A brief history of the Dalek-Cyberman War
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- The war between the Daleks and the Cybermen was a pivotal event in the Tenth Doctor's life, as it not only separated him from his first companion, Rose, but it also saw two of his greatest enemies battle it out, with humanity caught in the crossfire.
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No, I do not think the 4 Daleks from the cult could have defeated the 5 million cybermen without the Genesis Ark. I think that it would take just 1 Dalek.
They didn't even come to beating the daleks
And besides the 5 million cyberman are spread around the world
"I'll do it!"
"I was being figurative"
What's interesting is that the void ship broke down the barriers between worlds, which allowed the Cybermen through, but the sheer mass of 5 million Cybermen crossing at once is what caused the void ship to open, so they were always going to meet.
I do like how the Battles in Time magazine showed some of the conflicts between the Genesis Ark Daleks and the Cybermen, and thus showing some Cyber-victories.
One victory in Scotland has the Cybermen rip a Dalek dome off, and another sort of victory has some accidental friendly fire between Daleks.
Wish the TV series would do another war but make it more equal.
@@therealdalekbumps9699 the video was very real, dear
Where can I find this magazine
@@fanaticfilms you MAY, I repeat, MAY find a copy on Ebay. It was over ten years ago they were released.
@@matthewcollins7358 thanks very much, I appreciate it
4:28 I’ve always felt vaguely cheated that they heavily simplified the Dalek gun effect for these shots so they wouldn’t have to commit to showing what’s inside a Cyberman suit.
I don't see it as an issue personally, if you did an actual x-ray effect I imagine the cyber suit would appear anyway. If anything, the blast should conduct to the whole suit, but I don't think not showing the inside is a "cheat"
is it possible that the Cybermen from Pete's world had changed their cyber conversion process from transplanting brains to converting whole bodies after the events in age of steel?
@@eliotreader8220 they did actually do that, but only after they started fighting the Daleks - it was an emergency measure to make as many new Cybermen as quickly as possible. One such Cyberman appears in the Torchwood episode _Cyberwoman_ (and looks terrible, let’s all pretend that she actually looked like a mutilated human instead of fetish art).
@@eliotreader8220 they did during Canary Wharf, they needed numbers so sped up the conversions as per Torchwood
@@Glace-gone From my understanding it would just look like a human nervous system, as that’s the only flesh that’s typically left inside of a Lumic Cyberman, to my knowledge. Well, that and the brain, obviously.
"You are wearing flares! You cannot conquer the world with disco fever!'
"Says the dustbin covered in disco balls"
This is not war this is cyberbullying
@@NoName-hg6ccTHEY ARE NOT DISCO BALLS! EXTERMINAATE!
As a Cyberman fan, thanks for pointing out that these were primitive Cybermen lol
It is definitely worth pointing out, especially since these are perhaps the weakest form of Cybermen we have seen so far (except perhaps the original Mondasian variety, but that's not really a fair comparison)
At the end of the day it's clear that Russell T. Davies was playing favourites here, if the battle had been between the Daleks and the '80s era Cybermen, it would have probably been a more balanced engagement
@@dalekbumpsthat’s ignoring how the Daleks have increased in power. I had the impression that Time war Daleks were (theoretically) much stronger than Daleks from old who seasons.
The cybermen from the Moffat era would definitely wipe the floor with the daleks
@@captainmacmellon8909 because they’re playground levels of OP. At least RTD Daleks didn’t literally say ‘I am immune to bullets now’ after being shot.
@@theylivewesleep.5139they never had to because they already were immune.
They were already upgraded to that point when we see them in Dalek.
So by your logic the Cybermen are better since we actually see them upgrade to that point.
Plus the Cybermen are thousands of years in humanity’s future at the point where they’re OP.
No one actually won the Cyber-Dalek battle of Canary Wharf except for The Doctor but even he lost in a way by losing Rose.
I would love to see RTD continue the battle in his new era of RTD2, if there are any spin offs then this would be a perfect opportunity
If Star Wars can have The Clone Wars then Doctor Who can have The Cyber-Dalek Wars.
I have a feeling RTD reads all the comments from different Doctor who videos and he takes notes, I hope he is taking notes right now.
So it's another parallel to the Time War
My wife Grandfather invented the Cyber Men...............Kip peddler
Honestly be cool to see them match off with their new upgrades after a while
Yeah similar to The Clone Wars, the Cyber-Dalek War was nothing but a losing battle for both sides, & for 10th when he lost Rose.
Here's an even briefer history;
. Cybermen conquer Earth.
. Daleks curb-stomp Cybermen.
. The Doctor curb-stomps both.
You're welcome.
Don’t forget the doctor inviting a cyberman to run away because he CBA to fight.
Sec was right that one Dalek could have destroyed all the Cybermen.
It so cool that the two best monsters fought and it has the best line in the entire series "you are better it dieing" 😎
I love the moment when they first meet in that corridor, both species sizing each other up, and just how outmatched the Cybermen are against the Cult of Skaro. What always gets me is when those two Cybermen fall, the shot showing them hit the ground doesn't match the surroundings, it shows a Dalek right there, but Thay was at the other end of the corridor, it felt like they forgot to film a shot of them hitting the ground and inserted something else. When the Cult storms the hangar, they go in shooting at all targets, but I feel they waste time by shouting exterminate as they do, they needed to adjust their rate of fire and prioritize the biggest threats first (the Preachers with the upgraded weapons, then the Cybermen, then the Torchwood soldiers). Had this battle been allowed to unfold without Time Lord interference, I feel the Daleks would have stomped the 5 million Cybermen in less than a week. I also wished more of the Daleks remembered to use their Emergency Temporal Shift (unless this feature was exclusive to the elite Daleks of the Cult of Skaro, not sure if any others than them have ever used it).
I’d assume it was unique to the cult. If every Dalek could shift like that then time wouldn’t stand a chance.
I definitely think the nightmare is silver cybermen would have definitely beaten the daleks here. Honestly hearing a dalek acting confused and screaming the typical dalek bravado at a third cyberman being immune to his gun after saying "upgrade in progress" and start approaching the dalek before cutting off as it screams with the sound of metal being ripped apart would be a haunting scene to see
Yeah, because nightmare in silver cybermen are like children’s toys. “Ummmm, we’ll actually I’m immune to guns now because of my anti gun shield”. So goofy.
@@theylivewesleep.5139 honestly they felt like the TNG Borg on crack
@@shadewolf0075 yeah. There’s also no good reason for it. At least the Daleks had to build their way up to their time war power level, these guys literally just decide they’re strong enough without having to actually be physically upgraded. Genuinely wonder if Moffat was one of those people who believed that his IPhone could receive a software upgrade to become waterproof.
@@theylivewesleep.5139 granted those cybermen where from like thousands of years into the future where humanity became powerful enough to make weapons that can destroy galaxies
@@shadewolf0075 true, but I think they could’ve done it more creatively than ‘I am now immune’. Ruins the menace. What would’ve been cool is if they brought back the cyber jumpsuits and explained that as being a flexible metal mesh that hardens on impact, making cybermen more dexterous.
Dalek be like: You have only one superiority
Cyberman: What is that?
Dalek: You are better at dying.
“It’s like if Steven Hawkins meets a talking clock”
This wasn't the first Dalek/Cyberman war - the earlier Daleks seem to have had skirmishes with the Neomorph variant of Cybermen, in a fight that was a lot more equally matched.
What media showcased the meetings before this?
@@famalam943 there was a text story called Heliotope Bouquet in DWM
Can you possibly make a video about the original plans for The Wheel in Space? The original plans were to have a Dalek and Cyberman battle off. I don’t know many of the details.
I'd heard about the plans for a Dalek-Cybermen encounter in 60s Who ages ago but completely forgot, thanks for reminding me - I'll look into it!
@@dalekbumps the idea was mooted to have Daleks and Cybermen in one story but Terry Nation apparently vetoed the idea
Ayo what
I remember watching Cyber woman with my brother all those years ago. what I liked about the design at that time was the fact that Lisa's face was visible inside the Head piece. I also learned what cyber conversion was too as I didn't completely understand what that was before hand
I think the Daleks would inevitably have won, they and the Sontarans are on a whole new level and have waged war against the time lords.
Wish they could have explored dalek-cybermen conflict in classic who
One thing i loved about this two parter episode which is completely random is that the anti dalek weapons originally coming from the preachers soon became the default cyber gun for most of new who. Wish they used it more in a similar way to doomsday in more cybermen episodes.
A nice video that explains one of the greatest Doctor Who stories ever told.
My headcanon is that the Cybusmen created a rank of Cyberleader with enhanced intelligence like a Cyber controller called a senior Cyberleader (seen on screen in "Revenge of the Cybermen", "The Next Doctor", and "A Good Man Goes to War") during the Dalek-Cybus War while inside the Void to lead the Cyber army against the militarily-superior Daleks.
The cyber men seen in "revenge of the cyber men" and "a good man goes to war" are native to N space (the main doctor who universe). The cyber men from "the next doctor" are in fact from Pete's world as they possess the cybus industries logo on their chest. In addition, "the next doctor" identifies a cyberman with a black faceplate, handlebars, and exposed brain as a "Cyber Lord" which is basically the rank that you described.
@@NotARobot-sc3itYes, I meant just the rank of senior Cyberleader, AKA Cyberlord, which evolved separately through parallel evolution.
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if a Kaled was converted
I always thought the Cybermen should have just tried ripping the Daleks heads off
Hey, if spamming lasers doesn't work might as well give brute force a shot
And even if the Dalek casing reacted like what's described in Series 1 (guy who touched the Metaltron without gloves burst into flames) the Cybermen are made of *steel*
Apparently some of the Cybermen were able to do just that, albiet to limited success. The one instance that we know of (according to the "Battles of Time" trading card game) showed that the Dalek in question was lured into a confined area, allowing several Cybermen to get close enough to use brute force to rip the Dalek apart. Though it was said that this trick was successfully done a few times before any ambushing Cyberman would usually get cornered by Dalek reinforcements.
Alas, the Time War era Daleks with their flight capabilities would make direct ground to ground engagements needless when they can simply exterminate everything from above.
Some people incorrectly call this "The battle of Canary Whalf". It`s true designation is "The massacre of Canary Whalf"
The Pest Control of Canary Wharf.
The Bitch Fight of Canary Wharf (Look it up 😉)
One odd misconception I always noticed being spread by this episode is that the name of the building Torchwood was based in is One Canada Square. Canary Wharf is the name of the area surrounding it.
If I'm right, the Cult of Skaro had extra abilities to the normal Dalek casing. This is because a consentrated energy blast from the Preachers' Energy Blasters had been shown to blow up/ malfunction a Dalek after in Journey's End. Also, Dalek weapons in Evolution of the Daleks fail to destroy Jast and Thay straight away, but Rusty in Into the Dalek managed to destroy the invading Daleks of the Aristotle with his Dalek weapons.
My one last point is that The Cult of Skaro took multiple hits from the Energy Blasters, Cyberman Wrist Blasters, and bullets. What I'm indicating is the the Energy Blasters would've impaired their casings, Cyberman Wrist Blasters would've effected them too, and normal bullets would theoretically get through the shields if the casing is impaired, AND they took MULTIPLE HITS! It shows you that Dalek Sec's line, "We would destroy the Cybermen with *one* Dalek", is absolutely true, and that these Daleks were like extra O.P.!
As I understand it, the parallel guns from The Stolen Earth are not the same guns seen in Doomsday, The props are different and they fire different blasts. It's more likely that the guns from Series 4 are heavily upgraded versions of the ones from Series 2
I'm also assuming the Dalek tommyguns are weaker than regular Dalek guns which is why it takes so long to destroy Thay and Jast in Series 3
Either way, I have no doubt that the Daleks of the Cult of Skaro have upgraded abilities compared to the standard Dalek, it makes sense considering they were the final hope for the Dalek race after the Time War
Good points, I agree with that but like you said, these Daleks were the Daleks' final hope. Aside from that can I just say that your videos are amazing and I find myself binge watching Dalek lore videos from your channel, especially this video as you explain it so well!
Great video
I absolutely think more advanced Cybermen could stand a far better chance against the daleks ^^
The ones from Nightmare in Silver possibly could. Especially with their Super Speed.
basically a no brainer, theyd be on par with daleks, anything on par with daleks could potentially destroy the daleks
Where is that artwork from on 6:11 ? Looks awesome
"Which side would have won"? Bruh, is this sarcasm? or you got see how the Cyberman weapons, even after upgrade, manages to do nothing effective to the Dalek? They are too OP.
Nightmare in Silver cybermen would've fucked the daleks up. Maybe a couple hundred cybermen would die (or maybe just a couple), but eventually theyd adapt to the daleks. Also, they maybe could use cybermites to upgrade the daleks into cyberdaleks, but we've seen that the daleks have "antibody" drone so maybe that wouldn't work...
Has anyone notice the cyberman that fell off the balcony 😂😂😂
I never really understand why unit never found out about torchwood and i do wonder if they integrated tech and surviving personal into unit except jacks group
I think UNIT knew about Torchwood but weren't able to do anything about it. UNIT is an international organisation, originally a branch of the UN, whereas Torchwood was an institution set up by the British government. It's similar to how in the UNIT audios they mention knowing about Van Statten's vault but they can't do anything to stop him as he was a private businessman under the protection of the US government
I love the cybus cybermen but they couldnt penetrate the daleks shells. I dont think we even see one
Wonder what happened to the void ship then
I think Doomsday would have worked better if the Daleks and Cybermen didn’t have such a massive gap in power. The Daleks should have numbered around 10 or so, with the Cybermen gradually wearing their numbers down each battle until Dalek Sec narrowly escaped the Torchwood building with the Genesis Arc. The Daleks would still come off as the more powerful species, but the Cybermen aren’t completely humiliated.
@@reeda.2341 I agree. As cathartic as it is as a Dalek fan to see them utterly sweep all opposition aside, I think the next time the Daleks and Cybermen fight on-screen it should be more of an even fight. The Daleks should still be the more powerful of the two factions, but hopefully it won't be as one-sided as the fight from Doomsday, as the Cybermen have upgraded themselves a lot since then
How did the pair continue fighting in the Void? Wouldn’t it be a slaughter for the Cybermen?
Like how did any of them survive the Daleks?
I agree with Sec that 1 Dalek would win vs 4 million
One thing I've picked up on is the Daleks and (prime universe) Cybermen must have had an encounter with each other at some point in their past, leading to a temporary alliance that obviously must have gone terribly wrong for the Daleks, properly due to both races trying to backstab each over leading to a major disaster, hence why the Daleks (on top of their xenophobic sense of superiority) flat-out refused any alliance with the (Cybus) Cybermen when they suggest an alliance, the Daleks have historically had temporarily 'allied' with other races before to use and eventually turning on them... I also have a theory that the Daleks somehow acquired Cybermen technology at one point in time and modified it to create their Roboman slaves. This could also tie into the idea the (classic) Daleks and (classic) Cybermen had perhaps met (off-screen). I wonder, if true, would this make for a good (classic) Doctor Who story? Perhaps one done as an animated serial or episode?
My problem with this was as soon as the daleks appeared the cybermen became cannon fodder and started a trend in new who that the cybermen take a step back as the main villain to someone else in their own stories and finales.
Also this isn't a true match up as the cybermen of main universe would inflict damage to the daleks. The cybus cybermen are far more primitive compared to the cybermen of our universe.
Agreed on both counts, the Cybermen deserve to reclaim their agency, it's strange to think that there hasn't been a single New Who Cyberman story where the Cybermen stood on their own two feet
In Rise of the Cybermen / Age of Steel, they were controlled by Lumic
In Army of Ghosts / Doomsday, they get squashed by the Daleks
In The Next Doctor, they're working with Miss Hartigan
In Pandorica Opens, they're working with the Alliance
In Closing Time, they're killed by a baby, and have to share screentime with James Corden
In Nightmare in Silver, they defer to Mr. Clever
In Dark Water / Death in Heaven, as well as WEAT / The Doctor Falls, they're controlled by Missy / The Master
And every Chibnall-era Cyberman story has them being either upstaged by or controlled by the Master
Personally I'd love to see a matchup between the Daleks and Classic Cybermen, that would be an interesting fight. But I have no doubt that the Cyberiad Cybermen or the Cybermasters would stand a much better chance against the Daleks than the Cybus Cybermen did
I'm sorry, the question is not much off topic, but how did the Cybermen want to take over the world with only 5 million units with them? This is catastrophically small when compared with the number of people in the army of the world
they are cybermen, there were 5 million at that moment, they will continue to upgrade people as they go
@@voltran7677 the rate of creation of new units is too low, and what I'm talking about, through diplomacy, the Cybermen would have achieved more. Residents of poor countries, and just volunteers would have agreed to upgrade. The Cybermen would simply have to wait before the humans, seeing the potential, agreed to join, and not even the Doctor could stop them.
@@Salavat550 Head canon is that there were 5 million in London and far more across the world...though, probably not what they meant.
the daleks do say that the cybermen are an inferior race, and plus the cybus industries cybermen were made on earth in their universe, and so were even more primitive and inferior to the prime universe cybermen, so I would say that the daleks would have won, however we also know that concentrated fire on a dalek does overload it's shields eventually.
however if the daleks and cybermen were to have another war, the cybermen may have upgraded their armor to be more resistant to dalek weapons and may have found a way to upgrade their weapons to bypass dalek shields, however I do still feel like the daleks are still more powerful and could win again.
That's not war, just pest control.
The Cybermen would have stood a much better chance against TV21/Dalek Book1964 level Daleks.
Didn't the Canary War went on in the void?
Not really since no one survives the Void unless you have something like the void ship
But there were likely some small skirmishes before they all eventually died out which explains how the Cybusmen in the next Doctor got ahold of Dalek tech, likely stolen from within the genesis ark
It was not war. It was pest control.
Did a 'sort off' audio sequel to this episode ruclips.net/video/-cDdqgU-ecw/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/TXhk9eZm3JY/видео.html interesting video btw.
If the war continued, a draw would eventually happen. Dunno.
-12/29/2022 @ 0724-
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