Seth, there were a couple spots where you needed a land and had consider and brainstorm in hand, and chose to cast the brainstorm. It’s usually better there to cast consider on endstep instead of brainstorm, especially if you don’t have a fetch, because you’ll end up seeing the same number of cards without brainstorm locking yourself.
The whole will Timeless kill Historic conversation is silly. Did Pioneer kill Modern, did Modern Kill Legacy or better yet why is Modern more popular on MTGO if its a zero sum "i want to play the most powerful format and nothing else" situation. Ive been playing Mtg since 1995 and have always looked at new formats as just new ways to play the game.
Well, Modern didn't kill Legacy, WotC replacing Legacy support WITH Modern pretty much killed it. Not many are saying Historic will literally cease to exist all together, just it won't be supported and/or played much. Alchemy is pretty much dead yet it's still supported. I think WotC will make changes in historic to make it more different than Timeless. Not sure what changes that don't eat into Explorer but that's my prediction.
@mattm7798 I mean, it's already going to be very different from Timeless if only because the pool of competitively viable cards in Timeless are mostly comprised of cards Banned in Historic. Honestly, Legacy is a bad comparison anyway since it isn't dying because of a lack of supports It's dying because it's prohibitively expensive. I play paper Legacy and the scene here died out from people selling out of their decks to online retailers after cards like TNN got designed for and printed directly into Legacy and creature power creep like Goyf and Delver killing entire archetypes in the format. I guess the real parallel would be Pioneer and Modern with Historic and Timeless. Pioneer is eating up the PT support for non-rotating formats Modern once received with multiple Pioneer events in the future scheduled and only the MH3 release event being Modern for the next few years. I don't see them as eating into each other as most Modern Players I know also play Pioneer since they have most of the cards worth using and most Pioneer players I know are working towards saving up and buying the staples they need got the Modern deck they want to have. If anything, I would think Timeless will be harder to justify getting into since most of your collection will have no cross-over with other formats, while Pioneer and Historic have a lot more crossover in competitively viable cards. If I didn't have the cards all ready from drafting acquiring the banned cards would have been an insane amount of wildcards
I just realized "Timeless" answers the complaint people have when they spend all their rare wildcards on a card that gets banned. "Oh it's banned and you want your wildcards back cuz it's unplayable now? Well you can just play it in Timeless"
No they have literally not used that excuse when they banned Reflections and bank buster. We got wild cards for the first Ban and any subsequent bans you don't.
The funny thing is, this is what Historic was supposed to be. That's how it was sold to me anyways. A place to use all the cards that got banned or cycled out of other formats
Back during one of the no BL historic trials, I was playing a solid Bant field of the dead/control deck, with Uro and Prime Time. I bet something like that could work well
regarding the layoffs: they are cyclical, corporations usually do mass layoffs on specific parts of the year to cut costs, get tax cuts from the government and funnel the money that would go to those workers to the CEO and shareholders instead... yeah, just like how it sounds, it's straight up evil for no reason other than "make more money for the sake of making money".
I think Historic will survive. It will mostly be played by people who want to play more casual decks that won’t survive in timeless. And those who want to play alchemy cards because those probably won’t survive in timeless ether.
I played remand-tribal all day on the first day in ranked Bo1, and it was very fun. Barely saw any alchemy cards, games felt good, and I didnt get completely wrecked by Tainted Pact/Thoracle. Heres hoping it stays fun!!
At 1:46:05 he could’ve maybe kept the bolt in hand to target a thoracle with it ? If the opponent keeps like 2 cards on top and you bolt the thoracle as it’s trigger is on the stack and they still have 1 cards left don’t you just win (if no counterspell)
Simic nexus should actually be bant nexus with Hero of dominaria and swords at least, with maybe 3feri as well. Sneak attack seems like it wants to run 8-mana ghalta, ulamog, and maybe ancient silver dragon and agent of treachery?
I think necropotence will end up restricted eventually, Storm could be good to just like you said. Eventually they might need to add force of negation for timeless though.
55:41 Seth used to talk about constantly how Unholy Heat deals too much damage and when wotc agreed and nerfed it, now he says he hates rebalanced cards...
I'm having lots of fun (despite moderate success) with RG Ponza so far. Really need a few more wild cards for more fetches, tho. Might even end up splashing blue for Oko if I end up with enough good lands.
I'm playing Ponza as well. Still missing some wildcards for fetches, bolts and monkey but I pretty much imported my historic list and added blood moon for now. Blood moon is enough against most decks a lot of the time, especially with Stone rain backup for those pesky basics.
What about a Jund sneak attack deck using dark ritual for ramp and creatures like ghalta and worldspine worm in combination with bloodletter of aclazotz and angrath's marauders or Zopandral and god eternal Rhonas for massive trampling damage.
@@nikmidclayton5933I wish alchemy cards weren’t included as well but I don’t think I’ve encountered one in the 15 or so matches I’ve played. The “banned” cards seem to be what everyone is playing.
@@nikmidclayton5933 How so? Most of them are barely played and the ones that are played aren't really much different than any of the more busted cards.
There will almost certainly be no actual bans in timeless in the near future, and even if there are, it wouldn't be for something as mundane as a worse ancestral recall or Oko. Though, i would be surprised if more than one of Oko, cruise, field, and Nexus remain unrestricted by the end of January.
Yeah I meant unrestricted, not banned, tho there are even cards that are straight up banned in vintage. Why? Because Timeless is like the powerlevel of legacy with the rules of vintage, and I think treasure cruise will just be too good but we'll see. I hope they put force of will or at least force of negation in timeless because I foresee it devolving into combo decks trying to goldfish the fastest before long.@@TheCardq
@@mattm7798 Lurrus was banned in vintage for powerlevel for a short while (as far as I'm aware it has been the only card to ever be banned in vintage for powerlevel), it was unbanned some time after the companion errata, There are another 44 cards currently banned in vintage for various reasons other than power level though. About 25 are banned because they are conspiracies, about 10 are banned for being ante cards, about 7 are banned due to sensitivity concerns, at least two are banned for being dexterity cards (chaos orb and falling star), and Shahrazad is banned for play pattern I guess.
I think historic will still be the arena modern , timeless will be arena vintage, brawl is arenas bastard commander, and standard is standard. The biggest issue I have with magic is 3 fold 1. Hasbro driving it into the ground with (2.) new sets every few weeks and (3) the cramming of IP into sets. Lord of the rings works, D&D works, but fallout? Dr who? Jurassic park, I love all the IP but come on man… it all stops being special when everything is everything all the time. The cool thing about sets were they were on rotation, the cool thing about LOTR won’t be cool when transformers and walking dead are in every set. Just ruining the glimmers of good by seeing something cool work and repaint it so much and so fast until it’s cringey. Like:.. just do the formula that worked for 25 years. Make compelling sets with good mechanics and do it well. Surprises are great, when they don’t become the new normal. Same with the secrets lairs and commander sets. We’re great when you could get to play with the cards before 3 more spoil. lol sheesh. Let us breathe a bit. Feel like I’m drowning and for that reason I only play on arena for free because I don’t see myself spending money to play long term on newer sets if this is business as usual now. Edit : this coming from someone who has played since mirage, have sold my paper collection and got out for years until inninstad. Been playing on MTGO, and paper until khans block (last sets were just after that) I still have about 1200-1500 tix collection on MTGO and about to sell, and about a 10K $ collection on paper mostly older cards (nothing standard legal less than a handful of woe drafts) that I won’t sell and have only spent 20$ total on arena playing daily challenges and weekly’s for about a year. Since oath of gatewatch was the last sets I spent any money outside of draft in paper. I draft atleast once./ twice per set on MTGO up until amonkhet. I’m ready to cash out MTGO and just play cube / fun stuff and do arena full time unless I’m playing EDH or drafting in paper with friends. I don’t see myself playing much of anything but arena moving forward.
The literal effect(x damage to a creature) is not a break. It's that so often it's a red 1 mana kill your creature, which is outside red's color pie. IOW, red should not be able to kill a 6 toughness creature for 1 mana at instant speed. Flame Slash is about as good as it "should" be, and that's sorcery speed and 4 damage.
@@mattm7798 Green usually shouldnt be able to tutor for a creature for one mana but it can with Traverse the Uvenwald when Delerium is on line. Its not a break, its a burn spell that gets supercharged by delerium...much like most delerium cards
@@garmatey3816where has it ever been stated that green shouldn’t be able to do that? Green is great at tutoring creatures, so if any color can do it for 1 mana it’s green. There are many cards that do this in green, either directly, like Worldly Tutor, or indirectly, like Green Sun’s Zenith.
@@poiri I know green tutors for creatures, thats exactly my point…I could say the same thing about unholy heat, red can’t normally do that much damage for one mana but if any color can do it for one mana it’s red. Neither of those colors can do those respective things for one mana except for with these delirium cards
@@kalebcline9770 yes rub it in😉, it's astonishing how little communication we get from wotc, this and what's happening at Hasbro almost makes me stop playing magic
Seth, there were a couple spots where you needed a land and had consider and brainstorm in hand, and chose to cast the brainstorm. It’s usually better there to cast consider on endstep instead of brainstorm, especially if you don’t have a fetch, because you’ll end up seeing the same number of cards without brainstorm locking yourself.
Blood Moon will allways be the good guy to me.
The whole will Timeless kill Historic conversation is silly. Did Pioneer kill Modern, did Modern Kill Legacy or better yet why is Modern more popular on MTGO if its a zero sum "i want to play the most powerful format and nothing else" situation. Ive been playing Mtg since 1995 and have always looked at new formats as just new ways to play the game.
Well, Modern didn't kill Legacy, WotC replacing Legacy support WITH Modern pretty much killed it. Not many are saying Historic will literally cease to exist all together, just it won't be supported and/or played much.
Alchemy is pretty much dead yet it's still supported.
I think WotC will make changes in historic to make it more different than Timeless. Not sure what changes that don't eat into Explorer but that's my prediction.
@mattm7798 I mean, it's already going to be very different from Timeless if only because the pool of competitively viable cards in Timeless are mostly comprised of cards Banned in Historic.
Honestly, Legacy is a bad comparison anyway since it isn't dying because of a lack of supports It's dying because it's prohibitively expensive. I play paper Legacy and the scene here died out from people selling out of their decks to online retailers after cards like TNN got designed for and printed directly into Legacy and creature power creep like Goyf and Delver killing entire archetypes in the format.
I guess the real parallel would be Pioneer and Modern with Historic and Timeless. Pioneer is eating up the PT support for non-rotating formats Modern once received with multiple Pioneer events in the future scheduled and only the MH3 release event being Modern for the next few years. I don't see them as eating into each other as most Modern Players I know also play Pioneer since they have most of the cards worth using and most Pioneer players I know are working towards saving up and buying the staples they need got the Modern deck they want to have. If anything, I would think Timeless will be harder to justify getting into since most of your collection will have no cross-over with other formats, while Pioneer and Historic have a lot more crossover in competitively viable cards. If I didn't have the cards all ready from drafting acquiring the banned cards would have been an insane amount of wildcards
@@mattm7798I wish legacy got more support and was less expensive it’s such a fun format.
I just realized "Timeless" answers the complaint people have when they spend all their rare wildcards on a card that gets banned. "Oh it's banned and you want your wildcards back cuz it's unplayable now? Well you can just play it in Timeless"
I think you're 💯 percent correct
No they have literally not used that excuse when they banned Reflections and bank buster. We got wild cards for the first Ban and any subsequent bans you don't.
The funny thing is, this is what Historic was supposed to be. That's how it was sold to me anyways. A place to use all the cards that got banned or cycled out of other formats
@lordspaz88 it was never promised to not have bannings lol
Except they didn't do that recently for Karn in explorer.
Banned and cards given, even though it was still in historic
29:59 Seth giving a speech about the importance of fetching basic Islands while we see his deck HAS NO basic Islands is peak content.
Bro what...there are basic islands but he couldnt fetch it with the rakdos fetch
Back during one of the no BL historic trials, I was playing a solid Bant field of the dead/control deck, with Uro and Prime Time. I bet something like that could work well
Blood moon is the key to the health of a format, especially with fetches
Made a 28 rhino deck. Had so much fun.
regarding the layoffs: they are cyclical, corporations usually do mass layoffs on specific parts of the year to cut costs, get tax cuts from the government and funnel the money that would go to those workers to the CEO and shareholders instead... yeah, just like how it sounds, it's straight up evil for no reason other than "make more money for the sake of making money".
I’ve been playing izzet Phoenix and it feels pretty good. The fetches + treasure cruise is insane
That Fields deck is beautiful and evil. I played Golos in cmdr before the ban and it was SO strong, even detuned. It was a lot of fun XD
I played mono red and won 4 straight and called it a day.
I think Historic will survive. It will mostly be played by people who want to play more casual decks that won’t survive in timeless. And those who want to play alchemy cards because those probably won’t survive in timeless ether.
I played remand-tribal all day on the first day in ranked Bo1, and it was very fun. Barely saw any alchemy cards, games felt good, and I didnt get completely wrecked by Tainted Pact/Thoracle. Heres hoping it stays fun!!
At 1:46:05 he could’ve maybe kept the bolt in hand to target a thoracle with it ? If the opponent keeps like 2 cards on top and you bolt the thoracle as it’s trigger is on the stack and they still have 1 cards left don’t you just win (if no counterspell)
Thoracle trigger still resolves if you kill it. You have to counter the thoracle or stifle the trigger
You do win, the trigger will go off and because their devotion is now zero you’ll win in two turns when they deck themselves
the real problem with this format is how expensive it is on wildcards... cmon im having to use rare wildcards on common cards, wotc fix this please
Simic nexus should actually be bant nexus with Hero of dominaria and swords at least, with maybe 3feri as well.
Sneak attack seems like it wants to run 8-mana ghalta, ulamog, and maybe ancient silver dragon and agent of treachery?
I think necropotence will end up restricted eventually, Storm could be good to just like you said. Eventually they might need to add force of negation for timeless though.
55:41 Seth used to talk about constantly how Unholy Heat deals too much damage and when wotc agreed and nerfed it, now he says he hates rebalanced cards...
Omg simic flash and temur adventure are back🎉
I'm having lots of fun (despite moderate success) with RG Ponza so far. Really need a few more wild cards for more fetches, tho. Might even end up splashing blue for Oko if I end up with enough good lands.
I'm playing Ponza as well. Still missing some wildcards for fetches, bolts and monkey but I pretty much imported my historic list and added blood moon for now. Blood moon is enough against most decks a lot of the time, especially with Stone rain backup for those pesky basics.
I have a deck I want to see Seth's opinion on... it's Sidisi ouroboros
Gonna build myself a timeless deck. Hopefully done by 2025
What about a Jund sneak attack deck using dark ritual for ramp and creatures like ghalta and worldspine worm in combination with bloodletter of aclazotz and angrath's marauders or Zopandral and god eternal Rhonas for massive trampling damage.
43:53 I wudra bounced the token and killed the 1/2
Yes. Build ponza.
...and hurry up with it too.
Wait, did seth say the elementals are more broken than ancestral recall, time walk and black lotus?
I don't think that the power nine are in timeless
@@AlexanderClamiltonNeither are the elementals.
Seth lives in a place that gets enough snow IIRC... Should PROBABLY invest in a nice beefy back-up power supply ;)
Great format. Play a land, Offer You Can't Refuse your own 0 mana spell. Channel on turn one, win without the opponent playing a single land.
guff triplets sneak attack?
If bloodmoon is legal so should be bowmasters.
Keeps these blue draw decks in check.
I wish they would’ve added the whole Khans block
Same...really feels incomplete without the awesome cards from FR and DTK
Agreed. All I wanted was Soulflayer.....
I really wish you play the fun formats and cool deck in videos. It's just so hard for me to watch you stream
I wish there were timeless events
first! so exited for this format
Meh, the made up alchemy stuff ruins it.
@@nikmidclayton5933😂😂😂😂
@@nikmidclayton5933I wish alchemy cards weren’t included as well but I don’t think I’ve encountered one in the 15 or so matches I’ve played. The “banned” cards seem to be what everyone is playing.
@@nikmidclayton5933 How so? Most of them are barely played and the ones that are played aren't really much different than any of the more busted cards.
@@daximus5988 doesn't matter. It's a fake format if alchemy is involved
Hot Take: Thassa's Oracle is just as much bullshit as everything that Seth loves and argues is totally not busted and dumb.
Only want leonin arbiter and aether vial please! Oh and For gladiator please add power 9!
Ok, any bets on how long treasure cruise and Oko remain legal? :)
There will almost certainly be no actual bans in timeless in the near future, and even if there are, it wouldn't be for something as mundane as a worse ancestral recall or Oko. Though, i would be surprised if more than one of Oko, cruise, field, and Nexus remain unrestricted by the end of January.
Yeah I meant unrestricted, not banned, tho there are even cards that are straight up banned in vintage.
Why? Because Timeless is like the powerlevel of legacy with the rules of vintage, and I think treasure cruise will just be too good but we'll see. I hope they put force of will or at least force of negation in timeless because I foresee it devolving into combo decks trying to goldfish the fastest before long.@@TheCardq
@@mattm7798 Lurrus was banned in vintage for powerlevel for a short while (as far as I'm aware it has been the only card to ever be banned in vintage for powerlevel), it was unbanned some time after the companion errata, There are another 44 cards currently banned in vintage for various reasons other than power level though. About 25 are banned because they are conspiracies, about 10 are banned for being ante cards, about 7 are banned due to sensitivity concerns, at least two are banned for being dexterity cards (chaos orb and falling star), and Shahrazad is banned for play pattern I guess.
These layoffs are not immediate, they're going to be across q1/q2 2024.
I think historic will still be the arena modern , timeless will be arena vintage, brawl is arenas bastard commander, and standard is standard.
The biggest issue I have with magic is 3 fold 1. Hasbro driving it into the ground with (2.) new sets every few weeks and (3) the cramming of IP into sets.
Lord of the rings works, D&D works, but fallout? Dr who? Jurassic park, I love all the IP but come on man… it all stops being special when everything is everything all the time. The cool thing about sets were they were on rotation, the cool thing about LOTR won’t be cool when transformers and walking dead are in every set. Just ruining the glimmers of good by seeing something cool work and repaint it so much and so fast until it’s cringey. Like:.. just do the formula that worked for 25 years. Make compelling sets with good mechanics and do it well. Surprises are great, when they don’t become the new normal. Same with the secrets lairs and commander sets. We’re great when you could get to play with the cards before 3 more spoil. lol sheesh. Let us breathe a bit. Feel like I’m drowning and for that reason I only play on arena for free because I don’t see myself spending money to play long term on newer sets if this is business as usual now.
Edit : this coming from someone who has played since mirage, have sold my paper collection and got out for years until inninstad. Been playing on MTGO, and paper until khans block (last sets were just after that) I still have about 1200-1500 tix collection on MTGO and about to sell, and about a 10K $ collection on paper mostly older cards (nothing standard legal less than a handful of woe drafts) that I won’t sell and have only spent 20$ total on arena playing daily challenges and weekly’s for about a year. Since oath of gatewatch was the last sets I spent any money outside of draft in paper. I draft atleast once./ twice per set on MTGO up until amonkhet.
I’m ready to cash out MTGO and just play cube / fun stuff and do arena full time unless I’m playing EDH or drafting in paper with friends. I don’t see myself playing much of anything but arena moving forward.
im so confused as to how Unholy Heat is a color pie break
The literal effect(x damage to a creature) is not a break. It's that so often it's a red 1 mana kill your creature, which is outside red's color pie. IOW, red should not be able to kill a 6 toughness creature for 1 mana at instant speed.
Flame Slash is about as good as it "should" be, and that's sorcery speed and 4 damage.
@@mattm7798 Green usually shouldnt be able to tutor for a creature for one mana but it can with Traverse the Uvenwald when Delerium is on line. Its not a break, its a burn spell that gets supercharged by delerium...much like most delerium cards
@@garmatey3816where has it ever been stated that green shouldn’t be able to do that? Green is great at tutoring creatures, so if any color can do it for 1 mana it’s green. There are many cards that do this in green, either directly, like Worldly Tutor, or indirectly, like Green Sun’s Zenith.
@@poiri I know green tutors for creatures, thats exactly my point…I could say the same thing about unholy heat, red can’t normally do that much damage for one mana but if any color can do it for one mana it’s red.
Neither of those colors can do those respective things for one mana except for with these delirium cards
@@garmatey3816 so I ask again, since you didn't answer: where has it ever been stated that green doesn't get 1 mana creature tutors?
Definitely need to remake the saltiest deck for timeless
they should have 2 versions of timeless one alchemy and one paper only
Truth is, WoTC needs to make more use of the restricted list. SUCH a better option than simply banning cards.
Does it have alchemy garbage? Wizards can go screw themselves then
Glad some people an play arena, while some of us are experiencing trouble with it and wotc doesn't seem to care
Sorry man . That would suck, this timeless and Khans sealed has been a great
@@kalebcline9770 yes rub it in😉, it's astonishing how little communication we get from wotc, this and what's happening at Hasbro almost makes me stop playing magic
Oko and Uro are not busted. Please stop lying. It was a mistake to ban them.
dont buy magic products! kek