Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2019
- Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg
Other Resources:
thenarrowpath.com
Steve Gregg - Three Views of Hell Part 1: www.thenarrowpath.com/audio/t...
Steve Gregg - Three Views of Hell Part 2: www.thenarrowpath.com/audio/t...
Steve Gregg’s Book - Hell - Three Christian Views: www.christianbook.com/three-ch...
Excellent presentation.... View #3.... all nations shall come worship before the throne. Amen!!
View 3 doesn't account for predestination of election. "Jacob I loved, Esaw I hated" "I do not pray for the world, I pray for those you GAVE me" "nobody can come to me unless the father who sent me DRAWS him" etc. Etc.. also how it says for Judas is better if he had never been born..
All the same, hope view 3 is right
At this time in my life this is much needed information. I am a mother and grandmother; within the last 2 years 4 young men between the ages of 20-30 have been killed due to gun violence...I knew these guys personally at some level...[the latest was a week ago just 20yrs old] as for as I know given their life styles they did not have a relationship with Jesus; the thought of any of them suffering FOREVER in hell cuases me great grief ...THE FACT that the Bible provides texts for different views gives me some relief...Thanks for sharing. Will buy his book.
I heard Steve Gregg say on his radio show that the eternal torment view has far away the least Biblical support. He told the caller that there are five or six scriptures that could support that view, and scores that support conditional immortality.
They are sleeping in the grave until Jesus comes back.
----Revelation 20:4--And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (IN HEAVEN)
-----Psalm 115:17----The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
---Ecclesiastes 9:10----Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job --14:10---12-- But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
------Ecclesiastes 9:5-6---For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
----Genesis 3:19--In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
----Psalm 146:4--His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
----Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
--James 2:26---For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
--Psalm 6:5---For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
etc, etc.
@@mitchellosmer1293 good luck with that twisting of your cited verses...
Rev 20:4 is preceded by Rev 6:9-10 that shows those very same souls are alive and speaking
I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
Psalm 115:17 says the dead don't praise God and specifies they are going to Hades..and the very *_next_* verse says But we will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord. so... no one is "in the grave until 'til Jesus comes back"
Jesus explains what to expect in Luke 16's account of the rich man and Lazarus.. and they were not sleep talking
The fact that you don't even cite Jesus' Word and only cite out of context OT verses that are not addressing the afterlife in your attempt to mislead people about hell, shows you have zero respect for the severity of God's judgment.. but the worm dieth not and it can be observed forever.
you need to go back and study
@@inTruthbyGrace quote--Rev 20:4 is preceded by Rev 6:9-10 that shows those very same souls are alive and speaking .. unquote
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
AFTER the resurrection of the righteous!!!!
----quote--- that shows those very same souls are alive and speaking ----I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" unquote
What is the meaning of Revelation 6 10?
The prior verse mentioned souls who had been slain for their witness of the Word of God. According to this verse, the souls under the altar cry out for vengeance. They ask God how long it will be before He judges and takes vengeance on those who shed the martyrs' blood.
Apparently you believe everyone can talk to the dead---ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
God can--Jesus can ,talk to their spirits!!! Read that again, that is just BEFORE the last seal!!! Just before the tribulations!!! IT IS NOT TALKING about the present .
----quote---Psalms 115:17 in Other Translations
17 The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence. 17 The dead cannot sing praises to the LORD, for they have gone into the silence of the grave. 17 Dead people can't praise God - not a word to be heard from those buried in the ground.
--How about some more???
--Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
**NT-----James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
-**NT----John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
-Is that enough???
-----quote---. but the worm dieth not and it can be observed forever.
you need to go back and study- unquote
HYPOCRTIE--talk about taking verses out of context!!!
--More you all take out of context: Matt 16:18, Acts 20:7, ,Colossians 2:16 .
quote---the thought of any of them suffering FOREVER in hell cuases me great grief ...THE FACT that the Bible provides texts for different views gives me some relief... unquote
--Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
--John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Thank you so much Mr. Gregg I truly appreciate your teaching style your videos have been very important to me in understanding Gods word and my journey with Him. God bless you
Appreciated all your efforts!
It's good not being alone.
Steve gave us an excellent presentation!
Thanks for this video
Ecclesiastes 9:5 says the dead know nothing,neither have they a reward seems like it is saying that you have until death to repent and turn to Jesus....I just learned of your teaching 2 weeks ago,and I am encouraged to find a teacher with understanding so similar to my own.i agree that some topics are a little harder to discuss with people of different views,but I think thats why he says iron sharpens iron,because it has to be done through some friction and some times even some sparks
Its too bad that he didnt include a first century jewish view of hell, but i understand why not, it would be very short: there was no view on hell because hell wasnt part of the jewish scriptures nor doctrine.
Good teaching well rounded
Always love listening to Steve Gregg---good stuff
Thanks
Perhaps I missed whether Steve covered this verse, and I will need to listen again. Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement. Seems to me mankind’s destiny is fixed once one has died, not allowing for universal reconciliation.
I agree.. But what is the full details upon judgment. To be honest, I do not know what happens during that time.
Kind Berean in my understanding, at judgement the saved have their sins covered by the blood of Jesus; the lost will pay for their sins with eternal separation from the presence of God.
@@jamessanborn3043 The Bible does not say that though. At least it is not clear it does. That Hebrews passage just says "but after this, judgement." The judgement is not expounded upon. It could be eternal fire, or final death. It could also be that the judgement is an age of corrective punishment to bring unrepentant sinners to worship the King. That is the point of the lecture, I think. The Bible is not clear on the fate of the lost except that it is undesirable. So much so that we should make every effort to follow Jesus now.
It says we will die,,, judgement will occur. What happens between them? It doesnt say you will immediately be judged. ALL the burn in eternal torment supporters make assumptions that scripture doesnt support.
That also needs to mesh with "and all shall bow and declare Jesus is Lord"
Ok, I die, Im judged, I go into the train car with the pigs and I whisked away into hell. HUH? WHEN did I confess Jesus is Lord?
Ok, lets try this, I die, before judgement day Im given one chance to confess and accept Jesus as Lord, I do, then judgement, now I go into the train car made of god and rubies (or for my taste, hot women lol)
@@jesseleepeterson4991 what is the mark of the beast? What is the second death? Why does it say the lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels? You are coming to these passages with the assumption they agree with you. These are the MOST clear, and they are extremely symbolic and I don’t think your interpretation lines up with what comes next…
Why is it that just a few verses later we hear the proclamation that the gates of the New Jerusalem are never shut? Why does John see all the kings of the earth coming in to honor the Lamb? Keep in mind that “the kings of the earth” are the same ones rebelling against God and his people throughout the scriptures. So what happened to them that they now come to praise him?
The answer is that every knee will bow, and every tongue confess with joy, that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
I am convinced that Eternal Torment is incorrect. The character of Christ and the early church I think confirm this. Whether the lost are reconciled or annihilated is the question.
I readed the book. Like everyone else, it didn't change my point of view. I still think dead means dead, life means being alive.
exactly, people trying to make words mean something else
--Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
--John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
@@tomg6318
So, when it says when we were dead in sins, we were dead in the grave?
@@livingforjesus8551 It's a figure of speech like saying they are as good as dead. If you want a clear explanation directly from the Bible read Genesis 3:22 where Adam and Eve were denied eating from the tree of life lest they live forever in their sinful state
@@tomg6318
Now, now, you are trying to make dead mean something different, by saying it is just a figure of speech.
Very good Steve I agree hell fire is not forever
THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID
@@BP7BlackPearl okay then what did he say?
@@danielcrowell8143 He said he isnt sure which view is right
@@BP7BlackPearl well obviously sinners don’t get life in the lake of fire 🔥
@@danielcrowell8143 we are all sinners
12 New Testament Texts: HELL Is ETERNAL
The different ways ETERNITY in hell is stated:
• everlasting fire
• everlasting punishment
• eternal condemnation
• the fire that shall never be quenched
• their worm does not die
• unquenchable fire
• eternal destruction
• eternal judgment
• blackness of darkness reserved forever
• tormented with fire…forever and ever
Matthew 10:28
Matthew 18:8-9
Matthew 25:41
Matthew 25:46
Mark 3:29
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 3:17
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10
Hebrews 6:1-2
2 Peter 2:1-2, 10-22
Jude v.7
Revelation 14:9-12
Amen let God be true but this guy a liar.
Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by eternal fire - but the fire didn't last forever Jude v6. Angels bound with everlasting chains until the day of judgement, but those chain do not last forever Jude v7. Jonah went to everlasting hell, but got out after 3 days Jonah 2:2. Jesus said sinners will be destroyed body and soul in hell Matthew 10:28. Paul says sinners will be destroyed forever 2 Thess 1:9. Malachi says sinners will be burned up and will be ashes under our feet Malachi 4:2. Isiah says that the corpses of the wicked will be burned up Isiah 66:24. Sinners burned up in the lake of fire and suffer eternal death Revelation 20:10. Hell is death by incineration - the wicked shall be reduced to ash. The choice is eternal life with Jesus, or eternal death Matthew 25:41
@@JoBo301 Isaiah 66:24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them WILL NOT DIE, the fire that burns them WILL NOT BE QUENCHED, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
2 These 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of ETERNAL destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
Malachi 4:3 is probably not talking about hell, but something on earth, regarding their ashes that they would trample on. Cities were built on destroyed cities in those days, called tels.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER.
Jonah 2:2 does NOT say he went to everlasting hell.
You horribly misrepresented your texts, and those I posted still stand, which say:
• everlasting fire
• everlasting punishment
• eternal condemnation
• the fire that shall never be quenched
• their worm does not die
• unquenchable fire
• eternal destruction
• eternal judgment
• blackness of darkness reserved forever
• tormented with fire…forever and ever
Are you overcoming sin so that you'll go to heaven, or are you willfully sinning without ever fully repenting, so you're hoping that if you go to hell it won't be eternal? So that's your incentive to twist the word of God like this?
This is also impossible to refute. If everyone is annihilated the punishment for everyone is identical, which also is clearly unbiblical.
Different Levels of Punishment in Hell - 7 New Testament Statements
Different Levels of Punishment in Hell: Hell HEAVY to Hell LIGHT - “That servant who knew his lord’s will and didn’t prepare, nor did what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes, but he who didn’t know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes,” and even lighter than that?
Matthew 10:14-15, 11:20-24
Matthew 23:13
Luke 12:42-48
Hebrews 10:26-31
2 Peter 2:1-2, 10-22
James 3:1
Revelation 20:11-15
“For THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY WILL NOT LISTEN to the SOUND DOCTRINE, but, having ITCHING EARS, will heap up for themselves TEACHERS AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS; and *WILL TURN THEIR EARS AWAY FROM THE TRUTH*, and turn aside to FABLES.” (2 Tim. 4:3,4)
@@jefffenske1958You’re rigjt. It itches your ears to imagine people being tortured for eternity. What does that say about you??
I wouldn't chance going to Hell...Steve Greggs is not the one who will have the keys...you better have a solid relationship with The Almighty. We cannot view God as one-sided (loving unconditionally). There is a day of punishment.. I wish this wasn't the case...that souls will be let out of Hell. People, you gotta love Jesus enough to obey him. Christ did the finish work on that cross. Have a relationship, Study your Bible and stop allowing any belief to take up residence in your heart...If you love God, you will obey...1John 5:1, John 14:15...I listen to Steve Greggs often, but I have a relationship with God, that I know what God requires of me. Plz don't be lazy...study...pray...seek... guard your only soul, Luke 10:38 -42❤🙏🏼
you say you have to love Jesus "enough" to obey him, how can anybody know what enough is? it seems any way you look at it you're taking a chance
How would you know you love him enough? What Bible scripture says this? How does that square with John 3:16 that doesn't mention love or obeying.
@@tomg6318 At the very least, we must have a clear conscience now to have a clear conscience when we see Jesus face to Face:
“..I also practice ALWAYS having a CONSCIENCE VOID OF OFFENSE toward God and MEN.” - Acts 24:16
@@jeffallanday How does John 3:16 square with John 3:36:
“One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who DISOBEYS [‘apeitheo’ - Grk.] the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
We must walk in Paul's second list in Galatians 5.
@@jefffenske1958 That is a very good question. There are a lot of translations that do not translate John 3:36 as "disobeys". There is a lot of reasons why not to translate that passage to "disobeys". But it basically has to do with making a word for word translation where there should not have been a word for word translation. If that really did translate to disobey then most Christians if not all Christians would be in serious trouble because we all disobey Christ at times or for periods of time. The question then would be how much disobedience would condemn you eternally. This passage then would be considered vague and would lead Christians to think "am I now lost". You would find despair reeking havoc in many Christians lives. I don't have enough space here to speak of the positive argument to actually translate 3:36 as "whoever rejects the Son"(NIV translation). However, that translation goes nicely with John 3:16.
This is the one doctrine I wish the church would be open for discussion more. I go to a conservative non-denominational church. As an annihilationist, this is the only doctrine I can't teach at the church that I hold.
That's very sad, I feel for you as a fellow annihilationist who feels this is so clear in scripture. It's funny because looking at this issue the traditionalist has been fairly well indoctrinated, has a few very poor proof texts and yet they would say it's strong exegetically when I think just the opposite. But how would one know, if they only ever get one view pushed down their throat and never another? It's not like the traditional view upholds God's character or fits any standard temporal Christian notion of justice or punishment either.
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Very true. I think a lot of them are afraid to even consider an alternate view. Sometimes, the conservative side of Christianity embraces things because they are more difficult, so they aren't seen as progressives. I decided to become a Biblical Christian first. The other view I was neutral about for 20 years is Calvinism. It actually took me longer to get out of that than Eternal Torment. Even though I wouldn't have been in trouble for teaching Free Will/Provisionism. But to me, that was more difficult than my view on final judgement Biblically.
Great presentation. I would check out Edward Fudge for his view on this topic.
Matthew 25:41 Context
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
What is the cross model in jesuse time in which wood was there
The passage from Revelation 20:11-15 talks about death and Hades, or hell. Death here means the last enemy that will be destroyed when Christ returns and raises believers. This refers to physical death. Death and hades will both be thrown into the lake of fire, which is also called the second death. Second death refers to spiritual death. All people who are not reconciled with God through Jesus Christ, will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). This passage teaches that Hades is temporary and will exist until Jesus returns. After the great judgment when the books are opened (Revelation 20:12) Hades and death are both swallowed by the lake of fire along with all whose names are not in the book of life; but those whose names are written in it, will enjoy the new heaven
So both heaven and hell are places that exist until Jesus returns. Those who die in Christ, exist in heaven as spirits (Hebrews 12:23) but at Jesus’ return, will receive a new resurrection body that will not be subject to illness or death (Revelation 21:4).
The reality of hell and the lake of fire is terrible. A person without Christ is utterly lost in death and darkness. God does not want people to end this way. He sent his one and only Son to reconcile sinners to Himself: “For our sake he made him (Jesus) to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Paul wrote to the believers of Corinth that God implores people to get reconciled: “We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God” (2 Corinthians 5:20). Just like Paul was an ambassador for Christ, so believers nowadays are ambassadors for Christ who have the task to point people to Christ and to reconciliation that is found only in Him.
the Apostle Paul does speak about Hell. Steve is educated and knows this.
where?
@@bigdogboos1nowhere, he uses life and death over and over again.
Lies
Can those who find themselves in hell expect to see Adam?
Hebrews 9:27 was never mentioned !!!
People more afraid of eternal fire than desiring truth have maybe missed the love of Jesus as their conscience has been seared of mercy?
They are sleeping in the grave until Jesus comes back.
----Revelation 20:4--And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (IN HEAVEN)
-----Psalm 115:17----The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
---Ecclesiastes 9:10----Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job --14:10---12-- But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
------Ecclesiastes 9:5-6---For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
----Genesis 3:19--In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
----Psalm 146:4--His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
----Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
--James 2:26---For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
--Psalm 6:5---For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
etc, etc.
yep..seared
He says he doesn’t know that to think about the 3 different views !!!!!!! What did Jesus say about the subject , that is enough for me.
He said prettymuch nothing about "hell" as it's understood by most today. It's also important to note that there was no concept of "hell" in ancient judaism nor in Jewish scripture.
*"...What did Jesus say about the subject...."* That's good enough for me, too. And this is what Jesus said about the subject:
✴ _For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not . . . PERISH . . . PERISH . . . PERISH . . . but have everlasting life._ (John 3: 16, KJV)
Lol. And yet you have no clue what he said!
I'd like to add this. The Bible does use dead euphemistically for separation.
Speaking in the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus said in Luke 15:32 (ESV): 32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’ ” just though I'd add that.
--Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
--John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
I never really bought eternal punishment. The bible declares God as just and eternal punishment is not just for a finite life
This verse says that the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever, and that they have no rest day nor night. If they cease to exist, and not suffer eternal torment, then this verse is a lie.
Revelation 14:11
King James Version
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 14:11
King James Version
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
@@livingforjesus8551 the smoke of Babylon goes up forever as well but its TOTALLY destroyed in ONE hour....in the O.T. the smoke of Edom goes up forever as well but its not burning today
@@TheBlueCream
That still doesn't change the fact, that they have ni rest day nor night.
@@TheBlueCream
That still doesn't change the fact that they have no rest, dad nor night.
Matthew 25:46 "“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Rev 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Sure sounds like eternal to me....
Bible Gateway's translation and my KJV from Holman Bible Publishers I bought a few years ago both say 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I believe the word 'everlasting' is translated from 'aeon', meaning age-abiding.
@@WaffleDragon please educate me; what does age-abiding mean...thank you
@@timclark2925 Were you quoting 25:46 from one of your Bibles or was that from your memory? As I said, the two sources I see of the KJV say everlasting and eternal, rather than eternal twice.
Age-abiding generally means lasting for an age, to my understanding. Some believe this is pointing to the punishment being temporary.
I've been exploring universal reconciliation/salvation for while now. The channel Total Victory of Christ explains a lot of these tough topics.
Different Levels of Punishment in Hell - 7 New Testament Statements
Different Levels of Punishment in Hell: Hell HEAVY to Hell LIGHT - “That servant who knew his lord’s will and didn’t prepare, nor did what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes, but he who didn’t know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes,” and even lighter than that?
Matthew 10:14-15, 11:20-24
Matthew 23:13
Luke 12:42-48
Hebrews 10:26-31
2 Peter 2:1-2, 10-22
James 3:1
Revelation 20:11-15
'many' and 'few' stripes implies temporality not eternal punishment.
@@TheBlueCream I would suggest you read my article on this, which also includes a link to Mary K. Baxter's videos, etc. on the different levels of punishment in hell she experienced.
If you copy and paste this title into Google, it will pull up my article:
Different Levels of Punishment in Hell: Hell HEAVY to Hell LIGHT - "That servant who knew his lord's will and didn't prepare, nor did what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes, but he who didn't know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes," and even lighter than that?
@@TheBlueCreamBingo
So I'm nor a scholar nor particularly well read about the fathers of the Church but even I know that Tertulian is not of the Church. He's definitely not a father.
This is brilliant. How an all-powerful, all-wise God goes about telling humanity that their fate is eternal torment in the afterlife, from Peter Bradford Martin:
"Let's assume God wants to tell the human race about hell. It's a big deal, hell is. Affects a lot of people.
So here's what God does:
1. He doesn't warn humanity of it from the get-go, but rather tells Adam and Eve that the consequence of their fall was that they were now mortal, and that they would now have to toil on the earth and then die.
2. He makes sure to never mention it in the entire Jewish canon. Never. Once.
3. Then, he makes sure that rival mythologies of pagan cultures believe in some kind of a fiery underworld as punishment for wickedness.
4. Still doesn't tell the Jews about it.
5. Then, he makes sure that in the centuries and decades prior to God's coming to earth as a man, the competing Greco-Roman mythologies start to mingle and mix together. Jews start kind-of, sort-of believing in hell, too, now, even though their scriptures were silent on it. Rather than teach folks about hell himself, God allows pagans to do it.
6. God comes to earth as a man to set the record straight.
7. Now, God-as-man makes sure to refer to hell almost exclusively using the term "Gehenna", which was actually a nearby valley.
"That'll clear things up, then, won't it?" God says to himself. "No room for confusion there. Onto other things."
8. God goes back to heaven.
9. God's new followers break into the scene and one of them preaches the first post-resurrection sermon. To God's chagrin, he completely forgets to mention hell.
10. God notices that his new followers are conspicuously omitting the hell message all over the place. Confounded, he anoints a new leader, to once again set the record straight.
11. This new guy, Paul, goes around the whole Roman world, one end to the other. Get this - he never mentions hell. Never. Not once in any of his sermons or letters.
12. Now irate, God finally makes one last ditch effort to send the message clearly.
He goes to Patmos and tells this guy: 'Please. Set the record straight about hell, would you?' John says, 'You got it, God. How'd you like me to do it?'
Knowingly, with a clever smile, God says, 'Do it like this, K?
'Put it towards the end of the most confusing letter you can imagine... Use dramatic imagery, you know, the kind nobody could believe literally. You know, flying dragons, giant beasts with horns, cosmic prostitutes. Get creative. The point is to make sure some parts are literal and some are figurative. That'll keep them guessing. Oh, throw in a bunch of Jewish and Greco-Roman symbology, just to confuse those guys in the twenty-first century.'
'You got it, Lord.'
And so you have it: hell exists.
With a body of textual evidence like this, clearly God has gone to great lengths to make sure his people are under no illusions about it."
For a long time I've thought that 'fire' in regard to damnation was merely metaphorical. And more recently think the death of unbelievers is just that: death. They cease to exist. It's over, and they're gone forever without consciousness. Hearing all these ideas helps solidify my beliefs on the issue, I think. To be tormented forever seems ridiculously untrue. But one thing puzzles me: In 1Peter it's written that there are people 'in prison' that died during the time of the flood. Is this literal? Are nonbelievers held in a type of prison till their final destiny, the 'second death' (Revelation 20)? And why would they also be resurrected prior to the second death? Or, does it really even say they'll be resurrected? Is this just inferred?
It doesn't really matter, like Steve said. It doesn't change anything for me. It's just curiosity.
What's the point of an eternal fire if those who are thrown into it aren't gonna be in the lake of fire for eternity? Steve's reasoning here might be using the same logical fallacy that the Calvinists use to defend their "reformed theology".
the Greek word Aionios & Hebrew word Olam which are poorly translated as eternal/everlasting/forever do not mean unending. Aionias means an age and Olam means hidden or concealed. So anytime you see the word eternal or everlasting in your bible, go look at a lexicon and see which word is being used. NT will be Aionios and OT will be Olam. You should instead replace eternal/everlasting/forever with 'for/of/in the age'.
Is that a serious question?
@@user-fc2zb9po8t Yes. Do you not understand the question? What’s the point of an eternal(never ending) fire if those who are thrown into it won’t be thee for eternity? This question is for those who believe in the annihilation view
@@SlavicUA Yes. I understand it perfectly. It’s just so ridiculously nonsensical it shocked me that anyone would actually ask it.
@@user-fc2zb9po8t would you explain why you find it shocking? Steve himself says that usually “forever” means never ending. Although sometimes it just means “for the foreseeable future” or “for a long period of time”. So I ask you, how is it shocking to ask such a question? Go ahead and explain yourself. I don’t get offended that easily
Really? How about covenant theology is as indefensible as the dispensationalism you hate.
He’s not even like swing state republican, he’s staunch
But there is eternal torment in old testimant. Daniel 12:2
Here is Daniel 12: 2. How about point out for me where it mentions eternal torment, O.K.?
✴ _And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt._
@IsaacNussbaum how can a dead man feel anything? They will forever feel the scorn and shame. That doesn't at least seem to imply feelings from a living person to you?
@@Fearl3ss234 I could answer in a number of ways but let me try it this way. Are you suggesting that that verse is all the warning that two-thirds of human existence got? A misleading hint of what is to come for the wicked? Did God _really_ call endless sadistic torture scorn? Did he _really_ liken screams of agony, rolling on forever and ever, shame?
@IsaacNussbaum sounds a lot like the snake in the garden "did God really say..." I have heard a decent defense to this verse, and am curious as to what others say. But so far you haven't answered.
@@Fearl3ss234 I explained that there were several approaches I could take in answering. I could have given an explanation of the verse but my experience has been that people, by and large, do not accept explanations which differ from what they already want to believe. So I chose to ask you to consider what warning would a loving God have given to humanity if eternal conscious torment were a real thing. If I were God (I'm not):
► I would have supplied numerous warnings in plain, straightforward, and unambiguous language.
► I would have worded the warnings in several different ways to guard against misunderstandings and/or people twisting my words out of shape.
► And I would have used multiple messengers to carry the word because just one manuscript might get lost or destroyed.
Did God do any of those things for the first two-thirds of human existence?
who says they can look into hell?
The verse he quoted in 2nd Thessalonian says away. The Greek word apo
In Greek it says away from the presence of the Lord. Apo prosopan
Oops
you speak fluent greek?
@@bigdogboos1
Everybody and my church knows Greek.
We learn 4 times a week.
@@bigdogboos1
All you have to do is download an interlinear Bible and you can check it yourself. He missed the Greek word Apo Which means away from. He said it wasn't there but it is.
You can download interlinear Bible on your phone for free.
Thank you Steve, I invite you to read 'Hope Beyond Hell' by Gerry Beauchemin that I believe is biblical and makes sense of the Calvinism-Arminian debate...
I want ponthi pilath time cross
It is exactly "because" hell is as Christ described!!! Eternal, torment, darkness and weeping etc.
This is why Such a HUGE PRICE WAS PAID. Christ crucified to stop men from going there.
I AM WRITING A BOOK ON HELL. I can assure everyone hell is a time where all those outside of the grace of God will be punished for their sins. When God has delivered a just and holy judgment then he withdraws his gift of life. He WILL NOT GIVE LIFE TO FALLEN MAN! That's why he set up a cherubim with a flaming sword to keep fallen man from eating from the tree of life. If he gave life to those in a state of sin he would forever be allowing sin. Jesus died to END ALL SIN AND MAKE ALL THINGS NEW! I have solutions to all of the Biblical questions regarding this view. Trust me I love God, love his word, and am a very good student, besides hearing God's voice on this issue. Book will likely be called "HELL KNOW"
quote---it is exactly "because" hell is as Christ described!!! Eternal, torment, darkness and weeping etc.-t
Revelation 20:14
(14, 15) , And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.
Eternal as in never to be remembered again.
@@mitchellosmer1293 well that's excellent news for the atheist, Hitler, child molesters etc.. Eventually they just go "poof". I'm kind of simplistic when Jesus (I would say since he IS God) would know more about it than moder theologians says the fire is never quenched and the worn never dies is pretty clear. In Matthew (if memory serves) used the same word to eternal heaven as eternal hell. Juxtapose Revelation with Isaiah 66:24.
Mitchell that is a GREAT START IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF GODS WORD! THANK GOD YOU ARE A FAITHFUL CHRISTIAN. Now as you grow in your interpretive skills you will practise such things as to STUDY THE LANGUAGE OF THE PROPHETS THROUGH THE WHOLE OLD TESTAMENT! Now understand that Jesus is a Jewish prophet and uses prophetic language. You will see again and again the words eternal or everlasting are many time NOT TRANSLATED THAT WAY LITERALLY. For instance the Word saysthe the smoke from sodom and Gomorrah goes up eternally. I've been to Israel a few times and each time the smoke was NOT going up. This is step #1. If you are unwilling to study this foundationally then you cannot interpret Jesus as a Jewish prophet. This is context ,context, context,. (Language, culture, etc) If you begin here I will gladly give you more steps to understand the Word more deeply and contextually. Even you know, that Jesus said to pluck out your eye if it causes you to sin. It is clear. He did not say think about plucking out your eye but to pluck it out but you have not understood this plain language as being literal. In the same way you can rightfully understand the Word and Hell. I am honest, intelligent and most of all a servant of God who wants to glorify him in ALL that I do. I try to study at least 10 hours per week and sometimes study 20 or 30 hours. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved. I pray that you continue in your zeal for the Lord. @@mitchellosmer1293 OD
Wow! That was so deep. Smh. Try thinking about that a bit more.
I'm honestly thinking there might be a different view not discussed here and that's a scenario where it isn't necessarily eternal torment, but merely being eternally separated from God. So they're not necessarily tormented all this time, but they're simply separate from God which is what they wanted because they rejected him.
As for the third view.... I like it, but I don't think its true. I think the point is that God's patience has its limits and he made it clear that the limit is once they have their physical death. But if it is true we'll find out eventually.
It sounds somewhat similar to the Roman Catholic concept of Purgatory, but in this case the Purgatory is everyone who did not die within God's grace being refined and required to confess their sins after death.
--Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
--John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Why would Gods patience be so short? Is this how you treat your children?
What about Luke 16: 19-31 rich man and Lazarus.
*"What about Luke 16: 19-31 rich man and Lazarus."* What about these Scriptures?
● Sinners will vanish (Psalms 37: 20).
● They will be no more (Psalms 104: 36).
● They will be destroyed (Matthew 10: 28).
● They will burn completely up (Luke 3: 17).
● They will be reduced to ashes (2 Peter 2: 6).
● They will be consumed (Hebrews 10: 26-27).
● They will die (Romans 8: 13; Romans 20: 35-36).
● They will be like smoke that vanishes (Psalms 68: 2).
● They will be like water that flows away (Psalms 58: 7).
● They will perish (be utterly destroyed; consumed) (John 3: 16).
@@IsaacNussbaum that's metaphoric language. Luke 16:19-31 shows conscience existence after the body dies.
@@davidstamburski9487 The story of the rich man and Lazarus cannot be a literal event, David. Here is why. In it Abraham says that Moses and the prophets are sufficient warning of hell. And yet Moses and the prophets never say anything about hell. In fact, there is no mention of eternal conscious torment anywhere in the Old Testament.
@@IsaacNussbaum well I would say the book of Jude talks about Sodom and Gomorrah and they are suffering the Vengeance of eternal fire. Remember Cora and the people with them the Earth opened up and swaddled them. I don't believe Luke 16 is a parable because personal pronouns are used like Abraham. Either way it's still teaches conscious existence after death
@@davidstamburski9487 *"...Sodom and Gomorrah ... are suffering the Vengeance of eternal fire."* Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of eternal fire . . . past tense; over and done with. Here see for yourself: ✴ _... the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and_ DESTROYED _them all._ (Luke 17: 29; NIV)
Now compare that with 2 Thessalonians 1: 9.
✴ _…when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal_ DESTRUCTION…. (ESV)
Hell is forever… it’s not temporal 💯
hell----Sheol--grave
Wow! So profound SMH
neither
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. This metaphor seems to imply the body is only alive because of the spirit of life (Pneuma) that exists because God gave a piece of His eternal nature.We were created in his image and the Bible says God is Spirit. The real us is spirit. Adam did not die in the DAY he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So obviously this must be talking about sin nature and why we need to be born again and be a new creation. He was created perfect and pure, a spirit being in God’s own image. So if he didn’t die the DAy he disobeyed, how can it mean man ceases to exist? Back to James 2 as my anchor in my comment. The body cannot exist without the spirit so his spirit didn’t cease to exist in the DAY he disobeyed even though corrupted so why would it not exist int he future. He still had pneuma but now it was not pure. I don’t know. I went through these same things looking at these verses and came back to it being forever punishment. I would love to believe that people just cease to exist. I knew someone the minute they thought the Bible didn’t teach forever torment never evangelized again. No reason to.
I agree. It is a waste of time. But we are to obey God and still do it. I get that. Why fear God if you just cease to exist? Why not go kill whoever you feel like When you feel like it. Or ruin millions of lives by raping and committing adultery and ruing families and so on. Many people just don’t care. And to wait 10, 100, 1000, 2000 years for the day of judgment just for Jesus to say, “I told you so” is rather narcissistic of the Lord don’t you think? Seems silly to just sizzle them.
And why preach the gospel if one merely ceases to exist. There is no fear of a righteous holy God if that were true. 😮😮 origin talked about “initiates” too. Was he in some form of freemasonry? Just something I remembered.
Soul and spirit are two different things. The soul is connected to the spirit. Back to Adam, Adam did not die the DAY he disobeyed. So did God lie? So he should have died but didn’t? Origin’s belief was very strange because who wouldn’t while suffering submit to God then? Back to no purpose of preaching the gospel because one can receive God in hellfire when they realize they are suffering. Who wouldn’t?
Did God not do everything possible for someone to not die in their sins? Do not people reject God of their own decision and condemn themselves? Their state is eternal being a spirit being but because they died in that state of rebellion against God they cannot change that state they are in. Is it God’s fault? No. does it mean God didn’t love them? Of course He did.
--Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
--John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
@@mitchellosmer1293 are not these passages talking about the flesh only? Adam's flesh was only that-flesh until God breathed pneuma into his flesh. There is no purpose in a day of judgment if people just cease to exist.
Just a pity that the bible nowhere says that we have an eternal spirit
@@JoBo301 third chapter of genesis
@@sacredcowtipper1378 tell me more
Jesus never mentioned hell, the word did not exist then. He spoke of Gehenna which is a valley outside Jerusalem.
No...parable of Lazarus and the rich man tells us there is a hell.
@@markanthony3275 *"parable of Lazarus and the rich man tells us there is a hell."* No, it doesn't do any such thing.
@@IsaacNussbaum It certainly does and so did Jesus when he said it was better to cut out an eye or cut off a hand and go to heaven maimed than go to hell " Where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched" . Wait a minute!!!! FIRE IS NEVER QUENCHED ??? Isn't that what was described in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man??? You are just another person who can't read or accept the plain meaning of scripture.
@@markanthony3275 The word "hell" attributed to Jesus is, in the original, "Gehenna." Gehenna was and is a valley southwest of Jerusalem. It is not a place of eternal conscious torment. Moreover, unquenchable fire in the Bible does not refer to eternal conscious torment (see below).
✴ _“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat_ *[ their dead bodies ]* _will not die, the fire that burns_ *[ their dead bodies ]* _will not be quenched….”_ (Isaiah 66: 24, NIV, amplified)
@@IsaacNussbaum I see, you're one of those people who has no understanding of when the Bible is literal and when it points to something as a symbol. Israel is often depicted as a fig tree, or an olive tree, or a vine. Does that mean Jesus came to save plants??? Duh! Of course not! Okay, Jesus said hell was a place where the fire was never quenched and the worm never died...in the valley you mentioned...did they constantly burn garbage there and was all the rotten food full of worms all the time? Duh! Of course it was...and Jesus pointed to it as a symbol of the REAL thing. And yes, Hell is a physical place where people will go in their bodies. The Bible says everyone is resurrected and given eternal bodies...some to eternal heaven and some to eternal hell. Stop buying into and making up all this crap...read the Bible!
You can’t really teach any view of hell without the original language. When you use the original language you can see from the creation story until the end of revelation hell as we have been taught does not exist in scripture. The word used (wrongly) for eternity is aonis which means age long, not eternal. An age has a beginning and an end. The end time punishments of God are temporal and redemptive and he will draw all men to himself.
Heretic. Romans 3:3-4 KJV
He said he didn’t know for sure what he believed how is he a heretic?🙄
I never heard a more confusing presentation on Hell than this one. God isn’t a God of confusion and there’s so much confusion here.
That would imply that you know every interpretation of the Bible. To be honest, I am and probably will be Studying and learning until I pass away. What I do confirm, is that the Bible is the word of God, even though I can't interpret it 💯%.. I'm just a Berean, believing, but still trying to understand.
than make is cyrstal clear for us all please?
What else could be more confusing then commanding us not to kill and then ordering people to kill?
He is giving people false hope, regarding their love ones😥
@@marciarichardson7480, Steve did not present any hope for the unredeemed loved ones. Hope would be that they might be saved. Rather, he did state that the Scriptures do not indicate that the soul is inherently immortal. Thus, when the unbeliever dies, he/she suffers the Lake of Fire, according to their works (Rev. 20), and they then perish as the Scriptures repeatedly say.
if it's not Eternal conscious torment (ECT) it's a doctrine of serpents
Why do you say that?
@@jeffallandayI don't know anyone that would know more about Hell the God. Jesus taught it was eternal, darkness, worm never dies, fire is not quenched etc..
Strange how no one talks about heaven not being eternal.
@@Manofwar7 --Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19---In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--Psalm 146:4----His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
--Ecclesiastes 12:7--Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---James 2:26--For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6--Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
--John 3:13--And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Psalm 6:5--For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
---Ecclesiastes 9:5-For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Hell--grave--sheol
Oh wow! Where do you get that ridiculous view??
Jesus Mentions Hell and Destruction in 46 Verses!
Jesus' words prove hell is eternal:
• “everlasting fire”
• “everlasting punishment”
• “eternal condemnation”
• “the fire that shall never be quenched”
• “their worm does not die”
• “unquenchable fire”
Matthew 5:22
Matthew 5:29-30
Matthew 7:13,19
Matthew 8:12
Matthew 10:28
Matthew 13:30
Matthew 13:40
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 13:49-50
Matthew 18:8
Matthew 18:9
Matthew 22:13
Matthew 24:51
Matthew 25:30
Matthew 25:41
Matthew 25:46
Mark 3:29
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 3:17
Luke 12:5
Luke 12:46-48
John 5:29
John 15:6
Revelation 21:7-8
Additionally:
Revelation 14:9-14
Revelation 20:10-15
That looks like proof of fire. You gotta read hell into it with some good ol' eisegesis.
@@carlosa4852 Proof of “everlasting punishment,” “eternal condemnation,”
• “the fire that shall never be quenched” and “their worm does not die” - not just "everlasting fire."
"ALL LIARS," who twist God's word, teaching fables to appease "itching ears" will be thrown into the lake of fire: “HE WHO OVERCOMES SHALL INHERIT all things, and I will be his God and he shall BE MY SON. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and *ALL LIARS* shall have their part in the LAKE WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)
“For The TIME WILL COME when THEY WILL NOT LISTEN to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves TEACHERS AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS; and will TURN AWAY THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH, and turn aside to *FABLES*” (2 Tim. 4:3-4)
The church lacks holiness now, and most are going to hell because the trickery of men in craftiness after the wiles of error.
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; 12 for the PERFECTING of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 *UNTIL WE ALL* ATTAIN to the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a FULL GROWN man, to THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST; 14 that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every WIND OF DOCTRINE [“once saved, always saved” (OSAS), “it’s hard to lose one’s salvation,” “only believe,” don’t have to actually abide in Christ to be “in Christ,” etc.], by the TRICKERY of men , in CRAFTINESS, after the WILES OF ERROR; [repeating the OSAS greatest hits verses over and over, taken out of context; ignoring the 80 that tell the truth] 15 but speaking TRUTH in love, we may GROW UP IN ALL THINGS INTO HIM, who is the head, Christ; 16 from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in LOVE.
When the truth is taught we'll have real Christianity to the point that the world will know (Jesus' prayer in John 17)!
The eternal fire is one that consumes completely for eternity and can't be quenched (put out). Which is why Sodom and Gomorrah in Jude 7 are set forth as examples of those that suffer that fire. Hell is not a biblical word, hades and gehenna are used. But they don't mean the same thing.
@@michaelnewzealand1888 The fire does keep burning, which does burn flesh, but the flesh grows back. See Mary Kathryn Baxter's description in "Divine Revelation of Hell." The worm also doesn't die, Jesus said, which eats the flesh.
You are in way over your head, Jeff. You don't understand the subject whatsoever. Please stop posting until you do understand, O.K.?
God is a Texan conservative on punishment
This is why we need to study and believe our KJV Bible and ignore liars like this. This guy also ignores the divorce and adulterous remarriage topic I see. Imagine that.
I prefer the original languages of the Bible, the English is not quite as good.
Here is one of my favorite verses from the KJV: 🔥 [the unsaved] _shall be punished with everlasting DESTRUCTION . . . DESTRUCTION . . . DESTRUCTION …._ (2 Thessalonians 1: 9
Kjv? What a ridiculous claim!
@@IsaacNussbaum yes it seems to be very clearly saying everlasting destruction not everlasting conscious torment, Nor temporary destruction. The eternal fire destroys eternally. God is a consuming fire.
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Well said, Michael. Thank you for doing so.
This guy emphatically stated there were no more verses in The Bible about hell.
Well golly geee, What is this....
Luke 16:23-26
[23]And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25]But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26]And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
He said there was not conscious torment
Yet clearly this guy's conscious and being tormented.
And he didn't know whether there was separation yet it clearly states that I was separated by a great chasm.
Why are these people allowed to stand up in front of a pulpit and preach?
this man knows the bible 10000x more than you do. why are people like you allowed to make comments on youtube videos? Go read his book, he makes the case for and against all the views. he discusses all those verses. i think you need to loosen up just a little bit and start thinking instead of parroting.
Steve did say there were over 400 verses. Obviously he didn’t give all of them. But it’s good that you are thinking and researching and putting this out there. The person who said you shouldn’t be allowed to comment I believe is dead wrong. We should discuss these things. That’s how we learn.
@@jesseleepeterson4991 yep
I was personally present for this "lecture" and while this verse is not addressed in this video, it was addressed live. (I cant remember if it was during the Q&A afterwards or while we were talking informally) He also addresses it in his book.
@@loriconsidine7164 How convenient of him to leave it out of the lecture.
It went against everything he said.
Obviously the man in hell was not consumed and destroyed.
I just stick to what Jesus taught in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
Then the Lake of Fire...Rev 20:14-15.
Perpetual torment... Rev 20:10
1) The story of the rich man and Lazarus does not teach anything about eternal torment. The setting of that story is between death and judgment, not in eternity.
2) The Lake of Fire is the "second death," not a change of address.
3) The perpetual torment in Revelation 20 is promised to three beings only, the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. We dare not extend it beyond those three.
@IsaacNussbaum 1.. it links to Rev 20 and therefore relevant.
2.. yep lake of fire is change of address for the Hell side.
3.. what's good for the goose is good for the gander and all of newfoundland.
@@davidboyer2290 *PART I:* ✴ But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.*” (Revelation 21:8, NIV)
*Thanatos appears 118 times in the NASB. It is translated "death" 112 times.
@@davidboyer2290 *Part II:* I don't see how the fable of the rich man and Lazarus links to Revelation 20. The rich man and Lazarus are not in eternity and the fable does not even pretend to be talking about eternity.
@IsaacNussbaum not a fable... or are you accusing Jesus of lying?
Death and Hell... Paradise and Hades... Lazarus and Richmond.
If you can not see how a teaching of what happens after death has something to do with eternity... then maybe you are not thinking about the same thing the Bible is teaching.
One thing he does not know is that , God gave His people, in The Remnant church , knowledge which few have ! Note brethren : The Remnant church is Gods true church ! With the 3 Angels Messages found in Revelation 14 vss 6 to 12 .. last messages ! Read ..