This deck made me smile. I've been a fan of mono black going back to Viscara the Dreadful and when Coffers was new in Odyssey block. Great fun content Seth. Thanks for rhe good time
id arge that the problem with the discovery deck in general isnt that its easy to answer, but its designed that you have to have an answer at all times. 1 card combo style decks just dont make healthy formats ever, and one that can go off as early as turn 3 with no setup is even worse for the format
Also, if the opponent had spun into an Appraiser off the first Carnosaur trigger Seth wouldn't have been able to answer both creatures and probably would have lost anyway.
30:05 I don't think this is an unpopular opinion, it's wild that wotc let's this card runs around that allows people to tutor up whatever answer they need to any situation
Funny to complain about that when there was a land that was +4 mana over a normal land in play. At least in Historic and Explorer, Nykthos is definitely the stronger (and more problematic) card.
It is very dangerous to let the discover 5 resolve because it can hit another discover spell. Especially in historic, there is also 5 mana discover creature, so there are more odds to hit those. That's why that deck is tough for many decks.
If it hits another Discover you can let glasspool resolve and then destroy its target. Even if they get both 7/6s on the field you can just run out Obliterator and force them to sac 7 on the attack
Another reason to kill with the discover trigger on the stack is that eldritch evolution has sac as part of the cost too, so you can’t kill the creature in response to the cast and they can go fetch a big dinosaur and maybe discover into an appraisar at which point you can’t fizzle their combo without double doomblade
I don't know what you'd have to pull from a mono-black Modern Scam shell to fit Gary and Bloodletter in, but getting a second EtB on Gary seems pretty hot.
I actually pulled this off in a commander game with my Scarab God deck. The Elrond player still won cause they were just so far ahead, but it was cool seeing my opponents’ life drop so drastically and my life total go up even more
I’ve been playing Mono-Black Devotion in Explorer for around a year now, and my list is a bit different than this, but Bloodletter is probably the best upgrade to it in a while. It’s great with Gary, and works with Warlock Class/Sheoldred+Peer into the Abyss combos I was already running on the top-end of my curve. Super fun deck, and frankly I think pretty underrated as a Pioneer deck.
such a fun combo, bloodletter + gary. took me to mythic last month. i had a pretty different list tho. i did have arena, obliterator, and meathook, but other cards were changed for hopeless nightmare, tithing blade, liliana veil, cut down, bone shards, bitterblossom, deep cavern bats, beseech, and shelly. also ran a 66/60 deck for flavor.
Been playing a variation of this deck in Historic for awhile now and have been splashing blue for Thassa, Deep Dwelling to blink my Gray Merchants to much success. Similar effect to including bloodletter, though not quite the same. The deck is also built with a lot more mono-black creatures focused on ETB triggers, such as Yarok's Fenlurker and Ravenous Chupacabra.
rn I’ve been playing Mono Black Devo with peer into the abyss (target player draws half their deck and loses half their life) and then combo it with Orcish Bowmasters, Sheoldred, Warlock Class, and Underground Dreams
29:58 Karn is definitely not the problem right there, it was a 9-mana Doom Blade, the problem was Nykthos producing 7 mana to be able to spend 9 mana on turn 4 with basically no downside.
The issue with thr discover deck isn't that it's unbeatable. A turn three one card combo is just unhealthy in pioneer/explorer (and to a lesser extent in historic). Also, the play pattern is pretty miserable. Also, discover dino into discover dude requires two pieces of removal.
The new Deep-Cavern bat is another decent addition to this deck from the new set. I've found that it works well in baiting out removal in the early game to clear the way for bloodletter and if it sticks it's just great hand disruption. Also adds just a little bit of extra life gain which is super relevant in certain matchups.
Another way to synergise with gray merchant is necroduality. When gray merchant etb’s you make a copy of it. Since it copies the mana value it will drain them twice counting gray merchants and it’s copies devotion
The problem is that in recent years artifacts basically have instant/sorcery ETBs, theres artifact edict effects, there is X/5 hate in artifact form. Heck stone brain means there is now artifact combo hate. its just too much.
Please seth, please record your beautiful singing from 30:30 you could get the whole team on an arrangement? WOTC WOTC what are they thinking? no one knows! Christmas 2023 instant hit!!!!!
I don't know if this is the right place to suggest ideas, but I was making a nethroi Hydra deck and I realised that: Tribute to the world tree, Basri's liutenant and any free sacrifice outlet could make for a fun combo. I think that Bartolomew del presidio could be a good one, or an altar of dementia. You could also play around with hardened scales and kami of whispered hopes or the ozolith for a cool abzan counters deck in historic.
I prefer to run a creature-heavy, self-mill variant with fiend artisan to tutor creatures, and call of the death dweller to reanimate archfiend's vessel and souls of the lost for early blowout potential. It's fragile but more fun to me than the typical removal/disruption fest black is known for.
UW Control opponent misplayed pretty badly. They should've thrown away their first Hall of the Storm Giant to kill the Aetherborn. They had several chances to do so without fear of removal because of ward, but wound up dying to the Aetherborn really awkwardly. You got to keep gaining life, which meant Castle Lochthwain was free every turn.
Unsurprised that Wizards made Wizards the best deck in at least one format... ;) Part of me want to find a way to squeeze in a copy of Alhammarret's Archive to double up on the lifegain from Gary and Gifted Aetherborn AND the card draw from Phyrexian Arena and Castle Locthwain... Probably end up being too much win-more though.
Hell yeah, built almost the exact deck except I went for Peer into the Abyss instead of Gary. Been facing only the discover deck in the explorer queue though…
The first game, Seth secretly discovering the joys of being a control deck. Have answers - win. Maybe the sorrows of it. Certainly is a monopoly on fun. And certainly not exploring the glory of the jank brew lifestyle.
Would you play a kedis and tymna burn deck on clash with damage multipliers and life loss multipliers. Tymna draws cards and kedis hits everyone. Sounds like something youd like.
30:24 Getting to cast Wish every turn is pretty broken, but frankly not TOO broken for Legacy and Modern, at four mana. 3-mana Teferi, on the other hand, just completely shutting down all instant speed interaction.... That card simply should not exist in any format.
I'd be very interested in seeing this deck played in Explorer (or on MTGO in Pioneer), instead of in Historic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any of the cards in this list aren't Pioneer legal, so from a gameplay perspective, the only difference is what decks you face.
I hate to break it to you Seth, but that first game against discover combo was part luck and part punt. there was no reason for your opponent to pitch carnosaur and if your opponent hadn't hit the mimic off of the second discover and hit appraiser or evolution, they get to go off through removal.
I'm interested in if you can make it work. Personally I dabbled with that combo yesterday ... a bit. ... I couldn't make it work. Therefore I went with another build of MonoBlack. Lesser creature count (Trespassers replacing Aetherborns) and removing the 3 Bloodletters I've got + 3 Garys. More Hand Disruption. Additional removal with 4 copies of Tithing Blade. Adding 1 or 2 Beseech the Mirror - to get value of the Blades when the devotions isn't needed anymore ... or to stop lifedrain from Phyrexian Arena. And of course the usual planeswalkers. This quite different build is especially good against UW control and Mono Green devotion.
Im just getting into arena and am new to competitive formats, Ive been toying with this deck for a while and a card called bloodghast has been waaay over preforming, its a solid way to keep up aggro and devotion through midrange and control matchups, and it has spicy synergy with that LCI removal spell and the warlock class, am I missing something or should it be a staple in this deck?
Why would you discard the phyrexian arena just to spend the turn castle-ing? Taking the turn off to bluff seems worse than taking the turn-off to play arena and double your chances to find actual removal.
Yeah those things feel good, but have you ever played Gandalf the white/panharmonicon into sundering titan against a land destruction gitrog monster deck while they had Dryad of the Ilysian Grove on the battlefield?
Gray Merchant is one of the few times in History a person named "Gary" has inflicted fear in other men
"If I had a nickel for each time the name Gary struck fear into the hearts of men..."
Unless you've played Fallout 3 and gone into a particular vault, although then again, "Gary" is more annoying than terrifying.
@@thedude5able GARY! You can't hide Gary!
Laughed out loud several times at round 1 😂. "But wait, what happens if we just leave up removal? 🤔 Awww, the fizzle!" omgded
This deck made me smile. I've been a fan of mono black going back to Viscara the Dreadful and when Coffers was new in Odyssey block. Great fun content Seth. Thanks for rhe good time
8:24 When Seth said it's a glass cannon, you gotta believe it. This man plays the heck out of Quintorius deck for a while already
I've played with an against it a ton. It's a really cool deck, but I still think it's pretty beatable.
Petition to call this deck Bloody Gary
Awesome! Love to see some mono black devotion 🖤🖤🖤
Me too!
id arge that the problem with the discovery deck in general isnt that its easy to answer, but its designed that you have to have an answer at all times. 1 card combo style decks just dont make healthy formats ever, and one that can go off as early as turn 3 with no setup is even worse for the format
And not every deck has acces to the need amount of removal.
Also, if the opponent had spun into an Appraiser off the first Carnosaur trigger Seth wouldn't have been able to answer both creatures and probably would have lost anyway.
It's keeping mono green in check
@@christopherbolanos4695 it’s worse then mono green. Saying things like that doesn’t show it being a healthy deck, it shows that it’s equally toxic.
30:05 I don't think this is an unpopular opinion, it's wild that wotc let's this card runs around that allows people to tutor up whatever answer they need to any situation
Funny to complain about that when there was a land that was +4 mana over a normal land in play. At least in Historic and Explorer, Nykthos is definitely the stronger (and more problematic) card.
@@Duall8 easy fix, ban both
Funny how both cards usually end up in the same deck, because the only thing worse than karn is a karn with extra mana
Karn is a great but very mana-hungry toolbox card, I think it's pretty OK, Nykthos seems faaaaaaaaaar more like the problem card here
@@spiritkid9109 Karn is way worse, Nykthos speeds your mana but doesn't save your ass in a hard situation...
It is very dangerous to let the discover 5 resolve because it can hit another discover spell. Especially in historic, there is also 5 mana discover creature, so there are more odds to hit those. That's why that deck is tough for many decks.
If it hits another Discover you can let glasspool resolve and then destroy its target. Even if they get both 7/6s on the field you can just run out Obliterator and force them to sac 7 on the attack
@@wingdinggaster6737Glasspool Mimic doesn't target
The 5 mana discover guy only discovers if you cast it from hand I think
Another reason to kill with the discover trigger on the stack is that eldritch evolution has sac as part of the cost too, so you can’t kill the creature in response to the cast and they can go fetch a big dinosaur and maybe discover into an appraisar at which point you can’t fizzle their combo without double doomblade
@@shapiedneither the 6 mana or the 4 mana discover creature says this
Wait why did you play this in Historic? Every card you played is legal in Explorer.
Gotta flex on them
Because explorer is a trash format
Explorer SEO is nonexistent. Historic is well established. I agree historic should be ignored as a format whenever possible. F*ck LOTR
There's also the arena queue times. Historic has more players than explorer on arena.
At this point I'm mostly waiting for the bans Monday to start playing Explorer/Pioneer/Modern again, don't worry, it will be coming soon :)
I came for the Gary fun but stayed and learned how to beat the discover combo deck that gave me problems last night
Also, Underworld Dreams could also be a sneaky one or two of in this deck for both card burn and devotion as well!
I don't know what you'd have to pull from a mono-black Modern Scam shell to fit Gary and Bloodletter in, but getting a second EtB on Gary seems pretty hot.
I actually pulled this off in a commander game with my Scarab God deck. The Elrond player still won cause they were just so far ahead, but it was cool seeing my opponents’ life drop so drastically and my life total go up even more
I’ve been playing Mono-Black Devotion in Explorer for around a year now, and my list is a bit different than this, but Bloodletter is probably the best upgrade to it in a while. It’s great with Gary, and works with Warlock Class/Sheoldred+Peer into the Abyss combos I was already running on the top-end of my curve. Super fun deck, and frankly I think pretty underrated as a Pioneer deck.
I can't believe I'm watching Seth play prudently. Seth "I'll Keep This One Lander" SaffronOlive, in this 2023rd year of Our Lord.
I mean, that two lander around 25:00 was a pretty big trap
@@TheCardq A two lander is risky. A one lander is a cry for help.
@@rykx0r true, but that nykthos wasn't real. He needed to draw another black souce and multiple cheap permanents for it to do anything.
Loved watching seth just picking apart the discover deck in match 1 lmao
such a fun combo, bloodletter + gary. took me to mythic last month. i had a pretty different list tho. i did have arena, obliterator, and meathook, but other cards were changed for hopeless nightmare, tithing blade, liliana veil, cut down, bone shards, bitterblossom, deep cavern bats, beseech, and shelly. also ran a 66/60 deck for flavor.
I like the flavor choice
I like the choice of the blade. trial of ambition is also good.
Been playing a variation of this deck in Historic for awhile now and have been splashing blue for Thassa, Deep Dwelling to blink my Gray Merchants to much success. Similar effect to including bloodletter, though not quite the same. The deck is also built with a lot more mono-black creatures focused on ETB triggers, such as Yarok's Fenlurker and Ravenous Chupacabra.
That game one against the Discover combo deck had me cracking up! lmao
rn I’ve been playing Mono Black Devo with peer into the abyss (target player draws half their deck and loses half their life) and then combo it with Orcish Bowmasters, Sheoldred, Warlock Class, and Underground Dreams
29:58 Karn is definitely not the problem right there, it was a 9-mana Doom Blade, the problem was Nykthos producing 7 mana to be able to spend 9 mana on turn 4 with basically no downside.
I was so glad you saw that line to win in game 2 against mono green. That was super impressive
I just realized Karn is restricted in Vintage.
I do think it is time for Symmetry Sage to be debuffed.
How is THIS the card he will properly pronounce? I feel like we are being gaslighted
loganadixon1 made a pronunciation guide that got passed around online. I'm sure plenty of people sent it to the Goldfish Crew.
@@AndrewLawton16judging by the Amalia video, I highly doubt it. It’s likely a coincidence.
He can't say Legolas...Legolas...
Saff carries this channel on the low
Love the Karn take. 100% agree.
The issue with thr discover deck isn't that it's unbeatable. A turn three one card combo is just unhealthy in pioneer/explorer (and to a lesser extent in historic). Also, the play pattern is pretty miserable.
Also, discover dino into discover dude requires two pieces of removal.
The new Deep-Cavern bat is another decent addition to this deck from the new set. I've found that it works well in baiting out removal in the early game to clear the way for bloodletter and if it sticks it's just great hand disruption. Also adds just a little bit of extra life gain which is super relevant in certain matchups.
Watched this yesterday and ran into it today playing my spelunking gates, glad I knew to take care of that bloodletter immediately 😂
It's kind of impressive how every single one of Karn TGC's abilities is ridiculous
I enjoyed the responsible absense of greed in that first game.
Bloodletter was the card I was most excited for. I added it to my Devo deck on release day and it's been stupid fun.
This looks so fun! I loved playing Black Devotion in Standard.
Another way to synergise with gray merchant is necroduality. When gray merchant etb’s you make a copy of it. Since it copies the mana value it will drain them twice counting gray merchants and it’s copies devotion
You had me at Gary 😍
thanks to remind me I really need to add this card to my araumi encore commander deck
More Gary's = more salt
All of these cards are legal in pioneer/explorer! I might try it out in those formats
30:04 The poor dog crying in the corner hearing this
Drunken Karn: "One cannot cleanse the wounds of... Gary, I think. Hey, can I get another?"
I play colorless ramp and mono black mastermind and I still agree with you that Karn should be banned in every format.
I like drain effects that have "you gain that much life" riders. Secret tech with Bloodletter that lets you gain double life.
I just pulled a foil of the Alt art and it's sooooo pretty!
The problem is that in recent years artifacts basically have instant/sorcery ETBs, theres artifact edict effects, there is X/5 hate in artifact form. Heck stone brain means there is now artifact combo hate. its just too much.
I would have thought to look at Corrupt as backup Grey Merchant, looking at the mana base.
I know uiur playing it, but I think the actual problem is nykthos, not karn. If they didn't have all that mana, it doesn't do that much.
New cascade combo reminds me of the dual caster neoform
Please seth, please record your beautiful singing from 30:30 you could get the whole team on an arrangement? WOTC WOTC what are they thinking? no one knows! Christmas 2023 instant hit!!!!!
you should kill the appraiser in response to the discover trigger in case theyre playing eldritch evolution
I don't know if this is the right place to suggest ideas, but I was making a nethroi Hydra deck and I realised that: Tribute to the world tree, Basri's liutenant and any free sacrifice outlet could make for a fun combo. I think that Bartolomew del presidio could be a good one, or an altar of dementia. You could also play around with hardened scales and kami of whispered hopes or the ozolith for a cool abzan counters deck in historic.
I prefer to run a creature-heavy, self-mill variant with fiend artisan to tutor creatures, and call of the death dweller to reanimate archfiend's vessel and souls of the lost for early blowout potential. It's fragile but more fun to me than the typical removal/disruption fest black is known for.
Merchant of Aclazotz deck, nice
M1G1: who is this Seth imposter telling us not to get greedy?
"If you just always have it, you win!" -Seth
Been playing basically this for about a month now and it's super fun
UW Control opponent misplayed pretty badly. They should've thrown away their first Hall of the Storm Giant to kill the Aetherborn. They had several chances to do so without fear of removal because of ward, but wound up dying to the Aetherborn really awkwardly. You got to keep gaining life, which meant Castle Lochthwain was free every turn.
Dude this is crazy, I just built a deck just like this literally last night
Mr. One Land One Keep telling me not to be greedy, what timeline is this??? (He's right though)
Love the content Seth, I miss Blood Moon decks
Unsurprised that Wizards made Wizards the best deck in at least one format... ;)
Part of me want to find a way to squeeze in a copy of Alhammarret's Archive to double up on the lifegain from Gary and Gifted Aetherborn AND the card draw from Phyrexian Arena and Castle Locthwain... Probably end up being too much win-more though.
Damn, less than 60 seconds after posting, nice
Hell yeah, built almost the exact deck except I went for Peer into the Abyss instead of Gary. Been facing only the discover deck in the explorer queue though…
Regarding the duress bug, changing the artwork fixed it
Missed a great opportunity with Sheoldred, the apocalypse.
Seth, pronouncing "Aclazotz" flawlessly and "circuitous" incorrectly every single time...
Never change.
The first game, Seth secretly discovering the joys of being a control deck. Have answers - win. Maybe the sorrows of it. Certainly is a monopoly on fun. And certainly not exploring the glory of the jank brew lifestyle.
I love how he introduces himself saaaaafron-Ahhhhh-live
The Geological Appraiser combo seems to be most powerful in Bo1, and playing nothing turns 1-3 so your opponent has to guess what you are playing
Would you play a kedis and tymna burn deck on clash with damage multipliers and life loss multipliers. Tymna draws cards and kedis hits everyone.
Sounds like something youd like.
30:24 Getting to cast Wish every turn is pretty broken, but frankly not TOO broken for Legacy and Modern, at four mana.
3-mana Teferi, on the other hand, just completely shutting down all instant speed interaction.... That card simply should not exist in any format.
I'd be very interested in seeing this deck played in Explorer (or on MTGO in Pioneer), instead of in Historic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any of the cards in this list aren't Pioneer legal, so from a gameplay perspective, the only difference is what decks you face.
the Discover Combo deck gets wrecked by Dranith Magistrate something i didn’t think i would say in a non-commander format
Loveletter to Gary
UW Control having mana trouble, yea I’ll feel bad 😂😂
Seth needs to make a banned card holiday song.
BRO GUYS NEW DECK (17) GOES SO HARD
I really need to start naming my decks, lol
I'm satisfied by this Devotion 😌
lol pretty much card for card my paper pioneer deck, but I run two Sheoldred the apocalypse, & two underworld dreams
Seth: "It's bad for the format because it's a removal check."
Also Seth: "This deck we're playing requires you to have removal in hand or you lose."
Curious as to why the very last opponent never powered up Hall of the Storm Giants to block but instead made 1/1 tokens?
I hate to break it to you Seth, but that first game against discover combo was part luck and part punt. there was no reason for your opponent to pitch carnosaur and if your opponent hadn't hit the mimic off of the second discover and hit appraiser or evolution, they get to go off through removal.
You should put Scoure of the Skyclave in there for a literal actual 1 shot
I'm interested in if you can make it work.
Personally I dabbled with that combo yesterday ... a bit.
... I couldn't make it work.
Therefore I went with another build of MonoBlack. Lesser creature count (Trespassers replacing Aetherborns) and removing the 3 Bloodletters I've got + 3 Garys.
More Hand Disruption. Additional removal with 4 copies of Tithing Blade. Adding 1 or 2 Beseech the Mirror - to get value of the Blades when the devotions isn't needed anymore ... or to stop lifedrain from Phyrexian Arena. And of course the usual planeswalkers.
This quite different build is especially good against UW control and Mono Green devotion.
Im just getting into arena and am new to competitive formats, Ive been toying with this deck for a while and a card called bloodghast has been waaay over preforming, its a solid way to keep up aggro and devotion through midrange and control matchups, and it has spicy synergy with that LCI removal spell and the warlock class, am I missing something or should it be a staple in this deck?
Why would you discard the phyrexian arena just to spend the turn castle-ing?
Taking the turn off to bluff seems worse than taking the turn-off to play arena and double your chances to find actual removal.
Yeah those things feel good, but have you ever played Gandalf the white/panharmonicon into sundering titan against a land destruction gitrog monster deck while they had Dryad of the Ilysian Grove on the battlefield?
Is your profile pic Rick Astley as a terrorist?
It's the HOMIE Gary! Best card ever
I think they got rid of the DCI - Drunk Card Index. So, there is no way to know.
Thanks... this, gates, and geist scam are all I play now in historic.
Karn can only exist in Commander, where sideboard doesn't exist and he straitht up sucks
Drunk card creation count: yes
Why didn't the control player fire up the Hall to eat your creatures??
this should have Bolas Citadel in the deck
I agree with the idea Karn should get banned
Flowering of the White Tree is not legal in Pioneer! All this time I thought you were playing Explorer. Such betrayal.
Ha, the deck is legal in both formats, don't have to change anything!
Thank you for not running 4 copies of sheoldred
Would Karn be balanced if it was "search your deck" instead of "from your sideboard"?
It would at least allow for more deckbuilding costs than filling your Sideboard with 7-8 great artifacts
100% correct that Karn should not exist, I've been saying ban him in every format since he was printed
Isn't this deck perfectly playable as it is in Explorer/Pioneer?