Who Gets Warglaives - Rogue VS. War DPS Gains & Prio Guide
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
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Let's talk warglaives prio, here's the breakdown.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
01:23 - Warglaives droprate (what is your actual chance of warglaives set)
04:00 - Who benefits more from warglaives (guild goals vs. dps)
08:15 - Guild contributions (this is what you should base warglaives on)
11:10 - Longevity/Alternative items vs glaives
14:08 - PvP advantage
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Music:
Outro - You're The Best by DJ Quads - / djquads
Background - Harris Heller's Streambeats - www.streambeats.com
#WoW #Warglaives #Prio 
Игры
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no one likes rogues
rogues are for pvp
the only argument i would accept for PvP on Glaives is if our resident rogue was the carry for our feral/Prot Paladin to get there resilience spell dmg and tanking weapons.
Actually in that specific case i would even prio the glaives to our rogue, and this is as a Fury Warrior main and Officer in our guild.
Perfect timing. Been thinking about this the past week
Any loot council that seriously considers splitting the first set of glaives would have me insta /gquit. Perfect way to never get a set and also piss off your top melee by screwing both of them over lol.
And in your new guild you will not even get one piece because you are the new guy 😂
Yea if you do that you are a giga clown loot council
To be fair you will be farming this content for a year.
litterally cutting the baby in half if yall know where thats from
@@aaronst.pierre3080 if his math was correct in this video, you are just likely to have one set of warglaives after 50 resets. RNG plays in ofc, but I would never bet on it
The intro is gold lmao
but why does armadillo use dagger?
HAHAHAHAHA Sno you're hilarious. That intro was gas.
Sno I think we're talking about different weapons. I was looking for a video on the rogueglaives.
What a good intro!
It's pretty simply as you stated, it depends on the type of guild you are. What you will see a lot is many non-hardcore guilds copying the supposed meta and going with that. If you are competing for top 10-20 spots, warriors are a no brainer. Otherwise, class should really not matter at all.
Nice video
Brilliant
defintely agree
Our guild has boiled it down to two choices, and we're letting RNG decide between the final two choices.
If the MH drops first, the Rogue gets it. If the OH drops first, the Warrior gets it.
We're a semi-hardcore guild, and we've all been friends since Classic launched, and ultimately it came down to picking favorites. The officers didn't feel it was fair to make this big fat loot choice a personal one, so they picked the top two contenders, and we're going to let fate decide.
why would warrior want off hand first
@@redhatbanditt1181 It's not a matter of want I (the warrior) wants. Of course I'd prefer to get the MH first. But the Rogue gains significantly more DPS from the MH than I do, before the set completes, so given our choice to "let fate decide" in the way we have, that choice made the most sense.
The warrior sim you looked at use the sims "cookie cutter" rampage spec which is inferior to 20/41/0 deathwish. Single target is a wash at best and multi target the warrior will be leagues better.
I’m curious what the dps differences would look like between a rogue with glaives/warrior with alternative bis weapons and a warrior with glaives/rogue with alternative bis weapons. Which combination does more dps overall on both single target and boss/trash dps? Potentially something else to consider if your raid has an equally contributing rogue and fury warrior, which combination of weapons equates to the highest overall dps increase?
if you want to min-max dps you give glaives to the warrior and bench the rogue. i see rogues coming up with all kinds of arguments how glaives are better for them because their 2nd option isn't as good or fast offhand yada yada, completely disregarding the fact that they should not even be in the raid to begin with if you want to optimize it. so how exactly is 'bigger dps increase for rogue on ST' an argument at all? it isn't.
@@luizperez3357 Warrior high copium right there. Imagine raiding without IEA during T6
@@arkeez1181 IEA as the sole argument is bs unless you decide to ignore trash which is in T5 is 50% of the total dmg. Even then on many bosses in T6 you won't have close to 95% uptime on IEA. You really only bring a rogue now for maybe boss parses in heavy warrior/hunter stack or if you already have a good rogue and don't want to replace a good raider.
@@CherryCola55PSN Do you realize that T6 will be the phase where physical dps will super-shine?
Do you realize that armor reduction is exponential, and therefore the more Arpen your raid has, the more valuable your IEA rogue is ?
Come on, you can't compare T5 raids/stuff with T6, it will just be another world. It has always been common sense that T5 is pretty garbage for melee damage dealer, so nothing new here.
You will want rogues for T6 and Sunwell raiding. Just open your eyes
@@arkeez1181 Of course it's not a 1:1 conversion between T5 and T6 trash/boss dmg distribution. But fact is IEA is not gonna be up on trash if even on just one trash mob. The arpen argument is only valid if you look at bosses in a vacuum, yes on bosses IEA is valuable with enough phys dps, but it's only half if not less of the total dmg over the course of a raid.
1:26
grabbing for link to warglaive drop chance chart
Why are drop chances increasing? Isn't it the same chance each time you kill the boss?
yeah but its the chance to drop a set for the entire duration of the number of raids stated
Why would rogues not be main raid group?
And for progress single target was definitely more value.
One question, and I know the drop chances are low, so probably doesn't matter much. But here goes...
2nd glaive pair prio. Our first is going to the GM (rogue). Then we have a fury warrior and rogue, both similar level pumpers, and guild contribution. Who would get the 2nd pair? Automatically warrior because the first already went to a rogue, or disregard this and do the "10% discussion" here as well?
Great vid and awesome content -
BR a podcast enjoyer
I'd do the 10% discussion there yeah - I don't like to just blindly rotate item based on class, glaives are too valuable to do a straight prio 'just because other class got last one'
@@ClassicRoguecraft Fair enough. Thanks for the quick response! Don't think it will be an issue straight away, but nice to have a notion of what the thought process should be.
As a warrior in second position against another rogue (effectively unbiased), you should take into account two things so long as all other aspects equal. I.e Contribution/pumpage.
1) If you're close to p6 Sunwell or in it, consider if you don't have many enhance shamans that the fists in particular and pvp weapons in the phase are equal to or superior to the glaives (considering not a full set, just equipped 1 piece). Two Sunwell fists are arguably better cleave damage given the slow speeds for Warriors.
2) If your guild gets two drops EARLY p3/p4 and the second prior needs to be set. Consider the Offhand isn't desirable for the Fury until the set is complete given it's extreme speed. This is also extremely desirable by the rogue given the energy gain from it. Since it's the set that makes the swords absolutely godlike, I'd let it go rogues if the offhand comes up first for 2nd prio and vice versa for the warrior if the MH shows up.
I mean this is all saying that warrior/rogue are equal in terms of every other metric. I think the warrior gets more out of the Sunwell weapons than the rogue would also.
@@Crey_Rob By that logic rogues have Muramasa and Fel Encrusted Longblade in SWP.
@@ClassicRoguecraft here I am in my guild as a fury warrior and officer trying to present an argument for why our rogues should get a shot at warglaives (the other officers want me to get it first) how did I end up in this bizarre situation arguing against my own best interests.
Why bring a rogue at all
I don’t think the video was clear on this so I have to ask. The 25-100 range you provided for single target favoring rogues, is that INCREMENTAL DPS due to the glaives or total DPS between two classes wielding glaives? Said another way, if warriors are 200 DPS ahead of Rogues without glaives and the incremental difference of adding glaives is a +100 impact to the rogue, the rogues individual DPS is still 100 DPS behind the warrior in net. That’s a hugely impactful consideration if you’re going to go down the road of using numbers to justify the decision. If you’re only presenting the warglaives DPS in a vacuum, you’re gaslighting rogues to make an incorrect argument to their guilds on why they should get priority when you consider everything net.
It is dps due to glaives. Talking about total dps between 2 classes would be silly if the raid intended to bring both from the start already.
aka. it doesn't matter what the starting dps is because you calculate raid gain by the end total dps gained by either class with/without glaives.
EG - if player 1 has 2k dps and gains 200 dps using glaives and player 2 has 1800 dps and gains 250 dps using glaives, the difference in giving it to player 2 is 50 dps gain for the raid (their starting dps doesn't matter unless for some reason you were thinking of only bringing 1 of them to raid).
@@ClassicRoguecraft but whats the dps loss to the raid when one of them g quits over it? 😂
@@ClassicRoguecraft That’s fair, but I think you assumed guilds would be bringing one of each without highlighting that being a basis for the analysis. There’s probably a lot of guilds debating whether to bring a rogue to a raid period. Probably more of a speed run vs parse mindset, but I don’t think that as an underlying assumption should be completely overlooked.
@@72TEHJ the dps difference doesn't matter if your bringing both players. It only matters what dps difference the weapon brings to the raid.
Think we gave the first one the to the War tank last time, they also knew how to dps.
Our rogue is a big pumper and has kept our guild alive and successful, he's getting glaives and we're all hyped for it!!
kept the guild alive for this moment.
means you have shit hunters then :D BM hunters having being out performaning rogues consistently since p1 of tbc. even rogues that have consistent 99 parses
@@Tewty11 he never said the rogue does more dmg then the hunter?!
Oddly enough these Sims are relatively similar as Zhar'doom for ele shamans. Much bigger increase on single target than locks, arcane and fire but on aoe/trash it's better for locks/mages.
Doom prio ele shaman KEKW
@@ashmain3022 check the math, it's a much bigger upgrade over their mh/oh option over all other casters. Spell hit matters my friend.
+44 dps
Spriest +32
Boomkin -9
Arcane Mage -19
Destruction Warlock -33
Affliction lock -33
Fire Mage -37
@@aaronst.pierre3080 idk how you simmed zhardoom as a 33 dps loss for warlocks, but that is some creative accounting
@@aloysius_music compared to the sword (Archimonde) + OH (Rage Winterchill)
@@aaronst.pierre3080 bro I’m all for helping out the support, but there is zero way that your math is correct. I’ve run lock/mage sims for that staff vs tempest and even in the extremely rare cases that you actually use the hit from tempest, the numbers still don’t look like that.
"What type of guild are you?"
We're a "Get xouk glaives guild"
basically an officer or a the raid leader.
I managed to become "the rogue" and it was a lot of work and recruiting on an dying server,
but now I saw the drop chances and I wanna cry. Gonna see 3 Off Hands incoming :'(
@JaceBass bliz has deffs not and probably will not tweek the drops. my guilds cleared Gruul every week since week 2 of bc and we literally only got our second DST last week. its just how luck works.
After all this is consithered, you give it to the rogue with the highest arenarating.
At the beginning, this is not how drop percentages work. Just becouse you do 200 runs doesnt give you 100% chance for any item.
yes ofc - my numbers don't say that at all? It's about your probability calculations, not droprate.
@@ClassicRoguecraft You literally said that at 60 clears there is a 91% chance of getting a SET of warglaives
@@bangomargit yep, do you realize each warglaive is independent drop of the other? Aka mh and oh are separate drop slots
@@ClassicRoguecraft Yes, I do realize they have independent droprates, I played the original TBC. Still, what you said is untrue, there is no 91% probability of any of the glaives dropping after any amount of clears. Since drops are totally RNG, you have the same chance, or pobablity, or w/e on 100th clear then what you had on the first.
@@bangomargit You are confusing probability per roll of a drop vs probably of x event happening after y amount of attempts
Such a dilemma when the possible contenders arent really any contributors but rather the "show-up-and-dps" kind of players. All active, all on the same level, and we are not a hardcore guild.
Easy, let em roll for it. If everything else is equal, let fate decide
Or take bribes, that works too
In that kind of environment rogues should be favored because glaives will provide more benefit for sunwell progression on the rogue.
@@ninjacat2803 if you ignore any kind of human factor, it's just warrior all the way
Warriors contribute in a big way for overall damage...rogues dont. Rogue overall dmg is garbage.
@@qntcats5974 Trash dps is not something that can slow down progression, but boss dps can. Overall damage/trash damage only matters for speedrunning/completion time of the raid. If you care about meeting dps checks in sunwell etc. and have any doubts you''ll 1 shot everything then boss dps is what you should prioritize.
Thing is simple, if you are warrior, Glaives should go warriors, if rogue to rogues, I took a step further and Im maining both
Big brain play
During TBC retail my guild cleaned T6 pretty fast, and we farmed it every week untill the end of the expansion, we didn't drop a *single* Warglaive xD
Ok we actually dropped one off-hand... one week before WotLK went Live...
So yeah when I think that some people are playing rogue or warrior just for those weapons is always amusing.
same thing happened to my guild at the time.... Farmed illidan for a year in original TBC and only got 1 single offhand... 3 weeks before Wrath prepatch 👎
@@dietcokedude Ahahah! I simpathize xD
Are you sure we were not in the same guild? rofl
@@Keilink was your guild vox on spinebreaker?
How I got my legendary bow :( then started playing dk in Wotlk
glaibes
omfg that drop rate :( im second in prio rip
did you use the warrior sword spec for single target or the common spec which is being used currently...cause that's more than 100dps there. fast OH favors the fury sword spec by a lot
Do we know if this spec will be threat capped by losing improved berserker stance
I used optimal specs given to me by fight club warriors to sim
@@ClassicRoguecraft there is a spec that trades 5/5 improved berserker stance (10% AP increase, 10% less threat) for 5/5 sword spec (5% for extra attack after hitting target with sword) that will sim MUCH higher than the default when using glaives. My concern with this though, is threat output because 10% threat is no joke and I already pull a lot of threat as it is. Can't imagine with warglaives and then also giving up 10% more threat reduction.
FWIW: the Sword spec talents adds about +50/+140 DPS, depending on ST or cleave, to a warglaives user in full P2 BIS (simmed with 2 bloodlusts, enhance, survival, feral in group)
@@villmsmusic yeah i literally asked fight club what the best spec and talent was for glaives and used those (also keep in mind the 100 dps number isn't the dps gained but rather the dps differences)
aka. you may gain 200 dps but the dps difference between the two classes is +25 to 100 in those sims
@@villmsmusic we will have druid tanks and threat will be a much smaller issue than it currently is, cause first, they scale really well with gear and 2nd, they wont have to worry about crush immunity.
My raid team is fairly casual, though we did get 10/10 pre-nerfs. we have 2 warriors and 2 rogues. First prio is to the rogue who is an officer and does do a lot of work to keep things running smoothly and raid leads sometimes. I think everyone is happy to give him first prio. Second prio is the second rogue, which is me. I typically out dps the other rogue, but I'm fine with him getting them first. Third prio is to the arms warrior, though he has stated he doesnt really care about them and prefers 2 handers. Fourth is our prot warrior main tank, again, he doesnt really care about them.
But let's be real, with my guild's luck when it comes to melee weapons dropping, I'll be surprised if we see a single glaive drop. I didn't see a Spiteblade until the week before phase 2 and the other rogue just bought a Blinkstrike because he didnt get a drop either. We got our first Talon this week, which I didnt win.
Soooo hunter prio
Imagine if Mirlor gets Warglaives week 2 ^^
nah he's bad at pve
@@tiki4rafiki390 haha have you seen his logs u pleb
Everyone knows how it is now days, the Weapons getting the Person who pays the most to the GM..
simple as that..
Ive been in guilds where we gave to Warrior and another cycle where we gave it to a rogue. From a RL perspective, the rogue literally never had threat issues. However quite frequently pur Warrior would be threat capped and have to chill. It would happen more times than not on low armor bosses.
Yeah the threat issue is clearly missing in this video and should be a major subject, especially in dad or "lambda" guilds where tanks are not pumping max TPS.
@@arkeez1181 AT that point you kick the tank and get a better one, He would also be holding back all of the ranged casters and warlocks would have to spend time breaking threat etc.
Not really an argument.
Warglaives go to whichever of the rogue or warrior does more dps. Nuff said
...You didnt watch the video did you?
@@RJMacReady1 I did, it's just fun to watch so many rogue players try to make a case when reality not a lot of rogues get into raids in the first place. GDKP it is, boys.
@@rubengonzalez3222 Rogues always high on copium, but tbh if the rogues main focus is pvp and he's showing up every week and an actual owner in pve too give that shit to him if the warriors are doing dogshit that's on them
What about the fact that there’s finally a Legendary weapon that rogues are even considered for prio? Thunderfury was rogue BiS but would never be considered for prio over your first 3-4 warriors for bindings. And now all of a sudden rogue actually get something that will make them shine in a game that they are already struggling to stay competitive with other classes and people want to give the warrior priority again? The warrior should be running as arms anyway to help the raid. When my BF isn’t on CD I out DPS our warriors. I just have to wait for that cleave every 2 minutes. But when it’s up, I have to hit evasion and pray because I’m ripping and topping damage for that pull.
Lol
and then warriors go into WOTLK with shadowmourne/frostmourne prio again
the warrior should be runnning as arms? if you run less than 2 physical groups, arms is less raiddps than fury and the difference between the 2 is minor with 2 physical groups. if you want to optimize raid comp, you should not run a rogue lmao.
if you think that tanks getting prio on TF in classic or rogues struggling in TBC should be a legit argument for them to receive glaives then idk what to tell you, that's just copium and nothing else. cool story about topping meter ever 2 minutes, rogues are still awful on overall compared to fury.
@@luizperez3357 rogues have way higher burst damage on 1-2 targets and the overall dmg on a single target is higher than warriors. So the only thing you have going for you is that you can dps the trash packs real good with warglaives. Sure trash packs take a lot of time but single target boss dps on fights like muru or brutallus are way more important
@@soymilkdrinker2514 overall dmg on single target is higher for rogues? Bro rogues haven’t beaten warriors on any boss yet
whoever pays more will get the loot.
bing bong beng statistics
#
Bro love your rogue content but tbcgg has some pretty wack bis lists for a lot of the classes
Er that's not my site - that website is run by someone else. I have nothing to do with wowtbcgg
We’ve got two rogues. If the one who’s a complete dbag gets even 1 I’m out. 🤷♂️😂
hunter prio
420th like boyyy
good video again
I think the potential for threatcapping as warrior could be a factor. it won't happen for the rogue or you can at least easily counter it but we'll see how this plays out in P3+
In our guild I expect the glaives go to the rogue for all mentioned reasons but it's not a 100% given just very likely.
As I am said rogue, that makes me happy obviously but let them drop first before we party :)
If we give it to our fury I'd be ok, even though he's not a good player he's an amazing dude, so I won't shed a tear, it would just suck for pvp
never give a glaive to a warrior over a rogue.
Throught the game warrs have slow offhand, game shows u that warglaives are made for rogue. End of story 😁
if you don't know about game mechanics... sure
@@demonwares Looks like you are the one not knowing the game mechanics here... :D
@@demonwares how do games mechanics favor warr over rogue on this mate ? 😂
@@demonwares sorry but a rogue will always benefit more from a fast off hand due to poison procs and energy gains from the talent
@@popamihnea6695 just because they benefit more from the weapons does NOT disregard the fact that they are THE WORST dps in the game, and warriors are one of if not the best melee dps in the game...
Stop..
Why is a rog in a 25m raid?
Its not even war prio its just the only class in the raid that can use them.
Want to show me your 99 avg? Otherwise stfu
Rogue 100% benefits more than warrior statistically speaking as haste by far is more important to that class than any other class. White damage is the main source of rogue damage especially in raids... with that being said thou, if you got a dedicated fury warrior that has pulled his weight and is always there then they also deserve it.
It is a question of style. If alliance, it is Gnome rogue. If horde, it is UD rogue. If you don't have such a player, you vendor the items.
pvp should not be a minor factor tbh
Well it is unfair cuz Warriors dont PvP with them so yea... (and im a rogue main)
@@popamihnea6695 It's not exactly unfair, more context is needed though. I'm saying this as a fury warrior as well. But if the rogue is pushing rating (not plebing around on low rating) it would be completely troll for a warrior to take the first set of glaives. It shouldn't even be a question between the rogue or warrior in that instance.
@@BigpoppaEU nobody cares about pvp prio in an exclusively pve guild. what does pushing rating even mean? you can get rank 1 without glaives, work on your play rather than worrying about loot.
@@luizperez3357 Hence why I said context is required, which includes how your guild operates...You're just arguing for the sake of arguing rather than actually reading what was put.
The counter to your point about an exclusively pve guild is no one cares about exclusively pve guilds in a game where the pve content is a walk in the park. It's also not about "rank 1" it's the fact that a warrior who pvps will use this item once a week and stick in his bag until the next raid... the rogue won't and will actually use it to climb rating which gets a hell of a lot more use out of the item in a more competitive environment. You know... following the context of the original point.
As for "stop caring about loot" isn't that exactly what I'm doing by accepting I'm second on the item that might not drop a second time? Like I said, I've stated this as a warrior main, I'm not a rogue.
as ever a great video. BUT are you wearing makeup for the camera?
nope, i have no idea how to wear makeup, although that would actually be normal in korea if I did
i think you really under value the available items for rogues vs warrior. Excluding warglaives, rogues will get 1 potential weapon upgrade in T6, and 1 potential waepon upgrade in sunwell. Warriors have 7 from T6 alone...
He said that in the video though
well your raid group is probably going to only have 1 rogue max, and then maybe 1 dps warrior if theyre lucky, so reasonable you're going to be deleting warglaives more than you have a problem with people fighting over them
erm no.
3rd
2nd 😔👍
First
Rogues are a coward class played by people who cant commit to a fight. Cowards should be shamed, not given loot.
You probably got your world buffs taken weekly by rogues, huh.
@@ninebreaker8 you probably get scared of pvp so require a means to run when you get bested, huh?
@@qntcats5974 Part of my class is using my toolkit and abilities. You sound like you just get outplayed and refuse to adapt. What?
@@ninebreaker8 yea, because the kits are balanced in pvp for the post tbc patch blizz is using in classic... It's a care bear pvp class like hunters. At least you admit to playing with the bumpers up lol.
@@qntcats5974 you're not a good player
4th
Imagine bringing a rogue to a raid
Imagine being a guild that struggles with content even though they min max.
We killed all content pre nerf and did it even with 2-3 rogues
@@popamihnea6695 hes a moron dw about him lol
Rogue deal more damage to a single target?Are you serious? Dude check the logs rogue is rubbish even in 1 target...
you realize we're talking about +dps delta here right? As in the +dps gained from glaives vs no glaives - not the final dps number
the rogues get em, no question about it, why are we even discussing it?
Because warriors are just better in every way, many good guilds don’t even bring a single rogue because even with improved expose armor considered, a warrior will contribute more overall dps than a rogue
@@tomthame1039 warrs are fkn trash
@@markuskohler6121 Found the avg rogue player
War>rogue end of discussion.
Warriors dumpster on rogues so hard it's not even funny, rogue overall damage is laughable compared.
Anyway the point is moot since serious guilds do not bring rogues into raids.
everything you say here are based on this speed clear or parse meta. most guild out there are not hardcore like that, ppl actually just enjoy playing the game with their guildies. if we are looking at these boomer guilds, glaives should go to rogues 100% of the time, just due to the lore and history alone. warrior have thunderfury, shadowmourne, etc as their identity weapons. rogues is just glaives. classic is not just about efficiency, it about the ppl that play it. i think that side of the story is completely missing in this video