Unfortunately none of the people who were attacking the clip will watch this video because that's just how the internet works. Anyone who watches you already knows that you're empathetic and view things from the perspective of the patient, as someone who watches you semi frequently it was very easy to see the perspective you're coming from.
what clip is everyone talking about? i've tried looking for it on reddit and twitter but cant find it :/ can you send the link to it or just the name of the clip? thank you
Yeah, a lot of those comments were from Blue checks as well. The type of person who would PAY to use TWITTER of all websites are always saying the most outrageous stuff, because Twitter boosts it automatically for being a payed account.
There is no way anyone can seriously believe Dr. K was advocating that peoples whose lives are bad should check out. We are having a serious conversation, and Dr K is trying to help people who are down bad. He has done way more than any of the people who just say "go to therapy" as if thats a be all end all.
Yes he isn't saying that, he is clearing up misconceptions about why stuff happens/ people make these decisions... its incredibly dishonest and downright malicious to twist what he said like that
Honestly I'm not even sure everyone that does that actually does misunderstand. A lot of the time I think most of the people are instead dishonest. Some people value drama more than truth.
The worst part - Dr. K wasted 20 minutes explaining himself to people who already understand what he meant. And it won't even reach those twitter trolls.
I'm not suicidal, but am 33, friendless, and an alcoholic, so I'm experiencing the "slow suicide" Dr K described, but I'm going to overcome it and try to help someone one day. Good luck to anyone else that's going through it and let's all get better.
Exactly same boat as you. Alcoholic, 33. And a west coast kid, lol. Can I ask what began your drinking? For me, some traumatic shit altered my personality and turned me into a sheltered introvert. Not being able to enjoy the company of others compelled me to drink. Until ironacally it made me lose touch with everyone and isolate in the long run. You?
@@phillystevesteak6982I'm with both of y'all. Friendless, drink all the time. Smoke. Never leave the house really. Tried to make changes unsuccessfully. Was suicidal over a decade ago. Lost many of the friends I did have to it. So I don't know anymore 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
@@phillystevesteak6982 Long story short, I had a traumatic experience involving law enforcement which led me to shut down completely and isolate myself from the shame of it. I turned to drinking and it quickly turned from using it mainly for social reasons, into using it as a coping mechanism from the isolation and shame. I don't really enjoy the buzz from alcohol anymore as I just get lethargic, but it's such an ingrained default in my brain whenever I have free time now.
Fellow 33. Only have 4 really close friends. I’ve been diagnosed with depression, and I am prone to bouts of loneliness, especially when surrounded by people (weird, I know). Lost two friends because of my behavior from depression. Very strong words and feelings came out. Reaching out has proved useless. One of them was very dear to me, too… Been going through the experience of “slow suicide” myself because of the guilt and regret of it all… Not alcoholic nor do I do any drugs at all, but I play video games a little too much now.
This is a "I like waffles/oh so you hate pancakes" situation... But I'm glad Dr K took the time to respond, I just hope any of these people see it and care at all to listen
When I was suicidal, I was drawn to it precisely because my life was awful. I did not need a great deal of internal work (though I did need to grieve). Instead, I needed to have a different set of experiences in the world. I know that Dr K advocates meditation and so on, and I agree that his ideas are great, but when someone is deep in the shit, Dr K's ideas are going to fall flat. The best analogy I can come up with is a child living with in physically abusive home. Before any healing can happen, the child needs to be removed from that home. Telling that child to meditate after every beating is not going to work. Sadly, for many of us, the world itself is toxic and abusive. Bering rejected, being an outcast, etc. is a form of trauma and in order to heal, one simply must stop being traumatized. Even more sadly, the world is not interested in helping men in this area of life. In fact, the world does not even see the problem as I have just described it.
I'd say your child abuse analogy isn't accurate tbh. For 1 Dr. K recommends a lot more than just meditation, meditation is just 1 aspect of it all. Going back to your abuse analogy what Dr. K recommends is more akin to the child find some place that's a refuge from the abuse, metaphorically speaking that's like going to a friend's house where their family makes your day more bearable. In reality it's insanely hard and destabilizing to change all your environmental factors all at once. You change it piece by piece, little by little.
I find it interesting that your interpretation of what he's trying to say or advocate for is just meditation and internal work. For one, in this very video he recognizes that for someone mentally healthy to consider suicide, their life circumstances must just be that bad. That's a straight up recognition of the fact your environment can be that bad. Secondly, your comment seems to assume that meditation is the only thing he would ask you to do. It isn't, and he's demonstrated that time and again. Improving your perspective on yourself and doing work on yourself, and trying to improve your external circumstances by getting out of a bad environment, are not mutually exclusive. In fact, sometimes the thing preventing someone from even recognizing that their environment is the cause, or that they have a way out of their external circumstances, is something internal. If the only thing you have control over is yourself, then that's where you have to start. Lastly, I'm not sure why you assume his approach will fall flat. Based on what information, your opinion? He has data to prove that he's helped the overwhelming majority of his patients. He's talked about previous patients before, and although it was very vague due to patient confidentiality, there have definitely been cases he's talked about that are just as bad as your example. He recognises he can't help everyone and has not been able to, even in this vdeo, but that doesn't change the fact he helps an overwhelming majority of those he works with. He knows he can help them because he already has.
Hm... after posting my comment, though, I suddenly realized I might just be accidentally invalidating your experience as well. I still think that it's strange that you think he wouldn't be able to help, but I have to recognize that whatever went on or is going on in your life must be pretty bad to make that assertion. Sorry for immediately trying to get adversarial about your opinion. I don't know the circumstances, but I do hope that whatever needs to happen in your life for it to improve happens.
He doesn't advocate merely meditating in that circumstance. I think you've missed the point. He's saying that perfectly mentally healthy people (ie no mental illness) are driven to suicide because their life sucks that much. He's addressed basically every point you've said.
Telling a patient with a legitimately horrific life that it's all in their head and they just need to fix their mind isn't just extremely bad therapy it's outright psychological abuse gaslighting a patient into blaming themselves for things beyond their control any professional that engages in this should be fired immediately!!!! These struggling people need the comfort and safety of having their thoughts and feelings validated as a legitimate reaction to circumstances beyond their control while simultaneously receiving hope that that legitimately shitty life can and will improve! They don't just need mental health help they need community support to address the legitimate challenges in their life that are making them feel like suicide is the only option things like abuse, poverty, homelessness, addiction and so many other factors! I think the attitude you've received as a reaction to what you said this is the entire reason the male suicide rate is so high people refuse to stop victim blame men and acknowledge that a lot of men end up in situations that are legitimately unfair through no fault of their own but society tells men their privileged and doesn't offer them any help leaving them feeling so hopeless that they turned to suicide. Being treated for depression when you're not actually depressed and your life just sucks can do way more harm than good people start to think they have to control their thoughts and feelings and behavior and feel even worse about themselves when they can't causing a deeper spiral when the truth is if their physical life around them could be improved their suffering would be relieved but first we need a society that gives a shit about men and that's not happening anytime soon!
This is also true as it applies to men’s dating struggles. We’re constantly told to improve and become better men, we’re told to reflect on what we did wrong when women hurt our feelings or behave poorly towards us. As if everything is our fault. But when women complain about the dating market, suddenly it becomes “Men are pigs! You shouldn’t have to change anything about yourself for them.” The social zeitgeist is structured in a way that implies women are literally superior to us, for the reason I’ve stated and numerous others Maybe the LGBTQIA+ crowd is onto something
He's talking about the cases where their life is objectively ok, he always specifies that some people's lives are truly hard and that's the reason those people choose suicide, that's the reason people misunderstood him. He also speaks about how we have the power to change the situation.
When life "just" sucks... from what I have learned in recent years, it seems to me that "life sucks" is the main reason behind most depressions. Overwork, disconnect from nature, loneliness, toxic food, lack of physical activity - lots of people are doing "objectively" ok, meaning, their jobs sustain them and they have a somewhat decent home to live in. But we have reshaped human lives in ways that seem to make a lot of us feel like we're close to dying all the time, even when we are not plaged with physical hardship or disease. Make one or two wrong decisions in life, and you're fucked forever. Those don't even have to be, on the surface, catastrophic decisions. Like moving to a new town for a job... but only after a few years you realize you are not the person who tends to make new friends easily. Had I known what I know about myself now, I would definitely have chosen a more physical job, and not left my home town.
@@Volkbrechtthis is it. We have no security, not economic, not emotional, not social, everything can be taken from us by just a bad choice or an accident, nowadays.
I used to have a job that was soul-crushing. And then they had me doing the work of 3 people at once, with time pressure as trucks were coming in and needed to be loaded (by me) and orders needed to be put together (by me) and the trucks were piling up. I straight up broke down, I hid in the bathroom to cry. Went back out and there were 2 more trucks.. just piling up. I wanted to kill myself, just didn't know how. By the end of that day, I knew how.. not gonna risk my account by telling the details. 2 days later, I got really close, so damn close, adrenaline rushing through my veins and... I quit. No plan, barely any money to hold me over. But I'm alive today, there really was a strong chance that I wouldn't be here today. So today I live with my parents again, feeling like absolute dogshit, never had a girlfriend at 28 years old, had a traumatic childhood both home and at school. Wow, writing this out is really putting things into perspective. My life sucks and have little to zero prospect of getting better..
You're only 28... Plenty of time. I'm 38 and while I have no gf for 10 years now, I also live with my parents, but I have an excellent job, making good money, and things are looking somewhat good... So... don't lose hope. Also, us men have a longer biological clock, you can be desired well into your 50s if not more. Finding a quality relationship is not easy, but only needs to happen once (or a few times)... Ultimately, so what if we don't secure this, or that. Our consciousness is still here, a unique, unrepeatable witnessing of the world... I am enough, just as I am, even if completely alone. I need to let myself be. Become my best friend, or at least a good friend... No need for self-hate. I have 3 friends who are all in marriages and relationships and they're more miserable and stressed than me. Their children may abandon them in the future too, their marriages are on the verge of failure, and they may all still end up dying alone. I read a quote yesterday: "Remember, being happy doesn't mean you have it all. It simply means you're thankful for all you have." Life can always be much better, but it can be much worse too. The mind makes us blind to what we have.
Well as someone who was in the pit of despair, I can say that it can only go up from the bottom. I’m sorry you’re going through so much. Hopelessness is really a pit of hell. I hope you find some way of figuring out a glimmer. I got lucky and figured what I needed to feel hopeful again. I hope God gives you that glimmer like he did for me. I’ll be praying for you.
28 back at home too , the financial pressure our generation has is only comparable to 1929 depression era , with the cost of food being almost that proportionally high . But they got out of it and we can too . Keep on .
@@avisso5467Don't worry too much, I'm not actively suicidal anymore, just miserable. If anything the (rare) suicidal thoughts that I have today are thoughts that I observe, not internalize. Dr K taught me that my thoughts, my mind, is not me. I can observe the thoughts and let them pass. But thanks for the kind words.
The reason why this upsets some people is that every suicide that has nothing to do with a mental illnes, is an undeniable in-your-face truth that something with our society is wrong and that we have failed to help this person. And that's something we don't want to accept. That there ARE problems that we can not fix alone, and sometimes we ARE responsible for other humans wellbeing, and that there ARE consequences of our actions for other people.
Individuals cannot fix systematic problems,especially if the system tries its hardest to maintain this sick state of affairs,because it benefits a select few. On top of that,the same system gaslights everyone into believing that they are the problem,instead of the corrupt system. That's the biggest issue
@@fotisstergiou1165 Utter bullshit. There isn't any control beyond the directly personal-- if any change is to occur on a systemic level, it must occur through the decision of each individual-- and the actions of each individual, can be influenced by the actions of a single individual. The entire framework is a self-defeatist cope designed to justify not even trying.
No, I can easily imagine someone having a terrible life AND not being mentally ill AND society not being at fault. I can imagine for example a person with severe physical problems. You could have a perfectly structured society and certain disabilities would still be incredibly difficult to live with.
These people really have no clue how bad it gets. They say if you're in chronic pain that's a valid reason but completely forget that you can be in chronic emotional pain. Not because you're mentally ill but because you were taught to hate yourself
It's good and vital to remember that suicidal people don't need to be told they are wrong which only adds to the alienation and loneliness regarding their situation. Many kill themselves before bothering the people around them. It's far better to realize and admit that it's far from strange to at some point in your life to reasonably feel that it's not worth having. Of course for some the coping mechanism is avoiding the thoughts altogether so they'll be angry if others don't support their necessary self-deception, but most need understanding and connection. Platitudes like all lives is worth living is not taking any aspect if the conversation seriously.
yep you need to take someones mental state they experiment serious to connect to them and make them feel safe, trusted valid enough to, open up. Hell even if you want to talk someone out of something, not rediculing their state of mind, is the first thing to do and consider what they might experience. Hell even with it gets better, feels empty, through its usually right that it gets rough but better dealing with it, but it feels unatainable and even that isnt that good advice. So yes considering and taking someones state of mind and there they probably are serious is the first step. Without being patronizing, or not trying to sound patrinizing but treat them as people with agency. Or at least talk like that.
There is one therapist (DR.K) who unlike most isn't dismissing people's individual experiences and people attack him. I literally stopped asking for help from therapists because they would try to tell me what I should and shouldn't feel and what I should be doing through their own lens and experience and life situation instead of mine. They kept misdiagnosing me because they never actually listened
Where is that? From where I am from any therapist worth their asses make most of the session about listening and making you come up to the best conclusion you can. I know that is just one MO for therapy and there are several schools of psychology with different practices. It still feels weird what you described.
@@TheSilverwolf97 this experience is more common than you think. I've heard from many and experienced it myself. Therapy is great once you find the right person for you though, but more often than not it can take multiple tries.
+1 been to two different therapists and both did this to one degree or another. They listened, but there was not much prompting me to analyze what I’d said. It was all jumping to conclusions and then projecting onto me.
@@alexsfcmy first two therapists were absolutely useless. My third helped me understand my diagnosis of ADHD and being on spectrum. Just like people therapists aren't all good lol. To be fair maybe it was a me problem and we just weren't compatible.
In high school, a guy who was always upbeat, funny, empathetic, and well-liked killed himself, and we didn't understand it. He was the last person we thought would take his life, and he left no clues to explain his decision. He didn't appear mentally ill, and we assumed he must have been hiding depression under a happy mask for a long time. You explained in a few of your episodes that people with ADHD are at higher risk for suicide because they act on impulse when something really painful happens, and I realized that was quite probably what happened to my friend. I don't know if someone broke his heart or a parent disowned him, but I think one day something bad happened and he followed an impulse to kill himself. You are saving lives by letting us know that anybody can kill themselves at any time without a mental illness, and we should always be taking care of each other! Mental health is not the mere absence of mental illness, and it's not something anyone can create for themselves independently. We all need someone who we know will pick up the phone for us at 2 AM.
I am a class clown, one insight I can give is that guy who upbeat, funny, empathetic, and well-liked, for him(might be) or for me is that there to no other option for acceptance other than being upbeat, funny, empathetic, and well-liked. you feel like a jester in a circus. people cheer you for the show and the n everyone forgets you in your harrowing horrors. empathetic I constantly feel I need to be empathetic as in listening to others and caring cause I was told when in childhood my school teachers and my mom told me I am selfish, for not listening to teachers, not doing homework and just doing what you think. upbeat Sadness , depression, showing pain, etc was so shunned growing up, especially to relatives or to strangers. My mom would beat me up in morning but if I step outside I had to somehow learn to not be sad and show pain as people gossip and in general don't like to hang with Sad Nancy. well-liked people-pleasing , growing up if your own mom wished you were not born as you are and school teachers seeing you as a lost cause and then your class mates see you the same way. you wonder your place in the world and you do everything to be liked even if it at expense of self. funny Hey , I am getting kicked out of classroom, but hey let me do a silly walk. seeing teacher get annoyed but entire class laughing, makes you feel worth. You might be hopeless case academically as a kid in general, but you alteast got validation and also made others laugh. Cause at home especially , you are getting beaten up in name of discipline. I felt good and still do making others laugh , but I at bed all, alone I stare at the ceiling depressed alone and abandoned. At the idk what your friend went through, but most likely he felt abandoned and felt no one cares for him and he is mere performer in the show for pennies of validation to soothe low self esteem.
Obviously, I am not sure how long ago this was, but drugs like Ritalin (that were popular when I was in school) also contribute to that. There was a study that found that children on Ritilin (an ADHD medication) were more likely to commit suicide. I had a brother they put on different meds for ADHD and he saw bugs crawling all over his body. The stuff we put into our bodies...
Well people shouldn´t allow artificial intelligence to be the thing.... because young men will not get jobs that they work hard for, with their talent and originality, which may lead to low selfesteem, even though they are very talented and supported by family... they would rather hire AI for free, it´s annoying...than a talented person. Sam Vaknin says AI is very narcissistic, because it steals jobs, it pretends empathy, the science shows the AI several times passed the "empathy test", but its a scam, AI has no empathy, except the pretended empathy... it steals information of other people, it steals their hard work.... it also spreads misinformation and fake data.. It wouldn´t be surprising if people would argue, in the algorithm on social media about some misinformation, spread by AI....which creates a hate groups and less productivity. or if AI would create fake info or a "Viral virus" about some topic....to distract people from a real problems.
@dumfriesspearhead7398 the assumption that suicide is caused purely by mental illness is essentially a polite version of what OPs characterization of their belief is
☆The opposite of depression is self-expression☆ So when a person isn't depressed, the person is self-expressing his/her light soul - when the person goes in a depression it's when the person isn't expressing him/herself. We all need to start to be kinder to each other and embrace happiness, peace and kindness. It’s judgement, abuse and negativity that leads people in to depression. We can get people out of depression by being kind and encouraging their interests (the person might find purpose&happiness in taking care of an animal or being in the nature or painting, writing, singing, dancing etc) so talk to depressed people and ask what their heart desires♡
Love this man. On track to become a therapist. I've noticed I'm the only male in my 25 person Advanced Techniques of Counseling and Psychotherapy class. Luckily, I got a great professor (and judging by my university stint so far, they are in rare supply!). I look up quite a bit to Carl Rogers, and really enjoyed your continued emphasis on "meet them where they are" - the core of Yield theory. Keep it up man, I've been devouring your content for about 2-3 weeks now since I discovered it!
I had a close friend who does the "slow suicide" right now. He's drinking, partying, smoking dope, and he plans to die by age 45. And I'm not quite sure how to help him. But what I'm pretty sure of is that telling him "you have so much to live for" will absolutely not work. And listening to Dr. K helped me get at least 2 other friends out of really bad headspaces, when they were spiraling. So from personal experience, I'm giving the W to Dr. K.
It is not possible to help someone who does not seek help. The only thing you can do is be a friend. Not a special, caring friend. Just be around, maybe occasionally ask how he is doing and actively listen to the response. Share the fun when there is some to be shared, and offer the kind of assistance people generally need. You know, moving furniture, helping with DIY stuff. And by the way: I would not pay too much attention to plans like "dying by 45". It's not super difficult to commit suicide. Anyone who puts it off for years is basically saying that there are still things in life they enjoy, that they don't want to miss out on.
@@Volkbrecht Or they are just scared, I know plenty suicidal folks who are just scared, if they were not scared of dying they'd have done it already off the jump instead of doing a different form. Slow death is still death it is just less obvious, less traumatising to do than other direct to the point forms.
@@VolkbrechtI half agree and half disagree. bc someone like that could accidentally or purposefully overdose or get alcohol poisoning. I’ve never heard it called “slow suicide” before though. I could agree they still want to live. I think everybody (99.9999999%) still wants to live. It’s just they are struggling badly and can’t cope with the situation they are in. This is a bit of a ramble as I did include an anecdote but decided to take it out. But just because they aren’t actively planning to hurt themselves doesn’t mean you should have 0 concern. One day something might snap in them. But hopefully they reach a point to seek help before they do.
Talk to them & connect on a personal level. Dig their true expressions out. These people are hiding something truly painful and are afraid to explore it, all the partying drinking is a coping mechanism to not feel their pain. Shame is a real killer.
I'm a paychofan of Dr K and since two years reraly a day go by when I don't watch his staff. Sometimes I nitpick and criticize little things that has not been said perfectly in my opinion. I feel like such a fool right now. He does a tremendous work. It's blowing my mind the lenghts he goes to get through to every person and hear out everyone. He is truly enlightened.
Socioeconomic status! I desperately wish that more therapists and psychiatrists would take individual's socioeconomic status into account when diagnosing and creating treatment plans. You can't solve mental health problems without understanding them in the greater context of patients' lives. Thank you for being one who does, Dr. K.
@@ghevisartor6005That's not what I was saying at all. People who are rich, physically attractive, and have healthy social lives absolutely need help for depression. Even people with seemingly perfect lives can have chemical imbalances. I'm only saying that if mental healthcare isn't holistic enough to account for socioeconomic status, it's destined to fail at least in some way for almost everyone else.
this besides the absolute stranglehold leftist/liberal politics have on therapists to the point they just flatly pathologize anything vaguely centrist/right of center
And if all that they tell you is: "its your own fault, you have to acknowledge it, or we cant continue the progress." So either you become societys humility-piss-rug or you become a problem. Id rather become a problem then.
It took me way too long to find one that would actually help me. If you're looking for a therapist, please see someone that does cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt). It literally changed my life.
Dr K is completely right about meeting with empathy; from an in and out psyche patient? The ones who helped me the most met me halfway and helped me find my way out of the dark tunnel together. On the flipside? After 16 years of self work and improvement and reaching a point where id accepted that so many things in my life I blamed myself for werent my fault, my newest therapist listened to me for months, only to tell me finally that he doesnt believe i had any of the (diagnosed by multiple professionals and panels) mental disorders I thought and maybe I was just a bad person who did the things to myself through my choices. (Some of them? Yes of course, however most of them? Theyre from actual chemical issues and mental issues I didnt have under control due to lack of diagnosis) Shit ruined my world and self perception, even now i struggle horribly with guilt and self loathing due to it. Thankfully it has gotten much better but its still there.
Great video, Dr. K! I love the bit near the end about why we need to become more aware of our thoughts and patterns and how our lack of knowledge about ourselves prevents us from having skills to fix our lives. Very well spoken. I would love to see you do a video about attachment styles, attachment trauma, and subconscious programming (unless you've already done it) *goes to check for it*
The issue I find is that so many people have had a privileged life without realising it, often because of random chance. Supportive family. Good school. Good friends who’ve they kept into adulthood. Sexual partners without particular effort. A decent career. A home. These people literally cannot understand what it’s like to be healthy but have literally no reason to keep going, because you had none of the things they took for granted. Because you were neglected and never had friends or relationships or any evidence of self worth. This is why so many men are killing themselves. They’ve had to struggle for everything they have and one day they’re 40 and suicide is a less painful proposition than 40 more years of struggle. It’s not mental illness. It’s a logical deduction.
I have a friend that pretty much everything he has ever done has come easy to him. I can't talk to him about struggles I have most of the time because he genuinely can't fathom or understand them to any degree.
Been thinking all day about how there is no point in therapy for me because my experiences keep being denied and I keep being told I’m wrong or not understanding the life I have lived. Honestly this gives me a bit of hope, I had a horrific child hood and teenage years. I’m going to try a little longer.
for me the whole thing is "can talking to a therapist make my situation change such that i will have income to move out and meet a wife to have kids with? No? Then i'll save my money, thanks"
@@evan12697 I know exactly what you mean, I’m only getting therapy and psychiatric help now that I have money to afford it. I won’t hold my breath on finding love or having any family though, I just don’t see myself ever having or being what I’m supposed to for someone to want me. Also, why are we subscribed to the exact same people, that’s wild.
@@jlllx Well,that life-changing experience requires a lot of cash,that most people don;t have to spare. How can a minimum wage worker ''change his life'' when he cannot afford a therapist in the first place?
I'm a survivor. Dr K is 100% correct. If you don't have a clear path, it's because you haven't found the right help yet. The victory of looking back and seeing that you overcame yourself is priceless! You are unique, for some reason, there is no one like you in the world. Do not give up!
☆The opposite of depression is self-expression☆ So when a person isn't depressed, the person is self-expressing his/her light soul - when the person goes in a depression it's when the person isn't expressing him/herself. We all need to start to be kinder to each other and embrace happiness, peace and kindness. It’s judgement, abuse and negativity that leads people in to depression. We can get people out of depression by being kind and encouraging their interests (the person might find purpose&happiness in taking care of an animal or being in the nature or painting, writing, singing, dancing etc) so talk to depressed people and ask what their heart desires♡
Also i don't see how anyone could misunderstand the clip UNLESS they have never felt suicidal or hopeless.. I don't feel like my life is worth living right now, and there is nothing worse then a family member going "Oh but there is so much to live for, there is so many things! Why do you feel sad?" or the worse one "well there are other people who are also unable to work, they might be physically handicapped and strapped to a chair but they aren't going to let the depression take them down, you shouldn't either". I have friends, family, a partner, a nice home with nice thing, money is not an issue even though *i* cant work, I'm very creative and some say I'm very intelligent too. I am a female with late diagnosed Autism, i have a shit ton of Trauma in my childhood, neglect and sexual trauma too. I was always the fun, quirky and shy girl, everyone liked me, but i had no real friends, my teenage years where a mess, lots of failed relationships, no real boundaries, even more sexual trauma, I'm lucky i said no to drugs... Growing up with a mom who still to this day, ramble on how hard it is to be a single mother, how she couldn't live a full life because she had me to take care off, how she was bound to raise me and work while everyone else had husbands that could at least help with the load, going on holidays, or having family that could just once in a while take over.. I felt like a burden, and still do. My bag of traumas, is my most prominent issue, the seems are tearing and i get very uncomfortable "flashbacks" whenever i am reminded, triggered and i don't know what the triggers are. I cant work, i couldn't finish an education, I'm on financial aid, i am the "bottom" of witch the politicians talk about, the gross inhuman people leaching on the system.. I don't want to be here, i want to work, i tried to work, but it will kill me. I am home, alone, all day, until my partner comes home.. Some days he also just needs to unplug and just play games alone or with friends, sometimes i join in, other times i sit, alone, by myself, playing whatever, or staring at the wall.. People who have not sat in my situation will never understand why my will to live is none, they will never understand the constant struggle, the fight to keep going. They look at me and tell me to make the most of it. How everyone would love to not have to work, to just sit at home, watching Netflix or going for a walk in nature - they don't understand that after 10 years, it gets really boring.. Its not fun, or nice, or refreshing.. because i don't work i also cant afford many things, i am a 100% depending on my partner to pay everything out of the ordinary.. I don't even pay half the rent because then i wouldn't have ANY money left for clothes, or a coffee with my mom or whatever i spend it on.. I'm working on finding my reason, but it is not easy, and people who never walked in my shoes will never understand why my life, to me, has not been worth living.
I relate to a lot of what you said, but some parts I can only imagine. Having been through my own kind of hell, I have gained a grasp and appreciation of the strength and courage that lies within people faced with insurmountable struggles. Maybe my view is unrealistic, but I truly believe that it is those who still stand after being beaten and broken, that are so much stronger and larger than they self can see. I hope you can agree that noone, even oneself should blame us for the ways we struggle. We deserve love for the ways we can cope, because just to live is a selfless act. Thank you for sharing your words, and I hope mine can be of any help. Wish you all the best and I truly believe in you whoever you may be
☆The opposite of depression is self-expression☆ So when a person isn't depressed, the person is self-expressing his/her light soul - when the person goes in a depression it's when the person isn't expressing him/herself. We all need to start to be kinder to each other and embrace happiness, peace and kindness. It’s judgement, abuse and negativity that leads people in to depression. We can get people out of depression by being kind and encouraging their interests (the person might find purpose&happiness in taking care of an animal or being in the nature or painting, writing, singing, dancing etc) so talk to depressed people and ask what their heart desires♡
@@Madchris8828Yep, the algorithm framework for social media is built that way, users really need to understand that in its entirety for their wellbeing.
Great response! Being depressed =\= having depression. It’s unhelpful to pathologize responses to difficult life circumstances. We should lift each other up through the hard times instead.
As a woman and neurobiologist, I find this content amazing. I have some male friends who are able to express their emotions critically and clearly so that I'm able to understand what they're going through, and what they think their friends are going through. But they're not many, they grew up in an exceptionally positive environment, as I did, so essentially I can only get one perspective which definitely doesn't apply to the majority of the male (and female) population. Being able to listen to a psychiatrist with this much experience and this much talent in communication is truly great, I want to get better at understanding the situations, the nuances and different perspectives of how men are living right now, because it majorly affects us women too! We definitely have different problems, but we clearly can't fix them by ourselves, we have to try to meet halfway somehow. So, thank you dr. K, these conversations help everyone a lot 😊
Imagine knowing somebody who lives in a household that has abusive people. This person gets bullied, beaten up, explored and manipulated. And then this person comes up to you, opens up and starts crying, and the only thing you say is: "Just go do therapy!" How do you think that person's gonna feel? Have we come so far in being indifferent to eachother that when we see people whose lives are broken and we just outsource them to professionals instead of providing help? That's my two cents on this convo, thanks Dr K for providing an entire group of people a voice of empathy
But the people that person may go to may not have the emotional or even physical resources to assist and might be putting their own mental health and lives in danger.
Excellent lecture. I'll definitely need to do a re-watch. Also, Dr. K's exasperation at the guru comment had me feeling sympathetic frustration. I imagine he was thinking "You've got to be kidding me, has anyone been listening to me this entire time?!?!"
Hello, thank you for talking about this. As someone who survived the worst of depression but is still getting everything in order. I feel verry thank full that you spread awareness. Because right now peaple just don't understand how devastating it can be to struggle with life. I agree that taking your life is bad but sometimes it is not what that person needs to hear. In stead that person longs for someone who tells them it is bad right now but it wil get better. And if more non doctors,helpers,... know what it is it might make a difference. I do think you can explain the objective bad life stuff with a river. some peaple consently fight against the current and get varry tired along the way so they start to give up. So they need someone to throw a rope to rest on that rope for a bit.
@@anuk1311He really dances around making an actual critique of capital, he comes so close over and over but shifts the focus to "economic decay" or "uncertain times" without pointing out that those things are inherent to the system.
I am at a point in my life I arrived at the logical and rational conclusion that the best course of action is suicide. But my survival instinct is still too strong, so I don’t act. So my next thought is that I should at least use drugs since I am gonna stay alive for a while. But I know it’s just a slower form of suicide, so I don’t pursue it - but I am sure I would be weak if the temptation was beside me. I am not sure how long my survival instinct will stay stronger than my own reasoning and logic.
It can be really frustrating and just proves no one wants to listen to young men when the internet is getting upset over this even though I saw tons of men saying this felt like their experience. This is real empathy and understanding from others perspective from Dr K
Yup, men who feel like they don’t have agency having their suspicions confirmed by being told it HAS to be a mental illness out of their control. It’s very painful to see.
The exception that proves the rule. He is literally getting flack and retaliation, accused of misogyny online for bringing it up . We replaced international men's day with world toilet day!! You can't say anything to help men with this backlash.
@@DeadCat-42 I think we should be able to talk about men without comparing them to women, it's true there's a lot of misogyny in the world but helping men being more healthy mentally will help everyone. One argument doesn't invalidate the other in my opinion
My life isn't even that bad but I wake up every day wishing I hadn't. Appreciate you and others like Dr. Scott Eilers for uploading free help to RUclips. You're absolutely saving lives.
Im a woman whos been dealing with alot of mental health issues my whole life. I definitely feel that depression and mental illness within male community is something to be talked about. I also think it has a close correlation to crimes committed by males. We often think it's a gender issue where male is more likely to more violent but I think theres more to this than just being a man. Isolation and lonliness lead to antisocial behaviors and tendencies. Its a societal issue.
Im a man who is more of a pacifist than violent. But i feel deeply isolated and lonely, that every week i experience thoughts of wanting to end it so to not suffer
That interview helped me alot I thank you for it Dr.K I been struggling with existence for my entire life and started taking steps to understand myself
The guy in that video, destiny, sounds like he's never dealt with depression or had a single difficult day in his life. The disbelief he has that external influences and life circumstance can lead to suicide is unbelievable. And he sounds arrogant about it too.
Exactly. He also goes on to talk about how privileged he was, it just illustrates how blind he is to see the economic reality of actually trying to fix yourself. All the while charging exorbitant fees for his own services. Apparently all you're good for in his eyes is a paycheck😂
You're spot on, Dr. K. I've been a DBT therapist for over 26 years now. We deal with suicidality and work reciprocally toward Life Worth Living goals while learning skills in mindfulness, emotion regulation, distress tolerance, and relationship skills that aim toward a Life Worth Living. Thanks for promoting effective compassion.
I know that you usually provide links to the papers mentioned, but actually going through and showcasing the source material in this video was actually really helpful. I feel like there is normally a barrier to going through and skimming each paper separately and this style actually made me want to read them even more.
55:00 dispairing in life without depression. That's me. I've filled in a comprehensive test a few weeks ago and it said I am not depressed. Scored high on distress, negative thoughts and anxiety. Not depression. I have bouts of 2-3 hours 2-3 times a week when I don't feel like living anymore. And the rest of the time I don't feel that at all. For me the dispair comes from not getting the help I need. I am 35F, very probably autistic and due to life circumstances it wasn't noticed before. I've been messing around a lot these past 12 years with different educations and jobs hopping from one to the other. I still have to finish my education, which is starting to get a tight deadline, however I am completely stuck on my thesis, my job and my personal life. (Having a paid 'vacation' right now from the boss.) And if I don't finish that thesis I'll be stuck with a huge debt and no education. The waiting lists for starting ASD specific help are 7-9 months. Of course I get desperate and feel dispair! It's not that I haven't sought help before and got it. It just never was ASD specific and didn't really help as much as expected. Which is not weird if you're stuck on all kinds of typical daily things and feel overwhelmed a lot in a way other people around your age do not experience. It's difficult to feel good about yourself and basic life skills are still difficult and give a you stress and anxiety. It doesn't help that I have a difficult youth as well, because that's what professionals will focus on automatically and pin all your problems on. I've had help for trauma. It improved some things. Many important things it did not improve.
These twitter virtue signallers don't actually wanna help anyone, they just criticize someone who does and pat themselves on their backs to "appear" empathetic and moralistic. When I in the depths of my depression, these types of "positivity" freaks would be the exact people I'd avoid cuz quotes don't fix your life.
EXACTLY. These people don't truly care about anyone nor have they spent a second of their fking lives trying to do so. And i 100% agree with you. When I was totally depressed, this type of positive assertion is the WORST thing to hear. "I hate my life because it sucks". "No, you're wrong. It doesn't suck. Stop hating it". Completely useless and in fact, it left in a much worse position after. I would feel so shitty that I exposed myself and the person wouldn't even listen to me.
Dr.K you’ve helped me so much. I’ve become a completely different person . I’ve been studying your content and other sources for a year. I can now see what I need to improve and the progress I still need to make within myself and my life itself. Thank you so much. I hope this doesn’t sound burdensome but you are my role model. I believe your message will continue to grow like a snowball and make positive impact for the whole world going forward, continuing to grow in the future, by the people you’ve helped and educated. Thank you.
Thank you for seeing us Dr.K. SLS is a real thing. Sometimes we are dealt very bad cards in life. Doesn't mean there is no hope, it just means the diagnosis has to be correct for the therapists to help us.
I'm a woman but I've just got an insight that I was raised in a family where women played the role of men as men were generally considered to be weak or incapable and therefore not necessary as part of the family. So I faced the same problems that Dr.K discribes for men - being unable to ask for help, unaware of my emotions, feeling like a loser because of the unablity to stay strong and independent and reach "success". I had a period of deep depression with suicidal thoughts and can fully relate to the despair of not being able to socially belong and feeling alone. The interesting thing is that now as I am in touch with my emotions (and even got education as an actress) I feel like I also require instrumental support to fix my life.
Same here in terms of sucidal thoughts and being in touch with feelings. Just except I'm a man but was raised in a totally dysfunctional family with cheating father jealous big brother who emotionally abused me, and my father having cancer for 2-3 years and then dying at my 21s, so basically I've had to support from emotionally to financially myself during my college years, and I lived far from the city, because it was the cheapest thing I could rent. So, I was literally alone, with my feelings, in the middle of nowhere. The only thing I've had around was sea at 50m in front and a forest at the back not even many neighbors except 1 and only. I've have had also multiple times suicidality due to my sht-life-syndrome, but also learned how to bend those emotions and meditated and got in touch with them and accepted them. I know I'm suicidal and always feel lonely, but I also know that I've been able to support this situation at least until now and I hope I can just keep going and be in touch with my emotions. Like, I can't just "prevent my brain" from thinking "eh this life is worthless and too painful why even live". It's just how my brain makes me think and my logical self tries to nurture and bend these emotions due to education I'm always seeking and try to have education by like watching ... Dr K's videos who have taught me a ton lot. Or read papers and such. It helped me more than any direct therapist would give me. And I know this because I've tried therapy. Psychotherapy has just so many bad fruits in it that just judge you and dismiss your feelings and tell you to "just read a book" when what I want is a f'ing hug not another self-help/improvement/literature book or tell you how you should feel instead of acknowledging you.
@@exapsy Please keep going! I know how painful it is to deal with deep loneliness when it seems like you are completely by yourself and there's nowhere to go for help. I'm happy that despite all that you are here and continue fighting for yourself. I'm sending you hugs (though I know it can't be compaired with real ones).
Well you discovered how many men feel, which I am one of them. I don't know how my life will end but I am 50% alive 50% dead mentally. I have enough chances and reasons to not live for. Im too tired of feeling lonely and existing obliged just to work.
@@YukiNakamura I'm very sorry to hear that. That sounds very tough to deal with. I'd like to support you, if that's what you would like. Or if you just wanted to share you experience and let it all out without expecting a response, that's ok too.
I was so stoked to see you on the DOAC podcast. Sad that people are taking your clip out of context, misunderstood, misinterpreted, whatever like I said sad. I've been watching that and your channel for some time because I find them very helpful for my undergrad studies. I plan on becoming a clinical psychologist, I want to specialise in addiction. Your book is fantastic, I'm only three chapters in and I'm already blown away, it's up there with realm of hungry ghosts. Glad to see you're back at it already dropping the knowledge for all the wonderful people that follow your channel and even for the ingrates that don't. When I saw Asmongold's reaction video I was pissed, the fact that people would assume the worst of such a good dude beggars belief.
I hate to say it but DOAC is kinda a part of the problem of clipping and over sensationalizing. Don't get me wrong, it's not a terrible podcast, the interviewer is good and they get an interesting mix of guests. But as a channel it absolutely does go for clickbait and even ragebait at times.
@@Hemlocker spot on -- I don't get it -- quality guests but clickbait garbage that distracts from the guest messages and the conversations' depth.. I just can't trust DOAC when it acts like a tabloid every chance it gets
Hi Dr K! I haven't had the time to watch this video yet, but I see some pretty fierce comments around here. I just wanted to let you know that you're doing an awesome job, and I appreciate you for taking the time to get into sensitive topics that some (clearly, a lot of people) aren't as comfortable discussing. You are a good man, and I hope you don't succumb to the idea of censoring your speech in any way in the future. Clear, concise, and HONEST. That's what I like about you. Stay you.
At fifteen i attempted suicide one night thinking i would never wake up again, i was so scared to be alone once i thought it was too late. Waking up the next morning, i was filled with so much self hate and relief at the same time. Honestly things only got worse once i was put in the hospital, that place was hell. I didn’t get any better until i met my now fiancée who’s changed my whole world. I don’t even know why I’m sharing this but telling my story even if i didn’t get better on my own, i hope it gives someone some hope that they can survive too. It really does get better, i told myself it never would but it really got better, i feel better than ever now and anyone reading this feeling like they can’t keep going can survive too. Only going up from here. I believe in yall.
Can we please get an emotional support Alok plush toy, preferably with real hair? It could say "how do you feel about that?", "can I think for a second?", "bazically". To think that Alok has had to respond to these critisms is a shame, he's such a wonderful person. A true hero of the internet
I really want that now. I doubt Dr. K will ever consider it though because of all the potential repercussions it could have, like being called greedy or people putting the plush in a jar
This would do great with the Shirt I am yet to print myself: "I don't believe in you because whatever the Fuck. I believe in you because of Physics" - Dr. K
When you feel like there’s nothing worth living for and people say that you are wrong, it somehow makes it even worse. It makes me feel even more broken because I just can’t see it at all
I loved this presentation, so, so, much. Thank you Dr K. It’s the best when others can feel and discuss such topics with the detail in which you have done. XO
31:53 I want to say thank you. As someone you has been through hell and spent most of my teenage years in hospitals and homes and has now completely changed my life around living such a happy and fulfilling life let me tell you: I’ve had over 10 therapists and the only ones who truly got through to me (I admit I was hard to get through to) were the ones who had this exact same approach. The first time I ever felt understood and felt like it was worth trying was when my therapist (as hard as it sounds) said: well in your situation I’d probably feel suicidal too, but I will never allow you and I will help you. You have to see: anything other than validation would have made me closed off again. At a point where you’re suicidal, you can reason as much as you want you will only make the patient even more miserable because they feel like: not even this professional understands me. Thank you a lot for this :)
@HealthyGamerGG I watched the part about needing peer supporters in the realm of suicidality. I’ve spent 22 years with depression and chronic (I.e., daily) suicidal ideation, and 12 of those years actively troubleshooting it. After everything I’ve studied and reasoned, reconceptualizing suicidal thoughts+impulses as ‘tools’ of the mind, rather than something I actually want, has turned the most torturous piece of myself into one of the most useful companions for troubleshooting everything else. I’m now looking for ways to make use of the knowledge and experience I’ve accumulated to perhaps show someone they’re not alone and that there is, in fact, a way through the miasma. The problem is that this is SUCH a heavy topic for most people, including for professionals, that I don’t know where someone like me can actually be of use…
I haven't even watched this yet.. I respect this channel and the creator of it. My son died from his mental health struggle.. In the last days\months of his life I somehow had to come to terms with the fact that this may happen. We all did what we could at the time. Which was obviously "not enough". The struggle is real.. Its not easy for anyone suffering on any side of suicide. While I am not advocating for suicide at all (I do hope that better sources of mental and spiritual healthcare become more readily available to us all and I hope that our society and cultures will change in ways that support the human endeavour with more grace and love)... I can't help but remember what my sweet spirited and beautiful daughter said to her dearly depared brother, my beautiful son, upon arriving at the place where he hung himself.. She said " brother, I am so proud of you. For taking full control of your existence ". . there is a strength and fearlessness that we do not understand. This is something I will contemplate for many years trying to grasp and understand.. .so now, after having this in my " watch later" playlist for quite some rime, unable to bring myself to watch it.. I will listen and hear with love, respect and from a heart of non judgement
I understand what he said in the video but for sometimes i feel like we are in too deep and there's nothing we can do to help it. Sometimes you just want that tireness and endless exhausting feeling to stop.
Thank you for your content, Dr.K! You're helping a lot more people than just those that visit your practice. All over the world. I'm one of those dudes that has a family, a carreer, decent quality of life... but I can't help but think if it's *my* life that I'm living. If I *want* to do this job (but can't quit because I depend on the income). If I really love my family, or I just got used to them. Gets rather depressing from time to time, I have the urge to just say "I've had enough, f*** everything", file the divorce papers and move somewhere quiet and live a peaceful life solo... but you give me a lot of food for thought, and perspective.
I'd like to propose the root cause for SLS, it's called SWS (shit world syndrome). The example about this guy creating all these excuses of why getting better is impossible, is just because he doesn't want to. For a long time I've tried my best finding my place in the world, and how I've felt about the theoretical life prospects is "it's just not for me". I guess it's another way of saying "I hate the world and would rather die than live in it". And there is actually a massive stigma for this kind of opinion. It's judged as edgy and immature, and if you think like that, there must be something wrong with you. But why? It's just my honest opinion. I feel like I'm being gaslit by people who want to avoid confronting the problem. I'm all for helping people to cope, but there's only so much you can do to trick yourself into loving life. If I've gone through the full course of professional help, sorted through all (or at least most) the potential biases and mental traps, I feel like I understand myself well, and still don't feel it, then where's the problem? If society has changed a lot and it has lead to increasing number of men not wanting to live anymore, maybe it's actually the world's fault and it's the world that needs to change.
This is exactly it. It's slightly touched on a few times in the video: bad economic conditions and the expectations of men fitting into an overall hyper-individualistic culture based around the myth of meritocracy. Humans have created an anti-human world via capitalism and are now confused as to why it's so miserable to live in. We're not built for this shit; we're social animals who literally need each other to thrive. In every instance, we do better through cooperation to meet our collective needs than we do competing with each other.
I am a man who has struggled with suicidal thoughts for over a decade despite seeking therapy and anti depressants while using self help books on emotional mastery. I have been diagnosed with a combination of autism, OCD, anxiety, depression, and ptsd. I'll spare you the details of my life. I just wanted to thank you for your efforts to help people like me.
I might be wrong, but I have this hint that people who attacked those statements, haven't experienced the thing Dr K was talking about. Because for me this was the most obvious thing about a sub group of suicidal people. In fact if you are in this group, hearing that yes, you are right, your life really sucks and I see how hard it is for you, is the best help one can get. Hearing people trying to prove to you that your life is worth living while you feel like you are in hell only makes you feel more hopeless because you simply cannot connect with this worth people see. Telling this person you believe them is liberating and gives you a point from which you can start getting better. Because yes, your life sucks. But you can fix it and I will help you with that.
I have had intrusive thoughts a couple of times now and fortunately fought them off. Was about to call ER but first messaged every person I thought I can simply talk to. I am blessed to have some people in life who help me to pick up myself and continue to move forward. I hope one day I can be the same for others in need. I appreciate your talks and they do provide a lot of food for thought, thank you for doing what you do.
My father attempted and successfully took his own life a decade later... my childhood was kinda wild. He could balance a football on top of his head. 😅 I thought it was a cool trick as a kid. I think of myself as a semi professional on the subject because I've wrestled that same snake, and it still hasn't managed to bite me yet. Stop hating yourself... Stop hating the decisions you've made, your depression will fade, Stop hating your future self, the anxiety and self sabotage will fade, do not envy your future self success and happiness, know he is happy and you will one day experience his happiness if you stop doing things to punish him, and stop hating your current self. And your loneliness will fade. Now I just gotta address the trauma that I've normalized (I'm just now realizing not everybody is raised by a fther with brain damage and severe psychological problems and thar we weren't all spanked on the face at 5 years old) but I will find a way through it. I don't have the choice to do what other are doing and screaming at the snake. Thank you, Doctor K, for your videos, they've taught me so much. I was really lacking in self-awareness and a sense of spirit within.
I feel like childhood trauma makes us feel alone, then we realize that our situation isn't as unique as we thought. It should be comforting, but it made me more angry. More people than just myself went through this? Fuck. I think one of the most powerful things Dr. K says (maybe not in this video, but in others) is: "You are now an adult and have the power to be the person you were meant to be." The power he talks about, I think, is the freedom to choose a new route. Therapy gave me new tools, ones my parents should have given me but didn't, and I'm a more genuine and functional person with the new tools.
@Darknight526 that's the thing with suicide... that's kinda a weird thing to say. He wanted to not exist here any more, and got what he made happen... he wanted control, and to not feel powerless in this world, he chose to rebel against the universes desire for him to exist. The condolences should go to my mother, my sister, and every person that they or I have interacted with since, since none of those people have gotten to experience our full selves since. Three bright beacons of personality, one drank herself to death, one works from home and won't leave her room.... and me.... I've lost everything, cant keep a job, I'll be homeless next week.... but I'm gonna figure it out. And I'm not gonna quit.... suicide is different because I'm not crying for him, I'm crying for myself, I'm not angry at god because he won't be able to experience my children's lives I'm angry at him because he chose not to. I can't say I didn't make it in spite of him. He had a second chance, and chose to upgrade from .22 to .44. The hurt and grief he caused has magnified so much.... my sister isn't the mother she could be, my mom leaves behind three more children who now suffer too. All he had to do was exist... if my take is a little harsh, I'm glad. Anybody who's dealing with ideation. Should know the dark side of it.. you cannot end "yourself" you continue to exist on, in people's minds and actions, you just lost your share of control.
2:06:02 I don't think the problem is that we need more suicidal people to use their experience to talk people out of depression. There's a lot of people already doing that already. The thing we really need is people, like the people in the video on Twitter, who know nothing about suicide and depression to shut the fuck up and get out of the way so people who actually know what they're doing can actually help these people. I think a lot of depressed people could do an amazing job of helping people, but they're scared to lend their knowledge because they constantly get the idea from these Twitter mental health warriors that every single thing a depressed person can do to another depressed person would make them more suicidal. Ironically, the people who say this stuff are usually cited more as reasons people want to kill themselves than other depressed people.
20min into the vid. Im speaking from a man who has 3 kids, works 7 days a week, has 2 days off a year. I'm on the verge of letting go of life & having peace. I agree 💯 with what you're saying.. Seeing no future & only seeing the same struggles & pain makes you think why! What's the point of life, to struggle, to survive day to day, to work until you can't, then die? When this is what you see as a future, letting go sounds so good. I personally look forward to something. the day i don't have to think or feel, the day I'm erased😊
Holy shit man, working 7 days a week and being a father is huge! I don't think I could do that. Good on you for putting that kind of effort in, that's strength! I hope I can pull that off if my kids ever need that
Im showing support for this because its such an important subject many people dont talk about in a way that makes sense to everuone. Its changed youtube algorithm for sure, because now theres actual community post memes about men and suicide popping up too, and that was before i watched this.
Something I learned from having a dark time in my life and being in a household that didn’t allow me to have control over anything including what food I ate daily and clothing as well. You will get through it. You will change and get fed up with stuff, relationships end and new ones begin, and you will have experiences to look back on and think “I lived through that”. Having the mentality that things will get better and doing little things (even basic hygiene) will help you figure out what you can handle and what you can’t. Sometimes those things will become daily tasks you don’t even think about anymore and others are things you change to figure out how to be more comfortable with yourself and in your life. This is just my past experience and I know it doesn’t pertain to everyone. I hope everyone who reads this has a good day.
I think for many people, especially those who live in poverty, are part of a marginalized demographic and the working class, many of us can fall into that group of people where we can come to the objective conclusion that our lives have no meaning and are not worth living. Speaking as a person who grew up on a reservation in the United States, when your life is surrounded by reminders that your culture is meaningless that you are a pest that you are "in the way" that your life is less valuable, you begin to believe it. And it is why my tribe is plagued by some of the highest suicide rates in the entire country. And, it is also why politics are important. Its never a fun subject to talk about, but people who are beaten down by the system are more likely to succumb to suicidal ideation, and lose their lives to preventable things that people "don't care about" or believe are "too much to think about". For many of us, these "not fun things" are not something we get the chance to ignore. We aren't allowed to forget. This isn't something that we can fix for ourselves, at least without the help of compassionate people. So, please try to love each other, please try to care for one another, and please try to extend your grace to those who aren't able to fight alone, both with their mental health but also their material conditions and socioeconomic positions. Find it in your heart to care.
I enjoyed the conversation and didn't notice anything wrong. Actually at the very last you brought me to tears because I've had experiences in dreams I can't explain since I was a kid about past lives. So thank you 🤗
Every human has their own unique talents. Beware of the trap of comparing ourselves to our peers who appear to have it all. Thank you Dr K, this subject needs to talked about more often. ❤
Based on what he said, I had a turning point a couple years ago. I'm still not fully happy, but i am feeling a lot better than 6 or 7 years ago. Back then I was studying something I wasn't feeling passionate about, my relationship was about to crash, my friendships felt hollow and I felt lost. At the time, when I ended up alone and marched down a path into self-destruction, I was EXTREMELY fortunate to have a small group of people that helped me. That, combined with luck choosing a better careerpath, stronger friendships and a better relationship, lead to me kinda swerving into a better lane. I still have doubt and I'm still not 100% good. I especially identify with that feeling of "I'm not a good person, I should do better". I go to therapy and it helps. However, there's still stuff I have to do to really be the best I can.
A key take away is that many people have a vasana that going to therapy or acute dark or painful thoughts are only for people with mental health disorders. Even the supposed happiest person on the planet can benefit from an occasional therapy session or meditation. And if you feel like you need therapy that does not automatically mean you are sick. EVERYONE can benefit from talking to a professional.
2:06:53 you made me think about the TV series Monk who had a nurse. A professional figure who supports the patient outside the office. You're such a great doctor. 🙏
Every time you want to do or accomplish something, your mind will be the first entity that will tell you to give up and come up with reasons not to do it. This saved my life, I don't listen to my mind anymore, I listen to me (the true self)
Been feeling a similar way lately, it’s getting worse bc of my inability to find a girlfriend, some say “tinder or online” yet I have, then my “friends” tell me to not approach at all, let her “come to you”, never works, on top of it all, have to deal with legal shit that I don’t need so it ruins my self esteem, they say that you have to “go and get what you want” right? I’ve been living by Stockton CA for years with grandparents since moving after Covid, now I’m stuck, can’t move away, can’t room with anyone right now, all the people here are either taken or don’t want me or don’t say it, I’ve been waking up alone for years, that’s my reason for wanting to pursue this route and each time I hear the passing of the train a 5 minute walk from my room I always wonder what will be the day to send me over… On top of dealing with family I genuinely don’t want to be around anymore, it’s not STABLE for a young adult to live with elders, if anyone else does idk how the FK they do it but when I was younger it was “fine”, now that time passed I see how insane this is.
I can't tell you anything other than: you're not alone with this. The more desperate one is for companionship, the harder it gets to find companionship. Women smell that stuff miles away and avoid such men. It's a vicious cycle but no one wants someone that is needy. I don't know how to fix it...just...deal with it somehow?
@@mr.nobody2244 it’s funny, I’m sitting here watching another trash video that says “low quality men get a lot of girls” which ISS VERY TRUE, for SOME, but I could still choose to sit here and do nothing or I can spent the next few hours at a bar til close and TEST my luck, by no means am I not afraid to try, I tried today a few times, might go again. It really never changes sitting in this house, and I’m sooo off into the rural fields that a drive to just see anyone else besides my family in this place is at least 10 minutes on its own, I can’t stand those long moments in between. I have been dealing with it, over 3 years now. It’s called DISASSOCIATING😈❤️
2:06:02 This! ❤Golden❤️ This really sets with me Thank You Paraphrasing.. "Peer Support. We don't have survivors to show the rest of us how to survive. We need YOU. We need a crop of people to get through what you gone through then go out and help"
As someone who focused on mental health and social work in my undergrad, I'm so glad you are framing this as a realistic symptom of larger social problems that can be fixed. Deaths of despair are a real thing, and are based on external factors.
Idiots on twitter spend all day seeking shit to be triggered and angry about. Taking things out of context and not using any critical thinking is pretty much the norm. Dr. K has helped millions of people become better versions of themselves throughout these years and that will never change.
Thank you this helped me feel better about myself. It's easy to deflect and trivialize it to yourself but I guess the most important thing is how YOU feel about your life. With humans adapting to circumstances, I do wonder if someone in a stable country with 3 meals a day can feel as bad as someone in a less stable country simply because of adaptation. Even now I want to reflexively reject it. You've experienced the isolation and expectations. It feels like be useful or go away. Everyone will clamor that that's not true, but its definitely what is reflected back in media constantly. If it's not true then we should probably stop putting it in everything. And after experiencing it and in some ways moving past it you want to drag it out kicking and screaming and be like "LOOK AT THIS. WE NEED TO WORK ON THIS TOO.". We gotta work on it for everyone's benefit including women's. Be useful or go away. We get problems thrown at us but there's no real help solving it. Then people will say men love the challenge and the competition. More like whelp I'm stuck in this and it's do or die guess I gotta figure something out. Sure as shit isn't fun... And you better not complain about it that's weakness. Fix problem be useful be a man or go away and they'll find someone else.
That's so mentally dangerous - the belief that all men need to be tough and competitive or they're not "real men". I've known non-American men who aren't competitive because it's not considered masculine to be competitive in the culture they're from. It's also unhealthy for men to feel like they have to hold in their pain and not complain or vent. Women don't deal with this toxicity as much. If a woman complains she's likely to get sympathy. Instead of competing, women are expected to relate to one another and build each other up.
So I'm 40 minutes in, and you're talking about the destiny clip... My answer is "It literally does not matter." It literally does not matter whether there's nothing there, or there's something there that is extremely difficult to diagnose. In EITHER case, the only way to even approach it clinically is to find out how to find common ground with someone that, in general, doesn't show the characteristics of a diagnosable condition. in EITHER CASE, there is still this 50%-60% of people that NEED to be approached in a different way that we are FAILING TO ACCOUNT FOR.
As a man wicht had been literally in the edge of a building,thinking that I nothing good in my life to keep going. I can only say that I was there because the way some people treated me (racism,parents always putting me down a bad relationship, etcetera ) like shit I do not consider myself mentally ill or anything, circumstances can put you in that position. I was lucky enough to have someone in my life when I was younger to give me a strong mentality to be able to step back and say to myself that I'll get better,and it has gotten better today I know my self better and really at peace with everything I have been through. Today, I can say that all that happened for me and to me,I hope I'm blessed enough to be able to help as much as I possibly can someone else with those experiences. I thank Dr. K for letting us know that we are not alone 😊
Thanks for this stream. For all the reasons that were brought up, one I didn't see which has been my personal challenge, was a sense of purpose, idk even know where to begin with it. Keep up the good fight!
when he says you gotta therapist shop i just shrug because not only is there no therapists the charities that step in are completely inequipped to handle any mental health condition
Arguably it can be more damaging there's evidence to suggest that just talking about your problems can keep you stuck there's a difference between good and bad therapy
Having been suicidal in the past, empathizing with the patient an validating their view of their situation would definitely have helped me more than telling me I just see things the wrong way. Being validated makes you feel seen -- like you have a right to feel this way (that you absolutely do) -- and will be part of helping you move on.
Unfortunately none of the people who were attacking the clip will watch this video because that's just how the internet works. Anyone who watches you already knows that you're empathetic and view things from the perspective of the patient, as someone who watches you semi frequently it was very easy to see the perspective you're coming from.
what clip is everyone talking about? i've tried looking for it on reddit and twitter but cant find it :/ can you send the link to it or just the name of the clip? thank you
I believe it’s from a podcast with Tim beliyeu or something like that idk the guys name that’s probably not it @uploader5005
@@uploader5005nvm it’s from the diary of a ceo podcast
Yeah, a lot of those comments were from Blue checks as well. The type of person who would PAY to use TWITTER of all websites are always saying the most outrageous stuff, because Twitter boosts it automatically for being a payed account.
ik :( i am super excited for this video, i havent watched but i bet it is nuanced ok the point and will open my mind like aways K
There is no way anyone can seriously believe Dr. K was advocating that peoples whose lives are bad should check out. We are having a serious conversation, and Dr K is trying to help people who are down bad. He has done way more than any of the people who just say "go to therapy" as if thats a be all end all.
Yes he isn't saying that, he is clearing up misconceptions about why stuff happens/ people make these decisions... its incredibly dishonest and downright malicious to twist what he said like that
Yeah these people that think that way probably haven't been watching his content for any amount of time
@@Madchris8828 people who think that either maliciously misunderstood or can find their IQ on a thermostat..
@@evan12697 do you really think Alok would talk about these people who don't understand in that way?
@@uhnah7652 no, he's way too positive for that. I, however...
Only twitter can misunderstand something so badly that they make a psychologist clairfy "I don't support suicide". 🤣
Twitter is the worst platform......it's like gaming lobby... everyone talks shit and trolls...
Honestly I'm not even sure everyone that does that actually does misunderstand. A lot of the time I think most of the people are instead dishonest. Some people value drama more than truth.
Gotta get the clicks. @@frishter
@@frishterMost people are lying to themselves all the time, anyway.
The worst part - Dr. K wasted 20 minutes explaining himself to people who already understand what he meant. And it won't even reach those twitter trolls.
I'm not suicidal, but am 33, friendless, and an alcoholic, so I'm experiencing the "slow suicide" Dr K described, but I'm going to overcome it and try to help someone one day. Good luck to anyone else that's going through it and let's all get better.
Exactly same boat as you. Alcoholic, 33. And a west coast kid, lol. Can I ask what began your drinking? For me, some traumatic shit altered my personality and turned me into a sheltered introvert. Not being able to enjoy the company of others compelled me to drink. Until ironacally it made me lose touch with everyone and isolate in the long run. You?
@@phillystevesteak6982I'm with both of y'all. Friendless, drink all the time. Smoke. Never leave the house really. Tried to make changes unsuccessfully. Was suicidal over a decade ago. Lost many of the friends I did have to it. So I don't know anymore 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Good luck with your journey, man
@@phillystevesteak6982 Long story short, I had a traumatic experience involving law enforcement which led me to shut down completely and isolate myself from the shame of it. I turned to drinking and it quickly turned from using it mainly for social reasons, into using it as a coping mechanism from the isolation and shame. I don't really enjoy the buzz from alcohol anymore as I just get lethargic, but it's such an ingrained default in my brain whenever I have free time now.
Fellow 33. Only have 4 really close friends.
I’ve been diagnosed with depression, and I am prone to bouts of loneliness, especially when surrounded by people (weird, I know). Lost two friends because of my behavior from depression. Very strong words and feelings came out. Reaching out has proved useless. One of them was very dear to me, too…
Been going through the experience of “slow suicide” myself because of the guilt and regret of it all…
Not alcoholic nor do I do any drugs at all, but I play video games a little too much now.
This is a "I like waffles/oh so you hate pancakes" situation... But I'm glad Dr K took the time to respond, I just hope any of these people see it and care at all to listen
Twitter people don’t have the brain capacity for nuance
the term for this is called "bad faith interpreting"
Saving this
Holy crap. You stalking me? How did you know I hate pancakes and love waffles.
🗣 Do you like waffles? 🗣Yeah we like waffles! 🗣Do you like pancakes? 🗣Yeah we like pancakes!
When I was suicidal, I was drawn to it precisely because my life was awful. I did not need a great deal of internal work (though I did need to grieve). Instead, I needed to have a different set of experiences in the world. I know that Dr K advocates meditation and so on, and I agree that his ideas are great, but when someone is deep in the shit, Dr K's ideas are going to fall flat. The best analogy I can come up with is a child living with in physically abusive home. Before any healing can happen, the child needs to be removed from that home. Telling that child to meditate after every beating is not going to work.
Sadly, for many of us, the world itself is toxic and abusive. Bering rejected, being an outcast, etc. is a form of trauma and in order to heal, one simply must stop being traumatized. Even more sadly, the world is not interested in helping men in this area of life. In fact, the world does not even see the problem as I have just described it.
I'd say your child abuse analogy isn't accurate tbh. For 1 Dr. K recommends a lot more than just meditation, meditation is just 1 aspect of it all.
Going back to your abuse analogy what Dr. K recommends is more akin to the child find some place that's a refuge from the abuse, metaphorically speaking that's like going to a friend's house where their family makes your day more bearable.
In reality it's insanely hard and destabilizing to change all your environmental factors all at once. You change it piece by piece, little by little.
I find it interesting that your interpretation of what he's trying to say or advocate for is just meditation and internal work. For one, in this very video he recognizes that for someone mentally healthy to consider suicide, their life circumstances must just be that bad. That's a straight up recognition of the fact your environment can be that bad.
Secondly, your comment seems to assume that meditation is the only thing he would ask you to do. It isn't, and he's demonstrated that time and again. Improving your perspective on yourself and doing work on yourself, and trying to improve your external circumstances by getting out of a bad environment, are not mutually exclusive. In fact, sometimes the thing preventing someone from even recognizing that their environment is the cause, or that they have a way out of their external circumstances, is something internal. If the only thing you have control over is yourself, then that's where you have to start.
Lastly, I'm not sure why you assume his approach will fall flat. Based on what information, your opinion? He has data to prove that he's helped the overwhelming majority of his patients. He's talked about previous patients before, and although it was very vague due to patient confidentiality, there have definitely been cases he's talked about that are just as bad as your example. He recognises he can't help everyone and has not been able to, even in this vdeo, but that doesn't change the fact he helps an overwhelming majority of those he works with. He knows he can help them because he already has.
Hm... after posting my comment, though, I suddenly realized I might just be accidentally invalidating your experience as well. I still think that it's strange that you think he wouldn't be able to help, but I have to recognize that whatever went on or is going on in your life must be pretty bad to make that assertion. Sorry for immediately trying to get adversarial about your opinion. I don't know the circumstances, but I do hope that whatever needs to happen in your life for it to improve happens.
You just said it all in so few words.
He doesn't advocate merely meditating in that circumstance. I think you've missed the point. He's saying that perfectly mentally healthy people (ie no mental illness) are driven to suicide because their life sucks that much. He's addressed basically every point you've said.
Telling a patient with a legitimately horrific life that it's all in their head and they just need to fix their mind isn't just extremely bad therapy it's outright psychological abuse gaslighting a patient into blaming themselves for things beyond their control any professional that engages in this should be fired immediately!!!! These struggling people need the comfort and safety of having their thoughts and feelings validated as a legitimate reaction to circumstances beyond their control while simultaneously receiving hope that that legitimately shitty life can and will improve! They don't just need mental health help they need community support to address the legitimate challenges in their life that are making them feel like suicide is the only option things like abuse, poverty, homelessness, addiction and so many other factors! I think the attitude you've received as a reaction to what you said this is the entire reason the male suicide rate is so high people refuse to stop victim blame men and acknowledge that a lot of men end up in situations that are legitimately unfair through no fault of their own but society tells men their privileged and doesn't offer them any help leaving them feeling so hopeless that they turned to suicide. Being treated for depression when you're not actually depressed and your life just sucks can do way more harm than good people start to think they have to control their thoughts and feelings and behavior and feel even worse about themselves when they can't causing a deeper spiral when the truth is if their physical life around them could be improved their suffering would be relieved but first we need a society that gives a shit about men and that's not happening anytime soon!
This is also true as it applies to men’s dating struggles. We’re constantly told to improve and become better men, we’re told to reflect on what we did wrong when women hurt our feelings or behave poorly towards us. As if everything is our fault.
But when women complain about the dating market, suddenly it becomes “Men are pigs! You shouldn’t have to change anything about yourself for them.”
The social zeitgeist is structured in a way that implies women are literally superior to us, for the reason I’ve stated and numerous others
Maybe the LGBTQIA+ crowd is onto something
He's talking about the cases where their life is objectively ok, he always specifies that some people's lives are truly hard and that's the reason those people choose suicide, that's the reason people misunderstood him.
He also speaks about how we have the power to change the situation.
When life "just" sucks... from what I have learned in recent years, it seems to me that "life sucks" is the main reason behind most depressions. Overwork, disconnect from nature, loneliness, toxic food, lack of physical activity - lots of people are doing "objectively" ok, meaning, their jobs sustain them and they have a somewhat decent home to live in. But we have reshaped human lives in ways that seem to make a lot of us feel like we're close to dying all the time, even when we are not plaged with physical hardship or disease.
Make one or two wrong decisions in life, and you're fucked forever. Those don't even have to be, on the surface, catastrophic decisions. Like moving to a new town for a job... but only after a few years you realize you are not the person who tends to make new friends easily. Had I known what I know about myself now, I would definitely have chosen a more physical job, and not left my home town.
This is a good spot that explains what Dr. K is stating for the example u bring up. 28:47
@@Volkbrechtthis is it. We have no security, not economic, not emotional, not social, everything can be taken from us by just a bad choice or an accident, nowadays.
I used to have a job that was soul-crushing. And then they had me doing the work of 3 people at once, with time pressure as trucks were coming in and needed to be loaded (by me) and orders needed to be put together (by me) and the trucks were piling up.
I straight up broke down, I hid in the bathroom to cry. Went back out and there were 2 more trucks.. just piling up.
I wanted to kill myself, just didn't know how. By the end of that day, I knew how.. not gonna risk my account by telling the details.
2 days later, I got really close, so damn close, adrenaline rushing through my veins and... I quit. No plan, barely any money to hold me over. But I'm alive today, there really was a strong chance that I wouldn't be here today.
So today I live with my parents again, feeling like absolute dogshit, never had a girlfriend at 28 years old, had a traumatic childhood both home and at school.
Wow, writing this out is really putting things into perspective. My life sucks and have little to zero prospect of getting better..
You're only 28... Plenty of time. I'm 38 and while I have no gf for 10 years now, I also live with my parents, but I have an excellent job, making good money, and things are looking somewhat good... So... don't lose hope. Also, us men have a longer biological clock, you can be desired well into your 50s if not more. Finding a quality relationship is not easy, but only needs to happen once (or a few times)... Ultimately, so what if we don't secure this, or that. Our consciousness is still here, a unique, unrepeatable witnessing of the world... I am enough, just as I am, even if completely alone. I need to let myself be. Become my best friend, or at least a good friend... No need for self-hate. I have 3 friends who are all in marriages and relationships and they're more miserable and stressed than me. Their children may abandon them in the future too, their marriages are on the verge of failure, and they may all still end up dying alone.
I read a quote yesterday: "Remember, being happy doesn't mean you have it all. It simply means you're thankful for all you have."
Life can always be much better, but it can be much worse too. The mind makes us blind to what we have.
Dude, don't do it!
It's not worth it!!!
Go for a walk, preferably mountains or some woods, and just start listening to nature, it will help you!
Well as someone who was in the pit of despair, I can say that it can only go up from the bottom. I’m sorry you’re going through so much. Hopelessness is really a pit of hell. I hope you find some way of figuring out a glimmer. I got lucky and figured what I needed to feel hopeful again. I hope God gives you that glimmer like he did for me. I’ll be praying for you.
28 back at home too , the financial pressure our generation has is only comparable to 1929 depression era , with the cost of food being almost that proportionally high . But they got out of it and we can too . Keep on .
@@avisso5467Don't worry too much, I'm not actively suicidal anymore, just miserable. If anything the (rare) suicidal thoughts that I have today are thoughts that I observe, not internalize. Dr K taught me that my thoughts, my mind, is not me. I can observe the thoughts and let them pass.
But thanks for the kind words.
The reason why this upsets some people is that every suicide that has nothing to do with a mental illnes, is an undeniable in-your-face truth that something with our society is wrong and that we have failed to help this person. And that's something we don't want to accept. That there ARE problems that we can not fix alone, and sometimes we ARE responsible for other humans wellbeing, and that there ARE consequences of our actions for other people.
💯 This.
only some are responsible; everyone else is a victim. Right sweet baby?
Individuals cannot fix systematic problems,especially if the system tries its hardest to maintain this sick state of affairs,because it benefits a select few. On top of that,the same system gaslights everyone into believing that they are the problem,instead of the corrupt system. That's the biggest issue
@@fotisstergiou1165 Utter bullshit. There isn't any control beyond the directly personal-- if any change is to occur on a systemic level, it must occur through the decision of each individual-- and the actions of each individual, can be influenced by the actions of a single individual.
The entire framework is a self-defeatist cope designed to justify not even trying.
No, I can easily imagine someone having a terrible life AND not being mentally ill AND society not being at fault.
I can imagine for example a person with severe physical problems. You could have a perfectly structured society and certain disabilities would still be incredibly difficult to live with.
These people really have no clue how bad it gets. They say if you're in chronic pain that's a valid reason but completely forget that you can be in chronic emotional pain. Not because you're mentally ill but because you were taught to hate yourself
That was unexpectedly profound. Thank you.
It's good and vital to remember that suicidal people don't need to be told they are wrong which only adds to the alienation and loneliness regarding their situation. Many kill themselves before bothering the people around them. It's far better to realize and admit that it's far from strange to at some point in your life to reasonably feel that it's not worth having. Of course for some the coping mechanism is avoiding the thoughts altogether so they'll be angry if others don't support their necessary self-deception, but most need understanding and connection. Platitudes like all lives is worth living is not taking any aspect if the conversation seriously.
yep you need to take someones mental state they experiment serious to connect to them and make them feel safe, trusted valid enough to, open up.
Hell even if you want to talk someone out of something, not rediculing their state of mind, is the first thing to do and consider what they might experience.
Hell even with it gets better, feels empty, through its usually right that it gets rough but better dealing with it, but it feels unatainable and even that isnt that good advice.
So yes considering and taking someones state of mind and there they probably are serious is the first step. Without being patronizing, or not trying to sound patrinizing but treat them as people with agency. Or at least talk like that.
There is one therapist (DR.K) who unlike most isn't dismissing people's individual experiences and people attack him.
I literally stopped asking for help from therapists because they would try to tell me what I should and shouldn't feel and what I should be doing through their own lens and experience and life situation instead of mine. They kept misdiagnosing me because they never actually listened
Where is that? From where I am from any therapist worth their asses make most of the session about listening and making you come up to the best conclusion you can. I know that is just one MO for therapy and there are several schools of psychology with different practices. It still feels weird what you described.
I found that most twitter users who jump on the dogpile are barely rational and have no experience on the subject professionally or personally
@@TheSilverwolf97 this experience is more common than you think. I've heard from many and experienced it myself. Therapy is great once you find the right person for you though, but more often than not it can take multiple tries.
+1 been to two different therapists and both did this to one degree or another. They listened, but there was not much prompting me to analyze what I’d said. It was all jumping to conclusions and then projecting onto me.
@@alexsfcmy first two therapists were absolutely useless. My third helped me understand my diagnosis of ADHD and being on spectrum. Just like people therapists aren't all good lol. To be fair maybe it was a me problem and we just weren't compatible.
In high school, a guy who was always upbeat, funny, empathetic, and well-liked killed himself, and we didn't understand it. He was the last person we thought would take his life, and he left no clues to explain his decision. He didn't appear mentally ill, and we assumed he must have been hiding depression under a happy mask for a long time. You explained in a few of your episodes that people with ADHD are at higher risk for suicide because they act on impulse when something really painful happens, and I realized that was quite probably what happened to my friend. I don't know if someone broke his heart or a parent disowned him, but I think one day something bad happened and he followed an impulse to kill himself. You are saving lives by letting us know that anybody can kill themselves at any time without a mental illness, and we should always be taking care of each other! Mental health is not the mere absence of mental illness, and it's not something anyone can create for themselves independently. We all need someone who we know will pick up the phone for us at 2 AM.
I am a class clown, one insight I can give is that guy who upbeat, funny, empathetic, and well-liked, for him(might be) or for me is that there to no other option for acceptance other than being upbeat, funny, empathetic, and well-liked. you feel like a jester in a circus. people cheer you for the show and the n everyone forgets you in your harrowing horrors.
empathetic
I constantly feel I need to be empathetic as in listening to others and caring cause I was told when in childhood my school teachers and my mom told me I am selfish, for not listening to teachers, not doing homework and just doing what you think.
upbeat
Sadness , depression, showing pain, etc was so shunned growing up, especially to relatives or to strangers. My mom would beat me up in morning but if I step outside I had to somehow learn to not be sad and show pain as people gossip and in general don't like to hang with Sad Nancy.
well-liked
people-pleasing , growing up if your own mom wished you were not born as you are and school teachers seeing you as a lost cause and then your class mates see you the same way. you wonder your place in the world and you do everything to be liked even if it at expense of self.
funny
Hey , I am getting kicked out of classroom, but hey let me do a silly walk. seeing teacher get annoyed but entire class laughing, makes you feel worth. You might be hopeless case academically as a kid in general, but you alteast got validation and also made others laugh. Cause at home especially , you are getting beaten up in name of discipline.
I felt good and still do making others laugh , but I at bed all, alone I stare at the ceiling depressed alone and abandoned.
At the idk what your friend went through, but most likely he felt abandoned and felt no one cares for him and he is mere performer in the show for pennies of validation to soothe low self esteem.
Jeez, I’m so sorry to hear of your friends passing. It’s really sad when good people end their own lives. It’s almost a crime against nature in a way
@@rajanlad yeah I jestermaxxed in school and it just made me look like a human doormat
@@NickGreiner1988 jestermaxxed haha.
Yeah agree.
Obviously, I am not sure how long ago this was, but drugs like Ritalin (that were popular when I was in school) also contribute to that. There was a study that found that children on Ritilin (an ADHD medication) were more likely to commit suicide. I had a brother they put on different meds for ADHD and he saw bugs crawling all over his body. The stuff we put into our bodies...
The goat has spoken again
Meh-eh-eh?
Well people shouldn´t allow artificial intelligence to be the thing....
because young men will not get jobs that they work hard for, with their talent and originality,
which may lead to low selfesteem, even though they are very talented and supported by family...
they would rather hire AI for free, it´s annoying...than a talented person.
Sam Vaknin says AI is very narcissistic, because
it steals jobs, it pretends empathy, the science shows the AI several times passed the "empathy test", but its a scam, AI has no empathy, except the pretended empathy...
it steals information of other people, it steals their hard work....
it also spreads misinformation and fake data..
It wouldn´t be surprising if people would argue, in the algorithm on social media
about some misinformation, spread by AI....which creates a hate groups and less productivity.
or if AI would create fake info or a "Viral virus" about some topic....to distract people from a real problems.
🐐🐐🐐
People just don't want to see it. "It's only lunatics that off themselves, heaven forbid it has anything to do with us!"
Thanks for another good vid.
WHO says stuff like that? Seriously?
Yeah. And level 2 is realizing there usually isn't a big difference between "us" and "lunatics".
@@dumfriesspearhead7398 I don't think anyone outright say it but reacting like that shows that they might think this way on a subconscious level.
@dumfriesspearhead7398 the assumption that suicide is caused purely by mental illness is essentially a polite version of what OPs characterization of their belief is
☆The opposite of depression is self-expression☆
So when a person isn't depressed, the person is self-expressing his/her light soul - when the person goes in a depression it's when the person isn't expressing him/herself. We all need to start to be kinder to each other and embrace happiness, peace and kindness. It’s judgement, abuse and negativity that leads people in to depression.
We can get people out of depression by being kind and encouraging their interests (the person might find purpose&happiness in taking care of an animal or being in the nature or painting, writing, singing, dancing etc) so talk to depressed people and ask what their heart desires♡
Love this man. On track to become a therapist. I've noticed I'm the only male in my 25 person Advanced Techniques of Counseling and Psychotherapy class. Luckily, I got a great professor (and judging by my university stint so far, they are in rare supply!). I look up quite a bit to Carl Rogers, and really enjoyed your continued emphasis on "meet them where they are" - the core of Yield theory.
Keep it up man, I've been devouring your content for about 2-3 weeks now since I discovered it!
Love Carl Rogers & his theories! - psychology student
I had a close friend who does the "slow suicide" right now. He's drinking, partying, smoking dope, and he plans to die by age 45. And I'm not quite sure how to help him. But what I'm pretty sure of is that telling him "you have so much to live for" will absolutely not work. And listening to Dr. K helped me get at least 2 other friends out of really bad headspaces, when they were spiraling. So from personal experience, I'm giving the W to Dr. K.
bro sounds based
It is not possible to help someone who does not seek help. The only thing you can do is be a friend. Not a special, caring friend. Just be around, maybe occasionally ask how he is doing and actively listen to the response. Share the fun when there is some to be shared, and offer the kind of assistance people generally need. You know, moving furniture, helping with DIY stuff.
And by the way: I would not pay too much attention to plans like "dying by 45". It's not super difficult to commit suicide. Anyone who puts it off for years is basically saying that there are still things in life they enjoy, that they don't want to miss out on.
@@Volkbrecht Or they are just scared, I know plenty suicidal folks who are just scared, if they were not scared of dying they'd have done it already off the jump instead of doing a different form. Slow death is still death it is just less obvious, less traumatising to do than other direct to the point forms.
@@VolkbrechtI half agree and half disagree. bc someone like that could accidentally or purposefully overdose or get alcohol poisoning. I’ve never heard it called “slow suicide” before though. I could agree they still want to live. I think everybody (99.9999999%) still wants to live. It’s just they are struggling badly and can’t cope with the situation they are in. This is a bit of a ramble as I did include an anecdote but decided to take it out. But just because they aren’t actively planning to hurt themselves doesn’t mean you should have 0 concern. One day something might snap in them. But hopefully they reach a point to seek help before they do.
Talk to them & connect on a personal level. Dig their true expressions out. These people are hiding something truly painful and are afraid to explore it, all the partying drinking is a coping mechanism to not feel their pain. Shame is a real killer.
I'm a paychofan of Dr K and since two years reraly a day go by when I don't watch his staff. Sometimes I nitpick and criticize little things that has not been said perfectly in my opinion. I feel like such a fool right now. He does a tremendous work. It's blowing my mind the lenghts he goes to get through to every person and hear out everyone. He is truly enlightened.
Socioeconomic status! I desperately wish that more therapists and psychiatrists would take individual's socioeconomic status into account when diagnosing and creating treatment plans. You can't solve mental health problems without understanding them in the greater context of patients' lives. Thank you for being one who does, Dr. K.
Ah yes rich and loved for something you dont enjoy doing == cant be depressed
@@ghevisartor6005That's not what I was saying at all. People who are rich, physically attractive, and have healthy social lives absolutely need help for depression. Even people with seemingly perfect lives can have chemical imbalances. I'm only saying that if mental healthcare isn't holistic enough to account for socioeconomic status, it's destined to fail at least in some way for almost everyone else.
"you should get a therapist you'll love it" it doesn't help when about 60%+ of therapists suck
this besides the absolute stranglehold leftist/liberal politics have on therapists to the point they just flatly pathologize anything vaguely centrist/right of center
And costs a fortune
And if all that they tell you is: "its your own fault, you have to acknowledge it, or we cant continue the progress."
So either you become societys humility-piss-rug or you become a problem. Id rather become a problem then.
yep look at what it did for reckful too
It took me way too long to find one that would actually help me. If you're looking for a therapist, please see someone that does cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt). It literally changed my life.
Dr K is completely right about meeting with empathy; from an in and out psyche patient? The ones who helped me the most met me halfway and helped me find my way out of the dark tunnel together. On the flipside?
After 16 years of self work and improvement and reaching a point where id accepted that so many things in my life I blamed myself for werent my fault, my newest therapist listened to me for months, only to tell me finally that he doesnt believe i had any of the (diagnosed by multiple professionals and panels) mental disorders I thought and maybe I was just a bad person who did the things to myself through my choices. (Some of them? Yes of course, however most of them? Theyre from actual chemical issues and mental issues I didnt have under control due to lack of diagnosis)
Shit ruined my world and self perception, even now i struggle horribly with guilt and self loathing due to it. Thankfully it has gotten much better but its still there.
Man, I was really anxious and feeling suicidal today! I opened youtube and Dr K talks about male suicide! You can't plan or explain this, damn!
There are no coincidences imo.
So glad you're still here man. I still believe there are coincidences, but that doesn't mean I'm not hella glad this was one of them
Good job sticking around to watch. Stick around a little longer!
Same
I feel it has alot to do with sleep/how tired you feel.
Great video, Dr. K! I love the bit near the end about why we need to become more aware of our thoughts and patterns and how our lack of knowledge about ourselves prevents us from having skills to fix our lives. Very well spoken.
I would love to see you do a video about attachment styles, attachment trauma, and subconscious programming (unless you've already done it) *goes to check for it*
The issue I find is that so many people have had a privileged life without realising it, often because of random chance.
Supportive family. Good school. Good friends who’ve they kept into adulthood. Sexual partners without particular effort. A decent career. A home.
These people literally cannot understand what it’s like to be healthy but have literally no reason to keep going, because you had none of the things they took for granted. Because you were neglected and never had friends or relationships or any evidence of self worth.
This is why so many men are killing themselves. They’ve had to struggle for everything they have and one day they’re 40 and suicide is a less painful proposition than 40 more years of struggle.
It’s not mental illness. It’s a logical deduction.
I have a friend that pretty much everything he has ever done has come easy to him. I can't talk to him about struggles I have most of the time because he genuinely can't fathom or understand them to any degree.
I only had a bit of that privilege, it makes me sad how unfair life is.
best any of these guys like K is" just gotta try more, it's porn and video games fault blau blau blau"
Completely agree
🎉God damnit🎉
Been thinking all day about how there is no point in therapy for me because my experiences keep being denied and I keep being told I’m wrong or not understanding the life I have lived. Honestly this gives me a bit of hope, I had a horrific child hood and teenage years. I’m going to try a little longer.
for me the whole thing is "can talking to a therapist make my situation change such that i will have income to move out and meet a wife to have kids with? No? Then i'll save my money, thanks"
@@evan12697 I know exactly what you mean, I’m only getting therapy and psychiatric help now that I have money to afford it. I won’t hold my breath on finding love or having any family though, I just don’t see myself ever having or being what I’m supposed to for someone to want me. Also, why are we subscribed to the exact same people, that’s wild.
@@evan12697 yes, actually. dr k is an example of "life changing". imagine if you met dr k, what he could do for you. that's a therapist.
@@jlllx Well,that life-changing experience requires a lot of cash,that most people don;t have to spare. How can a minimum wage worker ''change his life'' when he cannot afford a therapist in the first place?
I'm a survivor. Dr K is 100% correct. If you don't have a clear path, it's because you haven't found the right help yet. The victory of looking back and seeing that you overcame yourself is priceless! You are unique, for some reason, there is no one like you in the world. Do not give up!
Also a survivor. Didn't have my first breakthrough until I hit 30. Currently 39 and I'm so glad I said no to "self deletion" back then.
I hope you re right.
Thank you man I needed some motivation
survivor=quitter.
☆The opposite of depression is self-expression☆
So when a person isn't depressed, the person is self-expressing his/her light soul - when the person goes in a depression it's when the person isn't expressing him/herself. We all need to start to be kinder to each other and embrace happiness, peace and kindness. It’s judgement, abuse and negativity that leads people in to depression.
We can get people out of depression by being kind and encouraging their interests (the person might find purpose&happiness in taking care of an animal or being in the nature or painting, writing, singing, dancing etc) so talk to depressed people and ask what their heart desires♡
Also i don't see how anyone could misunderstand the clip UNLESS they have never felt suicidal or hopeless..
I don't feel like my life is worth living right now, and there is nothing worse then a family member going "Oh but there is so much to live for, there is so many things! Why do you feel sad?" or the worse one "well there are other people who are also unable to work, they might be physically handicapped and strapped to a chair but they aren't going to let the depression take them down, you shouldn't either".
I have friends, family, a partner, a nice home with nice thing, money is not an issue even though *i* cant work, I'm very creative and some say I'm very intelligent too.
I am a female with late diagnosed Autism, i have a shit ton of Trauma in my childhood, neglect and sexual trauma too. I was always the fun, quirky and shy girl, everyone liked me, but i had no real friends, my teenage years where a mess, lots of failed relationships, no real boundaries, even more sexual trauma, I'm lucky i said no to drugs...
Growing up with a mom who still to this day, ramble on how hard it is to be a single mother, how she couldn't live a full life because she had me to take care off, how she was bound to raise me and work while everyone else had husbands that could at least help with the load, going on holidays, or having family that could just once in a while take over.. I felt like a burden, and still do.
My bag of traumas, is my most prominent issue, the seems are tearing and i get very uncomfortable "flashbacks" whenever i am reminded, triggered and i don't know what the triggers are.
I cant work, i couldn't finish an education, I'm on financial aid, i am the "bottom" of witch the politicians talk about, the gross inhuman people leaching on the system..
I don't want to be here, i want to work, i tried to work, but it will kill me. I am home, alone, all day, until my partner comes home.. Some days he also just needs to unplug and just play games alone or with friends, sometimes i join in, other times i sit, alone, by myself, playing whatever, or staring at the wall..
People who have not sat in my situation will never understand why my will to live is none, they will never understand the constant struggle, the fight to keep going.
They look at me and tell me to make the most of it. How everyone would love to not have to work, to just sit at home, watching Netflix or going for a walk in nature - they don't understand that after 10 years, it gets really boring.. Its not fun, or nice, or refreshing.. because i don't work i also cant afford many things, i am a 100% depending on my partner to pay everything out of the ordinary..
I don't even pay half the rent because then i wouldn't have ANY money left for clothes, or a coffee with my mom or whatever i spend it on..
I'm working on finding my reason, but it is not easy, and people who never walked in my shoes will never understand why my life, to me, has not been worth living.
I relate to a lot of what you said, but some parts I can only imagine. Having been through my own kind of hell, I have gained a grasp and appreciation of the strength and courage that lies within people faced with insurmountable struggles. Maybe my view is unrealistic, but I truly believe that it is those who still stand after being beaten and broken, that are so much stronger and larger than they self can see.
I hope you can agree that noone, even oneself should blame us for the ways we struggle. We deserve love for the ways we can cope, because just to live is a selfless act.
Thank you for sharing your words, and I hope mine can be of any help.
Wish you all the best and I truly believe in you whoever you may be
This is why I never use social media to get news
It's all emotion inducing distortions
It's intentionally set up that way for clicks
distortions? I am the sleeper agent
☆The opposite of depression is self-expression☆
So when a person isn't depressed, the person is self-expressing his/her light soul - when the person goes in a depression it's when the person isn't expressing him/herself. We all need to start to be kinder to each other and embrace happiness, peace and kindness. It’s judgement, abuse and negativity that leads people in to depression.
We can get people out of depression by being kind and encouraging their interests (the person might find purpose&happiness in taking care of an animal or being in the nature or painting, writing, singing, dancing etc) so talk to depressed people and ask what their heart desires♡
@@Madchris8828Yep, the algorithm framework for social media is built that way, users really need to understand that in its entirety for their wellbeing.
True.
One of the most level-headed, even-handed, polite, and accurate "um, actually" I've ever seen
Great response! Being depressed =\= having depression. It’s unhelpful to pathologize responses to difficult life circumstances. We should lift each other up through the hard times instead.
Its important to understand that most people go through depressed phases in their life without qualifying for the diagnosis!
As a woman and neurobiologist, I find this content amazing. I have some male friends who are able to express their emotions critically and clearly so that I'm able to understand what they're going through, and what they think their friends are going through. But they're not many, they grew up in an exceptionally positive environment, as I did, so essentially I can only get one perspective which definitely doesn't apply to the majority of the male (and female) population.
Being able to listen to a psychiatrist with this much experience and this much talent in communication is truly great, I want to get better at understanding the situations, the nuances and different perspectives of how men are living right now, because it majorly affects us women too! We definitely have different problems, but we clearly can't fix them by ourselves, we have to try to meet halfway somehow.
So, thank you dr. K, these conversations help everyone a lot 😊
Imagine knowing somebody who lives in a household that has abusive people. This person gets bullied, beaten up, explored and manipulated. And then this person comes up to you, opens up and starts crying, and the only thing you say is: "Just go do therapy!" How do you think that person's gonna feel? Have we come so far in being indifferent to eachother that when we see people whose lives are broken and we just outsource them to professionals instead of providing help?
That's my two cents on this convo, thanks Dr K for providing an entire group of people a voice of empathy
But the people that person may go to may not have the emotional or even physical resources to assist and might be putting their own mental health and lives in danger.
Yes but its hard to help someone if you dont have skills - especially person who had never experienced mental illnes or problems (shitty life)
Excellent lecture. I'll definitely need to do a re-watch.
Also, Dr. K's exasperation at the guru comment had me feeling sympathetic frustration. I imagine he was thinking "You've got to be kidding me, has anyone been listening to me this entire time?!?!"
Hello, thank you for talking about this. As someone who survived the worst of depression but is still getting everything in order. I feel verry thank full that you spread awareness. Because right now peaple just don't understand how devastating it can be to struggle with life. I agree that taking your life is bad but sometimes it is not what that person needs to hear. In stead that person longs for someone who tells them it is bad right now but it wil get better. And if more non doctors,helpers,... know what it is it might make a difference. I do think you can explain the objective bad life stuff with a river. some peaple consently fight against the current and get varry tired along the way so they start to give up. So they need someone to throw a rope to rest on that rope for a bit.
The longer Dr. K speaks, the more based it gets 🥰
Something else is also getting harder the more he speaks😏
This is an example of vasana
Check out his recent appearance on the Iced Coffee Hour podcast. 4+ hours.
Pog does he finally recommend communism to people in need?
@@anuk1311He really dances around making an actual critique of capital, he comes so close over and over but shifts the focus to "economic decay" or "uncertain times" without pointing out that those things are inherent to the system.
I am at a point in my life I arrived at the logical and rational conclusion that the best course of action is suicide. But my survival instinct is still too strong, so I don’t act. So my next thought is that I should at least use drugs since I am gonna stay alive for a while. But I know it’s just a slower form of suicide, so I don’t pursue it - but I am sure I would be weak if the temptation was beside me. I am not sure how long my survival instinct will stay stronger than my own reasoning and logic.
What makes your life so bad?
It can be really frustrating and just proves no one wants to listen to young men when the internet is getting upset over this even though I saw tons of men saying this felt like their experience. This is real empathy and understanding from others perspective from Dr K
Yup, men who feel like they don’t have agency having their suspicions confirmed by being told it HAS to be a mental illness out of their control.
It’s very painful to see.
"No one"? Really? Wtf so you think Dr K, his peers and this audience is doing? Don't go getting so dramatic over some rage-boner twitter losers.
The exception that proves the rule.
He is literally getting flack and retaliation, accused of misogyny online for bringing it up .
We replaced international men's day with world toilet day!!
You can't say anything to help men with this backlash.
@@DeadCat-42 I think we should be able to talk about men without comparing them to women, it's true there's a lot of misogyny in the world but helping men being more healthy mentally will help everyone. One argument doesn't invalidate the other in my opinion
@@francogiggino1545There is more misandry than misogyny yet we don't condemn it !
My life isn't even that bad but I wake up every day wishing I hadn't. Appreciate you and others like Dr. Scott Eilers for uploading free help to RUclips. You're absolutely saving lives.
Hope you're on your way out of that hole! Shine a light for me when you get to the top, I keep finding myself down here.
Im a woman whos been dealing with alot of mental health issues my whole life. I definitely feel that depression and mental illness within male community is something to be talked about. I also think it has a close correlation to crimes committed by males. We often think it's a gender issue where male is more likely to more violent but I think theres more to this than just being a man. Isolation and lonliness lead to antisocial behaviors and tendencies. Its a societal issue.
Im a man who is more of a pacifist than violent. But i feel deeply isolated and lonely, that every week i experience thoughts of wanting to end it so to not suffer
This might be your best video, Dr. K. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Infinite love
That interview helped me alot I thank you for it Dr.K I been struggling with existence for my entire life and started taking steps to understand myself
The guy in that video, destiny, sounds like he's never dealt with depression or had a single difficult day in his life. The disbelief he has that external influences and life circumstance can lead to suicide is unbelievable. And he sounds arrogant about it too.
Social media darlings often have been succesful for so long that they Don't remember what its like to suffer or feel like shit
Last line is therapy... yet it's too expensive specifically for the people for need it the most. And how to find a good therapist at that.
Exactly. He also goes on to talk about how privileged he was, it just illustrates how blind he is to see the economic reality of actually trying to fix yourself. All the while charging exorbitant fees for his own services.
Apparently all you're good for in his eyes is a paycheck😂
You're spot on, Dr. K. I've been a DBT therapist for over 26 years now. We deal with suicidality and work reciprocally toward Life Worth Living goals while learning skills in mindfulness, emotion regulation, distress tolerance, and relationship skills that aim toward a Life Worth Living. Thanks for promoting effective compassion.
I know that you usually provide links to the papers mentioned, but actually going through and showcasing the source material in this video was actually really helpful. I feel like there is normally a barrier to going through and skimming each paper separately and this style actually made me want to read them even more.
55:00 dispairing in life without depression. That's me. I've filled in a comprehensive test a few weeks ago and it said I am not depressed. Scored high on distress, negative thoughts and anxiety. Not depression. I have bouts of 2-3 hours 2-3 times a week when I don't feel like living anymore. And the rest of the time I don't feel that at all.
For me the dispair comes from not getting the help I need. I am 35F, very probably autistic and due to life circumstances it wasn't noticed before. I've been messing around a lot these past 12 years with different educations and jobs hopping from one to the other. I still have to finish my education, which is starting to get a tight deadline, however I am completely stuck on my thesis, my job and my personal life. (Having a paid 'vacation' right now from the boss.) And if I don't finish that thesis I'll be stuck with a huge debt and no education. The waiting lists for starting ASD specific help are 7-9 months. Of course I get desperate and feel dispair!
It's not that I haven't sought help before and got it. It just never was ASD specific and didn't really help as much as expected. Which is not weird if you're stuck on all kinds of typical daily things and feel overwhelmed a lot in a way other people around your age do not experience. It's difficult to feel good about yourself and basic life skills are still difficult and give a you stress and anxiety.
It doesn't help that I have a difficult youth as well, because that's what professionals will focus on automatically and pin all your problems on. I've had help for trauma. It improved some things. Many important things it did not improve.
These twitter virtue signallers don't actually wanna help anyone, they just criticize someone who does and pat themselves on their backs to "appear" empathetic and moralistic. When I in the depths of my depression, these types of "positivity" freaks would be the exact people I'd avoid cuz quotes don't fix your life.
EXACTLY. These people don't truly care about anyone nor have they spent a second of their fking lives trying to do so.
And i 100% agree with you. When I was totally depressed, this type of positive assertion is the WORST thing to hear.
"I hate my life because it sucks". "No, you're wrong. It doesn't suck. Stop hating it". Completely useless and in fact, it left in a much worse position after. I would feel so shitty that I exposed myself and the person wouldn't even listen to me.
Social media encourages people to be know-it-alls
You’re the man, Dr. k!! You’ve helped tens of thousands or millions of people! The internet will always overreact and be stupid.
Dr.K you’ve helped me so much. I’ve become a completely different person . I’ve been studying your content and other sources for a year. I can now see what I need to improve and the progress I still need to make within myself and my life itself. Thank you so much. I hope this doesn’t sound burdensome but you are my role model. I believe your message will continue to grow like a snowball and make positive impact for the whole world going forward, continuing to grow in the future, by the people you’ve helped and educated. Thank you.
Thank you for seeing us Dr.K. SLS is a real thing. Sometimes we are dealt very bad cards in life. Doesn't mean there is no hope, it just means the diagnosis has to be correct for the therapists to help us.
I'm a woman but I've just got an insight that I was raised in a family where women played the role of men as men were generally considered to be weak or incapable and therefore not necessary as part of the family. So I faced the same problems that Dr.K discribes for men - being unable to ask for help, unaware of my emotions, feeling like a loser because of the unablity to stay strong and independent and reach "success". I had a period of deep depression with suicidal thoughts and can fully relate to the despair of not being able to socially belong and feeling alone. The interesting thing is that now as I am in touch with my emotions (and even got education as an actress) I feel like I also require instrumental support to fix my life.
Same here in terms of sucidal thoughts and being in touch with feelings.
Just except I'm a man but was raised in a totally dysfunctional family with cheating father jealous big brother who emotionally abused me, and my father having cancer for 2-3 years and then dying at my 21s, so basically I've had to support from emotionally to financially myself during my college years, and I lived far from the city, because it was the cheapest thing I could rent. So, I was literally alone, with my feelings, in the middle of nowhere. The only thing I've had around was sea at 50m in front and a forest at the back not even many neighbors except 1 and only.
I've have had also multiple times suicidality due to my sht-life-syndrome, but also learned how to bend those emotions and meditated and got in touch with them and accepted them.
I know I'm suicidal and always feel lonely, but I also know that I've been able to support this situation at least until now and I hope I can just keep going and be in touch with my emotions.
Like, I can't just "prevent my brain" from thinking "eh this life is worthless and too painful why even live". It's just how my brain makes me think and my logical self tries to nurture and bend these emotions due to education I'm always seeking and try to have education by like watching ... Dr K's videos who have taught me a ton lot. Or read papers and such.
It helped me more than any direct therapist would give me.
And I know this because I've tried therapy.
Psychotherapy has just so many bad fruits in it that just judge you and dismiss your feelings and tell you to "just read a book" when what I want is a f'ing hug not another self-help/improvement/literature book or tell you how you should feel instead of acknowledging you.
@@exapsy Please keep going! I know how painful it is to deal with deep loneliness when it seems like you are completely by yourself and there's nowhere to go for help. I'm happy that despite all that you are here and continue fighting for yourself. I'm sending you hugs (though I know it can't be compaired with real ones).
@@yk4920 virtual hugs appreciated, sending back hugs too!
Well you discovered how many men feel, which I am one of them. I don't know how my life will end but I am 50% alive 50% dead mentally. I have enough chances and reasons to not live for. Im too tired of feeling lonely and existing obliged just to work.
@@YukiNakamura I'm very sorry to hear that. That sounds very tough to deal with. I'd like to support you, if that's what you would like. Or if you just wanted to share you experience and let it all out without expecting a response, that's ok too.
I was so stoked to see you on the DOAC podcast. Sad that people are taking your clip out of context, misunderstood, misinterpreted, whatever like I said sad. I've been watching that and your channel for some time because I find them very helpful for my undergrad studies. I plan on becoming a clinical psychologist, I want to specialise in addiction. Your book is fantastic, I'm only three chapters in and I'm already blown away, it's up there with realm of hungry ghosts. Glad to see you're back at it already dropping the knowledge for all the wonderful people that follow your channel and even for the ingrates that don't. When I saw Asmongold's reaction video I was pissed, the fact that people would assume the worst of such a good dude beggars belief.
I hate to say it but DOAC is kinda a part of the problem of clipping and over sensationalizing. Don't get me wrong, it's not a terrible podcast, the interviewer is good and they get an interesting mix of guests. But as a channel it absolutely does go for clickbait and even ragebait at times.
@@Hemlocker spot on -- I don't get it -- quality guests but clickbait garbage that distracts from the guest messages and the conversations' depth.. I just can't trust DOAC when it acts like a tabloid every chance it gets
@@Hemlocker I agree, it's probably my only gripe with it though.
Hi Dr K!
I haven't had the time to watch this video yet, but I see some pretty fierce comments around here. I just wanted to let you know that you're doing an awesome job, and I appreciate you for taking the time to get into sensitive topics that some (clearly, a lot of people) aren't as comfortable discussing. You are a good man, and I hope you don't succumb to the idea of censoring your speech in any way in the future. Clear, concise, and HONEST. That's what I like about you. Stay you.
At fifteen i attempted suicide one night thinking i would never wake up again, i was so scared to be alone once i thought it was too late. Waking up the next morning, i was filled with so much self hate and relief at the same time. Honestly things only got worse once i was put in the hospital, that place was hell. I didn’t get any better until i met my now fiancée who’s changed my whole world. I don’t even know why I’m sharing this but telling my story even if i didn’t get better on my own, i hope it gives someone some hope that they can survive too. It really does get better, i told myself it never would but it really got better, i feel better than ever now and anyone reading this feeling like they can’t keep going can survive too. Only going up from here. I believe in yall.
That was a sweet thing to write 🤗and it did make me feel a better.
Can we please get an emotional support Alok plush toy, preferably with real hair? It could say "how do you feel about that?", "can I think for a second?", "bazically". To think that Alok has had to respond to these critisms is a shame, he's such a wonderful person. A true hero of the internet
I really want that now. I doubt Dr. K will ever consider it though because of all the potential repercussions it could have, like being called greedy or people putting the plush in a jar
Real hair? Lol. fr tho, having a variety of animals that say his signature lines in their voices would be lovely.
Alok plush toy with voice box cant be that hard to make, ima try when i can go hit the dollar store
Ringtone "how do you feel about that" and you go on to pic it up "SHIT, SHUT UP"
This would do great with the Shirt I am yet to print myself: "I don't believe in you because whatever the Fuck. I believe in you because of Physics" - Dr. K
Thank you Dr. k 🫶
This is the most enlightened perspective on human suffering and suicide that Ive ever heard in my life.
My favorite message from this whole thing " this is a co-op mission, find people to help!. Great message overall.
When you feel like there’s nothing worth living for and people say that you are wrong, it somehow makes it even worse. It makes me feel even more broken because I just can’t see it at all
I just wanted to say thank you. You've really helped a person today.
I loved this presentation, so, so, much. Thank you Dr K.
It’s the best when others can feel and discuss such topics with the detail in which you have done. XO
31:53 I want to say thank you. As someone you has been through hell and spent most of my teenage years in hospitals and homes and has now completely changed my life around living such a happy and fulfilling life let me tell you: I’ve had over 10 therapists and the only ones who truly got through to me (I admit I was hard to get through to) were the ones who had this exact same approach. The first time I ever felt understood and felt like it was worth trying was when my therapist (as hard as it sounds) said: well in your situation I’d probably feel suicidal too, but I will never allow you and I will help you.
You have to see: anything other than validation would have made me closed off again. At a point where you’re suicidal, you can reason as much as you want you will only make the patient even more miserable because they feel like: not even this professional understands me.
Thank you a lot for this :)
@HealthyGamerGG
I watched the part about needing peer supporters in the realm of suicidality. I’ve spent 22 years with depression and chronic (I.e., daily) suicidal ideation, and 12 of those years actively troubleshooting it. After everything I’ve studied and reasoned, reconceptualizing suicidal thoughts+impulses as ‘tools’ of the mind, rather than something I actually want, has turned the most torturous piece of myself into one of the most useful companions for troubleshooting everything else. I’m now looking for ways to make use of the knowledge and experience I’ve accumulated to perhaps show someone they’re not alone and that there is, in fact, a way through the miasma. The problem is that this is SUCH a heavy topic for most people, including for professionals, that I don’t know where someone like me can actually be of use…
I haven't even watched this yet.. I respect this channel and the creator of it. My son died from his mental health struggle.. In the last days\months of his life I somehow had to come to terms with the fact that this may happen. We all did what we could at the time. Which was obviously "not enough". The struggle is real.. Its not easy for anyone suffering on any side of suicide. While I am not advocating for suicide at all (I do hope that better sources of mental and spiritual healthcare become more readily available to us all and I hope that our society and cultures will change in ways that support the human endeavour with more grace and love)... I can't help but remember what my sweet spirited and beautiful daughter said to her dearly depared brother, my beautiful son, upon arriving at the place where he hung himself.. She said " brother, I am so proud of you. For taking full control of your existence ". . there is a strength and fearlessness that we do not understand. This is something I will contemplate for many years trying to grasp and understand.. .so now, after having this in my " watch later" playlist for quite some rime, unable to bring myself to watch it.. I will listen and hear with love, respect and from a heart of non judgement
Wow " diseases of dispair" what an interesting perspective
I understand what he said in the video but for sometimes i feel like we are in too deep and there's nothing we can do to help it. Sometimes you just want that tireness and endless exhausting feeling to stop.
Thank you for your content, Dr.K!
You're helping a lot more people than just those that visit your practice. All over the world.
I'm one of those dudes that has a family, a carreer, decent quality of life... but I can't help but think if it's *my* life that I'm living. If I *want* to do this job (but can't quit because I depend on the income). If I really love my family, or I just got used to them. Gets rather depressing from time to time, I have the urge to just say "I've had enough, f*** everything", file the divorce papers and move somewhere quiet and live a peaceful life solo... but you give me a lot of food for thought, and perspective.
"So what I'm gonna do is react to the reactions, because as I understand that's how that works" HE'S ONTO THE SECRETS
Thank for all you do Dr. K
Your videos have helped me a lot throughout the years.
I'd like to propose the root cause for SLS, it's called SWS (shit world syndrome).
The example about this guy creating all these excuses of why getting better is impossible, is just because he doesn't want to.
For a long time I've tried my best finding my place in the world, and how I've felt about the theoretical life prospects is "it's just not for me". I guess it's another way of saying "I hate the world and would rather die than live in it". And there is actually a massive stigma for this kind of opinion. It's judged as edgy and immature, and if you think like that, there must be something wrong with you. But why? It's just my honest opinion. I feel like I'm being gaslit by people who want to avoid confronting the problem.
I'm all for helping people to cope, but there's only so much you can do to trick yourself into loving life. If I've gone through the full course of professional help, sorted through all (or at least most) the potential biases and mental traps, I feel like I understand myself well, and still don't feel it, then where's the problem?
If society has changed a lot and it has lead to increasing number of men not wanting to live anymore, maybe it's actually the world's fault and it's the world that needs to change.
This is exactly it. It's slightly touched on a few times in the video: bad economic conditions and the expectations of men fitting into an overall hyper-individualistic culture based around the myth of meritocracy. Humans have created an anti-human world via capitalism and are now confused as to why it's so miserable to live in. We're not built for this shit; we're social animals who literally need each other to thrive. In every instance, we do better through cooperation to meet our collective needs than we do competing with each other.
I am a man who has struggled with suicidal thoughts for over a decade despite seeking therapy and anti depressants while using self help books on emotional mastery. I have been diagnosed with a combination of autism, OCD, anxiety, depression, and ptsd. I'll spare you the details of my life. I just wanted to thank you for your efforts to help people like me.
Let's goooooo Dr. K!!!!! 💪💪💪
I might be wrong, but I have this hint that people who attacked those statements, haven't experienced the thing Dr K was talking about. Because for me this was the most obvious thing about a sub group of suicidal people. In fact if you are in this group, hearing that yes, you are right, your life really sucks and I see how hard it is for you, is the best help one can get. Hearing people trying to prove to you that your life is worth living while you feel like you are in hell only makes you feel more hopeless because you simply cannot connect with this worth people see. Telling this person you believe them is liberating and gives you a point from which you can start getting better. Because yes, your life sucks. But you can fix it and I will help you with that.
It's starting where someone is.
I have had intrusive thoughts a couple of times now and fortunately fought them off. Was about to call ER but first messaged every person I thought I can simply talk to. I am blessed to have some people in life who help me to pick up myself and continue to move forward. I hope one day I can be the same for others in need. I appreciate your talks and they do provide a lot of food for thought, thank you for doing what you do.
My father attempted and successfully took his own life a decade later... my childhood was kinda wild. He could balance a football on top of his head. 😅 I thought it was a cool trick as a kid. I think of myself as a semi professional on the subject because I've wrestled that same snake, and it still hasn't managed to bite me yet. Stop hating yourself... Stop hating the decisions you've made, your depression will fade, Stop hating your future self, the anxiety and self sabotage will fade, do not envy your future self success and happiness, know he is happy and you will one day experience his happiness if you stop doing things to punish him, and stop hating your current self. And your loneliness will fade.
Now I just gotta address the trauma that I've normalized (I'm just now realizing not everybody is raised by a fther with brain damage and severe psychological problems and thar we weren't all spanked on the face at 5 years old) but I will find a way through it. I don't have the choice to do what other are doing and screaming at the snake.
Thank you, Doctor K, for your videos, they've taught me so much. I was really lacking in self-awareness and a sense of spirit within.
I feel like childhood trauma makes us feel alone, then we realize that our situation isn't as unique as we thought. It should be comforting, but it made me more angry. More people than just myself went through this? Fuck. I think one of the most powerful things Dr. K says (maybe not in this video, but in others) is: "You are now an adult and have the power to be the person you were meant to be." The power he talks about, I think, is the freedom to choose a new route. Therapy gave me new tools, ones my parents should have given me but didn't, and I'm a more genuine and functional person with the new tools.
Stop hating yourself and everything about yourself is actually really good advice! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
My condolences to your father Nicolas. May he Rest in Peace.
@Darknight526 that's the thing with suicide... that's kinda a weird thing to say. He wanted to not exist here any more, and got what he made happen... he wanted control, and to not feel powerless in this world, he chose to rebel against the universes desire for him to exist. The condolences should go to my mother, my sister, and every person that they or I have interacted with since, since none of those people have gotten to experience our full selves since. Three bright beacons of personality, one drank herself to death, one works from home and won't leave her room.... and me.... I've lost everything, cant keep a job, I'll be homeless next week.... but I'm gonna figure it out. And I'm not gonna quit.... suicide is different because I'm not crying for him, I'm crying for myself, I'm not angry at god because he won't be able to experience my children's lives I'm angry at him because he chose not to.
I can't say I didn't make it in spite of him. He had a second chance, and chose to upgrade from .22 to .44. The hurt and grief he caused has magnified so much.... my sister isn't the mother she could be, my mom leaves behind three more children who now suffer too. All he had to do was exist... if my take is a little harsh, I'm glad. Anybody who's dealing with ideation. Should know the dark side of it.. you cannot end "yourself" you continue to exist on, in people's minds and actions, you just lost your share of control.
Thank you for the thoughtful explanation Alok, it must have been very hard for you to wait all this time to opening up. I can see your passion, thanks
2:06:02 I don't think the problem is that we need more suicidal people to use their experience to talk people out of depression. There's a lot of people already doing that already. The thing we really need is people, like the people in the video on Twitter, who know nothing about suicide and depression to shut the fuck up and get out of the way so people who actually know what they're doing can actually help these people.
I think a lot of depressed people could do an amazing job of helping people, but they're scared to lend their knowledge because they constantly get the idea from these Twitter mental health warriors that every single thing a depressed person can do to another depressed person would make them more suicidal. Ironically, the people who say this stuff are usually cited more as reasons people want to kill themselves than other depressed people.
20min into the vid. Im speaking from a man who has 3 kids, works 7 days a week, has 2 days off a year.
I'm on the verge of letting go of life & having peace. I agree 💯 with what you're saying.. Seeing no future & only seeing the same struggles & pain makes you think why! What's the point of life, to struggle, to survive day to day, to work until you can't, then die? When this is what you see as a future, letting go sounds so good.
I personally look forward to something. the day i don't have to think or feel, the day I'm erased😊
Holy shit man, working 7 days a week and being a father is huge! I don't think I could do that. Good on you for putting that kind of effort in, that's strength! I hope I can pull that off if my kids ever need that
Im showing support for this because its such an important subject many people dont talk about in a way that makes sense to everuone.
Its changed youtube algorithm for sure, because now theres actual community post memes about men and suicide popping up too, and that was before i watched this.
Something I learned from having a dark time in my life and being in a household that didn’t allow me to have control over anything including what food I ate daily and clothing as well. You will get through it. You will change and get fed up with stuff, relationships end and new ones begin, and you will have experiences to look back on and think “I lived through that”. Having the mentality that things will get better and doing little things (even basic hygiene) will help you figure out what you can handle and what you can’t. Sometimes those things will become daily tasks you don’t even think about anymore and others are things you change to figure out how to be more comfortable with yourself and in your life. This is just my past experience and I know it doesn’t pertain to everyone. I hope everyone who reads this has a good day.
I think for many people, especially those who live in poverty, are part of a marginalized demographic and the working class, many of us can fall into that group of people where we can come to the objective conclusion that our lives have no meaning and are not worth living.
Speaking as a person who grew up on a reservation in the United States, when your life is surrounded by reminders that your culture is meaningless that you are a pest that you are "in the way" that your life is less valuable, you begin to believe it. And it is why my tribe is plagued by some of the highest suicide rates in the entire country. And, it is also why politics are important. Its never a fun subject to talk about, but people who are beaten down by the system are more likely to succumb to suicidal ideation, and lose their lives to preventable things that people "don't care about" or believe are "too much to think about". For many of us, these "not fun things" are not something we get the chance to ignore. We aren't allowed to forget. This isn't something that we can fix for ourselves, at least without the help of compassionate people.
So, please try to love each other, please try to care for one another, and please try to extend your grace to those who aren't able to fight alone, both with their mental health but also their material conditions and socioeconomic positions. Find it in your heart to care.
I enjoyed the conversation and didn't notice anything wrong.
Actually at the very last you brought me to tears because I've had experiences in dreams I can't explain since I was a kid about past lives.
So thank you 🤗
Every human has their own unique talents. Beware of the trap of comparing ourselves to our peers who appear to have it all. Thank you Dr K, this subject needs to talked about more often. ❤
Based on what he said, I had a turning point a couple years ago. I'm still not fully happy, but i am feeling a lot better than 6 or 7 years ago. Back then I was studying something I wasn't feeling passionate about, my relationship was about to crash, my friendships felt hollow and I felt lost. At the time, when I ended up alone and marched down a path into self-destruction, I was EXTREMELY fortunate to have a small group of people that helped me. That, combined with luck choosing a better careerpath, stronger friendships and a better relationship, lead to me kinda swerving into a better lane.
I still have doubt and I'm still not 100% good. I especially identify with that feeling of "I'm not a good person, I should do better". I go to therapy and it helps. However, there's still stuff I have to do to really be the best I can.
A key take away is that many people have a vasana that going to therapy or acute dark or painful thoughts are only for people with mental health disorders. Even the supposed happiest person on the planet can benefit from an occasional therapy session or meditation. And if you feel like you need therapy that does not automatically mean you are sick. EVERYONE can benefit from talking to a professional.
2:06:53 you made me think about the TV series Monk who had a nurse. A professional figure who supports the patient outside the office. You're such a great doctor. 🙏
I thought about it a few weeks ago. What made me change was thinking about how people I like would suffer if I did it.
yuuuuuuuup
Every time you want to do or accomplish something, your mind will be the first entity that will tell you to give up and come up with reasons not to do it. This saved my life, I don't listen to my mind anymore, I listen to me (the true self)
Starts at 4:44
absolute chad, thank you 😊😊
What I was looking for, thanks!
Im glad someone already put the skip on the video. Still thanks for the timestamp.
@@loghanishere8446 Gamers when asked to chill out for four minutes:
That's a neat start time.
Been feeling a similar way lately, it’s getting worse bc of my inability to find a girlfriend, some say “tinder or online” yet I have, then my “friends” tell me to not approach at all, let her “come to you”, never works, on top of it all, have to deal with legal shit that I don’t need so it ruins my self esteem, they say that you have to “go and get what you want” right?
I’ve been living by Stockton CA for years with grandparents since moving after Covid, now I’m stuck, can’t move away, can’t room with anyone right now, all the people here are either taken or don’t want me or don’t say it, I’ve been waking up alone for years, that’s my reason for wanting to pursue this route and each time I hear the passing of the train a 5 minute walk from my room I always wonder what will be the day to send me over…
On top of dealing with family I genuinely don’t want to be around anymore, it’s not STABLE for a young adult to live with elders, if anyone else does idk how the FK they do it but when I was younger it was “fine”, now that time passed I see how insane this is.
I can't tell you anything other than: you're not alone with this. The more desperate one is for companionship, the harder it gets to find companionship. Women smell that stuff miles away and avoid such men. It's a vicious cycle but no one wants someone that is needy. I don't know how to fix it...just...deal with it somehow?
@@mr.nobody2244 it’s funny, I’m sitting here watching another trash video that says “low quality men get a lot of girls” which ISS VERY TRUE, for SOME, but I could still choose to sit here and do nothing or I can spent the next few hours at a bar til close and TEST my luck, by no means am I not afraid to try, I tried today a few times, might go again. It really never changes sitting in this house, and I’m sooo off into the rural fields that a drive to just see anyone else besides my family in this place is at least 10 minutes on its own, I can’t stand those long moments in between.
I have been dealing with it, over 3 years now.
It’s called DISASSOCIATING😈❤️
2:06:02
This!
❤Golden❤️
This really sets with me
Thank You
Paraphrasing..
"Peer Support. We don't have survivors to show the rest of us how to survive. We need YOU. We need a crop of people to get through what you gone through then go out and help"
So dissapointing to see Dr K being attacked, cause people can’t read between lines and just want to be mad.
As someone who focused on mental health and social work in my undergrad, I'm so glad you are framing this as a realistic symptom of larger social problems that can be fixed. Deaths of despair are a real thing, and are based on external factors.
Idiots on twitter spend all day seeking shit to be triggered and angry about. Taking things out of context and not using any critical thinking is pretty much the norm. Dr. K has helped millions of people become better versions of themselves throughout these years and that will never change.
Thank you this helped me feel better about myself. It's easy to deflect and trivialize it to yourself but I guess the most important thing is how YOU feel about your life. With humans adapting to circumstances, I do wonder if someone in a stable country with 3 meals a day can feel as bad as someone in a less stable country simply because of adaptation. Even now I want to reflexively reject it.
You've experienced the isolation and expectations. It feels like be useful or go away. Everyone will clamor that that's not true, but its definitely what is reflected back in media constantly. If it's not true then we should probably stop putting it in everything. And after experiencing it and in some ways moving past it you want to drag it out kicking and screaming and be like "LOOK AT THIS. WE NEED TO WORK ON THIS TOO.". We gotta work on it for everyone's benefit including women's.
Be useful or go away. We get problems thrown at us but there's no real help solving it. Then people will say men love the challenge and the competition. More like whelp I'm stuck in this and it's do or die guess I gotta figure something out. Sure as shit isn't fun... And you better not complain about it that's weakness. Fix problem be useful be a man or go away and they'll find someone else.
That's so mentally dangerous - the belief that all men need to be tough and competitive or they're not "real men". I've known non-American men who aren't competitive because it's not considered masculine to be competitive in the culture they're from.
It's also unhealthy for men to feel like they have to hold in their pain and not complain or vent. Women don't deal with this toxicity as much. If a woman complains she's likely to get sympathy. Instead of competing, women are expected to relate to one another and build each other up.
So I'm 40 minutes in, and you're talking about the destiny clip...
My answer is "It literally does not matter."
It literally does not matter whether there's nothing there, or there's something there that is extremely difficult to diagnose. In EITHER case, the only way to even approach it clinically is to find out how to find common ground with someone that, in general, doesn't show the characteristics of a diagnosable condition. in EITHER CASE, there is still this 50%-60% of people that NEED to be approached in a different way that we are FAILING TO ACCOUNT FOR.
Or 37 to 66 percent as it was put a minute or two later. I'm talking about that same group of people.
As a man wicht had been literally in the edge of a building,thinking that I nothing good in my life to keep going.
I can only say that I was there because the way some people treated me (racism,parents always putting me down a bad relationship, etcetera ) like shit I do not consider myself mentally ill or anything, circumstances can put you in that position. I was lucky enough to have someone in my life when I was younger to give me a strong mentality to be able to step back and say to myself that I'll get better,and it has gotten better today I know my self better and really at peace with everything I have been through.
Today, I can say that all that happened for me and to me,I hope I'm blessed enough to be able to help as much as I possibly can someone else with those experiences. I thank Dr. K for letting us know that we are not alone 😊
i love u Dr K. you're so important for society we find ourselves in. keep fighting warriors. SLS is not forever
Thanks for this stream. For all the reasons that were brought up, one I didn't see which has been my personal challenge, was a sense of purpose, idk even know where to begin with it. Keep up the good fight!
when he says you gotta therapist shop i just shrug because not only is there no therapists the charities that step in are completely inequipped to handle any mental health condition
Even being just one solid person to listen and hear you while you speak it out and think.
It helps.
Arguably it can be more damaging there's evidence to suggest that just talking about your problems can keep you stuck there's a difference between good and bad therapy
Having been suicidal in the past, empathizing with the patient an validating their view of their situation would definitely have helped me more than telling me I just see things the wrong way. Being validated makes you feel seen -- like you have a right to feel this way (that you absolutely do) -- and will be part of helping you move on.