The Unintended Consequences Of Selling 60 Fake Magic: The Gathering Cards For $1,000
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2022
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Magic The Gathering's 30th Anniversary Edition Is Not For You: • Magic The Gathering's ...
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I lost all interest in Magic the Gathering due to cost, but now learning that I could just use my printer to make proxy cards, this makes the game far more accessible and slightly desirable.
I spend 1000 on a new pc! Hope this cheers you up.
hi, here to say an unrelated thing but interestings to know for the topic, both of my LGS are not going to bring the pioner precons, and did not bring the last 2 sets, why margings, the owner of one told me about it as i opened the last boster they had. hasbro and WOTC are not only skining players with more product at more price, they are doing it also to the stores.
Lost my hair when I saw that price tag; this sponsorship coming in clutch
kids dont say lol, im 34 and it was cringeworthy to hear someone say lol when i was a teenager. time flies man.
It’s not “60 fake magic cards for 1000$”, it’s “60 randomized fake magic cards for 1000$”
True and so many thousands of $ will be needed for a set at least you'll be spared the rare island, they did take that out right?
Even if I was guaranteed to get the whole power 9, I still wouldn't shell out $1k on fake cards.
I have a hard time as it is convincing my wife to spend hundreds of bucks on a single one xD
yep, and people have done the math. In order to get a full set of power 9, you are more likely going to be spending upwards of 20k.
Some random tests got up to 43k to get P9. Some people were luck to get p9 under 20k (but still upwards of 10k)
And those going foro dual lands, yeah, you ae still looking at p9 costs. Besides you ae already going to have to buy 3 sets ($3000) HOPING to get the 9 or 10 cards. Don't forget it is 4 booster packs, that means 4 rares.
The best part is many of the bootleg proxy sets include all the power 9 and dual lands since they're so desirable. These proxies Wizards has made are some of the easiest proxies to buy already.
or you can buy between 2-4 revised dual lands legal playable for 1k just saying
Remember back in the day when a product like this would be immediately reported on Ebay as a scam?
Howso? It’s an official product, just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it’s a “scam”.
It’s a horrible product, but not fraud.
@@Bored_Barbarian he’s talking about “60 fake cards for $1000.”
@@Bored_Barbarian it’s 4 booster packs full of proxy cards for $1000. Just because WotC made it don’t mean it isn’t a scam. Sure, they’re “official proxies”, but that doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t real Magic cards that cost 1000 f***ing U.S. dollars. I don’t see what’s confusing.
@@Bored_Barbarian Defending WotC here is just... wrong. You can't call that a product even if you wanted to. It's just disgraceful to even attempt something like this. Unfortunately some "speculators" will actually buy this garbage and it really saddens me.
@@Bored_Barbarian It definitely is anti consumer as the deal is very skewed to be only good for the selling side (especiall it being official product). “Interesting legal situation” is perhaps better to call it, I’d say.
Anyway, my wallet’s vote is clear on Hasbro now. ;)
I've never been told to fuck off by a marketing team before but this is kind how I'd imagine how Hasbro would do it.
I've been told to f off by their legal team. (For simply asking a legality question about copyrights they own.) So yeah, that's about right.
Story time: When I was a young child, I was distraught by the death of Optimus Prime. I wrote as heartfelt a letter as a rugrat could about wanting to see him again and that they should bring him back. Some time later I received a response- very politely worded and as memory recalls no more than a couple of sentences. In the message I was thanked for my patronage and flatly rebuked for trying to tell them what to do with their IP.
Nevermind at that time Toei was at work animating his resurrection. More than thirty years have passed and that still sticks with me.
@@poisonerknight Heh, I think that's kind of charming. A personal response, as a kid I'd cherish it even if they mocked me haha
This is what happens when the pioneers of great things retire or get bought out and replaced by folks who went to these elite business schools to worry more about the bottom line and have no connection to the community. As for myself, I am a theme and dual deck collector, so I dont really worry, I have very few cards or decks outside of that. And very few decks made after planes walkers came out. I think the zero turn deck is the only deck i have outside of something prebuilt by woc.
I've been told to fuck off by Dice during the reveal of Battlefield 5.
MTG came out when I was in middle school, and affording booster packs at that age felt like $1000 to me then, so these 30th Anniversary Edition cards do a great job of making me feel just like a kid again.
Ya I remember saving all my money, and think wow I have 1000$ worth of cards here. Big deal for a high schooler back then. Then my mom sent them all away to my 6 year old cousin when I was traveling with school. I secretly think she saved me, I quit then.
@@nonamemannameless1600 Your mom is actually a piece of sht. I hope she apologized or at least acknowledged being a disgusting person and a bad parent.
This Comment Lol ahhaa
just wanna put this out there, go to your cousin, beat him up till he gives you the cards, sell them and buy a house@@nonamemannameless1600
“You can shear a sheep many times, but skin them only once.”
WotC has been skinning us for the last couple years. Ever more product, with ever higher prices. It has been bad practice, and it continues to be so; the $1000 set of proxies is just the latest in a long series of events that shows how little WotC cares about their customers.
Not related but funny coincidence name: What WotC does is based on the Skinner Box.
I like that metaphor
It's not just MtG. Lots of hobby companies are doing this Games Workshop is doing the same crap.
just boycott them
I've gotten to the point where I simply play draft at my LGS. I buy 3 draft packs a week, I'm buying less product than ever. I used to buy boxes stash them away, hold private drafts. Buy into all kinds of hype, and now I'm simply hyped out.
There are many things a person can buy for 1000$. One of them is a printer.
A very nice printer was already on my list of things I really want.
And you can still have 90% of that money left
Exactly. And with that remaining 90% you can get two ink cartridges!
I literally just have them printed through my local ups store
I recommend one of the new tank printers...ink is so cheap
"We knew for the 30th anniversary we had to go big, so we gave it the biggest price we've have ever given a product."
After discussing the 30th anniversary $1000 packs with friends, I ordered my first ever proxies on Etsy. They look and feel like magic cards, and the price can't be beat.
The ones off wish actually aren't too bad either
Back in Innistrad block we just fired them off the printer and stuffed them in sleeves with lands behind them. I gotta imagine people with the talent and passion can make some truly remarkable pieces of artwork
Link?
My entire cEDH collection is proxied. I cant afford most of those cards if they were real. The average deck would be like 4 grand.
I'm going to get one of these, a single, crappy, no-value 30th PBS card in the retro frame. Then I'm going to get some Chinese counterfeits of 30th PBS retro frame cards and study them side-by-side. I am really, really hoping the Chinese get them 100%, I want to see this 30th PBS set BURN.
Please PELASE Please LISTEN to me! Scammers are posting replies as me saying you have won a prize and asking for you to send money to claim said prize. This is a scam! I am battling bots that keep recreating accounts and mass messaging people. It is a scam! Do not send money! I am not giving away playstations! Never send money to claim a prize, it is a scam!
Don’t worry Prof, I’m sure your viewers are used to ignoring that stuff given how frequently Wizards themselves seem to run scams these days.
Should we message you as well as report, or just report?
Sadly, it sounds like a lot of people have fallen for it. I have made so many social media posts about this, but I am working on a video of further warning and begging RUclips to stop this.
I've seen this on a large number of youtube channels. Wish you luck in a good fight against it.
@@fransiscofranco641 people fall for this a lot. Don't doubt human ignorance and greed
I have played Magic for 30 years. And I’m priced out of the celebration. There’s really nothing more for me to say.
All I can ask is that you say it louder
Well said
Same
Same- 25 years ago today we were enjoying Tempest- which was affordable and incredible
That is such a poignant statement.
at $5 a pack i think almost everyone would go and buy at least one pack, many stores would run drafts... could have been a massive celebration and a chance for huge parts of the player base to experience something they might not even been alive for.
Exactly. $5 for a pack of (fake), promotional, anniversary cards would be a neat gift.
If 1 person buy 4 of 5$ packs. 50 people do the same to get 1000$.
Even at $25 a pack it could be defensible.
Wow you just made me realise how awesome it would be if WOTC sold these packs as a cheap paper draftable Vintage Cube.
I think even at $75 a pack it would be worth it to potentially pull a black lotus, even if it’s a proxy
Speculators and grifters made singles skyrocket during the pandemic. Wizards saw that and thought, “hey, we can do that too!”
the speculators went just crazy furing the pandemics. they even tried branching into less mainstream card games but, yeah no one wants overpriced singles in these games lol
The “ this product is not for you“ Tag line on a product that was meant to celebrate 30 years a Magic is such a kick in the balls
I heard they're actually changing the subtitle of the game from "The Gathering" to "This Product isn't for You".
@@TheBizzerker The name of the next set: Not for You. Set abreviation NfY.
It's not the product that isn't for you. It's the company. They really need to update their slogan.
The thing is that I don't even understand for whom this product is in general.
Even for someone who grew up with Magic, has a good disposable income and despite no longer playing much still loves collecting the old pieces of history, why should one waste 1k $ for some proxies that do not even look like the originals while with the same money it is possible to buy real iconic rare cards from Legends, Arabian Night, Aniquities or Unlimited.
In fact, with the money WotC is asking for buying 12 packages (3 "boxes") to have the chance to crack a proxy P9, it would even be possible to buy a REAL played P9 from Unlimited!
This product is garbage not only for the regular players, but also for nostalgic collectors who love Magic.
Honestly apart from those few whales aiming to flip whatever exclusive sealed products for profit (I wonder who'd buy it from them though), I cannot think of anyone who would touch these insultingly overpriced branded fakes.
A kick in the deck… if you will
This is not a celebration of 30 years of magic. It's a celebration of 30 years of money.
30 years of milking you more like haha.
Facts
Money: the Gathering?
@@sebastiannowak1981 even better - Money: the Harvesting
Not really. It's a celebration of making money now.
Of course it's a company that tries to make money. But it's getting worse. More and more content aimed at speculators.
7:30 "To celebrate 30 years of Magic: The Gathering, we're going to leave the game's players completely out in the cold..."
Idea for a video:
• Play some commander games where every player uses full proxy decks;
• The decks must be made to have the highest possible value if they were made with original cards;
• The proxies must be passable as original cards;
• Make a tutorial on how to get those proxies with links to people who make and sell them;
• Make sure to highlight the difference in price of the decks if they were original cards.
My play group has been having proxy commander decks printed for $75 apiece (75 cents per card), they look and feel almost identical to real cards. We have a house rule that decks can't exceed a $500 budget for what the real cards would cost to prevent absurdly powerful cards from being snuck in (I just built a Light-Paws deck and had to cut Serra's Sanctum for example; the value of the deck on CardKingdom is around $400).
We are planning to split costs on a draft booster box to do our own little home Sealed tournaments now and then, but mostly we've decided to just proxy.
You sir, are an evil genius!!😂
Pokémon just celebrated there 25th anniversary with a new anniversary set. The card’s are real, tournament legal and cost the same as any other set. The card’s spanned many different eras from some iconic meta game cards to the very collectible. They had cards for every type of Pokémon fan. It was executed perfectly for an anniversary set in my opinion. Something any other TCG could learn from.
100% I even bought this product and I don't even play the TCG or buy any other pokemon cards :P
I bought a box of the 25th for each of my kids. And HOLY CRAP that money was well spent and less than a 3rd of this product. My kids went nuts over opening charizard and blastoise and all the old cards. They loved it and it didnt cost me a kidney
Executed perfectly if you can ignore availability issues.
But yes, MSRP and the product itself were really a really good celebration of 25 years of Pokémon.
Yeah, and don´t forget that some of them were even pretty playable, which i consider another bonus (it shows that this product is not only for collectors, but also for competitive players). Like the Kyogre or Flying Pika V+VMax that won the worlds.
The Pokémon Card game is also WotC
I bought 50 fake Legend of Zelda MTG Proxies for $50 yesterday...
Do you happen to have a link to them? Sounds like they could be pretty good
The give their children an amazing Christmas comment gave me a feeling like my Insides where withering away. Be thankful for what you have. And I wish that family all the good fortune in the world.
If I told myself that the biggest problem in counterfeit magic cards came from wizards themselves back during gatecrash, I'd have a stroke
I've already read some people in reddit saying that they were previously against proxies but the 30th anniversary edition was the last nail in the coffin of that line of thinking, and many people agreed
also, when he said "want to play Magic the gathering casually with friend but can't afford the cards that WOTC refuses to reprint? No problem ..." my mind completed that phrase with "Printer go Brrr" 😂
ruclips.net/video/O1hCLBTD5RM/видео.html
Well, at least WotC is making sure I support the local "mom and pop" print shop near my place xD
Tabletop simulator has a mod the steals the entire game and let's you import decks from mtg deck websites and let's you import custom ones and let's you play up to 8 players at once. Good looks G.
You should have seen the great proxy war on the reddit threads about 6 months ago. A mod I wont name started banning anybody who ever said the word proxy, ironically the same week wizards announced a secret lair where then artist sells his own proxy arts. The mod was stating any proxy even one that's the legal card but painted over is illegal and counts as counterfeiting.This same mod then entered free magic and got massacred by jokes and arguments. Circlejerk. The 2 mtg main channels and free magic all channels who dont like eachother, banded together against this mod and got him removed as a mod lol
Yup. Why not simply print out proxies? They play just as well.
As videogame pirates have said and is just as true for proxies, "if you dont want players to pirate your product, provide a better experience than pirates"
I've also heard that pirating doesn't hurt the developers that much, those who turn to it probably were not going to buy it otherwise. And since demos have gone the way of the dodo, some people will pirate and then actually buy the game later if they enjoyed it.
@@Coren024 The few studies on the subject that weren't suppressed have shown that the number of people who would have bought a game, but pirated it instead is much smaller than the number of people who bought a game after pirating it, who wouldn't have taken a chance on the game if they couldn't pirate it. It leads to free word of mouth advertising for your game.
In fact the only instances where piracy has been shown to hurt actual sales are when the official release is horribly gimped by anti-consumer DRM like Denuvo or SecuROM, where pirating the game gives you a functional copy that doesn't have massive performance issues or in some cases doesn't literally destroy your hardware or become unplayable if you switch to a different distro or require an internet connection for a singleplayer offline game.
@@MistaHoward I don’t think piracy is always or even usually a bad thing, but i am very sceptical of the ,,number of people who pirated a game but wouldn’t have bought it anyway‘‘. Firstly there is usually no way to know how many people pirated the game. Secondly even if you knew all the people who pirated the game how would you find out if they would have bought it anyway? You could ask them of course but there is no way to tell, if they just retroactively justify their behavior to you or themselves or are actually telling the truth. If you think one of the studies you mentioned actually managed to cleverly solve those issues, then i would be interested in how they did it and it would be nice if you could name the study.
That was actually said by Valve when interviewed about the design policy of Steam.
Yeah, and charge 1k for that.
I can’t believe Wizards had the balls to sell 60 cards for a thousand dollars but they didn’t have the balls to break the reserved list and at least make them real cards
I mean one could in theory make them money the other would without a doubt cost them a shit ton. Id say theyd probably have to sell any rl breaking product at at least double this price to break even and thats assuming no injuction stops it
Boss, I love that you never quit with the videos, instead of getting downtrodden by the critical responses. It's so important to have critics in the community, and being a critic that can rationalise criticism is a testament to your caliber. Love that we still have you.
"We don't really need Wizards of the Coast to play Magic the Gathering"
EXTREMELY SPICY AND DELICIOUS TAKES THIS EPISODE. thank you, Prof. Always looking out for the players first.
14:51
Transformers TCG is proving this right now. The players are making their own cards.
Prof reminding us that the people ultimately have the power.
"We don't need WOTC to play Magic" damn Prof spitting fire
Hes right. We do have 30 years of cards. Even if they stop printing, there are enough decks to build, enough formats to invent and enough cardboard to print proxies to play for the next 10 years at least
I don't know if I agree 100%. The actual regular product is mostly good (draft boosters, precons) and imho the good work done by R&D, playtesters, and creative should still be recognized.
That's been true since the 90s, and it's only gotten _more_ true over time
@@gaebril131 That's not the point. If Wizards and Hasbro evaporated tomorrow, we'd still have the cards we already have, the rules we already have, the game we already have. We don't _need_ new ones to play the game, and by now there are many thousands. It's not that the new stuff is worthless, it's that it's strictly not necessary for us to play Magic
Imagine living in a world where WotC just stopped printing cards in 1999. Instead of Sixth Edition rules changes the game just ends. No Invasion/Onslaught, no modern color pie, no modern frames.
It would have been "enough", sure, but I wouldn't prefer to live in that world.
I love the venom dripping out of his mouth every time he says "sixty fake Magic cards for one thousand dollars."
It upsets me going into my LGS now and seeing teenagers getting into Magic for the first time and thinking about how they are going to have every droplet of profit squeezed out of them before they realise what they've gotten into
The 30 year celebration has forever changed how I view WotC. But at the same time, an unexpected benefit: I've become a lot more proud of being a magic player. Seeing all the players coming together in order to roast the hell out of Wizards has unexpectedly made me feel a lot more connected with my fellow player.
In my LGS I've started/participated in discussions with random folks in there who are also upset about Magic 30. A few of the conversations even turned into us playing games together. And none of that would have happened if not for Magic 30! So hurray, thank you Wizards, for bringing us together through extremely unsavory means. Together, we fight the idiots who seek to ruin the game we love!
Hear, hear
I’m pretty psyched about (transparent) proxy empowerment myself 🤘😤
@@corpsefoot758 oh jeez it's not that deep. how up your ass are you? everything is a battle, everything is a struggle. so histrionic.
Tbh. From the first day on I just tried to ignore the product because I thought "Nobody would be such an idiot buying this".
And that should be the case. Ignore this product. Wizards should not earn a single dollar on this sh*t.
@@isocity-info unfortunately there are people like Rudy though so they will make some money. 😢
they are trying for damage control releasing stuff like Jungi ito secret lair cards. It was the first post on facebook in a while that wasn't flooded with roasting. It won't sway me though. I don't care what their collaboration is
Their actions got me looking into getting high quality proxies seriously, which I never have in the past. Thanks for the great video Professor!
Do you mean proxies or do you mean counterfeits? Proxies to me are alternate art or would not be confused for real cards. Counterfeits are cards that look the same from the front (and sometimes the back) holo stamp and all. I think a discussion on "proxies" vs "counterfeits" is important in the community. Counterfeit cards can get worked into local game store collections and really cause damage. I'm all for proxying... but if it's not clear from a simple glance it's a proxy... that's not good for anyone.
@@JonReid01 High quality proxies that are virtually identical on the front that define what card it is, but the backs have an alternate non-official image on them. The link that @josh shared above, will cancel the order if the "Official MTG logo" is requested on the backside.
@@JonReid01 proxies can have alternative back arts which can also mean just different shades of colors.
I also spent yesterday 80€ to get high quality Proxies of cards which I would like to play with. My friends will start the same. And we never bought Proxies before!
WotC is not the same WotC that created magic they are just a corporate greed monster don't give them money proxy/2ndary market only.
One thing I like about Yu-Gi-Oh is that Konami doesn't care about how old a card is, if it's seeing a ton of play they'll release it to keep the street value down. Then release an alternate art version and those are the ones that are expensive.
Feather duster is still weirdly pricey but the nice thing is the structure deck is cheaper than the single card
I hate that about yugioh. Its a card game that you will never get back anything close to what you put into it when you decide to inevitably decide to quit because the game is broken AF.
@@sirspookybones1118 Feather duster is 3-5 euros, how is that pricey?
@@robbnoble1509 most insane malunderstanding of how likely you are to make a return on your cards just dropped
Yeah but gameplay of Yu-Gi-Oh sucks I'm comparison to MTG
I played magic for 4 years straight in high school and absolutely loved it. After high school I moved to a new town and lost my playgroup and was out of the game for nearly 8 years. 6 months ago I decided to get back into the game and what I see is not the same game. forget the 30 anniversary I was even priced out of double master's. the sheer cost and oversaturation of magic has made me regret even attempting to get back into the game.
My favourite thing about this is that a Swedish game store made their own version of the 30th anniversary edition in response with REAL cards for about 220$ per pack in response.
Do they ship???
I heard about that and was very happy. Still something for whales, but at least it holds value.
And they guarantee high value cards randomly included?
@@guille787 top card was a time walk if I remember correctly.
@@guille787 That store did a calculation - combined sale price of the packs and combined second market value of the cards (including condition of the cards) was a pretty close match, so the pricing was absolutely fair.
I love it prof. This is predatory behavior and as a collective I can appreciate you spearheading the charge against this. This game more and more feels like it's not for the players.
Remember when they started to say "This product isn't for you."? Seems more often than not that I feel that way.
I also agree with Prof they want to cash in on the secondary market pricing. I hope his call for flesh and blood is accurate. I have not tried it yet but (much like anything in life) MTG needs healthy competition to continue to thrive. I love this game I have played it since 1995, games like this can be used as a force of good, they can actually be used to make this world a better place. Unfortunately, I feel Hasbro puts more emphasis on profit than the ability to do good. Just imagine if they sold these packs with 100% of the profit going toward a good cause like St. Jude for example?
This game has been owned by alpha investments, vintage magic, and mtg finance for ages. No one even plays regular formats anymore people only play commander.
Lol, A T?
This game hasnt been for players since they made the reserve list.
As a long time MTG player who has enjoyed your videos, and as a diabetic who just struggled to buy insulin, thank you for this.
I love how you're calling them 'fake' magic cards, because that's actually what they are.
"60 Fake Magic cards for $1000"
I love that motto
It’s funny cuz it’s true!
he forgot an important detail: **random**
anyway, it's an awesome summary
Wizards sells you 60 fake Magic cards for $1000. Other sites sell you 1000 fake Magic cards for $60. Easy choice.
@@MrZerodaim I wouldn't even spend a dollar on fake cards. I can make them myself, if I were so inclined. But I don't. Fake cards are worthless.
Leaves out the fact that its 60 RANDOM fake magic cards
Good 30th anniversary: pick one card from every set ever released to compile a set. And for Magic’s 30th anniversary, make it 30$.
I'd like to see that, especially if it was meant to be draftable...
Look at masters 25 lol
Yeah they did that 5 years ago and it was actually pretty damn nice
They're actually doing that right now, except it's a Secret Lair and it's $150. I wish I was joking.
@@Flickstro and its not 1 per set, but 1 per year
I remember back in 2000 I think it was that WoTC had made some sort of software database of cards. It evidently used a MS Access database on the back end. One of my coworkers managed to crack the password for the database and this was able to sort it so we could determine what image file was associated to what card. The result was we could look up any card in existence at the time and be able to immediately pull up the image file from the program so that we could then print ot out to use as proxy cards. Was great fun being able to use the Black Lotus and other such cards. These days it probably is quite easy to pull up images of any card and proxy them out but back then it was not so simple, so this was a nice little workaround.
Many Magic the Gathering Players ask the question: what does the "gathering" really mean if it's not for the players?
A coworker overhead me discussing MtG with a friend, mentioned he used to play, and played a few games with us. After the 30th anniversary edition, his sudden interest died. When asked, he said he wasn't sure he wanted to get back into magic if "this is what it's about". I have to wonder how big an impact this represents.
Invite him to a proxy-friendly game :)
I played Magic from Legends / Revised to Fifth Edition ('94 - '97) at a competitive level and dabbled with it during Urza's sets. If they would have released these 30th Anniversary packs for anything less than $10 a pop, I would have bought them. I haven't bought a Magic product in over 20 years, but hey, this might have been the nostalgic kick to get me playing again. I mean, I still keep up with the product loosely and I have places to play, so it's possible. However, upon hearing the price tag... yeah, it just kills any desire to even follow the product. It's an insult. It's an insult to me, as a player who helped get Magic going in those early years, and it's an insult to anyone playing today who still puts up with this crap.
Now excuse me while I go take a look at my playset of Su-Chi and remember when Manaburn was still a thing.
I have never done this for anything on RUclips before, but I just subscribed and joined as a student because of how heartfelt and serious this message is.
Same here!!!
@@TolarianCommunityCollege man, you are one of the most thoughtful people I know and it literally brings a tear to my eye. I love that you started your keeps commercial with body positivity, and just your whole attitude, and your thoughtfulness. You should be an inspiration to everybody.
How the heck do you watch RUclips? Just randomly searching for stuff every single time? You don't have channels that you know you enjoy on a frequent basis? Genuinely curious.
@@MerlinTheCommenter no, lol. I usually don't watch RUclips. Mostly use it to listen to music or watch project farm to see "which weed wacker line is best"
Prof, this is my favorite video you’ve put out in a long time. The beginning where you laid out out your opinion on why you want to talk about this product in general really warmed my heart and made me reaffirm what I’ve always thought of you- you truly care about the rest of us who all love this game too. Thank you for being the wonderful person you are, and for always having the pulse of the MTG player fan base. We love you dude.
This and secret lair both give you the signs that proxies are OK. This 30th product saying proxies are OK, because we're doing it as well and you may play with them if you and your friends are OK with proxies. And secret lair adding to the mix if you dig another art style more than the original art that we printed, go ahead and grab that nice proxy art you've been eyeing on the Web.
my friends are playing legacy, which contains those duals (and some other cards) that are insanely expensive. So I was always hesitant to try it out. But now I might consider doing the proxy thing for those expensive cards and play some games with them with my own deck.
This might be the turning point for MTG & WotC. If the Professor is telling the Smart Marks of the Magic world to just proxy everything, the amount of money people will save will open their eyes to the 'more financially sound path to play with friends'.
Even if 30th anniversary sells out, the damage to the brand is irreversible. If I was still playing, I would never give another penny to WotC. You can do a lot of things that generate huge short term profit, but long term completely murders your revenue stream. If companies could pull stunts like 30th anniversary left and right and have no long term consequences they would do it way, way more, but they can't. Why? Because you are having people leave your game en masse every time you pull a stunt like 30th anniversary. Speculators in MTG are only propped up by people being interested in the game and buying product. If no one has interest, the bubble bursts and their 100K lotuses will tank, their dual lands tank, everything tanks.
About 2 weeks after when i first heard about this product, I can to a realization. I play magic only on a casual level, mostly commander. there is zero reason i cant proxy my decks. I can spend 25$ and proxy any deck i want to play using high quality cards. so I am planing on selling off most of my cards, using most of it to take care of bills, and then a bit of the left overs to make some proxy decks.
Yeah im in the same boat so ive just started buying bulk and then slapping what i want on it that way it still feels like the cards but im not spending hundreds for a deck instead like 30 bucks if you go to a high quality print shop
I had the same realization and response. This product is disgusting.
Same. Sold my one dual and my extra fetches. I only like playing mardu mainly so cleared out my other good colors. I’ll keep my one mid level commander deck with arts I like but otherwise I’ll just follow online.
I'll be honest with you - if you never intend to play MTG tournaments AND you buy specific cards online - yes. Just sell your collection and use proxies instead.
The only argument I can make for using tournament legal cards for casual play, is in the case your primary source of the cards are boosters and irl trading. If you are not doing either of these - there is no reason to waste your money buying real cards
I literally had the same realization. I don’t know if I’ll sell of the cards I have, but I’m gonna be buying a lot more proxies and a lot less set boosters going forward
Prof, I'm just one guy, but you gave risen in my eyes. During my 29yrs of game play, my play style has changed many times. I feel I have grown in many ways and as a casual commander player, all I care about is we all have fun. So I want to say thank you for obviously caring about your fellow players
Can we talk about the fact, 3 months later, WotC and Hasbro (dont judge too hard for the spelling, its been 16 hours of work and study 😅) have only sunk themselves deeper with the OGL 1.1/2.0 leak and backpedaling. Some of our favorite TTRPG and TCG's are in for an interesting year, I think
On 40th anniversary: one pack with 5 proxies of alpha for $10,000
Not even proper proxies. Proxy TOKENS.
>.
Not even 40th. 31st anniversary
@@adamchristopher6917 even better: one side is the regular card with silver border, the other side is identical, but foil and with gold border
and maybe the first side has an alternative art, so you have to __choose__ which side to show and see
*randomized
I'm not even angry over what's going on now, because I started Magic AFTER Alpha (considerably after, really). Those cards mean nothing to me, and are already priced way out of my range of affordability, so I just ignore them. I'm pretty much doing the same to this anniversary edition. It means NOTHING to me! I still play the game, because I refuse to acknowledge the anniversary, and because I don't really spend money on the game at all. I play with what I have.
You're a good, kind, and empathetic person, Prof, and I really appreciate that.
Prof should be the president 2024
I had to give up magic after college to pay off debt and save for a family and a house. Literally got out of debt have my first kid on the way in a house I own and was going to get back into it with my best friends and I feel exhausted looking at what's happened over the last two years.
Wizards of The Coast sounds like they're creating the card game dystopia that'll give rise to the real life Inscryption.
You're a true man of the people, Prof. I'm disenchanted with Wizards. I'm not sure if or when that feeling will overtake my enthusiasm for Magic. It's a sad thought, though, for sure.
I love that this video has more likes than Magics 30th anniversary video
Significanty more. This videos upvote to downvote ration is pretty much the inverse on what Wizard's is. Pretty funny. More sad.
hahahhaha so true.
For me, it not only makes me not want to buy it, but it makes me look at any future promotional products with a much more critical eye. I highly suspect that I'll be less likely to buy other products of theirs because mentally I've gone from "this is a game I love and gladly support" to "this is a company that wants to treat me like a wallet, and their job is to empty it". When I first heard about it, I was REALLY excited and would have gladly purchased a box had it been normal price. It's really tainted the water for me though.
Your opinion about it being demoralizing and having some massive lash back is really solid. Your videos are too notch
Crazy to hear Prof talk about feeling like he's considered 'negative'. In a tough period in my depression, his attitude in videos helped spark the motivation to fake it til I make it with some positivity of my own. Skip forward a few years, I'm running the magic club at the school where I work, and I'm a freakin' ray of sunshine 🌞
I don't know you but I am very happy for you, that you made it. Depression is a hellhole.
Same, I don't even play Magic but I stick around cause I enjoy his personality and seeing him talk passionately about this hobby in an informative and entertaining manner. Definitely a treasure.
The 30th anniversary should have been a Masters set called Masters 30 filled with reprints of beloved and wanted cards. It should have been priced the same as standard packs. It should have been a thank you to players, fans, and game stores for not only 30 years, but the huge profit gains over the past few years. Instead they dropped their pants and crapped on everyone.
More accurately, Wizards shit in their own pants and expect players to clean up the mess.
@@GambitsEnd I feel it’s more hasbro then Wotc. Wotc is the only thing they’re getting money from and if they don’t keep digging into it they would go bankrupt in months.
@@wthao You have a point.
@@wthao na WoTC is just as much the problem... They're going along with this garbage...
@@wthao hence why WoTC wants to get out from under Hasbro
Thank you for a great video and all you do.
Also, I couldn’t help but notice your two displayed sealed boxes. I started playing with those sets and it feels good to know someone else was affected by them as well.
Hell I'm just getting back into MtG this year (stop early 2015), to see what it has become. I'm glad to be back and to find a local game store (missed the game so much), but it's really heart breaking to see the separation of the player groups. And the cash milking of this amazing game.
I had never purchased proxies until the 30th-anniversary product was announced. The next day I went to Esty and found some beautiful duels which I purchased for commander games (I also bought a set of power for my cube)
The observation that the effective end of organized play has effectively ended the need for real cards is probably my favorite WotC edition of “Fuck around and find out”
Wait, but isn't organized play back now that Covid is over (*fingers crossed*) ??
@@BlueTemplar15 organized play exists but it’s no where near what it once was. There is almost no path to the top, most of the large non- invitational tournaments are gone.
@@dumpydumpy7514 Ah, well, it needs some time to bounce back... (Especially since Covid is strictly speaking not over, and we're heading back into winter, so play organizers must be "dipping their toes to test the water" right now...)
@@BlueTemplar15 I don't know if you haven't noticed this yet, but civilization as we know it is in the process of collapsing right now, and those few with the power to do so are trying to pull up the ladder and bail before everything falls apart. Magic tournament play is never coming back because the average person is struggling to survive, and it turns out the average person were the people keeping the lights on at those massive tournaments. Short of an actual revolution which puts resources back into the hands of human beings instead of corporations and the snakes that run them, the conditions which allowed those tournaments to happen are never going to be returning.
I would love to be wrong about any of that. But I have been given no reason to believe I am.
@@Frommerman lol, then they are even dumber than I thought - where are they expecting to pull up the ladder to, hmm ? The freaking Moon ? (The post-credits scene in the Don't Look Up movie is in a way quite realistic about how those "lifeboat" projects tend to end up...) Rome didn't collapse in a day, it will get better before it get worse ! (We've already been through previous versions of this in the 1970s and 2008...)
P.S.: Interesting, looks like your comments are getting (shadow?)banned ?
Thank you Professor for being such a wonderful, compassionate, and understanding person. You are a much needed voice in this community.
This product needed to be:
A. Priced at $5 a pack tops.
B. Printed to demand.
I would have spent waaaay more for this than any previous product if this had been the case. I was to young to get a piece of vintage Magic.
As it is, it is the single biggest insult ever delivered in cardboard form. If I was Wizards, I'd make the changes above and start praying that damage control does something. As things stand, they are the Titanic running into an iceberg full steam on purpose.
"We can and we will keep gathering" struck me hard. You're the best that has happened to this game. Thank you for all your hard work Prof.
Having just recently started a paper magic collection and purchasing like four commander decks in about two months, I was starting to get worried about how much hobby spending I’d been doing. Any and all desire to browse online retailers and buy cards has basically completely evaporated since the announcement of this product, and I’ve since proxied two more commander decks. Thanks, Wizards!
That is so funny you say this, because I am in the exact same boat. Been keeping up with arena for years, bit I started buying paper last November for commander. After building 4 full commander decks and decimating my "fun money" I realized how much more fun it is to just print the decks I want to play with since I only play on a kitchen table! Why do I have to spend $250 just to try out a 3rd token deck?
@@Murmaider4 I’ve come to the decision that further hobby spending needs to be on things I can’t get elsewhere, or that proxying would be wildly inconvenient. I’ll still buy board games from my LGS, since I don’t want to learn how to cast resin for dice or make quality cardboard game pieces and I like supporting them, and pirating video games is just a little too risky. But I really don’t see a reason to buy any magic card that isn’t complete bulk, unless someone I play with regularly has some genuine complaint.
- I have been a bulwark against proxies for over 20 years in my local community: I've always thought highly about the strategic aspects of the game, especially the resource management, among those resources I've always included the cards themselves, so getting the real thing has always been an integral part of the game for me. If you need a specific card you have to try and get it by any means: buying packs if you have the money, establishing a network of informants, creating a local black market, trading down good cards for the ones you really need or trading collectabilia for tournament ready ones.
- Well, all that has offically ENDED! Heritage is the way to play the game and my printer definitely isn't as shitty as the ones I had 20 years ago! A big thank you to all the proxy artists that have made my current deck!
Since Netrunner moved to community management under Null Signal Games, proxies are tournament legal. Not that expensive singles are a part of Netrunner, but I love that printing out starter decks and trying it out with a friend, or even printing out a net deck and taking it to an event is something you can do with the full blessing of the people who make the cards.
It's already had that unintended consequence for me personally. I was about to order a bunch of Shocklands to refill my EDH decks after taking them out for Pioneer decks. Since proxies are now unintentionally encouraged, rather than spending a grand or so on another real playset, I spent $150 and got several playsets of proxies and a free set of dual lands to boot!
@@gh3trenty4 I used Abyss Proxy. So far no complaints and they offer foils too.
60 fake magic cards for 10$ is a great idea though. Make them look like retro starter decks would be fun
Yeah, I was excited when I heard about this product until I heard the price point.
Honnestly if they had announced it a 99.99 i think most people would have been happy with it. But WOTC is being run into the ground by the suits and old men that only see immediate profits.
I'd buy a case of them at $5 a pack, the product would explode and sell out their print que, which is likely the problem with going cheap, there's only so much print que in the world for cardboard.
I would pay very good money to draft the set. But not $1000.
If your gunna do that just print them on paper an sleve them
Thanks for being you Prof. Always nice to hear people care! It's tough out there.
They make it so stupid expensive that only really serious competitive players would pay for it. But then you can't use it competitive. Which begs the question who was this product even for?
As Prof Said, Honestly the greatest thing to come out of this is how Commander players have effectively made proxies the norm. Nobody feels bad or deny playing with anyone over proxies anymore, and it’s made commander so much more fun at my LGS since those of us in more tight financial situations can build new decks more often, run better cards, and actually feel like we’re in fair competition with the more well off members of the community. So thanks Wizards.
Hell yeah. The game should be about your creativity and critical thinking skills, not the size of your wallet.
Speaking of, who else likes the look of the gold boarder cards over the black? I have a tournament deck city of brass and the golf boarder just fits on it better.
@@Radiodragonofdoom Hate the gold borders. But that's just me. I think they look tacky on any card, and ruin the overall flavor of it.
I don’t even understand why anyone would oppose (transparent) proxy-usage before 🤷♂️
Of course an LGS would never risk openly condoning them for fear of offending WotC execs, but I’m not sure why actual players would oppose proxies in any format whatsoever
It’s so disheartening to see what could have been such an incredible anniversary for everyone, become something the divides and hurts the community.
I don't think it has divided the community I think 99% of them agree this was another terrible; decision stacked on top of some other recent terrible decision
I just don’t quite understand why anyone was under the assumption that a huge corporation “celebrating” the anniversary of a massively popular, expensive product, was going to be anything other than another ploy to make money.
welcome to the world of people who've been getting hurt by the company losing its way for half a decade now
this tbh, they had a chance to do something special and they took the time to instead find a way to profiteer and hurt their own community... I know MW died a different death but WoTC has a real problem this shit and they need to stop resting on their name and actually make people want to play MTG.
I don't see any divide beyond everyone v Wizards/Hasbro.
Mr friend sold his entire collection and proxies something like 40 commander decks. I told him about this product and he laughed and wiped his brow. “Got out on time!”. What a shitshow.
I love that my friend and I just spent the afternoon playing pauper over coffee today, and then finished with a 10 dollar order of almost 70 or 80 art cards to use as proxies; the timing is not lost on me!
What I most appreciate about you and the channel is that you're so in tune with your viewers but also call out what has to be said. For a game like mtg to charge more than some peoples living expenses for a game is insanity and just a reminder of how out of touch with reality wizards is. I bought a bandsaw and a nice sander with my mtg 30th anniversary money :)
Your comment implies you get a full game...
Nice, I just got a benchtop drum sander instead of the 30th, guess which one will pay for itself first.
@@a.j.simmonds6324 the problem is, that you may even sell the fake packs with a profit. And i am not saying that this is a good thing
@@a.j.simmonds6324 those are the best for figured wood!
What the hell is a bandsaw? 😐
You are a hero for this community, Professor. Keep fighting the corporate greed and let's keep Magic accessible for everyone! 🙌
i'm fine with running the danger hairs, troons and sjw's off.
A somewhat fitting anniversary product if you ask me. Totally in the spirit of WotC.
You have such heart; and compassion for people and love for the game. Keeps me coming back. That, and you’ve got the best bookshelf in the business.
Now I’m shopping affordable printers instead of new cards. I hope everyone at Wotc watches this. Great video thank you Prof!
Reminds me of Warhammer. The company behind it is just as greedy and it tried to make people who print their own stuff on a 3d printer feel bad about it (cuz they are ruining the fun). I think they forced shop owners to ban people with 3d printer stuff from playing (casually) at their shops, too. If you don't follow the rule as a shop owner, they gonna 'forget' about your orders or so, etc.
Some 3d prints have costs 5 bucks and look better than the 50 bucks version.
I started my proxy adventures just last week. Printed out 5 decks so far, sleeved up from dragonshields i bought at my lgs (fuck WotC, but might as well keep supporting local business when i can). I suggest getting one of those paper cutters, either the large blade table one, or the slide-blade. Cutting everything by hand with scissors will cramp your hand quicker than you think.
Make sure you get some good cardstock too
I breathed such a sigh of relief when I saw this product dropped and the mass consensus was “yeah, get bent wizards”
But will they "get bent"? Probably not
@@Big_Dai Depends, are they foils?
@@mylokirby2718 LMFAO
And yet there are plenty of people still buying them...
@@GoldenSunAlex sadly there will always be people with more money than common sense and even more sadly, enough so that WoTC will still likely make a stupid amount of money with this product. But as for the majority player base; we basically all collectively said this was stupid as hell
I would have loved to do a proxy draft "Vintage Masters Draft"
I find it fascinating how more and more people every year are finally learning that you don't need massive companies creating the games we love to keep playing them, or even coming up with new content. Communities ultimately are in charge of the future of these games, not the companies that produce them.
Look at Star Wars CCG from Decipher, Android Netrunner and other LCGs from FFG, Star Wars Destiny also from FFG, and a variety of other dead CCGs. These games still get played regularly and in many cases, also get new content for them created by communities. I think it's great more and more people are discovering how amazing these games are and how we as the community who play them are in charge of their future.
The reaction of the 30th anniversary is that 3/4th of my playgroup either sold or reduced their collection of MTG cards. lmao
Sadly that doesn’t hurt their sales. I’m with you thow. 🙏🏻
This is the same as Disney only inviting 60 guest into the park for a 30 year anniversary event.
No because even that has more merit because it's still 60 people that get to go to Disney. A more accurate representation is "Disney inviting 60 guests to a Dave & Buster's with Disney decorations they threw up. All for the low low price of quadruple the park ticket"
A valid point. Those 60 people would still be getting a literal once in a life genuine Disney experience.
People who buy MTG30 can't use the cards they've bought in any official format.
Disney just sold a $100k 20 day 6 country 6 park all in trip. Sold out almost instantly. That's how you cater to whales.
Or you could get 1000 30th packs and maybe get a fake Black Lotus
Thank you good sir for not supporting this abomination of a product. I have canceled so many of my patron subscriptions and blocked any utuber that is opening this or promoting it in any way. I will not contribute to the destruction of our game
It's funny that you mentioned proxies. Me and my friend make proxies all the time and hand them out to our playgroup. Mostly cards that none of us could ever afford.
And for $1000 dollars, they could have at least just given us one of each card from the set. At the VERY least. This seriously makes me consider no longer buying Magic the Gathering products and just making proxies of what I want. It was all ready a pretty expensive hobby. And frankly I just don't think what they have been coming out with lately has been worth the investment in general.
I'm a Brazilian guy. Here Magic has always been an expensive game, and the economic situation in my country has only made it even more expensive, but my friends and I have always managed to continue playing this game that created such strong bonds and such remarkable moments. But this product is, as you said in the video Professor, a spit in our faces. For the first time I've been unmotivated with Magic. Even more so now that Flesh and Blood has finally arrived here in Brazil (even if still in a timid way).
Amazing to see another fellow brazilian! I think the same and even if I had the time to play Magic again (after 20 years and remember time to time, how joy it was back then), still prefer to play on arena (for free) or make my own proxys.
I'm from the US and Magic has always been an expensive game here too.
Also: Hello Brazil!
As a Bolivian and being Brazil's neighbor this is very true and I even switched to pauper commander in order to keep playing Magic, cause I love the game and looking for a 100 dollar card is just almost impossible.
1000$ is quite literally impossible for most south Americans to pay for lol, here in Argentina that's 10 months of salaries for most of us average folk.
gastei com Magic até 1998 quando parei de jogar. voltei em 2020 com o Arena e agora vou comprar só proxy pra jogar casual, no aliexpress tem Black Lotus Foil por 30 reais, liguei o foda-se e vou montar todos os decks que quiser pra jogar casual e todos do meu grupo vão fazer o mesmo.
Thank you professor for standing up for the little man a lot of magic creators wouldn’t and aren’t
That last part hit. My friends and i are returning to MtG after 12 years and even with all the BS that WotC is doing for their customers, we the players have 10000% control of our play experiences with our relationship with the game. Even if that means playing only sets that brought that feeling of gathering 12 years ago and proxies.
I just recently returned to magic after my wife got me some forgotten realms. And the only thing the 30th anniversary did was make sure I'll only be playing with proxies or online for free.
If they don't want me as a customer, I won't be a customer.
I’ve only been playing Magic for a month now and I absolutely love it. However, it’s only taken me one month to realize that wizards of the coast does NOT care about their players. Love your videos, you’ve taught me a whole lot. I wish you could run the show, I feel you understand this community better than wizards of the Coast ever will.
Poor bugger, if you love it now it was like 10x better 3 years ago.
@@Bakeddru Been playing for over a decade, it ebbs and flows for sure. I have been steadily more worried about the future but at the same time I think MTGA is by far the best card game digital experience. Not that it's cheap, but I'd much rather gather cards for a set via drafting in MTGA then opening packs in the other games I've seen.
Ya. Wizards had lost it mind. It's stupid. I blame hasbro for this as well. Putting massive profit increase demands on wizards. But what they are doing is good for someone like me. I have been playing off and on since revised. So I have old stuff already. But the endless arms race and reprinting. Ya, I don't go to tournaments. So no need to rebuild decks to fit a format. We are all just playing. Go a head and print shock and fetch lands down to nothing some day. I don't care. I'm not investing it what will become worthless someday. When wizards destroys this game. Do all sorts of crazy things without having to spend crazy money. Because it's all about the power level and meta game of the people you are playing with.
@@thomasvontom Pauper.
@@Chronon88 Pauper is cool format. I will give credit to it. But for me. I just keep a range of decks on hand. From fearing my own deck as much as my foe. To turn one you need to solve this problem now. It seems to work for me. If you got a play group wanting to play good games. Any one can bring anything. And people can shift up and down to make games happen that night.
"Nobody forces you to buy it" easily countered by "nobody forces you to sell it"
Hasbro and it's shareholders are...
Dumb argument. The fact that there are people who WILL buy it is reason enough for WOTC to sell it.
@@willjackson5885 And yet nobody is forcing them to do it.
@@willjackson5885 nah dude. Make a product 100 people are willing to buy or a product that 1,000,000 people are willing to buy? Just because people will buy it is not, in fact, reason enough to make it.
@@willjackson5885 dumb counter, just because someone will buy it doesn’t mean that they are forced to sell it
MTG should have either did what Pokémon did with its “celebrations” set and make it affordable for everyone, or did what Yu-Gi-Oh! Did for its anniversary with the $1,000 Platinum Blue-Eyes White Dragon. Not try and have the best of both.
I thought Konami had shenanigans but wizards took the lead on that
Remember the 20 anniversary celebration? Where they introduced pack wars and said go into your LGS for a day of free pack wars? That got me into MTG. The 30th anniversary "celebration" has ended that 10 years of my life, and it's on to other things. It's a nice parallel into how the world has changed toward the consumer in the past 10 years.
This product is the culmination of so many moves Wizards has made over the last few years. I love Magic. I have made so many friends and rekindled old ones as a result of this game. It truly is one of my favorite hobbies. Fortunately for me and my friends, and unfortunately for Wizards of The Coast, this move has finally convinced me to stop buying products. I can’t keep up and I can barely financially afford it. I’ll continue to play commander but my play groups understand that I’ll be proxying from here on out. It’s how it has to be for me. My play groups also started expanding into other card games, like Flesh and Blood, which we have LOVED
It's interesting to note which content creators are uncommonly quiet about this set.
call them out by name bro. have the courage of your convictions.
Which ones?
@@CHRISG612 i wanna know specifically who the OP is talking about. don't beat around the bush. use names.
something like 'mtggoldfish is a big, fat PoS for endorsing this product' or 'mtgnerdgirl sucks for not calling out WoTC for this abomination'.
if it's 'interesting to note which content creators are uncommonly quiet about this set' then the OP should actually note who they're talking about; instead of just throwing out useless innuendos about a vast number of people.
@@420troll4 preach