Fast Fault Finding - Electrician Life
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Fast Fault Finding - Electrician Life
Join me as I trace a fault with a some kitchen sockets not working!
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#FaultFinding #ElectricianLife #ArtisanElectrics 
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I like your approach. I would suggest that you just check the rest. They do work their way loose. This is because of expansion and contraction and the AC current as your mentioned.
i wish this was everybody's electrician. such a great no nonsense guy. big thumbs up
Thanks
2 things different from me... I’d have checked the other terminals and possibly moved the breaker across so the cable reached without a joint in the CU
Good tips
Thermal camera is useful for finding less obvious arcing faults. Two things I'm surprised more electricians don't own are a thermal camera and a tone tracer. I'm just a knowledgeable DIY'er and I found my main fuse was arcing, something a normal spark would have had trouble doing as they'd have had to break the seal.
electricians are the worse on long island. always have to share one breaker with 6 wires. in out fast doing cheap work. im the only one who does it right. always explain to customer what is going on. and at my regular job customers like my work very much. very easy to troubleshoot. I'm a Sr Electrical Tech/engineer on machines and teaching new engineers.
“I’m going to do a bit of fault finding”...opens first cover...”oh! there it is!” 😁
😁
It looks as though that bubbled conductor was carrying the full load of the circuit.
I'd have checked insulation resistant plus ring continuity. I would also check the RCD trip time. Checking the load with a load meter would clarify if too much current was being drawn.
That'll be £95 please 😁
£96 😉
I like the problem solving type of videos Jordan.
Learning bits of electrical from your videos. Really interesting!
Glad you like them!
This Man Jordan has a face and manner that I can trust. There are so many no hoper chancer bums out there. Was delighted to subscribe to Jordans channel. One can learn from him. i live very remotely in Africa so need to do everything myself. Thanks Jordan for your great videos
Wow great thanks for your comment! Welcome to the channel!
I’d love to see a video on your RUclips strategies, cus you are now absolutely steaming ahead, well done 👍
I had an emergency callout today no power at the property, turned out there was no credit in the meter
🤣
wait do you have to like throw in coins or load money onto a card or how does that work in your country? lmao
@@luca35821 They have a "key" that you top up with money at a local corner shop or petrol station. This way no money is kept in the meter and nobody has to visit to empty it.
Stuart Arnold damn that‘s so crazy! may i ask which country this is in? also in the UK?
@@luca35821 it was in the Uk
Whilst you were in the CU, did you check all the other terminations were correctly torqued? Could potentially prevent the next fault. If the installer missed one, they might have missed two?
My thoughts exactly!
It's a bit wonky...
Hoping he did off camera because I didn't see him tighten the terminal for the buzz bar on the replacement breaker.
Or fully back out the bottom terminal so it catches the busbar
This is Jordan.... Of course he did..... :)
@@roydowling2542 'Buzz bar'. Good one!
From the US so I am not sure about this. The circuit appeared to be a ring. Should you not have check continuity to be sure the ring is intact???
Why? He is not there to an eicr.
Joseph Queen ... TBH I thought he might just in case the fault was caused by an incomplete ring...eg someone changed a socket and didn’t ensure continuity. But...he covered his ass with the recommendation to undertake IECR test.
@@kloddi25 Because with the heat damage on only 1 side it looks like that one is taking all the load, indicating a broken ring. Plus you'd be a bit daft not to take mere seconds to do a quick test for continuity when changing the mcb on a ring.
@@kloddi25 lol you ever heard of the last one to touch it owns it even in the states if you repair something you have a responsibility to make sure it is safe and operable circuit (same with uk sparks )
Yes continuity test R1+R2 test
I like your methodical approach to fault finding. Great video dude. I enjoy a bit of fault finding. :)
Glad you enjoyed!
I had the same problem recently on a callout after an eicr had been carried out a couple of days earlier which damaged the mcb and the Rcd Next to it from a shower circuit, it made a large hole in the rcd plastic and melted the insulation on the ring final circuit on the mcb next to that as well from the arcing.
I guess the line wire to the mcb hadnt been tightened up properly and missed the clamp, not possible to tell for sure as too much damage to the mcb.
Excellent job.I had a very similar emergency job to go to.the fuseboard a Hager one.was getting really hot around the 32a kitchen ring.fair bit of tracing,it turned out to be a single gang surface mount socket,with a big crack and hole in the back box ,feeding a tumble dryer,the moisture outlet pipe had split badly,and was letting a load of steamy moisture,short out phase to neutral,it cooked the breaker,as in your video here.thoroughly enjoyed tracking it down.please may I ask what are the make and model number of your pliers in this video,they are superb.
Watching from Myrtle Beach SC USA !
Nice easy fix, good job.
Thanks 👍
Got to love those of loose screws I know I have a couple myself internally lol :-) :-)
LOL
The thing I notice -
1 The Stove/cooker should be on a completely different circuit - not shared with other GPO
2 Same for refrigerator -
3. Bathroom GPO (s) need to be on a separate circuit ( Not Shared )
4. Garage (which does not rhyme with Marriage) but rhymes with Barrage also on a separate circuit
Love a nice easy one like this !
Do you also advise the customer to unplug all appliances on that socket/ ring circuit and plug each item in one by one and see if it trips, then it can narrow it down to a possible faulty item.
FYI Didnt see you tighten bottom terminal of new MCB you clipped in. Sure u wouldn’t of forgotten Jordon you are a Good Spark
Excellent! Yes I would consider swapping the position of the breaker if there is extra length on another on available and the order still makes some logical sense. The more joints there are the more points of failure are introduced. Every joint will have an associated resistance and this can (for all sorts of reasons) increase with age. Without getting too technical, the voltage drop across any connection (or conductor) however small, causes heating which increases oxidation and the connection gets worse as well as the thermal cycling. Now this is being rather pedantic, but all of these bits of physics (and more!) lead to an increased risk of future faults before we even get into the width of a conductor required, the reasons behind it, contact/screw surface area and so much more (let alone skin effects at higher currents/frequencies). Good to see electricians that not only know how to find and swap out stuff but the underlying physics behind it all! Thanks for making all of these excellent videos.
Love it!
I love dis work
The wire that is "not too bad" (see 4:20) has an indentation on the insulation, suggesting that the original installer didn't push the wire into the breaker far enough to make reliable contact. Nice video.
Thanks for the info!
Tanks for the video -vishnu (India)
Why not move a braker or two along and re connect without a joint, best practice in my book. Also did you check the other circuits for loose connections I would have done the whole D.B.
spot on-id of done the same
First thing
Very nice label with values
Second, I can see that the 5th circuit is not used (by the label) but when you took the panel off, apart from the obvious issue, the top screw from the 5th MCB looks a bit yellow, possible from overheating?
Expansion and contraction of the copper conductors caused by warm up and cool down will also cause a deformation which will lead to a loose connection.
Did you make sure all the rest of terminals where nice and tight including tails to main switch? before putting the board cover back on!
Great content.
Where can I get a motherboard replacement for a megga ohmmeter? Or where can I buy a used good insulation resistance tester?
Thanks for your vid. It was a different but similar problem I have. Guarage fuse box from the grid kept getting over tripped due to pond equipment running through it. Anyway this has helped isolate problem so I can have it repaired.
I just wanted to let you know as taking of unusual over heated circuits. You may or may not be aware probably will but it’s not that common. When electric like cars the Nissan leaf / vehicles first came out they came with plug in special house charging packs that still can . If not used correctly they may make strange things happen at the main fuse box from the grid but probably will just trip it out. So something to be aware of if the situation looks like that could be possible.
Thanks for your vid and quality content
Shame that you didn't show us how you extended the short wire?
Tky
Greatly appreciate your videos.
Looks like the conn to the breaker was left loose
Use a WAGO in line connector?
Would you consider swapping the short conductor and new breaker to the left so you don't have to extend the conductor
Hey Jordan is the 16a breaker also loose as it looks discoloured in your video ?
Do you have what's known as a 'sub panel' where a feeder line goes to a smaller panel say a workshop in garage? do the neutrals and grounds connect in sub panel?
I have a question, it might sound stupid but do you remove the main fuse before working on a fuseboard?
would have loved to see the test on the MCB to check its providing short circuit protection
Very interesting to see that..... Obviously the RCD did its job and stopped the hole thing going up
Can you use a wago connection in an fuse bord in the uk, it’s not permitted in The Netherlands following regulations
Yes I would have followed your exact method of fault finding ,but I would like you to answer a question I have as a recently retired Industrial electrician of 50 years I retired as this new idea from the industry leaders to introduce torque screwdrivers for tightening up connections in consumer units ,my question is why they find it essential for electricians to torque connections in consumer units yet there are far more connections in the installations that are vulnerable to connections coming loose yet there is no concern regarding those connections,its my opinion that this is just another move to make money from electricians in 50 years I've never used a torque screwdriver but had no loose connections on my work,because working on huge contracts that last from 12 months to 2 years I am there at handover just thought I would get your view on the subject
I used to see that from time to time working as a maintenance electrician some times diy done by the tenant be leave or not but usually when they attempt to fit there own light fittings faults happen
Classic symptom of a loose connector. Had a neighborwith a similar problem on the air conditioner breaker. It actually burned the breaker and smelled the remainder of the day. The next day he had an electrician fix the problem.
Just wondering what torque you set that replacement mcb to. Did you torque it off camera?😅
Would have done a quick check on the circuit to make sure it isn't a broken ring and that's what caused it to overheat melt and loosen in the terminal. Could even be an unbalanced ring . Correct recommendation with an eicr though. I have seen an adjacent faulty breaker sine wave go faulty so it buzzed and loosened adjacent cables
one side of the ring not contact the breaker, so other side takes all the current.
I wouldn't be intentionally arcing the circuit like that bit crazy really just turn the cct off
I was thinking this and thinking, am I missing something🤭
Just dramatic effect
@@artisanelectrics And potentially damaging the client's equipment.
Another great video...... did you use a inline connector...? if so what type.... :)
Why did you extend the circuit when others had length on them you could have moved the other MCB’s down and put the new B32 further up the board to avoid a joint. New DB schedule, test, done.
A whole house reference method B? What was it, a council rewire in yt2 and yt4?
looks like youve got a possible specimin for big clive!. Not going to torque the new breakers to hager spec??? so they dont loosen. As a courteys and good workman ship for the 10mins it takes I'd have re torqued the whole board. But then i suppose there'd be no call back because i reckon if theres one theres more.
Hey I love your work, kindly help me to know the difference between RCD and RCCD.
Isn't one
What's with so many circuits in one RCD? Do you get many problems with nuisance tripping? Here down under generally all new installs will have 1 rcbo per circuit these days.
Did you test for ring continuity? Seeing that bubbling up on one my first though is both a loose connection and broken ring with the bubbled up one taking nearly all the load.
It was taking all the load because the other leg of the ring wasn't terminated into the MCB. So, yes, a broken ring.
Jordan you realy love your knipex instalation pliers do you a litte bit shorter than normal butt quality content as always.
Mr Burgler here. Heard this was the channel for Vault finding?
LOL
Your videos are great for anyone learning, keep it up.
still amazed that you guys still use solid core wire. we got rid of it in Australia ages ago.
Yeah we are old school haha
What's the benefit of not using solid core wires?
@@slobodanjovanovic8166 The cables are much more flexible and easier to work with.
Hello. I am not an electrician but an automation tech and my trouble finding solution is 1) ask the operator what happened in detail, 2) simulate said fault, 3) do the easiest things first such as fuses, breakers, and so on, 3) go software first such as alarms and settings, then do electrical wiring, servos, etc, then lastly do the mechanical part such as jammed moving parts or too much slack or tolerance of pieces. 4) use binary search and other methods and lastly if all fails substitution of that potential part that is broken.
The most complicated part to troubleshoot are servos and other things that work but does not work as intended.
YUP, I saw that right away, guessing if rcd or breaker is carrying less than full load, but the connection is loose, lots of heat build up.
If AFDD was used, would it have saved the wire from melting?
3:01 Not overload - not tight enough.
Greetings from germany
here in the Netherlands its not even aloud to put 2 wires under one breaker connection, saw some more things that should alarm a electricienz maybe i saw it wrong but are there no OFC cable crimp sleeves on the thicker wires ?. Nice video tho keep up the good work!!!!
That's called a ring circuit only exists in the UK and some of their former colonies.
Hi Jordon, I have a question for you, I need Help! one of my ciruit breakers keeps tripping out and wont reset, have have measured the breaker on both ends and with the breaker triped there is still voltage flowing thourgh when i meassure it (Test it ) i have nothing pluged in on the loop. could the bea sign of a broken Circiut breaker ???
Thank you.
Sounds like you need to call a qualified electrician as it could be dangerous
did you check all the other connections weren't also loose?
There should be a new law outlawing any new "Ring Circuits" and prohibiting any refurbishment of them. They are a terrible idea and quite obviously cause many more problems than necessary. They came into being many decades ago when cable was in extremely short supply, rather than from any intrinsic benefit in design.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Bloody lethal things. I’m from Australia but live and work in Scotland and I can’t believe we’re still putting them in over here. Shambles
You never showed you securing the MCB to the busbar. Also when I get a fault like this I always go round all the connections and usually find a few.
as always Nice vid
Thanks again!
Does it need to have you look at the kitchen to see an over load appliance the might be used?
A kitchen is always over-committed (you can turn on all the plugged in devices and it will certainly be over 32A), but generally people rarely turn on the washing machine, dishwasher, toaster, hot-air fryer, kettle and microwave at the same time. This is protected by the MCB. So the MCB will protect the circuit if a single appliance has a fault. Additionally, device in the kitchen of a UK house will be protected by a fuse in the plug, or the fused outlet at 13A. So a failed appliance (like a washing machine failing motor winding) is very likely to blow a fuse.
In this case it is possible that one of the terminals is not making contact in that MCB - limiting the rating of the circuit to the 27A max rated (non insulated) 2.5mm wire , but generally 2.5mm will just get too hot out of spec rather than be damaged.
I would have probably checked a few sockets to see if there was any heat damaged elsewhere since this is the kitchen circuit, but that CU heating certainly looked like heating from the faulty connection and not along the wire itself. Remember, even good connections are the weak point, not the wire itself, so if there is overload this will be seen in the sockets and other connections - so hence checking a couple of ring sockets to see if there is heating due to the failed ring.
I guess you could have moved the MCB closer to where it comes in rather than using a wago to extend the cut phase wire. Love your work, esp Cory, he's a - uh switched on young man.
Hi Jordan Do you carry out testing and give a miner works type certificate on this type of work ? . I have been catching up on your previous videos , and was intrigued about you often mentioning somebody called Nic Bunday . Sorry if I spelt his name wrong . But you said something about a job involving flexible conduit . So I went and found the video 🤣 . Bless him , definitely totally compliant so he can’t be accused of not being diligent . But how can l put it . It lacked a certain degree of visual appeal. Trunking was mentioned as a viable alternative . But we often used calve tray to for fill such a situation . Using metal zip ties if fire is a risk factor . No at the end of the day , we would all approach any job differently . But thanks for sharing this bit of fun . Best wishes and kind regards to you and all your fellow tradesman .
What type of mine does your miner work in ?
Coal mine - Iron ore mine - Lithium mine - or perhaps it is
a diamond mine --
Catch up on reading some books so that you can learn the difference between Miner and Minor
It is a Major error of language you made that you should be beyond making.
Make it right by writing each of those words one hundred times -
I always feel dicouraged of advising a client to operate switchgear unbeknownst of a fault, though this is common practice and why not it is cheaper for the client.. But is it safe. Would this be acceptable for other trades, like gas engineers..
Greetings, I am interested in ur channel, pls tell me what an RCD is and MCB. As I understand it,
1 of these is for overcurrent protection, other is for leakage current?
Is this hager switch designed to put 2 wires on it? If not this should we seperated or be connected with a clamp which fits 2 wires. According to the NEN rules.
It's Britain not the Netherlands.
Hi Jordan MEM also had those rcd units that need resetting by pushing the switch down before pushing back up to reset
Cool thanks
Did you check the rest of the breakers to see if they were loose also?
He says that he's going to return to do a full check when not on "emergency call out" charges.
@@stupot_64 I'd still spend 5 minutes checking the tightness of the other breakers whilst I was there.
@@Chris-hy6jy Admittedly so would I.
Had this happen with a 40 amp fuse carrier feeding a CU, which was fed straight off a busbar. Thankfully the fault was on the dead side of the carrier as it would isolate when the case was opened. The charring and the smell... Building was only 2 years old at that point. Some people shouldn't be electricians.
lol this is why in the states very few breakers are rated for 2 wires under the breaker terminals
I like hard difficult faults finding
the real problem ist the 2 wire in one connection. it must be same size of cable and parallel install..
i think in this case it was not do right seen on 2:30 one cable is going up, the other streight out... so little cross, not correct install, maybe little lose, resistant going warm, more resistant... bubble.... heating....
a mechanical check ist to pull on each cable. it must hold after a good installation, so this can be the error and 2 wire
Whats Up with the B curve ?
Interesting tha in the UK you most use B curve MCB instead of C like here in europe?
Are Cs not for inductive loads? And will require more fault current to trip?
@@jameshansing5396 for me in houses is better B curve more responsive.. but here in europe 90% of CU are C type even you go buy local eletrical shop they give you C type MCB ..
James Hansing yeah but we have plenty air conditioning units, T8 fittings and so on so we use c type for the normal household, the regs have been requiring rcd for all circuits for more than 20 years, so we don’t rely on an mcb to trip if someone gets a shock 🤷♂️
Filipe S. 20 years that's impressive, every circuit ? Does it depend how it's been installed , in Walls, surface etc ,, interesting shows how far behind we are really
Boznivich Uk is only behind on the execution side of the install and access to materials.. for the theory, the regs are so winding and tricky with “you shouldn’t but you can but don’t do it” that most electricians need to go ask other electricians, making them doubt of their own work.
Possibly would of just checked continuity of ring just to make sure . Just to make sure one leg wasn’t overloading.
5:28 pity big clive already took one apart sent to him by CJR Electrical
that's why here in Portugal we don't put a 2.5mm cable in a 32A circuit breaker. at the most for 25A. And deppend of the distance
You're not using rings. Also, this likely has nothing to do with overload.
Ring mains are utterly ridiculous and out dated. The dangers and their deficiencies outweigh any benefits, they aren't justifiable.
I live in France. What gauge wire do I need for a run of 40 meters?
For what type of load?
Great Job You found fault loose then fixed it. Good safe! BIG Thumb up!!!!! Cheer!
Thanks 👍
I see so many breakers behind the RCD . is'nt there a rule ? 4 breakers behind each RCD ?
2:33 oooh tasty 👍👍👍
i reckon mr fiddlers been messing, you can not insert cables correctly on new breakers as they come fully extended , only happens if you take one out at a later stage
B32 to this wire??
By completing the test you need checking the rest of the breakers and see if they are correct
If you still got it. Send to Big Clive.
... so he can set fire to it in his pie dish.
@@stupot_64 JW would be best person to set fire to it 😂
@@n4thb4dc0 But he just cheats by aiming a blow torch on it. Where's the fun in that?
I'm not an electrician, but I don't like to see bare cable above the screw clamp, it makes a mockery of having the screw recessed for safety! I'd have been inclined to check all of the other cables, pound to a pinch of salt some of the others were no doubt loose.
How much would you normally charge for a fix like that?
400€
i would have investigated more and tested if the circuit and the socket were fine
A lot of different circuits?
Come and visit here 🙈
10 distribution boards on 3 phase power.
Jordan when is IP21 job going on your channel ?
Saturday! Are you the man who came to see the dodgy gate?!
@@artisanelectrics yes that was me look forward to seeing the vid
👍
👍👍
Does being an employed electrician pay well? I want to change industry, but I’m not seeing a compelling salary anywhere. Anyone disagree?
i dont know how the rules for breakers are in the uk, but hager got breakers with push in terminals. so you dont worry about loose screws anymore and makes the installation way more faster www.hager.de/modulargeraete/leitungsschutzschalter/ls-schalter-6-ka-quickconnect/mbs116/982528.htm
Yeah we saw them demonstrated on a UK channel. Efix