Win more commander games... (Beginner) | Deck Driver MTG
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- If you've ever felt stuck, or like you didn't know WHY you aren't winning your EDH games, here's how I went on my own journey to learn the game and get better!
Today I share my story of growth in MTG and how I personally view playing EDH and building decks to suit my playstyle!
Thank you so much for watching!
Moxfield:
www.moxfield.c...
We gotta get these boys off of PowerPoint
I wish it was powerpoint. That might actually make it easier hahah
Need to make Excel spreadsheets for style points!
@@abeybaebe2514 We always return to excel...
Getting my draw pieces has always been a big problem for me, so now I try to have a commander that can do some drawing for me. I find myself building more off combos now than a particular commander.
The pod just trying to have fun…then this guy enters… 😂 just playing. This was a cool video and I’m extremely new to building for commander. So thank you for the advice!
I actually don't care about winning just as long as I can do the things my deck was designed for.
Always stoked to see someone new creating content, WITH a love for cEDH.
It annoys me how there is this divide being created between our casual and competitive community. I love playing at any power level, but have started to embrace higher power more regularly. It literally feels like the casual community is tearing itself apart trying to figure out it's identity. As a person with anxiety, casual games started to become the worst experiences.
Look forward to more of your stuff 🍻
Not popping off first is so much better, I've been playing less than a year and my first couple decks were fast and got scary, but didn't win right away, so they always got stomped before I could finish the game ... More recently I built a deck that is slow and just ramps and then out of nowhere I cast 30 creatures in one turn and just win the game... Being patient and popping off 2nd always wins
my philosophy is grab whatever I own that fits the deck jam them together see what happens and edit from there
Hell yeah!
So many people seem to forget that good decks go through many versions lol, almost any deck can go from janky to extremely powerful if you’re willing to lose a couple of games.
@@yurplethepurple2064 I pretty much play to lose just so I can make an amazing deck and then never play it because I made it too good for my play group and refuse to purposely make them lower power level
man, in 2002 when i just jammed in all the zombies i had :D :D :D
didnt matter if their effect harmed me.
32 land is too low mate. Ramp is not supposed to compensate losing a land drop. It is meant to accelerate your gameplan.
💯%
You play casually, it shows
@@rnd41r the video is for beginners. It's in the title
@@rnd41r 1- The title is targeted at beginners and OP is a beginner himself.
2- Most decks are short on lands with a 32 land count. Missing a land drop is damaging.
3- Missing a land drop is bad even in cedh, despite having tons of rocks/ramp, It just so happen that they can finish UP the game with less drops.
Conclusion: 32 lands is ok only on cedh lvl decks with tons of ramp. Not the subject of this vídeo.
@@murilofreire4569my veyran deck runs 27 lands and runs just fine
I build to explore concepts. My pet deck is an azorius counter deck. Denry Klin is the commander and can go off if allowed to
This is why I always keep my interaction if a player would win a game after spending almost every ressource. I like to grant that player the win then, instead of letting someone hiding in second winning the game. xD
I find it best to have decks built for several purposes.
Some of them are purely a fun playstyle or do something neat that other people will enjoy seeing
Some more competitive but still held back a little bit so people can play their stronger decks and its still fair
At least 1 borderline competitive for those rare groupings when someone either wont interact with others or is just being insufferable
It depends on the cards but it's sometimes is worth having less than eight of a certain card type in your deck for instance board wipes
This Channel is Gold.
Count me in.👍🏻
Insta click. I believe you will grow a lot. Keep up the great videos!
Thank you!
I always build my meren with a lot of creatures, the only two artifacts I use in it are sol ring and birthing pod, for ramps I only use creatures, and it's a pretty fast deck.
Have you tried adding Protean Hulk?
@@majinvegeta6364 it is always in my deck
Strefan was also my first! Any tips on how to improve him? Or do you have a high power deck on moxfield for him?
I found switching the commander to Olivia made the deck much better and hard to keep down.
@@andrewsutherland1909 The new Olivia from Crimson Vow or the old one?
@@neonmadness9498 Crimson Vow. I think she's the alt commander in the precon. I liked her as the commander so much I got the Sisters of the Undead version of the card to use!
@@andrewsutherland1909 She's not the alt, it's some girls with partner, but yeah I already got her since she was in the 50$ upgrade I found so that worked out nicely
I want to win but I also want to have fun - it means no tutors, infinite combos and broken cards... The deck is not super consistent but it's working good and can win with some politics and a good strategy
I agree and have been doing similar deck building and gameplay, sandbagging is great way of politics but you'll have to be honest if you have a better card on your board so they spent removal correctly and gameflow is funnier and won't make people feel so bad while king-making and potentially also learning to evaluate boardstates, even if you don't win that game it feels more rewarding to me.
Appreciate your point of view keep the content going
Could you do a fully optimized Cass Hand of Vengeance deck?
36 lands is crazy
6:10 seems like a situation that could end with a never ending game with 4 player who think like you? No sure tho.
Sandbagging and being the second one to pop off is both a bit scummy hoping for someone to take the fall first (i.e. as the title says more win oriented than fun oriented) but also pretty risky. If I were to pop off first I would throw a lot of my payoff at the player who poses the greatest risk.
Even if the defenses are down it is a lot harder to win from 5 health with most of your support cards removed than from 30 without a whole lot going on on your board.
i've been playing for 15 years, i know all this... there's nothing new to learn here. i guess i'll like and let the video run, keep up the good work.
What does edh stand for?
Elder
Dragon
Highlander
When the format was first developed, the only generals were the Elder Dragons from Legends, and players were already calling singleton tournaments "Highlander" because "There can be only one" of each card in the deck.
Nice video!
Honestly, politics is the most annoying thing in edh. People talking for 10 minutes about who is going to cast swords to plowshare on the first guy to have a board was never fun.
There's playing to win and there's being a good sports about things. Just cast the damn spell.
I play to win by being the table villain, I love playing higher power decks with only 1 instant win combo or state based effect. My group is more casual and it helps the game move along when there is a clear threat to work against.
Ofc being 1v3 isnt super fun for all, But i like it and build my decks around knowing that i will be targeted by 2-3 players at any given time. This makes protection and ramp very important for me.
So yeah im the guy with that will run mana vault/ mana crypt/ jewled lotus / Grim monolith, but its fun for my group.
All the hate tossed at me lets others slower/newer decks and players get to pop off too.
Respect
My entire friend group sandbags their cards. Our edh games are at least 1 hour long and you know what? Its boring 😴 we literally had games where we all build our boards just to have them be wiped just to sandbag some more. Most boring games ever, and we have been making an effort to just play the damn game.
Basic knowledge of any card game
....
What a pointless video
I havent half the stuff in this guide and yet 9/10 games I win with my magda deck.....
My friend does the same with emry
Having only 21 lands
I feel like the sole reason i win games is because i never give up. you can win games you never thought were winnable. Go into a game not expecting to win but just wanting to show off your deck. as long as my deck does the thing im happy.
this is it. Winning hardly matters, especially if you get in a good number of games.
Your deck doing the thing though? Priceless.
@@Pandaman64 I would rather my deck do the thematic thing and lose than win and have no flavor
@@robertmendez8383Absolutely!
I have several old commanders that I just lovingly tweak, but overall keep their theme. They can compete if it lines up nicely, but the deck just causes shenanigans.
@@Pandaman64 I have a Tyrnn and Silvar human tribal deck. it is always fun to see people start panicking when I pull out the Horn of Gondor or Apothecary White and make 30 humans. it has gained a reputation of being a deck to fear, and the best part is that it has no infinites which frustrates our local cedh player to no end ( he plays Thoricle and food chain/squee in casual)
Seeeeeeee when I make a deck to do a thing and I do that thing my friends are pissed at me cause I’m a goblin who likes to crush others in EDH. Considering I made a pure thief deck that steals EVERYTHING or a mono red land destruction or my personal favorite deck I call Big Frog which is Grolnok and I just get to play my entire library is in graveyard by turn 4 and I’ve won the game (worse case scenario is I slowly mill out my opponents and crush their will to live). Though I only play against my friends so I’m not terrorizing anyone else but I certainly sometimes make my friends hate their lives.
its always nice to see someone's design philosophy. good luck with the channel.🙂
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video!
I've started tracking my games this year. I played 51 games so far and won 21.57% of them (which is below average in 4 and 3 player games), but more importantly: I had fun in almost all of them.
Could I crank up the powerlevel of my decks? - Absolutely!
Should I play more focused and less daring sometimes? - Probably.
Would I or my playgroup enjoy the game more, if I did all of the above? - I don't know. Probably not. So I keep things, as they are. :)
Edit: Always consider, by increasing your own win percantage, you decrease someone elses.
Ask yourself, if you are realy below average, because in a 4 player game, you shouldn't win more than 25% of the time (In a 3 Player game it's 33,33%).
The real win is the fun you had and friends you made along the way.
Since I started playing magic I’m pretty good in 1v1 or 3 player kitchen table but every time my buddy and I go to our LGS I have never won a game, I think I’m probably 0/20 at least now 🤦♂️ got close twice last time but the guy we were playing with was likely playing cedh or just high level cause no one could touch him lol
Totally agree. As a guide for cEDH deck building, this video might be somewhat relevant, but for everyone else, it just isn't.
The game is about having FUN. Running 15 removal spells, if everyone does that, means no one gets to play. It's just boring.
I'll lose games on purpose sometimes, and the reason is exceedingly simple: I'm there to have fun with friends, and I want those friends to keep wanting to play with me.
Could I stomp them into the ground, by building oppressive decks they can't win against? Sure I could, but I don't want to.
@mastamizclix42 Look, if people want games that go on for hours until everyone is too exhausted to continue and just crash on the couch, then more power to you, but don't expect every play group and / or player at the LGS to have built their deck with the same goals in mind. In 99% of environments, games have to end. It is both cool and normal to have a means for your deck to win a game of Magic even in a "social format." When did playing casual commander start being about getting mad at other players +75% of the time? We need to normalize being gracious in defeat again. It's just a game. I realize people only get so much time to play, but that's a societal failure. Don't take it out on other players. Their card choices aren't the reason why we live to work instead of working to live or why there is a loneliness epidemic. Flipping out on each other over a game only makes those problems worse. Get a grip
@@majinvegeta6364 I kinda feel like you didn't really get what I was trying to say with my comment?
You talk about games having to end... I agree, which is why everyone running removal is boring, because then no one plays their wincon because the board is reset all the time.
Ultimately, you're playing a social game, with other people. Most of the time, with friends, at least in casual EDH. That means your goal is to have fun and play your strategy, win or lose. If you make your deck to stomp on your friends and tell them to "get a grip" every time you beat them, you won't have many friends left.
@mastamizclix42 your position is toxic on multiple levels.
1. A lack of interaction inherently favors certain deck strategies and archetypes. A soft ban as you propose would, therefore, shrink the format and reduce the diversity of gameplay.
2. A lack of robust removal actually increases the chess problem. Where the board state becomes so clogged and complicated that games end in a stalemate.
3. It also increases the likelihood of a Monopoly problem. Where one or two players get a good starting hand, and the rest never get a chance to meaningfully contribute to the outcome of the game.
4. The entitlement of telling people that they should only build decks the way you want them to because if they disobey, then nobody will be their friend. That's the exact same reasoning that abusers use to keep their victims from leaving. It has no place in a "social format" and is infinitely worse than anybody's card choices.
It's players like you that are the problem with casual commander, not counterspells, boardwipes, or even MLD.
Instructions unclear. I would like to win friends in commander. Winning games is momentary enjoyment. Having people to play with routinely who are good sports and not miserable to be around if games aren’t going their way, priceless and lifelong treasures.
16 of a card? You underestimate my bad luck Sir. I can go multiple entire games and not get one.
I recently had a game where the 2 lands in my opening hand were the same lands I had turn 12. 32 lands in the deck. Deck was shuffled and cut twice (one mulligan), 2 lands in play turn 12. That's all I ever got.
If you truly don't care about winning, Imma let you in on a secret.
youll still have more fun if your deck is built to win, and you play it that way
that doesnt mean optomised or powerful, it means putting a way to end the game in a stax deck, it means attacking when theres an open board. it means not artificially extending games by refusing to finish it.
you can make bad pkays, silly plays, fun plays, but the game will flow better, youll get to play more games, and youll find those games are more enjoyable. the cards will be doing what theyre aimed at, you'll have actual interaction, not just boardwipes. and interaction makes the game more enjoyable, if that wasnt the case youd find the same fun in fishbowling
Long story short... 90% of MTG is just card knowledge.
A larger percentage is applying the knowledge
My brother won't play with me simply because I glance at the art and know the card, where he has to stop and read and reread every card.
Card knowledge is real.
@@kaboomeowthat's fair, I've been playing since 95 off and on in descent lengths of time. Seeing all the new cards after a few years of not playing is overwhelming sometimes. Not to mention new abilities.
@@thehydra3518 fr I have no idea what any of the new praetors do, they have a paragraph of text on the front and then flip over into a saga that has 3 more paragraphs of text lmao. It's just too much for one card.
@@dislikebutton9571 just came back after a few years and I'm the same!! I'm not here to play Yu-Gi-Oh! 😂
What's kind of wild about this list is how simple it is. The Command Zone and TCC did a list few years back, might have even been almost a decade ago, going over how decks should be constructed. Obviously, most of the time on those videos is just to pad out for ad revenue, but they had stuff broken down to subcategories and by the end you had to keep tabs on 8 different parts of the deck. This video makes the process much simpler. Thank you for the insight.
Ah yes, the 8x8 deckbuilding theory. It works, but just barely, and usually not very consistently.
For sure. One thing about the simplified approach though is that it is less specific. Take his "going from 8 to 16 sacrifice cards" example. Is Shriekmaw a sacrifice tag? It does sac itself. Is that the sacrifice card I want, or do I want something that gets a benefit when I sac it (think Myr Retriever)? Should I play 16 Ashnods Altars? They all sacrifice things. A large part of why Command Zone specifically has more categories is because they are breaking that down a bit more.
Ramp, Draw, Interaction, Boardwipes, Enablers, Enhancers, Standalones... They all overlap. Compare to: main theme, ramp, interaction. Does DeckDriver play 0 Draw spells? Obviously not, he must play some. But it's not on his list. So part of it is just that--this video is less a comprehensive deckbuilding template and more like a concise strategy to focus and iterate on your decks, with a vague template that, if you literally rigidly followed, your deck would probably be bad since you have no draw and your "main strat" cards could be all over the place without refining any subcategories (like sac outlets and targets). Both are are useful though! This video is filling a niche we may not see enough of.
8x8 though yeah idk man that shit don't slap
Not sure how categorizing things into Ramp, Card Draw, Single Target, Board wipe, and Land is broken down into subcategories?
I know they go into the whole idea of like Enhancers, Enablers, etc. and then the quadrant theory of assessing how certain cards function depending on if you're building up, behind, at parity, or ahead, but realistically both of those categories only have to do with cutting cards. The only categories you actually need to worry about are Ramp, Draw, Removal, Wipe, Land. The rest of the stuff only has to come into play if you can't decide between two cards and need to cut one. If you're good at knowing which card to cut this section is honestly entirely irrelevant. Perhaps ignoring this section of their video is why my decks are very swingy in their success rates though lmao. Maybe I need to focus more on the Standalone, Enhancer, Enabler portion lmao.
And then I do like the general "your deck needs 30 of the thing. Elfball? around 30 elves." and then they give exceptions for some deck archetypes that might need more or less of that thing like spellslinger, landfall, and planeswalker.
I haven't seen the TCC one, but the Command Zone is no more complicated than this video, the numbers are just different. CZ just goes into detail on ways you can know whether a card should be cut when getting to the stage of cutting cards. The actual deck stats are pretty simple.
@@xxhellspawnedxx I love 8x8 theory as a baseline. Just a great way to take your 200 cards of possibilities and throw them into 8 clusters so you have something you can shuffle and edit from there. Sure you could pick the perfect 8 ramp pieces. Or you could just pick 8 random ones and let testing push you to change them or add more or less.
Card draw wasn't mentioned, but If you want to win in casual. I found that the person who draws the most cards and has the mana to play them would win 90% of the time.
I lose commander games because I play with casual pauper decks and precons then my Pod mates always comes in with a Cedh deck that he wants to "test" out. I need more friend :/
Very good information for 2 years of playing. I believe this advice is probably some of the best I've seen around in a nice solid and concise video. Good job!
When you speak about "How do I want to win", I couldn't agree more. Even if you are a meme, casual player, you need to figure out how to win, how your deck wants to win and how fast.
EDH is a social format, and having fun is important, but a part of you, maybe a little one, wants to have chances to win the game.
To be honest I have diferent types of decks, Decks where I play for the meme and KNOWING that I dont win with it but interacts with the board enough to make it funny and decks made to win in some way.
Sometimes winning isnt everything but make a deck that even if it doesnt win but has a impact on the board
When you realise that having fun is winning is when you and your oponnents always win .
I am planning to build a Gluntch deck where the "strategy" is to help those players who are behind.
I don't plan on winning, I just plan to see someone win.
Oh and maybe build this deck three times, invite someone to the table, buff all thier stuff, and thank them for playing when they absolutely stomps us. LOL
I have a Mogis, God of slaughter deck that is indeed a group slug deck, but has 0 winning conditions, when I play it is with the sole purpose of spreading caos and nothing more, I don't try to win with it.
And the funny thing is, it does indeed have a win 😂
Look, if people want games that go on for hours until everyone is too exhausted to continue and just crash on the couch, then more power to you, but don't expect every play group and / or player at the LGS to have built their deck with the same goals in mind. In 99% of environments, games have to end. It is both cool and normal to have a means for your deck to win a game of Magic even in a "social format." When did playing casual commander start being about getting mad at other players +75% of the time? We need to normalize being gracious in defeat again. It's just a game. I realize people only get so much time to play, but that's a societal failure. Don't take it out on other players. Their card choices aren't the reason why we live to work instead of working to live or why there is a loneliness epidemic. Flipping out on each other over a game only makes those problems worse. Get a grip
Where do draw effects fit into your personal formula?
I'm gonna add that there's a difference between sandbagging and blatantly not trying. Don't blow your load too early BUT also don't run a deck that you actively need to hold back to allow others to play. If you have a big board of trampling chonkers, attack with them. If you voltron incredibly fast, start taking out players instead of "feeling bad" that they didn't get to play OR power down your deck.
People won't feel *too* bad if you hold your wincon in your hand unless they somehow reveal it. People *will* feel bad if you know that you won, they know that you won, and they know that you know that you won, but for some arbitrary reason the game is going on for another hour. This is why I will keep at least one precon together unaltered, sure I might need to try harder to figure out the puzzle when playing with newer players (or lower power decks) but at least then I won't risk making people feel like the game isn't worth continuing.
This guy is the most stereotypical magic player imaginable. Sounds super stuck-up and obnoxious.
This vid was definitely not for me. I don't play to win I play to have fun. Winning is not fun for me. Seeing mine or someone else's deck pop off and do the cool thing is fun.
But anyways, this is definitely for someone just not for me.
P.s. - I don't have to leave a comment, but doing so engages the algorithm for you my friend 😊
Lmao just play the game and have fun. Too many people are too worried about winning all the time and its pretty annoying.
There's only one winner per game, and usually 2-3 losers. So get used to being a loser. Loser.
Been playing for 14 years and im only 22. Losing is fun. Get used to it.
Thank you all for watching! This support in just over a month of uploads has been so amazing!
Can you do a video about the false dichotomy between casual commander and cEDH. Not every deck that wins a game is pubstomping and only should be allowed in cEDH. That's functionally a different format with a totally different meta. There are only about 50 viable decks and half a dozen win cons. Anything else is mid to high power commander. The ambiguous nature of the term "social format" has been co-opted by bad players to excuse poor sportsmanship.
@@majinvegeta6364i don’t think there’s a false dichotomy. It’s just “muh social contract” which means “you can’t do anything i don’t like”. Cedh isn’t a format; it’s a mindset. Of people who actually KNOW how to play the game and have the proper attitude and sportsmanlike conduct about it. None of this whole social format BS
I respect your style, it's not for me, but I'm happy you get enjoyment from your games
I generally dont count win/loss as I see EDH as a social game. This game format was never designed to be competitive. You can get pretty efficient, but the overall structure lacks the consistency of a true card game due to the Singleton rule to be remotely of a competitive nature. Weird folk who have that "dunk on" attitude are the only people who care about win/loss in a game format like EDH. If I start winning too much, or if i noticed i played a deck that is performing far better than others in the pod I downgrade to other decks, of which I guarantee I carry precon level (and arguably lower) so others can actually enjoy the game and... y'know...want to play more.
nah just make a chaos deck with no wincon and make the game go to the 2 hour mark
This is the way
Half the battle is having the proper amount of each card type for your strategy. Don't skimp on resource, ramp and support cards. Pick any support or ramp that has synergy with your strategy instead of using strictly meta. Finally cut the cards that are situationally good, or only good if you're already winning. Every card needs to do something for you even if you're not completely set up for a combo, attack, etc.
A little reminder:
Of course everyone wants to win the Game, because why would you even play?
The difference is how important winning is to you and how you take a loss.
If you can loose a Game and you still had fun playing it, you are doing it right.
But I thought that everyone who beats MY deck is automatically pubstomping :-P
It’s actually crazy how we play the game the EXACT same way down to the deck building in Moxfield and the first precon that we started off with playing. The only difference being I started a year after.
I will say, I dropped the vampire deck within a week of playing the game but returned to it within a month. I can send you the deck list if you want to see it, it wins reliably turn 5-7.
How do I win less? This bothers me.
Yes, winning is cool and all but at this point I kinda feel bad.
I know I'm a good magic player, but after tracking my games, my winrate is too high:
35% in 4-player-games and 45% in 3-player games
(I started tracking in january this year and I'm already at 214 games in total)
I've got a general circle of 20 friends I'm playing with, but somebody always brings a new friend. That means my playgroup don't really get accustomed to my playstyle
Might just help to have a variety of decks on hand. Like I've got most decks I build to a mid-power casual. (High Power Casual would be Casual with Expropriate for instance.) Some of my decks vary around that. And then I have a few precons on me. Sometimes it's just time to back off, dig out the K&T precon and enjoy a game. And it's punchy enough that it can still win some of them too.
What's your philosophy with cards that give you extra draws? I generally dedicate around 10 cards to draw power in my decks because I hate gassing out.
Or you could just not spend north of 500 on one deck of cards and find people and set a price. You can get starter commander decks sold at the LGS for 40 bucks.
"He got to the end of the rainbow and it was cornflakes."
Setting a price for the group is the surest way to play a fair game. And no, you have like 50 to 1 odds in winning sitting down at a highly tuned table with decks over 500 bucks with your precon deck you bought behind the counter.
meanwile im out here like "this card sucks but its funny ok its in the deck"
I'd like to add don't play super aggro commanders, I have an atarka, world render deck where she gives attacking dragons double strike and shes 6 power so shes an auto 2 shot commander and I have cards in there like unleash fury that turn her into a 1 shot for a turn, no matter whenever I pop off, removal is always saved for her.
Want to have more fun? Build around your commander. Want to win more? Build with it. Meaning, if you build around your commander, thats your focus. Thats your engine. Or build like Deck Driver and have cards that can win without your commander around.
Or do both. I have many decks that go off as soon as my commander hits the battlefield and have redundant effects in case I'm locked out by a Drannith Magistrate or something. Saying that players have to choose between them is simply a false dichotomy.
Any time I resolve an Exterminatus is a win for me
Love the video, and the insight on your thought process! I took a look at my decks with this mindset and it's astonishing how much it's changing my decks! I have a question for you though; where do you mark your lands that also interact with things? (ex. Bojuka Bog)
Great video!!!
More people need to know their decks better. It's the chief cause of people who take turns that take way too long. We stared implaming a rule that turns end after 5 mins. There is no reason unless playing with someone new to take that long.
Also, people need to know when to just scoop. If a combo with +10 steps is about to go off and nobody has the means of stopping it, don't be like, "No, you have to play it out." Just shuffle up, switch decks, whatever, and move on to the next one.
you don‘t run specific draw cards? o.O
Lol I don’t know what I expected but this was kind of disappointing. Simply because EDH is the one mode where - for me and luckily for my friends - it‘s not primarily about winning. Always dislike people at the table who only think about how they can win and how they can do it the fastest. Capitalism already promotes enough egoism, in a little fun TCG you should have the possibility to relax and just have fun - as a team. But that‘s just my opinion.
Look, if people want games that go on for hours until everyone is too exhausted to continue and just crash on the couch, then more power to you, but don't expect every play group and / or player at the LGS to have built their deck with the same goals in mind. In 99% of environments, games have to end. It is both cool and normal to have a means for your deck to win a game of Magic even in a "social format." When did playing casual commander start being about getting mad at other players +75% of the time? We need to normalize being gracious in defeat again. It's just a game. I realize people only get so much time to play, but that's a societal failure. Don't take it out on other players. Their card choices aren't the reason why we live to work instead of working to live or why there is a loneliness epidemic. Flipping out on each other over a game only makes those problems worse. Get a grip
@@majinvegeta6364 hahaha jeez I think you’re projecting a lot of your own dissatisfactions that you encountered while playing into my comment. Our rounds range from 1 to 3 hours, we also want to win and defeat, but in a solidary way. So that everyone has fun, has the possibility to maybe show at least a glimpse of what their deck could do. We just don’t want egoists at our table.
Yea as soon as i started going to my lgs weekly ive been getting better. Theres a good mix of casuals and cedh there. Definitely felt like ive gone into the deep end too soon, but i just finished upgrading my sweaty krrik deck, and making my fun mr house deck. Ones to win, ones to gather friends
Seems like you and I are on pretty similar trains of thought.
Winning is important, even in casual and lower power games. I don't enjoy playing with people that don't try to win.
I see a lot of ego flying around in this hobby. I've always enjoyed being underestimated, or letting someone else be the center of attention before swooping in for the win.
I've often found letting other people kill each other with their spite plays and meaningless back-and-forths will usually create the window I need to pull from 2nd to 1st.
We also run very similar numbers for our decks. For me, it's usually 38 lands (some will be mdfcs or cycling), 12 card draw, 12 ramp, and 12 pieces of removal/interaction (including counterspells and counterspell-esque effects). This usually leaves around 25 pieces for the strategy.
Interestingly regarding tutors, I've played for several years, and a couple years into my Commander career I used to hear people say "I've removed tutors from my decks, it's more fun", and I thought they were insane. I would run Vamp Tutor, Demonic Tutor, etc ("they're so strong, why wouldn't you run them?"), and you know what? I've since removed every hard-tutor from my decks too. Tons of playing experience led me to the realisation that certain levels of optimisation don't always achieve the mutual fun play experience desired at (most) casual tables. It's a weird thing, but since tempering my decks and identifying and removing 'scare cards' such as high-value tutors, I win more games and have way more fun, particularly in games with players with good threat assessment. Likely because removing such cards allow me to fly a little more below radar, perhaps in that key second-place you talk about in your video. But, each to their own and their respective pods and playstyles.
This video was super helpful. It's so much more to EDH than just buying the most expensive or popular cards for a deck. I always felt like if I spent over 300-400 dollars on a deck that it had to win and I was always disappointed. Paying attention to the science of deck building is paramount.
I personally use the Command Zone deckbuilding template and it's been great. A few tweaks since even in the few years it's been out the format has had some power creep and obviously you should be building for the tables you play at. It's a nice starter jack of all trades template to then tailor to your personal experience and preference. They treat it not as rules, but as guidelines. Sort of a "well why does my deck stray from the template?" and if you have a reason, great, otherwise it's probably better to stick with the template if your answer is just "oh idk it just does."
10 - 12 Card Draw with Repeatable > One Off, I count tutors as card draw, since essentially it IS card draw you're just stacking the card you draw if you look at it purely from the standpoint of what it actually does vs does it trigger card draw effects. The mechanics of the game don't count it as card draw, but functionally speaking it puts a card in your hand that wasn't there before from your deck, so like functionally that is card draw in my eyes.
10 Ramp with more lands > enchantment ramp > artifact ramp > creature ramp and I do count cost reducers as ramp in certain decks. With the important that land in hand is NOT ramp. Could be considered draw, but not ramp, as it does nothing to put you ahead of curve.
10-12 Single Target Removal/Interaction
3-4 Board Wipes
I deviate a bit and instead of 35-38 my land base is always 33-35 depending on if the curve is closer to 2 CMC or 3 CMC
Then my deck will usually have 30 of the thing I want to do. Elfball? I've got 30 Elves. Enchantress? Well technically I have more than 30 enchants because SO many Enchantments fill the other roles, but all in all 30 enchants are the true core of the deck. Some exceptions for spellslinger, planeswalker, and landfall decks that want more or less of the thing.
Overlap is a big factor as well. Elvish Archdruid is ramp in elfball, Beast Whisperer is card draw, and Rec Sage is single target removal. But they all count as 3 of the 30 elves in the deck on top of fulfilling their roles as the other pillars of the deck.
Enchantress has TONS of overlap, especially in a deck like Sythis, Harvest's Hand. She innately makes all your enchantments card draw and there are so many other "when you cast an enchantment" or enchantment etb based card draw spells that you can skimp on the card draw side because otherwise you'll deck yourself out if you're not careful. There's enchantment based removal, enchantment based ramp, and all in all I hardly run anything BUT enchantments since enchantment creatures exist, outside of a few constellation cards that are just normal creatures. The overlap in Sythis is crazy, you can basically gain life and draw cards with everything but your lands each turn.
I recently made a deck for the new Riku that cares about modal spells and one instant include card was Archdruid's Charm because it fits the modal theme of the deck, but it is also is all three major pillars. Its first effect is a tutor ability that either puts a land onto the BF tapped for ramp and being one land ahead next turn (it's also instant speed so could be used on the end step prior to your turn so the tapped part doesn't matter), or if it's a nonland it goes to your hand functioning as card draw. Then its other two abilities are single target removal / interaction of different flavors. Obviously you only get to choose one of them at a time, but it's still a staple in that deck due to it filling so many roles.
Lastly, I 100% agree with the sentiment of keeping your cards close to the chest. No I'm not going to counter the sol ring or the tutor, I'm going to counter what they play or what they fetch because 9 times out of 10 it's coming anyways and I don't want to have wasted my interaction on something that eventually ends up being a nonissue.
How I win 50% of my commander games I run the Thasas Oracle combo with every tutor if I don’t have one piece of my combo in hand I mulligan I play this every Friday and people know what I’m going to do and I still win every other Friday
They should learn to stop you better then
This guy is trolling. He's probably never won a game in his life just like everyone else who whines about a "social format." Apparently, casual means everyone who doesn't let ME win is a big meanie!!
I consistently win turn 3 just because you can’t win doesn't mean I can’t
Maybe play a couple of games and build a better deck then you can compete with the big dogs best of luck!
You should absolutely avoid following this guy's advice. Aim for a 25% win-rate, or 33% in a 3-man pod, you get it. Anything else and you should downgrade your decks.
If you win more than around 25% of your game you play in the wrong kind of pod
I'd say I average about a 25-33% W/R in my normal play group. We all play higher power stuff and know what does well against each other.
I wouldn't say the wrong pod per say. Of course context matters. If you're playing cEDH and have a highly anti-meta build, you can expect to steal a lot of games because you're playing on a different axis than everyone else
I'm trying to get my friends to play better. But like one person is new. And another has a mix of very interactive and competitive decks for the pods. Or Tribal rats. Pod quality is so all over the place. XD
Oh you are one of those EDH players...nah just joking, im just kinda the person who plays it for fun and not focus winning.
Focusing on winning is fun?
I think it's time we just made it official and banned winning in commander. Winning ruins the game for casual players and should only be allowed at cEDH tables. Also, using tutors, boardwipes, counterspells, wheels, infect, eldrazi, slivers, combos, reserved list cards, or mana rocks that cost less than 3 mana makes you a bad person who should be permanently exiled from all LGS and playgroups.
@@majinvegeta6364 my words.
@@PaulGaither is there a point to your weird flex?
@majinvegeta6364 - I see that you liked your own comment, like a dog cleaning himself.
It isn't "a weird flex," but you clearly don't have the comprehension to get that. Unlike you, I am not some scrub who can't win real games, so you get your rocks off by trying to be the biggest casual at your LGS.
Crazy that I’ve played for 10 years and I haven’t thought to much about sandbagging, I kinda just pop off when I see that I can, this has been a very useful video, thank you
Sandbagging is a bit controversial. Yes, you're more likely to win because most decent players are holding up interaction for "the king", but socially speaking, a lot of people see samdbagging as cowardly, AND it can make the game drag on if everyone is waiting for someone else to pop off first. The length of EDH games is a common complaint, which is why I bring this up.
@@pokemaniac333 A little of column A and Column B. I personally like a lot of draw and threat variety. But it can definitely come down to: I have three creatures out, do I really want to risk a 4th to a board wipe, or do I want to commit another permanent type so I progress, but don't lose everything. And if I'm playing precons I'll sandbag a bit more to keep my options open and try to find the card draw. Since those never have enough for my tastes.
In my opinion, small ball card draw like cantrips and stuff like read the bones are underrated. I find that even if your deck's strat isn't thst powerful on paper, you can grab wins by being the most consistent at doing your thing. As such, while Sign in Blood may not be flashy, getting a few of those effects can definitely stack up to your victory thanks to seeing more of your deck overall.
Not every deck can be built within a certain mold. You found one that works for you, great. You definitely realised a lot of points a lot quicker than I did, interacting with better players is always much quicker than having to reason things out for yourself. However, as a next step I would urge you to now try to find players who have managed to make decks function outside of your preferred mold. This would allow you to add more tools to your toolbox as a deckbuilder.
This is the typical beginner/journey-man thing, start playing something, then feel envy at the winningest players.
Add some stuff recommended and known by everybody, and create a video explaining the same formulaic stuff.
It's boring AF.
go work as an accountant if you like spreadsheets so much, you can do it 40hours a week and get paid, instead of not using your time efficiently playing games.
Our group (which usually plays in pods of 5 or 6) has two house rules. No mass land destruction, no infinite combos. I think the group has more fun overall that way, as it encourages fun builds in casual format.
Consecrate land becomes meaningless with your house rules.
Same with dark steel garrison and crackling emergence
@lessonman_3961 then... dont run those cards? None of those are really all that popular to begin with, and their only benefit is protecting individual lands, so its not like it would be relevant in most decks. Plus, if it *is* relevant to your strategy where you have a single land you *really* need alive, OP's comment didnt say anything about targetted land destruction.
this might be one of my favorite mtg channels on youtube! keep up the great content my friend
It looked like i disliked this video before, and I didn't know why... after watching it again, I realized the guide didn't start at 3:25 like it said in the beginning. It didn't even start at 4:25. It really starts when you start discussing riding the slipstream. Meaning over half of this video has superfluous information that would just confuse new player.
it's sad how few really good "new player" commander options there are. i try to recommend something green to anyone who wants to play but then they're like "i saw this boros deck was good for new players cause TCC said so" and all you can do is face palm knowing they're not going to really have that good of a time. And i also try to convince them to play something that doesn't touch blue cause some players will assume you have "Swan Song, An offer you can't refuse, Misdirection, Force of Will, Force of Negation, and/or Flusterstorm" just because your playing a commander option with blue in it's color identity.
Lol playing for 2 years and calling himself "pretty good"
I play for 20 years, and I still dont call myself good. Get some humility, boy
I VERY quickly learnt "life isn't everything"
in commander, you're playing infect, commander damage, or tokens to beat your opponent FASTER than they beat you
it was a great first lesson and Saint Traft was a great first commander
Would you be open to look
At viewer decks? Bitting my nails off trying to build a sauron, the dark lord nazgul deck 😅
In our club we have a special table where people play only precon decks. And they really have a lot of fun. Most of them have much stronger decks, but they play precons for fun. Because the decks designed by wizards are awesome in terms of having a wholesome game where no one can win on the spot or lock other players from the game.
Especially when its a 4 way game out of the same set of precons. Those are always really good at playing each other
No mention about card draw and u claim yourself a very good player after 2 years of playing? Alright…
Do you count protection spells like Heroic Intervention as part of your 12-16 interaction/removal, or do you count those towards the main strategy cards?
I count them toward the main strategy. I can see the argument for treating them as counters to opponents' removal, but you still need the same amount of interaction to prevent them from racing ahead. I see them as adding a level of resilience to my win cons.
depends honestly. I count them as interaction and don't generally count them toward strategy cards. usually I count them as "tech cards" cards that don't necessarily fit in to the "theme" of the deck but are useful none the less. as an example my Abdel Adrian deck runs a Windshaper Planetar and a Reflector mage. neither necessarily get me closer to the victory however they both have a useful ability that the deck can abuse and have very powerful abilities that either protect me or stall the enemy. they sit squarely in my "tech" section. but there are a wide degree of deck building strategies out there.
Sometimes I forget just how much of a veteran I am till someone says they started playing two years ago I started playing in 94 😂
I agree with the advice except for the pop off part. I love being the first to “awaken” my strat and turn the game into a soft 3v1
very very good insights! made me rethink some decklists I'm using.
congrats for the vid 👏
We pretty much share the same philosophy, no wonder i like your decks so much. Copied your tatyova budget list and ive destroyed my lgs , keep up the good work!
Hi, ive been looking at that list too, It seems great but at the first glance i cant find many win-con in the deck, maybe its my fault and i missed something. How did feel playing at your LGS?
@@Lanto90 excelent, everyone ignores you cz you only have tatyova on the field most of the time. Then you explode with all the lands youve ramped
Ive been playing since 98 and im still not that good, but I like your strategy
Cutting good cards can be hard but you really do have to ask yourself whether they push your strategy.
I like the philosophy of your commander supporting your game plan rather than being it. Though I will say one of my most focused decks (that weirdly isn’t that expensive) is my light paws deck, all in enchantment voltrons. Just hang back with some soft stacks in the early mid game to discourage them from attacking you (think ghostly prison) and then once you have a good set of enchants to throw on your light paws pull her out and try to take someone out, plenty of protection enchants to give you evasion to get in an OTKO on someone as well as protect you from targeted removal.
Really fun mono colored commander focused deck. 😊
Le me always play historic, not standard, not alchemy, it's a lot of fun.
Removal...? Nah all gas no breaks baby. The best removal is player removal.
I feel the commander as a complimentary piece thing so much!
Lier, Disciple of the Drowned is my highest win rate deck and I basically only play him to enable a win or get more juice; the rest of the list is a hyper focused unblockable or evasive Rogue tribal combined with a ton of cantrips, protections and loot effects aiming to get to a point where I can either copy / reoccur Notorious Throng to go wide and/or finish the table with a Candlekeep Inspiration. It’s the only extra turn deck I’ve ever liked because it ends games on those turns too quick to really waste everyone’s time.
The theme and synergy makes good sense. Along with an awareness on the number of cards. It does however put a limit to how much specific support stuff you can put in the deck.
Try Flesh and Blood. At least have a look on this TCG 😉👌
Bit too spikey for my taste, but I don't begrudge it.
I mean, that's what i'd expect, given the title
I am in fact a spike. I am a competitive person!
This is how you learn the game that's not spikey.
*watches video on how to win more games* hmmmm too, Spikey 😂
By the level of spikeness showed in the video, we figure out how much a beginner this person in.