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The Church Fathers Said THIS About The Scapegoat...
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- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2024
- Many believe the doctrine of the scapegoat being Satan is totally an Adventist doctrine. We will disprove this argument in this video.
Link To Full Stream: www.youtube.co...
#seventhdayadventist #sda #sabbath #sdachurch #adventistchurch #sdasermons #amazingfacts #3angelstv #adventist #sabbathsda #scapegoat #leviticus16 #adventdefenseleague #adventistas #ellenwhite #ellengouldwhite #egwwritings #jesus #god #christiansongs #christ
Thank you for your ministry. I’m glad that real SDA’s out here on RUclips to set the record straight.
Leviticus 16 specifically states that two goats are chosen, one ( only one) is for the Lord and the other is the rejected goat (represents Satan)
@@kylontobias incorrect. It serves as one ceremony. The first is for the Lord as the Sin Offering. The second is NOT for the Lord to send sin out of the PLACE forever. Look around, there's still sin in the world Kylon.
@kylontobias read up to verse 10 buddy:
Leviticus 16:7-10 NKJV - “He shall take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. “Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat. “And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the LORD’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. “But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.
Even though initially both were chosen as the sin offering, lots were cast, and only the LORD'S goat was chosen as the sin offering. Obviously both would be classified as a sin offering at first since it was not yet determined which one would be the Lord's goat and which one would be the got for the scapegoat.
Context is king (Myles).
@@AdventDefenseLeague in Leviticus 17 it describes the goat as a demon, saying that the people will no longer sacrifice for the demon goat. Which we see in Leviticus 16 as releasing the demon goat Into the Wilderness for eternal banishment.
@@FishermensCorner That is a good observation. Any offering in the wilderness was considered an offering to demons if it was not brought to the Lord. (Lev. 17:3-7) The late Dr. Michael Heiser has a good talk on this topic. Thank you.
@kylontobias incorrect, "Satan" is represented by typology. It's as simple as this, one is for the lord, and the other is not for the lord. Anything for the Lord is good, anything not for the Lord is bad, and Satan represents bad. Orthodox Christians understand this, Messianic Jewish Christians understand this, Judaism understands this, and I understood this for decades.
The idea that Azazel represents Satan or some fallen angelic being certainly doesn't originate with SDAs. It originates in Jewish thought before the time of Christianity, predominant in many 2nd temple Jewish communities like the Qumran community and is worked in detail in Jewish pseudepigraphal books. The church fathers show quite a bit of acquaintance with such material, especially the book of 1 Enoch which was influential in early Christianity and second temple Judaism. A good book here is "Dark Mirrors: Azazel and Satanael in Early Jewish Demonology" by Orlov which is a great scholarly treatment of the topic.
Praise the Lord 🙏🏻
Homily on Levitus. Oi vey!
Well done guys!
The lamb that dies, his the representative of Jesus who took our place, the scape goat is the one who will have all the sins put on Him that he tempted , ( to sin.) then those who confessed and accepted the first lambs intercession on our behalf that have the blood of the lamb that takes the place of their guilt. Are accepted by God as if they never sin. They are completely forgiven. They then will be Heaven bound. And sin will never show its ugly face again, for eternity.
Where is that taught in the Bible ?
@@mauricethomas7090 the object lesson to a people that did not even know how to read, God used object lesson they could relate to.
@@fournierro1 Once again, where is that taught in the Bible? If it is not taught in the Bible, where does the teaching come from?
@@mauricethomas7090 from the goat and from the lamb.
@@fournierro1 here is where that unbiblical teaching comes from. ” The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit.. GC 673.1
Bravo ADL. GOD bless ADL
I can see why hollywood/ music industry loves using the pagan goat like figure in their marketing. Even in their lingos they use the word "GOAT" as a positive representation of someone's qualities. Now we have some Christians teaching that both the LORD's goat and the scapegoat represents Jesus?..Mercy!
Fun facts: neither goat is directly mentioned in the new testament, ever.....but when a goat is mentioned, it's by Jesus and it's baaaaaaadddddddd (goat sounds)......being biblically accurate, Jesus is the Passover Lamb that is accepted as the "Sin Offering." So Jesus is not a goat, ever; Jesus is the High Priest, and the 1st and 2nd Goat are a "type of WORK of Christ", NOT a "type of Christ", like most denominations believe. Jesus isn't sent out for eternity, Jesus sends sin out for eternity... the High Priest does that... last fun fact, this is not a Seventh-Day Adventist interpretation; we just get blamed for it. Orthodox Christians understand this, as does Messianic Judaism. Bonus fact, they both understand "Atonement" per this ceremony is completed on the second coming. Orthodox calls it "consecrated" in Jesus's return, and in Messianic Judaism, the fall festivals (Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkot) will be fulfilled in His second coming as "Mashiach ben David." Since the first advent fulfilled all of the spring mo'edim to the smallest of details, they believe that His second advent will finish fulfillment as revealed in the fall mo'edim.
Fun fact- eternal hell is going to suck for you blasphemous heretic. Jesus completed his atonement at Calvary. It is finished is not a difficult phrase to understand unless you are a lying village idiot. Happy probation day.
Fun fact: types and shadows are a literary biblical tool. Jesus is not literally a lamb. Jesus is not literally a goat. The two goats were both a type of Jesus. John the Baptist was not a liar when he said,” Behold, the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.” It’s your golden calf idol prep day. Get prepared to be a super pompous Pharisee on your idol day. Happy probation day blasphemous heretic.
Every single animal sacrificed points to Jesus . While Jesus is predominantly portrayed as the Lamb due to the Passover all sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin points to Jesus as there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood .
So the first goat that was sacrificed for sin points to Jesus as his sacrifice allowed for all the sins of the righteous be transferred to Satan ( scapegoat) . This allows the sins to be destroyed by fire from heaven .
Leviticus 16:15-16 KJV - Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
Leviticus 16:20-21 KJV - And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Hebrews 9:22-23 KJV - And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
@darrenharriott2120 yep, but again, there's is no mention of Goats in the new testament except for the Sheep/Goat parable. Jesus is the Passover Lamb who is accepted as the Sin Offering Goat. This is extremely important because the spring festivals (Passover, Firstfruits, and Shavuot) have been perfectly fulfilled in the first coming of Chrsit as "Mashiach ben Yosef", and the fall festivals (Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkot) are completed in His second coming as "Mashiach ben David." So the Passover Lamb is what is accepted by faith as our sin offering as we wait for the return of Christ . Thanks for sharing
@@FishermensCorner it does not have to be mentioned in the New Testament. That is a false argument that seeks to invalidate Holy scripture.
When did this view become the minority view?
That popular youtuber must be the Tradition lover Sam Shamoney ;)
Your traditions are from a crazed lunatic malignant narcissist/ thief and liar. Happy probation day blasphemous heretic.
I began to wonder how much Sam Shamoun know about church history and church fathers.
I noticed your online critic got pretty quiet during the live stream,
Which critic?
I love your presentation here. Well researched. Well done. ❤
This was indeed a game changer indeed, if you will
Where can I find these sources?
Informações interessantíssimas, não sabia dessas referências aos pais da igreja
KEY "SCAPEGOAT" CONSIDERATIONS MANY HAVE MISSED IN LEVITICUS 16!
1. The term "scapegoat" as associated with Jesus, it did NOT originate or come into use until after the 16th century, based on a misreading of what the second goat in Leviticus 16 actually meant, and originally that second he-goat in Leviticus 16 was NOT understood to be a substitutionary sacrifice (as is popularly taught today), but rather was a goat "not for the Lord", and which was associated with a demon Azazel or Satan. That's why early Church Fathers (like Origen, or Irenaeus) who wrote on Leviticus 16 in the first three or four centuries, or long before the word "scapegoat" came into use, they make no reference to the post 16th century usage of that word "scapegoat", but simply associated the Leviticus 16 he-goat or the second goat that was sent into the wilderness with Satan of Azazel, just as the Jews initially had largely understood it.
2. The 16th century term "scapegoat" originally meant "the goat that escaped" or "the emissary goat", since "scape" originally simply meant to escape, and referred to the second goat in Leviticus 16 that was "not for the Lord", and that which was sent (or escaped) into the wilderness either to or representative of Azazel, the demon! The later term "scapegoat" in the sense of a substitutionary sacrifice was NOT the original meaning in Leviticus 16, but the mistaken idea has become popular today in Christendom, and has caused much confusion!
3. In Leviticus 16, total eradication of sin from Israel or from the camp was symbolized by the burning of the carcasses and the dung of the animals that had their blood shed as a substitutionary atonement, and done so outside of the camp. See Leviticus 16:27. The shedding of blood has always meant true substitutionary atonement and the remission of sin (Heb. 9:22), while burning with fire has always been the symbol of total eradication and annihilation, and so it was only the bullock and the goat that was killed and burnt outside the camp in Leviticus 16:27 that could represent true substitutionary atonement and the permanent removal of sins/guilt from the people!! The sending of a goat that was "not for the Lord", and a goat that did not have its blood shed, but a goat bearing guilt on its head, and sent out either to Azazel or as Azazel in the wilderness, this symbolized simply returning blame to the originator of evil; it was NOT a symbol of substitutionary atonement by virtue of it not having it's blood shed by the priest!
4. Two goats chosen for a sin offering or to be used in the atonement ceremony, this simply meant two goats (one for the Lord the other for Azazel) being used to communicate the two ways sin would be dealt with via the one ceremony; not that both were to be substitutionary sacrifices!! The day of atonement or Yom Kippur was dealing with BOTH the issues of substitutionary atonement, and also the guilt of sins not atoned for in the substitutionary way, or sins that must be accounted for and punished, since the word "atonement" also means the bearing of one's own guilt and suffering punishment for one's own crimes (not just bearing blame on behalf of another), and that's why sins were also depicted as sent back to Azazel or placed on the head of Azazel the goat that was "not for the Lord". Too many have mistakenly thought that the goat that did not have its blood shed it also represented Jesus, simply because they have not carefully thought all the issues through and looked at the big picture! To see much more on this issue, click the link below and be further enlightened:-
ruclips.net/video/UP16SmOEXN4/видео.html
So have you ever considered that there are two goats brought to the temple. One is going to die right then, and his blood applied in the Holy of Holies. Every SDA I talk to say that is representing Christ. But, consider the other goat. It too could have been chosen instead of the one that was sacrificed. There are qualifications as to the sacrifices brought to the temple. They are observed, inspected so they have no fault or blemish. So the TWO ARE FAULTLESS. NO BLEMISH. Representing a sinless Christ. So your view (or any one else who holds the same view), is saying that the goat to be led into the wilderness is without fault, or blemish. He is equal to the other goat next to it as he could have been chosen instead. So your SATAN is represented as having NO SIN, just as Christ has no sin, or blemish.
When did SDA begin to quote church fathers? Is it by convenience? They deny church fathers quotes about sabbath and Sunday yet they cite them when they appear to support them! Laughable.
*Council of Laodicea* canon 29 A.D. 363
"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the sabbath day, but must work on that day, rather honoring --the Lord's Day-- [Sun-day] and, if they can, resting as Christians.
But if they they shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be an anathema from Christ."
^
Proof that true Christianity still remembered the sabbath day, to keep it Holy, even in the fourth century A.D.
You misunderstood the point of the video. The point was to show that the doctrine of the scapegoat is not exclusive to adventists
The point was not if they were right or wrong. But only to show that SDAs were not the only people who believe that the Scapegoat represents Satan.
There are certain critics of SDAs that prove their doctrines, like Sunday worship, with these church fathers. This was to show them that they agree with SDAs on this point.
Nope, we are showing the inconsistency of Sunday keeping Christians. We SDAs arrived at the conclusion that the scapegoat is Satan based on scripture alone, and the context. So why do we bring up the early church fathers? To show you evangelicals your inconsistency. Because you claim to believe in the early fathers and their Sunday keeping, so we are simply showing you "okay then, so why do you reject their belief that the scapegoat is Satan?" Get what we are doing here?
This is actually super pathetic. I’m sorry, but you guys absolutely butchered this. Go find these quotes for yourselves people. Look at them in context. They are not saying what you think. Moreover, that last quote from Origen that you thought agreed with the IJ actually refuted it. Even the little bit you read. Notice he said Jesus was in the Most Holy place interceding!!! Tell me brethren, was that quote from before or after 1844??😂😂
Come on guys, you gotta do better.
Both goats represent Jesus - Jesus died outside of the camp and our sins were remembered no more.
Hebrews 13
11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come
Yes Jesus DIED outside the camp. The scapegoat didn't. He was set free in the wilderness.
@@AdventDefenseLeague never to be heard from again as it bore the sins.
Satan never carries anyone's sins.
@@kylontobias He is not set free in the wilderness… he is exiled in the wilderness with the full blame of sin. Just like Satan will be for 1,000 years before the New Jerusalem comes down to earth and Christ’s kingdom is established here.
@@kylontobias The people who go to hell make atonement for themselves. The scapegoat doesn’t make atonement for the righteous.
To make atonement means to make reparation for a wrong. A criminal who is punished makes atonement.
To make atonement doesn’t mean to save.
@@kylontobias Are you disagreeing with the definition that I presented for atonement?
Read Isiah 53.
You are quoting origen saying the Scapegoat in Leviticus is Satan, but why can't you also quote him where he says Jesus is in the Holy of Holies? If at his time he believed Satan is the Scapegoat and you believe him,Why can't you believe him when at his time he believed Jesus was already in the Holy of Holies?
The point was not if they were right or wrong. But only to show that SDAs were not the only people who believe that the Scapegoat represents Satan.
There are certain critics of SDAs that prove their doctrines, like Sunday worship, with these church fathers. This was to show them that they agree with SDAs on this point.
If they acknowledge this truth, all their theology and the church itself will crumbled to the dust, so they promote lies.
Satan and Jesus saves SDAs. 😂