An Ebay seller sold me a high quality fake/counterfeit magic card. I was able to get a refund, but I kept the card to make comparisons with a real magic card.
@@sinkudou85 I recommend to spend $15 on a jeweler's loupe from amazon (10x triplet). You'll see the 4 red spots inside the green dot on any card pulled from a pack. The shading might change (lighter/darker), but the red dots will be there.
Go on Mike, print something every year for 30 years and see what happens. What's your example of something printed every year for 30 years with consistency? Don't just be a critic without putting something on the table as a counterexample.
There's a book by Alan Moore, forget the name, but one story is this Roman guy in the empire days, he's investigating counter feit coins, while the story pontificates on empires, legacy, etc Well by the end of the story, Roman realizes Rome is dead as an empire since the fake coins have more gold in em than the official ones.
The depth of this analysis is really appreciated. I hope you do more of these. I would love to see a comparison between two of the same authentic cards from different printers. I have two cards from the same set that have glaringly different characteristics.
The even bigger problem here is how often WOTC changes the quality of cards printed across different sets. Literally they are almost all different. Hell I've even personally come across blatant Quality differences between 2 same cards from a same set. Because of this it makes it even harder to simply eye ball or feel differences between real and counterfeit cards. It's actually quite ridiculous. If yall don't have a jewelers loop, get one.
Yeah, I've pulled real cards out of packs that feel so poor in quality that you would swear they were fake. I've also got the same card in six different, notably different, shades of color.
There's definitely a difference between cards from a pack and cards from a starter deck. Also Modern Masters 2 cards, they feel almost like they're coated in wax
Even within the same sets, due to different printing locations, the most clear example is Belgium print offers a glossy style finish and the card feels more premium, where the fat pack USA print is or at least was a rough texture finish with zero shine, seems to me not only the stock is different but also the finish, within the same sets!
on top of that seems that Hasbro is using different inks on their printings, I got a couple of dominaria collector boxes last week and some of the cards look really different between them, more particularly on the Set's Icon's color and the card's frame, it's absurd.
Higher saturated colors and thickness differences of text does not always mean a card is fake. I opened some collector packs of kamigawa last year and got two borderless otawara. One of them looks as an usual blue colored card. The other one has a more purple looking color and the text on the bottom containing the copyright is thinner. So there are differences in print quality even within the same set.
been in the printing industry for over 15 years and working on Offset Presses. All of your information is valid. but i will say that sometimes when a Press is running and becomes low on Ink within the fountain. the output will become ether lighter or off color. it is up to the pressman to catch those sheets but a lot of the time it goes though. even cracking open packs i've seen the offset print be off
If a print does later runs or goes to different printers, will the offset angles be identical across print runs and printers? Or can that vary with authentic cards?
@@Lexaire depends on how the plates were made. What size the machine was. 40 / 48 / 64 / 80 are some examples of widths printers come in. Just depends on what got approved. I would assume wotc uses multiple shops to print cards. There’s a master sheet that goes out to the shops and it’s on the pressman to make sure it matches. Doesn’t mean people don’t do a bad job or shit went wrong along the way
@@LegiondaryBroCEDH is a very different community compared to every other format out there. The mentality is pretty much “how much pure strength can we squeeze out of the EDH format to make the highest-powered games possible?” In CEDH (and EDH in general), multicolored decks are extremely popular due to offering a broader pool of options. Running the best dual lands possible then becomes necessary in order to meet the aforementioned mentality/goal of the format. Same thing goes for the spells - it doesn’t make sense to skip over Force of Will or Enlightened Tutor when the power level of the games are the whole appeal of the format. A 100-card deck becomes prohibitively expensive as it becomes more and more optimized, and many cEDH players believe that they shouldn’t need to spend thousands of dollars to play an optimal deck. The format is much more popular than something like vintage, and a wotc-sponsored cEDH event WITHOUT proxies likely wouldn’t gain enough interest/players to even run. The overwhelming majority of cEDH players proxy some of the more expensive cards in their decks, it’s just how that community exists.
@@Googahgee I've never had any issues from anyone. I'm upfront and tell people in 6-9 lobbies " hey it's an expensive game I'm playing all proxies" and everyone is chill with it
When he first put the two up side by side, made me think about the modern horizons set itself. I opened 9 boxes, most were japanese printer ones with the rare up front, but 2 were the other printer(think it was printed in US). I know it would be expensive to check out two boxes and match up several of the cards to see if there is a difference there.
I bought two Archon of Cruelty cards from Modern Horizons 2, and I could tell they were from different printers (Japanese vs US I think) I compare them in another video. They look a bit different even under a microscope ruclips.net/video/NXse4gbNm4s/видео.html
For offset printing, blues will generally fluctuate towards a purple and away during a print run based upon the flow rates of the water and ink and the amount of coverage of the magenta unit. The difference in blues and the set symbol can easily be attributed to the oscillation of the magenta % on the specific keys that this card is layed out for on the print sheet. This is not a surefire way to detect a fake. Using a jewelers loupe and detecting the screen angle of CMYK is the better way of doing this. As there are a few screen angles printers use and unless a printer burned their offset plates at a specific screen angle that matches the printer that printed the real card, you can detect a legit vs fake if the screen angles of the colors don't match.
Wow, excellent video! I made a similar one a few months ago (In french), I covered a broader variety of checkpoints. I like yours because you choose less characteristics in favor of extreme detail on each one. Continue your great work!
The problem is that WOTC's quality control and anti counterfeit protect is just so far behind. Most people don't have the tools or knowledge to check these things, as a result these scammers are making quite a bit of money.
@@JoeyLamontagne well technically they didn’t get money for the fake card they should care. If the expensive cards that are supposed to be the rarest are printed in mass by fake eBay scammers WoTC loses.
Props been playing since 95'. 90% of the time I rely on the light test. I had a foil Karn where you couldn't even see through the card and argued with the seller until eBay stepped in and gave me a refund. I have heard though that there's different types of cardstock. I am aware of how to use a Jeweler's loupe to double verify. But u taught me something new with the hologram wizard security. Good job and thank you!
Cool video, have to point out though that is not at all why it is called Offset Printing. The offset is how the ink goes from plate to impression cylinder to stock not the angles of the halftone which are rarely perfect in any way, all depends on how the camera operator places the screen on the original when capturing the image.
When something seems off the back is the go to usually. Counterfeiters never pay enough attention to it, we all know exactly what's supposed to look like (and haves piles and piles to compare against), while being full of tiny details to compare.
This reminds me of a imperial seal a friend bought for 1/10 of the price off EBay. I was shocked to see it and picked it up and felt the bend was off. From there after unsleeving everything was ‘off’. Checked the back, and sure enough it was missing red dots. Jeweler’s eye only confirmed it.
its cool to see the slight differences between the real & fakes, but you are educating the counterfeiters on where they need to improve. Soon there will be no difference.
Also the there's noticeable grainyness and diagonal lines in the top of the border of the card. Also in the zoom in of the green dot there's no mountain shape I look for
0:45 if you look at the border, the inner border - the very first outline of blue, you can see the difference. The fake is grainier. That's just with the naked eye. You might not notice it alone but side by side you can definitely see a difference.
Nice. Good to see that Green Dot + Light is still enough. Also I noticed the eye appeal was different too. Thanks for the video. I have been basically using feel+Light test and only needing to check green dot when I'm not sure. And glad to see it still works. I will add that the light test seems to show a very dark red pattern (different core paper) for majority of the BRO cards and a small portion of the ELD cards.
Loop/Magnifying glasses is really only way to tell. There is too much variance in color to use that as a determiner without looking through the lens. Thanks for sharing those details.
Agreed for the most part, but I did come up with a method without using a loupe using a smartphone camera to check the dot pattern, in a follow up video
10:21 Here the fake shows definite underprinting of high density of color ink, which is a technique common to ink-jet, but not offset printing. This is done in ink-jets to both increase black density, and also to help avoid black bleed. This isn't needed on offset printing.
Great video, I'd love to see you do older cards. The print variation between legitimate cards can exist and it makes it so hard sometimes. And modern changes like stamps and even sometimes cores aren't available to validate. Revised duals would be a interesting video to watch!
Great idea. I do have some revised duals I can compare with some high quality fakes in a future video. Older cards are actually easier to tell when they are fake, since the card consistency was much better back then and the old card stock is much more difficult to replicate
The loupe doesn’t lie . what card you compare it to does not matter . only people who don’t know how to tell if a card is real Would think that it does
i have personally.. pull the same card from legit packs.. bought from a card store... and one pack would have a dark set symbol.. and a few weeks later.. another one would have a lighter set symbol
If this is the quality of a fake, I'll take it. At this point, I honestly don't care enough because of "authenticity from WotC" when they're crooks themselves.
As long as you're not selling, no problem. If you're misrepresenting a product though, that's not ok. Just be honest, and it's not a problem. But also, if you're just playing with proxies, why do you need to attempt such a exact recreation? Just get a funny card art proxy instead. Sounds like you want to misrepresent what you've got to someone more ignorant than yourself.
@Kingzlayer CH I'd be pretty pissed if I spent $50 for a card only to find out it's fake. Now if I knew ahead of time it was fake and only like 5 bucks, that I'd get behind.
I can see the lower quality printing dots even before you zoomed in and explained it. @ 1080p on my screen. Ive been collecting and playing since 95' and have cards from all era's of the game, which makes spotting fakes way easier I guess.
Great video! Another way you can check the color of the core is by looking at the edge of the card to see the layers of paper and glue. (Although, I've seen REAL Magic cards these days with black cores.)
Ultimate Masters cards light test red instead of blue which is normally a sign of a fake. I think there might be another set or two with the same issue.
Good video. This card is fake but the variations in color are natural even among the same set or the same card, telling people who don't know better that it's an indicator of a fake card is dangerous. Compare the corners, the way they are cut, that's a huge tell. Also the fact that the black isn't printed on top as a solid black line in some areas. You can see these things with the naked eye but if you want to be sure just check the 4 red dots with a cheap 60x jeweler's loupe, it's only a few dollars and you won't have any doubts.
I don't think there is a problem with using a fake card as a proxy to play with, unless playing in a sanctioned tournament. The major problem is those trying to sell fakes as though they are real and ripping off people.
@@DismalDante In a sanctioned tournament is anyone ever going to inspect your cards this closely to see such minute details, especially through a sleeve?
@@trevorjohnson1523 I think some judges do but don’t quote me on that. And I doubt they look at rosettes and the like, probably just feel and look of the card unsleeved is my guess
@@trevorjohnson1523 the real issue is when it comes to collecting high-value cards. If you play a fake at a tournament and tell them that you bought it at your local game store they probably aren't going to rip you too hard for it. Most people aren't taking the time to inspect their cards this closely. But for somebody who goes to make a high dollar purchase of an extremely valuable and rare card, it is absolutely a terrifying prospect to buy something that is not real.
I bought a foil playset of this very card not long ago. 1 of them looked off a bit. I suspected it might be a counterfeit but I'm not an expert. I figured I paid real price for it so im gunna play it like it's a real card. Not sure what else to do. I don't think returning it is an option at this point.
No one could probably tell if it was being played in a sleeve unless they compared it directly to a real one close up and noticed the set symbol color was off
Just curious, if you do a super high definition scan of the real card and print on a super high resolution printer, will you be able to replicate the exact printing?
Good thought, but I don't think such a printer exists that can print at the level of detail as individual print dots seen at the microscopic level. I don't see any technical reasons why such a thing could not be done though, other than the enormous cost
Its possible to remove the holofoil stamps off bulk rares and transplant them onto proxies, but the chinese sellers probably have access to just very similar looking holofoil tape rolls. Holofoil stamps aren't a good indication of legitimacy in general. If you look through your collection you probably have a lot of cards with really scuffed placement on the holofoil stamp or even tears/missing pieces.
Breaking news just in! It was recently found out that the counterfeit printer has been ID'd. Apparently, it is unsurprisingly, Wizards of the Coast themselves. Just another self-own in the corporate world of merchandising. Back to you, Dante.
@@DismalDante Also some of the proxies that I have have micro-prints, it's different from the original ones though, the spaces are wider, the text is smaller as well. I just wanted to inform you that the new batches have those now.
So the set symbol looks more gold, the color more saturated, but not badly, and the card is stiffer than the real card. Maybe Wizards should find these guys and get the to make their rare cards FOR them.
The eBay seller did not say where they got it from, but they said that they genuinely did not know the card was fake and gave a proper refund and apology
@DismalDante I had a similar experience, and the person said they got it from Walmart. I assume one of the online resellers. Caution with the Walmart resellers!
The proxy has way too rounded corners, an ever so slightly bigger chin on the boarder, way too centered, the stamp shows too much of the pattern for the amount of light, the text on the bottom is minutely larger, different brush symbols on artist stamp, bolder letters, slight color differences. What I'm trying to say is, if it looks too high quality, it's probably a proxy lol.
Hell what's the seller on those fakes I wouldn't mind finding out what equipment they use to make proxies with I have issues buying proxies and they don't shuffle right
Try buying a pack that is from Belgium and an American pack(you can buy them in north america, just check under the flap of the pack). Then try to compare the two. Also, why didn't you just rip it to see if the inside has the print ink line?
I do have a video ruclips.net/video/NXse4gbNm4s/видео.html where I compare 2 Archon of Cruelty cards from MH2 that I can tell were printed on two separate printing locations, since they feel different. They look different under a microscope too, but still maintain the right print dot pattern.
the difference though between Belgium, USA, and Japan printings of the same set is so dramatic. The Belgium ones especially feel waxy and the color is very different.
The proxies are mostly used by casual cEDH players. It's easy to tell based on the font on the bottom, it's really unfortunate that some people will try to take advantage and try to pass them off as real. I just like them cause I wanna play cEDH decks at home but can't afford crazy expensive cards. I guess it's one of those things where you just have to hope people won't try to pass them off as real in tournaments and stuff like that, but some people will always try to get away with that stuff.
Recently switched from yugioh to magic, so i can only talk about my experience in locals, so if they do check the cards in an official tournament they would probably notice. But as far as locals go, no one would notice especially as you are focused on the game. So i think fake cards are fairly widespread, most wont even know, but who would even blame thoose who blatantly cheat considering card prices.
The small details that are different from each other, probably because they printed it out of a original card with those "differences" already since even the original cards can't keep up consistense with their details. In resume, the fake looks pretty good except for ones business.
Игры
The fakes would be easier to spot if WOTC had any consistency in its printing.
I remember pulling blues that were purple from Battle for Baldurs Gate cause of how bad the print quality was.
FWIW, the 4 red dots inside the green dot on the back of the card is present on all real magic cards and I've never seen on a fake card - yet.
imposibble because WOTC using outscourcing for doing printing, and every machine got differnt grading.
@@sinkudou85 I recommend to spend $15 on a jeweler's loupe from amazon (10x triplet). You'll see the 4 red spots inside the green dot on any card pulled from a pack. The shading might change (lighter/darker), but the red dots will be there.
Go on Mike, print something every year for 30 years and see what happens. What's your example of something printed every year for 30 years with consistency? Don't just be a critic without putting something on the table as a counterexample.
When counterfeiters make better quality cards than WotC
I thought I have a hair on my screen and I touched it and it turned out it was just your profile pic :P
prob cheaper as well lol
There's a book by Alan Moore, forget the name, but one story is this Roman guy in the empire days, he's investigating counter feit coins, while the story pontificates on empires, legacy, etc
Well by the end of the story, Roman realizes Rome is dead as an empire since the fake coins have more gold in em than the official ones.
A lot cheaper
Just get counterfeit cards man. It ain’t worth the money. You can either spend 1500 or 100.
@@steelmyr1485 my friend showed me website where I can get 100 proxies that you can’t tell from res cards for 22$
WotC didn't even get the back of the card correct on their proxies. 10/10
is that to prevent people from splitting cards and gluing them together?
The depth of this analysis is really appreciated. I hope you do more of these. I would love to see a comparison between two of the same authentic cards from different printers. I have two cards from the same set that have glaringly different characteristics.
The even bigger problem here is how often WOTC changes the quality of cards printed across different sets. Literally they are almost all different. Hell I've even personally come across blatant Quality differences between 2 same cards from a same set. Because of this it makes it even harder to simply eye ball or feel differences between real and counterfeit cards. It's actually quite ridiculous.
If yall don't have a jewelers loop, get one.
Yeah, I've pulled real cards out of packs that feel so poor in quality that you would swear they were fake. I've also got the same card in six different, notably different, shades of color.
There's definitely a difference between cards from a pack and cards from a starter deck. Also Modern Masters 2 cards, they feel almost like they're coated in wax
Even within the same sets, due to different printing locations, the most clear example is Belgium print offers a glossy style finish and the card feels more premium, where the fat pack USA print is or at least was a rough texture finish with zero shine, seems to me not only the stock is different but also the finish, within the same sets!
They literally have different qualities inside a set. I bought two official french Midnight hunt displays. One had darker cards...
on top of that seems that Hasbro is using different inks on their printings, I got a couple of dominaria collector boxes last week and some of the cards look really different between them, more particularly on the Set's Icon's color and the card's frame, it's absurd.
Higher saturated colors and thickness differences of text does not always mean a card is fake. I opened some collector packs of kamigawa last year and got two borderless otawara. One of them looks as an usual blue colored card. The other one has a more purple looking color and the text on the bottom containing the copyright is thinner. So there are differences in print quality even within the same set.
been in the printing industry for over 15 years and working on Offset Presses. All of your information is valid. but i will say that sometimes when a Press is running and becomes low on Ink within the fountain. the output will become ether lighter or off color. it is up to the pressman to catch those sheets but a lot of the time it goes though. even cracking open packs i've seen the offset print be off
If a print does later runs or goes to different printers, will the offset angles be identical across print runs and printers? Or can that vary with authentic cards?
@@Lexaire depends on how the plates were made. What size the machine was. 40 / 48 / 64 / 80 are some examples of widths printers come in. Just depends on what got approved. I would assume wotc uses multiple shops to print cards. There’s a master sheet that goes out to the shops and it’s on the pressman to make sure it matches. Doesn’t mean people don’t do a bad job or shit went wrong along the way
Great video! Really interesting to see the cards compared in such detail.
So where can I buy these tournament legal proxies? 🤣
they actually had a WOTC CEDH event where proxies were legal sadly
@@LegiondaryBroCEDH is a very different community compared to every other format out there. The mentality is pretty much “how much pure strength can we squeeze out of the EDH format to make the highest-powered games possible?”
In CEDH (and EDH in general), multicolored decks are extremely popular due to offering a broader pool of options. Running the best dual lands possible then becomes necessary in order to meet the aforementioned mentality/goal of the format. Same thing goes for the spells - it doesn’t make sense to skip over Force of Will or Enlightened Tutor when the power level of the games are the whole appeal of the format. A 100-card deck becomes prohibitively expensive as it becomes more and more optimized, and many cEDH players believe that they shouldn’t need to spend thousands of dollars to play an optimal deck. The format is much more popular than something like vintage, and a wotc-sponsored cEDH event WITHOUT proxies likely wouldn’t gain enough interest/players to even run. The overwhelming majority of cEDH players proxy some of the more expensive cards in their decks, it’s just how that community exists.
@@Googahgee I've never had any issues from anyone. I'm upfront and tell people in 6-9 lobbies " hey it's an expensive game I'm playing all proxies" and everyone is chill with it
When he first put the two up side by side, made me think about the modern horizons set itself. I opened 9 boxes, most were japanese printer ones with the rare up front, but 2 were the other printer(think it was printed in US). I know it would be expensive to check out two boxes and match up several of the cards to see if there is a difference there.
I bought two Archon of Cruelty cards from Modern Horizons 2, and I could tell they were from different printers (Japanese vs US I think) I compare them in another video. They look a bit different even under a microscope ruclips.net/video/NXse4gbNm4s/видео.html
For offset printing, blues will generally fluctuate towards a purple and away during a print run based upon the flow rates of the water and ink and the amount of coverage of the magenta unit. The difference in blues and the set symbol can easily be attributed to the oscillation of the magenta % on the specific keys that this card is layed out for on the print sheet. This is not a surefire way to detect a fake.
Using a jewelers loupe and detecting the screen angle of CMYK is the better way of doing this. As there are a few screen angles printers use and unless a printer burned their offset plates at a specific screen angle that matches the printer that printed the real card, you can detect a legit vs fake if the screen angles of the colors don't match.
Some great info! I hadn't seen the difference between the dot angles presented before. That fake is hard to tell without zooming in!
Thank you for taking the time to make this video!!
Wow, excellent video! I made a similar one a few months ago (In french), I covered a broader variety of checkpoints. I like yours because you choose less characteristics in favor of extreme detail on each one. Continue your great work!
The problem is that WOTC's quality control and anti counterfeit protect is just so far behind. Most people don't have the tools or knowledge to check these things, as a result these scammers are making quite a bit of money.
honestly, until they fix the rampant curling problem with their card stock, i support people using fake cards.
I bought a 120x handheld microscope for 11 bucks and I greendot verify everything I get that's over $5.
Hasbro don't care. They got their money.
Hasbro doesn't give a shit lol
@@JoeyLamontagne well technically they didn’t get money for the fake card they should care. If the expensive cards that are supposed to be the rarest are printed in mass by fake eBay scammers WoTC loses.
Props been playing since 95'. 90% of the time I rely on the light test. I had a foil Karn where you couldn't even see through the card and argued with the seller until eBay stepped in and gave me a refund. I have heard though that there's different types of cardstock. I am aware of how to use a Jeweler's loupe to double verify. But u taught me something new with the hologram wizard security. Good job and thank you!
Cool video, have to point out though that is not at all why it is called Offset Printing. The offset is how the ink goes from plate to impression cylinder to stock not the angles of the halftone which are rarely perfect in any way, all depends on how the camera operator places the screen on the original when capturing the image.
I still thought it was real after the first video until now. Wow this is extremely concerning
How so?
When something seems off the back is the go to usually. Counterfeiters never pay enough attention to it, we all know exactly what's supposed to look like (and haves piles and piles to compare against), while being full of tiny details to compare.
I ALWAYS keep an eye out for the small RED "L" in the green orb with my jewelers loupe.
Same.
L is for Loupe
Would love videos like this for Sorcery: Contested Realm & Grand Archive & Mythrel in the future. Excellent work!
This reminds me of a imperial seal a friend bought for 1/10 of the price off EBay. I was shocked to see it and picked it up and felt the bend was off. From there after unsleeving everything was ‘off’. Checked the back, and sure enough it was missing red dots. Jeweler’s eye only confirmed it.
At least he didn't pay full price.
@DismalDante What microscope do you use to get those amazing;y clear close up shots?
Digital Microscope a.co/d/25meHRV
its cool to see the slight differences between the real & fakes, but you are educating the counterfeiters on where they need to improve. Soon there will be no difference.
Also the there's noticeable grainyness and diagonal lines in the top of the border of the card. Also in the zoom in of the green dot there's no mountain shape I look for
0:45 if you look at the border, the inner border - the very first outline of blue, you can see the difference. The fake is grainier. That's just with the naked eye. You might not notice it alone but side by side you can definitely see a difference.
The only thing you have to check is the chain around Deckmaster it suppose to be small ball rather that a straight line, the fake can't make the dot's
Thanks for sharing, really appreciate the detailed breakdown!
Plot twist. Wizards is behind fakes to drive up sealed product.
Thanks for the video. Just dropped $450 to finish up a Commander deck. Gonna examine them all with these tips.
Great work, nice to know the hologram isn't completely useless!
What digital microscope are you using? I would like to get one if it's not too expensive.
a.co/d/25meHRV
Very best explanation i've seen done Thanks!
Hi, I was wondering what device you used to get such high quality, close up images. Would love to have a similar tool!
Digital Microscope a.co/d/25meHRV
Nice. Good to see that Green Dot + Light is still enough. Also I noticed the eye appeal was different too. Thanks for the video. I have been basically using feel+Light test and only needing to check green dot when I'm not sure. And glad to see it still works.
I will add that the light test seems to show a very dark red pattern (different core paper) for majority of the BRO cards and a small portion of the ELD cards.
Also MH2 and DM2022. Don't know what trash printing factory those are from but fuck WotC for saving pennies here and there.
Even WOTC is selling now proxies so where is the deal with ebay proxies?
Excellent video unfortunately the market is being saturated by fake card's especially uncommons!
Loop/Magnifying glasses is really only way to tell. There is too much variance in color to use that as a determiner without looking through the lens.
Thanks for sharing those details.
Agreed for the most part, but I did come up with a method without using a loupe using a smartphone camera to check the dot pattern, in a follow up video
@@DismalDante I think that’s great too, and it all comes down to the same input, close-up looks at the printing process.
10:21 Here the fake shows definite underprinting of high density of color ink, which is a technique common to ink-jet, but not offset printing. This is done in ink-jets to both increase black density, and also to help avoid black bleed. This isn't needed on offset printing.
What digital microscope do you use?
a.co/d/25meHRV
Excellent video my friend. Thanks for sharing!
Thats a really good printing. Probably the best quality proxy I have seen.
So what is the follow-up? Can you press charges somehow with this?
How did you capture such high resolution images of that magnification
With a digital microscope 🔬
I bet if you put these on a sleeve and played a tournament no one would want to check your cards to see if they're real or not.
I personally know people that went and made top 8 of big Italian and European tournament with decks that were at least 50% fake lmao
Great video, I'd love to see you do older cards. The print variation between legitimate cards can exist and it makes it so hard sometimes. And modern changes like stamps and even sometimes cores aren't available to validate. Revised duals would be a interesting video to watch!
Great idea. I do have some revised duals I can compare with some high quality fakes in a future video. Older cards are actually easier to tell when they are fake, since the card consistency was much better back then and the old card stock is much more difficult to replicate
where did you get the fake from? i’m interested
The loupe doesn’t lie . what card you compare it to does not matter . only people who don’t know how to tell if a card is real Would think that it does
i have personally.. pull the same card from legit packs.. bought from a card store... and one pack would have a dark set symbol.. and a few weeks later.. another one would have a lighter set symbol
If this is the quality of a fake, I'll take it. At this point, I honestly don't care enough because of "authenticity from WotC" when they're crooks themselves.
its all made up, its like saying my made up card is better than yours, Fuck WOTC.
i only play with friends. an at this point who cares
As long as you're not selling, no problem. If you're misrepresenting a product though, that's not ok. Just be honest, and it's not a problem. But also, if you're just playing with proxies, why do you need to attempt such a exact recreation? Just get a funny card art proxy instead. Sounds like you want to misrepresent what you've got to someone more ignorant than yourself.
Please state all laws violated by said "crooks" Stop confusing being a BUSINESS and making money for "crooks". JFC
@Kingzlayer CH I'd be pretty pissed if I spent $50 for a card only to find out it's fake. Now if I knew ahead of time it was fake and only like 5 bucks, that I'd get behind.
Thank you for the video.
This video was honestly very educational
what are some things we can use if we don't have a jeweler's loupe?
I'm glad you asked, I just put up a new video explaining how to check authenticity without any tools like a jewelers loupe
I can see the lower quality printing dots even before you zoomed in and explained it. @ 1080p on my screen. Ive been collecting and playing since 95' and have cards from all era's of the game, which makes spotting fakes way easier I guess.
This was allot of fun to watch!!
whats microscope you use?
a.co/d/25meHRV
Thank you for this!
I've gotten prints of the same card the look much different. One had much bolder font. And I've seen color differences between identical prints.
this is insane how theres a security feature that you cant even see
Great video! Another way you can check the color of the core is by looking at the edge of the card to see the layers of paper and glue. (Although, I've seen REAL Magic cards these days with black cores.)
Ultimate Masters cards light test red instead of blue which is normally a sign of a fake. I think there might be another set or two with the same issue.
False
Good video.
This card is fake but the variations in color are natural even among the same set or the same card, telling people who don't know better that it's an indicator of a fake card is dangerous.
Compare the corners, the way they are cut, that's a huge tell. Also the fact that the black isn't printed on top as a solid black line in some areas. You can see these things with the naked eye but if you want to be sure just check the 4 red dots with a cheap 60x jeweler's loupe, it's only a few dollars and you won't have any doubts.
So I recently just got into magic, is it illegal to use a “fake card” in magic? If it looks this similar and such, will it be a problem using it?
I don't think there is a problem with using a fake card as a proxy to play with, unless playing in a sanctioned tournament. The major problem is those trying to sell fakes as though they are real and ripping off people.
@@DismalDante In a sanctioned tournament is anyone ever going to inspect your cards this closely to see such minute details, especially through a sleeve?
@@trevorjohnson1523 I think some judges do but don’t quote me on that. And I doubt they look at rosettes and the like, probably just feel and look of the card unsleeved is my guess
@@trevorjohnson1523 no; but if buying; especially on ebay; you better have 98-100% rating.
@@trevorjohnson1523 the real issue is when it comes to collecting high-value cards. If you play a fake at a tournament and tell them that you bought it at your local game store they probably aren't going to rip you too hard for it. Most people aren't taking the time to inspect their cards this closely. But for somebody who goes to make a high dollar purchase of an extremely valuable and rare card, it is absolutely a terrifying prospect to buy something that is not real.
Thanks. That was really helpfull
This is like a master class for anyone looking to make better fakes..
What about the rounded corners on the fake one?
I did mention that right before I did the light test toward the end of the video
Thanks for sharing
The green dot also has that straight edge that always seems to be forgotten by counterfeiters. Definitely no straight edge on that fake.
This is probably the best video I've ever seen on the topic of fake cards, thank you so much for sharing!
Lolz
I wonder if this will have the effect of counterfeiters trying to make them like the real ones, now that they have more information.
I bought a foil playset of this very card not long ago. 1 of them looked off a bit. I suspected it might be a counterfeit but I'm not an expert. I figured I paid real price for it so im gunna play it like it's a real card. Not sure what else to do. I don't think returning it is an option at this point.
That was way too fun to watch, insta sub from me, keep em going!
P.S: Yes, i just decided im about to go play some MTG arena again, hahaha ♥
Even after explaining it they still looks exactly the same to me 😂
How can someone tell if you're playing it in a sleeve?
No one could probably tell if it was being played in a sleeve unless they compared it directly to a real one close up and noticed the set symbol color was off
@@DismalDante Exactly. No one would suspect unless it's a FoN stack during gameplay and they spot the difference.
Sets them both down and forgets which is which*.
"I'm just gonna run it"
Epic video!!!
What company makes these fakes??? My play group doesn't mind proxies
Just curious, if you do a super high definition scan of the real card and print on a super high resolution printer, will you be able to replicate the exact printing?
Good thought, but I don't think such a printer exists that can print at the level of detail as individual print dots seen at the microscopic level. I don't see any technical reasons why such a thing could not be done though, other than the enormous cost
The name font was bigger in the fake then the real and everything was slightly more darker.
How is it fake? It has that shiny stamp at the bottom????
Its possible to remove the holofoil stamps off bulk rares and transplant them onto proxies, but the chinese sellers probably have access to just very similar looking holofoil tape rolls. Holofoil stamps aren't a good indication of legitimacy in general. If you look through your collection you probably have a lot of cards with really scuffed placement on the holofoil stamp or even tears/missing pieces.
@@gold4428 wow! 🤦♂️
Breaking news just in! It was recently found out that the counterfeit printer has been ID'd. Apparently, it is unsurprisingly, Wizards of the Coast themselves. Just another self-own in the corporate world of merchandising. Back to you, Dante.
If you have Saul Goodman an Exacto knife, glue sticks, a printing shop and a couple hours he could make a better looking fake card.
The light test is an obsolete authentication method, there are fakes that will pass it. Only the loupe / microscope method is valid now.
Agree the light method is obsolete. I have a follow up video on a method to check without using a loupe/microscope that I think is reliable as well
@@DismalDante Also some of the proxies that I have have micro-prints, it's different from the original ones though, the spaces are wider, the text is smaller as well. I just wanted to inform you that the new batches have those now.
@@MarkSalazar69 Thanks! I will be getting some new proxies in the near future for comparison
So the set symbol looks more gold, the color more saturated, but not badly,
and the card is stiffer than the real card.
Maybe Wizards should find these guys and get the to make their rare cards FOR them.
Awesome, gonna start buying these to save cash. Paying a premium for cardboard is silly.
Nice! I learned alot! dang fake cards...
Did you ask the seller where they got this card from? I am always interested in that response.
The eBay seller did not say where they got it from, but they said that they genuinely did not know the card was fake and gave a proper refund and apology
@DismalDante I had a similar experience, and the person said they got it from Walmart. I assume one of the online resellers. Caution with the Walmart resellers!
would be interesting to compare two real cards
Where to buy!? :0
When you said the set symbol was off on colour you can also tell the symbol is a different shape then the real one
The proxy has way too rounded corners, an ever so slightly bigger chin on the boarder, way too centered, the stamp shows too much of the pattern for the amount of light, the text on the bottom is minutely larger, different brush symbols on artist stamp, bolder letters, slight color differences. What I'm trying to say is, if it looks too high quality, it's probably a proxy lol.
Hell what's the seller on those fakes I wouldn't mind finding out what equipment they use to make proxies with I have issues buying proxies and they don't shuffle right
I've examined common cards and have seen the same inconsistencies. I think a lot of it is Wizard's inconsistent printing
Try buying a pack that is from Belgium and an American pack(you can buy them in north america, just check under the flap of the pack). Then try to compare the two. Also, why didn't you just rip it to see if the inside has the print ink line?
I do have a video ruclips.net/video/NXse4gbNm4s/видео.html where I compare 2 Archon of Cruelty cards from MH2 that I can tell were printed on two separate printing locations, since they feel different. They look different under a microscope too, but still maintain the right print dot pattern.
@@DismalDante That's so cool, thanks for sharing!
the difference though between Belgium, USA, and Japan printings of the same set is so dramatic. The Belgium ones especially feel waxy and the color is very different.
where can i buy these fakes?
Oh thats a paint brush symbol next to the artists name.... I thought it was something else for a moment....
The proxies are mostly used by casual cEDH players. It's easy to tell based on the font on the bottom, it's really unfortunate that some people will try to take advantage and try to pass them off as real. I just like them cause I wanna play cEDH decks at home but can't afford crazy expensive cards. I guess it's one of those things where you just have to hope people won't try to pass them off as real in tournaments and stuff like that, but some people will always try to get away with that stuff.
Recently switched from yugioh to magic, so i can only talk about my experience in locals, so if they do check the cards in an official tournament they would probably notice.
But as far as locals go, no one would notice especially as you are focused on the game.
So i think fake cards are fairly widespread, most wont even know, but who would even blame thoose who blatantly cheat considering card prices.
Counterfeit Dealers be like: "WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!"
Ask him if he sells more. I'd love to get some. I'll write "fake" on the back I just want proxies that look great.
The small details that are different from each other, probably because they printed it out of a original card with those "differences" already since even the original cards can't keep up consistense with their details. In resume, the fake looks pretty good except for ones business.