U didn’t mention that she lost her mind because of Sean’s death, she is unstable at the beginning of the game and as soon she reconnect with Sean she start to be happy and nice again, but then when her lover dies she falls again into drinking
Part of me hopes she didn't die and that she'll make a return if there's another read dead, but it would be quite the tragedy. People rag on her character but she was far more likable than Bill, Molly, uncle, or even Dutch.
@@easternrebel1061 Unfortunately, Karen dies. And I don't think it from alcohol,it was the Pinkertons. I honestly think they caught her in the confusion, Karen was too drunk to be aware until it was too late.
Arthur Morgan: I have been bad, I have been killing animals just for the hell of it. Me: ARTHUR, I ONLY KILLED THOSE ANIMALS TO PROVIDE FOOD FOR THE CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMP.
I think you misunderstood the ending of RDR2, Micah never ''teamed up'' with Dutch. He lured Dutch to the mountain with the blackwater money. If you listen when John talks to Dutch at mount hagen at the end John asks: ''what are you doing here'' and Dutch answers: ''same as you'''. This indicated that Dutch went to the mountain with the intention of killing Micah because he finally understood that Micah was the downfall of his enitre gang.
Yes, and Micah also states "all kinds of strange visitors today" or something along those lines when he meets you. Dutch finally recognised he got duped and went there, probably not really knowing what exactly he would do until he went and shot Micah.
@@Fizhy Dutch is a very complex character so I don't blame you. Different theories are possible, ranging from him being a highly ego-driven man who never cared for the gang from the beginning and took everybody down with him to him truly caring for the gang from beginning to end but becoming more unhinged in how he protects the gang as the game progresses. He's the most difficult to grasp character in the game.
I think they left Karen's fate ambiguous to add a tinge of realism to the breaking up of the gang. Try to recall graduating highschool, one certainly doesn't know where everyone they knew ended up. I think Rockstar is trying to add that feeling of uncertainty regarding the whereabouts of people you once knew and maybe even thought of as family.
☝☝Just finished my 3rd playthrough and was wondering about all these characters and if I missed something (again). I think this is what Rockstar wanted with Karen. Someone who is broken, alone, abandoned and just wonders off in the world with no hope. No one knows where they went and what became of them. All we know is that she probably never recovered because if she had, she might have reached out to someone like Tilly. Then she succumbs to the drink, poor health and a broken soul.
I think he probably would have. Specifically 4:50. That's at the chapter 6 camp, which is where Swanson came to his epiphany and that retort from Karen sounds like what Swanson would say. Also, if you talk to him when he leaves on the train he said he asked the women and Jack to come with him but they refused. I think he came to his senses of how it was gonna end and there was no stopping it, and tried to pull the women and Jack out but they refused and he changed as he states at the train "I can't/won't die over some nonsense sprouted by a fool." It can also be found out in epilogue that he moved to New York and became a preacher which refers to the changed man and that man would have tried, especially high honor Arthur play through
It’s sad because Karen was one of my favorite ladies at the camp, not the best person but probably one of the most complex when it comes to her character. And that moment when you can get a chance to dance with her is just wonderful
Yeah, I went through all the real emotions of dealing with a real life alcoholic with Karen. At first you're like "oh, she's fun!" And it quickly becomes annoying, then sad, then tragic.
yup, i downgraded to 1.0.0 just for the singleplayer even though i had to restart my savefile because rockstar corruped it because of me downgrading ;(
@@bradleyrutledge no in this game they were the Pinkerton detective agency Ross and Milton. but I. rd1 Ross and his partner were federal agents. nobody has addressed this hole
Mary-Beth was in Murfree Country, too, for a short while before quietly leaving the gang with Mr. Pearson. Although, Mary-Beth was with a man who knew how to use a knife and a cleaver, so maybe Mr. Pearson is the only reason she survived. Karen had nobody, so she was vulnerable to the Murfree Brood.
Fuck that’s sad, seems plausible since no one has seen her after chapter six. Alcohol poisoning is one thing but being caught by them is a fate worse then anything
Honestly, Karen is one of my favorite characters, the first cutscene in the bank robbery mission with her, it took me off guard how she was using the lingo and talking about how much law would be there, but she’s as brave as Sadie and honestly a little more level headed, it’s a shame, but part of the tragedy that Sean’s death had such an effect on her.
Hear me out... Karen is the physical embodiment of the gang, you can interpret the state the gang is in by Karen's mental state. As the gang declines so dose Karen mental health, by the end when shes no longer found in camp is when the gang is at its worst, and no longer a united group. No Karen = No more gang, its over. Hope someone in RUclips land can understand what im trying to explain lol..
two events changed karen: Sean’s death (most obvious) Being the reason Kieran died (Karen encouraged Kieran to drink some whiskey after Jack is returned in Chapter 4, and Kieran drank until he got ambushed by the O’Driscolls in his drunken stroll.
Arthur: "I've been killing innocent people...for no reason." Me: *NOOOO* if it wasn't the shitty legal system in this game that got me in trouble, it was those "innocents" that took the first shot and I killed them in *SELF DEFENSE*
Leopold is probably the most loyal member of the gang, even though he kicked out of the gang when the Pinkertons picked him up, he still never said a word
@@djdud132 strauss fully expected arthur to beat money out of downtrodden people whom strauss preyed upon with his loans. he wouldnt have cared if arthur took the last bit of wealth from the man and his pregnant wife or the widow and her young son, both of which were pretty much homeless. and strauss certainly wasnt losing sleep over downes and the fate of his family. Arthur was justified in his disgust of Strauss. Strauss may have been loyal and in the end he wasn't spiteful in the least over what happened, but that doesn't take away what he did.
@@fuzzywuzzy4564 and Arthur killing lawmen and depriving children of their fathers isn’t any better. High honor Arthur is a joke, he’s a disgusting criminal plain and simple is he was to be a real life human
Everyone is saying that Sean’s death started her descent and while that’s partially true, if you walk through camp during Clements Point (at which point Sean is alive) there’s times Karen is absolutely wasted & depressed and Arthur tells her to take it easy. I think she was falling apart before Sean’s death by being stuck with outlaws on the run but his death just accelerated it.
It's mostly Ms. Grimshaw that causes her to be depressed, because she was always mean to Karen and she basically made Karen go out to sell her body to bring money into the camp, and she wasn't just selling her body and having fun doing it, she was basically selling herself to the poorest nastiest men that were willing to part with a dollar, which clearly made her feel worthless. Probably not even just regular guys, but like old dirty men, and guys like the ones Micah brought in. What's even worse is she only made Karen go out to do it. Mary Beth and Tilly didn't have to, and Karen did it thinking she was being a big sister to the other girls for doing it, taking one for the team, saving them from having to do it too, but it was horrible for her to the point she had to be drunk to do it and had to drink more after she did it, because when she sobered up she felt even worse about the things she had to do to bring a few dollars in to the camp. If you look at the type of donations each character makes in the log book, they're actually sort of specific to each character. Karen typically brings in small amounts of money less than 5 dollars and small jewelry, indicating she either stole it or sold her body for it. And when she brings in $5, that doesn't mean she only sold her body to one person. She might have only gotten a dollar or less per person, and desperate for cash, she would basically sell herself for almost anything she could get while she was out of camp. She didn't have the luxury to be picky.
We pretty much discover or find out where where the rest of the gang ends up, Karen just disappears completely, it’s pretty sad. Drinking herself to death was just more likely a cause of death than anything else, losing Sean hit her hard, and the eventual demise of the gang made it worse.
It was Sean's death that started her descent. Their relationship and his sudden death explains her extreme reaction to Grimshaw for killing Molly for just "being in love."
@@awsomelyrandomstuff916 In a lot of ways, yeah. It was the flashpoint that signaled they weren't going to just get away scot free. Sure, we knew that because of RDR1, but the internal narrative of RDR2 definitely begins to shift right at that moment to something darker and more foreboding.
Honestly I was glad the annoying sht died, think about it ,at the train robbery the cops could have been avoided if I didn't have to shoot to get rid of the guard strangling sean, I never felt like he ever did anything for the gang except make it worse, I think, instead it all went spiraling down after Kieran's death, he was just a humble little man who got captured by a huge group of good for nothing outlaws and when the situation gets so bad that the innocent boy gets killed, thats when you know its gonna trouble from then on
Also I'm kinda disappointed that during Molly's death scene you can't just press r2 to kill her right then and there because I was spamming r2 button to kill the little traitor
No problem shoots 20 lawmen who probably have families, just doing their job trying to stop you. Loses honor shooting their horses to stop them and leaving the lawmen alive.
It is my personal belief that Karen ( upon leaving the gang ) went on a raging bender for a time , woke up one morning with a typical client in her bed and had an epiphany... cleaned herself up , decided to do something with herself and became a mildly famous folk singer ... think about it , she had all the back material needed to make songs to rip your heart right out of your chest ... I think she made it
I'd like to believe that. But sadly, it's pretty much confirmed she drinks herself to death, because Tilly tells John that in the epilogue. Of course Tilly says she doesn't know for sure.....but how would she? No one is going to talk much about a random woman drinking herself to death one night. The fact that no one hears anything about her pretty much confirms she's not around anymore for there to be anything to hear. Also, it's a possibility the Pinkertons picked her up and tortured her too. She disappears right around the time Strauss is picked up and tortured to death by the Pinkertons, and they weren't above kidnapping women, because they kidnapped Abigail. So it's a high probability the Pinkertons nabbed her. We only hear about Strauss as an offhand rumor, and no one is really going to care anything about a lowly working girl going missing, especially in those times. Considering she was a drunk, she'd be easier to nab up than even Strauss was. I would hope that in RDR3 we'd see Karen managed to get herself together, but that'd be too perfect. The Reverend Swanson was one of the few that got that chance. I'd like to think Karen ran into a nice man one day, who had love at first sight for her, and treated her right, and even didn't care about her working girl past, and gave her a good proper life to be proud of. Or maybe she was drinking one night at a bar and started signing, and there happened to be a music guy there who loved her voice and signed her on, she made good money and found a good man. Another fitting ending would be her starting up her own bar/brothel, but making it a really respectable place because of being well aware of how harsh that life can be, so changed some things. So she gets some girls working for her at first, and uses that money to startup a high class gentlemen's club that allows the women to choose who their customers can be, and has a nice friendly atmosphere.
I’m Six not really it’s ultimately up to you hell you even decide what to do with the snitch. Granted you do kill lawmen and police officers just doing their jobs and if you also count what happened in strawberry
WILL B yeah what the other guy said having a gun was like owning shoes also how does that make them bad people? Especially when a good chunk of them were lawmen?
He's not always wearing it. Everytime I go in there he's always wearing a shirt with suspenders. I wish there was more dialogue with Pearson about the old days of the gang
@@MrBlack252 oh.. guess I wasnt always focused. Anyway, yeah more dialogue would be great.. in one dialogue he mentions sending a letter to beechers hope that never came. They could at least add that. :)
Well, maybe Pearson has a medical condition that causes him to feel cold often. If I’ve been sitting for a while, I will on occasion get very cold, even in the summer.
Chapter 1 to 4: Red Dead Redemption 2. Chapter 5 to 6: Red Dead Depression 2. Still my most fav game tho, along with The Witcher 3. Also thanks for the lore.
Not for the Saint Denis robbery, this set up was just caused by them killing Bronte, which lead the pinkertons to expect them here. Micah was caught on his way back from Guarma, which is when he begins his collaboration with Milton.
@@oscarwang7227 no Micah did rat before guarma think He was responsible for Dutch and colm meeting again And colm said they were there to capture Arthur only and also it’s weird that Micah specifically only wanted Arthur to come along too Micah obvs tried to get Arthur out of the way to make it easier to influence dutch
What if, and an "I hate my brain for thinking this" kind of if, she was abducted by the remnants of the Murfree Brood? We can still encounter them in the epilogue, so it stands to reason that there are still some nearby and out there when the gang took Beaver Hollow. What if, in her drunken state, she wandered just enough out of the camp and got picked up by those degenerates?
Strauss was the first sign of Dutch losing his mind. The point of Van der Linde gang is to steal from the rich and give back to the poor. Strauss was kinda the opposite of that and yet dutch allowed him to operate in the gang
I spoke to Mary-beth during that Arthur therapy session, and he said something more like- "I have been killing animals no good reason." After that, I made a point to not leave any animals that I kill, no matter the quality or inconvenience. And then in the next one, he said something about "...killing innocent folk." But I had been playing super saintly high honour Arthur with little to no human kills outside story missions. So I don't know if they were story missions people, he was more conscious of those he did kill, or it's just a catch-all line and not yet honour specific.
I think Rockstar put those lines in the game to be independent of the honor system to emphasize the player that Arthur is an "anti-hero" not a "good guy"... he's supposed to be the best of the worst was my take. But it did piss me off when he said those things because I wasn't killing random animals without harvesting them and I was playing high honor Arthur - no killing unless scripted by the game --- so those statements caught me out of left field too.
This games legal system doesn’t discern murder; premeditated or in the moment, involuntary manslaughter, and stand your ground all that well. It has a very juvenile black and white, absolute good and evil, which is weird because one the games messages is “people are complicated and nobodies all good or bad”. Doesn’t seem to matter if you’re doing a pacifist run and only kill when the game forces you toZzzz
Late to the party on this conversation, but Arthur also uses it with Professor Andrew Bell the third with the electric chair quest. "Well as luck would have it, you are in the legal hooch Capitol of America. There's plenty of real booze here. But for shine I'm guessing you'll need to go out to the woods"
Actually, hooch short for Hoochinoo (1877) term is liquor made by Alaskan Indians, from the name of a native tribe in Alaska whose distilled liquor was a favorite with miners during the 1898 Klondike gold rush. So the word was was already used in the 1800s not the 1920s
red dead 3. Arthur's death was a major wake up call for Karen. In 1900 she goes on to firm her own gang of mostly female outlaws. The story picks up west of New Austin, where Karen's gang is on the run from Pinkertons after a major train robbery
My playthrough was a moral one, and having that conversation with Karen made me feel like i was being accused by my own character of doing things I never did just because the game expected me to! Gamers truly are an oppressed class.
In my opinion, Karen was always a bit unstable. During Sean's party, when they're having time together in the tent, she says something along the lines of "I just want to be seen" which shows that there was always a kind of disconnect there. Maybe she doesn't feel entirely like she belongs anywhere, who knows. But after Sean dies suddenly and totally without warning, I think that's her turning point. That's when she finally breaks and instead of trying to reach out to the members of the gang, who are all feeling the same loss (to some extent...obviously Sean and Karen were quite close) she pushes them further away. Her story is so sad.
She says that in the tent because she's a working girl, and most of the men she sells herself to are some of the lowest men around. Basically she goes into town and finds whoever she can with a dollar that is willing to buy her. That's why she says she wants to be seen, because the men she sells herself to are just quickies in an alley way who do their business and move on, and they don't give a care about her. You see this in the one mission with her where you save her. She's been used and abused her entire life. She's not a working girl in a brothel with protection, and the men she has in the camp aren't always around to protect her. It's presumed that the entire time the camp was moving around, she was thieving and selling herself whenever she could, to whoever she could, because everyone had to contribute. Obviously that messed her up psychologically, because she didn't just get with fit handsome men, she had to get with old nasty men and basically the poorest men around, that weren't necessarily clean or nice to her. They just did their business and moved on, or worse. You can imagine that if someone as lowly as Sean was her choice in a sort of boyfriend, the men she was selling herself to were even lower than Sean. And even Sean wasn't that great, because instead of stopping to comfort her, he just kept going while she cried, even though she told him to. So basically Sean was the closest thing she could get to someone treating her right, and he was basically using her too, even if he wasn't particularly mean to her. The whole thing was just a mess. Part of the problem was also Ms. Grimshaw, because there's dialog where she makes a fuss about the girls pulling their own weight, and essentially telling them to sell their bodies. Karen and Grimshaw have a few arguments in the camp. So Grimshaw was basically encouraging Karen to go out and sell herself, while also making Karen's life suck at camp. I think it got to the point that Karen needed to be drunk to go out to sell herself, which only made her regret the situations she got into even more, and so she drank even more when she got back to camp. And if you think of how rough they were living in the caravan, she didn't even really have much clean herself up with after. Now imagine how it would have been without much in the way of being able to bathe yourself, then having to go out to sell yourself. She probably didn't smell too good, and that would only make the men she sold herself to respect her even less, while also making her insecure. Then at the same time, she got the stank of the lowly men on her and all those unwashed bodily fluids on her, and was still selling herself, which would only make her less desirable and feel even worse. And it's not like she had money for a new wardrobe either, she was practically wearing rags. She would have only been able to sell herself to the poorest lowest men, for very low prices, which made her feel worthless and psychologically destroyed her. But yeah, after Sean went, she was still selling herself, which only made it worse, because she had to make that money but didn't have time to grieve, even though she didn't have much to grieve over because Sean was lowly anyways, which also made it worse, because that's the closest thing she had to someone that cared about her and it still really wasn't much. It's like someone taking the last dollar out of your pocket. It isn't worth much, but it's all you had. In her own way, Karen's story was more tragic than most others because you can tell she was used and abused her entire life.
Just a nitpick, but her alcoholism didn't make her mental state degrade as the phrasing here says. The cause and effect are backwards. As her anxiety over the gang's problems, worries of the future and grief worsened, her dependency on alcohol worsened. Just wanted to point it out, as someone in recovery, since most people still think alcoholism is a flaw in one's moral character and not a mental health issue
I'd say it's a positive feedback loop. She is feeling bad, so she drinks alcohol - alcohol then makes her feel even worse, so she drinks more alcohol etc.
Its not a mental health issue because you're drinking a toxic intentionally. Alcohol doesnt create itself on its own in your body you decide to drink it. You pick it up and chug it. Your mind doesnt force you. Its not a mental disease. You thinking its a mental illness is the reason why you will never get over your addiction. You have learned to accept its a disease rather than control your urge.
Just realised Arthur tells Karen to take it easy on the "hooch" but when the time traveller says you'd think he's on the "hooch" Arthur doesn't know what it means lol
@@maxreece2402 no like hooch means alcohol so when Arthur told Karen to take it easy on the hooch he was saying drink less of it and the time traveler said if I told you you'd think I was on the hooch as in you'd think he'd been drinking
I'm almost certain that Karen got so shit faced wasted, she stumbled a lil too far from camp and was captured by some Murfrees. No one knows what happened to her or where she went. One minute she was in camp, next she was gone. Everyone else left of their own accord: Pearson and Uncle snuck off. Tilly stayed till the gangs last day, as well as Abigail, and Mary-Beth snuck off too. Poor Karen was kidnapped in her drunk state and will never be seen again 😢
@@murfreehills7410 not to mention that they seem to keep women alive and caged, like the girl from Annesburg you save with Charles, or the encounter with a captured women in the back of a wagon with 2 dead men and she just runs off screaming without a thank you. Murfree practically remind me of the Hills Have Eyes creatures who capture women for breeding purposes.
@@isaac-yout4b it's bloody sad.. Once Sean died, she was never the same, she became more outspoken, especially to Ms Grimshaw and weren't even listening to Tilly anymore, and Tilly & Karen seemed more alike than Mary-Beth.. Honestly, Rock star should just put us all outta our misery and give us the scoop on what happened lol
On my second playthrough, I explored the Colter camp at the beginning and found the gang trying to stay warm in the former schoolhouse. I spoke to each of them. Karen's first words were "I could use a drink."
This broke me. Karen was a grand soul. A true "tart with a heart". An absolute soldier and stawart. Some dodgy Irish bint digs her claws in, and she falls to the bottle out of personal shame. She deserved so much better.
not new characters but let us play between hosea, dutch and arthur or even john and the prologue should be arthur getting rescued by dutch and should end with the gang escaping into ambarino
I would love to see a new story in rdr3 but still revolving around the gang. Remember that guy named davey who died before the rdr2 story starts? I want to control as him and witness a young arthur and john then progress until davey dies and arthur will be the epilogue character with all the gang present and still alive. After beating the game, it will give arthur a chance to interact with the group with everyone around.
@@Silver32498 Arthur as the epilogue character wouldn't really make sense though, it would just be the plot of RDR2's opening again, as Davey died shortly before
@@dhruvsbeloved that sounds terrible asf naw new characters I'm tired of dutch and John their arcs are over, they can be cameo or referenced but cmon the rdr franchise doesn't have to only revolve around dutch and John like naw to me that sounds more like single.player dlc for rdr 2 but for a game no y'all just need to let go and move on from the game or better yet make rdr 3 a.modern western set in 70s dealing with drugs and corruption in the American south west
I’ll make the suggestion that Karen was a personification of the gang. At Horseshoe Overlook she was strong. She was even taking guard duty. As the game progressed and the gang moved to poorer locations and as Arthur’s health declined, so did Karen’s condition. As the gang declined, so did Karen. The gang killed itself from the inside out. So did Karen. When the gang dissolved and disappeared, so did Karen.
It made me extra sad because Karen always acted like the strong woman in camp. She always tried to shake it off and always tried to crack jokes but you could tell deep inside she was broken. She was hurting the most and was the most sad. When Sean died she really fell far because even if she didn't seem like she was grieving you could tell she stepped up her drinking alot after that. She loved Sean. She just never admitted it. Sometimes in camps you see her sitting alone and singing, you can see how sad she is inside and to find out she more than likely drank herself to death makes it all that much more heartbreaking.
Sean wasn't great, she didn't love him, he's just the closest thing she had to someone who cared even the slightest about her, and not much at that. It's like someone taking the last dollar out of your pocket; it isn't worth much but it's all you had. That's what makes it all even more sad, because even if Sean hadn't died, Sean and her would have never worked. He wasn't mean to her, but he also didn't see her as relationship material because she was a working girl and could never fully respect her as a long term prospect because of how many men she had been with, just like John didn't really see Abigail as a long term prospect until he got her pregnant, and even then he hesitated because he wasn't sure it was his kid. Sean would have just used Karen and ditched her too. Although she probably would have been better off going down that path, but not much better, and that makes it even sadder. Basically, Karen had no good path available to her. She wasn't a respectable woman because she sold herself, she was dirt poor, and all the time she spent in low company basically made the low life the only life she knew, which means she couldn't even possibly go off to find a respectable man, because she wouldn't even know the first thing about that life other than it was nicer than what she had. Any respectable guy that would have showed interest, would have soon been repelled by her, because there's no way she could hide her past, it's not just written on her body, it's written in her words and how she carries herself. And once they learned what she was, they would have run away from her.
If you ask me, I think Karen's conclusion was either a part of the scrapped 5 hours of content (along with Arthur's second love interest arc), or Rockstar has something planned for her later on. I'm leaning towards the former.
Started playing RDR2 a few days ago and Karen was the reason why I fell in love for this game. Not because her 'body attributes'. One day, backing to the camp at night, I found her singin' 'Lorena' at the campfire. Immediately I started to cry. This game is a masterpiece.
jokes aside i think it also relates to the legendary animals. u legit just kill some rare once in a life time animal for a cool trinket. and if it’s a big one like a moose, you leave it’s body to rot
Yeahhhh, she is definitely dead. That kind of dependency must not be easy to break out of. There definitely wasn't any support like AA in these formative times! Oh poor girl. She must have internally suffered & her pain fueled her desire to drink. With the gang being the best thing for her mental health, do you think with how events transpired, that girl have ended up okay? Rockstar knew the lack of information & the darkness of her path makes her tale all the more tragic. 💔 Karen had so many positive relationships in the gang. Years later, those loved ones still wonder about her because of silence? She is dead, I am sure. 😔
Plus the fact that when the gang fell apart, she was likely left alone in the middle of Murfree Brood territory... hopefully the alcohol or something related to it got her before they could.
It's been my experience that when a characters fate is left in question with no direct evidence, it's usually so the creators have the option of bringing them back at a later date if they so choose. As they say, if you don't see the body, they're not dead.
The best tip I’ve discovered and nobody talks about is that lock box and chest items respawn. Including gold bars, cash and jewelry bags. It’s really helpful for John if you decide to not leave Arthur’s money at the pig farm for John to collect later.
Karen's decline from someone who just enjoys a drink to a full-scale mess of an alcoholic is probably triggered by Sean's death, as seen in chapter 2 after Sean is rescued, there is some dialogue that suggests Sean and Karen had a relationship, as if you greet Karen during the party, Arthur will say something along the lines of "So, you've got your boy back", and later in the night Karen can be seen on Sean's lap.
@Borsalino Kizaru as much as I hate micah he did pull his weight when it came to muscle He was a great shooter (see when Sean was shot and Micah was able to react and headshot the man in a few seconds) Micah just shouldnt have been listened to by dutch and he should have been punished for riling up the other members of the gang
I feel that the reason why Dutch was in Micah's cabin was because his ego was too strong to be swayed that Micah was the rat. He shoots him because he owes something to Arthur, but won't admit it. "The same reason you are here" is an excuse for, sorry I was a complete idiot. Dutch won't admit fault.
We all know what happened to Karen: She met a dairy farmer by the name of Poovey and is the great great grandmother of Pam from Archer - to whom she passed many of her tendencies both good and bad.
No you get that dialogue no matter what. I'd literally never done any hunting except for the one time you get a bison with Charles, and it still said that line.
Poor Karen... after Sean died she took it hard. She tried to put up a brave front but it slipped sometime. Arthur talked about it once with her; she didn’t say it but she missed him. Then after Hosea, Lenny, and Molly died she couldn’t take it anymore. I went looking for her when she went missing... I hope she’s at peace.
I feel like it might stem from Sean's death, too. Seeing as they slept together during Sean's welcome back and they clearly showed at least a little affection toward one another to some capacity up until he is killed. Already being an alcoholic, she probably became incredibly depressed after his death since she doesn't really start to become a bad drunk until after he's gone.
the fact you "think" this is what happend when the game not only showed you but TOLD YOU this tells me people need to learn how to use fucking CONTEXT holy shit people, drive me insane with stupidity
She actually din't lose her mind for tons of reasons but except for 2 and that's Molly's death and also Sean's death. Everybody knew that Sean and Karen are lovers in secret and there's a hidden dialogue that even went in soo deep that it's about both of them asking each other if they truly loved each other and if I'm not mistaken, there's even a mini dialogue or... Hidden background cutscene where you can hear them both fucking each other in a tent during the Clements Point chapter. When Sean died in Rhodes, Karen was a little bit deranged and started being more and more unkempt but when they had to flee even further towards the mine area in chapter 6 and having to witness the death of Molly, that really destroyed her.
My theory: she heads back to Clemens Point. Sean is buried there and liquor is plentiful in that region so it naturally was the last place she was happy. If you go back there in the epilogue it looks like a recent camp with ALOT of beer bottles and empty cases of whiskey. It’s by a river so I think she finally went to far and drowned.
Another user said there’s a newspaper in Strawberry that says she was arrested in 1904 for drunken violence. And since the newspaper mentions she was a member of the old Van Der Linde Gang, perhaps being drunk made her tell the truth about her past. People are unknowingly very honest when they are drunk. So maybe she slipped and told them about the Van Der Linde Gang so she was hanged. If she just stuck to the drunken violence crime, she would’ve just had to serve jail time. But since she a former member of an infamous gang, she was publicly hanged. That’s what I think happened.
You missed out her romance with Sean. When you get Sean back, he drunkenly tells her he loves her with her denying it. They then go to a tent and have sex, where a rather sad conversation takes place and afterwards the two are sometimes seen together. After Sean died, her mental state crumbled. Also might explain why she defended Molly even though Karen has always shown her dislike for the woman.
I wish there had been something we could have done in the game to try and help her. I guess that would have made it less realistic as in real life you can't help someone unless they want to be helped, but considering it's a game I wish that there could have been a way to get her onto a different path, or at the very least a way for us to get a definitive answer as to what happened to her.
KaReN wEnT tO sPeAk To ThE mAnAgEr & StOlE mY kIdS.
WhErE aRe My FuCkInG kIdS KaReN?
karen
@@yeetgaspucci5785 sesco
Goddamn it was Karen who took Jack and gave him to papa bronte
Karen le epic stole the kids
Karen: I DoNt KnOw
U didn’t mention that she lost her mind because of Sean’s death, she is unstable at the beginning of the game and as soon she reconnect with Sean she start to be happy and nice again, but then when her lover dies she falls again into drinking
She loses her mind for a plethora of reasons.
Minecraft
@@que9621 True
She lost her mind because Fortnite "supposedly" game ended itself.
@@Fizhy but sean was the main reason
She marries Gavin and moves to Tahiti.
thats what i said 😂😂😂
@@PumpkinEater200 wait have you seen gavin dont worry he's my mate
😂😂😂😂 facts
Lmfaoooo
funny yet sad
I think it’s even sadder that she died alone and forgotten. It’s a tragedy you couldn’t get if her fate were outright confirmed.
Part of me hopes she didn't die and that she'll make a return if there's another read dead, but it would be quite the tragedy. People rag on her character but she was far more likable than Bill, Molly, uncle, or even Dutch.
@@easternrebel1061 I will take no uncle slander in this house
@@easternrebel1061
Unfortunately, Karen dies. And I don't think it from alcohol,it was the Pinkertons. I honestly think they caught her in the confusion, Karen was too drunk to be aware until it was too late.
@CipherRage0909 I wish it did end like that, Karen is one of my favorites because she reminds me of my wife. Not the drinking though.
@@easternrebel1061 nope uncles the best
Arthur Morgan: I have been bad, I have been killing animals just for the hell of it.
Me: ARTHUR, I ONLY KILLED THOSE ANIMALS TO PROVIDE FOOD FOR THE CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMP.
SAME!!! I honestly yelled when he said that I was like the only reason I’m killing animals is so the people at camp won’t bitch at me
That's weird, I hunted often and Arthur rarely said that. For me, he would only mention it if I kept accidentally running over animals.
I think it's to do with leaving the carcasses and just harvesting the meat.
C. S. Matlock good point
I know right man.
I think you misunderstood the ending of RDR2, Micah never ''teamed up'' with Dutch. He lured Dutch to the mountain with the blackwater money. If you listen when John talks to Dutch at mount hagen at the end John asks: ''what are you doing here'' and Dutch answers: ''same as you'''. This indicated that Dutch went to the mountain with the intention of killing Micah because he finally understood that Micah was the downfall of his enitre gang.
Yes, and Micah also states "all kinds of strange visitors today" or something along those lines when he meets you. Dutch finally recognised he got duped and went there, probably not really knowing what exactly he would do until he went and shot Micah.
Yes yes and yes finally someone says the same thing I've been saying for a year. Dutch was going to kill Micah regardless if John showed up
Fair enough, I believe Dutch helped Micah retrieve the Blackwater money first anyway so I don't think I misunderstood so much as missed out a detail.
yup
@@Fizhy Dutch is a very complex character so I don't blame you. Different theories are possible, ranging from him being a highly ego-driven man who never cared for the gang from the beginning and took everybody down with him to him truly caring for the gang from beginning to end but becoming more unhinged in how he protects the gang as the game progresses. He's the most difficult to grasp character in the game.
I think they left Karen's fate ambiguous to add a tinge of realism to the breaking up of the gang. Try to recall graduating highschool, one certainly doesn't know where everyone they knew ended up. I think Rockstar is trying to add that feeling of uncertainty regarding the whereabouts of people you once knew and maybe even thought of as family.
☝☝Just finished my 3rd playthrough and was wondering about all these characters and if I missed something (again). I think this is what Rockstar wanted with Karen. Someone who is broken, alone, abandoned and just wonders off in the world with no hope. No one knows where they went and what became of them. All we know is that she probably never recovered because if she had, she might have reached out to someone like Tilly. Then she succumbs to the drink, poor health and a broken soul.
Agreed
She started drinking more after Sean’s death
SAIF THE EDGE 😂 🤷🏾♂️
Sean must have been her lover or best friend
Allen Amanda Smith he was. Sometimes in camp you can see them kissing and even going into a tent for some “fun”.
She was fucking sean that's why she did it
Allen Amanda Smith
Definitely lover because they had sex in johns tent
Karen is the strange man
obviously
I believe you're onto something there...
Or maybe shes GAVIN
cHiCKen-playZ- 10 or maybe she’s my dad
@@swagstergaming7548 Gavin is now the strange man
When Karen sings "Lorena" at the campfire, I fall a little bit in love with her. I mean, Arthur does. Yeah, Arthur.
Ive been replaying story mode and that was a great moment for her character.
Boi what the hell boi
I also jerk off to animated character, I mod the game so I can do whatever I want. Karen is still tied up I believe.
@@elfbrownie7226 what the fuck😂😂 (what mod)
@@elfbrownie7226 ah yes, I have uncle tied up he’s so hot 🥵🥵🥵
Karen reflects the state of the gang...
Now that you mention it. That actually makes sense
I never thought about it like that...
So if the gang dies
She dies too
That makes sense
MatYourBoi sound like an English teacher lol
Bruh thats so deep bruh...............
I'm surprised reverend Swanson didn't try and help her more considering he got clean and is a man of god.
*Insert joke about him not getting a money reward from it*
Artifice I’m sure like everyone else, he tried but does not pressure her as he knows what it is like to depend on alcohol or rather be codependent.
I think he probably would have. Specifically 4:50. That's at the chapter 6 camp, which is where Swanson came to his epiphany and that retort from Karen sounds like what Swanson would say. Also, if you talk to him when he leaves on the train he said he asked the women and Jack to come with him but they refused. I think he came to his senses of how it was gonna end and there was no stopping it, and tried to pull the women and Jack out but they refused and he changed as he states at the train "I can't/won't die over some nonsense sprouted by a fool." It can also be found out in epilogue that he moved to New York and became a preacher which refers to the changed man and that man would have tried, especially high honor Arthur play through
ye i played honor, i'm also a recovering alcoholic so maybe i looked to far into it, or not enough as you have shown :).
By that time it was to late. They needed out his out was the cluster her out was alcohol.
It’s sad because Karen was one of my favorite ladies at the camp, not the best person but probably one of the most complex when it comes to her character. And that moment when you can get a chance to dance with her is just wonderful
Yeah, I went through all the real emotions of dealing with a real life alcoholic with Karen. At first you're like "oh, she's fun!" And it quickly becomes annoying, then sad, then tragic.
she got two big personalities
Legends say she is speaking to the manager of Rockstar
Jeroen Hofstee u killed me😂😂👏🏻
I don’t get it 😂 someone please tell me
mediumsocial772 oh right lol thanks
@Jeroen Hofstee - Lol
Jeroen Hofstee no legend says she went to go speak to the manager of the Pinkerton agency
Glad that i'm not the only one who still plays singleplayer.
It's a great single player, to be fair. Still go back to it myself.
Agreed! online is overrated, first people were bitching about it, now they're jacking off to it.
Are you talking to me?
Curned I mean who the hell else you think you talking to you talking to me? I’m the only one here. Great movie!
yup, i downgraded to 1.0.0 just for the singleplayer even though i had to restart my savefile because rockstar corruped it because of me downgrading ;(
Micah was actually going to turn in Dutch at the end of the game. You can tell this by how Pinkertons show up to the scene in the credits
Makes a lot of sense
Wow, I've been playing this game for two years and I never realized it
They were actually federal agents, not Pinkertons. But it is easy to believe that Micah was gonna turn in Dutch since he only cares about himself
@@bradleyrutledge no in this game they were the Pinkerton detective agency Ross and Milton. but I. rd1 Ross and his partner were federal agents. nobody has addressed this hole
@@C.M.Goingplaces I was talking about in the credits of the game after the epilogue
She got captured by Gavin
She's Gavin.
Gustavo Lima *hold up..*
@@GustavoLima-us9sr Or Gavin's the strange man
Damn normie
She got LuMbAgO
Being a vulnerable woman in murfree country doesn't suggest a pleasant end.
Mary-Beth was in Murfree Country, too, for a short while before quietly leaving the gang with Mr. Pearson. Although, Mary-Beth was with a man who knew how to use a knife and a cleaver, so maybe Mr. Pearson is the only reason she survived. Karen had nobody, so she was vulnerable to the Murfree Brood.
@@yeetgaspucci5785 but we don't know for sure. Being picked up by the murfrees is a good theory too
Especially with that pair of "assets"
Fuck that’s sad, seems plausible since no one has seen her after chapter six. Alcohol poisoning is one thing but being caught by them is a fate worse then anything
She could throw punches though...
Honestly, Karen is one of my favorite characters, the first cutscene in the bank robbery mission with her, it took me off guard how she was using the lingo and talking about how much law would be there, but she’s as brave as Sadie and honestly a little more level headed, it’s a shame, but part of the tragedy that Sean’s death had such an effect on her.
Hear me out... Karen is the physical embodiment of the gang, you can interpret the state the gang is in by Karen's mental state. As the gang declines so dose Karen mental health, by the end when shes no longer found in camp is when the gang is at its worst, and no longer a united group. No Karen = No more gang, its over. Hope someone in RUclips land can understand what im trying to explain lol..
thats what i kinda thought her being drunk more and her mental state was because of the gang falling apart
I can see this
+ Arthurs declining health is also an embodiment
Ok....
two events changed karen:
Sean’s death (most obvious)
Being the reason Kieran died (Karen encouraged Kieran to drink some whiskey after Jack is returned in Chapter 4, and Kieran drank until he got ambushed by the O’Driscolls in his drunken stroll.
Arthur: "I've been killing innocent people...for no reason."
Me: *NOOOO* if it wasn't the shitty legal system in this game that got me in trouble, it was those "innocents" that took the first shot and I killed them in *SELF DEFENSE*
Mr J ain’t it a bitch I was getting capped because fuckers were trying to jack me and I kill them and than get the cops on me
Mr J exactly when those “innocents” shot me first and I killed them for self defense my honor goes down and the law goes on me.
Yea in this game , there is no.such thing as self defense
Those moments when U get punched infront of a cop 😆😆😆😆
When you get ambushed by people so you kill them and get a bounty...
I think Karen took Sean’s death really hard and that escalated her drinking.
and captain obvious award of the day goes to
Karen enters heaven looking for a peaceful relief from life
Sean: “THhhEeReEe’Ss THhhE SsEeXsIiEeST WwOomANn AaLiVE”
*Hell*
Sean: "Heaven? Ha! Sorry, my love but heaven didn't want us!"
Why did i really read this in Seans voice 💀
Not so alive anymore
@@elmothecrackaddict646 ha who hurt you🤣
Leopold is probably the most loyal member of the gang, even though he kicked out of the gang when the Pinkertons picked him up, he still never said a word
Legitimately made me said. It was obvious Arthur was a bit blaming on him for his tb
@@djdud132 how?
@@funkyoa if it wasn't for strauss sending him to Thomas downes he wouldn't have gotten tb
@@djdud132 strauss fully expected arthur to beat money out of downtrodden people whom strauss preyed upon with his loans. he wouldnt have cared if arthur took the last bit of wealth from the man and his pregnant wife or the widow and her young son, both of which were pretty much homeless. and strauss certainly wasnt losing sleep over downes and the fate of his family. Arthur was justified in his disgust of Strauss. Strauss may have been loyal and in the end he wasn't spiteful in the least over what happened, but that doesn't take away what he did.
@@fuzzywuzzy4564 and Arthur killing lawmen and depriving children of their fathers isn’t any better. High honor Arthur is a joke, he’s a disgusting criminal plain and simple is he was to be a real life human
Everyone is saying that Sean’s death started her descent and while that’s partially true, if you walk through camp during Clements Point (at which point Sean is alive) there’s times Karen is absolutely wasted & depressed and Arthur tells her to take it easy. I think she was falling apart before Sean’s death by being stuck with outlaws on the run but his death just accelerated it.
It's mostly Ms. Grimshaw that causes her to be depressed, because she was always mean to Karen and she basically made Karen go out to sell her body to bring money into the camp, and she wasn't just selling her body and having fun doing it, she was basically selling herself to the poorest nastiest men that were willing to part with a dollar, which clearly made her feel worthless. Probably not even just regular guys, but like old dirty men, and guys like the ones Micah brought in. What's even worse is she only made Karen go out to do it. Mary Beth and Tilly didn't have to, and Karen did it thinking she was being a big sister to the other girls for doing it, taking one for the team, saving them from having to do it too, but it was horrible for her to the point she had to be drunk to do it and had to drink more after she did it, because when she sobered up she felt even worse about the things she had to do to bring a few dollars in to the camp.
If you look at the type of donations each character makes in the log book, they're actually sort of specific to each character. Karen typically brings in small amounts of money less than 5 dollars and small jewelry, indicating she either stole it or sold her body for it. And when she brings in $5, that doesn't mean she only sold her body to one person. She might have only gotten a dollar or less per person, and desperate for cash, she would basically sell herself for almost anything she could get while she was out of camp. She didn't have the luxury to be picky.
Absolutely agree on this.
I kinda like the idea that we don’t know exactly where everyone ends up, kind of like real life
Yeah while it does feel more immersive for me and more real I’d like to learn what happened to her
We know most people though don't we?
@@RaphaelAmbrosiusCosteau Yeah I guess
We pretty much discover or find out where where the rest of the gang ends up, Karen just disappears completely, it’s pretty sad. Drinking herself to death was just more likely a cause of death than anything else, losing Sean hit her hard, and the eventual demise of the gang made it worse.
just like
It was Sean's death that started her descent. Their relationship and his sudden death explains her extreme reaction to Grimshaw for killing Molly for just "being in love."
I'm not gonna lie when I first played the game I felt Sean's death was when things all started to spiral out of control too
@@awsomelyrandomstuff916 In a lot of ways, yeah. It was the flashpoint that signaled they weren't going to just get away scot free. Sure, we knew that because of RDR1, but the internal narrative of RDR2 definitely begins to shift right at that moment to something darker and more foreboding.
Honestly I was glad the annoying sht died, think about it ,at the train robbery the cops could have been avoided if I didn't have to shoot to get rid of the guard strangling sean, I never felt like he ever did anything for the gang except make it worse, I think, instead it all went spiraling down after Kieran's death, he was just a humble little man who got captured by a huge group of good for nothing outlaws and when the situation gets so bad that the innocent boy gets killed, thats when you know its gonna trouble from then on
Also I'm kinda disappointed that during Molly's death scene you can't just press r2 to kill her right then and there because I was spamming r2 button to kill the little traitor
@@ivanmendez6252 bro molly never snitched it was just a cry for attention
4:49 - "on the hooch" - But when Arthur meets Francis Sinclair, he pretty much says that he doesn't know what "hooch" means.
Where do you think h llearned it?
Hooch was first used in the 1860s
Me in a mission: kills 117 cops robs a train and kills 77 innocent people: nothing happens.
Me in gameplay: calls somebody fat - *YOU HAVE LOST HONOR*
Yeahhhhhh
It’s just as bad when your not even the one who said the first insult
Killing lawmen randomly loses honor
Insults a cop in Saint Denis:
*you have reached max negative honour*
No problem shoots 20 lawmen who probably have families, just doing their job trying to stop you.
Loses honor shooting their horses to stop them and leaving the lawmen alive.
The only Karen I can respect
Press F to pay respects
Karen from spongebob: * sad computer noises *
Eh Meh Smeh lol underrated comment
@@ricegrain1809 f
@ not as big as her attitude
It is my personal belief that Karen ( upon leaving the gang ) went on a raging bender for a time , woke up one morning with a typical client in her bed and had an epiphany... cleaned herself up , decided to do something with herself and became a mildly famous folk singer ... think about it , she had all the back material needed to make songs to rip your heart right out of your chest ... I think she made it
I'd like to believe that. But sadly, it's pretty much confirmed she drinks herself to death, because Tilly tells John that in the epilogue. Of course Tilly says she doesn't know for sure.....but how would she? No one is going to talk much about a random woman drinking herself to death one night. The fact that no one hears anything about her pretty much confirms she's not around anymore for there to be anything to hear. Also, it's a possibility the Pinkertons picked her up and tortured her too. She disappears right around the time Strauss is picked up and tortured to death by the Pinkertons, and they weren't above kidnapping women, because they kidnapped Abigail. So it's a high probability the Pinkertons nabbed her. We only hear about Strauss as an offhand rumor, and no one is really going to care anything about a lowly working girl going missing, especially in those times. Considering she was a drunk, she'd be easier to nab up than even Strauss was.
I would hope that in RDR3 we'd see Karen managed to get herself together, but that'd be too perfect. The Reverend Swanson was one of the few that got that chance. I'd like to think Karen ran into a nice man one day, who had love at first sight for her, and treated her right, and even didn't care about her working girl past, and gave her a good proper life to be proud of. Or maybe she was drinking one night at a bar and started signing, and there happened to be a music guy there who loved her voice and signed her on, she made good money and found a good man. Another fitting ending would be her starting up her own bar/brothel, but making it a really respectable place because of being well aware of how harsh that life can be, so changed some things. So she gets some girls working for her at first, and uses that money to startup a high class gentlemen's club that allows the women to choose who their customers can be, and has a nice friendly atmosphere.
Me not killing innocent folk:
Arthur: Yyyeeeaahhh mind if I just...
Big Husko you’re required to in the story a few times so it’s still true.
I’m Six not really it’s ultimately up to you hell you even decide what to do with the snitch.
Granted you do kill lawmen and police officers just doing their jobs and if you also count what happened in strawberry
Tristan Rodriguez you kill a lot of innocent bystanders in Strawberry who happen to be armed and ready.
WILL B it was the Wild West, everybody was armed and ready
WILL B yeah what the other guy said having a gun was like owning shoes also how does that make them bad people? Especially when a good chunk of them were lawmen?
It alwas seemed strange to me how pearson is wearing that big cozy coat in Rhodes where temperatures are far from winter levels. 😅
He's not always wearing it. Everytime I go in there he's always wearing a shirt with suspenders. I wish there was more dialogue with Pearson about the old days of the gang
@@MrBlack252 oh.. guess I wasnt always focused. Anyway, yeah more dialogue would be great.. in one dialogue he mentions sending a letter to beechers hope that never came. They could at least add that. :)
ikr
Well, maybe Pearson has a medical condition that causes him to feel cold often. If I’ve been sitting for a while, I will on occasion get very cold, even in the summer.
@@JaySeraphon maybe feller
Chapter 1 to 4: Red Dead Redemption 2.
Chapter 5 to 6: Red Dead Depression 2.
Still my most fav game tho, along with The Witcher 3.
Also thanks for the lore.
lmao its 3 am and this comment fucked my brain for a good minute because my tired ass thought both said "Red Dead Redemption 2"
She died of a broken heart. RIP to Sean and Hosea.
What about lenny
@@meshari4843 shot
@@fumzicles yes we all know lenny got shot. He didn’t mention him though
And Lenny.
@@fumzicles DONT REMIND MEEE
4:10 Karen is actually right here. Molly didn’t do shit, it was all Micah.
Not for the Saint Denis robbery, this set up was just caused by them killing Bronte, which lead the pinkertons to expect them here. Micah was caught on his way back from Guarma, which is when he begins his collaboration with Milton.
@@Hibbzon Molly did not rat them out though. And there is evidence to suggest Micah was ratting them out beforehand
@@mitchellbenford3896 Milton says they picked him up right after guarma. There’s no reason he would lie to Arthur cause he had a gun to his head.
Gold is useless netherite is 🆒
@@oscarwang7227 no Micah did rat before guarma think
He was responsible for Dutch and colm meeting again
And colm said they were there to capture Arthur only and also it’s weird that Micah specifically only wanted Arthur to come along too
Micah obvs tried to get Arthur out of the way to make it easier to influence dutch
What if, and an "I hate my brain for thinking this" kind of if, she was abducted by the remnants of the Murfree Brood? We can still encounter them in the epilogue, so it stands to reason that there are still some nearby and out there when the gang took Beaver Hollow. What if, in her drunken state, she wandered just enough out of the camp and got picked up by those degenerates?
She went to complain to the manager.
This is a criminally underrated comment.
She’s coming to take my kids!!
I don’t understand this joke please explain
Popa Marius Iulian Well thats the joke. Just being called “Karen” makes you the butt of that joke.
nailed it!
The game's been out for a year and he still warns viewerw of spoilers. Kudos to this awesome gentleman.
Make that two years now
Well i just finished playing it in pc so...
@@maxnp7369 dang that late
@Mercury about a week ago week ago
Not that big of deal.
This video made me realize Strauss was the real gangster. He got caught and died without being a snitch while running real money schemes
Strauss was the first sign of Dutch losing his mind. The point of Van der Linde gang is to steal from the rich and give back to the poor. Strauss was kinda the opposite of that and yet dutch allowed him to operate in the gang
I spoke to Mary-beth during that Arthur therapy session, and he said something more like- "I have been killing animals no good reason."
After that, I made a point to not leave any animals that I kill, no matter the quality or inconvenience.
And then in the next one, he said something about "...killing innocent folk."
But I had been playing super saintly high honour Arthur with little to no human kills outside story missions.
So I don't know if they were story missions people, he was more conscious of those he did kill, or it's just a catch-all line and not yet honour specific.
It’s not honor specific. Two play throughs in a row, only killing in story missions, and for food. He says the same things each time.
I think Rockstar put those lines in the game to be independent of the honor system to emphasize the player that Arthur is an "anti-hero" not a "good guy"... he's supposed to be the best of the worst was my take. But it did piss me off when he said those things because I wasn't killing random animals without harvesting them and I was playing high honor Arthur - no killing unless scripted by the game --- so those statements caught me out of left field too.
This games legal system doesn’t discern murder; premeditated or in the moment, involuntary manslaughter, and stand your ground all that well. It has a very juvenile black and white, absolute good and evil, which is weird because one the games messages is “people are complicated and nobodies all good or bad”. Doesn’t seem to matter if you’re doing a pacifist run and only kill when the game forces you toZzzz
@@lufsolitaire5351 You didn't make any sense
@@xzjulio17 I’m saying the cops don’t give a fuck if it was in self defense they’re still going to shoot you over every little infraction.
She either drank herself to death or after the final gang hideout is destroyed, she probably didn’t last long stumbling drunk through Murfee country
Gum Huffer Gaming lore of what
@@soulkmnp6816 the murfee brood
@Gum Huffer Gaming Well Charles and Arthur took most of them out, so I'm a little doubtful of that
@@kennethortiz2043 but when you go back to Beaver Hollow, the Broods repopulate the area so it's likely they multiplied like rats in the 7 years.
Oh God...
it still baffles me to this day how strauss kept quiet in custody
Arthur tells Karen to take it easy on the hooch. "The hooch" is a phrase that he learned from the time traveller.
A little jazzed
Late to the party on this conversation, but Arthur also uses it with Professor Andrew Bell the third with the electric chair quest. "Well as luck would have it, you are in the legal hooch Capitol of America. There's plenty of real booze here. But for shine I'm guessing you'll need to go out to the woods"
Actually, hooch short for Hoochinoo (1877) term is liquor made by Alaskan Indians, from the name of a native tribe in Alaska whose distilled liquor was a favorite with miners during the 1898 Klondike gold rush. So the word was was already used in the 1800s not the 1920s
@@mellochello921 you learn something new everyday
Oh shit! Todays RDR2's one year anniversary! Damn has a year really passed that fast?! :O
Ikr
Ikr i also can't bellive it
Actually it's in 2 days, 26th October
And online is ruining it
DAMN
red dead 3. Arthur's death was a major wake up call for Karen. In 1900 she goes on to firm her own gang of mostly female outlaws. The story picks up west of New Austin, where Karen's gang is on the run from Pinkertons after a major train robbery
"I have been killing animals just for the hell of it."
ALLIGATORS ARE NOT ANIMALS THEY ARE SOULLESS MONSTERS
DON'T YOU TALK ABOUT MY CUDDLY SWAMP KITTENS THAT WAY!!!!
You know, they are a Great source of meat! Big Game is the Best!!
@@zuzupetals1676 Yeah true and you get good money from the pelts too (I just kill them for fun)
I love gators!😭
Don’t ever hurt dem scaly swamp doggos
My playthrough was a moral one, and having that conversation with Karen made me feel like i was being accused by my own character of doing things I never did just because the game expected me to!
Gamers truly are an oppressed class.
Did you not kill half of the lawmen to free that Rat from Strewberry?
@@adityaganjoomech all that is self defence they’re shooting at arthur
@@Y2JFanboy They were shooting at Artur because Arthur was helping a criminal to escape
I killed a dog. That's what it gets for barking at me.
I always play the good guy I just can’t do bad things in the game 😂
In Arthur's journal he says "tilly, mary-beth , save karen if she ain't to far gone."
In my opinion, Karen was always a bit unstable. During Sean's party, when they're having time together in the tent, she says something along the lines of "I just want to be seen" which shows that there was always a kind of disconnect there. Maybe she doesn't feel entirely like she belongs anywhere, who knows. But after Sean dies suddenly and totally without warning, I think that's her turning point. That's when she finally breaks and instead of trying to reach out to the members of the gang, who are all feeling the same loss (to some extent...obviously Sean and Karen were quite close) she pushes them further away. Her story is so sad.
It is very sad, heartbreaking even.
She says that in the tent because she's a working girl, and most of the men she sells herself to are some of the lowest men around. Basically she goes into town and finds whoever she can with a dollar that is willing to buy her. That's why she says she wants to be seen, because the men she sells herself to are just quickies in an alley way who do their business and move on, and they don't give a care about her. You see this in the one mission with her where you save her. She's been used and abused her entire life.
She's not a working girl in a brothel with protection, and the men she has in the camp aren't always around to protect her. It's presumed that the entire time the camp was moving around, she was thieving and selling herself whenever she could, to whoever she could, because everyone had to contribute. Obviously that messed her up psychologically, because she didn't just get with fit handsome men, she had to get with old nasty men and basically the poorest men around, that weren't necessarily clean or nice to her. They just did their business and moved on, or worse.
You can imagine that if someone as lowly as Sean was her choice in a sort of boyfriend, the men she was selling herself to were even lower than Sean. And even Sean wasn't that great, because instead of stopping to comfort her, he just kept going while she cried, even though she told him to. So basically Sean was the closest thing she could get to someone treating her right, and he was basically using her too, even if he wasn't particularly mean to her. The whole thing was just a mess.
Part of the problem was also Ms. Grimshaw, because there's dialog where she makes a fuss about the girls pulling their own weight, and essentially telling them to sell their bodies. Karen and Grimshaw have a few arguments in the camp. So Grimshaw was basically encouraging Karen to go out and sell herself, while also making Karen's life suck at camp. I think it got to the point that Karen needed to be drunk to go out to sell herself, which only made her regret the situations she got into even more, and so she drank even more when she got back to camp.
And if you think of how rough they were living in the caravan, she didn't even really have much clean herself up with after. Now imagine how it would have been without much in the way of being able to bathe yourself, then having to go out to sell yourself. She probably didn't smell too good, and that would only make the men she sold herself to respect her even less, while also making her insecure. Then at the same time, she got the stank of the lowly men on her and all those unwashed bodily fluids on her, and was still selling herself, which would only make her less desirable and feel even worse. And it's not like she had money for a new wardrobe either, she was practically wearing rags. She would have only been able to sell herself to the poorest lowest men, for very low prices, which made her feel worthless and psychologically destroyed her.
But yeah, after Sean went, she was still selling herself, which only made it worse, because she had to make that money but didn't have time to grieve, even though she didn't have much to grieve over because Sean was lowly anyways, which also made it worse, because that's the closest thing she had to someone that cared about her and it still really wasn't much. It's like someone taking the last dollar out of your pocket. It isn't worth much, but it's all you had. In her own way, Karen's story was more tragic than most others because you can tell she was used and abused her entire life.
Just a nitpick, but her alcoholism didn't make her mental state degrade as the phrasing here says. The cause and effect are backwards. As her anxiety over the gang's problems, worries of the future and grief worsened, her dependency on alcohol worsened. Just wanted to point it out, as someone in recovery, since most people still think alcoholism is a flaw in one's moral character and not a mental health issue
Well said
You’re both being exclusive to your theories when it could easily have been both
Stay strong brother
I'd say it's a positive feedback loop.
She is feeling bad, so she drinks alcohol - alcohol then makes her feel even worse, so she drinks more alcohol etc.
Its not a mental health issue because you're drinking a toxic intentionally. Alcohol doesnt create itself on its own in your body you decide to drink it. You pick it up and chug it. Your mind doesnt force you. Its not a mental disease. You thinking its a mental illness is the reason why you will never get over your addiction. You have learned to accept its a disease rather than control your urge.
Just realised Arthur tells Karen to take it easy on the "hooch" but when the time traveller says you'd think he's on the "hooch" Arthur doesn't know what it means lol
I think it may be the way it is worded like Arthur calls her a hooch as an insult whereas the time traveller says it as a mental state
@@maxreece2402 no like hooch means alcohol so when Arthur told Karen to take it easy on the hooch he was saying drink less of it and the time traveler said if I told you you'd think I was on the hooch as in you'd think he'd been drinking
@@seandonntheg8433 ah that makes sense now probably just a mistake on their side and forgot that Arthur says it
Woah the last time i was this early people still thought the strange man was trelawney
Fockin idiots!
The tree branch he is
@@sinkliner3836 NO HE'S not.
@@sinkliner3836 🅱️
Did someone mention me?
I'm almost certain that Karen got so shit faced wasted, she stumbled a lil too far from camp and was captured by some Murfrees.
No one knows what happened to her or where she went.
One minute she was in camp, next she was gone.
Everyone else left of their own accord: Pearson and Uncle snuck off.
Tilly stayed till the gangs last day, as well as Abigail, and Mary-Beth snuck off too.
Poor Karen was kidnapped in her drunk state and will never be seen again 😢
That's actually quite likely.
They tend to capture females rather quickly, as can be seen in a specific encounter.
@@murfreehills7410 not to mention that they seem to keep women alive and caged, like the girl from Annesburg you save with Charles, or the encounter with a captured women in the back of a wagon with 2 dead men and she just runs off screaming without a thank you.
Murfree practically remind me of the Hills Have Eyes creatures who capture women for breeding purposes.
@@kmdreactspoor Karen has one of the most tragic ending, left alone and no one seemed to care about her, she only stays in Tilly’s memories
@@isaac-yout4b it's bloody sad.. Once Sean died, she was never the same, she became more outspoken, especially to Ms Grimshaw and weren't even listening to Tilly anymore, and Tilly & Karen seemed more alike than Mary-Beth..
Honestly, Rock star should just put us all outta our misery and give us the scoop on what happened lol
She's got a smashin' pair tho, amirite?
Some right proper knockers
@@Fulltimeply2 Mighty fun bags
Some glorious gabagazoos
Damn straight
Some big b00bs
On my second playthrough, I explored the Colter camp at the beginning and found the gang trying to stay warm in the former schoolhouse. I spoke to each of them. Karen's first words were "I could use a drink."
This broke me. Karen was a grand soul. A true "tart with a heart". An absolute soldier and stawart. Some dodgy Irish bint digs her claws in, and she falls to the bottle out of personal shame. She deserved so much better.
“Go scratch your sores you old bag”
“Excuse me?”
“You heard!”
That always gets me🤣🤣🤣
RDR 3 should take place in 1884 expanding across 7 states in the west, with new characters
not new characters but let us play between hosea, dutch and arthur or even john and the prologue should be arthur getting rescued by dutch and should end with the gang escaping into ambarino
I would love to see a new story in rdr3 but still revolving around the gang. Remember that guy named davey who died before the rdr2 story starts? I want to control as him and witness a young arthur and john then progress until davey dies and arthur will be the epilogue character with all the gang present and still alive. After beating the game, it will give arthur a chance to interact with the group with everyone around.
@@Silver32498 Arthur as the epilogue character wouldn't really make sense though, it would just be the plot of RDR2's opening again, as Davey died shortly before
@@dhruvsbeloved that sounds terrible asf naw new characters I'm tired of dutch and John their arcs are over, they can be cameo or referenced but cmon the rdr franchise doesn't have to only revolve around dutch and John like naw to me that sounds more like single.player dlc for rdr 2 but for a game no y'all just need to let go and move on from the game or better yet make rdr 3 a.modern western set in 70s dealing with drugs and corruption in the American south west
@@Silver32498 that'd be a terrible narrative n story tbh
I’ll make the suggestion that Karen was a personification of the gang. At Horseshoe Overlook she was strong. She was even taking guard duty. As the game progressed and the gang moved to poorer locations and as Arthur’s health declined, so did Karen’s condition. As the gang declined, so did Karen. The gang killed itself from the inside out. So did Karen. When the gang dissolved and disappeared, so did Karen.
It made me extra sad because Karen always acted like the strong woman in camp. She always tried to shake it off and always tried to crack jokes but you could tell deep inside she was broken. She was hurting the most and was the most sad. When Sean died she really fell far because even if she didn't seem like she was grieving you could tell she stepped up her drinking alot after that. She loved Sean. She just never admitted it. Sometimes in camps you see her sitting alone and singing, you can see how sad she is inside and to find out she more than likely drank herself to death makes it all that much more heartbreaking.
Sean wasn't great, she didn't love him, he's just the closest thing she had to someone who cared even the slightest about her, and not much at that. It's like someone taking the last dollar out of your pocket; it isn't worth much but it's all you had. That's what makes it all even more sad, because even if Sean hadn't died, Sean and her would have never worked. He wasn't mean to her, but he also didn't see her as relationship material because she was a working girl and could never fully respect her as a long term prospect because of how many men she had been with, just like John didn't really see Abigail as a long term prospect until he got her pregnant, and even then he hesitated because he wasn't sure it was his kid.
Sean would have just used Karen and ditched her too. Although she probably would have been better off going down that path, but not much better, and that makes it even sadder. Basically, Karen had no good path available to her. She wasn't a respectable woman because she sold herself, she was dirt poor, and all the time she spent in low company basically made the low life the only life she knew, which means she couldn't even possibly go off to find a respectable man, because she wouldn't even know the first thing about that life other than it was nicer than what she had. Any respectable guy that would have showed interest, would have soon been repelled by her, because there's no way she could hide her past, it's not just written on her body, it's written in her words and how she carries herself. And once they learned what she was, they would have run away from her.
If you ask me, I think Karen's conclusion was either a part of the scrapped 5 hours of content (along with Arthur's second love interest arc), or Rockstar has something planned for her later on.
I'm leaning towards the former.
If you’re suggesting single player DLC then nah. They’re making too much money with RDO to care about single player DLC
I hope we gonna see her again
@@Kelz91 It's not the first time a single player has been scrapped while they were working on it.
I'd literally pay $60 again for 5 more hours
was the second love interest charlotte balfour? if arthur didnt have TB i think he wouldve settled with her
Lorena at the camp fire and later in the game dancing with her, fell in love with Karen's character
Started playing RDR2 a few days ago and Karen was the reason why I fell in love for this game. Not because her 'body attributes'. One day, backing to the camp at night, I found her singin' 'Lorena' at the campfire. Immediately I started to cry. This game is a masterpiece.
She had a good singing voice like she literally could have been a showgirl back in those times
Your cat is beautiful!😍
@@funtimenotalongtime6122 Thank you! Her name is Pandora and she's 11 years old by now. 😸
One of the best moments in games. That song. Lorena
i never heard that before probally cuz i was busy torturing o driscolls and murfees
She took the kids...
And vaccinated them? Damn, that's good of her.
Had to speak to the manager of R*
69 likes nice
Now that’s a victory royal
RamBones Norris LMFAOO I LOVE YOU
Strauss was one of the most loyal people of the gang, he gets kicked out of camp, picked up by pinkertons, tortured too death without saying a word
I agree as much as I hated him and his missions he was one of the most loyal
Arthur getting all self righteous and kicking him out of camp never sat well with me
Arthur: Hell, I only kill animals for the hell of it...
Me: Arthur I put food on the table and this is how you say the stuff 🥺 my heart is broken...
Lol
jokes aside i think it also relates to the legendary animals. u legit just kill some rare once in a life time animal for a cool trinket. and if it’s a big one like a moose, you leave it’s body to rot
Yeahhhh, she is definitely dead. That kind of dependency must not be easy to break out of. There definitely wasn't any support like AA in these formative times! Oh poor girl. She must have internally suffered & her pain fueled her desire to drink. With the gang being the best thing for her mental health, do you think with how events transpired, that girl have ended up okay? Rockstar knew the lack of information & the darkness of her path makes her tale all the more tragic. 💔
Karen had so many positive relationships in the gang. Years later, those loved ones still wonder about her because of silence? She is dead, I am sure. 😔
Plus the fact that when the gang fell apart, she was likely left alone in the middle of Murfree Brood territory... hopefully the alcohol or something related to it got her before they could.
To be fair, AA is pretty useless compared to other things.
@@azuregriffin1116 it most definately is not
Wherever Karen may be, I hope those tender, good natured mammaries are as good as ever...
lmao
It's been my experience that when a characters fate is left in question with no direct evidence, it's usually so the creators have the option of bringing them back at a later date if they so choose. As they say, if you don't see the body, they're not dead.
That's true, who knows what RDR3 can bring us :)
That moment when uncle outlives most of the gang.
Edit: I don't care about the likes.
the lumbago is a double edged blade
Isn’t one of the “antagonise” options to Uncle as Arthur to say something along the lines of “You’ll probably outlive us”?
You mean all... no one got to age 80
@@lightniningstrike3764 You're forgetting about half of the gang who survived and lived happily ever after, as far as we know.
lightniningstrike urm jack survived the longest
The best tip I’ve discovered and nobody talks about is that lock box and chest items respawn. Including gold bars, cash and jewelry bags. It’s really helpful for John if you decide to not leave Arthur’s money at the pig farm for John to collect later.
Or never cash in the gold that you find from the treasure maps. It will stay in Arthurs bag that he gives to John.
Karen's decline from someone who just enjoys a drink to a full-scale mess of an alcoholic is probably triggered by Sean's death, as seen in chapter 2 after Sean is rescued, there is some dialogue that suggests Sean and Karen had a relationship, as if you greet Karen during the party, Arthur will say something along the lines of "So, you've got your boy back", and later in the night Karen can be seen on Sean's lap.
not to mention she and Sean slip into John's tent lol
Karen: “what’s wrong with you Arthur?”
Arthur: “I just get so angry”
Karen: “maybe you should try getting a job”
By that logic, Dutch should go work in Blackwater.
@@erikallen3804 and sadie in tumbleweed
Says the butch tht donated 12 cents😡
Don't you have a Crucible to oversee?
Why are you locked in the bathroom?
Me: has never killed an innocent person and has max honour stats.
Arthur: 3:37
Micah was right about one thing
The gang needed to drop some people
I'm not saying women specifically most of them pulled their weight with the rest
@Godzilla 2000 homosexual
@@DukesJournal lmao you think that that's what homosexual means
Or are you calling him/her gay?
@@shaun6341 im calling you gay
@Borsalino Kizaru as much as I hate micah he did pull his weight when it came to muscle
He was a great shooter (see when Sean was shot and Micah was able to react and headshot the man in a few seconds)
Micah just shouldnt have been listened to by dutch and he should have been punished for riling up the other members of the gang
In the epilogue, doing some of the bounty missions for Sadie, I remember her outright saying Karen "drank herself to death".
Yep i remember that too
Never in a thousand years did Arthur ever think that someone would prefix his name with "Poor dear"
Im still so mad I dont exactly know what happened to my girl Karen 😔
She was my n.1 gang member.
Ivi Kaputova same here
Liam The End Realm Prince you’re cool
@@dhruvsbeloved DUDE THIS AINT A PORN WEBSITE COMMENT SECTION
Yo same haha
Lenny is number #1
I feel that the reason why Dutch was in Micah's cabin was because his ego was too strong to be swayed that Micah was the rat.
He shoots him because he owes something to Arthur, but won't admit it.
"The same reason you are here" is an excuse for, sorry I was a complete idiot. Dutch won't admit fault.
We all know what happened to Karen: She met a dairy farmer by the name of Poovey and is the great great grandmother of Pam from Archer - to whom she passed many of her tendencies both good and bad.
I'm accepting that as Canon
Arthur: I’ve been killing animals just for the fun of it
(Me sitting there listening with my animal fat, flight feathers and satchels)
You only get that dialogue if you kill animals without skinning them
No you get that dialogue no matter what. I'd literally never done any hunting except for the one time you get a bison with Charles, and it still said that line.
@@KermitTheGamer21, you probably ran over a rodent at some point with your horse. It's easy not to notice.
Hat or fat im confused
@@TCB405 pretty sure I meant fat, I didn’t hunt animals for clothing when I made this comment
Poor Karen... after Sean died she took it hard. She tried to put up a brave front but it slipped sometime. Arthur talked about it once with her; she didn’t say it but she missed him. Then after Hosea, Lenny, and Molly died she couldn’t take it anymore. I went looking for her when she went missing... I hope she’s at peace.
My theory: she got drunk and just wandered off into the woods and she kept walking until she couldn’t keep walking anymore
I feel like it might stem from Sean's death, too. Seeing as they slept together during Sean's welcome back and they clearly showed at least a little affection toward one another to some capacity up until he is killed. Already being an alcoholic, she probably became incredibly depressed after his death since she doesn't really start to become a bad drunk until after he's gone.
the fact you "think" this is what happend when the game not only showed you but TOLD YOU this tells me people need to learn how to use fucking CONTEXT holy shit people, drive me insane with stupidity
Obviously she lived. She's Pam Poovey's great great grandmother.
Ironically enough Karen in Red Dead is almost the exact opposite of typical karens irl
2:49
"Drunk or sober, you watch your math"
She actually din't lose her mind for tons of reasons but except for 2 and that's Molly's death and also Sean's death.
Everybody knew that Sean and Karen are lovers in secret and there's a hidden dialogue that even went in soo deep that it's about both of them asking each other if they truly loved each other and if I'm not mistaken, there's even a mini dialogue or... Hidden background cutscene where you can hear them both fucking each other in a tent during the Clements Point chapter.
When Sean died in Rhodes, Karen was a little bit deranged and started being more and more unkempt but when they had to flee even further towards the mine area in chapter 6 and having to witness the death of Molly, that really destroyed her.
My theory: she heads back to Clemens Point. Sean is buried there and liquor is plentiful in that region so it naturally was the last place she was happy. If you go back there in the epilogue it looks like a recent camp with ALOT of beer bottles and empty cases of whiskey. It’s by a river so I think she finally went to far and drowned.
She was a good girl
And you were a good man.
@@dhruvsbeloved this is not xvideos comments section
Liam The End Realm Prince have fun doing that with your body pillow
@@dhruvsbeloved what if she was pornstar? Probably something mrbossftw would make a video on. Lol
@@viveka2994 mrbossftw who even watches that bastard anymore?
Leaving her ending a mystery is good writing, history is full of whatever happened to blank.
i just think that after the mission where you throw a party after you rescue jack, tilly realized how cold blooded dutch really is and just left
She talked to the manager
I'm sure there was a newspaper saying she was last seen near lakay or lagras I’m not 100% tho
Which one
Can't remeber it may have been an epilogue saint denis or blackwater
Another user said there’s a newspaper in Strawberry that says she was arrested in 1904 for drunken violence. And since the newspaper mentions she was a member of the old Van Der Linde Gang, perhaps being drunk made her tell the truth about her past. People are unknowingly very honest when they are drunk. So maybe she slipped and told them about the Van Der Linde Gang so she was hanged. If she just stuck to the drunken violence crime, she would’ve just had to serve jail time. But since she a former member of an infamous gang, she was publicly hanged. That’s what I think happened.
All I know is we can find out what happens through newspapers in the epilogue
I need answeres, i literally read every newspaper in the game but u couldnt find anything, pls @GorillaBoy147 asnwer me
i love that the first 2 and a half minutes are just stuff we already know
You missed out her romance with Sean. When you get Sean back, he drunkenly tells her he loves her with her denying it. They then go to a tent and have sex, where a rather sad conversation takes place and afterwards the two are sometimes seen together. After Sean died, her mental state crumbled. Also might explain why she defended Molly even though Karen has always shown her dislike for the woman.
She finally found the manager and left.
Javier becoming a hitman
ME: and insane. Don’t forget insane.
I wish there had been something we could have done in the game to try and help her. I guess that would have made it less realistic as in real life you can't help someone unless they want to be helped, but considering it's a game I wish that there could have been a way to get her onto a different path, or at the very least a way for us to get a definitive answer as to what happened to her.