Every aspiring (Twitch) streamer should watch this. If someone thinks "It's not worth" watching a sub 20 min video but "It is worth" streaming for 4-8 hours a day to "grow" on stream, they really need to learn how all of this looks like.
Devin youve been sitting at the “cool kids” lunch table the whole time lol. You’ve talked to practically every big streamer multiple times on trains podcast and even have some of them as your clients.
I'm just going to tell you... I have a channel dedicated to indie game development and voxel art. In 5-6 months of twitch I gained like 270 followers and an average of 5 to 6 people in my streams, most of those come from raids sent by friends of mine, but they are not very sticky followers. Besides that, I got 0 to 2 followers per stream and 0 followers if I wasn't live. A few months ago I discovered your channel and followed the advice: if you want to grow on twitch, grow on youtube and send your audience there. Thanks to the power of SEO and the "algorithm" in 3 months of youtube I now have about the same amount of followers (around 320) on both platforms AND I get followed on twitch on a daily basis when I'm not even streaming anymore, I SOMETIMES do a weekly livestream on twitch and I have 10 to 15 people. Also, I see a consistent growth on my youtube channel, day by day. So, thank you, your advice is solid.
I was just catching up with devin's content and saw your comment. Man do yt shorts, IG stories and tiktok. Do timelapses or how to do x in 3 steps, these things can go REALLY viral. Just put twitch logo and your name somewhere, boom viral content contender ;)
Small and medium twitch streamers can create content on other platforms to bring viewers to twitch. Those viewers will eventually end up watching the kingmakers
This is very true! Instead of streaming 8h per day, it's better for discoverability to stream 2 or 3 and spend the rest of the time growing on other platforms.
what you're mentioning here applies to the apex niche and it's super fun to have my previous suspicions confirmed, all big streamers are collabing, doing "shows" by playing ranked and growing with subpar content when quality-focused creators are struggling, and the ones who make it through get endlessly harrassed for "not playing ranked", or "being good enough" aka "playing with the big names" not necessarily talking about me, but I see it over and over again with movement focused streamers in particular
@Mindless Dante Literally the exact opposite. You have to make high quality niche content, develop a base, then you can just regurgitate garbage for views.
Don’t worry about the “shows”, don’t worry about that audience. Bunch of drama queens. There are people doing the same thing on you tube. We are just quietly enjoying it. Rather than coming together. We could learn a bit from twitch, but I like RUclips. @ottr @devinnash… been watching both of you on and off for 2/3 years. Just smarter circles here😂🤷♂️👌🤞
I stopped watching twitch cause of the drama. Now watch Nick again here and there now he’s playing apex and on you tube. I still like watching combos of people playing. Soofar and itemp current favs by some miles
The one thing I've noticed is how many content creators are basically jumping on the coattails of bigger content creators by doing the "Joe Blow reacts to King Shit's take on Video Game Controversy X" type streams and videos. It feels so much like Mean Girls in how all the people who can't get into the Plastics talk about the Plastics, because they also want some attention, so they talk about what people want to hear about.
Its extremely interesting how the ecosystem of twitch works. I really love your videos because the time put in and the endless information you provide. You get people thinking and see different perspectives.
It’s odd that Twitch don’t prioritise bringing new people in through advertisement. I feel like once people are in the loop, they rarely leave but I’ve not seen any ways of bringing them in compared to the lengths that other media companies go to. It’s not a surprise that there’s so much overlap between bigger streams, the ecosystem is so closed off that there’s nowhere else for people to go. And the ‘King-maker’ setup just adds to it.
That's because so many big streamers have big channels on RUclips and other social media and it just brings them to Twitch naturally, I've seen some twitch ads before but they're usually on the app store more than on RUclips
Based on my daughter, I'll add that a lot of users will be teenagers with a TON of time, they are very dedicated, and they are are connected to know when the next stream is on other platforms like Twitter and Instagram. I'll also add the streamers she's discovered aren't often discovered on Twitch - I believe tic tok has had a lot of benefit right now.
This is very true for the Minecraft community as well! There's definitely the "cool kids" who control who else is cool or not through SMP invites and other collaborations. Such an interesting thing to think about, great video!
Thanks for your videos Nash. In 2018, I had more viewers than in 2020. Twitch suddenly changed and got crappier for small streamers and so being a casual streamers makes it harder. I feel like, streamers have to be in the circle of Twitch Partners for them to keep pace and it feels like to me and others that there's an exclusivity pool on the platform. If you're not in the circle, you're out. However, some streamers do not want to **be** in the circle and caught up in the seemingly reality TV show drama where Twitch seems to be heading. RUclips does way better and they keep getting better.
So true. And you can see it in how Mizkif made Emiru grow so fast. Mizkif is right, Twitch is like high school, with the cool kids gatekeeping popularity and growth on the platform.
It's like saying once you start watching GTA RP it's easy to just hop around in that area because it is like watching a live tv show with all these people being actors.
Yeah this is very true. If you watch reaction youtubers reacting to top twitch clips they always end up confused and dont get it since the top producers of twitch clips are all part of this clique and most of the comedy stems from inside jokes.
I know I rarely use twitch since when I do go, I usually just check my followers to see if any of the small streamers I like are online and then I leave if they arent. The big streamer experience isnt something I care about too much, so I rarely watch twitch. Whereas here, I can watch the clips from the good bits which I missed from the few big creators I like. And I am just here all the time already due to the videos.
I wonder how many times is Devin gonna beat us over the head about how ANY OTHER platform is going to be a better way to grow as a cc. Thank you Devin! It really does help the people like me that don’t learn lmao
Loved the Video. Been streaming on Twitch for a few years. Did the partner grind with a game called "They Are Billions." Just cycled viewers that has a niche community within the twitch community. Hate how drama driven twitch has turned. Keep the good stuff comin Devin!
Great stuff man! Really this sort of data is the reason I have been transitioning my streams and content to youtube. While it lacks some of the engagement, especially when my channel isn't monetized yet, it still feels less gross overall. I love the community I built on twitch, but the best of them came from elsewhere anyway.
Interesting analysis. I sort of see twitch as this sort of strange place where the only people who watch it are the people who watch it, which sort of doesn't make sense but it does. It has a very comfortable feel to it because so many people have a shared experience and probably feel like they're in an exclusive club that only they get access to, and that's pretty much true. I really do think in the end of the day, there's no single platform that will be able to change people's human nature, which is a basic need to be involved with a community, and twitch feels that way specifically because of that niche. That being said, I feel like they're on their way out, especially if they don't implement features similar to youtube's, particularly ignoring the potential of creating a streamlined and algorithm based clip viewing page. I should be able to just click "shuffle" and watch EVERY SINGLE CLIP randomly supplied to me by whatever filters I put in, most likely involving the tag system and by category, streamers, or even whether certain communities have overlap. There's just so much potential being ignored.
What you just described is " The Mean Girls " theory ( I made this up). Unless you are at the table with Regina George you are deemed uncool. Everyone basically knows this , if you pay attention, if not , it was just broken down for you by the one and only Devin Nash.
Wanted to swing by and say thanks. First came across you a couple of months ago and you were the first person I saw truly talk about how this journey can affect mental health. I was streaming for a while to 1 and sometimes 0 viewers. Did 225 hours on Twitch so far since April, with 15 hours on RUclips added on to that. The ROI was just not there from Twitch at all. Before I started streaming I purchased the Adobe CC to help with my content creation and realized I wasn’t getting better at the programs. Your video suggesting we do other things was very helpful. I want to be more than a streamer, but it seems like I was on an endless grind that left me filling empty. Since the beginning of December I decided to stop streaming and focus on creating content and getting better at that. That has given me flexibility to learn more and get better at different things. I feel more free. Also I get to see growth days and sometimes weeks after I uploaded something. My mental health is also better now. Hopefully more people come across the information that there are other pathways to growth. I think a lot of people are caught in the streaming grind when they truly want to be more
Damn that is really incredible that the *AVERAGE* viewer spends 70 minutes watching per stream. I honestly can't think of the last time I spent anywhere near that amount of time in a stream. Even when I used to stream to a few hundred people I never spent that kind of time watching other people. Maybe I just don't get it and I'm doomed to be a 100-500 viewer "Andy."
i think its different for streamers, most streamers would rather stream themselves, rather than watch other streams. me personally, i've watched 70+ minutes of your streams before. during covid time, for example, i would have your stream up for hours watching you play crowfall while i was working from home. thats why these stats are so nice because it takes us away from our personal perspective and shows us the facts
I have tons of streams up while I work and use it as background noise for the most part. The 70 min thing, while by the data is correct, is a little skewed for that reason.
@@jrhollywood Makes sense. It's a lot easier to rack up watch time with Twitch compared to RUclips. It's the equivalent to having the TV on in the living room while you're making dinner.
I don't watch the OTK drama gods, but a lot of the smaller streamers I watch i saw on another medium sized streamer first. I don't think i've ever discovered a streamer through twitch directly (not counting colabs). This is compounded in off stream advertising too. If you're in the inner circle of one of these large drama groups, not only do you have colabs, but you have reddit too. LSF, as much as streamers pretend to hate it is all a view machine for OTK and some of the other personality streamers.
isn't the viewer to streamer ratio skewed by the fact that the vast majority of streams going live on any given day aren't being watched at all by anyone?
Very insightful! I definitely caught on to the discoverability issue at one point, and so wish I figured it out earlier! Unfortunate King-based system, but it's good to be aware! 👍
This is the saddest thing, and half the time the "content" being used was hard work someone else put it. I love the viewers who appreciate genuine creators or creators who actually try to connect with the viewer and offer something more than just a cringy moment or clickbait. I love content creation for the sheer fact I can connect with and meet people who like the same games or anime or comics and we can nerd out and have a great time! Forming that community and being able to brighten a day or two is what makes it worth while to me at least. Seeing these stats is eye opening and just shows that you need to diversify content because Twitch is not the end all be all.
Even tho I have your notifications on, I check your channel every morning to see if something new is posted. Anyone serious about growth, small, medium or large following, can learn alot from this mans content. For anyone going through the comments and just wondering if the vids are worth it, they are. If you seek to learn something, you will learn something. Keep the grind up everyone and Happy Holidays.
Same people are watching the same content for hours every day. I've seen this trend for a long time now. Thought it was common knowledge. Every time you got to LSF to see what's trending at Twitch it's just the same few streamers highlighted by the same users doing the same meta on a daily basis. How can you have any growth other than cannibalism in this kind of environment?
This video was a really interesting watch. I can always find other streamers and creators who will follow and stop in the stream, but once they give up because they haven't "made it" in 3 months, they don't watch anymore. I have never been able to find the "Viewer" that only watches. But I'm a boring "just plays video games" guy.
You can see this with GTA no pixel most of the people watching are shared veiwers from both XQC and Summit, both have helped smaller streamers make a name for themselves through them. You can see the viwership grow and drop depending on wether or not the bigger is logged in or not.
I love and hate twitch community so much because it really is like high school in a sense in order to go further you have to collab since discoverability is so hard and the drama can be overwehlmingly toxic and harmful some streamers have to deal with wacko stalkers/ parasocial frogs ! On the bright side the communities fostered can definitely be a very welcoming and just all around very easy to become apart of !!
Ive made this suggestion on twitchs suggestion page but a twitch shorts/twitchtok etc feed for people to upload their content that would also have an icon displayin live now to drive more people into new streams
I’ve always found it so fascinating how these top dogs have so many people just watching them. Their chat is a walk of spam. You can’t really interact with the broadcaster. They aren’t that different from someone who has way less viewership, and yet there’s 10-100k watching.
Yeah I wish I knew earlier I spend 70 hours a week streaming for a year and a half and got absolutely no where, I learned a lot and it made me push myself to be very interactive and creative but unfortunately as you mentioned it’s very slow, and now I’m back at work since Covid is over so I get to stream once a week sometimes and all I’m focused on is RUclips instead but overall this is very useful info and I wish I’d put the same amount of hours and energy in RUclips when I had all this time I would of had a 20 times bigger community and growth by now.
12:39 D; how dare you make fun of me! Jk… great video as usual and thanks for the info. Guess I can’t grow as 1 viewer Andy playing apex legends. Apparently people don’t take 5 minutes to scroll down the category to find me? Unfortunate.
statistically speaking, since each user has a finite amount of time spent watching twitch, and the number of small to medium size streamers are much larger than the top kingmakers, it's obvious that the viewers wouldn't be able to spread their view time across such a larger base of streamers, and therefore would be much less likely to overlap. this just seems like a natural occurrance rather than anything caused by twitch itself. small pocket communities form in these lower tiers and within those pockets of streamers, there is plenty of overlap. they just don't spread far beyond those pockets.
Not really surprised at this. Twitch's emphasis on Live is so huge that people are conditioned to only care about their streamers when they're live, so it ends up like TV without DVRs or VCRs. You'll probably gravitate towards your favorites when they're live and that's it. 🙂 Here's what it has boiled down to for me as a night shift guy. - EU Time Zone afternoon streamer that I wake up to and have going while getting ready for work. - US Evening streamer on weekends and days off only. - Late night streamer for after work. - US Morning streamer that I fall asleep to. I could be just fine with 4 streamers who stream daily. Little surprise Twitch is like this as opposed to RUclips. 🙂
So basically unless you are one of the top 10 streamers on twitch, you will never get views. Good to know. So promoting yourself on other platforms then is a must do if you want success on twitch or anywhere else.
I almost feel like the shared audience is, in a way, the strength of Twitch. Its what gives it its distinct cultural identity, leading to insane watch times and barrier to entry alike. Its a crystallization of the age-old collab meta we've known since RUclips 2.0 (3.0?). Sure it promotes kingmaker behaviour, but the healthiness of the scene isn't necessarily indicated by how large that rolling audience is, but rather how many distinct circuits of rolling audiences there are. I think back to the Twitch data visualization of audience overlap, the one that showed the different communities and how close they were to each other. And I almost want to be able to see the circuits of the distinct 17% shared audiences, of the top 3's 26% shared audience. But also all the other cultivated circuits. How big is the Tommyinnit circuit? How big is the VTuber one? Will there ever arise an Art circuit or a TTRPG one, one that is distinct and not just the trend of the day the main kingmaker circuit blob is trying out. It seems like that's the only way you get out of the kingmaker dilemma. Where multiple circuits exist, and any one of them could spit out the next rising star. Because collab meta certainly isn't going anywhere, and those promising Twitch streamers with interesting content should be figuring out how to deliver that fresh new content through collabs and purposefully cultivating a shared audience that isn't just going to fuck off to watch drama. My 2 cents on it anyways.
So what I'm getting from this is small streamers need to find another streamer the same size and try to bounce each others viewers back and forth while picking any new views and just try to get a snowball effect going
@@UpRisingCake Fair enough. Collabs are certainly not a _bad_ idea to cross pollinate your audiences somewhat. It won't create a "snowball" effect on its own though.
Do you feel like streaming on RUclips has the same discoverability metrics as streaming on twitch, assuming no external marketing is done in either case? Wondering if streaming alone is ineffective for growth without external marketing, regardless of platform.
I was a regular watching small streamers (8-10 viewers) Nad I often meet the same viewers. I assume it is mostly because of the Raid features. A lot if small streamers love raiding their friends, and eventually, users starts to see each other elsewhere. The community is incredible small in that sense?
You should be VERY concerned though if the largest users on Twitch pretty much run things. We don't need history repeating itself with the elitist downfall of Blip TV as a RUclips competitor when Maker Studios bought it out. 🧐
Dam 105 minutes per session. If Train streams I’m on a 36 hour session (just a sad fun fact). But I do love going into sections that has only 10-15 viewers and try and return whenever possible. But I am finding myself watching RUclips a lot more than I ever did ,more for information purposes something that Twitch doesn’t offer.
it doesn't mean there is literally 22 people watching 1 streamer because as you may have guessed there are many streamers who have 0-1 watching. The 22:1 comes from an average of the mega, mid, and small streamers.
I'm debating on whether I want to stay on Twitch or not since my viewers are decreasing due to them not being counted unless they turn the volume down low during my stream😒 I'm irritated asf honestly especially since I sent a help ticket a month ago and never got a response🤦🏽♀️
I would even take this deeper and say, alot of the viewers are really only there to record content that they purely use for youtube channels which they montize.
Every aspiring (Twitch) streamer should watch this. If someone thinks "It's not worth" watching a sub 20 min video but "It is worth" streaming for 4-8 hours a day to "grow" on stream, they really need to learn how all of this looks like.
Devin youve been sitting at the “cool kids” lunch table the whole time lol. You’ve talked to practically every big streamer multiple times on trains podcast and even have some of them as your clients.
I'm just going to tell you... I have a channel dedicated to indie game development and voxel art. In 5-6 months of twitch I gained like 270 followers and an average of 5 to 6 people in my streams, most of those come from raids sent by friends of mine, but they are not very sticky followers. Besides that, I got 0 to 2 followers per stream and 0 followers if I wasn't live.
A few months ago I discovered your channel and followed the advice: if you want to grow on twitch, grow on youtube and send your audience there. Thanks to the power of SEO and the "algorithm" in 3 months of youtube I now have about the same amount of followers (around 320) on both platforms AND I get followed on twitch on a daily basis when I'm not even streaming anymore, I SOMETIMES do a weekly livestream on twitch and I have 10 to 15 people. Also, I see a consistent growth on my youtube channel, day by day.
So, thank you, your advice is solid.
I was just catching up with devin's content and saw your comment. Man do yt shorts, IG stories and tiktok. Do timelapses or how to do x in 3 steps, these things can go REALLY viral. Just put twitch logo and your name somewhere, boom viral content contender ;)
Small and medium twitch streamers can create content on other platforms to bring viewers to twitch. Those viewers will eventually end up watching the kingmakers
the wearing black and not sitting at the cool kids table joke was amazing and i 100% relate
I too moved to RUclips. I am a quarter of the way to my total views on Twitch and I only moved here in June. It’s crazy.
This is very true! Instead of streaming 8h per day, it's better for discoverability to stream 2 or 3 and spend the rest of the time growing on other platforms.
what you're mentioning here applies to the apex niche and it's super fun to have my previous suspicions confirmed, all big streamers are collabing, doing "shows" by playing ranked and growing with subpar content when quality-focused creators are struggling, and the ones who make it through get endlessly harrassed for "not playing ranked", or "being good enough" aka "playing with the big names"
not necessarily talking about me, but I see it over and over again with movement focused streamers in particular
All those big streamers are mostly just watching RUclips, zero content they produce.
I mean just learn from faide since he probably is top 5 earners in apex. Clickbait the fuck out of RUclips and focus on that
@Mindless Dante Literally the exact opposite. You have to make high quality niche content, develop a base, then you can just regurgitate garbage for views.
Don’t worry about the “shows”, don’t worry about that audience. Bunch of drama queens. There are people doing the same thing on you tube. We are just quietly enjoying it. Rather than coming together. We could learn a bit from twitch, but I like RUclips. @ottr @devinnash… been watching both of you on and off for 2/3 years. Just smarter circles here😂🤷♂️👌🤞
I stopped watching twitch cause of the drama. Now watch Nick again here and there now he’s playing apex and on you tube. I still like watching combos of people playing. Soofar and itemp current favs by some miles
The one thing I've noticed is how many content creators are basically jumping on the coattails of bigger content creators by doing the "Joe Blow reacts to King Shit's take on Video Game Controversy X" type streams and videos. It feels so much like Mean Girls in how all the people who can't get into the Plastics talk about the Plastics, because they also want some attention, so they talk about what people want to hear about.
Its extremely interesting how the ecosystem of twitch works. I really love your videos because the time put in and the endless information you provide. You get people thinking and see different perspectives.
It’s odd that Twitch don’t prioritise bringing new people in through advertisement. I feel like once people are in the loop, they rarely leave but I’ve not seen any ways of bringing them in compared to the lengths that other media companies go to. It’s not a surprise that there’s so much overlap between bigger streams, the ecosystem is so closed off that there’s nowhere else for people to go. And the ‘King-maker’ setup just adds to it.
Didn't they sign deals with people who never used Twitch like the rapper Logic but that investment failed?
That's because so many big streamers have big channels on RUclips and other social media and it just brings them to Twitch naturally, I've seen some twitch ads before but they're usually on the app store more than on RUclips
Based on my daughter, I'll add that a lot of users will be teenagers with a TON of time, they are very dedicated, and they are are connected to know when the next stream is on other platforms like Twitter and Instagram. I'll also add the streamers she's discovered aren't often discovered on Twitch - I believe tic tok has had a lot of benefit right now.
This is very true for the Minecraft community as well! There's definitely the "cool kids" who control who else is cool or not through SMP invites and other collaborations. Such an interesting thing to think about, great video!
Thanks for your videos Nash. In 2018, I had more viewers than in 2020. Twitch suddenly changed and got crappier for small streamers and so being a casual streamers makes it harder. I feel like, streamers have to be in the circle of Twitch Partners for them to keep pace and it feels like to me and others that there's an exclusivity pool on the platform. If you're not in the circle, you're out. However, some streamers do not want to **be** in the circle and caught up in the seemingly reality TV show drama where Twitch seems to be heading.
RUclips does way better and they keep getting better.
So true. And you can see it in how Mizkif made Emiru grow so fast. Mizkif is right, Twitch is like high school, with the cool kids gatekeeping popularity and growth on the platform.
Big streamers are just one big clique.
It's like saying once you start watching GTA RP it's easy to just hop around in that area because it is like watching a live tv show with all these people being actors.
Just wanna say your intro for this video was top notch, had me hooked right away
That holding a sign in the airport was deep. Great video Devin.
When they took away the “search by title” option, it gave youtube so much power imo
Yeah this is very true. If you watch reaction youtubers reacting to top twitch clips they always end up confused and dont get it since the top producers of twitch clips are all part of this clique and most of the comedy stems from inside jokes.
I know I rarely use twitch since when I do go, I usually just check my followers to see if any of the small streamers I like are online and then I leave if they arent.
The big streamer experience isnt something I care about too much, so I rarely watch twitch.
Whereas here, I can watch the clips from the good bits which I missed from the few big creators I like. And I am just here all the time already due to the videos.
Bro your ad placement game is on point 😂👌
I wonder how many times is Devin gonna beat us over the head about how ANY OTHER platform is going to be a better way to grow as a cc. Thank you Devin! It really does help the people like me that don’t learn lmao
Until everyone gets the message haha.
Because people still don't get it. So many people don't understand that twitch discoverability sucks.
Loved the Video. Been streaming on Twitch for a few years. Did the partner grind with a game called "They Are Billions." Just cycled viewers that has a niche community within the twitch community. Hate how drama driven twitch has turned. Keep the good stuff comin Devin!
Great stuff man! Really this sort of data is the reason I have been transitioning my streams and content to youtube. While it lacks some of the engagement, especially when my channel isn't monetized yet, it still feels less gross overall. I love the community I built on twitch, but the best of them came from elsewhere anyway.
Interesting analysis. I sort of see twitch as this sort of strange place where the only people who watch it are the people who watch it, which sort of doesn't make sense but it does. It has a very comfortable feel to it because so many people have a shared experience and probably feel like they're in an exclusive club that only they get access to, and that's pretty much true. I really do think in the end of the day, there's no single platform that will be able to change people's human nature, which is a basic need to be involved with a community, and twitch feels that way specifically because of that niche.
That being said, I feel like they're on their way out, especially if they don't implement features similar to youtube's, particularly ignoring the potential of creating a streamlined and algorithm based clip viewing page. I should be able to just click "shuffle" and watch EVERY SINGLE CLIP randomly supplied to me by whatever filters I put in, most likely involving the tag system and by category, streamers, or even whether certain communities have overlap. There's just so much potential being ignored.
What you just described is " The Mean Girls " theory ( I made this up). Unless you are at the table with Regina George you are deemed uncool. Everyone basically knows this , if you pay attention, if not , it was just broken down for you by the one and only Devin Nash.
Wanted to swing by and say thanks. First came across you a couple of months ago and you were the first person I saw truly talk about how this journey can affect mental health. I was streaming for a while to 1 and sometimes 0 viewers. Did 225 hours on Twitch so far since April, with 15 hours on RUclips added on to that. The ROI was just not there from Twitch at all. Before I started streaming I purchased the Adobe CC to help with my content creation and realized I wasn’t getting better at the programs.
Your video suggesting we do other things was very helpful. I want to be more than a streamer, but it seems like I was on an endless grind that left me filling empty. Since the beginning of December I decided to stop streaming and focus on creating content and getting better at that. That has given me flexibility to learn more and get better at different things. I feel more free. Also I get to see growth days and sometimes weeks after I uploaded something. My mental health is also better now.
Hopefully more people come across the information that there are other pathways to growth. I think a lot of people are caught in the streaming grind when they truly want to be more
Damn that is really incredible that the *AVERAGE* viewer spends 70 minutes watching per stream. I honestly can't think of the last time I spent anywhere near that amount of time in a stream. Even when I used to stream to a few hundred people I never spent that kind of time watching other people. Maybe I just don't get it and I'm doomed to be a 100-500 viewer "Andy."
i think its different for streamers, most streamers would rather stream themselves, rather than watch other streams. me personally, i've watched 70+ minutes of your streams before. during covid time, for example, i would have your stream up for hours watching you play crowfall while i was working from home. thats why these stats are so nice because it takes us away from our personal perspective and shows us the facts
@@vmgenny Crowfall viewers in the comments! 😎
I have tons of streams up while I work and use it as background noise for the most part. The 70 min thing, while by the data is correct, is a little skewed for that reason.
@@jrhollywood Makes sense. It's a lot easier to rack up watch time with Twitch compared to RUclips. It's the equivalent to having the TV on in the living room while you're making dinner.
@@ZybakTV yep, that's how I watch twitch as well. It's always a "second monitor" thing.
If anyone's seen Community this sounds like MeowMeowBeenz where the only way to become a 5 star is if all the other 5 star rated people vote you in.
I’m feeling VERY vindicated about dropping any plans to grow an audience on Twitch right now.
Ok ok. Thanks for the information. But what are you hiding in the Path of Exile bookmark folder? 😱👍
Every OTK related streamer that grew in size this year
I don't watch the OTK drama gods, but a lot of the smaller streamers I watch i saw on another medium sized streamer first. I don't think i've ever discovered a streamer through twitch directly (not counting colabs). This is compounded in off stream advertising too. If you're in the inner circle of one of these large drama groups, not only do you have colabs, but you have reddit too. LSF, as much as streamers pretend to hate it is all a view machine for OTK and some of the other personality streamers.
so small streamers actually bring in new blood and big streamers/twitch get the profit. So glad to be leaving this non caring platform
Twitch really is a reality TV show spread between Austin and L.A.
Quality content. Thank you.
So what im getting from this is that Twitch basically became the Disney Channel of social medias
Devin's content is always so interesting
isn't the viewer to streamer ratio skewed by the fact that the vast majority of streams going live on any given day aren't being watched at all by anyone?
Very insightful! I definitely caught on to the discoverability issue at one point, and so wish I figured it out earlier! Unfortunate King-based system, but it's good to be aware! 👍
Another great watch - thanks for doing what you do! :)
I am amazing how accurate this actually is. I watch twitch for 2+ hrs a day and every game community within twitch is also similar
This is the saddest thing, and half the time the "content" being used was hard work someone else put it. I love the viewers who appreciate genuine creators or creators who actually try to connect with the viewer and offer something more than just a cringy moment or clickbait. I love content creation for the sheer fact I can connect with and meet people who like the same games or anime or comics and we can nerd out and have a great time! Forming that community and being able to brighten a day or two is what makes it worth while to me at least. Seeing these stats is eye opening and just shows that you need to diversify content because Twitch is not the end all be all.
Even tho I have your notifications on, I check your channel every morning to see if something new is posted. Anyone serious about growth, small, medium or large following, can learn alot from this mans content. For anyone going through the comments and just wondering if the vids are worth it, they are. If you seek to learn something, you will learn something. Keep the grind up everyone and Happy Holidays.
Same people are watching the same content for hours every day. I've seen this trend for a long time now. Thought it was common knowledge. Every time you got to LSF to see what's trending at Twitch it's just the same few streamers highlighted by the same users doing the same meta on a daily basis. How can you have any growth other than cannibalism in this kind of environment?
I just added "Hold up a sign, in a busy airport, with your Twitch channel information." as a recommended method of growth to my list.
This video was a really interesting watch. I can always find other streamers and creators who will follow and stop in the stream, but once they give up because they haven't "made it" in 3 months, they don't watch anymore. I have never been able to find the "Viewer" that only watches. But I'm a boring "just plays video games" guy.
You can see this with GTA no pixel most of the people watching are shared veiwers from both XQC and Summit, both have helped smaller streamers make a name for themselves through them. You can see the viwership grow and drop depending on wether or not the bigger is logged in or not.
I love and hate twitch community so much because it really is like high school in a sense in order to go further you have to collab since discoverability is so hard and the drama can be overwehlmingly toxic and harmful some streamers have to deal with wacko stalkers/ parasocial frogs ! On the bright side the communities fostered can definitely be a very welcoming and just all around very easy to become apart of !!
Enjoyed. Good application of the great play, added a nice touch. 👍
4:45 Shots fired
Literally every video Devin uploads screams “Stream on RUclips” louder and louder every time
Really good research and video
This video just changed my life. Thank you Devin, all good points
The irony of being able to make playing games into a job by being good at socializing...
Friends are better than Life skills or Gameplay. Then Devin knows best is something nobody can deny.
another banger of educational content
Ive made this suggestion on twitchs suggestion page but a twitch shorts/twitchtok etc feed for people to upload their content that would also have an icon displayin live now to drive more people into new streams
Thank you for another video Devin. Love the channel!
I’ve always found it so fascinating how these top dogs have so many people just watching them. Their chat is a walk of spam. You can’t really interact with the broadcaster. They aren’t that different from someone who has way less viewership, and yet there’s 10-100k watching.
New Devin content yaaay
14:28...ouch 😪
Your content is super insightful but I feel like this video was on another level 🔥
all fax no printer! thanks for the insight Devin!
as one of the hardcore twitch consumers I already knew all of this. this video is much more helpful for people who don't really watch twtich
Yeah I wish I knew earlier I spend 70 hours a week streaming for a year and a half and got absolutely no where, I learned a lot and it made me push myself to be very interactive and creative but unfortunately as you mentioned it’s very slow, and now I’m back at work since Covid is over so I get to stream once a week sometimes and all I’m focused on is RUclips instead but overall this is very useful info and I wish I’d put the same amount of hours and energy in RUclips when I had all this time I would of had a 20 times bigger community and growth by now.
12:39 D; how dare you make fun of me! Jk… great video as usual and thanks for the info. Guess I can’t grow as 1 viewer Andy playing apex legends. Apparently people don’t take 5 minutes to scroll down the category to find me? Unfortunate.
devin you're the biggest inspiration for me to quit streaming and do youtube. thank you brother
statistically speaking, since each user has a finite amount of time spent watching twitch, and the number of small to medium size streamers are much larger than the top kingmakers, it's obvious that the viewers wouldn't be able to spread their view time across such a larger base of streamers, and therefore would be much less likely to overlap.
this just seems like a natural occurrance rather than anything caused by twitch itself.
small pocket communities form in these lower tiers and within those pockets of streamers, there is plenty of overlap. they just don't spread far beyond those pockets.
Hailing from Washington State, no the other one. Former CLG Heavyweight Champion of the LoL.
Devin "The King Maker" Nash
Not really surprised at this. Twitch's emphasis on Live is so huge that people are conditioned to only care about their streamers when they're live, so it ends up like TV without DVRs or VCRs. You'll probably gravitate towards your favorites when they're live and that's it. 🙂
Here's what it has boiled down to for me as a night shift guy.
- EU Time Zone afternoon streamer that I wake up to and have going while getting ready for work.
- US Evening streamer on weekends and days off only.
- Late night streamer for after work.
- US Morning streamer that I fall asleep to.
I could be just fine with 4 streamers who stream daily.
Little surprise Twitch is like this as opposed to RUclips. 🙂
recommended works coming from a person with avg 2 viewers about 4-5 people found me through the feature i know its super small but ya my thoughts
So basically unless you are one of the top 10 streamers on twitch, you will never get views. Good to know. So promoting yourself on other platforms then is a must do if you want success on twitch or anywhere else.
Yeah Devin mentioned that before. Grow your social media and then people will come watch you stream. But even then it can be hard
And instead of working on bolstering discoverability they tried to add pay to win OMEGALUL
Lol I got a Salesforce ad ofc
great video as always
Its not who you know, its who you blow.
I almost feel like the shared audience is, in a way, the strength of Twitch. Its what gives it its distinct cultural identity, leading to insane watch times and barrier to entry alike. Its a crystallization of the age-old collab meta we've known since RUclips 2.0 (3.0?). Sure it promotes kingmaker behaviour, but the healthiness of the scene isn't necessarily indicated by how large that rolling audience is, but rather how many distinct circuits of rolling audiences there are.
I think back to the Twitch data visualization of audience overlap, the one that showed the different communities and how close they were to each other. And I almost want to be able to see the circuits of the distinct 17% shared audiences, of the top 3's 26% shared audience. But also all the other cultivated circuits. How big is the Tommyinnit circuit? How big is the VTuber one? Will there ever arise an Art circuit or a TTRPG one, one that is distinct and not just the trend of the day the main kingmaker circuit blob is trying out.
It seems like that's the only way you get out of the kingmaker dilemma. Where multiple circuits exist, and any one of them could spit out the next rising star. Because collab meta certainly isn't going anywhere, and those promising Twitch streamers with interesting content should be figuring out how to deliver that fresh new content through collabs and purposefully cultivating a shared audience that isn't just going to fuck off to watch drama.
My 2 cents on it anyways.
So what I'm getting from this is small streamers need to find another streamer the same size and try to bounce each others viewers back and forth while picking any new views and just try to get a snowball effect going
Did you miss the multiple times he said "stop trying to grow ON twitch"
@@GuvernorDave no I got that part Im just talking about the days you do decide to stream
@@UpRisingCake Fair enough. Collabs are certainly not a _bad_ idea to cross pollinate your audiences somewhat. It won't create a "snowball" effect on its own though.
See, I never knew these stats! I need to switch to RUclips!
Do you feel like streaming on RUclips has the same discoverability metrics as streaming on twitch, assuming no external marketing is done in either case? Wondering if streaming alone is ineffective for growth without external marketing, regardless of platform.
Keep ✍🏽 creating ✍🏽 on ✍🏽 RUclips ✍🏽
There are a lot of memes and emotes on the platform that come from small power user communities.
David, what do you think if someone created a similar platform like twitch with a better discovery algorithm and biggest payout for subscriptions?
Good stuff bro
I was a regular watching small streamers (8-10 viewers) Nad I often meet the same viewers. I assume it is mostly because of the Raid features. A lot if small streamers love raiding their friends, and eventually, users starts to see each other elsewhere.
The community is incredible small in that sense?
some users just go to twitch to watch esports event.
You should be VERY concerned though if the largest users on Twitch pretty much run things. We don't need history repeating itself with the elitist downfall of Blip TV as a RUclips competitor when Maker Studios bought it out. 🧐
This explains why random people who never talk twitch politics and focus on like fps shit talk about hasan getting banned for saying cracker
In short, Twitch users are more likely to suffer from mental illness.
Dam 105 minutes per session. If Train streams I’m on a 36 hour session (just a sad fun fact). But I do love going into sections that has only 10-15 viewers and try and return whenever possible. But I am finding myself watching RUclips a lot more than I ever did ,more for information purposes something that Twitch doesn’t offer.
I was so confused at the 22:1 part, anyone else?
There's 22 viewers for each streamer.
it doesn't mean there is literally 22 people watching 1 streamer because as you may have guessed there are many streamers who have 0-1 watching. The 22:1 comes from an average of the mega, mid, and small streamers.
I'm debating on whether I want to stay on Twitch or not since my viewers are decreasing due to them not being counted unless they turn the volume down low during my stream😒 I'm irritated asf honestly especially since I sent a help ticket a month ago and never got a response🤦🏽♀️
Twitch to RUclips is like live theatre to TV.
the average length of content on YT is shorter than twitch by far. im not sure if that metric is applicable?
I would even take this deeper and say, alot of the viewers are really only there to record content that they purely use for youtube channels which they montize.
How it took all of you this long to figure this out. Its obvious to anyone who interacts with these circles of people 😂
Oh yeah baby we early for class