Q and A: Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2019
- Q and A: Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg
Other Resources:
thenarrowpath.com
Steve Gregg - Three Views of Hell Part 1: www.thenarrowpath.com/audio/t...
Steve Gregg - Three Views of Hell Part 2: www.thenarrowpath.com/audio/t...
Steve Gregg’s Book - Hell - Three Christian Views: www.christianbook.com/three-ch...
I suggest in future Q&A's that the people asking questions are loud enough for those listening to the replay are able to hear. Thanks
When we preach the Gospel...the Holy Spirit should speak through us...like Jesus and His apostles preached....and then every word will be perfect and what is needed to hear....I certainly needed hell preached to me...because I was in the deepest hole of deception and homosexuality for 28 years.....and the Lord gave me a vision of the deepest darkness of non-existence from Life and Knowing His goodness and great eternal promises in Christ....It was exactly the LIGHT I needed to cry out to Lord Jesus for mercy...and He made me free....from sin and death...and God translated me into His Kingdom, making me a son....astounding grace....
Regardless of whether ECT is true or annihilation ultimately, it does say that to fall into the hands of the living God is a fearful thing however, I'll select the fact that they talked about. What is our motivation for following Jesus? Is it to avoid hell? If that's it? Well that's not good. I think we need to realize God deserves our love and ultimately He does love us as well
Mt 25.46 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
so is heaven...eternal....or an age, or a long time...
@@philipbuckley759 He explains this in the video, but Aionios, which is the word being translated into everlasting/eternal in those passages only refers to a coming time. We know that heaven is forever not because of this passage but because of the passages that say "there is no more death" and "God's reign has no end" and passages like that.
Life and death are the contrast right throughout scripture in this passage The eternal punishment is death where the destruction of body and Soul occurs s which is confirmed in Matthew 10:28. You could assume that the eternal punishment is some kind of eternal torture however that's inconsistent with so many scriptures right throughout Romans and the rest of the New Testament and all of the Old Testament except for possibly the symbolic book of revelation.
Thanks
Salvation, in the NT, is rarely about "getting into Heaven" and the like. It is richer and involves a set of beliefs about Jesus' lordship now.
I walked away from an assembly in which the pastor/teacher who ran that assembly went from faithfully teaching eternal conscious torment for 40 years to conditional immortality which he jumped into for about 6 months finally landing on a sort of annihilation/recreation sort of trinitarian universalism. One day I asked him a question that went like this. "If after Adam and Eve fell and if Jesus Christ never was promised to come and never did come to atone for us, just what sort of gun barrel would all of mankind be looking down? A) an annihilate one? B) An eternal conscious torment one? When he told me that it would have been an annihilate one, I walked out of that assembly never to return again. Why? It was not so much as what sort of judgment the unbelieving would have but rather what sort of punishment Jesus Christ bore to pay for our sins and return us to the Father. To claim that all we deserved was to speak us all out of existence then recreate us again the right way the second time was not speaking to the reason that Jesus Christ had to come and suffer and give Him credit for the eternal equivalent of extent of that suffering that He needed to pay for our original sin, genetically transmitted sin nature ,and personal sins as well as give us all an eternally secure standing. it is one problem to give us all eternal life and it is altogether another problem to pay for eternal sin and personal sins against an eternal God. If Jesus did not pay for an infinite eternal negative number within each and every of 901 separate categories of personal sins then I think we shorted Him praise for the glory pf that work. Why then would He have had to come and die in such a horrible manner if we could have born the torture ourselves then been annihilated then been recreated with something positive from our Creator? The numbers do not add up when you look not at the rhetoric of the scriptures but rather the price paid. The extermination of the sinner then the recreation of the sinner would be an easy peasy task for God instead of having to send Jesus Christ to pay for our sins in such a horrible painful manner. Thus we are looking at something that was far more expensive to God than we suffering for a while then poof we are gone then poof we are all recreated right again like in the hitchhikers to the galaxy. As far as giving us motivation for living the Christian life well never forget the gift is free without conditions of probation. We do not need to love Jesus to be saved only believe on Him alone without any notions regarding our works and the value of them. We must regard the value of our works good or evil as irrelevant and affirm relevance only to the work of our Savior Jesus Christ.
Simple answer Jesus died for our sins yes he died for our sins. the moment he breathed his last the temple curtain was torn in two signifying that his death, the shedding of his blood, was the payment for our sin. not torture prior to his death and not torture Post death in any location was the payment for our sin. The whole notion of eternal torment undermines the substitutionary atonement of Christ
Steve Greegs teaching on Purgatory is incorrect. Purgatory is not meant for people who have mortal sin, it's only meant for people with venial sin who still carry around imperfections and are not cleansed from impure thoughts. People with mortal sin go directly to hell at death
1:15 The devil fight over micheal over the body of Moses; from the book "The Assumption of Moses"
2:40 purgatory
Preaching like Peter & Paul in Acts is definitely what we're missing from the pulpits! 50:16
the issue is that there is way too much....preaching from the pulpits.....the one man show, where all the ones in attendance are forced into, basically a sponge....never growing spiritually...
@@philipbuckley759 I agree! The clergy/laity dynamic needs to be shaken up! I get the feeling the Holy Spirit has left the building more than I should!
I have heard of so many testimonies of people praying for others they knew for that persons salvation. So many of those people prayers were answered.
The famous lady of Fatima showed the children a vision of hell and showed them its a real place. People who hate or despise Christ would never want to be with him anyways. He is pure, holy, good, loving. People of sin don't want anything to do with that.
No one comes to the father unless they are called. Steve needs to explain the paradox of why some are called by God and others are not. One would conclude then that God is very unfair only saving certain people.
I listen to you every day on KARI 550 AM Steve, it's a god program...I don't agree with everything but that's ok...about our "souls" when we are all caught up to meet the LORD in the air we will be given immortality...but the wicked are not going to receive immortal souls because they where not in the first resurrection because of their denial of Yeshua etc...so if they don't receive immortal souls then how can they be "tormented" for eternity....just wondering what you'd think about that...God bless
Yes only believers put on immortality when we are resurrected but unbelievers do not so the immortal soul concept is not biblical it is a Greek philosophical concept
For me, I can see it both ways how the bible speaks of ECT or Conditionalism. If I were just using the bible I could go either way, but might slightly see it as Conditionalism more, but there is another piece of evidence that has me more inline with ECT and that is all of the hellish NDEs folks have spoken about.
A couple of things to consider that may make you more likely to choose conditionalism is that Jesus death is in line with substitutionary atonement however eternal torment is not. Also people are kept alive and told me to forever not to mention the fact that it's Cruel but justice is never finalised. Author of unbelievers are continually sinning while they're being tormented then sin is never eradicated either. If they are not sinning then it's a bit strange because they would be better than us Christians.
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Yeah, I don't think there would be anything to convince me of conditionalism. Again if only the bible, I could kind of see it, but I can't ignore all of these visions and NDEs of hell. I think of Bill Weise testimony, Mary K Baxter, Bryan Melvin, Maurice Rawlings writing on his patients who said they went to hell. I mean just a simple RUclips search of "hell testimonies" and they are numerous. It is hard to simply disregard all of them and to conclude "they are all lying". What are the odds, all of them simply made it up? I don't know, I hope conditionalism is true, I just don't believe it is, with all of those testimonies.
If there is no sense of fear portrayed by the biblical text I believe that people are so sinful that why would they ever want to love God in the first place because there's nothing to really fear after death
Jesus consistently talked about gaining eternal life which seems a very wonderful thing I mean I heard a story the other day of two people wanting to cryogenetically preserve their bodies at great expense in order to have the possibility of living on forever. Eternal life is a wonderful thing especially if you're spending it with Jesus. If there reward is so wonderful then the loss of that reward is a great loss.
commenting to the 50:22 + , They were speaking to jews. The priority was for them to except the messiah. So their focus was not on damnation.
Good point (about the Jew context, where perhaps the apostles presumed they already knew about hell), though the other place where I can recall Paul preaching to Gentiles was at Mars Hill, where Paul says in Acts 17:31 that He will judge the world in righteousness. Paul did not seem to go into details (ie. eternal conscious torment), though what we have could very well be a succinct summary of the highlights.
(Mat 7:11) If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
Steve should kerp in mind Matthew 15:9..because he intend to hold on to TRADITION. and this is the 'green' light for entry into hell...so Steve take note!
A bit of a strange comment considering that the traditional teaching is eternal torment, so holding on to tradition would be holding on to that which you and every other Christian that I know believed even before you had studied the Bible on the topic hence it is the traditional view.
Jesus spoke about people who served him “Lord didn’t we cast out demons… who would be cast out because He never knew them. The apostle spoke about working our his Salvation with fear & trembling lest he be cast away. Finally Jesus warned Churches in Revelations about eternal consequences? Thoughts
there is no other choice where saying no....brings such dire consequences......it is the elephant in the room.....which makes all of this so frustrating......
The people who work for a living, who want to refrain from judging others, and who may loosely be referred to as the Conscientious People of the Age have rejected everything but Origen’s view of Restoration as a possibility. What parent says I want to create children to test them?
I listened to a Rabbi’s view of God’s injunction to Adam and Eve regarding eating or touching the fruit. I was pleasantly surprised to hear him say that their endurance of this commandment was to be brief. If nothing looms over God, Will anything loom over man who has attained the right to the Tree of Life and can enter the city by the gates, who moreover is perfected in the image and likeness of God?
Parents nowadays who know their children’s gender before the baby comes, prepare lovingly for their children. The last thing on their mind is testing of allegiance. The real religion of God is grand big Familyism. I don’t don’t blame people for not believing in God. If God ever shared His sorrow with a person, if they survived the shock, they would know the parental heart of God which doesn’t include being into eternal torment. Perhaps for whatever reason, Origen’s view of this matter was hidden because people might have otherwise mistakenly adopted a payable on death attitude; not knowing that it could take a hundred thousand or even millions of years to rectify a mistake that you could solve in a month or even in a sincere instance of aligning your mind and heart with God while on earth.
Even if Origen is correct, which he is, we have to temper this understanding with what Jesus said, “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!” Jesus is saying punishment in the spirit world is worse than physical death. Therefore, it is wrong to teach that Origen’s perspective of bad earthly behavior being atoned for in eternity is going to be as easy as God wiping away the memory of perpetrators of impossible sins and the memories of violation in their victims.
People think of the spirit world as a cerebral place; it is not. The spirit world is a sensory place. God is not a mind, God is a spirit. The spirit of man moves the physical body. Shameless spiritual tears are shed through the physical body. The spirit has power to move the physical realm. The spirit world is not the invisible insubstantial world, it is the invisible substantial world. Of course, if God wants you to see this realm, your spiritual senses can open according to the Gift of the Discerning of Spirits.
Spirit world was not meant to be a place for warehousing sinners, it is for graduates of the university of love on earth, who by the multiplication of physical bodies, co-create with God to bring to life eternal beings, and thereby provide God with a lineage.
Jesus only said to one criminal that he would be with him in paradise that day.
The Greek of that verse is ambiguous as to whether the today applies to the time that Jesus says the statement or to the time when the thief would be with him. it seems to me it would be the former because that would answer the request of the thief to remember in him when Jesus came into his kingdom which hasn't happened yet. I wouldn't be that happy if I went to hell with Jesus would you? I'll be very happy if at the resurrection I was raised to eternal life and spent forever with him
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Jesus used the words..... Using the most up to date translation out of the NET bible, "And Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” The NET takes right from the greek and translates.
I am not sure one would go to hell with jesus? Jesus did not have to say anything. But he only spoke to one.
Second, The Fatima visionary asked Mary about a older teenage girl who died recently at that time. Mary said the girl would be in purgatory til the end of the world. You probably don't believe in that kind of thing. I just thought I would throw it in.
take up your issues with the one who constructed it.....
and one last thing...these are my thoughts... but just as the saved are going to be judged by Yeshua according to their works and how they lived their lives and will be given their rewards in Heaven....there are different levels of rewards in Heaven...so wouldn't that be the same for hell? according to how evil.wicked someone was then perhaps that will determine how long they are punished in the lake of fire...how long they will be tormented and then will be terminated/annihilated/cease to exist....your thoughts? God bless
Luke 12:47, 48
Speaking of old testemant, why hide from Daniel 12 2???
Why hide from Daniel 12: 2? Because it does not mean what many preachers claim that it does.
*contempt* /kən-tĕmpt′/
The state of being despised or dishonored by others.
_"He was held in contempt by his former friends."_
If Sunday worshippers really decide to repent ...then there is ONLY one thing you can repent of ....that is SIN.
The bible say sin is the trangression of God's moral law....1John 3:4......
..Psalms 19 :7..Romans 7: 12.... and the seventh day weekly sabbath IS A PART OF THAT LAW.(See Exodus 20 :: 8
But if you ask God for repentance and plan to break God's sabbath( a part of God ' s law)then you should remember Hebrews 10:26 ,27 and Galations 6: 7
Psalms 19: 13....BUT always remember
John 14 :15 ....and Matthew 15: 9.
I think Jesus had one view of hell.
so what is the deal, here....should we have a system, a language that we can understand....otherwise we will plead ignorance....hey, if you wanted it this way why did you not make it plain, so we could have understoood it...
the apostles had it right.....will you, too, leave me.....response....where shall we go......there is no option, or no viable option.....here.....anyone not taking any advantage to excape this judgement, basically is insane.....and like the Catch 22.....should they be judged....for being, in such a condition...
Steve must be an agony not knowing what view he accepts, I don't think he's really telling us the truth about not knowing himself he has to lean towards one of those
He is trying to faithfully represent the strongest arguments for each view. He has stated elsewhere that he rejects eternal torment and is undecided on the other two views. I suspect he leans towards Annihilation or at least I hope he does because that's the view that I hold. And I think it's the one that he's made the best case for and certainly the strongest by far in my opinion
@@michaelnewzealand1888 seems Steve and you don't really understand what SIN is and has done to mankind.
We send ourselves to hell or the Lake of Fire. God really let's us choose where we spend eternity. Some of his understanding of Greek words in my opinion are not accurate. We humans have an eternal soul and spirit which lives on after death. Annihilation is incorrect and is not Orthodox. Jehovah's Witness and Seventh-day Adventist which are both cults believe that heresy.
God does not think like we do. My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways.
evidently the subject was too important to leave to mortals....Jesus, himself taught on this subject, and once again....take up any issues, with him.....I just want to avoid the place....eh...
Instead of arguing over scriptures which are men's speculations try history: Robert M Price on hell,Heaven and Hell by Bart Ehrman.Hell doesn't exist
You are right. The original Bible manuscripts don't contain the word "hell" or any word which means hell.
Sheol is not hell.
Hades is not hell.
Gehenna is not hell.
The Lake of Fire is not hell.
instead of....three views....how about a Biblical view....after all judgement day is no academic exercise....and we need to be ready, for it.....
I take it from your comment you have an opinion on hell but you didn’t share it. Only, we must be ready.
The point of Steve’s book and the Q&A here was simply to discuss the possibility that what most Christian’s think about hell might not be accurate.