2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Alpine Lake Adventure and Off-Road Review

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  • Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
  • We take our long-term 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser First Edition on treacherous trail to an alpine lake in Washington State. Can we make it all the way? We test all the off-road features and the underbody armor in pursuit of adventure!
    #toyota #landcruiser #offroad
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Комментарии • 325

  • @drivingsports
    @drivingsports  Месяц назад +8

    Save 20% off your membership with OnX Offroad, use code "DSTV": webmap.onxmaps.com/purchase/offroad/membership/?promo=dstv

  • @derrickschultz6871
    @derrickschultz6871 Месяц назад +116

    This is the new best offroad channel. Its official.

    • @Urgento22
      @Urgento22 Месяц назад +16

      Yes, he's much better than TFL!

    • @Elijah-fc3ex
      @Elijah-fc3ex Месяц назад +14

      Been that way for years bucko

    • @cbthecollector
      @cbthecollector Месяц назад +11

      He has been for years haha, nice of you to show up though!

    • @Yoyomanmanholla
      @Yoyomanmanholla 29 дней назад

      Meanwhile, tfl laying down a banjo music track in Final Cut Pro, accidentally set to 105% gain, can’t hear voice commentary or live audio from the clip. No QA process so the track uploads to RUclips with the banjo chapter of the trail run 😂

  • @CJ-rk5eg
    @CJ-rk5eg Месяц назад +69

    Thanks for reviewing vehicles in ways that “most” people will use them, and then some. No need to test vehicles doing serious rock crawling like the rubicon.

  • @neokumar6146
    @neokumar6146 Месяц назад +33

    This production level can’t be matched by other driving channels… I watched your 4Runner videos so many times before I ended up with one!

    • @AdventureeX
      @AdventureeX Месяц назад +2

      Same! I loved his personal 4Runner review

    • @jacktyler5241
      @jacktyler5241 28 дней назад +1

      Agreed. About to buy either a Land Cruiser or a Ranger Raptor and this channel has the best videos on both.

    • @jlucguerrier
      @jlucguerrier 10 дней назад

      Likewise!! Originally set out to get a Tundra but saw a 4Runner and remembered that I watched a ton of YT hours on the 4Runner. I was not so secretly in love with the truck and I couldn't be happier with my Trail Premium.

  • @adamblakeley5865
    @adamblakeley5865 Месяц назад +26

    It’s crazy how much better a bit beefier set of tires can make a vehicle look! Looks amazing with the new meats on it!

  • @elizabethescher5445
    @elizabethescher5445 Месяц назад +22

    The Gallagher Lake Trail was built originally for a mining claim. The area wasn't placed into the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area because of the old mining claim. I've hiked and backpacked in the area from the Teanaway River side. Not being an official Forest Service Road, I doubt if this trail ever receives any maintenance. Only for 4x4's for sure! It's hard enough to walk on, a real ankle twister.

  • @belowme4927
    @belowme4927 Месяц назад +14

    "THE KID" GOT HIS EXERCISE THAT DAY.
    THAT'S A LOT OF WORK MAKING ONE VIDEO.

  • @Earlywinters09
    @Earlywinters09 Месяц назад +21

    The review of the Land Cruiser that I've been waiting for: Actual off-road travel, and on roads that I actually use here in the PNW. Thanks!

  • @timanderson6111
    @timanderson6111 Месяц назад +14

    I just read through a bunch of comments and there is not much I can add except, "keep'em coming, Ryan!" This video was a 10!

  • @adamtacheira5323
    @adamtacheira5323 29 дней назад +3

    Oh man, he didn’t say “I’m 6 foot 1, legs and torso proportionate”! Or, did I miss it? I always take a shot when he says it.

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  29 дней назад +2

      Lol. We don’t do that on these adventures.

  • @robertshones364
    @robertshones364 5 дней назад +1

    Great video! Honestly, one of the best offroad channels on YT. I'm actually amazed that trail was only rated a 4 out of 10. After seeing the obstacles, I would have guessed a 6 minimum.

  • @Maltic117
    @Maltic117 Месяц назад +24

    I really love how good that yellow looks with a bit of dust on it!

  • @catrider4863
    @catrider4863 Месяц назад +28

    Good work. That is a pretty difficult 4WD trail. I have done it a couple of times. I think it's more difficult than it's rating. Snowmobiling there in the wintertime is epic!

    • @cuspin12
      @cuspin12 Месяц назад +2

      Done this trail on my RZR as well. there are some pucker moments for sure. Nice reveiw!

    • @KeithKacanek
      @KeithKacanek 29 дней назад

      Could I do this in an PT 4x4 FJC with P-rated 286/70/17 Nitto TG G2s?

    • @cuspin12
      @cuspin12 29 дней назад +1

      @@KeithKacanek I don't see why not. your wheel base is shorter than the LC. Running a 32 with aggressive tread. Just go slow, and bring a friend.

    • @catrider4863
      @catrider4863 29 дней назад +1

      @KeithKacanek i would think that you could. You have pretty good a/c/d angles. There are some pretty good rocky sections, so go slow and watch your sidewalls. There are a few washed/rutted out sections that can be nail biters, and you may have to move some rocks around.

    • @KeithKacanek
      @KeithKacanek 27 дней назад +1

      Thanks y’all

  • @KietD
    @KietD Месяц назад +2

    Just some AT tires and a little more offset wheels make the LC looks SO MUCH BETTER, a lift and it's perfect.

  • @christianmercado83
    @christianmercado83 Месяц назад +11

    its Crazy how much better the Land Cruiser looks with just the tires man. I remember you throwing hints at on X off road for a sponsor, im glad you've been getting them finally! i wish i had support over where i live. what are those rims tho? they look like my next poor financial decision lmao

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  Месяц назад +5

      18-inch Toyota TRD wheels from the dealer

    • @BacaraBuffalo
      @BacaraBuffalo Месяц назад

      @@drivingsportsare these wheels from a Tacoma or do you have part number. Also, is offset same as LC FE Wheels. Was looking at TRD Pro Tundra wheels, but these look way better.

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  Месяц назад +7

      @@BacaraBuffalo I haven’t been able to find a part number. They’re just called 9-spoke 2024 Tacoma TRD Wheel. 18x8, 45mm offset.

    • @michaelnelson9000
      @michaelnelson9000 11 дней назад

      @@drivingsportsHey Ryan, just found these wheels online. I really like the look! Seems like that offset will add a little to the track width which I feel it needs. Do you have an idea how much? I’m seriously considering this exact setup for my new Land Cruiser with the exception being an SL or C load tire.

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  11 дней назад

      @@michaelnelson9000 The track difference is minor, but I do think it looks a little better. I didn't measure "before" so it's hard to measure.

  • @fernando_dominguez
    @fernando_dominguez Месяц назад +11

    Love your channel love your videos and your energy, thank you!🎉

  • @dougpendleton1266
    @dougpendleton1266 Месяц назад +6

    I love trail videos, especially when they are so well done!

  • @MrAKhiker
    @MrAKhiker Месяц назад +4

    Wow Ryan, super enjoyable! Where I live now - no mountains. 😣 Here is something you might try - works really well on shelf roads where keeping track of the outside rear tire is critical. You don’t need your side mirrors to see traffic behind you. If they allow it, tilt them down and in so you can see where you are placing those rear tires. Could literally be a life saver!

  • @ALMX5DP
    @ALMX5DP Месяц назад +6

    Those Falkens sure are heavy (think they are probably adding 100lbs to the vehicle over the stock Michelins), but that being said in this environment I'm sure they are a welcomed addition due to their increased sidewall and tread depth.

  • @AlphaOmega333
    @AlphaOmega333 Месяц назад +4

    Thank you for all of your hard work and especially on this LC 250 video series. 🤜🏼🤛🏼

  • @bt4b4
    @bt4b4 Месяц назад +2

    That was the most intense driving ! Thank you for showing all of us.

  • @MountainBound17
    @MountainBound17 Месяц назад

    This is the Land Cruiser video I've been waiting for! You off-road reviews are the gold standard and it was great to finally see the Land Cruiser hit a trail with proper tires.

  • @mohammedalizadeh965
    @mohammedalizadeh965 Месяц назад +2

    I'm gonna say a big thank you because I love how professional your videos are and the way that you challenge cars. Also, you own two of my favorite cars; This Toyota and Ranger raptor.

  • @Appalachianventure
    @Appalachianventure Месяц назад +1

    You are far more brave than I am! It was almost three years before I took my new 4Runner on a true trail! Great video.

  • @ovid4
    @ovid4 27 дней назад

    I love the way be pretends to forget about his lockers😂. He really cares about us having fun watching 🤣

  • @Urgento22
    @Urgento22 Месяц назад +6

    I would love to see you take a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe Trailhawk up that same trail.

    • @jeeproverbydesign
      @jeeproverbydesign Месяц назад +2

      I was going to say the same thing. He mentioned getting an older GC in the video and it made me want to see a comparison. For me, if I was shopping for a new vehicle it would be between the LC and the GC. Price and features they’re very similar. The LC is more traditional in capability but the GC offers better on-road manners and efficiency while still being very capable.

  • @nweye
    @nweye Месяц назад +4

    Love this area, mountain biked into that lake a few times. Always thought it would be neat to 4x4 into there. Digging the LC 🤙

  • @LugsyTL
    @LugsyTL 10 дней назад

    Land Cruisers, my dream vehicle.

  • @METamez
    @METamez Месяц назад +2

    Your videos are amazing. Please keep bringing more Land Cruiser videos! Love On X.

  • @truthtalk8220
    @truthtalk8220 Месяц назад +4

    Congratulations on your purchase! Beautiful specs and wonderful car

  • @mikefoehr235
    @mikefoehr235 Месяц назад +5

    Did toyota remember the bump stops on the land crusher

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  Месяц назад +3

      Yeah, surprisingly soft at full impact.

  • @atraiobaker7871
    @atraiobaker7871 Месяц назад +3

    I love the video man. you also did something amazing with your music choice!

  • @spartanchirho
    @spartanchirho Месяц назад +3

    Here's what's next: A trac Onyx off road blue cruise. You just get to sit there and enjoy nature and enjoy the cruisers capabilities.

  • @sunroomstudios8487
    @sunroomstudios8487 29 дней назад +1

    Love this channel! It’s my go to channel for great practical vehicle reviews.

  • @bryandale7125
    @bryandale7125 Месяц назад +2

    Kids love their way-over-used catch phrases, like everything is a ton of this and a ton of that and everything is crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy, etc.

    • @abdullahbinshahid3199
      @abdullahbinshahid3199 Месяц назад

      Easy for a broke guy with no land cruiser sitting at home to say. U just jealous.

  • @theblackhand6485
    @theblackhand6485 29 дней назад +1

    Your new Landcruiser looks fenominal. Great in those two tone.
    If you bought the car to go trailing every weekend I suggest you raise the car, add Alu skit plates on the bottom, and reinforce the double bars on the side of the car. That way less damage and you can maintain speed without worrying about your investment.

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  29 дней назад

      Good points, however, this first edition comes standard with a steel skidplate and additional accessory plates covering all underbody vitals.

  • @马k
    @马k Месяц назад +3

    Good point btw the GX 550 and Land Cruiser with the lift kit being installed. Something I want to do later on.

  • @McNuggets-419
    @McNuggets-419 Месяц назад +3

    I really appreciate what Toyota did with their new line up I just can't with these prices man lol
    Also I love your vids please never stop going on adventures lol I learn so much! Taking my 94 Yota places it shouldnt be going lmao

  • @julesmarwell8023
    @julesmarwell8023 Месяц назад +1

    at least you are relatively assured . that it will take you there. and BRING YOU BACK

  • @BaconCruiser
    @BaconCruiser Месяц назад +2

    As someone who has both a lifted HE LC 200 on Kings and Lexus GX on Fox DSCs they are NOT harder to lift than non-KDSS unless you are planning on lifting into non-functional territory. Performance-wise lifting 1.5-2” is the max for Toyota IFS, anything greater will ruin your downtravel. If you are planning on adding longer control arms and a long travel kit then avoid KDSS eKDSS models.

  • @6point1hemi
    @6point1hemi 29 дней назад +1

    We did that drive a few days ago during a thunderstorm. Makes it a bit more challenging. That’s a proper trail. Try Van Epps next to it. It’s also a very good trail.

  • @Offshore1977
    @Offshore1977 2 дня назад

    Love your traveling trail videos. As always, you produce a great video.
    I always recommend to bring a cable winch puller when you off road alone. You never know bid you need to use it.

  • @johntanchong3166
    @johntanchong3166 29 дней назад +2

    Wonder if 275/70R18 will fit in the spare tyre compartment being a full 33" tyre. If yes then this is the best tyre upgrade as it will inclease the ground from 8.7" to 9". Nice video as always! 😊

  • @clippertalk
    @clippertalk Месяц назад +1

    The best channel out there! I love this channel and your content

  • @ribjones2654
    @ribjones2654 29 дней назад +1

    Hopefully they add a third row option on future models. Would rather have a third row than hybrid - especially with its competitors that do offer a third row

  • @warikplaya
    @warikplaya Месяц назад +4

    Sub 9-inch ground clearance is pretty disappointing for an off road vehicle. So are the stock tires. Should have like 10 inches, or more, and more appropriate tires.

    • @KeithKacanek
      @KeithKacanek 29 дней назад

      Right? I’m hoping and *praying* that the Land Cruiser FJ is gonna be everything enthusiasts have been asking for (probably not a removable top)

  • @ahavner
    @ahavner 26 дней назад

    Keep the Land Cruiser content coming! Really enjoy seeing what this thing can do!

  • @freed14760
    @freed14760 Месяц назад +3

    On fire! Great comparisons n reviews! You are crushing it!!!

  • @anthonyb755
    @anthonyb755 Месяц назад +3

    Another amazing video thank you Ryan!

  • @caifan444
    @caifan444 29 дней назад +1

    Such a great video Ryan! Keep it up Land Cruisers new shoes lookin real good!

  • @monyepaomaake7334
    @monyepaomaake7334 Месяц назад +1

    I am just here to see the new capabilities of the new Land cruiser. Toyota Fan

  • @somekidzenvy
    @somekidzenvy 9 дней назад

    what a difference tires can make. the cruiser looks great

  • @ttinnovations3310
    @ttinnovations3310 Месяц назад +3

    wow $78K , I need a new awd Toyota that can do everything, $78 is hard to justify , but all my cars are all over 10-21 years old .. , will be interesting to see how you like the T. L. Cruiser

    • @KeithKacanek
      @KeithKacanek Месяц назад

      Get a 5th get 4Runner. Just make sure there are service records

  • @JDS-Dalton
    @JDS-Dalton Месяц назад +1

    Currently driving a highly modified subaru forester wilderness, but I'm pretty sure this will be my next vehicle, and it looks great on ATs, give it a minor lift with the same tires, and it looks like it'd be great!

  • @russellbaker7026
    @russellbaker7026 5 дней назад

    Great video, Ryan. And nice rig. At 18:00 you suggested always locking the center diff if available. In my 80 Series Land Cruiser, I keep the center diff unlocked on most trails until needed. With it locked, tight turns bind up the drivetrain and put unnecessary stress on the rig. It may be different on your new Cruiser, I don't know. It might be worth experimenting with it off and on. Keep the great content coming! Thank you.

  • @williampresley3000
    @williampresley3000 Месяц назад +2

    Nothing like off roading on the forest moon of Endor.

  • @anthonyr3917
    @anthonyr3917 Месяц назад +1

    That was such a great and comprehensive review, thank you!

  • @REIQ
    @REIQ Месяц назад +1

    Perfect guide and timeing!

  • @jediguy634
    @jediguy634 Месяц назад

    Knowledgeable fun presenter, check. Beautiful car, check. Epic scenery, check. Best vechile / off road channel on RUclips: 100%

  • @nickh5049
    @nickh5049 29 дней назад +1

    Since only the GX550 Overtrail has E-KDSS, the other trims of GX should be just as easy to lift as the Land Cruiser.

  • @not_your_typical_guy
    @not_your_typical_guy Месяц назад

    one of the most underrated channel so far

  • @willb6070
    @willb6070 28 дней назад

    Awesome video. Of course the first scratches/dings hurt the most. It's all gravy from here. LOL.

  • @itgeltbayan
    @itgeltbayan 10 дней назад

    one of the best reviews on this prado.... like everything about your video

  • @lukiw7044
    @lukiw7044 23 дня назад

    Pretty cool that You,re testing your own Toyota in hard off road to show as what this vehicle is made for. Great review. Greetings

  • @bebe0928
    @bebe0928 28 дней назад +1

    2024 4Runner is the last good ole SUV from Toyota that will last forever, get it while you can.

  • @celo8019
    @celo8019 Месяц назад

    The quality of your videos always impress me. That’s why I’ll stay a long term subscriber. Keep up the good work!

  • @kevinnaira3816
    @kevinnaira3816 27 дней назад

    Fun trail to test the LandCruiser. Did that 2 weeks ago and it was a blast!

  • @lifexplorer4x4
    @lifexplorer4x4 Месяц назад +1

    Hello,
    What a beautiful area, in your country you are very lucky to be able to enjoy these 4x4 routes. What a great car the Toyota.
    Greetings.

  • @linework11
    @linework11 25 дней назад

    I love the info you deliver im just amazed at how you do this for a living and think these trails are difficult. That Land cruiser will go almost anywhere. I bought one as well love it.Keep up the build on it I look forward to what you do to it.

  • @728GT
    @728GT Месяц назад +1

    Such a good looking vehicle

  • @drobs7279
    @drobs7279 Месяц назад

    You should always air down at the start of the trail to prevent tire punctures, soften the ride, and allow the tires to conform to the trail = better traction. With no lift and those small tires, I'd go 15psi on the low end and 18psi on the high end.

  • @TJDawgs72
    @TJDawgs72 Месяц назад +12

    $77,000…Holy F*ck!!!

    • @davidj.zamora5017
      @davidj.zamora5017 Месяц назад +4

      For a 4 banger too 😂

    • @chibbyylol
      @chibbyylol Месяц назад +6

      note it's the '1st edition' that they're only making like 5000 of. Big part of the price is that exclusivity

    • @MrKozanitis
      @MrKozanitis Месяц назад +2

      @TJDawgs72, plus destination charges and taxes,don’t forget! 😅

    • @northerntoyota7584
      @northerntoyota7584 Месяц назад +6

      @@davidj.zamora5017not sure why the 4 cylinder makes it less of a vehicle. I own a 22 Tacoma with the V6 and this new hybrid 4 cylinder is a far more enjoyable powertrain.

    • @oceaniclab
      @oceaniclab Месяц назад +3

      77k is a good price for 1st edition, in Greece this car cost 131k

  • @alexatwagan
    @alexatwagan 28 дней назад

    Living in California, this is on par with many of our trails here. Good to see even just a tire lift and new tech makes it very capable for where we want to go. If you ever have a chance to take a GX550 on the same trail, would love to see the differences in the approach/departure angles!

  • @CJ-rk5eg
    @CJ-rk5eg Месяц назад +7

    Can you turn off the nanny warnings / tones?

    • @josephvallier1152
      @josephvallier1152 Месяц назад +1

      I was thinking the same thing. The TFL Offroad LC 250 review in Moab they were complaining about all the "nannies" tones, beeps etc.

    • @CJ-rk5eg
      @CJ-rk5eg Месяц назад

      @@josephvallier1152 the INEOS Grenadier has an Offroad mode that turns all that nanny tech OFF

  • @gulu-cat
    @gulu-cat Месяц назад +2

    Better try it in Naches 4x4 trail near by. And you picked the right path in Fortune Creek.

  • @alex77134
    @alex77134 Месяц назад +1

    Excellent off-road video

  • @kaikandojo
    @kaikandojo Месяц назад

    Great video! Love these kind of videos. Btw, it looks so much better with beefier tires and a nice coat of trail dust. Toyota owes you big time - this actually makes we want to buy it!

  • @svtben
    @svtben Месяц назад

    I didn't know you could run onX via CarPlay!! Gamechanger. Great video! Shred that gnar!

  • @brianholms8748
    @brianholms8748 Месяц назад

    Great. Video !!! You really showed how capable the Land Cruiser is!💪💪 AWESOME JOB , best video in a while !!!

  • @RichardVac
    @RichardVac Месяц назад +1

    Fun! Drive thx! That rig can go to way more challenging trails, but it was a fun one

  • @andm6847
    @andm6847 Месяц назад +2

    could you have fitted 275/70R18 tires with the spare still fitting underneath? That would give you half an inch more ground clearance and that in turn improves the breakover angle a bit.

  • @ken_heine
    @ken_heine 26 дней назад

    Klasse Geländewagen 👌🤌👍 hast du gut gekauft. Alles richtig gemacht 😃

  • @TMS5100
    @TMS5100 Месяц назад +2

    @6:18 wish it had more ground clearance. seems a bit low for something that boasts about its offroad creds. the competition has 10" or more. too bad toyota doesn't offer a lift option.

  • @joshuakienlen7626
    @joshuakienlen7626 Месяц назад

    This is the kind of stuff I love to watch!

  • @DerFledderer
    @DerFledderer Месяц назад +2

    Great and enjoyable video!

  • @Mimigo1
    @Mimigo1 22 дня назад

    Bought yesterday same color!! Loving it so far

  • @Michaud85
    @Michaud85 28 дней назад +1

    Its missing a solid front axle.

  • @johnb-ke9xi
    @johnb-ke9xi 22 дня назад

    "tilty" is a technical term!

  • @MarkusWeimer
    @MarkusWeimer Месяц назад

    This is incredibly useful for people living in the area :)

  • @4WDisLife
    @4WDisLife Месяц назад +1

    Going to do an Offroad comparison of 2021 stock tacoma vs this vs stock Fj, can’t wait

  • @northerntoyota7584
    @northerntoyota7584 Месяц назад

    Great video. I air down my “E” at3w to 20 psi not because I need to but because it greatly softens the ride.

  • @rugged9769
    @rugged9769 19 дней назад

    Toyota should give this vehicle at least the same ground clearance as the 5thGen 4R TRD Pro

  • @Jeepingshort
    @Jeepingshort Месяц назад +1

    Good thing you have those maxtrax for those scary dirt roads

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  Месяц назад +1

      It can get muddy up there. Nothing wrong with being prepared.

    • @Jeepingshort
      @Jeepingshort Месяц назад

      Exactly what I was saying

    • @russellbaker7026
      @russellbaker7026 4 дня назад

      The Jeep guy is throwing shade for Ryan being prepared? MaxTrax are cheap and add no significant weight. Why not bring them?

  • @spartanchirho
    @spartanchirho Месяц назад +1

    Rad trail!! Do this one more!

  • @TheFamilyCruiser250
    @TheFamilyCruiser250 28 дней назад

    I know you have a lot of experience off-roading but doing it on a stock setup is neck straining. I was so sore after the drive out becuase I was so tense. There were a few spots I thought the LC250 was going to ding something due to the lack of ground clearance but my spotter always said I had tons of clearance. Obstacles always seem bigger from the driver's seat. Great video once again and hope you post more trail videos of the LC250.

  • @dawood2u
    @dawood2u Месяц назад

    My Wrangler did that trail in 2WD two weeks ago. That trail is not tilty if you have solid axles.

  • @SQRTDOGG
    @SQRTDOGG Месяц назад +2

    What rims did you put on those tires???

  • @evaneldridge7058
    @evaneldridge7058 Месяц назад

    This new model is so damn beautiful! Wish i could afford one.

  • @naturalLin
    @naturalLin Месяц назад +2

    77k usd for new LC. Not really cheaper than old LC tbh. Also consider its a Prado

    • @drivingsports
      @drivingsports  Месяц назад

      Prior-gen Off-Road GXs (Prado 150) started at $68k. The 200 series was sold here for $90k.

    • @naturalLin
      @naturalLin Месяц назад

      @@drivingsports wasn’t the point of new LC to way cheaper than older LC; this seems to be barely cheaper

    • @johnfracisco77
      @johnfracisco77 10 дней назад

      Entry level LC starts $55K with same drivetrain but not the fancy bits and big touchscreens

    • @naturalLin
      @naturalLin 9 дней назад

      @@johnfracisco77 sure start at that price but will dealers actually let you buy at that price without any addons? My Toyota dealership new LC all have thousands of addons

  • @christorealov9050
    @christorealov9050 Месяц назад +1

    Curious how experience in a 1958 would have been different on this trail assuming same tires? I guess rock rails for additional protection and peace of mind. You used MTS mostly to showcase the feature, not sure it was in fact needed or it added incremental capability on top of the lockers. Almost $20k difference.