I just stumbled across your channel. I thoroughly enjoyed this video and plan to explore more. I searched and discovered you have never reacted to Linda Ronstadt!!😢She ruled throughout the 1970’s. She was the first female to sell out arenas and other huge venues. Please choose one of her live performances and you will see why everyone loves her voice. She’s also gorgeous to look at 😂. Good luck with your channel. 🌸✌️
Just found your channel. This song has always been mentioned whenever someone brings up the greatest rock n roll song of all time. While I noticed it is difficult to find the truth about Terry Kath's death, as it is listed as accidentally shooting himself, actually he was playing Russian Roulette, something he was well known for, and lost. Peter Cetera talked about it one time in an interview.
One of many things about Terry was his ability to establish solo patterns the band could contribute to. This created endless magical grooves. His rhythmic gift was extraordinary.
A reporter asked Jimi Hendrix "What is it like to be the best guitars in the world"? His response was "Don't know but the next time I see Terry Kath I'll ask him".
Terry Kath was the main reason why Jimi Hendrix invited them to tour, but he did like the whole big band sound. Jimi had played with Little Richard and James Browns big bands. Terry & Danny on drums were the star musicians. Two of the best of the 70's.
Glad you mentioned Danny. Buddy Rich who quite famously didn’t give any drummer praise was asked, I’m guessing you don’t like any of the modern drummers coming up? Rich responded “actually the guy from Chicago is pretty good.” Chicago was blessed with the best of the best in the Chicago music scene which made them one hugely talented band.
There's a story that Hendrix saw them play, and commented to their manager, "you're guitarist is awesome, people tell me I'm pretty good, but that guys doing things I can't do!"
The song is about staying up all night trying to finish a song and not having much luck. The title means 25 or 26 until four o'clock in the morning. Guitar - Terry Kath, Bass - Peter Cetera, keyboards - Robert Lamm. Kath, Cetera and Lamm all sany leads basically on the songs they wrote, with an occasional change in the singer. Kath die early, word from several bandmates is that he was cleaning his pistol that he forgot to remove the ammo from and it went off killing him. There is a documentary about him I think it's still on RUclips in which his daughter who was 2 yo at the time of his death was looking for an old guiltar of his.
Chicago is a band that has many different sounds! This was 70's Chicago with Peter Cetera singing. Yes, that was Terry Cath on guitar and that was the extended version of the song that you heard. Radio version did not have guitar solo. Radio stations really only wanted to play songs no longer than 3 to 4 minutes in length, IMO. Thanks for the reactions!
An Absolute BEAST HENDRIX was mesmerized by Terry, thought he was the best, and while watching him play, commented it appeared Terry was playing backwards ❤🎉
Jimi Hendrix wanted to produce a solo album on Terry Kath, but died before it could happen. In one interview, Jimi stated that Kath was "better than me."
Unbelievable and this was LIVE . I heard them live in early 1970,s. They sounded like the record. No in ear monitors,no auto tune, just unbridled talent .Thats Peter Cetera singing the lead vocal.
@@jacquescousteau217 that’s what I love about this decade. Unbelievably great music. No filters. No auto tune. Just HAD to be great. I was 5 when this video was taken. Still can quit listening to it. Three dog night. Bob seger. The greats.
Terry Kath was with a bandmate when he picked up one of his two handguns. He said that the gun was empty and pointed it at his head…the rest is history.
Chicago was outstanding. Excellent musicians & song writing. After Kath died they were never the same. They still tour with a few of the guys, but without Kath and Cetera ...different vibe.
Wow... those guys didn't drop one tone-arm on vinyl, either! They actually played EVERY sound they produced... this must be a real treat for folks who consider skritching records to be their 'art.' Listing instruments? Yes... on their albums.
I saw Chicago in 1982 when I was 12 years old! Saw them on a college campus for $8! Pre 80’s Chicago was a phenomenal band. After their guitarist, Terry Kath, died at age 30 something playing around with a gun he thought was unloaded the band just seemed to lose the magic they had in their early days.
Yeah... after that, they might have still been a good band, but they weren't nearly as interesting a band as they were before. And it wasn't just the loss of Kath. Use of the brass section became much less a feature of their music in later years.
If Jimi Hendrix was a huge fan hes gotta be good. Jimi said he saw music as colours not genres and all people as his people. He really was a starchild 🌟
Go dig up their debut album when they were known as The Chicago Transit Authority and play these two tracks: "Introduction" and "Poem 58". Guitar player Terry Kath wrote "Introduction" and sang lead vocals. He was called "The White Ray Charles" by his bandmates. Soulful baritone voice! "Poem 58" is nine minutes of PURE FUNK led by Terry Kath on guitar, Danny Seraphine on drums, and Peter Cetera on bass. Kath's guitar will have you needing an ice pack for your jaw after you pick it up from the floor! ruclips.net/video/j8aJiLUaWGI/видео.html When they were "The Chicago Transit Authority", they were the house band at the Whisky a Go Go in LA. One night between sets, Jimi Hendrix, who was in the audience, went to their dressing room after catching their first set. He walked up to their sax player Walt Parazaider and said, "You guys have a horn section that sounds like one set of lungs and a guitar player that's better than me! You wanna go on the road?" They said "YEAH!". And that's how they became Hendrix's opening act on a national arena tour.
Although throughout the years Chicago has had many members, the musicians in this video are the classic lineup. Each one of these guys was/is a super talented and accomplished musician. I saw Chicago several times, but my first time was at the Warehouse in New Orleans around April 1970 just 3 months before this show. Same lineup, same awesome performance.
@@monicaslonaker7605I was quoting what the AI I query gave me the answer. Pointing this out made me believe it was most likely Eric Clapton. Let me ask Co- Pilot says again. I may ask another AI. I have been folding clothes and it took all this time. (I have a broken shoulder and and no doctor's permission to do laundry, LOL) So now I am really interested. I mean that sincerely. My daughter says I don't come across any way but snarky; so I apologize in advance.
@@justtere no worries at all!! I come across the same way I tore two tendons in my rotator cuff once I had never been so excited in my life as when I could flip a light switch again happy healing!
Hey, I grew up in Fort Worth and was in high school beginning in 1969 when I started listening to Chicago. They were hot shit. Different from other great bands of the time with their use of horns but could rock with the best of them. Listen to their first album titled Chicago Transit Authority. You will be blown away. It's a shame Terry Kath died in a plane crash at such a young age. Jimi Hendrix considered him the greatest guitar player of their time. Steve S
I grew up with Chicago...you should try Saturday in The Park by Chicago....saw them last year in Northern California. Thunder Valley Amphitheatre...it was great...RIP Terry Kath...
Hello. I'm glad you like this. I would recommend Leonid & Friends, a Russian band that covers Chicago excellently. They have several videos here on YT. They also have covers of Blood Sweat & Tears as well as Earth Wind & Fire. They have toured the USA several times.
Remember, on more than one occasion, people would go up to Hendrix and say, "You are the best guitar player." Every time, Jimi replied, "No, Terry Kath is the best guitar player."
You have to do another one of this band. To give you a recommendation for another song. They had some really great ones in their repertoire that I can't think of a single one to suggest. They were one of those bands that they didn't release. Okay, try Your the Inspiration. Amazing song. Eric Clapton supposedly said this to the question, “I don’t know. Ask Prince.” However, it’s important to note that this quote has been widely circulated but is not confirmed to have been actually said by Clapton12. It’s a testament to the high Sorry that's all the AI I asked would let me copy. So thanks (that is an honest opinion) for the rabbit hole I plan to follow this afternoon. I sincerely mean that as a compliment.
@@RedRoosterParty Yes, I DO believe it WAS an accident. Gun WAS loaded. Reminds me of Jon-Erik Hexum's accident. He was bored on the set of "Cover Up" TV series The wadding from the blanks damaged his brain. His co-star, Meeno Peluce from "Voyagers" really took it hard. They had worked together on the time travel series before this.
Right, does not need quotations! I was lucky to have a big sister who worked at a record shop. I was around 10 years old & l was hooked! Listening to them always makes me think of summer.
@@robertacolarette1594 agreed. But Dawayne Bailey gave them an edge they hadn’t had before. Shouldn’t have messed with Wales daughter I hear. Just glad to see him there awhile after he left Seger.
The whiskey, the Roxy, the troubadour, the rainbow room…… Every group and musician alive played on the Sunset strip. Almost every weekend from 1974 to 1984… I was there. During the week I was LA lifeguard. I’m glad everyone didn’t have cell phones back then to record it!!! Questionable and reckless behavior I’d rather not have my grandkids see👍
listen to: Asaf Avidan - Reckoning Song (Live At The Acropolis 2022) Or (Suggested by Ren👇) Asaf Avidan - In A Box III - Rock of Lazarus you won't regret!!
Robert Lamb is the keyboard player Peter cetera is the bass player singer Terry Kath is p in which Jimi Hendrix p what's the best guitar he's ever seen
🔥 🔥 🔥
I just stumbled across your channel. I thoroughly enjoyed this video and plan to explore more. I searched and discovered you have never reacted to Linda Ronstadt!!😢She ruled throughout the 1970’s. She was the first female to sell out arenas and other huge venues. Please choose one of her live performances and you will see why everyone loves her voice. She’s also gorgeous to look at 😂. Good luck with your channel. 🌸✌️
Just found your channel. This song has always been mentioned whenever someone brings up the greatest rock n roll song of all time. While I noticed it is difficult to find the truth about Terry Kath's death, as it is listed as accidentally shooting himself, actually he was playing Russian Roulette, something he was well known for, and lost. Peter Cetera talked about it one time in an interview.
RIP Terry Kath. One of the greatest guitarists we will ever lay eyes and ears on...
Kath was one of the greatest rock guitarists of all time.
Jimi Hendrix referred to Terry as the one guitarist he didn’t want to follow…Hendrix called him “the greatest of our time” in 1968
Probably one of the best ever. Damn shame how he passed away. Loved him!
Vocally, he always wanted to be the “white Ray Charles”. Lol
@@jrogersdal check out Cory wells’ blue eyed soul. ruclips.net/video/c43YWd1UcK8/видео.htmlsi=o5iqDYPZupWh-2lR
No Doubt, He was just incredible ❤ One of a kind.🎉🎉🎉
You have now witnessed what is widely considered one of the greatest live solos of all time. Taken from us way too young. RIP guitar master!!!
Got that right!
One of many things about Terry was his ability to establish solo patterns the band could contribute to. This created endless magical grooves. His rhythmic gift was extraordinary.
A reporter asked Jimi Hendrix "What is it like to be the best guitars in the world"? His response was "Don't know but the next time I see Terry Kath I'll ask him".
there's always one 😆
Robert Lamm is on Keyboards. Peter Cetera is on bass and vocals for this one. "Make Me Smile" is another great live one from the Tanglewood concert.
Peter Cetera lead vocals on this song. Terry Kath lead guitar. Terry Kath also sang lead vocals, as well as Robert Lamb (keyboard).
Terry Kath was the main reason why Jimi Hendrix invited them to tour, but he did like the whole big band sound. Jimi had played with Little Richard and James Browns big bands. Terry & Danny on drums were the star musicians. Two of the best of the 70's.
Glad you mentioned Danny. Buddy Rich who quite famously didn’t give any drummer praise was asked, I’m guessing you don’t like any of the modern drummers coming up? Rich responded “actually the guy from Chicago is pretty good.” Chicago was blessed with the best of the best in the Chicago music scene which made them one hugely talented band.
Terrry such a big guy he makes the guitar 🎸 look tiny like one of those play guitars you buy for a kid at Walmart!! Damn what a Guitarist!!
Terry Kath was a phenomenal player
Terry Kath in my opinion for what it's worth the best pure rock guitar picker.
Agreed, add in his soulful voice then you have a Ledgen.........sad day in the winter of 1978.
There's a story that Hendrix saw them play, and commented to their manager, "you're guitarist is awesome, people tell me I'm pretty good, but that guys doing things I can't do!"
Saw them about 6 months ago. Robert Lamm (keyboards), Lee Loughnane (trumpet), and James Pankow (trombone) are the original members still in the band.
@@jlocke78759 glad you were able to see them!!
Really ? I had no idea he was still touring . How was the show. I heard them during this period in the early 1970,s.
Are they still touring with Earth Wind & Fire? Such an incredible show regardless
When they Say your name at end of performance you own it Terry Kath !!
Terry Kath is a BEAST on guitar!!!❤❤❤
The band at one time was named "The Chicago Transit Authority" but due to legal problems they shortend the name to "Chicago"
The song is about staying up all night trying to finish a song and not having much luck. The title means 25 or 26 until four o'clock in the morning. Guitar - Terry Kath, Bass - Peter Cetera, keyboards - Robert Lamm. Kath, Cetera and Lamm all sany leads basically on the songs they wrote, with an occasional change in the singer. Kath die early, word from several bandmates is that he was cleaning his pistol that he forgot to remove the ammo from and it went off killing him. There is a documentary about him I think it's still on RUclips in which his daughter who was 2 yo at the time of his death was looking for an old guiltar of his.
I saw them when they were still Chicago Transit Authority. LOL
Terry Kath. The one guy who made Jimi Hendrix nervous.
Terry Kath played lead and rhythm guitar simultaneously while also singing lead vocals on other hits!!!!
Chicago is a band that has many different sounds! This was 70's Chicago with Peter Cetera singing. Yes, that was Terry Cath on guitar and that was the extended version of the song that you heard. Radio version did not have guitar solo. Radio stations really only wanted to play songs no longer than 3 to 4 minutes in length, IMO. Thanks for the reactions!
Yes sir, they had three lead singers. Check out Saturday in the Park and Make Me Smile from this same concert.
An Absolute BEAST HENDRIX was mesmerized by Terry, thought he was the best, and while watching him play, commented it appeared Terry was playing backwards ❤🎉
Jimi Hendrix wanted to produce a solo album on Terry Kath, but died before it could happen. In one interview, Jimi stated that Kath was "better than me."
Unbelievable and this was LIVE . I heard them live in early 1970,s. They sounded like the record. No in ear monitors,no auto tune, just unbridled talent .Thats Peter Cetera singing the lead vocal.
@@jacquescousteau217 that’s what I love about this decade. Unbelievably great music. No filters. No auto tune. Just HAD to be great. I was 5 when this video was taken. Still can quit listening to it. Three dog night. Bob seger. The greats.
@@jacquescousteau217 that’s what I love about 70’s. HAD to be good. No faking it.
Terry Kath was with a bandmate when he picked up one of his two handguns. He said that the gun was empty and pointed it at his head…the rest is history.
In the early days Chicago or Chicago Transit Authority, as they were known on their first album,were a rock, jazz, and blues y even r and b at times!
RIP Terry Kath, one of the all time greats for sure.
Chicago was outstanding. Excellent musicians & song writing. After Kath died they were never the same. They still tour with a few of the guys, but without Kath and Cetera ...different vibe.
Terry Kath on guitar, Jimi Hendrix was once asked how does it feel to be the best guitarist in the world and he said I don’t know ask Terry Kath….
Yes. That’s Terry Kath!! RIP 🪦
Back in Jr. High, all the trombone players were big Chicago fans, because they'd never heard anyone play 16th notes on a trombone before.
@@ed-straker jimmy is in a league of his own! Amazing musician.
That’s how we rocked in the 60’s🎉
Wow... those guys didn't drop one tone-arm on vinyl, either! They actually played EVERY sound they produced... this must be a real treat for folks who consider skritching records to be their 'art.' Listing instruments? Yes... on their albums.
Actually, the way The Word got around was called RADIO. Jeez... it's hard to realize how low education-levels have become...
Terri Kath is lead guitar, Robert Lamm is the keyboardist. Peter Cetera is bass guitar and tenor in the band. Great beefy guys from my home town. ❤️
I saw Chicago in 1982 when I was 12 years old! Saw them on a college campus for $8! Pre 80’s Chicago was a phenomenal band. After their guitarist, Terry Kath, died at age 30 something playing around with a gun he thought was unloaded the band just seemed to lose the magic they had in their early days.
Agreed100 ❤
Yeah... after that, they might have still been a good band, but they weren't nearly as interesting a band as they were before. And it wasn't just the loss of Kath. Use of the brass section became much less a feature of their music in later years.
If Jimi Hendrix was a huge fan hes gotta be good. Jimi said he saw music as colours not genres and all people as his people. He really was a starchild 🌟
"Hella" interesting, WOW! Haven't heard "hella" in a long, long, LONG time. But you ARE correct, man... Thanks for your reaction.
Does not get any better.
Terry Kath
Saw them live in 1970 and 1971. They were incredible especially Terry Kath.
Greatest guitarist of all time and the greatest American rock band of all time. Nice video bro
Go dig up their debut album when they were known as The Chicago Transit Authority and play these two tracks: "Introduction" and "Poem 58". Guitar player Terry Kath wrote "Introduction" and sang lead vocals. He was called "The White Ray Charles" by his bandmates. Soulful baritone voice! "Poem 58" is nine minutes of PURE FUNK led by Terry Kath on guitar, Danny Seraphine on drums, and Peter Cetera on bass. Kath's guitar will have you needing an ice pack for your jaw after you pick it up from the floor! ruclips.net/video/j8aJiLUaWGI/видео.html
When they were "The Chicago Transit Authority", they were the house band at the Whisky a Go Go in LA. One night between sets, Jimi Hendrix, who was in the audience, went to their dressing room after catching their first set. He walked up to their sax player Walt Parazaider and said, "You guys have a horn section that sounds like one set of lungs and a guitar player that's better than me! You wanna go on the road?" They said "YEAH!". And that's how they became Hendrix's opening act on a national arena tour.
Lamm is on keyboard, peter cetera lead vocals and bass, and the champion of the world, terry kath on guitar
Although throughout the years Chicago has had many members, the musicians in this video are the classic lineup. Each one of these guys was/is a super talented and accomplished musician. I saw Chicago several times, but my first time was at the Warehouse in New Orleans around April 1970 just 3 months before this show. Same lineup, same awesome performance.
Jimi was asked what it felt like to be the best guitarist in the world. “I don’t know. You’ll have to ask Terry Kath”.
I thought he said ask Prince.
no! What year did Hendrix die? 1970. And what year did Prince begin performing? 1975. Prince was 12 when he six died.
@@monicaslonaker7605I was quoting what the AI I query gave me the answer. Pointing this out made me believe it was most likely Eric Clapton. Let me ask Co- Pilot says again.
I may ask another AI. I have been folding clothes and it took all this time. (I have a broken shoulder and and no doctor's permission to do laundry, LOL) So now I am really interested.
I mean that sincerely. My daughter says I don't come across any way but snarky; so I apologize in advance.
@@justtere no worries at all!! I come across the same way I tore two tendons in my rotator cuff once I had never been so excited in my life as when I could flip a light switch again happy healing!
I've heard that story about several different guitarists.
Hey, I grew up in Fort Worth and was in high school beginning in 1969 when I started listening to Chicago. They were hot shit. Different from other great bands of the time with their use of horns but could rock with the best of them. Listen to their first album titled Chicago Transit Authority. You will be blown away. It's a shame Terry Kath died in a plane crash at such a young age. Jimi Hendrix considered him the greatest guitar player of their time. Steve S
Terry shot himself in the head with a gun he thought was unloaded.
Any early Chicago from 1969-1978 ish is great. But check out
‘ Beginnings’
And the Doors played/started at the Whiskey A-Go-Go around the same time
Aaahmazing!!! ❤so good 👍 thank-u Fabian.
Being from Massachusetts this is one of the best rock shows that was in 1970
So Awesome ❤😊
I saw them a few years ago at the WA State Fair- they were great!
Fire, defined! RIP Terry
Great song, great band 👍 Rare Earth are also well worth a listen 🎶
Robert Lamb was on keyboards. Peter Cetera was on Bass and vocals. Terry Kath was on guitar. Ambassador Jenks
So great to find your channel. I'm originally from Fort Worth. Love your choice and channel. Keep it up.❤
they opened for hendrix and after the show a press guy asked hendrix how it felt to be the worlds greatest gutarist-hendrix said go ask terry kath
The song I'm A man from same concert is fire. Got to try that next if you come back around to them. You won't be disappointed..
I grew up with Chicago...you should try Saturday in The Park by Chicago....saw them last year in Northern California. Thunder Valley Amphitheatre...it was great...RIP Terry Kath...
Hello. I'm glad you like this. I would recommend Leonid & Friends, a Russian band that covers Chicago excellently. They have several videos here on YT. They also have covers of Blood Sweat & Tears as well as Earth Wind & Fire. They have toured the USA several times.
Yes
I saw Chicago in concert in the early 70’s at Portland Oregon! They were awesome ☮️👵🏼💙
Jimi Hendrix openly said "He's better than me" both had spoken and where going to collaborate sad Jimi Hendrix passed before this happened
Performed in my home state in Lenox, MA at Tanglewood Music Center
Remember, on more than one occasion, people would go up to Hendrix and say, "You are the best guitar player." Every time, Jimi replied, "No, Terry Kath is the best guitar player."
Leonid And Friends is a Russian or Ukrainian band that does better Chicago covers than even the current Chicago lineup does. Check 'em out.
Kath died from a gunshot wound to the head. I remember that day well. Horrible news. We were devastated.
You have to do another one of this band.
To give you a recommendation for another song. They had some really great ones in their repertoire that I can't think of a single one to suggest. They were one of those bands that they didn't release.
Okay, try Your the Inspiration. Amazing song.
Eric Clapton supposedly said this to the question,
“I don’t know. Ask Prince.” However, it’s important to note that this quote has been widely circulated but is not confirmed to have been actually said by Clapton12.
It’s a testament to the high
Sorry that's all the AI I asked would let me copy. So thanks (that is an honest opinion) for the rabbit hole I plan to follow this afternoon.
I sincerely mean that as a compliment.
Yes the Great TERRY KATH on guitar ! RIP Please do MAKE ME SMILE by Chicago, he also sings like RAY CHARLES !
25 or 6 to 4 was the time in the morning lamm was fighting writers block.
💯
Terry went off!! Bad as AF -one of the best.
A lot of people think of Chicago as a mellow rock band. But as you can hear, sometimes they jump at you like a bull mastiff.
Remember, this was live.
I saw them live twice.😊
Kath “accidentally” shot him self in’78 😢
Doesn't need quotes.
@@RedRoosterParty Yes, I DO believe it WAS an accident. Gun WAS loaded. Reminds me of Jon-Erik Hexum's accident. He was bored on the set of "Cover Up" TV series The wadding from the blanks damaged his brain. His co-star, Meeno Peluce from "Voyagers" really took it hard. They had worked together on the time travel series before this.
Right, does not need quotations! I was lucky to have a big sister who worked at a record shop. I was around 10 years old & l was hooked! Listening to them always makes me think of summer.
You gotta check out " im a man" from the same concert.
Chicago was never the same after Terry Kath.
@@robertacolarette1594 agreed. But Dawayne Bailey gave them an edge they hadn’t had before. Shouldn’t have messed with Wales daughter I hear. Just glad to see him there awhile after he left Seger.
Try beginnings and make me smile by Chicago
Terry Kath, the greatest guitarist you've never heard of 🙌
Its about a drug sequence, sitting crossleg on the floor, woundering if i should do some more.... splashing water on my face ...lol
You said in the opening statement that Robert Lamm wrote it with Peter Cetera singing lead. So NO that's NOT Lamm singing.
Terry Kath is THE guitarist for Chicago!
This one ripped you a new A hole didn't it😅😅😅😅
The whiskey, the Roxy, the troubadour, the rainbow room……
Every group and musician alive played on the Sunset strip.
Almost every weekend from 1974 to 1984… I was there.
During the week I was LA lifeguard.
I’m glad everyone didn’t have cell phones back then to record it!!!
Questionable and reckless behavior I’d rather not have my grandkids see👍
Yes, Word of mouth was the way. There were no cell phones 📲
The real Chicago died with Kath...
Terry Kath ! Bigtime guitar !
Lamm is the keyboard player
Terry Kath to my knowledge is the only guitar player that Jimi Hendrix personally told him that he was better than Jimi.
Jimi claimed that Terry Kath was better than he was!
Peter Cetera Bassist Vocals
listen to:
Asaf Avidan - Reckoning Song (Live At The Acropolis 2022)
Or
(Suggested by Ren👇)
Asaf Avidan - In A Box III - Rock of Lazarus
you won't regret!!
I heard the RAP version of this tune.....
Unfortunately Terry Kath died of a gunshot wound accidental
Robert Lamm wrote this, but as one of the three singers in the group...he did not take any of the vocals. Weird.
Best guitar player youll ever hear!!!! Kath accidently shot himself playing with a pistol.
Robert Lamb is the keyboard player Peter cetera is the bass player singer Terry Kath is p in which Jimi Hendrix p what's the best guitar he's ever seen
wish you'd have listened to the actual record.
Just saw them 2 weeks ago. 3 original members still with them and the still can ROCK!!!!!
Feel it for the dummers.. they have so much crap to set up and they take up 2/3rds of the van.. bless em