Always followed a similar... "Trust but verify"... People miss things, don't understand how details fit, miscommunicate... Let the meters give you your sanity back.
Yeah it's hard to extract information from people in a logical series of events- I find people think you're trying to pin the blame on them when I'm purely asking to gather evidence/ information to facilitate locating the fault, and preventing it from happening again.
My colleague went to the local pizza shop to grab some dinner and they said we are shutting as there is no power. He said let me have a quick look and restored power. They then pointed at the menu board and said whatever you want it’s yours.
This happened to me a year back, just not at any sort of restaurant. I was going out to buy some jogging shoes and after finding the shoes I wanted, the store owner rung me up. We had some small talk throughout the time I was finding new shoes and he seemed to be a pretty nice guy, enjoyable to talk to. Anyways, as he rung me up, at some point I had mentioned that I was an electrician. He said if I wanted to come back, he'd pay me to check out a receptacle that stopped working in the back of his store. I said heck, why not I'll help the guy out and check it out real fast for him, free of charge. He was a super friendly guy that was helping me out the entire time I was in the store, I also had my hand tools and meter in my personal car for whatever reason (can't remember why, but good timimg haha). Was a perfect opportunity to do him a good deed and just help him out if it was an easy fix, sense I was there. Turned out to be a loose neutral in a Jbox up in the ceiling. Didn't take me long to find, maybe 10 minutes, and another 5 to fix it and head out. He did end up trying to ask me how much I owe him for fixing it, even though I had originally told him I'd do it for free. I declined his $. As I was walking out he came up and gave me a new sweater out of the sales floor of his shop. This was a nice one though, probably a good $80-$100... I've warn that thing probably over 100 times this year haha, absolutely my favorite sweater I own. Not only that, he had me come back because he wanted to do some light remodeling inside and outside his store. Ended up being a fairly big side job. He loved my work so now he's referring me to other clients of his. It's crazy how little kind gestures can sometimes turn into something much bigger. That pretty much the craziest thing that's happened to me so far when it comes to doing a kind gesture for someone.
Definatley, I find taking a 5-10 min break helps clear your good and get back at it, it's bad when you have limited access to accessories aswell doesn't help at all. Good job. 👍
@@goldengaming7499 As a Maintenance Electrician who has worked in factorys and electrical generation I totally agree, sometimes you need to walk away as you can be pulled down a rabbit hole an hour seems like 10 minutes and you can go on a wild goose chase. Walking away and not thinking about it generally helps re focus the mind.
And usually your first gut thourght ends up being the issue! ......the amount of times ive said to myself when i arrive "hummm it's as if theres a hidden switch turned off" or......(rcd faults) "bet its an outside light" 🤣🤣
@@omgthatsme2018 Ha. In my experience they just as often were hiding something... Like what the resident tinkerer had done or what faulty appliance had blown up then been whisked away. Even occasionally not owning up to the fact that a less skilled spark / doer of cash homers, had either caused a fault or ran away from a job because they couldn't handle it. Quite often I'd only find out once engaged on a job or when I'd solved the problem, that the customer (sometimes a main contractor) had only opted to call me in and pay a pro rate because their usual nitwit was stumped. 🤷🏻♂️
@James From experience 9 times out of 10 the customer will either tell you they've done something when they have not, or completely lead you off in a different direction. It's always best to use your own troubleshooting to diagnose an issue. This isn't to be ignorant or rude, quite the opposite. This saves both yourself the customer time and money.
You should do post commentary for all fault finding, it's much easier to digest. I felt like i was fault finding with you rather than being almost talked at. Good job
I’m a budding electrician with no qualifications as yet… I really enjoyed the post commentary, felt like I was with you in your head! Scary 😂 it felt good!
Dont apply for a job in a factory as a maintenance electrician , we have state of the art scada controlling plant dating from the 1950's ,PLC's made by different manufacturers that all use different software ethernet, controlnet,devicenet, canbus , miles and miles of cables , trunking packed with so many cables the lids dont fit , no drawings , everything covered in dirt and water , and production managers screaming to get it running ! best job in the world !
This makes me glad to know that here every power outlet, junction box and every bigger appliance needs to be labelled with the corresponding circuit breaker and corresponding fusebox. When used in a commercial setting.
Good on you Jordan. You are tenacious in your problem solving and in exlpaining your reasoning to us the viewer. Here in the U.S at least on commercial and industrial jobs we label the cover plates in the field with the Panel Number and Circuit Number and a help for identification and trouble shooting. Those Kreppe units draw a lot of power and the circuit may have been overloaded. Only time and another call will tell. Hope you got well payed for your efforts . More than creppes. This story is full of potential for puns and I could waffle on. No pancake boxes anywhere in the mix just crap everywhere. I think Cory might still be there sampling so its best that you took one for the team. He is the Richard Attinborough of Electricians. Did you grab yourself a cuppa.
Worked in one Indian restaurant kitchen and every piece of equipment and cupboard was on wheels and the floor and walls were tiled so that they could move everything and clean everywhere. Immaculate place and used the place ever since.
Very common to have more than one DB in a commercial / shop establishments. Once called to a Indian restaurant and in the kitchen the hand wash sink was all connected via flexible plumbing so it could be removed to access the DB. One of 4 !!!
I had a late night call when covering for a mates electrical business when he was on holiday, turned out to be a spa pool pump at a "Mens!!" club. Still scrubbing my tools clean. ( That was tools, plural).
I really do not get why places cannot be kept clean. My grandfather when running is cabinet making business years ago used to clean down all the tools, area and even hard to reach places every night so that it was clean for the next day. And every friday the place would get an extra going over.
@@bighands69 He was working for himself, I'd assume that most places employ the minimum amount of staff to run the shop, who clean just enough to hopefully be to standard
Radial circuits with multiple outlets in commercial kitchen environments are destined to be a problem. Practically everything seems to demand 3000w in them.
I think I would have followed the same process as you, the only thing that raised a flag for me was a single phase board for a power hungry commercial install, I was expecting to see a 3 phase board at first, good find though and keep up the good work.
Doing this for 30y + , fault finding and repairing is a way of life. mechanics, electrical, electronics or software,.... have done it all. Just going step by step and eliminating possible causes, amazing what your able to repair and recover if you put your mind to it. Personally in this case I would first have asked were the fuse box is, but well done
I hate commercial kitchens also! I bought some black rubber gloves early 2020 for the start of CV19. They come in very handy in those types of situations and for things like replacing cooker hoods, workling behind oven etc..
I would have added a note to the first DB to say that there was a 2nd in the basement. Remember it might be one of your guys who gets that job next time.
I suppose with the benefit of hindsight, which of course is 20/20, it would have been worth having a quick look around the premises including the basement very early on. Don't suppose I would have thought of it, but maybe one to remember for next time.
I've done it dozens of times and that is listen to the customer who means well but throws you away from the search. When she said she had checked the DB and all were on, in your mind it means it's something else, who would have thought to ask if there was more than one. As much as information gathering is good it does send you down rabbit holes.
Top tips, all hidden food prep areas are covered in grease, always wear disposable gloves saves your hands getting greasy and wipe tools down after use outside to remove all the grease etc, they also like it if you wear gloves they think youre being clean and not the other way around. Also where ever youre working in the above will usually be very busy so keep tools near you as they may well be tripped over. Always ask a member of staff to point out the fuse board and any other fuse boards before you start.
Good video Jordan, I love jobs like this and I also prefer to watch other YT Sparks doing these sort of videos rather than just talking to the camera, maybe it's just my attention span? Look forward to the next one and hopefully catch up soon!
I had a troubleshooting session in an underground car park last week. A lighting circuit kept tripping the circuit breaker. The fault was within one of the 25 fluorescent lamps. You are welcome to guess in which... Exactly, the last one I checked. The through-wiring in the lamp was laid directly along the ballast. The insulation has become brittle due to the heat and has caused a short circuit to PE. Troubleshooting is always fun.🤣
I feel your pain, in commercials, I regularly used to come across electrical cupboards used to store wet mops' and buckets...what could possibly go wrong
Insulation test on that circuit as well as loop and RCD followed by labeling of the circuit accessory to save some other poor sod the headache you just had would be my penny's worth
Commercial kitchens are the worst!! The grease and grime is to be expected, but how people can live with the junk stacked everywhere is beyond me. You probably spend more time moving stuff out the way than actually working. I'm glad you don't spend too much time slating others on their shoddy work as some RUclips electricians do.
Enjoyed video been there some many times . It would have nice to put a label on the sockets " fed from basement DB. Even wrote with a sharpy would have done .other pens are available. Keep up the good work nice to see some one that takes pride in their work.
Liked this vid, thanks. I would never certificated/passed this on a new install never mind during a periodic. I personally don't mind working in that kind of environment love all that stuff especially fault finding, very satisfying when you find and fix it. keep the videos coming like watching your stuff.
norwegian electrician here. why on earth didnt you start off searching the building for fuseboxes? - first thing i do is orientate myself with where all the fuseboxes are, even small hidden ones.
That's actually a very clean commercial kitchen!!! I didn't see a single roach or pile of mouse crap. I worked in Dallas as a sparky/refrigeration mechanic for years and I've never seen one as clean as yours mate.
Thanks for sharing Jordan, I really enjoy the fault finding videos..... Everyday is an opportunity to see or learn something new 👍🏼 As a commercial refrigeration mechanic, I feel your pain in the tight spaces/grease 🤢, not everyday you get a free lunch and parking.... Go buy a lotto ticket 😄
Are loose cables allowed like this in the UK? Most places I’ve worked (both EU and US) do not allow “permanent fixtures” with floating cables. At least put some clamps up so they’re out of the way.
A moment of relief when you find the second board 😊 We used to get call outs to a local pancake place and it was always a fight to see who would get the job as you were always guaranteed grub, they never took no for an answer either.
I spoke to my pat tester who does the equipment in my business. He had to do a PAT test on a live call center, he had to unplug each one from working terminals do the test and then plug them back in for the operator.
I always like to ask the customer as many questions to find out where the fault could have potentially started to get a better understanding of where to look. Sometimes they can be helpful, sometimes I get the, “well your the electrician”! Either way, I still exhaust all the simple stuff before I begin with taking faceplates off etc. Great feeling when you eventually do crack it though....
Did you find out what had tripped it? I had the same problem in an office - the cleaner would come in about 6pm and plug their hoover into a socket which had already quite a lot of equipment on a 16A mcb I had a call about 2 days later saying it had gone again and then we worked it out - bet they will be on the phone again
You’re right... that restaurant did look pretty “crêpe”. Always feels good once you’ve sorted the issue but I completely sympathise with you being in that kind of a setting whilst fault finding is not the best!
Hi Jordan. Do yourself a favour and get one of those signal generators that you clamp on the wire, you then use the "wand" to pickup the generated signal from that cable. Makes it easier to trace cables & identitfy which circuit is involved at the consumer unit if indeed any of them are... I know how you love new toys! Hopefully will save your customers money too.
It really is about time that commercial premises had proper drawings of all cable routings and user points. I stopped doing commercial callouts exactly because the average premises I visited were an absolute disgrace. Always an argument as to whether the tenant or landlord was responsible for the building fabric - generally, unlike domestic premises, the commercial tenant is responsible.
Have you ever tried a Dead Circuit Tracer like the Socket&See? I would assume that would have been a safe and quick way to eliminate other sockets and circuits and would have instantly helped you realise that the cable wasn't on the first dis board.
Done loads of commercial kitchens in my 40 years, the best ones are the ones where the whole front of the CU including the MCBs/RCDs are thick with grease 😂
I was called out to a restaurants outside socket without power 2 days ago. I could see where the cables entered the building and found a SFCU in the off position behind a tin of coffee - one click and the power was back on. They had accidentally knocked the switch off. Turned out to be an easy job.
Worked in the kitchen of a local restaurant once....never went back to that restaurant and never worked in a commercial kitchen again. Spent hours cleaning the grease off of my tools, tool boxes and power tools etc. 🤢
When I do service work in kitchens I quickly get a vibe for whether I will be eating in that establishment ever again based on how much crap i find in the voids between the appliances!!
Amazing that insurance companies tolerate that type of electrical distribution. Sockets and cables not labelled, presumably no drawings available etc, you would imagine this type of wiring would only exist in a war-torn country. Thanks for your presentation, I think it's one of your best - but depressing to think that installation can be acceptable in 2021.
"Can you add a double socket underneath the bar?" Sure! Flat on the floor, kinda twisted sideways, wedged in between the beer cooler and the sink plumbing, installing the socket on the wall behind the plumbing. Worst work position ever! OK, disconnecting a dishwasher for a good friend, at 1 AM inside a 400 mm wide and 600 mm deep kitchen cupboard, only to discover she in fact had NOT turned off the water was probably worse but we got a good laugh out of it once we had the kitchen dry again around 2 AM :-D
A few yrs ago i worked ( on a sunday) in a local chinese restaurant that was super clean & smart in the main dining area, but the kitchen was an absolute disgrace with food & jars etc all left out with flys buzzing around everywhere, i also discovered that they had a 10mm swa fed from the incoming side of the main meter to various outbuildings!!!! No pancake rolls for me that time.
Not an electrician, but I was a phone guy. I have been in more than a few restaurant basements chasing faults. All I can say is. it can cure you from wanting to eat out. One in particular. Chasing a wire in a crawl space. Right under the kitchen. They had a busted sewer line from the bathroom. And it had been broke for some time. I would guess 6 inches of poop everywhere. I told the guy. You need to get that fixed before I go down there. I did run them a new wire on the outside of the building to the credit card machine. I could at least clear my ticket.
I was maritime electrician before I was diagnosed epilepsy. One time at shipyard i was installing cat6 wire at passenger ships night club from bar to dj booth. Trough bar desk where the beer etc taps where to roof and down to dj booth. That was pain in the ***. The bar desk air vents was so small you can just fit your hand trough and there was partitions inside the desk where the taps pipes where run trough from holes. The holes in the desk partitions where the point where I needed to get the cable trough. If you but one hand inside from one air vent and another hand from another you just were able to touch your longest fingers from side to side. All that sugar stuff, dirt etc inside that table maked the job terrible. My worst cable install to this date.
During my working life one of the hardest faults to find would be neutral fault. i.e.. A break in a neutral loop especially with machinery where often the neutral would be linked from one contactor or relay to another. With hard wired circuits, often a cable would break exactly where it entered the terminal.
Before I got a sweet Corp gig I was an IT tech on site and we had lots of restaurants POS terminals I supported. It's amazing how nasty the wiring gets in these places. Greasy, sticky, slimy, moldy, gritty all at the same time.
I've been doing low voltage for for the past 5 years, i was taught to start at the control panel and work your way out to the field. He did the opposite lol but still arrive at the same conclusion.
I do Portable applience testing in commercial places. One place I did, all the sockets behing the bar were so well covered in splashes, the Sugar had glued all the plugs in place. Pools of Beer and soft drinks were under the tills. After a long talk to the manager, he got a team to strip the whole thing and clean it all. Not part of PAT Testing I hear you cry.!
I enjoy these fault finding videos! It's great to see how you think things through. In the single phase board, at 7:06 I was just wondering why you missed out the MCB directly next to the left hand RCCB?
@@artisanelectrics you’ll just have to order a Cybertruck, you know it makes sense. Or there’s always, Truckla: ruclips.net/video/R35gWBtLCYg/видео.html
@@artisanelectrics I dont think you should either... how you supposed to introduce yourself as the md of a multiple-engineer company, charging top end prices +vat and then rock up in a vivaro
You done well there. I do a lot of commercial work , and did a lot for Sainsbury’s .. there shops were ok. Clean and the Installations were good . But small supermarkets , restaurants and pubs , were a nightmare especially if the owner did not know were all the distribution boards were , junk every were I use to leave my tool box outside till I inspected the shop because many had cockroaches. And I did not want to take them home .. but good job as many now can see how not all jobs are nice and clean ...
In theory, they should all be labelled (CB-5, S/B-2) or similar and many start off with good intentions and practice... but... the fact is many of these older commercial units have been chopped and changed over the years to suit the current occupiers needs, that most bear no resemblance to the original system at all- of course each new addition should be labeled up as well, but as they often DIY or get 'the cheapest guy' in, it usually doesn't happen... (add in walls installed and taken out, false ceilings added and when these are done, often cables are cut, shortened, extended or 'pulled to the side'- a cable often does not run where 'commonsense' dictate it does...) The worst I have seen was a single circuit, that ran the entire length of the shop- FIVE TIMES, before coming out at a single (vital for the new shop fit-out) outlet... Which was running right at the outlet limit to boot... It had obviously been moved a considerable number of times over the years, and often they just 'added a new length' whenever it had been moved, until the total length of the cable was far longer than the property itself!!! (it had so many junction boxes (and even just BP connectors in the ceiling sans junction box) that the voltage was flickering up and down under load- combination of so many joins and aging screw connectors, and a run that was now right at the limits re voltage drop/conductor size- you wouldn't have thought it would be an issue normally, but the sheer length of this run was approaching over 150m!!!! in 2.5mm.... A fault in one of these can be a real test of your diagnostic and 'outside the box' thinking- and your flexibility (mental and physical lol)
After observing the rodent activity you should have tested circuit before energising. This is a common fault with electricians. Trips go out for a reason. By energising before at the least unplugging the appliance put others at risk.
Amazing that more business owners don't require electrical installation diagrams and documentation for the it business...their money making depends on it after all.
I was just wondering why you did not PAT test the appliances that plug into that circuit where the breaker had tripped... something made it trip, surely.
I actually like those jobs. 9 out of 10 times it is a version of what has been shown here. Working predominantly in Supermarkets if you are being told to check a socket, ask when it stopped working. A few times they told me, the socket isn't working for a week or so just to find out it wasn't connected to anything for years. And if this has been confirmed and all breakers are on, there HAS to be another panel. Usually you're dealing with regular workers and they don't live there so why would they know. But there has been some headbutting when you ask those questions, I have to admit. On the other hand I reduced my risk of opening difficult to reach maybe dirty places to check the lines.
Awful job, but you sorted that very well I think. You earned your money just moving stuff out of your way. I am a retired electrician but luckily worked in mines and factories so didn't have do do that sort of work. Thanks for sharing your work.
Nice one pal good to see you doing the job yourself and not getting someone else who works for you to do it why did you not do a IR test on that radial cable and what do you think tripped the mcb
That's the first thing I do when an outlet does not work, remove the outlet out of its housing because obviously the outlet was perfectly fine until someone decided to remove the outlet from it. Also, who called you? The manager? Did that person bother to call the owner of the building to see if maybe there was another panel somewhere that this person could have checked before paying a hefty electrician fee?
After many years of going to problems like this , the first thing I make sure is never take the customers knowledge or opinion as gospel, even if they’ve lived there all their life !!!
Real world loads of junk and obstacles in the way and absolute night to trace, fault find and sort . I sympathise with you, this is what must electricans plumber and trademen got to deal with literally every day.😅😮😢
The funny bit when at college we weren't told that crawling in mice Sh***t was part of the game however in fault finding, it helps you keep your sense humour and focused. Great Job😉👏
they should make it law that every cable should have were its going to every 4 feet of cable .It juts makes sense and will save a hell of time for the home user or electrician or fireman .You can make a rubber stamp that prints it on to save time
I've been a chef for 12 years, retraining as a spark, so your chanel is a good inside look at the job. i have to tell you that is a grim hole!!.. not to say dirty, but such a hectic mess gives me palpitations 🤣🤣😱
Lucky that basement isn’t full of damp most are around there. I Spend most of my time on the downing site behind grand arcade doing remedial’s. Absolute nightmare!
they don't always pin cables up as the fixings puncture the face of the units, had a spark wreck £10K counter fronts punching through , plus they harbour grime and act as access routs and runways for rodents , all made cheap as chips now what punters want plus its easy to move socket points around when the staff move undercounter fittments
John; it's been a small guilty pleasure of mine for quite a while now to look for your comment on an artisan video and see how many times you would keep calling him Jondon. today is a sad day.
Love seeing videos like these, it also shows how horrid henry the hoover can be, taking the cover off the single phase consumer unit whilst you weren't looking 😛
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Golden rule, believe no one check and test everything
That’s what 30 odd years have taught me
Always followed a similar... "Trust but verify"... People miss things, don't understand how details fit, miscommunicate... Let the meters give you your sanity back.
Yeah it's hard to extract information from people in a logical series of events- I find people think you're trying to pin the blame on them when I'm purely asking to gather evidence/ information to facilitate locating the fault, and preventing it from happening again.
My colleague went to the local pizza shop to grab some dinner and they said we are shutting as there is no power. He said let me have a quick look and restored power. They then pointed at the menu board and said whatever you want it’s yours.
Nice
Result!
This happened to me a year back, just not at any sort of restaurant. I was going out to buy some jogging shoes and after finding the shoes I wanted, the store owner rung me up. We had some small talk throughout the time I was finding new shoes and he seemed to be a pretty nice guy, enjoyable to talk to. Anyways, as he rung me up, at some point I had mentioned that I was an electrician. He said if I wanted to come back, he'd pay me to check out a receptacle that stopped working in the back of his store. I said heck, why not I'll help the guy out and check it out real fast for him, free of charge. He was a super friendly guy that was helping me out the entire time I was in the store, I also had my hand tools and meter in my personal car for whatever reason (can't remember why, but good timimg haha). Was a perfect opportunity to do him a good deed and just help him out if it was an easy fix, sense I was there. Turned out to be a loose neutral in a Jbox up in the ceiling. Didn't take me long to find, maybe 10 minutes, and another 5 to fix it and head out. He did end up trying to ask me how much I owe him for fixing it, even though I had originally told him I'd do it for free. I declined his $. As I was walking out he came up and gave me a new sweater out of the sales floor of his shop. This was a nice one though, probably a good $80-$100... I've warn that thing probably over 100 times this year haha, absolutely my favorite sweater I own. Not only that, he had me come back because he wanted to do some light remodeling inside and outside his store. Ended up being a fairly big side job. He loved my work so now he's referring me to other clients of his. It's crazy how little kind gestures can sometimes turn into something much bigger. That pretty much the craziest thing that's happened to me so far when it comes to doing a kind gesture for someone.
@@DJayAce4
@@DJayAce4 The IRS does not like that... can't do anything against it, but Uncle Sam is not happy for lost taxes! ;)
Worst thing about fault finding is when you start to lose the head and you stop thinking clearly.
Yep
Definatley, I find taking a 5-10 min break helps clear your good and get back at it, it's bad when you have limited access to accessories aswell doesn't help at all. Good job. 👍
@@goldengaming7499 As a Maintenance Electrician who has worked in factorys and electrical generation I totally agree, sometimes you need to walk away as you can be pulled down a rabbit hole an hour seems like 10 minutes and you can go on a wild goose chase. Walking away and not thinking about it generally helps re focus the mind.
Yep definitely walk away for a minute.
And usually your first gut thourght ends up being the issue! ......the amount of times ive said to myself when i arrive "hummm it's as if theres a hidden switch turned off" or......(rcd faults) "bet its an outside light" 🤣🤣
And after all the work, customer be like "you're charging WHAT just for switching a breaker back on????"
🤣
One thing I've learnt over the years is to ignore customers presumed diagnosis.. think for yourself and think clearly 🙂🤘🏻
I disagree! Sometimes I feel the customers are trying to tell you something.
@@omgthatsme2018 Ha. In my experience they just as often were hiding something... Like what the resident tinkerer had done or what faulty appliance had blown up then been whisked away. Even occasionally not owning up to the fact that a less skilled spark / doer of cash homers, had either caused a fault or ran away from a job because they couldn't handle it. Quite often I'd only find out once engaged on a job or when I'd solved the problem, that the customer (sometimes a main contractor) had only opted to call me in and pay a pro rate because their usual nitwit was stumped. 🤷🏻♂️
IT here. Never trust a customer/user that says they've done XYZ :)
@James From experience 9 times out of 10 the customer will either tell you they've done something when they have not, or completely lead you off in a different direction. It's always best to use your own troubleshooting to diagnose an issue. This isn't to be ignorant or rude, quite the opposite. This saves both yourself the customer time and money.
@James stfu
You should do post commentary for all fault finding, it's much easier to digest. I felt like i was fault finding with you rather than being almost talked at. Good job
Thanks
Fully agree Doctor Electric has been doing the same recently and it works a treat.
I’m a budding electrician with no qualifications as yet… I really enjoyed the post commentary, felt like I was with you in your head! Scary 😂 it felt good!
Dont apply for a job in a factory as a maintenance electrician , we have state of the art scada controlling plant dating from the 1950's ,PLC's made by different manufacturers that all use different software ethernet, controlnet,devicenet, canbus , miles and miles of cables , trunking packed with so many cables the lids dont fit , no drawings , everything covered in dirt and water , and production managers screaming to get it running ! best job in the world !
This makes me glad to know that here every power outlet, junction box and every bigger appliance needs to be labelled with the corresponding circuit breaker and corresponding fusebox. When used in a commercial setting.
Good on you Jordan.
You are tenacious in your problem solving and in exlpaining your reasoning to us the viewer. Here in the U.S at least on commercial and industrial jobs we label the cover plates in the field with the Panel Number and Circuit Number and a help for identification and trouble shooting. Those Kreppe units draw a lot of power and the circuit may have been overloaded. Only time and another call will tell. Hope you got well payed for your efforts . More than creppes.
This story is full of potential for puns and I could waffle on. No pancake boxes anywhere in the mix just crap everywhere. I think Cory might still be there sampling so its best that you took one for the team. He is the Richard Attinborough of Electricians.
Did you grab yourself a cuppa.
Worked in one Indian restaurant kitchen and every piece of equipment and cupboard was on wheels and the floor and walls were tiled so that they could move everything and clean everywhere. Immaculate place and used the place ever since.
cracking film - you've captured so much of the real world of a faulting engineer that's never actually shown on other videos Thumbs up !!!!!!
Very common to have more than one DB in a commercial / shop establishments.
Once called to a Indian restaurant and in the kitchen the hand wash sink was all connected via flexible plumbing so it could be removed to access the DB.
One of 4 !!!
Excellent video. Full credit to you for not only doing your job in awkward circumstances, but filming it to a good standard as you went. Bravo!
I love how you showed your work then added the voice over, very nice !!
Thanks
I agree the voice overs on the fault finding is so much more effective.
I had a late night call when covering for a mates electrical business when he was on holiday, turned out to be a spa pool pump at a "Mens!!" club. Still scrubbing my tools clean. ( That was tools, plural).
I really do not get why places cannot be kept clean. My grandfather when running is cabinet making business years ago used to clean down all the tools, area and even hard to reach places every night so that it was clean for the next day.
And every friday the place would get an extra going over.
@@bighands69 He was working for himself, I'd assume that most places employ the minimum amount of staff to run the shop, who clean just enough to hopefully be to standard
Radial circuits with multiple outlets in commercial kitchen environments are destined to be a problem. Practically everything seems to demand 3000w in them.
Change your camera from 60 to 50hz. That should stop the banding and flickering from certain lights. Like when you were checking the consumer unit.
I think I would have followed the same process as you, the only thing that raised a flag for me was a single phase board for a power hungry commercial install, I was expecting to see a 3 phase board at first, good find though and keep up the good work.
A place like that would not need three phase.
Most commercial installs have 3 phase supplies whether they need it or not... if you find a single phase you've not found the primary DB
Doing this for 30y + , fault finding and repairing is a way of life. mechanics, electrical, electronics or software,.... have done it all. Just going step by step and eliminating possible causes, amazing what your able to repair and recover if you put your mind to it. Personally in this case I would first have asked were the fuse box is, but well done
I was just waiting for it to trip again once you put everything back together and were ready to leave.
🤣👍
Yep, Keep clients happy is the most important thing, especially food outlets.
My local chippy always reward me with haddock and chips.😆
I hate commercial kitchens also! I bought some black rubber gloves early 2020 for the start of CV19. They come in very handy in those types of situations and for things like replacing cooker hoods, workling behind oven etc..
Love the style of this video, you showing us your process, and even how the voice over matches your mood/thoughts at the time, great stuff
I would have added a note to the first DB to say that there was a 2nd in the basement. Remember it might be one of your guys who gets that job next time.
I suppose with the benefit of hindsight, which of course is 20/20, it would have been worth having a quick look around the premises including the basement very early on. Don't suppose I would have thought of it, but maybe one to remember for next time.
I've done it dozens of times and that is listen to the customer who means well but throws you away from the search. When she said she had checked the DB and all were on, in your mind it means it's something else, who would have thought to ask if there was more than one. As much as information gathering is good it does send you down rabbit holes.
Totally agree
Top tips, all hidden food prep areas are covered in grease, always wear disposable gloves saves your hands getting greasy and wipe tools down after use outside to remove all the grease etc, they also like it if you wear gloves they think youre being clean and not the other way around.
Also where ever youre working in the above will usually be very busy so keep tools near you as they may well be tripped over.
Always ask a member of staff to point out the fuse board and any other fuse boards before you start.
Good video Jordan, I love jobs like this and I also prefer to watch other YT Sparks doing these sort of videos rather than just talking to the camera, maybe it's just my attention span?
Look forward to the next one and hopefully catch up soon!
The master speaks your video commentary is top notch just mentioned you to Jordan that he should follow your lead👍🏾
I had a troubleshooting session in an underground car park last week. A lighting circuit kept tripping the circuit breaker. The fault was within one of the 25 fluorescent lamps. You are welcome to guess in which...
Exactly, the last one I checked.
The through-wiring in the lamp was laid directly along the ballast. The insulation has become brittle due to the heat and has caused a short circuit to PE.
Troubleshooting is always fun.🤣
What you are looking for will always be in the last place you look - logic.
I feel your pain, in commercials, I regularly used to come across electrical cupboards used to store wet mops' and buckets...what could possibly go wrong
Insulation test on that circuit as well as loop and RCD followed by labeling of the circuit accessory to save some other poor sod the headache you just had would be my penny's worth
100% IR test otherwise how do you know the trip wasn't caused by a damaged cable.
Commercial kitchens are the worst!! The grease and grime is to be expected, but how people can live with the junk stacked everywhere is beyond me. You probably spend more time moving stuff out the way than actually working. I'm glad you don't spend too much time slating others on their shoddy work as some RUclips electricians do.
Enjoyed video been there some many times . It would have nice to put a label on the sockets " fed from basement DB. Even wrote with a sharpy would have done .other pens are available. Keep up the good work nice to see some one that takes pride in their work.
Liked this vid, thanks. I would never certificated/passed this on a new install never mind during a periodic. I personally don't mind working in that kind of environment love all that stuff especially fault finding, very satisfying when you find and fix it. keep the videos coming like watching your stuff.
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ABC - Accept nothing, Believe no one, Challenge everything
Not volt pen ? 😂
@@busted4n6 yes, same as ‘Assume nothing, test everything’.
norwegian electrician here. why on earth didnt you start off searching the building for fuseboxes? - first thing i do is orientate myself with where all the fuseboxes are, even small hidden ones.
@@Liffero exactly , no obvious damage to wiring quite obviously another DB somewhere or supply.
That's actually a very clean commercial kitchen!!! I didn't see a single roach or pile of mouse crap. I worked in Dallas as a sparky/refrigeration mechanic for years and I've never seen one as clean as yours mate.
Thanks for sharing Jordan, I really enjoy the fault finding videos..... Everyday is an opportunity to see or learn something new 👍🏼
As a commercial refrigeration mechanic, I feel your pain in the tight spaces/grease 🤢, not everyday you get a free lunch and parking.... Go buy a lotto ticket 😄
Are loose cables allowed like this in the UK? Most places I’ve worked (both EU and US) do not allow “permanent fixtures” with floating cables. At least put some clamps up so they’re out of the way.
A moment of relief when you find the second board 😊 We used to get call outs to a local pancake place and it was always a fight to see who would get the job as you were always guaranteed grub, they never took no for an answer either.
Yep!
I spoke to my pat tester who does the equipment in my business. He had to do a PAT test on a live call center, he had to unplug each one from working terminals do the test and then plug them back in for the operator.
I always like to ask the customer as many questions to find out where the fault could have potentially started to get a better understanding of where to look. Sometimes they can be helpful, sometimes I get the, “well your the electrician”! Either way, I still exhaust all the simple stuff before I begin with taking faceplates off etc. Great feeling when you eventually do crack it though....
Yeah totally
Did you find out what had tripped it? I had the same problem in an office - the cleaner would come in about 6pm and plug their hoover into a socket which had already quite a lot of equipment on a 16A mcb I had a call about 2 days later saying it had gone again and then we worked it out - bet they will be on the phone again
That was easy... When in doubt trace it out.. Did this for 42 years.. ❤️ it.
i stoped doing faults to shops years ago as wiring was always a mess, parking was a nightmare, and getting paid was a bigger nightmare.
It's always lovely beneath bar tops and I think the plumber seems to have had shares in a certain push-fit pipe fitting company
Gloves man !!
Awkwardly smiling as you pass the customer and still have not found the fault🤯😬😅then the big puff of chest when u find it😤😎
You’re right... that restaurant did look pretty “crêpe”. Always feels good once you’ve sorted the issue but I completely sympathise with you being in that kind of a setting whilst fault finding is not the best!
Hi Jordan. Do yourself a favour and get one of those signal generators that you clamp on the wire, you then use the "wand" to pickup the generated signal from that cable. Makes it easier to trace cables & identitfy which circuit is involved at the consumer unit if indeed any of them are... I know how you love new toys! Hopefully will save your customers money too.
Very confused, is there a reason you wouldn't attempt to find / ask about any other distribution boards as a first port of call
It really is about time that commercial premises had proper drawings of all cable routings and user points. I stopped doing commercial callouts exactly because the average premises I visited were an absolute disgrace. Always an argument as to whether the tenant or landlord was responsible for the building fabric - generally, unlike domestic premises, the commercial tenant is responsible.
Have you ever tried a Dead Circuit Tracer like the Socket&See? I would assume that would have been a safe and quick way to eliminate other sockets and circuits and would have instantly helped you realise that the cable wasn't on the first dis board.
Done loads of commercial kitchens in my 40 years, the best ones are the ones where the whole front of the CU including the MCBs/RCDs are thick with grease 😂
I was called out to a restaurants outside socket without power 2 days ago. I could see where the cables entered the building and found a SFCU in the off position behind a tin of coffee - one click and the power was back on. They had accidentally knocked the switch off. Turned out to be an easy job.
Worked in the kitchen of a local restaurant once....never went back to that restaurant and never worked in a commercial kitchen again. Spent hours cleaning the grease off of my tools, tool boxes and power tools etc. 🤢
When I do service work in kitchens I quickly get a vibe for whether I will be eating in that establishment ever again based on how much crap i find in the voids between the appliances!!
Haha so true
Amazing that insurance companies tolerate that type of electrical distribution. Sockets and cables not labelled, presumably no drawings available etc, you would imagine this type of wiring would only exist in a war-torn country. Thanks for your presentation, I think it's one of your best - but depressing to think that installation can be acceptable in 2021.
"Can you add a double socket underneath the bar?"
Sure! Flat on the floor, kinda twisted sideways, wedged in between the beer cooler and the sink plumbing, installing the socket on the wall behind the plumbing. Worst work position ever! OK, disconnecting a dishwasher for a good friend, at 1 AM inside a 400 mm wide and 600 mm deep kitchen cupboard, only to discover she in fact had NOT turned off the water was probably worse but we got a good laugh out of it once we had the kitchen dry again around 2 AM :-D
A few yrs ago i worked ( on a sunday) in a local chinese restaurant that was super clean & smart in the main dining area, but the kitchen was an absolute disgrace with food & jars etc all left out with flys buzzing around everywhere, i also discovered that they had a 10mm swa fed from the incoming side of the main meter to various outbuildings!!!!
No pancake rolls for me that time.
Not an electrician, but I was a phone guy.
I have been in more than a few restaurant basements chasing faults.
All I can say is. it can cure you from wanting to eat out.
One in particular. Chasing a wire in a crawl space. Right under the kitchen.
They had a busted sewer line from the bathroom. And it had been broke for some time.
I would guess 6 inches of poop everywhere.
I told the guy. You need to get that fixed before I go down there.
I did run them a new wire on the outside of the building to the credit card machine.
I could at least clear my ticket.
Haven't heard of you before, and don't know why I watched this, but I enjoyed it, and have 2 other videos in tabs ready to watch.
Thanks! Welcome to the channel!
I was maritime electrician before I was diagnosed epilepsy. One time at shipyard i was installing cat6 wire at passenger ships night club from bar to dj booth. Trough bar desk where the beer etc taps where to roof and down to dj booth. That was pain in the ***. The bar desk air vents was so small you can just fit your hand trough and there was partitions inside the desk where the taps pipes where run trough from holes. The holes in the desk partitions where the point where I needed to get the cable trough. If you but one hand inside from one air vent and another hand from another you just were able to touch your longest fingers from side to side. All that sugar stuff, dirt etc inside that table maked the job terrible. My worst cable install to this date.
I'd have pulled the conductors out of the rcbo and run some IR tests - just to be 100% sure the circuit was healthy.
You’d probably know pretty soon after putting some load on the circuit if it wasn’t. With it being on a working rcbo and all
During my working life one of the hardest faults to find would be neutral fault. i.e.. A break in a neutral loop especially with machinery where often the neutral would be linked from one contactor or relay to another. With hard wired circuits, often a cable would break exactly where it entered the terminal.
Before I got a sweet Corp gig I was an IT tech on site and we had lots of restaurants POS terminals I supported. It's amazing how nasty the wiring gets in these places. Greasy, sticky, slimy, moldy, gritty all at the same time.
Damn man, you started at the end and worked your way back...
I've been doing low voltage for for the past 5 years, i was taught to start at the control panel and work your way out to the field. He did the opposite lol but still arrive at the same conclusion.
@@Lewdacris916 +1 Always start at the beginning. It's only single phase not rocket science
I do Portable applience testing in commercial places.
One place I did, all the sockets behing the bar were so well covered in splashes, the Sugar had glued all the plugs in place. Pools of Beer and soft drinks were under the tills.
After a long talk to the manager, he got a team to strip the whole thing and clean it all.
Not part of PAT Testing I hear you cry.!
I enjoy these fault finding videos! It's great to see how you think things through. In the single phase board, at 7:06 I was just wondering why you missed out the MCB directly next to the left hand RCCB?
I think it was a lighting circuit which was easily identified by the 1.5mm cable.
Wow well spotted that was actually a mistake
Ah I was wondering the same thing!
A really posh works van you have there Jorden, ladders on back seat and tools in boot.
For such a professional outfit, it’s a surprisingly unprofessional look...
I just can’t warrant buying a van at the moment as I’m barely ever on the tools
@@artisanelectrics you’ll just have to order a Cybertruck, you know it makes sense.
Or there’s always, Truckla: ruclips.net/video/R35gWBtLCYg/видео.html
@@artisanelectrics I dont think you should either... how you supposed to introduce yourself as the md of a multiple-engineer company, charging top end prices +vat and then rock up in a vivaro
Wouldn't look right...
I know it might seem like a small thing, but wearing insulated gloves could save your life one day Jordan.
👍
You done well there. I do a lot of commercial work , and did a lot for Sainsbury’s .. there shops were ok. Clean and the Installations were good . But small supermarkets , restaurants and pubs , were a nightmare especially if the owner did not know were all the distribution boards were , junk every were I use to leave my tool box outside till I inspected the shop because many had cockroaches. And I did not want to take them home .. but good job as many now can see how not all jobs are nice and clean ...
Cracking video, and interesting. I suggest all the sockets are labelled with where they are fed from, would have made your job much simpler.
Thanks yeah you’re right
In theory, they should all be labelled (CB-5, S/B-2) or similar and many start off with good intentions and practice...
but...
the fact is many of these older commercial units have been chopped and changed over the years to suit the current occupiers needs, that most bear no resemblance to the original system at all- of course each new addition should be labeled up as well, but as they often DIY or get 'the cheapest guy' in, it usually doesn't happen...
(add in walls installed and taken out, false ceilings added and when these are done, often cables are cut, shortened, extended or 'pulled to the side'- a cable often does not run where 'commonsense' dictate it does...)
The worst I have seen was a single circuit, that ran the entire length of the shop- FIVE TIMES, before coming out at a single (vital for the new shop fit-out) outlet...
Which was running right at the outlet limit to boot...
It had obviously been moved a considerable number of times over the years, and often they just 'added a new length' whenever it had been moved, until the total length of the cable was far longer than the property itself!!!
(it had so many junction boxes (and even just BP connectors in the ceiling sans junction box) that the voltage was flickering up and down under load- combination of so many joins and aging screw connectors, and a run that was now right at the limits re voltage drop/conductor size- you wouldn't have thought it would be an issue normally, but the sheer length of this run was approaching over 150m!!!! in 2.5mm....
A fault in one of these can be a real test of your diagnostic and 'outside the box' thinking- and your flexibility (mental and physical lol)
Great video. Actually felt like I was there thinking 'what could it be?' Great you found the hidden DB
After observing the rodent activity you should have tested circuit before energising. This is a common fault with electricians. Trips go out for a reason. By energising before at the least unplugging the appliance put others at risk.
Amazing that more business owners don't require electrical installation diagrams and documentation for the it business...their money making depends on it after all.
I was just wondering why you did not PAT test the appliances that plug into that circuit where the breaker had tripped... something made it trip, surely.
Yeah but they were running fine off another circuit and I didn’t have a PAT tester with me
Love these vids, fascinating seeing how untidy these installs are in shops.
I actually like those jobs. 9 out of 10 times it is a version of what has been shown here.
Working predominantly in Supermarkets if you are being told to check a socket, ask when it stopped working.
A few times they told me, the socket isn't working for a week or so just to find out it wasn't connected to anything for years.
And if this has been confirmed and all breakers are on, there HAS to be another panel.
Usually you're dealing with regular workers and they don't live there so why would they know.
But there has been some headbutting when you ask those questions, I have to admit.
On the other hand I reduced my risk of opening difficult to reach maybe dirty places to check the lines.
❤️ I am doing a on line course 😌
This help 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for sharing 🎉🎉
Bit of safe isolation before screwing those metalclads back up. Maybe check the terminals are tight. Hate working in restaurants!
Awful job, but you sorted that very well I think.
You earned your money just moving stuff out of your way.
I am a retired electrician but luckily worked in mines and factories so didn't have do do that sort of work.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Least it was a simple job. Pain finding cable but that’s what those places are like.
Nice to see you labelled it up for the next person :)
I would have been tempted to also put a coloured tape on the cable every now and again to differentiate it (for next time)
Nice one pal good to see you doing the job yourself and not getting someone else who works for you to do it why did you not do a IR test on that radial cable and what do you think tripped the mcb
That's the first thing I do when an outlet does not work, remove the outlet out of its housing because obviously the outlet was perfectly fine until someone decided to remove the outlet from it. Also, who called you? The manager? Did that person bother to call the owner of the building to see if maybe there was another panel somewhere that this person could have checked before paying a hefty electrician fee?
After many years of going to problems like this , the first thing I make sure is never take the customers knowledge or opinion as gospel, even if they’ve lived there all their life !!!
So true
That's related to my axiom for finding lost objects: if it's lost, then something that somebody believes about its location is false.
Real world loads of junk and obstacles in the way and absolute night to trace, fault find and sort . I sympathise with you, this is what must electricans plumber and trademen got to deal with literally every day.😅😮😢
Great job, thanks for sharing. Looked a nightmare situation.
I work in schools all day , between parking far away, carrying tools and all the noise
The funny bit when at college we weren't told that crawling in mice Sh***t was part of the game however in fault finding, it helps you keep your sense humour and focused. Great Job😉👏
Haha so true
I tend to get bitten by spiders when fault finding 😅 not good for someone who's terrified of spiders lol
they should make it law that every cable should have were its going to every 4 feet of cable .It juts makes sense and will save a hell of time for the home user or electrician or fireman .You can make a rubber stamp that prints it on to save time
Jordan love the videos but man the adverts doing my head in 😣
I once worked on illuminated signs above a huge wok stir fry place, everything covered in grease residue 😵💫
well done ! always fun when you get these jobs come in !
I've been a chef for 12 years, retraining as a spark, so your chanel is a good inside look at the job. i have to tell you that is a grim hole!!.. not to say dirty, but such a hectic mess gives me palpitations 🤣🤣😱
Lucky that basement isn’t full of damp most are around there. I Spend most of my time on the downing site behind grand arcade doing remedial’s. Absolute nightmare!
they don't always pin cables up as the fixings puncture the face of the units, had a spark wreck £10K counter fronts punching through , plus they harbour grime and act as access routs and runways for rodents , all made cheap as chips now what punters want plus its easy to move socket points around when the staff move undercounter fittments
Hi Jordan I always hate emergency fault finding jobs especially tight spaces
Totally
John; it's been a small guilty pleasure of mine for quite a while now to look for your comment on an artisan video and see how many times you would keep calling him Jondon. today is a sad day.
Love seeing videos like these, it also shows how horrid henry the hoover can be, taking the cover off the single phase consumer unit whilst you weren't looking 😛