How To Adjust Your Shocks Like a Pro and Go Faster | PART 2 - Two-Way Adjustable Dampers
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2023
- In this second part of our "How to adjust your shocks like a pro series we'll show you how to set up two-way adjustable shocks!
If you missed Part 1, check it out first:
• How To Adjust Your Sho...
Check out our written version of this video if you want more detail: motoiq.com/how-to-adjust-your...
Also check out our Ultimate Guide to Suspension and Handling Series:
Part 1 - Wheels & Tires: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide...
Part 2 - Controlling Body Motion: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide...
Part 3 - Balance the Chassis: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide...
Part 4 - Reduce Weight Transfer: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide...
Part 5 - The Unforgiveable Sin - Overlowering Your Car: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-handl...
Part 6 - Adding Negative Camber: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide...
Part 7 - Tuning Your Toe: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide...
Part 8 - Understanding Your Caster, Kingpin Inclination & Scrub: motoiq.com/the-ultimate-handl...
LINKS:
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Protect this man at all cost!
💯
This dude is a national treasure
@@funkad95 An international treasure I'd say ! (Watching this from Greece)
This guy is a 💎. Great job! I haven’t even watched the video yet and I went from 6 to 12.
I see a new MotoIQ video, I see Mike, I press like. Simple as.
These are the best coilover tuning videos ever made!
I'm so grateful for this series please keep it up brother! If yall' got a patreon a few of us would join I'm sure. This is such good content.
I literally was rewatching part one before work today!
Once upon a time there was a guy on the east coast named Marc Donohue who was educated as an engineer and went on to become a legend in professional racing despite bumbling his way through the technical development aspects by trial and error, lots of hard work, and learning little lessons from elders and colleagues. His memoirs are written in a straightforward way without jargon or formulas. Remind you of anyone? Mike Kojima, this video's presenter, strikes me as the kind of old wolf you'd want to follow if you want to learn the fundamentals, the old ways, and how to run at the front of the pack. We're a lucky audience.
I’ve been doing this for over ten years and I learned a ton!
Thanks for the great info, a very wise methodical technique. Spring rates and roll bars would be an interesting episode, another topic that tends to get the "overbaked" treatment.
"The idea is to get the most mechanical grip, while still maintaining control and having good steering responsiveness" 👍🏾
Love the simple calm explanations! Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
you know your stuff man, I love learning new info. Keep up the good work
Kudos to you and Thank you Mike for sharing your knowledge...really enjoy your words of wisdom in motorsports
Thanks. This is so helpful and easy to understand.
incredible thanks for breaking it down so easy for us
Learned so much from these videos, amazing content.
It's so informative. I was listening to what he said carefully every second and couldn't help to notice what happened at 23:10 These videos are treasure! 👏👏👏
Thank you 😊😎👍you are awesome man.
once again, fantastic info that should be a requirement to join a FB group.
Solid advice!
Thanks again 😊
This is a great video! Do you think you could do another video like this but more towards drifting as well as good bank setups?
I'm so glad I found this channel. I love the delivery of information
Woohoo. More please.
Mr. Mike can you make a video about sway bars front and rear, and the combining this with single adjustment coilovers and dual adjustment coilovers.
Thanks for this great in depth information.
I will definately be applying it on my next project - WRX.
I'm also a fan of KW and one thing that's been on my dream list is the KW HLS, and would love to know how it would affect performance for a street driven track car. My last S15 project suffered at times getting over obstacles, including ramps when getting loaded on a tralier or working on the car.
Any chance on including a bit of info on the KW HLS in part 3?
"If some is good, just right is perfect, more is not better, and too much is awful."
Salam all the way from Kuwait. Part 1 was a lot of help for me. I have kings shocks on my 2019 raptor. It was hell out stiff. Going through the guide lines you gave in part 1 allowed me to adjust it to be so much better onroad and most important offroad 🫡
Awesome knowledgeable content and enjoyed both part 1 and part 2! Any chances to talk about what setup is the best for ride quality?
That is sort of subjective.
Now i just need the money to put all this to practice...
Will you cover how to tell when a shock needs replacing or rebuild and dyno testing your shocks?
Usually when the shock starts leaking or develops shaft play, its time to rebuild.
Fantastic. No flashing lights, unnecessary music or anything else, just well delivered knowledge. Does everything apply equally for FWD?
Yes
Can we substitute spring and helper spring to a sigle progressive one, specific to the car characteristics? How can the bump stop come to some help in such a case? Can't wait for part 3.
I don't like progressive springs myself. See part 1 for bumpstops.
The points about platform and soft vs stiff matter most with non aero dominant cars. More damping will increase response to a point but then falls off very quickly so that they car feels like it's driving through deep mud. In my opinion the more stiff = better ideology comes from karting and aero dominant vehicles. Karting because that's where drivers come up and they are used to no suspension. And aero dominant vehicles more damping is required to control the aero balance.
I would argue that you want your springs compressing (in that, you want to use all of your travel as often as possible) you get more time to let the valving do its job like you said.
Another thing I think that is important to include in these adjustable shock discussions is the mechanism that these adjustments use ie bleed circuits, base valves, etc. That is important because both single and double adjustable shocks tend to cross talk. Such as when you change comp or rebound whatever change you make will affect the other force. Knowing the adjustment mechanism and if the manufacturer provides a damper Dyno curve such as KW you can identify a reasonable starting point.
Lastly, shocks are velocity dependent and springs + sways respond to displacement so in a roll the springs and sways are the primary tools to adjust handling. On a reasonably level track the shock is not experiencing largely differing velocities in a turn or series of turns.
The "stiffness" in aero cars are mostly from springs instead of shock compression/rebound.
@@sepg5084 the springs are stiff because of the added weight of the aero. They still compress. The shocks are stiff because they need to be to control stiffer springs.
I am going to talk about this more in part 3
Third is silly coilover geometry with McPherson and the easy remedy to compensate with added stiffness.
@@edonveil9887 true, since the topic of the video was coilover related I stayed within that geometry. If you can lay the shock down and or have control over your MR's then the world is your oyster.
I know most of this information is transferrable but I would absolutely love and would pay for a drift specific video explaining both single and double adjustable suspension adjustment tactics and how that relates to driver feel for both casual and competitive drifting!
I think I put some drifting stuff in part 3
Hi Mike, I was wondering what you think about penske's regressive valving for track cars. Love your videos
For high downforce formula cars with drivers that like to hit kerbs
Can you guys do a bullet proof b20 motor ?
We will do a B series eventually
@@motoiq Please explain how mean and maximum piston speeds, rod stroke ratio and cylinder wall loading affect the durability of these builds 🍻
This is presuming correct spring rates and internal valving has been optimized to the type of usage, in that case, the knobs may be irrelevant or work as stated......then the knobs may have these effects. Tire type and PSI also must be regarded.
The adjustments are never irrelevant. If not I would never have any work!
And here I am with KYB AGX's only in the front of my Subaru, with the STi stock KYBs in the rear. *sigh*
I just got my first coilovers (kw v3) for my mini jcw, should I keep the original setting from kw manufacture? And what about height? Big thanks 🙏🏻
See part 1
What about aftermarket sway bars, they do reduce the body roll and help keep the car or wheels more flat, can you get away with single adjustment coilovers on the rear and double adjustment coilovers on the front in the case there are only aftermarket rear swaybars for a car model in particular
That would be whack.
Hi Mike, does this applies to off road suspension? For example like a full long travel kit that have coil over and a bypass shock? Currently my truck running a old man EMU PB-51 which is a 2-way, I just couldn’t get it right, it feels too stiff especially the rear it hops like crazy if it weren’t loaded, do you have any suggestions that I could possibly run without bottoming the shocks.
Yes you want to adjust stuff in the same sequence. Since these are internal bypass you don't need to worry about piston position too much. Check out our Tundra videos I explain there.
Got to know how to turn your knob to get the desire to effect. Hehehe
Can you break this down for vehicle platforms? The MR platform is underserved.
No the rules are the same no matter what platform.
@@motoiq Thank you, it appears that the company I'm trying to describe my issue (that you clearly explain in minute 29 and 10 seconds) doesn't believe what I'm saying and believe that I'm riding bump stops, but the car doesn't behave the way you described in part 1. It just feels like it's fighting the pavement during turn 7 of Dominion Raceway in Virginia (a map of the turn or a RUclips video of the track would help with visualization). I'm going to follow their directions on redoing the bump stop and adjusting to their recommended ride height, but it doesn't change the fact that the tires don't grip. 🤷🏻♂️ It's frustrating because there are no professionals in this region who I can go to and get a diagnostic.
Numerous SCCA times trials drivers say my compression is too stiff and ask me to soften it more, but I can't because it's at the softest setting. Would dropping spring rate help slow the frequency any?
You have to know how to do frequency balancing and do the calculations. Did you see part one?
@@motoiq Hi, I did watch part 1, but I can't find where he talks about frequency. I thought that was covered in part 2. My car is corner balanced, but the company based my frequency on other MR2 Spyder track cars, so it's closer to 2.5 Hz, but I don't know exactly what the frequency is front and rear. I'm at a crossroad right now. There aren't any shops that I can take my car to in this area who will consult with me.
Can I reach out to you directly via email? I can pay for your consultation.
2.5 hz? Is this a high downforce time attack car on slicks?
What if you have entry level struts/shocks that only have a single adjustment of 30 clicks for both rebound/compression? Start at full soft, moving up 2 clicks, until you find the sweet spot?
Check out our part one video.
What about phasing for keeping the car level at high speed on long undulations?
What about the interaction between tire stiffness and shock (and spring) stiffness? Tire stiffness is affected by tire pressure, so making the shocks stiff can cause the car to bounce on the tire. That can be fixed by increasing tire pressure, or using stiffer rim and tire combinations.
That is a good observation but not exactly how that works or how you deal with it.
This is the suspension tuning bible.
Curious what the procedure would be for setting your coilovers up if you also have adjustable swaybars. Would you first try and limit the roll with swaybar settings and then dampers? My thinking would be this way as it would demand less from the damping to control the ride. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this.
You tune the balance with swaybars, not set roll. Generally stiff bars need more damping to control.
Okay excellent. I look forward to trying this out
Kw and st are basically the same shocks idk about damping but from what I heard kw owns st. And a lot of people use them it's like bilstein.
Great video! One thing that is a bit confusing to me is when you talk about weight transfer. Namely, you say more compression damping slows down the weight transfer to that axle/corner. As I understand it, weight transfer is a function of tyre forces, weight of the car and centre of gravity vs track/wheelbase. So the same weight transfer will happen regardless of suspension, but dampers induce a time component to it. Increasing the compression resistance slows down the roll/pitch/squat (maybe thats what you meant?) - but it speeds up the weight transfer to the tyres where adjustment was made, as the cars weight acting through COG now has more "resistance" to push against. I.e. if we had a completely rigid suspension (infinite compression damping), there would be no roll/pitch/squat, but the weight transfer would still occur and do so instantly as the weight of the car is directly coupled to the tyres. The resulting loss of grip would thus be not because of the weight doesnt transfer fast enough to that axle/corner, but because it transfers too fast, exceeding the maximal grip tyres can generate (ie why soft suspensions work better in the wet/snow/ice).
Another example, with lateral weight transfer - if a (neutrally balanced) car is setting into a curve and we have more compression resistance on the rear axle, the rear outside tyre would see a faster weight transfer than the front outside, meaning that in that instant, the weight would be more evenly distributed between the front pair than the rear pair. Due to the digressive nature of tyre force vs. weight load curve, the front pair with more evenly distributed weight loads would generate higher grip and thus the rear would loose traction first.
Sorry for the long winded response, but i would like to hear if my understanding is correct?
Short answer, you are correct initially anyway.
@@motoiq Thanks for the response. Where did my thinking go wrong though? Hope you can clear it up. Kind regards!
I don't have time to write a lot, it really needs to be several pages but initially what you say is 100% correct, then comes weight transfer due to body movement which is delayed by the shocks.
@@motoiq Ah yes that, you're right, thanks!
Is the base adjustment is not depending the weigh of the car or the corner weight distribution?
Idealy it is but most people don't have the capability to corner balance the car.
anyone know what's the blue car behind the grey GTR ?
A WRX
how do you adjust 2 ways shocks with highspeed bump/rebound and lowspeed bump/rebound? the two ways shocks you're explaining is having rebound and compressions separate.
Watch part 3
@@motoiq i have watched part 3 but i have a fixed rebound but separate high and low compression.
wondering how does this work out
Is this a bike or an offroad truck? It's like for the 3-ways but without the rebound.
Mike do you think beefing up a suspension on a regular commuter car would help with keeping it in alignment? I've had 3 alignments done in the last 6 months.
Why do you need an alignment every 2 months?
I've had arms and steering rods bend due to pot holes so I understand. 🤣
I think the shops doing your alignments may not be any good. I see this all the time, a lot of shops take your money and do nothing. A lot take your money and if your alignment falls withing the huge factory spec, they do nothing.
@@motoiq For a performance vehicle, you tell them what specs you want, otherwise you don't know what you are doing.
💙🔥
Have you heard about Tein's EDFC product that automatically adjusts your damping force during your ride? What are your thoughts about it?
I tend to not like Japanese shocks.
@@motoiq why is that? Btw amazing content.
I think they only have good roads and smooth tracks. They tend not to have enough low speed in the calibration. It's more of a calibration and culture thing. If it's made in japan the quality itself is high.
The best active dampers out there is MRC (magnetic ride control) used on Corvette, Camaro, Ferrari, Audi, Mustang, Lambo. I have had 2 cars with MRC now (Camaro SS 1LE & Audi TTRS) and they have been the ONLY cars I didn't want to touch the suspension on. I am VERY anal about damping and handling.
Doesn't magride eliminate pretty much everything that was just said?
Magride is only as good as the controller programming.
Is a 2 way shock low speed compression and low speed rebound, or is it hi speed compression low speed rebound?
The first for most shocks.
@@motoiq I assumed, but wasn't positive. Thank you for your video. I just got some JRZ rs pro 3 ways and I was playing with them over the weekend. Car felt great, but i started having some oversteer on the rear of the car. Rear tires were 4 races old. So I think it wasn't worth chasing any issues, but if I have that same issue with new tires i was thinking of tightening rebound a tad in rear, or tightening compression a tad in the front. I took a notch out of my rear sway bar but it was still behaving that way a little. So I figured i'd try tuning it with the shocks the rest of the way.
So to reduce the nose diving and shooting towards the moon, increase the bump more on the rear. What if you increase the rebound and bump more on the rear than the front?
I dunno how you paid attention to the video but that is not what you to reduce nose diving. I have no idea what shooting to the moon is. I suggest you carefully watch the video and understand it.
17:50 >> I guess I'm imagining you talking about nose diving during hard braking or excessive body movement, is related to not enough bump/ compression. Thanks for the reply. Have a good day
Not in the rear though.
I was once told that if you put your damping to stiff… It actually minimize the effects are looking for from the torsion bar BC taking over and doing their job… According to the comment that was made to me is because the car doesn't roll enough to engage him to keep it all the wheels on the ground for contact … Is that true?
Not exactly. You don't want it too stiff because you will unweight the tire contact patch and loose mechanical grip.
You mention starting with compression damping first. When making a couple clicks of adjustment is this done front and back at the same time? Or do the front then dial the back later?
That is an excellent question. At first both but as you fine tune go back and you can mess with one end or the other.
Thanks for the reply! Is there a general rule to compression vs. rebound ratio? Also , maybe i missed it, but what would the symptoms of too little rebound feel like?
You generally run more rebound damping than compression but want to run the most compression and least rebound possible. Too little rebound feel floaty.
Thanks you, very helpful! Love you're Chanel and the information you guys provide
I think that depends on the set-up. I run MCS 2-ways w/ remote canisters on my 718 GT4 and depending on the canister pressures, I usually end up with compression & rebound at the same settings.
I might even back off rebound by 1 click just to get a little better ride quality, but keep compression alone as where I have it set now, it just handles weight transfer enough to not upset the chassis when hard braking.
I have been playing with all kinds of set-ups for over a year now and it definitely has been a learning process. Canister pressure & tire pressures also come into play and add to the mix.
.@@motoiq
Hoping somebody can validate my logic with my coilover adjustments
I set my ride height and loved the KW suggested settings + one click towards hard on both rebound and compression. It was firm and flat, but not jarring.
I then decided to raise my car a tiny bit, and was surprised to feel it get just a bit floaty.
My thinking is that as the springs have increased preload, I should click one more hard on rebound to restrict the spring force.
I did this, and it felt flatter and less floaty.
To get to truly like it was before (in theory), do I need to move the compression one click harder too? Or softer as the springs have more preload I need to soften the compression to compensate?
More rebound, just a little
@@motoiq thanks for responding, even more rebound? I’ve already clicked it up one. I should note that the floatiness is completely gone but now it’s a little harsh.
Leave it then. Try backing off the compression a little. Preload doesnt change the spring rate but it increases the force needed to initially move the suspension.
@@motoiq thanks for the tip, I’ll try it out! Fantastic series of videos by the way. I’ve watched dozens of shock related videos over the last year and this was the only one that explained things in an intuitive and almost tangible way that makes sense outside of a textbook
@@motoiq
Tried out lowering it and it went well!
Adjustments go (relative to KW’s recommended)
Original super low height +1 rebound, +1 bump (perfect)
Then raised a little height, leaving the settings
+1 rebound, +1 bump (floaty)
+2 rebound, +1 bump (no float, but harsh ride)
+2 rebound, +0 bump (perfect ride, little bit of lag on turn in)
Not sure what to do now or if this is the best I can get (which is honestly pretty good but I’m a perfectionist)
Why Doesn't My Tesla Have An Exhaust Pipe?🤔
Did you download the new update?
💙💚🙏
Just makes you realise how all of the other videos on YT about suspension setups are garbage.
If I was 12 years old I would giggle sometimes at the timing of the word stiff. But I would never do that.....🤭
Frist
Talk alot. Show more in details.
Listen and learn, there isnt much to show, just turning a knob!
@@motoiq theres is more than a knob. Like height on the shock vs the bag/spring and preferences vs knob adjustment... quit while your ahead.
Hahaha just talking about bags makes me understand where you are coming from. You actually need to watch the whole series.
@@motoiq I can't... is boring 😴 want too
Learning isnt for everyone.
Thank you 😊😎👍you are awesome man.