consistently than current Snake-Eye format.
I think adding secondary ban list like they have in duel links would help a lot. Sure, you can have any of these awesome Omni-negates: but, you can have only one or two of them. (I would combine both TCG/OCG style ban list with the Duel Links style ban list; not replace one with the other.)
honest to god agreed. A way to limit negates is needed. I agree ash SHOULD stay but i cant deny there's benefits to it being gone. Konami is too lazy, too ignorant about the game's health, to really take that step though. However nothin excuses generics and link kuri. Link kuri got banned for the sins of savage borreload, appo and barrone.
Simple and effective niches that are difficult to power creep without printing the same card with more numbers? Cards are allowed to be good for a long time.
I feel like the mistake was making promethian princess. I feel like snake eyes would have a slightly harder time abusing both i.p and appolousa with princess. But yeah… generic ED is a bad idea. Good example is like mannadium is the same synchro end board with primeheart being outclassed by anything that is generic. Same with dis pater.
Appo is fragile as heck and is only a problem cuz masquerena offers her so much protection. Get rid of masquerena and little knight and appo are gonna see way less play.
Baronne is probably one of the best, and possibly strangest example of this problem. It was released alongside Crystal Clear Wing Synchro Dragon, the supposed boss monster of Speedroids. They're both Level 10 WIND Synchro monsters, but Baronne is generic and Crystal Clear Wing is an Accel Synchro monster, and yet Baronne's effect is so much better. Speedroids lock you into WIND monsters, which Baronne is, so there is pretty much no reason to ever go into Crystal Clear.
It's extremely annoying when I build a deck for some niche archetype, and I decide to check out some decklists for tips, the extra deck is 2% that archetype, 98% generic spam. There's so many interesting decks out there, it sucks to see them get ruined like this. And, like, Baronne has her own deck, but nobody pays any attention to it since she can be used in every other deck.
What we need is to add an extra format without any competitive-related cards where we can go and actually play the game (for casual and new players or anyone who just want to enjoy what yugioh has to offer) and the other format would be our current chaotic yugioh where we can start every turn with forbidden droplet and win or lose trying. The key point is to make the separation between cards that are made for just winning (ignoring if the opponent will have any chance to fight back or not) and cards that are made for having fun and having a good time, where the win happens with style and grace and a certain level of respect, also allowing both players to show their best and focusing on strategies and the combat between monsters, that's what yugioh is supposed to be about. The competitive mechanics like negations have to be designed correctly in order to be implemented into the game and they have failed at doing that so might as well just throw them into a different format where we'll have to deal with them just if we feel like doing it or just go to the other format where they do not exist so the game actually happens and each duel doesn't feel like wasting time.
I am not a yugiboomer, I HAD yugioh cards as a kid and playground rules played it with friends but that’s it. I got back into the game over last year and have 400+hrs on MD. I’m not blinded by nostalgia or any past formats, this game just sucks to play a lot of the time so I agree with what you’re saying. It was a bit of a wake up call for me to invest less time in this game when I saw how opposed a good chunk of the community is to changes like this so now I’ve been playing MTG and it’s honestly just kinda better. Again, I say this as a still yugioh fan that loves the game, but this game is broken right now lol
I really do believe modern yugioh should adopt Duel Links banlist where you can only run 1 limited card and 2 semi'd cards. But only for the extra deck. Snake Eyes too strong? Semi limit IP + SP + Promethean princess + Amblowhale. Changes how the deck functions and builds with 0 bans. Accesscode + Update Jammer become a problem? Limit them. Limit To 3 Baronne, Appolusa, borreload savage, Bagooska, and every other generic negate to stop decks from vomiting them all out.
I agree with this. This would force a lot more variety in how decks work instead of going down the same combo lines, and can potentially bring about deck variety. This still doesn't quite solve the issue that some decks are stronger than others, but you can't solve everything at once.
I don't really see the problem with generic extra deck monsters, that's how edison format was. It's the having generic extra deck monsters that lock you out of playing, and they need to chill on making those kinds of cards. One thing when it's like red rose dragon or evilswarm exciton knight for a board wipe scenario. A whole nother story when they have multiple omni negates along with flood gates.
It's hard to pin down exactly when things started to go wrong. I think it started with the +1 disruptions. That is, a negation or a removal effect that comes at little to no cost to the user. Previously, disruption came at some kind of costs, whether it be a discard, a lifepoint cost, or the card itself being lost, but with +1 disruptions there's no disadvantage to just spamming out as many as possible, and negating literally everything. This really started getting bad in the pendulum era. I don't much like link monsters. Links were created effectively to nerf the pendulum mechanic, which itself was overpowered and created a mechanical floodgate issue. The big problem I have with links design is how most of them lack any real identity. With synchros you needed level combinations, with XYZ you had an axis that you needed to build around, and fusions had to be fused by specific materials. Links just required bodies... any bodies. They got scapegoat and gofu banned, because suddenly all those largely useless tokens became overpowered from a card advantage perspective. All decks started to lose their identity, because their game plan all reduced down to the exact same tactic: spam bodies onto the field, no matter what they were. This is compounded by the fact that Konami also changed their card design philosophy, where instead of making archtype specific restrictive monsters powerful, they made the generic monsters the most powerful. This made it so every pack had a $50 UR that every deck needed, and a bunch of more balanced cards nobody would play due to that aforementioned UR being the better than all of them. The +1 disruption problem further reduced card identity. To give an example, I'm going to compare Emergency Teleport with Raigeki. You'd think those cards aren't that similar, but when staring down negation they really are. If Titanic Galaxy is on the field, they're effectively reduced down to the same thing, which is an opportunity consumption. Raigeki destroys all of the opponents monsters, but Emergency Teleport goes into a Punk combo that will also get rid of all of the opponents monsters. Because of the threat each presents, Titanic Galaxy must negate them when activated. So, the two different effects have been reduced completely in identity to "force out one disruption". Combine this all together, and our decks have no real identity anymore. Deckbuilding consists of putting in as many starters as possible, as many hand traps as possible to stop their starters... for every deck. Victory is decided largely by whether I've opened enough starters to muscle through their hand traps, and vice versa... no matter what those starters are. Limiting access doesn't make the game fun or fair, it just makes the game sacky.
Links are a mechanic about resources and stats. For example, link-1 and link-2 monsters can have good effects, but weak stats. Link-4s and link-5s can have great stats and great effects, but huge drainages of resources.
Pendulum had its fair share of drawbacks and is arguably, aside rit summon, the worse option you got. I wont deny its done its damage. But in the end, its NO WHERE the cause of today's issues. That my friend is searchers and special summoning, not pendulum summoning itself. (look at snake eyes poplar. its not a pendulum card is it? No its not.) One thing is all agreed though: summoning should have conditions.
I’m glad you had the point about Swordsoul. I enjoyed the deck a lot because most of it was in archetype engine, Tenyi (which might as well be in archetype) and using a few generics just to supplement and play through a few disruptions. That is the ideal for me. Archetypes that function on their own.
For me, when it comes to generic boss monsters, I only use them if the monster fits with the deck's identity and spirit. Here are some examples below: Blue-Eyes: - Number 38 (LIGHT Dragon) - Zeus (Kaiba used LIGHT Machines, and it's board wipe effect can be seen as a callback to CED). - Any Galaxy-Eyes card (Galaxy-Eyes can be seen as a spiritual successor to Blue-Eyes). - Soldier of Chaos (Kaiba teamed up with Yugi before). - Linkuriboh (I just thought it'd be funny because Kaiba made Duel Links, so I figured he might have his own Linkuriboh. Also needed to help get eggs in the GY or provide protection). Speedroid: - Baronne De Fleur (WIND Synchro Monster). - Wind Pegasus @Ignister (Level 7 WIND target for Clear Wing Rider) Rokkets: - Starving Venom (DARK Dragon; also good Super Poly target). - Borreload Savage Dragon (Revolver used this, AND Savage Dragon feels right at home alonside his Borrel pals! I feel sad for him because he's always homesick whenever he's used outside Rokkets).
It's always been my opinion that the game didn't need new extra deck monsters after XYZ. Link especially feels like it cheapens the challenge that used to come with making extra deck cards (Synchros being tuner dependent, XYZ being same level dependent, Fusion being card effect dependent, for the most part) Pendulum is obviously a whole other can of worms but Link really made the game too fast. (Btw don't call me a yugiboomer for this lol I love modern yugioh I play it like 10 hours a week)
I agree xyz was enough. But pendu wasnt an issue and isnt an issue. Extra decks were far more than abused with or without them. Synchro was a mixed back, it took a LOT of effort for stardust synchron to OTK for maybe one omninegate. Now? FUCK NO, it'd be the easiest thing in the do to have a floating omni-negate that acts as a boss. Xyz especially abused the extra deck in some archetypes it introduced, horribly balanced as it was, at least it wasnt always easy. i feel that more unique takes on formats and cards woulda been better than new summoning gimmicks over and over. Rush is a interesting format to the game and so was speed duels and turbo duels if turbo was ever really fleshed out. Id love to see an actual tag-duel format too.
The idea that the game will be saved by banning all of the generic boss monsters is a non-starter because we've already seen where this goes. MR4 removed the ability for older decks to access their old generic tools unless Konami deigned to uplift them. Which they did only for decks they wanted to shill leading to two solid tier zero formats where nothing else could compete because their options were limited while the tier zeros were purpose built to steamroll the meta without losing a step. Engines need to be curbed tremendously and redundant staples need to be culled. Generic bosses need to be banned only when they're the obvious problem instead of the decks abusing them. Apollousa has been a terrible Pendulum support card for most of the gap between BODE and PHNI. When it saw play it was due to decks like SHS and now Snake-Eyes being able to spam boards so efficiently they can afford to slap an Apo onto the end board just because.
Well ya that's why I didn't say I want that. I think at the very least rn we should ban Appo. No it will not insta fix the game by itself but the hit would be good for the future of the game
@@BreadBoyWeeb Apo ranging from awful to kind of good in linkspam decks makes it pretty clear to me that the issue is with archetype design and not her. She's only good when a deck can make her and other generic omni-negates while having a solid enough engine to 1. Not be fragile during setup, 2. Be compact enough to run non-engine, and 3. Be resilient enough to crack back within its own engine instead of losing if Apo + Baronne gets outed. All of that is actually a fairly tall order that has happened only three times since she's released. Once during Adamancipator which only had the bodies to perform due to Linkross, again with SHS which had essentially infinite bodies due to too much extension through Scarecrow and Soulpiercer, and now Snake-Eyes which is another case of having too many free bodies along with all the other issues I mentioned earlier tied to the quality of the engine. Mannadium falls into a similar case as the others but it had a lot less success due to various weaknesses with how the deck had to be built and played. So why harp on Apo?
Rogue deserves the opportunity to play and not die to hts like droll, nib, and sometimes even ash. Hell ogre can remove a field spell and hurt bad. Apollousa isnot a problem.
Agree. In general decks that having no access to initially good "archtype boss monster" would have to use these generic boss monster instead to stay relevant. Take fabled for example. Does this mean their player had to summon leviathan, instead of any level 10 generic monster? Until konami released more good support for legacy card people will gravitate towards decks that actually being fully supported with its own archtype boss monster thats actually good. It is MR4 ALL OVER AGAIN
Thank you! I got back into yugioh a few years ago after leaving when 5Ds started. I've been checking out different archetypes lately and realized they had themes to them, like Spyral being a Spy ring to take down the opponent's deck. Sky Striker is like watching an anime character use their special armor to transform into different modes to meet their attack and defense needs. It's amazing what the card creators come up with, but then the meta ruins the beauty of the deck's play
Generic extra deck boss monsters kill creativity, yes. Main deck engines though are also a major problem: it's the top main deck engines that get to those bosses, and unless you're also running a deck fast and strong enough to both play around them *and* OTK, your opponent is always just one card away from just building up *the same board*. And since only certain decks can play that fast, that's another limiter on creativity.
Personally I like the new approach to archetypes, supporting attributes and/or types instead of being locked in names. Like the Fiendsmith, supporting Light/Fiends.
yes but there needs to be restriction. bonfire is clear of that. The issue is that the games types dont interact with archetypes. When they should. I like that seeing types are getting love, yugioh once had it as a major mechanic prior to battle city and it was always funny imagining KURIBO SOLOING BLUE EYES but, that is a side point lol. I just wish that archetypes actually considered its type, instead of getting support that abuses it and supplies the archetype MORE freedom than its omni searcher that allows the ENTIRE deck.
Exodia ftk. Hand traps work, but we come back to "draw the out" It might curb some of that aggravating recursion though. Like there's no point to even wiping a board when they'll just do it all again next turn so it's either otk or don't bother
It would be a start, but they still need to try something to slow power creep. I'm probably wrong, but it feels like I hear about a tier 0 deck every year now.
About time cards the likes of Apollusa and Barrone De Fleur get shit on. I am a passionate ash blossom hater but these "generic boss monster" cards getting hate is good enough for me.
Appo is a fragile monster that is only a problem because of masquerena. Ban masquerena and I guarantee you, appo will see much less play. Same with little knight. I think people only defend or ignore masquerena cuz waifu
I agree 100%, man. I'm playing Mannadium/Scareclaw right now since mannadium is FINALLY at full power. Though Barrone is in my extra deck, i actually try other niche options before resorting to using it. I actually beat Snake-eye without using Barrone. Instead, i used the level 10 Icejade and Adamancipator Dragite.
This is not coming from a yugioh "boomer" mentality. but this is how I view the creep of yugioh: Synchros were the Harbinger of the end. XYZs were the beginning of the end Pendulums is where Yugioh died Links were beating a dead horse. Hand traps were the icing on the festering carcass. This is because Synchros are where the game spiked in power creep due to their inherent speed compared to the game up until that point. XYZs it got even faster. Thats where the true fundamentals started to break down in order to keep up, hand traps replaced traps, turn counts continued to plummet, extra zones, Pendulums convoluted mechanics. Until Yugioh today, competetive 1 turn Solitaire where every card had A thesis paper on it just in hopes of it competing. If I had to point out a specific moment where Yugioh as a game died for me, it was the replacement of "graveyard" with "GY" you could no longer fit the name of one of the core foundational zones in the game on a card anymore. We lost the game of play and counter play, adapting to each opponent in a game that evolved turn by turn. it devolved into reading the instructions to a new archetype and if you couldnt follow the instructions, then you scoop.
@@goddessbraxia oh I did read it. You are just a yugiboomer thinking that extra deck cards besides fusions killed yugioh. Also yugioh is far from dead. You're either a yugiboomer or yugidoomer.
@@blackbird7781 no, if you actually read the post instead of focusing on a choice word to validate calling me a yugiboomer. It states that the cumulation of changes, starting from Synchros, caused a decay of the quality of the game as with each new addition, the power creep of the game accelerated too fast, breaking down the fundamentals of what makes a card game readily engaging and generally accessible. All thats left is a game of glorified competetive solitaire. where every card has a thesis paper on it that no one can be bothered to read them. where the competetive scene is 5 decks on a good week.
I feel like the hand traps and generic "negation" effect boss monster cards that get splashed in meta decks is what makes this game so frustrating. If they banned the popular hand traps and generic "negation" boss monsters, they could have a fresh start to a balanced Yugioh while creating good in archetype cards for the future of the game.
Bad take. Handtraps and generic interruption tools are necessary evils in any meta period. Without interruption your opponents will just run ftk decks and you cant do anything about it since you just shot yourself in the leg by banning any form of interaction to stop your opponent's plays.
@@user-yq3bv9rf9b any format where droll and nibiru are necessary evils is a toxic format. They should hit FTKs with bans instead of reqiring the playbase to run HTs.
@@UncleMerlin Even if you ban all ftks Handtraps and Interruption will always be relevant. Handtraps and Interruption has always been part of deckbuilding. Its not required and its up to you if you would run it on your deck.
@@user-yq3bv9rf9b Not hand traps entirely really, just one, Ash blossom. That card is a menace and should be banned. It has caused too many frustrating situations and I know I'm not the only one. They should just take Called By The Grave off the banlist entirely to combat it at least.
its really sad how Konami keeps releasing new archetypes that look fun, or support to old archetypes, but are buried under the weight of the meta and power creep i have seen people often deflect the criticism of modern YGO with "just play GOAT or Edison", but....what if i want to play an old archetype that isn't available on those formats? what if i want to play Ghostrick? what if i want to play Battlin' Boxer? or even a newer archetype that just can't compete with current YGO, what if i want to play Flame Swordsman or Nouvelles? where do i play these archetypes on so i don't get completely overrun?
This is so true. There is no other format than standard competitive 2024 yugioh for the people that just want to enjoy their pet Decks that came to existence in the last 10 years or something.
@@kingnhonj954 This doesnt work, for me at least, because its still not a real format. You are playing with the same 2-3 people at best a non-exist format with no winning reward potential. At this point you are just playing an expensive Uno with family. Some people, including me, want to enjoy their favorite Deck by being able to win sometimes with it in a real scenario.
@@shien-ryu4395 you are still playing mode4n yugioh in the current format. Reward for winning is always there just have the people come together and make pool for winning. If you want your deck to win in a "real setting" just pretend you want to play a meta deck.
I mean outside of ghostrick (I shamefully did lose to one though lmao so maybe it has a chance) the others are definitely able to hold there own in the modern game.
I was agreeing in theory with a lot of what you were saying at first, BUT: How is saying "if your deck is nothing without Apo, you shouldn't have it" any different from saying "you can only play the select archetypes with lots of support and in archetype negates"? How is that any better for creativity? I made another comment saying something similar in more words, before I got to this line in the video.
Also, Isn't Apallousa an innate -3? The card is only broken on decks who can vomit their deck into the field like Snake-eyes or Block Dragon Adamancipator.
You're expecting this guy to not think biased. He hates appo so blames all problems on a card instead of the cards that make it a problem like masquerena
You also need to consider that changing the whole scheme means that the newest archetype will get the strongest effects and other archetypes are going to have to wait for their wave of support, creating another problem of powercreep, the exact problem we have seen in Cardfight Vanguard
What if konami implemented the Legendary system from rush duels into the tcg/ocg banlist for generic boss monsters. For example, let's say both Apo and Access Code get put into the legendary category, that would mean you can either run 1 access code or 1 Apollousa in your deck, but not both nor you would be able to mix it with other generic boss monsters like savage dragon (if it was put in the legendary list). In short it would be like an additional category to the current banlist system: Something like: Banned > Legendary > Limited 1 > Limited 2. Duel Links also has a system similar to this in its banlist and also due to skill restrictions which makes it so decks feel unique (for the most part) and have to rely on their own boss monsters rather than generic ones.
I dont play rush duel but from your explanation i like this legendary system thing, maybe if it's too harsh they can adjust it a bit, like... you can put multiple legendary card in your extradeck, but you can only control 1 at a time
that could work too! In rush duels there are legendary monsters, spells and traps, you can only run 1 of each max in your deck. For instance, Summoned Skull, Archfiend Soldier, Monster Reborn, Pot of Greed, Mirror Force and Widespread Ruin are all Legendary cards but different type of cards (monster, spell, trap) out of those you can only include 1 of each at 1 copy ma. So if a player picks Summoned Skull, Pot of Greed and Mirror Force then they wouldn't be able to include the other ones in their deck. I know they have fusion monsters too, but I'm not sure if fusion is considered separate from the main deck when it comes to legendary cards. @@maunabesanika
I love swordsoul. Really brought in the feeling that the extra deck was a toolbox. The main combo was linear and short (chixao is great because it’s both extension and end board). And gives you access to the entire 8* and 10* synchro pool. And there are some really cool options in there. Like Baxia spins, beserker, and the admantine. Plus baronne wasn’t the only 10 you could use. Qixing and Chungus are also fantastic cards that work better in certain matchups.
Xyz era was peak. I love Edison but needing a tuner made it so some decks didn't bother making synchros leaving their toolbox elements unused. Xyz being a more readily available toolbox makes the expected counterplay a lot stronger. Both eras are amazing though.
once they start replacing these boss monster with actually well designed in-archetype boss monsters, then they can start churning the staple end board extradeck monsters out. But they don't, at least not consistantly, Generic cards a perfect for yugioh because it allows stratagies to do something with themselves without the need for these possibly very restrictive in archetype bossmonsters, I would like more decks that end on boards like dragon link again, having the option to go into these generic cards, but still able to fully utalize their own monsters like heavenly spheres and borreload savage ect. The fact is that these cards themselves are also generic (for the most part) but significantly work better in their own achetype. All im saying is, leave both but encentavise in archetype bossmonsters to try and clean out the need for these generically strong cards.
Honestly, my main issue with baronne is the fact that there were no other good level 10 synchros before it. They either had CRAZY restrictions or did close to nothing.
The most fun i've had with the game in the past while was when i made an ftk with earthbound servants. (basically, it involves summoning tokens with black garden, getting greater linewalker out, summon aslla piscu, then remove it from the board via synchro or fusion for game)
See, I think a way to solve this would be to just start xeno-locking decks again. Why in the hell does Snake-Eyes not have a single type/attribute lock anywhere? Even Drytrons has a lock, and a damn well designed one too!
Seriously, best yugioh binge channel out there now. Being straightforward and honest about the state of Yugioh actually makes me feel better about the cards I already own.
And that's why punk gold pride and branded are my favorite decks, they have good aethestic, cool concept, fun playstyle but the most important thing is they use completely unique cards. Both decks have like 1 negate(not even omni ) but also a variety of way to deal with different situations and most of the time create some really interactive duels and remind me why I love this game from the start
I really appreciate the differentiation of Accesscode and Underworld Goddess. Not every generic boss is bad, but there’s a difference between good and bad generics.
MAaaaaaathmeeeeech indie boss accesscooooode. Underworld goddess usually is fine but I am not big on zeus because slow decks like to board wipe me so fast or use it as a form of control. If he sent himself? Sure but not really big on zeus other than he does look cool. Fair? Kind of but I rate him a harpie feather duster as most kind of annoying...mostly because the send effect besides omni is kind of bull...Exciton knight though? Now that was more fair
Bruh the game has been ruined for a long time What time you pick changes from person to person but I think the game was broken from the moment it was designed without a resource system Decks should not be able to vomit out 20+ cards on the first turn, but without any sort of limiting factor it was an inevitability Yugioh can’t be saved, just enjoy it for the stupid mess it is
That isnt even true. You clearly dont understand the game. But you're right in one case that no recourse system is never a good thing. But yugioh in the older days had limitations. cards didnt search the entire damn deck, grave was a grave, not a extra hand. It wasnt easy to access your extra deck monsters, effects were way more limiting as a whole and archetypes didnt over expand. The mistake was not having any limitations in the rules such as Duel Links did with deck creation. Or no rules against a summon limit. That was what hand traps were for, to moderate the abuse of current cards. Too bad the best one we have warps the game and has since its major play. yugioh is fine without a recourse system: its just too late to clean up the mess and get it to a more "clean" state.
Best way to balance the game is that extra deck monsters need ONE of the material to be the same Attribute *or* Type as the extra deck monster. That way you'll need to either play WIND or WARRIOR monsters to make a Baronne.
Im pretty sure this breaks some archetypes in ways they were supposed to function, like it totally negates easy access to the in archetype negate that Pendulum Magicians have in Vortex, as they couldn't make Absolute an archetypal Extra Deck monster in optimal situations and in a consistent manner, as you would have to run specific monsters which aren't worth running, so overall it would lower the powerceiling of many decks that you don't want to decrease. I guess you could also say in an response to my argument is that you could just hardfuse it,but again you need to run another random one-off.
My idea to fix this is to make a ace list as part of the ban lost. The ace list only allow you one card from the entire list. So if those three card on the list you need to make a choice. If you choose barren de flur, you can not have the other cards in your deck
great video with the bunch of hand traps u need now plus its a 1st go meta to win most of ur games and not to mention there is quite a few generic link cards which are just broken like u said apollouse to mention a few dont get me started on snake eyes the state master duel is in is very bad just hope the ban list doesnt dissapoint us also
@@soukenmarufwt5224 you are the biased here, i never said it can't have destruction protection. I don't like towers but having some destruction protection is good.
@@duduvec5971 You do realize just to get to the level 12 negates you have to jump through many hoops, and commonly they will actually be well designed to offer a decently interesting one for one. Quasar is the only level 12 negate to stay on the field, but because it’s the exception it’s filled with a unique floating effect too. Compare that to Blazar or Sifr who are also negates but play in their own unique way. Blazar negates a wide variety of things but leaves the field, Sifr only negates monsters but can destroy any card on the field. Each play in their own way and DOES have ways to play around them. Quasar only has one negate per turn, but stays on the field preventing attacks into it. This however loses to any second effect, even the stealing effects we commonly see. Stuff like change of heart, snatch steal, etc… Blazar leaves the field so it doesn’t lose to those types of effects, but it leaves you wide open to attacks. Sifr is again, only a monster negate and loses to stuff quasar loses too, but will commonly be able to stop destruction based board breakers as well. Omni’s are fine when they’re hard to get to. Triple Quasar was a thing but was considering very high roll and not viable, same with Blazar and Sifr. To compare Quasar to the extremely generic omni negates of today is not ignorant, but shows you do understand the design behind any of the level 12’s at all.
I think the real problem isn't that there are good generic boss monsters, but rather that they've become too accessible to too many archetypes. Superheavy was really the death bell of "this is far, far too much material, allowing for generics plus in-engine plus negation resistance", but then Snake Eyes happened. I have lost a game to Snake Eyes to someone who had bricked for three turns, had no board presence, no cards in hand, and a mediocre graveyard, and drew Snake-Eyes Ash after I burnt my resources getting him to that point. Seven minutes later, the game was over. Off one fucking card. Apo is a fine ban target, but it won't do anything to fix the game until half the Snake-Eyes cards are completely forbidden. I'd love to see Ash stay forbidden as long as Yatagarasu at this point.
Agree. A lot of it is that card design has gone to shit. Now one card has an on-summon effect that goes +1, a GY effect that goes +1 and a recurrence effect. All with zero downsides. I hate that. In terms of what good design should be, I always bring up D.D. Warrior Lady (you get rid of an opponent’s monster, but also lose yours, fair trade-off) and Stardust Dragon (protection effect but by using it you don’t have Stardust on the field until the end phase, leaving you open). Stardust recurs itself, but at the time of release you kind of had to work to get it out, so it makes sense you’d be rewarded for doing so. Now every card does everything for nothing in exchange. Giving only 1 effect to each card would be a step in the right direction imo.
Cards like accesscode, baron and verta should be be archetype specific, if they require a specific monster type to to summon the would be a lot more reasonable, i.e halq should halq should require a chryston card + tuner to make.
Big boss monsters should need at least one material of their own archetype to be made. Apollousa at least one high level fairy monster, Borrel-Savage at least one Rokket monster, Baronne at least one Fleur monster, Accesscode at least one Code Talker etc.
Or they can still be summon by using generic material But you must have some specific field spell to active their effect Or You have to pay other card from their archetype as cost to active effect Like Accescode talker must ban other code talker to active it effect,Borreload need rocket field spell on the field to active it effect,...
I have a great idea for Accesscode's summoning requirement: _4 Cyberse monsters, including a Link-5 or higher monster_ In the anime, Accesscode was summoned using four monsters, one of which was Firewall Dragon Darkfluid, a Link-5 monster. So, I thought it would be fitting for Accesscode to require a Link-5 or higher monster. This obviously also makes Accesscode's summon more demanding to offset its effects.
@@nguyenlightduy7020There is a simpler solution for borreload, make it need to pop one of your dragons to use its negate. Would be way worse for generic decks since you lose the big body on negate, but rokkets can just make one of their main deck monsters explode.
I gotta disagree about Zeus. It would probably be better if it wasn't a quick effect or had stricter requirements, but as is, it's basically a generic omni negate in all but name for *any* deck that can churn out two monsters of the same level in main phase one.
Ya ignoring how no a board wipe and a negate is not the same thing, Zeus can only be made going second. The problem in this video was the amount of generic negates you can put up going first which ends the game right there. Zeus not being a part of that immediately differentiates it from that discussion
@@BreadBoyWeeb it's still a generic over centralizing boss with interruption. Yeah it's not turn one, but isn't it still the same death of creativity that you mentioned? If your issue is generic turn one negates, then the issue isn't just with the bosses, but the engines that churn them out.
@@wanderlustwarrior No, because accesscode ends the game. Zeus does not, its not over centralizing at all. Name me a format where Zeus was over centralizing.
@@BreadBoyWeeb Sure. Since you mentioned and showed Master Duel in your video, a very quick search shows that Zeus is literally *right behind Baronne* at 9th in usage out of all cards, above every other Extra Deck monster, *and* is a top 25 finisher (previously at 15th). Seems like a centralizing game ender to me... I decided to try your video because I wanted to hear a new take, particularly when you claimed to be talking about creativity. But you seem inconsistent (Accesscode isn't a turn one card itself either, for example), avoidant (to the question of creativity after you brought it up in the video), and combative for no reason.
@@BreadBoyWeeb To be fair, Apollousa running out of atk doesn't end the game, but she's usually not alone... Zeus needs an answer asap or you lose your field cause you weren't aggressive enough, and sure, you don't instantly die and have the chance to draw the out (Imperm, Kaiju, Droplet, etc), but like with full board of negates, if you don't, you're cooked (I'm still waiting for that madlad who summons it turn 1...)
And im here playing obelisk deck and sacred beasts while everyone spamming fallen of albaz and shit like that . 5 games in a row they had the same deck damn..
These are good responses but I'm gonna say gooners are to blame. Name me a deck that doesn't use a little girl as an extender. No Traptrix, no dogmatika, no skystriker, few hand traps
The game has come to a point in which there's a very streamlined win condition for any deck of whatever format which is, "survive turn 2 and win on turn 3" This means that you have to have interruptions on your first board and the more the better, every deck can set up 8k damage on a single line of play if they go uninterrupted so it doesn't really matter what your deck can do. Banning generic extra deck staples only hurts rogue decks, the days of setting 1 and pass are long gone. The only difference between the game now and back then is that your interruptions back then were traps that you couldn't search and you had to wait a few turns to assemble lethal damage because of a lack of synergy between cards, meaning you had to draw everything instead of building a board. The main issue is not the generic extra deck but the fact that every deck can win on their first battle phase.
I honestly would like to see more decks veer away from extra deck dependencies. I loved playing monarchs and nekroz because the primary focus was on your main summoning mechanic. Was nekroz able to go into their extra deck? Sure. But it wasn't a necessity. While I havent touched yugioh in a couple of years, i would like to see some kind of 'soft' power level reset.
Gotta recommend Dogmatika. While it uses the extra deck it just sends them from the extra deck immediately to the grave and uses their graveyard effects. You can also combine them with Nekroz and their boss monster Alba Zoa forces you opponent to send 8 cards from their extra deck to the grave We had a format with a much weaker power level recently but unfortunately the January banlist and Snake Eyes messed it up in the TCG
@@Honest_Mids_Masher That sounds like an interesting deck. I like the concept of that, doesn't sound too far off from Nekroz sending extra decks monsters for ritual summoning. Thank you for sharing!
@@Azraaiyl no problem if you send your herald of the Arc light from extra deck to grave you can search the Nekroz side of the deck or the dogmatika side of the deck btw and it's not once per turn so adding 3 is a good idea.
No banlist, 60-card Singleton is the most fun I've ever had playing Yu-Gi-Oh. Its enough of a shakeup to the way you build a deck, and building a consistent deck with the simple restriction of everything being allowed, but limited to 1, such that the game is sorta self-balanced.
Yugioh is incredibly small compared to the other tcgs. Its killed itself in my area due to casuals being non existant and the game costing an arm and a leg. The only place the scene is growing is when its for cold hard cash which is almost always powered by sponsorships or konami lying about paying people.
@@darthargus7216 Are you suggesting that the popularity of something is a reflection of it's quality? In that case, games like the annual COD releases must be awe inspiring masterpieces of gaming in your mind.
Very well made points! I got back into the game a bit over a year ago with MD and I've been exclusively been playing Insect decks, because they're my favorite animals. Recently however, I'm thinking about quitting the game, because... well, duels just feel unfair 90% of the time. You almost exclusively face Snake-Eyes or Branded and on the occasion where I do break through their defenses... they just get everything back, immediately. They get rewarded for my efforts of breaking their formation. A gift-basket because I killed their creatures. No matter how well I play, it simply doesn't matter, they'll just play a single card on the next turn, do their entire combo all over again and end me. It's no fun. Insects, I feel, are extremely well designed cards. They have a lot of strong monsters that don't rely on simply preventing your opponent from playing. They are excellent at swarming and filling the board, much like you'd imagine from the animals they're based on. Their smaller monsters arn't just combo pieces, they can offer solid interruption, at a reasonable cost (Sting & Scale Bomber for instance). On top of that, you don't really have one-card-combos, reaching your boss monsters is a collaborative effort of several of your cards, which feels really nice. And best of all, they commonly lock you into the type. You need to rely on their own extra deck monsters, instead of just getting the beloathed creatures you speak of in this video. But I can't help but observe that what they do get is mere scraps compared to how each popular storyline archetype gets busted card after overpowered card. Part of me doesn't even WANT more support, in fear it'd just be absurd overpowered stuff that isn't fun at all. I suppose what I'd want is the obscene powercreep to somehow be dialed back, rather than that my own preferred cards also become that. A thought I had on how to balance the generic boss monsters would be to maybe implement something like Rush Duel's "Legend" cards. Designate every overpowered extra deck monster something you may only have ONE of. You get Accesscode OR Borreload Savage OR Baronne OR Apollousa. Never all of them.
1. "Just draw the out bro" mentality. 2. Kaiju's are themselves a problem ruining the game. Uninteractive and not well designed nor fun. 3. Unless you're running Lava or Sphere you still got several generic negate monsters you have to play around on high roll boards. 4. Running a non-engine card in the main deck when you're not playing with Side Decks is sacky, especially considering you're not guaranteed them in your opening hand, and they're most of the time dead going first.
I agree with most of the video except that I think baronne should’ve had a restriction like synchron tuner considering it’s part of the Fleur archetype. I also believe accesscode should’ve required at least one Cyberse monster for how good it is. The type of generic cards I like would be I:p and the link 2 and 3 knightmares and all the ones you mentioned as well. I don’t like savage dragon though. I think Konami should print better archetype boss monsters. An example would be comparing baronne with crystal clear wing synchro dragon for speedroids. The summoning condition alone makes baronne better than the in archetype boss monster.
Baronne, Underworld Goddess, Ty-Phon, and Zeus are part of the exception of generic bosses and should be the standard since they're limited by either what makes them i.e. Ty-Phon needing the opponent to summon from the Extra Deck 2+ times in the last and/or current turn, Zeus needing an XYZ monster on your field to have battled within the turn and Underworld still requiring 3 monsters of your's minimum to make, or what their effects do i.e. Baronne is a once while face up Omni Negate that has an effect that actually encourages players to get back into their main combo by spinning itself back. Dis Pater, while considered generic by some, is actually a lot more dragon centric needing Dragon non Tuner(s) for its summon. I think Promethean Princess is actually an alright example of the generic boss monster because even though it can be made with any 2-3 monsters, it locks you into Fire while face up and needing Fire monsters for its other effects where, if the best decks weren't Fire, it's a really good equalizer for Fire based strategies that takes some thought into how to play it rather than dumping all of your deck into an Apollousa or Borreload Savage plus friends.
Dis Pater wasn't generic until Accel Stardust and Crimson Dragon were printed. Now any deck can run it. Also, I personally think Accesscode isn't part of the problem. All the other cards you named (besides Baronne) are strong go-second cards, and if you have enough resources left over after playing through an opponent's board and make Accesscode on top of another 3k beater, you honestly deserve the win.
@@issacsantana6419You're definitely underestimating Barrone as a going second card. It contests two interruptions on it's own. Sure it sees more use as a going first negate but the pop and the negate when you're up against an already established board is a godsend.
The biggest issue is that Konami has thrown out the concept of trade-off they established (at least in theory) at the beginning of the game: Normal Monsters are strong, Effect Monsters are weak, Spell Cards situational and Trap Cards slow. And boss monsters are hard to summon. Cards need trade-offs. If it is easy to get on board, it cannot also have good effects and high ATK/DEF. One of these has to give. If Baronne had 2000ATK 1500DEF, people could just out the card in battle. Which makes it really easy to bait that negate for fear of getting destroyed before using it.
I agree, i think the concept of trade-off is very crucial in strategy game, especially the turn based one, people seems to forgot how to balance stuff, now it feels like almost every new cards has to be better than what comes before them, to the point where their effect become ridiculously broken while having YUGE stat
To be fair, if they removed op generic extra deck monsters, they should get MORE support for other cards. And there are so many archetypes that need support that this seems impossible.
Fur Hire is another good example of a deck that can use Baronne as a supplementary tool, since being able to use hop-ear with Rafale to go into Baronne on the opponent's turn after burning the Rafale effect negate (or getting kaiju'd :p) is very efficient, and since special summoning monsters Fur Hire is really important to activate their effects, having another avenue to do so with Baronne tag out gives it some seriously strong synergy. Folgo is still the central piece of their gameplan, Barrone's just another supporter. Savage is good too, but because of the levels it's more awkward to make than Baronne. FH tends to want to play a wider board, so going all-in on something like Appo usually is overkill.
@@BreadBoyWeeb Tbh it's actually either between OG stardust Dragon (the background of the art is soo beautiful and I'm a huge Yusei fan) and Shooting Majestic Star dragon (once again beautiful background and the monster itself) Honorable mention would be Satellarknight Triverr (XYZ I know) what's yours?
Remember when being able to otk was like a special attribute to a deck? That’s not even thought about anymore with stuff like accesscode and everything just getting a free 5k beater
This is my new favorite Yu-Gi-Oh binge channel.
This is how you know you’re doing something right!
In my opinion to fix this meta is to bring Kashtiera and Tearelemts to full power so we have 3 mata tear 0 decks that counter eachothers and can be mixed with eachothers.
Full power tear will make Shaddol and Branded more powerful and a valuable option to play.
Kashtiera swordsoul would get famous.
Another thing is to make a Stun structure archetype deck. Which can be mixed with Kashtiera to counter the graveyard.
Alongside Floo and Labyrinth such format would be the greatest.
Another thing they can do is bring a new version of the Egyptian Gods giving them their full power from the anime. Also make a Link 3 version of them.
In addition to Mimick Puppet new support such format would satisfy everyone. It would be a mata tear 0 and diverse at the sametime.
@@ailediablo79 I like this idea, even if it fails once done, in concept it does provide the possibility of doing somehting interesting.
Having 10+ tier 0 decks running around? Honestly that would be pretty fun.
A chaotic rock-paper-scissors where there are no "this hand trap beats the meta deck so run 3" cards. It would mean the decks would have to become more versatile to be able to fight everything else.
@@GodOfCasuals yes
Generic extra deck monsters should not feature negates. A meaningful interruption should be on an archtype's boss. More xenophobic restrictions.
I disagree completely. A vast majority of decks don't even have access to negates without these generic cards.
@@seldomn06 then they should design decks with their own negates instead of having them shat out a baronne or an apollousa.
Fire Kings is a good way to have interaction without negates.
@@UncleMerlin Barrone's fine though
Then gives those archetypes support. Doing crap like dropping SP LK doesn’t help anyone because those “vast majority of bad decks” that use them means those strong decks can use them too anyway.
Barrone is not fine lol. It should only be used in her archetype or at least come with some form of lock if it’s gonna be a 3k Omni negate pop AND a target pop AND recycle swap into a material if need be.
I’ll just summarize the rant I’ve had with generic extra deck boss monsters with this: No generic boss monster should be better than those you have to work to get. The more generic they are, the weaker their effects should be. That’s how you begin to control the power creep and get more creative archetype boss monsters
Tbh I think that would solve a lot of the game’s problems. Plus, I get so annoyed when I see something like “*insert deck here* deck profile” and it all ends on the same 4 generic ED cards that have absolutely nothing to do with the deck.
Or make monsters with strong effects have low stats that can be run over easier.
I'd be more precise and say "Generic boss monsters should be less strong than non-generic boss monsters coming out around the same time".
You can just look at Gemini monsters as a perfect example of screwed up balance.
Seriously, why do the cards with a hoop to jump to get their Effects get extra weak ones? Especially weird when they did Spirits correctly, built-in drawbacks but strong Effects.
Some people still fail to realize that Konami doesn't care about the state of their card game; all they care about is printing stronger and stronger cards so you'll keep buying packs to compete
90% of extra decks today all look the same 💀
That is when happens when you make broken archetypes that don’t come with any locks whatsoever lol. And people why people are gravitating toward stun and floods.
To be fair, this has been the case for a long time. Especially starting from the Synchro Era. Of course, there would be slight differences depending on the Deck, but probably half of it was the same.
@@mrharvy100 When archetypes don't have decent enough boss monsters*
Not every archetype has extra deck monsters or the extra deck monsters they have are kinda weak. Look at Volcanics, for example. They are more playable after the new support but if you want to play a pure version of the deck (AKA no Horus, Snake-Eyes, etc) you are going to need something else to back you up since your two boss monsters (Emperor and Doomfire, love them both btw) are probably not going to be enough. This is where the generic extra deck comes in to give a Volcanic player options to remove backrow, deal with high stats monsters, recover carsd from the grave, etc.
I 100% agree that many decks runs cards like Knightmare Unicorn. It gets generic and it is sometimes boring for being predictable. But those generic cards also give archetypes with little or no extra deck monsters a better fighting chance by covering certain weaknesses or giving the deck options that in archetype it would probably not have at all.
It's a shade topic since generic boss monsters make every meta deck aim towards the same goal... A board full of negates. But at the same time, generic boss monsters also help weaker archetypes that otherwise would have a far less methods to face more competent decks... This is not a topic that I enjoy to be honest and my takes on this situation are both hate and love for generic extra deck options : /
@@DaemonRaygeThat is statement made by someone who has never played the game passed 2005.
Baronne had no business being a generic synchro
Imagine your boss monster not asking for Fleur Synchon... bruh
IMO should have required 1 Synchro Tuner and 1 Chevalier de Fleur.
@@professortrickroom3777so its unplayable and no one would care about it, good idea
@@professortrickroom3777probably just one of those not both
I just think it makes perfect sense to lock Baronne behind Accel Synchro.
The problem is that the extra deck went from being a boss monster gallery into a second hand full of the strongest extenders. Extra deck monsters should be the end of a play, not win more cards on demand.
My man could speak any language in the world and he chose FACTS
I always though extra deck extenders was the biggest mistake ever made.
@@josephcourtright8071we couldn't have guessed the game was gonna go a victim to the capitalism.... If it stayed like that classic fusuon deck, and maybe slightly powerful XYZ monsters, then would be okay. Other than that, it's a big no logic wise and entertainment wise. And of course; economy-wise. Also, synchro mechanic is too unnecessary to me, because of a Tuner title. In this game ye literally have acrhetyoes, elements, monster types, different sorts of effects, star levels .... Ye already have many different variants, ye didn't have to add another variant of 'whether or not havung the title of Tuner'
Nah bro fuck Baronne that card easily outshines all but a handful of synchros in the game. 1 tuner + 1 non-tuner and no further requirements or setup required to make an omni that also DESTROYS is just apalling. Card is so insane that even something like snake eyes will slot it in as the only synchro besides formula to climb into her.
Oh trust me; it’s horrid
But I might have made a card that could have been so powerful, it could prevent the entirety of the extra deck from even being put in play.
A new time wizard card that could either banish your extra deck or your opponent’s, but it is difficult to summon as you need to monster reborn one of your 3 time wizards to bring it out
T.W.O.T + other time wizard fusion (X3 time wizards) = this card
Kashtira and ash=Barrone🤣🤣 3asy. Negate snake eyes with ash then snake eyes take ash😳😳=barrone 🤣🤣.
@@lip124 yeah, but it’s not that easy for some of us; take me for example; I play toons and a hermos deck revolving around time wizard, what do I do then? I’m skint on sr and ur materials, and I haven’t the heart to dismantle what I like and am efficient with compared to a meta deck I know next to nothing about.
What then? Huh?
Cope hard.
No one likes unplayable boss monsters that die to smashing ground.
You are lying to yourselves otherwise.
Old ygo was just chaos Monarchs everywhere for boss monsters as fusions sucked
@@dubstepsoundwave-yo8te Brother if ur playing toons even getting to baronne is gonna be an uphill battle for you. You have to wait until konami decides your worse-than-edison archetype deserves to have functional new cards.
I think what’s annoying is that most generic boss monsters negate. It feels hopeless when your opponent has 4 say “No” set up on their first turn. That’s why Zeus doesn’t feel annoying.
This is why I play lava golem.
@@nightworrior721this is why I run droplets and ty-phoon
Zeus is annoying depending on the deck. A 3k non OPT send board wipe + how incredibly easy he is to bring out is why he should never be allowed at more then 1.
@@mrharvy100 "should never be alowed at more then one" bro, exept like zoo no single deck would play more then 1 anyways. How i know that? Because hes at 3 in tcg and not a single deck plays him at 3. Not even purrely xD
@@mrharvy100 If your running more than 1 zeus you might wanna reevaluate your decks. Everyone only run 1.
We can fix everything wrong with Yu-gi-oh with just one thing: bring back the concept of drawback. Most cards don't have drawbacks, or minor ones, or ones that actually become perks. If we want to go further, not making everything require generic materials would be nice.
Drawbacks and side effects is such a great point! Imagine if Baronne said pay 2000 LP per turn or destroy this card 😂
@@dmelleux maybe not that extreme, but you're stupid to deny that cards should have drawbacks. Thats risk reward. And that was what yugioh had a lot of, you risked a lot but you got rewarded a lot. Now its literally nothing but reward and no drawbacks to it. hence why going second usually resorts in surrends online in MD.
I don’t think it’s just to sell cards but also an excuse for Konami to not have to bother creating unique ED support for every archetype.
Why bother creating individually big bosses, negaters and disruptors when you can just give them all easy access to Barrone, savage and access code?
Or why bother creating unique individual extenders for certain types like fire when they can all just utilize promethean princess?
Probably but the issue is when it trickles into all the meta decks relying on them. If these cards were only available to garbage decks that would be fine LOL
Exactly these same people going “my garbage deck needs it for a better endboard” ignore that these better decks can use it too. It’s the same argument why Maxx should be banned or not: My garbage deck can win if I resolve Maxx C vs those same strong decks can use Maxx C too
Except Konami is shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. They are obligated to create a certain number of cards at a specific frequency. A lot of times, Konami creates garbage useless pack filler a because they need to figure out how to fill out packs. Instead of creating uselsss pack filler, they can create archetype unique boss monsters that have very strong effects that support their archetype loop.
It's easier to balance outliers. Let's look more in-depth: is Snakes Eyes really broken, or are the generic cards that it makes more broken? The answer is the generic cards are, but unfortunately the Snake Eyes cards are going to be the ones hit while the generic boss monsters will live to play in another Tier 1 or Tier 0 deck.
If all generic boss monsters got banned, then we can evaluate how strong each deck is based on what they get access to in their archetype. Then if the gameplay loop of something like Snake Eyes is too strong, THEN you can limit and ban the outliers.
Rinse and repeat for every new archetype that comes out. But instead, we're throwing 20 new things on every new banlist. If we banned the generic boss monsters, Konami only has to hit the egregiously terrible archetype cards which would exist strictly due to poor card design. But that's way better than balancing based on a combo line that leads to an unexpected boss monster like say King Calamity or Kali Yuga. Those cards weren't meant to leave their archetype, but certain cards were simply too generic that the combo lines to them existed.
So all in all, if they make everything less generic, then you have way less outliers to account for, Konami can make more cards with less pack filler, and the power ceiling of decks can be controlled more easily. Konami being lazy doesn't help them sell more product.
@@mrharvy100 The better decks don't benefit from it as much as much as weaker decks do however. Better decks already have a wincon, weaker decks sometimes lack an actually good wincon and these cards give it to them. Manaddium is literally rogue tier because of this and would be far from playable if it's goal was Primeheart OTK you'd be better of playing galaxy eyes.
Maxx C benefits stronger decks but punishes weaker decks by forcing you to run 9 cards which could've been dedicated to countering the meta. Maxx C and generic negates are absolutely incomparable
Through Maxx C argument is a deflection because if it was the case then TCG would be stronger than both Master duel and OCG. This boils down to needing to force Konami to ban generic bosses such as Barrone, Chengying, and Access Code. Plus TCG would benefit from banning some of the generic negates.
Generic boss monster not only bad mechanically, but also aesthetically weird, imagine playing rock mining deck who its gameplay are digging your main deck (excavating cards) and your boss monster is a flower-knight lady, gun themed dragon, and a fairy with a bow. And then your next turn you summon big robot with a lance
Making a whole video to argue banning Apollousa is wild LOL
I agree with the bulk of the video though. Less generic ED boss monsters, please.
Yeah. I can't believe people actually think apollousa is a problem. Like... they are so fragile, unless Masquerena is used, who is who should be banned
As a HERO player, I'm kinda frustrating to see people adding the DPE engine in their "generic negate/pop board". It's just when you see your favorite boss monster being played in such a deranged deck full of generic negates and pops when it should've been your exclusive boss hurts me. And it's also kinda funny how DPE is also a good counter to its own deck and seeing you lose to your own boss monster is just kinda sucks
Also BAN BARONNE I'M TIRED OF SEEING THIS CRAP IN EVERY SINGLE DECK, SYNCHRO OR NOT. PEOPLE ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT JUST BAN IT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
100% agree. I play a Cyberse Code Talker deck, and when I see people link into Accesscode Talker it makes me so angry. "The F*** you mean he gets to play my Link-4? He doesn't have a single Cyberse monster in his deck!"
@@heyarnold2006 me running codetalker and the newer firewall dragon was fun but i never knew accesscode talker was a huge issue until more recently lol.
'In mannadium,you crush your balls' seems totally accurate but not in the right way
I love Mannadium!! We're finally at full power!! I played through ash, imperm, and Nibiru, and I still won!!! To be fair, my opponent didn't have much other than a bunch of hand-traps 😂😂
The most fun games I've ever played recently are when both me and my opponent don't use those generic extra deck monsters. I can only imagine the relief they feel when I Special Summon Trumpeter or Big Waraji with their own effects and lock myself into pure Superheavy Samurai.
The Prize card formats were unreal. How did that even happen?
Konami of TCG inherited the terrible business practices from upper deck. They haven't made a prize cards that was a random promo for Japan in forever. I'm pretty sure Minerva was the last one they did like that
Epespcially for Minerva cuz Lightsworn decks would've had more representation in 2015 and 2016 if she wasn't a prize card.
Archetypal boss monsters should ALWAYS be tribal locked. Having them be generic negates any point in playing their home archetype. Do I think generic boss monsters shouldn't exist? No but they shouldn't be the most powerful options and feature some of the most powerful negates. That should be the trade off for mixing engines and decks, you don't have the level of power a pure or mostly pure deck could have.
I don't mind archetypal monsters being generic if their effects aren't generic or are better in their home deck (and decks that play in a similar way).
If that's the case, then all handtraps should have a negative effect or be banned from the game.
@@jo-neallewis6385honestly I’m fine with hand traps but I think they need to be tuned. Either make them archetypal (requiring specific cards on board to use them) or make them actual trap cards so they can get focused hate cards. We’d prolly have a lot less Omni negates if hand traps were actually traps. Boss monsters that stop s/t’s could be way more viable design wise etc.
@@TheBeastlyBomber So you prefer handtraps like the heralds ? (These have a reason to be monsters, it locks them to decks that mainly use fairies and allows pitching a herald to use another)
@@dudono1744 in a sense yeah. I’d prefer more disruption based effects rather than flat out negation but yeah handtraps that have a cost. I also think they can still be trap cards and limit where they can be played. For example have a trap card that changes a card’s battle position but needs to discard a rock monster from hand to allow you to use it from hand.
Honestly they also need to stop making cards that will obviously be used in a ftk and also just ban ftk cards in general. The new gimmick puppet support is a consistent ftk that can do it in more than one way while also being unaffected by monster effects which is stupid.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING HOW WELL DESIGNED ZEUS IS
Debatable... Just ask Zoodiac players on Drident...
@theazuredemon4854 Yea but honestly zoo has been powercrept. It could come off the list and only be decent
Free board wipe for any Xyz that's not HOPT isn't good card design. It's only less hated than generic monsters cause its a going 2nd tool
@@fudouakio4759 The fact that it's a going second tool is exactly what makes it good card design
@@theazuredemon4854 zoodiac is not a good deck. It has a ton of its power back in MD and isn't even remotely meta
Back and forth absolutely has been (mostly) power crept out of the game. That's why past formats are so popular because they let people have interactive matches more consistently than current Snake-Eye format.
I think adding secondary ban list like they have in duel links would help a lot. Sure, you can have any of these awesome Omni-negates: but, you can have only one or two of them.
(I would combine both TCG/OCG style ban list with the Duel Links style ban list; not replace one with the other.)
I have made that argument as well. I 100% agree. A mix of both would be able to balance things in ways that either one could not do alone.
honest to god agreed. A way to limit negates is needed. I agree ash SHOULD stay but i cant deny there's benefits to it being gone. Konami is too lazy, too ignorant about the game's health, to really take that step though. However nothin excuses generics and link kuri. Link kuri got banned for the sins of savage borreload, appo and barrone.
Honestly? Yeah this would fix a ton of issues in yugioh. I think they are just bery afraid of changing the formula and causing backlash.
Having played since there releases ip and appo need to go. If a card isn't power crept after half a decade then there is a reason why.
The fact that SE can casually abuse IP and Appo shows the folly of a no lock archetype + broken ED generics especially the link ones lol
Simple and effective niches that are difficult to power creep without printing the same card with more numbers? Cards are allowed to be good for a long time.
I feel like the mistake was making promethian princess.
I feel like snake eyes would have a slightly harder time abusing both i.p and appolousa with princess.
But yeah… generic ED is a bad idea.
Good example is like mannadium is the same synchro end board with primeheart being outclassed by anything that is generic.
Same with dis pater.
Appo is fragile as heck and is only a problem cuz masquerena offers her so much protection. Get rid of masquerena and little knight and appo are gonna see way less play.
Baronne is probably one of the best, and possibly strangest example of this problem. It was released alongside Crystal Clear Wing Synchro Dragon, the supposed boss monster of Speedroids. They're both Level 10 WIND Synchro monsters, but Baronne is generic and Crystal Clear Wing is an Accel Synchro monster, and yet Baronne's effect is so much better. Speedroids lock you into WIND monsters, which Baronne is, so there is pretty much no reason to ever go into Crystal Clear.
It's extremely annoying when I build a deck for some niche archetype, and I decide to check out some decklists for tips, the extra deck is 2% that archetype, 98% generic spam.
There's so many interesting decks out there, it sucks to see them get ruined like this. And, like, Baronne has her own deck, but nobody pays any attention to it since she can be used in every other deck.
What we need is to add an extra format without any competitive-related cards where we can go and actually play the game (for casual and new players or anyone who just want to enjoy what yugioh has to offer) and the other format would be our current chaotic yugioh where we can start every turn with forbidden droplet and win or lose trying. The key point is to make the separation between cards that are made for just winning (ignoring if the opponent will have any chance to fight back or not) and cards that are made for having fun and having a good time, where the win happens with style and grace and a certain level of respect, also allowing both players to show their best and focusing on strategies and the combat between monsters, that's what yugioh is supposed to be about. The competitive mechanics like negations have to be designed correctly in order to be implemented into the game and they have failed at doing that so might as well just throw them into a different format where we'll have to deal with them just if we feel like doing it or just go to the other format where they do not exist so the game actually happens and each duel doesn't feel like wasting time.
I am not a yugiboomer, I HAD yugioh cards as a kid and playground rules played it with friends but that’s it. I got back into the game over last year and have 400+hrs on MD. I’m not blinded by nostalgia or any past formats, this game just sucks to play a lot of the time so I agree with what you’re saying.
It was a bit of a wake up call for me to invest less time in this game when I saw how opposed a good chunk of the community is to changes like this so now I’ve been playing MTG and it’s honestly just kinda better. Again, I say this as a still yugioh fan that loves the game, but this game is broken right now lol
boy i know you ain't saying shit magic way worse bro what are you playing too casual like there not turn zero shit
@@robertaguilar7628As a person who play magic for a while you're definitely not wrong. It's also pretty expensive even if you play online.
Ur punctiation is so bad i kinda dont know what you're trying to say.@@robertaguilar7628
@@robertaguilar7628 how is magic worse? At least games don't end at first or second turn
@@robertaguilar7628 Ur punctuation is so bad I really don’t know what you’re saying completely.
This aged well
I really do believe modern yugioh should adopt Duel Links banlist where you can only run 1 limited card and 2 semi'd cards. But only for the extra deck.
Snake Eyes too strong? Semi limit IP + SP + Promethean princess + Amblowhale. Changes how the deck functions and builds with 0 bans.
Accesscode + Update Jammer become a problem? Limit them.
Limit To 3 Baronne, Appolusa, borreload savage, Bagooska, and every other generic negate to stop decks from vomiting them all out.
I agree with this. This would force a lot more variety in how decks work instead of going down the same combo lines, and can potentially bring about deck variety. This still doesn't quite solve the issue that some decks are stronger than others, but you can't solve everything at once.
@@wanderlustwarrioreverything he said does nothing to the meta as everyone plays thoughs ratios anyway
Would restrict dk building lol
I don't really see the problem with generic extra deck monsters, that's how edison format was. It's the having generic extra deck monsters that lock you out of playing, and they need to chill on making those kinds of cards. One thing when it's like red rose dragon or evilswarm exciton knight for a board wipe scenario. A whole nother story when they have multiple omni negates along with flood gates.
It's hard to pin down exactly when things started to go wrong. I think it started with the +1 disruptions. That is, a negation or a removal effect that comes at little to no cost to the user. Previously, disruption came at some kind of costs, whether it be a discard, a lifepoint cost, or the card itself being lost, but with +1 disruptions there's no disadvantage to just spamming out as many as possible, and negating literally everything. This really started getting bad in the pendulum era.
I don't much like link monsters. Links were created effectively to nerf the pendulum mechanic, which itself was overpowered and created a mechanical floodgate issue. The big problem I have with links design is how most of them lack any real identity. With synchros you needed level combinations, with XYZ you had an axis that you needed to build around, and fusions had to be fused by specific materials. Links just required bodies... any bodies. They got scapegoat and gofu banned, because suddenly all those largely useless tokens became overpowered from a card advantage perspective. All decks started to lose their identity, because their game plan all reduced down to the exact same tactic: spam bodies onto the field, no matter what they were. This is compounded by the fact that Konami also changed their card design philosophy, where instead of making archtype specific restrictive monsters powerful, they made the generic monsters the most powerful. This made it so every pack had a $50 UR that every deck needed, and a bunch of more balanced cards nobody would play due to that aforementioned UR being the better than all of them.
The +1 disruption problem further reduced card identity. To give an example, I'm going to compare Emergency Teleport with Raigeki. You'd think those cards aren't that similar, but when staring down negation they really are. If Titanic Galaxy is on the field, they're effectively reduced down to the same thing, which is an opportunity consumption. Raigeki destroys all of the opponents monsters, but Emergency Teleport goes into a Punk combo that will also get rid of all of the opponents monsters. Because of the threat each presents, Titanic Galaxy must negate them when activated. So, the two different effects have been reduced completely in identity to "force out one disruption".
Combine this all together, and our decks have no real identity anymore. Deckbuilding consists of putting in as many starters as possible, as many hand traps as possible to stop their starters... for every deck. Victory is decided largely by whether I've opened enough starters to muscle through their hand traps, and vice versa... no matter what those starters are. Limiting access doesn't make the game fun or fair, it just makes the game sacky.
Links are a mechanic about resources and stats.
For example, link-1 and link-2 monsters can have good effects, but weak stats. Link-4s and link-5s can have great stats and great effects, but huge drainages of resources.
Pendulum had its fair share of drawbacks and is arguably, aside rit summon, the worse option you got. I wont deny its done its damage. But in the end, its NO WHERE the cause of today's issues. That my friend is searchers and special summoning, not pendulum summoning itself. (look at snake eyes poplar. its not a pendulum card is it? No its not.)
One thing is all agreed though: summoning should have conditions.
I’m glad you had the point about Swordsoul.
I enjoyed the deck a lot because most of it was in archetype engine, Tenyi (which might as well be in archetype) and using a few generics just to supplement and play through a few disruptions.
That is the ideal for me. Archetypes that function on their own.
(sword soul is braindead and still is.)
But at least its not nearly as dumb as tearlaments or snake.
For me, when it comes to generic boss monsters, I only use them if the monster fits with the deck's identity and spirit. Here are some examples below:
Blue-Eyes:
- Number 38 (LIGHT Dragon)
- Zeus (Kaiba used LIGHT Machines, and it's board wipe effect can be seen as a callback to CED).
- Any Galaxy-Eyes card (Galaxy-Eyes can be seen as a spiritual successor to Blue-Eyes).
- Soldier of Chaos (Kaiba teamed up with Yugi before).
- Linkuriboh (I just thought it'd be funny because Kaiba made Duel Links, so I figured he might have his own Linkuriboh. Also needed to help get eggs in the GY or provide protection).
Speedroid:
- Baronne De Fleur (WIND Synchro Monster).
- Wind Pegasus @Ignister (Level 7 WIND target for Clear Wing Rider)
Rokkets:
- Starving Venom (DARK Dragon; also good Super Poly target).
- Borreload Savage Dragon (Revolver used this, AND Savage Dragon feels right at home alonside his Borrel pals! I feel sad for him because he's always homesick whenever he's used outside Rokkets).
It's always been my opinion that the game didn't need new extra deck monsters after XYZ. Link especially feels like it cheapens the challenge that used to come with making extra deck cards (Synchros being tuner dependent, XYZ being same level dependent, Fusion being card effect dependent, for the most part)
Pendulum is obviously a whole other can of worms but Link really made the game too fast.
(Btw don't call me a yugiboomer for this lol I love modern yugioh I play it like 10 hours a week)
Link was created to balance the garbage that was Pendulums and other Extra deck spamming breaking the game.
@@nisfornoble4861 But then ironically it became the worst offender lol
I agree xyz was enough. But pendu wasnt an issue and isnt an issue. Extra decks were far more than abused with or without them. Synchro was a mixed back, it took a LOT of effort for stardust synchron to OTK for maybe one omninegate. Now? FUCK NO, it'd be the easiest thing in the do to have a floating omni-negate that acts as a boss.
Xyz especially abused the extra deck in some archetypes it introduced, horribly balanced as it was, at least it wasnt always easy. i feel that more unique takes on formats and cards woulda been better than new summoning gimmicks over and over. Rush is a interesting format to the game and so was speed duels and turbo duels if turbo was ever really fleshed out.
Id love to see an actual tag-duel format too.
I won’t surrender if my opponent has a field of 3 boss monsters and i have nothing on my field, unless they have barrone de fleur on their field.
The idea that the game will be saved by banning all of the generic boss monsters is a non-starter because we've already seen where this goes. MR4 removed the ability for older decks to access their old generic tools unless Konami deigned to uplift them. Which they did only for decks they wanted to shill leading to two solid tier zero formats where nothing else could compete because their options were limited while the tier zeros were purpose built to steamroll the meta without losing a step. Engines need to be curbed tremendously and redundant staples need to be culled. Generic bosses need to be banned only when they're the obvious problem instead of the decks abusing them. Apollousa has been a terrible Pendulum support card for most of the gap between BODE and PHNI. When it saw play it was due to decks like SHS and now Snake-Eyes being able to spam boards so efficiently they can afford to slap an Apo onto the end board just because.
Well ya that's why I didn't say I want that. I think at the very least rn we should ban Appo. No it will not insta fix the game by itself but the hit would be good for the future of the game
@@BreadBoyWeeb Apo ranging from awful to kind of good in linkspam decks makes it pretty clear to me that the issue is with archetype design and not her. She's only good when a deck can make her and other generic omni-negates while having a solid enough engine to 1. Not be fragile during setup, 2. Be compact enough to run non-engine, and 3. Be resilient enough to crack back within its own engine instead of losing if Apo + Baronne gets outed. All of that is actually a fairly tall order that has happened only three times since she's released. Once during Adamancipator which only had the bodies to perform due to Linkross, again with SHS which had essentially infinite bodies due to too much extension through Scarecrow and Soulpiercer, and now Snake-Eyes which is another case of having too many free bodies along with all the other issues I mentioned earlier tied to the quality of the engine. Mannadium falls into a similar case as the others but it had a lot less success due to various weaknesses with how the deck had to be built and played.
So why harp on Apo?
@geek593 Congratulations, you’re like the only person in here with a brain.
Rogue deserves the opportunity to play and not die to hts like droll, nib, and sometimes even ash. Hell ogre can remove a field spell and hurt bad. Apollousa isnot a problem.
Agree.
In general decks that having no access to initially good "archtype boss monster" would have to use these generic boss monster instead to stay relevant.
Take fabled for example. Does this mean their player had to summon leviathan, instead of any level 10 generic monster? Until konami released more good support for legacy card people will gravitate towards decks that actually being fully supported with its own archtype boss monster thats actually good. It is MR4 ALL OVER AGAIN
Thank you! I got back into yugioh a few years ago after leaving when 5Ds started. I've been checking out different archetypes lately and realized they had themes to them, like Spyral being a Spy ring to take down the opponent's deck. Sky Striker is like watching an anime character use their special armor to transform into different modes to meet their attack and defense needs. It's amazing what the card creators come up with, but then the meta ruins the beauty of the deck's play
Generic extra deck boss monsters kill creativity, yes.
Main deck engines though are also a major problem: it's the top main deck engines that get to those bosses, and unless you're also running a deck fast and strong enough to both play around them *and* OTK, your opponent is always just one card away from just building up *the same board*. And since only certain decks can play that fast, that's another limiter on creativity.
Personally I like the new approach to archetypes, supporting attributes and/or types instead of being locked in names.
Like the Fiendsmith, supporting Light/Fiends.
unfortunately everyone will make Caesar and Beatrice with that 1 card no norm summon engine.
@@souliswinter1024 I doubt they get banned, but time will tell.
yes but there needs to be restriction. bonfire is clear of that. The issue is that the games types dont interact with archetypes. When they should. I like that seeing types are getting love, yugioh once had it as a major mechanic prior to battle city and it was always funny imagining KURIBO SOLOING BLUE EYES but, that is a side point lol. I just wish that archetypes actually considered its type, instead of getting support that abuses it and supplies the archetype MORE freedom than its omni searcher that allows the ENTIRE deck.
Id like to see a highlander format were you could only have one of each card in your decl
Exodia ftk. Hand traps work, but we come back to "draw the out"
It might curb some of that aggravating recursion though. Like there's no point to even wiping a board when they'll just do it all again next turn so it's either otk or don't bother
It would be a start, but they still need to try something to slow power creep. I'm probably wrong, but it feels like I hear about a tier 0 deck every year now.
You got me with the Hollow Knight Theme, City of Tears.
Damn right I did. HK the GOAT, rotting away waiting for Silksong
About time cards the likes of Apollusa and Barrone De Fleur get shit on. I am a passionate ash blossom hater but these "generic boss monster" cards getting hate is good enough for me.
Appo is a fragile monster that is only a problem because of masquerena. Ban masquerena and I guarantee you, appo will see much less play. Same with little knight. I think people only defend or ignore masquerena cuz waifu
I agree 100%, man. I'm playing Mannadium/Scareclaw right now since mannadium is FINALLY at full power. Though Barrone is in my extra deck, i actually try other niche options before resorting to using it. I actually beat Snake-eye without using Barrone. Instead, i used the level 10 Icejade and Adamancipator Dragite.
Thank you someone fells the same pain I do. I hate that these cards don't even let me have one bloody turn.
This is not coming from a yugioh "boomer" mentality. but this is how I view the creep of yugioh:
Synchros were the Harbinger of the end.
XYZs were the beginning of the end
Pendulums is where Yugioh died
Links were beating a dead horse.
Hand traps were the icing on the festering carcass.
This is because Synchros are where the game spiked in power creep due to their inherent speed compared to the game up until that point. XYZs it got even faster. Thats where the true fundamentals started to break down in order to keep up, hand traps replaced traps, turn counts continued to plummet, extra zones, Pendulums convoluted mechanics. Until Yugioh today, competetive 1 turn Solitaire where every card had A thesis paper on it just in hopes of it competing. If I had to point out a specific moment where Yugioh as a game died for me, it was the replacement of "graveyard" with "GY" you could no longer fit the name of one of the core foundational zones in the game on a card anymore.
We lost the game of play and counter play, adapting to each opponent in a game that evolved turn by turn. it devolved into reading the instructions to a new archetype and if you couldnt follow the instructions, then you scoop.
Nah this is yugiboomer behaviour. Synchros caused the end of yugioh? Lmfao the only thing that ever caused problems was pendulums and early links
@@blackbird7781 you didn't read my post it would seem.
@@goddessbraxia oh I did read it. You are just a yugiboomer thinking that extra deck cards besides fusions killed yugioh. Also yugioh is far from dead. You're either a yugiboomer or yugidoomer.
@@blackbird7781 no, if you actually read the post instead of focusing on a choice word to validate calling me a yugiboomer. It states that the cumulation of changes, starting from Synchros, caused a decay of the quality of the game as with each new addition, the power creep of the game accelerated too fast, breaking down the fundamentals of what makes a card game readily engaging and generally accessible. All thats left is a game of glorified competetive solitaire. where every card has a thesis paper on it that no one can be bothered to read them. where the competetive scene is 5 decks on a good week.
@@goddessbraxia yeah i did read and no summoning mechanic hurt yugioh except pendulum and early link
I feel like the hand traps and generic "negation" effect boss monster cards that get splashed in meta decks is what makes this game so frustrating. If they banned the popular hand traps and generic "negation" boss monsters, they could have a fresh start to a balanced Yugioh while creating good in archetype cards for the future of the game.
Bad take. Handtraps and generic interruption tools are necessary evils in any meta period. Without interruption your opponents will just run ftk decks and you cant do anything about it since you just shot yourself in the leg by banning any form of interaction to stop your opponent's plays.
@@user-yq3bv9rf9b any format where droll and nibiru are necessary evils is a toxic format. They should hit FTKs with bans instead of reqiring the playbase to run HTs.
@@UncleMerlin Even if you ban all ftks Handtraps and Interruption will always be relevant. Handtraps and Interruption has always been part of deckbuilding. Its not required and its up to you if you would run it on your deck.
@@user-yq3bv9rf9b Not hand traps entirely really, just one, Ash blossom. That card is a menace and should be banned. It has caused too many frustrating situations and I know I'm not the only one. They should just take Called By The Grave off the banlist entirely to combat it at least.
its really sad how Konami keeps releasing new archetypes that look fun, or support to old archetypes, but are buried under the weight of the meta and power creep
i have seen people often deflect the criticism of modern YGO with "just play GOAT or Edison", but....what if i want to play an old archetype that isn't available on those formats? what if i want to play Ghostrick? what if i want to play Battlin' Boxer? or even a newer archetype that just can't compete with current YGO, what if i want to play Flame Swordsman or Nouvelles? where do i play these archetypes on so i don't get completely overrun?
This is so true. There is no other format than standard competitive 2024 yugioh for the people that just want to enjoy their pet Decks that came to existence in the last 10 years or something.
That's such an easy question to answer. Just find some friends who like playing decks they enjoy.
@@kingnhonj954 This doesnt work, for me at least, because its still not a real format. You are playing with the same 2-3 people at best a non-exist format with no winning reward potential. At this point you are just playing an expensive Uno with family. Some people, including me, want to enjoy their favorite Deck by being able to win sometimes with it in a real scenario.
@@shien-ryu4395 you are still playing mode4n yugioh in the current format.
Reward for winning is always there just have the people come together and make pool for winning.
If you want your deck to win in a "real setting" just pretend you want to play a meta deck.
I mean outside of ghostrick (I shamefully did lose to one though lmao so maybe it has a chance) the others are definitely able to hold there own in the modern game.
I was agreeing in theory with a lot of what you were saying at first, BUT:
How is saying "if your deck is nothing without Apo, you shouldn't have it" any different from saying "you can only play the select archetypes with lots of support and in archetype negates"? How is that any better for creativity?
I made another comment saying something similar in more words, before I got to this line in the video.
There's still options aside of the same suspects, generic for toolbox while specific for Bosses could be a better approach...
Also, Isn't Apallousa an innate -3? The card is only broken on decks who can vomit their deck into the field like Snake-eyes or Block Dragon Adamancipator.
You're expecting this guy to not think biased. He hates appo so blames all problems on a card instead of the cards that make it a problem like masquerena
Bro you called it
I hate generic boss monsters that negate stuff geee. This is the worst design for this game
You also need to consider that changing the whole scheme means that the newest archetype will get the strongest effects and other archetypes are going to have to wait for their wave of support, creating another problem of powercreep, the exact problem we have seen in Cardfight Vanguard
Well, we got two of the culprits down. After the Rarity Collection II, maybe they'll bring Apollousa out to the pasture as well
So... Good news about this came hours ago...
Konami listens to breadboyweeb
What if konami implemented the Legendary system from rush duels into the tcg/ocg banlist for generic boss monsters. For example, let's say both Apo and Access Code get put into the legendary category, that would mean you can either run 1 access code or 1 Apollousa in your deck, but not both nor you would be able to mix it with other generic boss monsters like savage dragon (if it was put in the legendary list). In short it would be like an additional category to the current banlist system: Something like: Banned > Legendary > Limited 1 > Limited 2.
Duel Links also has a system similar to this in its banlist and also due to skill restrictions which makes it so decks feel unique (for the most part) and have to rely on their own boss monsters rather than generic ones.
I dont play rush duel but from your explanation i like this legendary system thing, maybe if it's too harsh they can adjust it a bit, like... you can put multiple legendary card in your extradeck, but you can only control 1 at a time
that could work too! In rush duels there are legendary monsters, spells and traps, you can only run 1 of each max in your deck. For instance, Summoned Skull, Archfiend Soldier, Monster Reborn, Pot of Greed, Mirror Force and Widespread Ruin are all Legendary cards but different type of cards (monster, spell, trap) out of those you can only include 1 of each at 1 copy ma. So if a player picks Summoned Skull, Pot of Greed and Mirror Force then they wouldn't be able to include the other ones in their deck. I know they have fusion monsters too, but I'm not sure if fusion is considered separate from the main deck when it comes to legendary cards. @@maunabesanika
4:59 that snake eyes board is from a snake eyes guide on my channel 😭
I love swordsoul. Really brought in the feeling that the extra deck was a toolbox. The main combo was linear and short (chixao is great because it’s both extension and end board). And gives you access to the entire 8* and 10* synchro pool. And there are some really cool options in there. Like Baxia spins, beserker, and the admantine. Plus baronne wasn’t the only 10 you could use. Qixing and Chungus are also fantastic cards that work better in certain matchups.
Synchro era was the perfect balance of speed and back and forth. That was Yugiohs best era
Nah, it was boring still
Game started being good at duelist alliance
Synchro XYZ pretty much
Nah any deck that can turbo out 4 stardust stuns are not fun
x-saber hand rip back and forth
Xyz era was peak. I love Edison but needing a tuner made it so some decks didn't bother making synchros leaving their toolbox elements unused. Xyz being a more readily available toolbox makes the expected counterplay a lot stronger. Both eras are amazing though.
once they start replacing these boss monster with actually well designed in-archetype boss monsters, then they can start churning the staple end board extradeck monsters out. But they don't, at least not consistantly, Generic cards a perfect for yugioh because it allows stratagies to do something with themselves without the need for these possibly very restrictive in archetype bossmonsters, I would like more decks that end on boards like dragon link again, having the option to go into these generic cards, but still able to fully utalize their own monsters like heavenly spheres and borreload savage ect. The fact is that these cards themselves are also generic (for the most part) but significantly work better in their own achetype. All im saying is, leave both but encentavise in archetype bossmonsters to try and clean out the need for these generically strong cards.
Honestly, my main issue with baronne is the fact that there were no other good level 10 synchros before it. They either had CRAZY restrictions or did close to nothing.
I love seeing people build a Superheavy Samurai Deck and never end on a Superheavy Samurai
new video just dropped love this channel hope you have a good day
Thanks dude, I hope you do too, your support means everything
There’s gotta be a combo that can destroy all these cards that nobody uses that’s the true king of games coming up with something original 🤣
The most fun i've had with the game in the past while was when i made an ftk with earthbound servants. (basically, it involves summoning tokens with black garden, getting greater linewalker out, summon aslla piscu, then remove it from the board via synchro or fusion for game)
Konami probably watched this
See, I think a way to solve this would be to just start xeno-locking decks again. Why in the hell does Snake-Eyes not have a single type/attribute lock anywhere? Even Drytrons has a lock, and a damn well designed one too!
Seriously, best yugioh binge channel out there now. Being straightforward and honest about the state of Yugioh actually makes me feel better about the cards I already own.
I’m glad you enjoy the content! Means the world
And that's why punk gold pride and branded are my favorite decks, they have good aethestic, cool concept, fun playstyle but the most important thing is they use completely unique cards. Both decks have like 1 negate(not even omni ) but also a variety of way to deal with different situations and most of the time create some really interactive duels and remind me why I love this game from the start
I really appreciate the differentiation of Accesscode and Underworld Goddess. Not every generic boss is bad, but there’s a difference between good and bad generics.
MAaaaaaathmeeeeech
indie boss accesscooooode. Underworld goddess usually is fine but I am not big on zeus because slow decks like to board wipe me so fast or use it as a form of control. If he sent himself? Sure but not really big on zeus other than he does look cool. Fair? Kind of but I rate him a harpie feather duster as most kind of annoying...mostly because the send effect besides omni is kind of bull...Exciton knight though? Now that was more fair
Bruh the game has been ruined for a long time
What time you pick changes from person to person but I think the game was broken from the moment it was designed without a resource system
Decks should not be able to vomit out 20+ cards on the first turn, but without any sort of limiting factor it was an inevitability
Yugioh can’t be saved, just enjoy it for the stupid mess it is
That isnt even true. You clearly dont understand the game. But you're right in one case that no recourse system is never a good thing. But yugioh in the older days had limitations. cards didnt search the entire damn deck, grave was a grave, not a extra hand. It wasnt easy to access your extra deck monsters, effects were way more limiting as a whole and archetypes didnt over expand.
The mistake was not having any limitations in the rules such as Duel Links did with deck creation. Or no rules against a summon limit. That was what hand traps were for, to moderate the abuse of current cards. Too bad the best one we have warps the game and has since its major play.
yugioh is fine without a recourse system: its just too late to clean up the mess and get it to a more "clean" state.
Best way to balance the game is that extra deck monsters need ONE of the material to be the same Attribute *or* Type as the extra deck monster. That way you'll need to either play WIND or WARRIOR monsters to make a Baronne.
Im pretty sure this breaks some archetypes in ways they were supposed to function, like it totally negates easy access to the in archetype negate that Pendulum Magicians have in Vortex, as they couldn't make Absolute an archetypal Extra Deck monster in optimal situations and in a consistent manner, as you would have to run specific monsters which aren't worth running, so overall it would lower the powerceiling of many decks that you don't want to decrease.
I guess you could also say in an response to my argument is that you could just hardfuse it,but again you need to run another random one-off.
Borreload should require a dark/light dragon tuner and non tuner. Ed monsters need more requirements like fusions
My idea to fix this is to make a ace list as part of the ban lost. The ace list only allow you one card from the entire list. So if those three card on the list you need to make a choice. If you choose barren de flur, you can not have the other cards in your deck
great video with the bunch of hand traps u need now plus its a 1st go meta to win most of ur games and not to mention there is quite a few generic link cards which are just broken like u said apollouse to mention a few dont get me started on snake eyes the state master duel is in is very bad just hope the ban list doesnt dissapoint us also
Omni negates and apollousa are super toxic. Its like a mini-floodgate that you have to go through before you play the game.
Hey tbf Quasar requires a lot to make but yeah generic omni is bad yeah
In other words you all want boss monsters to die to hammer shot.
Congrats you poven you guys are extremely biased to old ygo 2002
@@soukenmarufwt5224 you are the biased here, i never said it can't have destruction protection. I don't like towers but having some destruction protection is good.
@@nah4467 I know but the end board on Quasar is always about how many negates can be made before the opponent can't play, there is no play around.
@@duduvec5971 You do realize just to get to the level 12 negates you have to jump through many hoops, and commonly they will actually be well designed to offer a decently interesting one for one. Quasar is the only level 12 negate to stay on the field, but because it’s the exception it’s filled with a unique floating effect too.
Compare that to Blazar or Sifr who are also negates but play in their own unique way. Blazar negates a wide variety of things but leaves the field, Sifr only negates monsters but can destroy any card on the field. Each play in their own way and DOES have ways to play around them.
Quasar only has one negate per turn, but stays on the field preventing attacks into it. This however loses to any second effect, even the stealing effects we commonly see. Stuff like change of heart, snatch steal, etc…
Blazar leaves the field so it doesn’t lose to those types of effects, but it leaves you wide open to attacks. Sifr is again, only a monster negate and loses to stuff quasar loses too, but will commonly be able to stop destruction based board breakers as well. Omni’s are fine when they’re hard to get to. Triple Quasar was a thing but was considering very high roll and not viable, same with Blazar and Sifr.
To compare Quasar to the extremely generic omni negates of today is not ignorant, but shows you do understand the design behind any of the level 12’s at all.
I think the real problem isn't that there are good generic boss monsters, but rather that they've become too accessible to too many archetypes. Superheavy was really the death bell of "this is far, far too much material, allowing for generics plus in-engine plus negation resistance", but then Snake Eyes happened.
I have lost a game to Snake Eyes to someone who had bricked for three turns, had no board presence, no cards in hand, and a mediocre graveyard, and drew Snake-Eyes Ash after I burnt my resources getting him to that point. Seven minutes later, the game was over. Off one fucking card. Apo is a fine ban target, but it won't do anything to fix the game until half the Snake-Eyes cards are completely forbidden. I'd love to see Ash stay forbidden as long as Yatagarasu at this point.
Agree. A lot of it is that card design has gone to shit. Now one card has an on-summon effect that goes +1, a GY effect that goes +1 and a recurrence effect. All with zero downsides. I hate that.
In terms of what good design should be, I always bring up D.D. Warrior Lady (you get rid of an opponent’s monster, but also lose yours, fair trade-off) and Stardust Dragon (protection effect but by using it you don’t have Stardust on the field until the end phase, leaving you open). Stardust recurs itself, but at the time of release you kind of had to work to get it out, so it makes sense you’d be rewarded for doing so. Now every card does everything for nothing in exchange. Giving only 1 effect to each card would be a step in the right direction imo.
Cards like accesscode, baron and verta should be be archetype specific, if they require a specific monster type to to summon the would be a lot more reasonable, i.e halq should halq should require a chryston card + tuner to make.
i turn this channel on in the background when im doing homework now
This is the nicest compliment I’ve gotten about the channel
Big boss monsters should need at least one material of their own archetype to be made. Apollousa at least one high level fairy monster, Borrel-Savage at least one Rokket monster, Baronne at least one Fleur monster, Accesscode at least one Code Talker etc.
Or they can still be summon by using generic material
But you must have some specific field spell to active their effect
Or
You have to pay other card from their archetype as cost to active effect
Like Accescode talker must ban other code talker to active it effect,Borreload need rocket field spell on the field to active it effect,...
I have a great idea for Accesscode's summoning requirement:
_4 Cyberse monsters, including a Link-5 or higher monster_
In the anime, Accesscode was summoned using four monsters, one of which was Firewall Dragon Darkfluid, a Link-5 monster. So, I thought it would be fitting for Accesscode to require a Link-5 or higher monster. This obviously also makes Accesscode's summon more demanding to offset its effects.
@@professortrickroom3777It was also summoned with only 2 monsters.
@@nguyenlightduy7020There is a simpler solution for borreload, make it need to pop one of your dragons to use its negate. Would be way worse for generic decks since you lose the big body on negate, but rokkets can just make one of their main deck monsters explode.
It sounds about right. I mean that's exactly how they balanced the beyond broken "Gojo guardian", right?
I gotta disagree about Zeus. It would probably be better if it wasn't a quick effect or had stricter requirements, but as is, it's basically a generic omni negate in all but name for *any* deck that can churn out two monsters of the same level in main phase one.
Ya ignoring how no a board wipe and a negate is not the same thing, Zeus can only be made going second. The problem in this video was the amount of generic negates you can put up going first which ends the game right there. Zeus not being a part of that immediately differentiates it from that discussion
@@BreadBoyWeeb it's still a generic over centralizing boss with interruption. Yeah it's not turn one, but isn't it still the same death of creativity that you mentioned?
If your issue is generic turn one negates, then the issue isn't just with the bosses, but the engines that churn them out.
@@wanderlustwarrior No, because accesscode ends the game. Zeus does not, its not over centralizing at all. Name me a format where Zeus was over centralizing.
@@BreadBoyWeeb Sure. Since you mentioned and showed Master Duel in your video, a very quick search shows that Zeus is literally *right behind Baronne* at 9th in usage out of all cards, above every other Extra Deck monster, *and* is a top 25 finisher (previously at 15th). Seems like a centralizing game ender to me...
I decided to try your video because I wanted to hear a new take, particularly when you claimed to be talking about creativity. But you seem inconsistent (Accesscode isn't a turn one card itself either, for example), avoidant (to the question of creativity after you brought it up in the video), and combative for no reason.
@@BreadBoyWeeb To be fair, Apollousa running out of atk doesn't end the game, but she's usually not alone... Zeus needs an answer asap or you lose your field cause you weren't aggressive enough, and sure, you don't instantly die and have the chance to draw the out (Imperm, Kaiju, Droplet, etc), but like with full board of negates, if you don't, you're cooked
(I'm still waiting for that madlad who summons it turn 1...)
And im here playing obelisk deck and sacred beasts while everyone spamming fallen of albaz and shit like that . 5 games in a row they had the same deck damn..
Archetypal boss monsters and extender, like Savage Dragon or Isolde, should only be allowed to be played in there respective decks.
Just make savage need a rokket tuner and isolde need noble knight monster and equip
the real problem is the community.
The real problem is out of touch casuals and anime nostalgia fan boys
These are good responses but I'm gonna say gooners are to blame. Name me a deck that doesn't use a little girl as an extender. No Traptrix, no dogmatika, no skystriker, few hand traps
The game has come to a point in which there's a very streamlined win condition for any deck of whatever format which is, "survive turn 2 and win on turn 3"
This means that you have to have interruptions on your first board and the more the better, every deck can set up 8k damage on a single line of play if they go uninterrupted so it doesn't really matter what your deck can do.
Banning generic extra deck staples only hurts rogue decks, the days of setting 1 and pass are long gone. The only difference between the game now and back then is that your interruptions back then were traps that you couldn't search and you had to wait a few turns to assemble lethal damage because of a lack of synergy between cards, meaning you had to draw everything instead of building a board.
The main issue is not the generic extra deck but the fact that every deck can win on their first battle phase.
Konami also has the issue of giving most card the once per turn, which just makes effects useless to things like Apo, which have little to no cost
I honestly would like to see more decks veer away from extra deck dependencies. I loved playing monarchs and nekroz because the primary focus was on your main summoning mechanic. Was nekroz able to go into their extra deck? Sure. But it wasn't a necessity. While I havent touched yugioh in a couple of years, i would like to see some kind of 'soft' power level reset.
Gotta recommend Dogmatika. While it uses the extra deck it just sends them from the extra deck immediately to the grave and uses their graveyard effects. You can also combine them with Nekroz and their boss monster Alba Zoa forces you opponent to send 8 cards from their extra deck to the grave
We had a format with a much weaker power level recently but unfortunately the January banlist and Snake Eyes messed it up in the TCG
@@Honest_Mids_Masher That sounds like an interesting deck. I like the concept of that, doesn't sound too far off from Nekroz sending extra decks monsters for ritual summoning. Thank you for sharing!
@@Azraaiyl no problem if you send your herald of the Arc light from extra deck to grave you can search the Nekroz side of the deck or the dogmatika side of the deck btw and it's not once per turn so adding 3 is a good idea.
No banlist, 60-card Singleton is the most fun I've ever had playing Yu-Gi-Oh. Its enough of a shakeup to the way you build a deck, and building a consistent deck with the simple restriction of everything being allowed, but limited to 1, such that the game is sorta self-balanced.
I've been saying this for almost a decade. Generic bosses put YGO near death's door and hand traps finished it off.
Good thing that yugioh has only grown since a decade xD
@@darthargus7216 As business? Sure, due to KONAMI'S heinous practices. As a game? Lol fuck no.
@@AkaiSuzume well, turnament playercounts as well as viewership count say differently :]
Yugioh is incredibly small compared to the other tcgs. Its killed itself in my area due to casuals being non existant and the game costing an arm and a leg. The only place the scene is growing is when its for cold hard cash which is almost always powered by sponsorships or konami lying about paying people.
@@darthargus7216 Are you suggesting that the popularity of something is a reflection of it's quality? In that case, games like the annual COD releases must be awe inspiring masterpieces of gaming in your mind.
Good job making this documentary, brother. Boss monsters that have an amazing effect should be justified by the cost of summoning them.
Very well made points!
I got back into the game a bit over a year ago with MD and I've been exclusively been playing Insect decks, because they're my favorite animals. Recently however, I'm thinking about quitting the game, because... well, duels just feel unfair 90% of the time. You almost exclusively face Snake-Eyes or Branded and on the occasion where I do break through their defenses... they just get everything back, immediately. They get rewarded for my efforts of breaking their formation. A gift-basket because I killed their creatures. No matter how well I play, it simply doesn't matter, they'll just play a single card on the next turn, do their entire combo all over again and end me. It's no fun.
Insects, I feel, are extremely well designed cards. They have a lot of strong monsters that don't rely on simply preventing your opponent from playing. They are excellent at swarming and filling the board, much like you'd imagine from the animals they're based on. Their smaller monsters arn't just combo pieces, they can offer solid interruption, at a reasonable cost (Sting & Scale Bomber for instance). On top of that, you don't really have one-card-combos, reaching your boss monsters is a collaborative effort of several of your cards, which feels really nice. And best of all, they commonly lock you into the type. You need to rely on their own extra deck monsters, instead of just getting the beloathed creatures you speak of in this video.
But I can't help but observe that what they do get is mere scraps compared to how each popular storyline archetype gets busted card after overpowered card. Part of me doesn't even WANT more support, in fear it'd just be absurd overpowered stuff that isn't fun at all. I suppose what I'd want is the obscene powercreep to somehow be dialed back, rather than that my own preferred cards also become that.
A thought I had on how to balance the generic boss monsters would be to maybe implement something like Rush Duel's "Legend" cards. Designate every overpowered extra deck monster something you may only have ONE of. You get Accesscode OR Borreload Savage OR Baronne OR Apollousa. Never all of them.
"Yugioh is no stranger to powerful generic cards influencing the game"
Wasn't BLS a threat for like even into like xyz era while it was at 1?
Yes it was. Fabled Chaos did indeed arguably the best deck in tengu plant, in good part because of being able to summon BLS.
I guess no one here has ever heard of Kaiju ..
Hey *everyone* should run these *non-interactive* cards...
1. "Just draw the out bro" mentality.
2. Kaiju's are themselves a problem ruining the game. Uninteractive and not well designed nor fun.
3. Unless you're running Lava or Sphere you still got several generic negate monsters you have to play around on high roll boards.
4. Running a non-engine card in the main deck when you're not playing with Side Decks is sacky, especially considering you're not guaranteed them in your opening hand, and they're most of the time dead going first.
I agree with most of the video except that I think baronne should’ve had a restriction like synchron tuner considering it’s part of the Fleur archetype. I also believe accesscode should’ve required at least one Cyberse monster for how good it is. The type of generic cards I like would be I:p and the link 2 and 3 knightmares and all the ones you mentioned as well. I don’t like savage dragon though. I think Konami should print better archetype boss monsters. An example would be comparing baronne with crystal clear wing synchro dragon for speedroids. The summoning condition alone makes baronne better than the in archetype boss monster.
Hollow knight music in the background makes this video 10x times better
Baronne, Underworld Goddess, Ty-Phon, and Zeus are part of the exception of generic bosses and should be the standard since they're limited by either what makes them i.e. Ty-Phon needing the opponent to summon from the Extra Deck 2+ times in the last and/or current turn, Zeus needing an XYZ monster on your field to have battled within the turn and Underworld still requiring 3 monsters of your's minimum to make, or what their effects do i.e. Baronne is a once while face up Omni Negate that has an effect that actually encourages players to get back into their main combo by spinning itself back. Dis Pater, while considered generic by some, is actually a lot more dragon centric needing Dragon non Tuner(s) for its summon. I think Promethean Princess is actually an alright example of the generic boss monster because even though it can be made with any 2-3 monsters, it locks you into Fire while face up and needing Fire monsters for its other effects where, if the best decks weren't Fire, it's a really good equalizer for Fire based strategies that takes some thought into how to play it rather than dumping all of your deck into an Apollousa or Borreload Savage plus friends.
Dis Pater wasn't generic until Accel Stardust and Crimson Dragon were printed. Now any deck can run it.
Also, I personally think Accesscode isn't part of the problem. All the other cards you named (besides Baronne) are strong go-second cards, and if you have enough resources left over after playing through an opponent's board and make Accesscode on top of another 3k beater, you honestly deserve the win.
@@issacsantana6419You're definitely underestimating Barrone as a going second card. It contests two interruptions on it's own. Sure it sees more use as a going first negate but the pop and the negate when you're up against an already established board is a godsend.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher I meant that the other cards mentioned are inherently go-second tools, as opposed to Baronne, which is great either way.
The biggest issue is that Konami has thrown out the concept of trade-off they established (at least in theory) at the beginning of the game: Normal Monsters are strong, Effect Monsters are weak, Spell Cards situational and Trap Cards slow. And boss monsters are hard to summon. Cards need trade-offs. If it is easy to get on board, it cannot also have good effects and high ATK/DEF. One of these has to give. If Baronne had 2000ATK 1500DEF, people could just out the card in battle. Which makes it really easy to bait that negate for fear of getting destroyed before using it.
I agree, i think the concept of trade-off is very crucial in strategy game, especially the turn based one, people seems to forgot how to balance stuff, now it feels like almost every new cards has to be better than what comes before them, to the point where their effect become ridiculously broken while having YUGE stat
To be fair, if they removed op generic extra deck monsters, they should get MORE support for other cards. And there are so many archetypes that need support that this seems impossible.
Fur Hire is another good example of a deck that can use Baronne as a supplementary tool, since being able to use hop-ear with Rafale to go into Baronne on the opponent's turn after burning the Rafale effect negate (or getting kaiju'd :p) is very efficient, and since special summoning monsters Fur Hire is really important to activate their effects, having another avenue to do so with Baronne tag out gives it some seriously strong synergy. Folgo is still the central piece of their gameplan, Barrone's just another supporter.
Savage is good too, but because of the levels it's more awkward to make than Baronne. FH tends to want to play a wider board, so going all-in on something like Appo usually is overkill.
QUASAR DRAGON MENTIONED 😤💯💯
It’s in my top 10 fav synchros for sure
Peak card design
@@Honest_Mids_Masher damn right. Whats your fav sycnh honest
@@BreadBoyWeeb An omni-negate for the working class 💪
@@BreadBoyWeeb Tbh it's actually either between OG stardust Dragon (the background of the art is soo beautiful and I'm a huge Yusei fan) and Shooting Majestic Star dragon (once again beautiful background and the monster itself)
Honorable mention would be Satellarknight Triverr (XYZ I know) what's yours?
These cards need better balancing
Can we go back to the days where the diceroll deciding who goes first doesn't already decide the duel
Remember when being able to otk was like a special attribute to a deck? That’s not even thought about anymore with stuff like accesscode and everything just getting a free 5k beater