I'm not an electrician, I just have an interest in learning anything and everything. This was so well explained and laid out. I understood it straight away. This is the 3rd or 4th video I have watched regarding ring circuits and only with this one did I get that 'light bulb' moment. Thank you for your effort.
Excellent video. I've got my AM2 coming up in the a few weeks and this really helped to explain what is expected. So glad people like yourself take the time to create content as informative as this for revision. Thank you.
Very well presented well done. I am not an electrician I trained on electronics C&G 224 parts 1 and 2 TV / Radio and control systems we did the lot digital and analogue . Worked as a fire alarm commissioning engineer for many years and as an apprentice my mentor told me to always remember 1 leg of 1.5mm cable is approximately 12 ohms (11.86 rounded up) Long ring circuits to you loops to us 😂 . They could be anything up to 1.5km so 18 ohms per leg. Used to use 1.2 ohms per 100m run for tracking down shorts to earth and more than a few times I was spot on and got the nickname the earth fault kid. Miss my mentor he passed away a few years ago what a top bloke taught me so much. Great to see you using maths and readings to assist fault finding all makes perfect sense to me well done.👏
Great Video, I recently took the 2365 L3 (I was an Electrician years a go and retuned to it back in 2017 and wanted to update all my qualifications and possibly get a Gold card) Whilst the L3 course had a lot of fault finding on the practical there was only a little on the theory or approach and that was in a slightly different way! They really need to add this video to their course as soon as I saw this everything they taught made complete sense (and it did not at the time)! Whilst I know how to fault find and fix Rings etc I am always looking for additional ways of solving problems and this was just brilliant. Every Apprentice should watch this. Also I completed a Domestic installers course (No fault finding taught at all) and then went on to complete the 2365 L2 & L3 and they did not show R1+Rn testing on any of them. I only tested R1 & Rn when I took the 2391-52 course, but could not understand why this was not taught at the more basic levels. When I did start testing R1+Rn on my 2365 L2 course the instructor told me I did not need to do it for the course! (It was more about completing all the tasks within the time).
Thanks Adrian, Brilliant video. Has really helped me visualise the Figure of 8 and appreciate how the R1+RN test is critical to proving polarity and its role in facilitating initial verification fault finding. Top level content sir!
Keep up the good work mate! Really appreciate your effort and time spent on these videos. I wish I had you as a tutor, even so I managed to learn so many things from your videos.
Not true buddy. Zs test will not pick up N-E reverse as both are at 0V, so it will give a reading when testing between the line conductor. Only if the circuit has an RCD, as this would trip as it detects the current flowing to earth when performing the Zs test.
Why do you use ring circuits so much in Britain? Is it worth it to use thinner wires? In my opinion rings are very dangerous becouse you never spot a fault right away. Appliances keep working until some wiring somewhere melts down. You are then at risk of a fire or an electric shock, any of these can kill you. In the Czech Republic (and all the mainland EU) we use only radial circuits, 1,5mm2 wire for lights and 2,5mm2 for 230V 16A sockets. By the way, your way of explaining things is brilliant!
excellent video, I am having a problem with ring main. I watched this one and the one before, so I know where to start and how easier find the issue. many thanks ❤❤❤❤
It’s wonderful to have someone like you taking your time and uploading them thank you Adrian . I will have my am2 exam in few weeks time, so can I ask you about short circuit faults please, I was told that on the am2 exam the short circuit is only between live conductors not earth. Does that mean the fault is only between lives never lives to earth? Appreciate your help in advance
Thank you for the positive feedback and it’s my pleasure. I would be very careful listening to advice from other people and go in with a fresh mind. If you are ready for the AM2 it should be fairly easy, if not, it will be an amazing learning experience that you can reflect on. Personally, I would assume that anything is and will be possible 👌
@@Pure_electrical_training whilst you're here...what's the quickest way of testing Ring Finals. Also, what would be awesome would be a video for efficient/faster testing techniques in "lived in" domestic properties.
well explained video with good solid reasoning and explanation, just a couple of points, neutral IS a live conductor as is the LINE, it is fundamentally incorrect to call the brown wire the live conductor because the neutral is also a live conductor, it should always be line and neutral, also electrons absolutely DO NOT flow around the circuit, the current does but not the electrons, you could refer to circuit continuity in the Line (or Neutral or cpc) conductor or the particular figure 8 you have connected. I believe it is important to get all new apprentices and new electricians to use the correct terminology, on the bright side I was please to hear you refer to a "ring final circuit" and not the more usual and incorrect term "ring main"
Absolutely agree that the live is the line conductor and the neutral is also a live conductor. It’s hard to talk to a camera, rather than someone’s face, so I some times slip up with the terminology. I had to edit it a couple of times, as I refereed to the schedule of test results as the schedule of inspections 😂 I do use the correct terminology at work, and hadn’t even picked that up n the edit, so thank you for pointing it out. I’ll keep a better eye out next time 👍 I describe the flow of electrons, as I believe it helps the apprentices better imagine current flowing in the circuit, like using the analogy of water, hose pipes and pressure etc. Thank you for taking the time to provide me with feedback, it all helps 🤝
love the video hope you do some more fault finding videos cause I'm gunna need this for when I start level 3 not working at a spark at min so it'll be good knowledge
Awesome stuff mate, Thank you! May I kindly request a video on how to interpret electrical drawings please? I just struggle to comprehend most of the time- especially when I’m on a construction site. Just feel lost to be honest! Your help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers again.
What would be nice is to show a socket on the on a different circuit where we would obviously have no reading throughout.also a plug in voltage tester cant tell you if its an actual ring or not.nice video
Wouldnt a quick whip round with a KEW socket tester show immediately if there were any reverse polarity issues. The KEW LOOPCHECK 107 seems like a new generation of simple fault finding devices Super quick??? Yes, you cover this exact point v thoroughly at the end of the video. However, isn't it a quick check towards faults in the system, guiding you to where you should pay attention? Thoughts please? Genuine question. Tky. Ps. V informative and helpful video. V thorough. Excellent!
That would involve taking off all the faceplates and people make mistakes when terminating, so they could make mistakes when checking. Also, there would be no certificate to prove that the circuit is compliant for the next person to use. There could also be a junction box somewhere that isn’t terminated correctly and is causing a fault. It’s not just about polarity, it’s about verification and certification. I hope that helps 👍
Thank you for the reply, I forgot to thank you when you did reply. Apologies. Time to time I always come back to this video. I have a question again….. You said that checking visually would involve taking of the faceplates which I assume you mean that it takes too much time and people make mistakes terminating and also checking. Q. How are supposed to get readings if we don’t take the faceplate off ? Is it by putting those really long thin testing leads into the holes where the plugs go into without taking of the faceplate ? Luckily for you I wasn’t one of your students because I would have probably made your life a misery by asking a 1000000 questions
So how would this actual test look? Are you taking socket fronts off or are you plugging in an MFT 'socket' attachment with the 3 leads plugged into it and doing it that way?? Ps great stuff this channel is amazing.
You would think so wouldn’t you, but I’ve had a few people who have come back and said that they were sure that there was more than one fault in their installation. One had 3 ohms on one bonding cable and open circuit on the other, so clearly more than one fault.
@@Pure_electrical_trainingI guess it encourages the student to completely overlook the circuit for faults. If you have only heard about two faults for one circuit on the bonding then that gives new learners the confidence it won’t be on a lighting or ring final which can throw off them off. Bonding is a lot easier on the day.
Is it right that main bonding conductors dont have to be under 0.05 they just have to be relevant reading to the length of the cable. Did my inspection and testing the other day and the assesor said that comment?
It’s true. If you read GN3 it has already calculated that 15m of 6mm is 0.05 Ohm’s, or 25m of 10mm It’s there to give you an idea when testing a property, so you can use your engineering judgement
What would happen in theory if you went from the CU with a CPC throughout the circuit and a line conductor to a socket came out in neutral to the line of another socket out the neutral so on until you get back to the CU and connect to the neutral bar? I know it’s dodge but just got thinking about it would it work? 😅
It wouldn’t work, as the voltage would drop on each socket, and the appliances wouldn’t work properly, if at all. Do you remember putting lamps in series at school and they got dimmer and dimmer. Whereas, in parallel, they stayed the same
It’s a good question, unfortunately there are currently no socket testers that will detect a neutral/earth reversal, and they only have lights. This will not give you any indication as to the condition of the circuit or accessories and any potential high resistance faults. They are purely an indication device like a volt pen
I'm not an electrician, I just have an interest in learning anything and everything. This was so well explained and laid out. I understood it straight away. This is the 3rd or 4th video I have watched regarding ring circuits and only with this one did I get that 'light bulb' moment. Thank you for your effort.
Thank you for your kind words
@@Pure_electrical_training 100% agree with Marc. Great video Dave. Keep up the good work... oh Adrian Davey. I thought you said Asian Dave :)
Excellent video. I've got my AM2 coming up in the a few weeks and this really helped to explain what is expected. So glad people like yourself take the time to create content as informative as this for revision. Thank you.
Awesome, thank you for the feedback 🤗
Have you seen my AM2 playlist 🙌
Very well presented well done. I am not an electrician I trained on electronics C&G 224 parts 1 and 2 TV / Radio and control systems we did the lot digital and analogue . Worked as a fire alarm commissioning engineer for many years and as an apprentice my mentor told me to always remember 1 leg of 1.5mm cable is approximately 12 ohms (11.86 rounded up) Long ring circuits to you loops to us 😂 . They could be anything up to 1.5km so 18 ohms per leg. Used to use 1.2 ohms per 100m run for tracking down shorts to earth and more than a few times I was spot on and got the nickname the earth fault kid. Miss my mentor he passed away a few years ago what a top bloke taught me so much. Great to see you using maths and readings to assist fault finding all makes perfect sense to me well done.👏
Thank you for sharing that, and the positive feedback 👊
Great Video, I recently took the 2365 L3 (I was an Electrician years a go and retuned to it back in 2017 and wanted to update all my qualifications and possibly get a Gold card) Whilst the L3 course had a lot of fault finding on the practical there was only a little on the theory or approach and that was in a slightly different way! They really need to add this video to their course as soon as I saw this everything they taught made complete sense (and it did not at the time)! Whilst I know how to fault find and fix Rings etc I am always looking for additional ways of solving problems and this was just brilliant. Every Apprentice should watch this.
Also I completed a Domestic installers course (No fault finding taught at all) and then went on to complete the 2365 L2 & L3 and they did not show R1+Rn testing on any of them. I only tested R1 & Rn when I took the 2391-52 course, but could not understand why this was not taught at the more basic levels. When I did start testing R1+Rn on my 2365 L2 course the instructor told me I did not need to do it for the course! (It was more about completing all the tasks within the time).
Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed feedback 🙌
Thank you, I try my best 🤗🤝
Best teacher ever!💯🙏
I agree! 👍
Very good delivery of information. Precise concise short and simple to understand. Thanks
Thank you so much 🤗
From a recently retired industrial electrician of 50 years i thought your run through of testing a final ring circuit was spot on mate
Thanks Adrian, Brilliant video. Has really helped me visualise the Figure of 8 and appreciate how the R1+RN test is critical to proving polarity and its role in facilitating initial verification fault finding. Top level content sir!
Thank you Tim 🤗
Keep up the good work mate! Really appreciate your effort and time spent on these videos. I wish I had you as a tutor, even so I managed to learn so many things from your videos.
Thank you to uploading this kind of video with great explanation of fault finding and reverse polarity .
You are more than welcome 👌
A live zs test will tell you this straight away and in a lot less time.
P.s very well explained though 👏
Not true buddy. Zs test will not pick up N-E reverse as both are at 0V, so it will give a reading when testing between the line conductor.
Only if the circuit has an RCD, as this would trip as it detects the current flowing to earth when performing the Zs test.
Why do you use ring circuits so much in Britain? Is it worth it to use thinner wires? In my opinion rings are very dangerous becouse you never spot a fault right away. Appliances keep working until some wiring somewhere melts down. You are then at risk of a fire or an electric shock, any of these can kill you. In the Czech Republic (and all the mainland EU) we use only radial circuits, 1,5mm2 wire for lights and 2,5mm2 for 230V 16A sockets.
By the way, your way of explaining things is brilliant!
Great information Arrian Thank you I have my 2391 next week so going over all test on RUclips
You are more than welcome 🙏 and good luck 👊
Many thanks for your valuable time to give all this good information to us really help me to understand better 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
You are very welcome 🤗
Hello Master nice to see you back.
Thank you
Excellent video here. Keep the testing/fault finding videos coming please.
Thank you 🙏
Working on another one as we speak
@@Pure_electrical_training Why do you divide by 4 please?
excellent video, I am having a problem with ring main. I watched this one and the one before, so I know where to start and how easier find the issue.
many thanks ❤❤❤❤
It’s wonderful to have someone like you taking your time and uploading them thank you Adrian . I will have my am2 exam in few weeks time, so can I ask you about short circuit faults please, I was told that on the am2 exam the short circuit is only between live conductors not earth. Does that mean the fault is only between lives never lives to earth? Appreciate your help in advance
Thank you for the positive feedback and it’s my pleasure.
I would be very careful listening to advice from other people and go in with a fresh mind.
If you are ready for the AM2 it should be fairly easy, if not, it will be an amazing learning experience that you can reflect on.
Personally, I would assume that anything is and will be possible 👌
Thanks its really simplified work form i have enjoyed it
This video is perfect! I’m glad I’ve found it! Subbed
Thank you so much 🤗
Thank you for your advice, I would of never got through my college without you. God bless and hopefully one day I'll get to buy you a pint 👌
You are more than welcome 🙏
You can tell when a teacher actually understands what he's talking about rather than just memorising the patter.
Thank you 🙏
@@Pure_electrical_training whilst you're here...what's the quickest way of testing Ring Finals.
Also, what would be awesome would be a video for efficient/faster testing techniques in "lived in" domestic properties.
Thanks, brother, for this great explanation.
Very enjoyable and super informative
Always appreciate these vids
You are more than welcome 🤗
well explained video with good solid reasoning and explanation, just a couple of points, neutral IS a live conductor as is the LINE, it is fundamentally incorrect to call the brown wire the live conductor because the neutral is also a live conductor, it should always be line and neutral, also electrons absolutely DO NOT flow around the circuit, the current does but not the electrons, you could refer to circuit continuity in the Line (or Neutral or cpc) conductor or the particular figure 8 you have connected. I believe it is important to get all new apprentices and new electricians to use the correct terminology, on the bright side I was please to hear you refer to a "ring final circuit" and not the more usual and incorrect term "ring main"
Absolutely agree that the live is the line conductor and the neutral is also a live conductor. It’s hard to talk to a camera, rather than someone’s face, so I some times slip up with the terminology. I had to edit it a couple of times, as I refereed to the schedule of test results as the schedule of inspections 😂
I do use the correct terminology at work, and hadn’t even picked that up n the edit, so thank you for pointing it out. I’ll keep a better eye out next time 👍
I describe the flow of electrons, as I believe it helps the apprentices better imagine current flowing in the circuit, like using the analogy of water, hose pipes and pressure etc.
Thank you for taking the time to provide me with feedback, it all helps 🤝
That was very good information
Thank you 🙏
Very clear explanation 👌
Thank you
love the video hope you do some more fault finding videos cause I'm gunna need this for when I start level 3 not working at a spark at min so it'll be good knowledge
Have you seen my testing playlist?
@@Pure_electrical_training no ill have to check it out
Thanks, absolutely brilliant work
You are welcome
Thank you for sharing your work experience, and I hope there will be a traditional Chinese translation. Thank you🙂👍🙏🙏
Great vid as usual
Thank you Marlon 🤗
Proper testing like this a lot
Thank you Mike 🤝
Brilliant video 👏🏻
Cheers Adrian
You are more than welcome 🙏
Awesome stuff mate, Thank you!
May I kindly request a video on how to interpret electrical drawings please? I just struggle to comprehend most of the time- especially when I’m on a construction site. Just feel lost to be honest! Your help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers again.
What would be nice is to show a socket on the on a different circuit where we would obviously have no reading throughout.also a plug in voltage tester cant tell you if its an actual ring or not.nice video
Thank you
Great vid mate , I’m doing my Am2S in a few weeks , any more fault finding videos ?
Have you seen my AM2 playlist?
Excellent video very helpful many thanks please keep these videos coming
You are more than welcome 👊
Wouldnt a quick whip round with a KEW socket tester show immediately if there were any reverse polarity issues.
The KEW LOOPCHECK 107 seems like a new generation of simple fault finding devices
Super quick???
Yes, you cover this exact point v thoroughly at the end of the video.
However, isn't it a quick check towards faults in the system, guiding you to where you should pay attention?
Thoughts please?
Genuine question.
Tky.
Ps. V informative and helpful video.
V thorough.
Excellent!
A socket tester is only as good a neon wand
Great video,
Question.
Why not just visually check for polarity ?
That would involve taking off all the faceplates and people make mistakes when terminating, so they could make mistakes when checking.
Also, there would be no certificate to prove that the circuit is compliant for the next person to use.
There could also be a junction box somewhere that isn’t terminated correctly and is causing a fault.
It’s not just about polarity, it’s about verification and certification.
I hope that helps 👍
Thank you for the reply, I forgot to thank you when you did reply. Apologies.
Time to time I always come back to this video.
I have a question again…..
You said that checking visually would involve taking of the faceplates which I assume you mean that it takes too much time and people make mistakes terminating and also checking.
Q. How are supposed to get readings if we don’t take the faceplate off ?
Is it by putting those really long thin testing leads into the holes where the plugs go into without taking of the faceplate ?
Luckily for you I wasn’t one of your students because I would have probably made your life a misery by asking a 1000000 questions
So how would this actual test look? Are you taking socket fronts off or are you plugging in an MFT 'socket' attachment with the 3 leads plugged into it and doing it that way??
Ps great stuff this channel is amazing.
Just plugging the MFT into the front of the socket with a socket adapter and only two leads, connected into either R1 + R2 or R1 + Rn
Hello, thank you for the video. I might be missing something here but why are the three wires swapped on each socket?
Because the video is about fault finding on a ring and these are a combination of conductors terminated incorrectly.
Ah, ok cool! Thank you
Awesome 👌
Thank you 🙏
Genius...
Great!!!👍
Thank you 🤗
It’s a great explanation but in your AM2 you’d only have one fault not multiple to look for
You would think so wouldn’t you, but I’ve had a few people who have come back and said that they were sure that there was more than one fault in their installation.
One had 3 ohms on one bonding cable and open circuit on the other, so clearly more than one fault.
@@Pure_electrical_trainingI guess it encourages the student to completely overlook the circuit for faults. If you have only heard about two faults for one circuit on the bonding then that gives new learners the confidence it won’t be on a lighting or ring final which can throw off them off. Bonding is a lot easier on the day.
Is it right that main bonding conductors dont have to be under 0.05 they just have to be relevant reading to the length of the cable. Did my inspection and testing the other day and the assesor said that comment?
It’s true. If you read GN3 it has already calculated that 15m of 6mm is 0.05 Ohm’s, or 25m of 10mm
It’s there to give you an idea when testing a property, so you can use your engineering judgement
What would happen in theory if you went from the CU with a CPC throughout the circuit and a line conductor to a socket came out in neutral to the line of another socket out the neutral so on until you get back to the CU and connect to the neutral bar? I know it’s dodge but just got thinking about it would it work? 😅
It wouldn’t work, as the voltage would drop on each socket, and the appliances wouldn’t work properly, if at all.
Do you remember putting lamps in series at school and they got dimmer and dimmer.
Whereas, in parallel, they stayed the same
You have to still create a box for R1+RN on test sheet for AM2
Crazy isn’t it 🤷♂️
If it needs to be recorded, why isn’t there a space for it, why do you have to create your own 😂
@@Pure_electrical_training it's to catch you out to know if your competent 💯
cant you just plug in a socket tester? not being snide, as Im not a spark. Just interested
It’s a good question, unfortunately there are currently no socket testers that will detect a neutral/earth reversal, and they only have lights.
This will not give you any indication as to the condition of the circuit or accessories and any potential high resistance faults.
They are purely an indication device like a volt pen
👍👍👍👍👍
👍
The 0.05 tolerance is surely due to cable and connector resistance tolerances!
It could be a few things which is why it’s a tolerance 👍
In your AM2 you wouldn’t get two faults in the same scenario? You’ve just told me there is a fault between two sockets and a fault on another? 12:30
0.05 tolerance is allowed because of older analog MFTs, newer MFTs are digital, more precise.
If you don’t mind me asking, who told you that?
@@Pure_electrical_training Dr Electric, he has an abundance of info. (completing eicr in a domestic dwelling full dead testing) 27.00 mins in.
Lower case R...😁
The lower case R is for end to end on the ring, is that not what I put?
Exellent vid thanks..
You are more than welcome 🙏