I had this happen at a building that I was doing some work for. Same Seimens Arc Fault breakers. Nuisance tripping on a few of the breakers. Changed 4 of them out to new Arc fault breakers. Kept tripping. I pulled all receptacles and light switches to check for shared neutrals and found nothing. I did notice that the breakers that were tripping were heavy on B phase. I took all the commonly used breakers and swaped them from B to A phase to see if maybe there was an imbalance at the panel. And they all worked fine under load. No more tripping.
Yo Josh! I've been watching your vids for years. I've learned so much from you. Thank you so much. I haven't seen any of your vids for quite a while but I saw this one and I wanted to take a moment and let you know that I appreciate your content. I have NO idea (other than what you've already mentioned) about how to solve this issue.. haha but I find this an interesting problem and I will look forward to the solution. Lastly, I remember some years back... you had a hater on RUclips who felt compelled to report you to OSHA for some REALLY stupid reasons and you were rethinking the idea of whether it is any good to continue your YT channel. Totally understand. Thanks for sticking around brother! Glad to see you are still here.
I had a similar problem like you are describing. I found that the neutral wire was torque down to tight. I replaced the breaker and torque it down to the specifications. That solved my issue. Have you tried reaching out to Mike Holt. I will be waiting to see what you find.
Do a megger on that overhead high-up light fixture circuit. Also attach a Oscilloscope on the hot, neutral and ground...separately and see if Siemens' suspicion of NOISE is correct.
Had the same issue with low voltage pendant lights, we could never figure out what caused the issue. Reached out to Siemens and got the same response. Customer selected a different fixture and never had another issue.
Just a quick idea would be to pigtail light off to a different circuit (maybe not so easy being way up there) to see if breaker stops tripping or if different circuit (it gets pigtailed to) trips.
1. Are the lights on a switch, or on a dimmer? If on a dimmer, replace the dimmer with a switch and repeat the test. 2. Are the lights on a magnetic transformer, or an electronic transformer? If electronic, replace with magnetic and repeat the test. P.S. you cannot run long load wires with an electronic transformer. 3. Are the breakers GFI? AFI? If so, replace with non-electronic breakers and repeat the test.
That step-down transformer/switcher could be bad and dirtying up the line -- I know you put that filter in, but... Can you hear any noise on an AM radio under the fixture when the light is on? I guess this is where I'd drag out an oscilloscope and look at the actual AC waveforms. Maybe put some torroids on the supply line to that fixture? Weird.
What version is your afci Siemens. Use new dual function Siemens they have latest firmware. Also, try an eaton breaker. Siemens got sued for bad afci’s.
RoHS of course is not a safety certification -- it only says that there is no lead-containing solder in it. The power supply of the light fixture may be very cheaply built. As you surmise, the light must be putting out high-frequency electrical noise that mimics an arc. Could a different 12-volt power supply be substituted? (Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist who does some electronic design -- not an electrician.)
Not a cheap fix but consider changing that lighting circuit to feed a dedicated external receptacle to feed a small corded UPS, in turn powering the lightly loaded lighting circuit.
I would change out breaker to a normal 15-20 amp breaker because you have a bad nuisance trip. and those arc fault are so sensitive. or you could put an arc fault or combo gfci on the outside of panel and wire circuit to the load side of it and see if it works for you.
When ive seen strange situations it's been a neutral issue. I cld suggest find a normal/simple fixture. see if its the fixture driver/ transformer being faulty
I have been doing service for 10 years. To be honest Siemens AFCI Breaker is not that good. I have replaced a lots of brand new installed breaker and the problem solved. It’s just the breaker. That batch is not good from factory.
I had this happen at a building that I was doing some work for. Same Seimens Arc Fault breakers. Nuisance tripping on a few of the breakers. Changed 4 of them out to new Arc fault breakers. Kept tripping. I pulled all receptacles and light switches to check for shared neutrals and found nothing. I did notice that the breakers that were tripping were heavy on B phase. I took all the commonly used breakers and swaped them from B to A phase to see if maybe there was an imbalance at the panel. And they all worked fine under load. No more tripping.
Yo Josh! I've been watching your vids for years. I've learned so much from you. Thank you so much. I haven't seen any of your vids for quite a while but I saw this one and I wanted to take a moment and let you know that I appreciate your content. I have NO idea (other than what you've already mentioned) about how to solve this issue.. haha but I find this an interesting problem and I will look forward to the solution. Lastly, I remember some years back... you had a hater on RUclips who felt compelled to report you to OSHA for some REALLY stupid reasons and you were rethinking the idea of whether it is any good to continue your YT channel. Totally understand. Thanks for sticking around brother! Glad to see you are still here.
His name is joshua
@@zeez4178 Thank you! My brother's name is Scott. Not enough coffee! Edit made. Thanks again!
I had a similar problem like you are describing. I found that the neutral wire was torque down to tight. I replaced the breaker and torque it down to the specifications. That solved my issue. Have you tried reaching out to Mike Holt. I will be waiting to see what you find.
gotta be a neutral. I don't even bother replacing them with arcs. just put regular breakers and if it still trips then you've got a real issue.
Are these combo arc and gfci breakers?
Do a megger on that overhead high-up light fixture circuit. Also attach a Oscilloscope on the hot, neutral and ground...separately and see if Siemens' suspicion of NOISE is correct.
Had the same issue with low voltage pendant lights, we could never figure out what caused the issue. Reached out to Siemens and got the same response. Customer selected a different fixture and never had another issue.
Just a quick idea would be to pigtail light off to a different circuit (maybe not so easy being way up there) to see if breaker stops tripping or if different circuit (it gets pigtailed to) trips.
@@KungFuMaintenance he could pigtail it in the switch box
1. Are the lights on a switch, or on a dimmer? If on a dimmer, replace the dimmer with a switch and repeat the test.
2. Are the lights on a magnetic transformer, or an electronic transformer? If electronic, replace with magnetic and repeat the test. P.S. you cannot run long load wires with an electronic transformer.
3. Are the breakers GFI? AFI? If so, replace with non-electronic breakers and repeat the test.
That step-down transformer/switcher could be bad and dirtying up the line -- I know you put that filter in, but... Can you hear any noise on an AM radio under the fixture when the light is on? I guess this is where I'd drag out an oscilloscope and look at the actual AC waveforms. Maybe put some torroids on the supply line to that fixture? Weird.
Incoming neutral issue? Incoming bonding/grounding issue?
If it stumps you for a few hours... It's always a neutral.
Hmmm! Is there something wrong with the neutral or the ground that serves the 12-volt power supply?
Disconnect the light to narrow down your trip. If it don't trip its your fixture.
What version is your afci Siemens. Use new dual function Siemens they have latest firmware. Also, try an eaton breaker. Siemens got sued for bad afci’s.
RoHS of course is not a safety certification -- it only says that there is no lead-containing solder in it. The power supply of the light fixture may be very cheaply built. As you surmise, the light must be putting out high-frequency electrical noise that mimics an arc. Could a different 12-volt power supply be substituted? (Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist who does some electronic design -- not an electrician.)
Not a cheap fix but consider changing that lighting circuit to feed a dedicated external receptacle to feed a small corded UPS, in turn powering the lightly loaded lighting circuit.
I would change out breaker to a normal 15-20 amp breaker because you have a bad nuisance trip. and those arc fault are so sensitive. or you could put an arc fault or combo gfci on the outside of panel and wire circuit to the load side of it and see if it works for you.
have not heard from you in some time.
When ive seen strange situations it's been a neutral issue. I cld suggest find a normal/simple fixture. see if its the fixture driver/ transformer being faulty
Sounds to me like too much leakage current on the Neutral or equipment ground
I have been doing service for 10 years. To be honest Siemens AFCI Breaker is not that good. I have replaced a lots of brand new installed breaker and the problem solved. It’s just the breaker. That batch is not good from factory.
Remove the arc fault breaker install a regular 15 or 20amp
$6k for a light? And it causes noise that breaks the arc faults? Get rid of the light and problem goes away. Also saves you $6k.
I to am stumped