Episode 13: Fire Systems in Race Cars
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- We continue our series of videos looking at 3 generations of racing cars/touring cars.
In this episode we have a look at the fire prevention systems that are onboard cars from the 1990's, 2000's and 2010's/now.
Some footage used is courtesy of Blend Line TV. Jump on their RUclips@BlendLineTV and Facebook channels and show them support, they are fantastic supporters of Grass Roots Motorsport!
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I personally didn't take any notice of the comments and particularly anything negative. Those of us that have followed motorsport for a long time know how invested you've been in helping your Dad's team and including your understanding of how everything works. You'd be the last person that wouldn't do what's possible to avoid fire damage to a race car. Nice video Jack.
Cheers Graham, appreciate the kind words!
Top level cars should still have a hand held extinguisher. Your instance at Townsville is a perfect example , that long time you were waiting at least you could have at least kept it under control until they arrived. Love the channel
I think the issue becomes, in the event of a significant accident, a quick release extinguisher is just not a safe item to have in the cabin of the car, as it can easily become dislodged and cause significant injury, unless there's another form of safety to hold it in place, which reduces the ability to get at it in a hurry. Still a good idea in theory, but I dare so an injury occured at some point which is why it was removed in the first place
100%
Yeah i think there was a big push to get less removable stuff out of the cabin. Notice the fire bomb in the 2003 VY is mounted under the floor? LP didn’t want it in the cabin!
I spent 10 years competing in New Zealand National 4x4 trials, Our reg stipulated that we had to have 1.8 Kg of dry powder or better which could be made up of 2x900gm extinguishers. I always carried a 2 litre aqueous foam, preferred foam to dry powder. I always maintained that by the time 900gms started to get the fire under control they then ran out. Yes MASSIVE THANKS to all the vollies that allow motorsport events to take place
Aqueous Foam for the win.
Well done mate. I did an install video on the fire system in my drag car. After watching a mates race car burn to the ground, I wasn’t going to drive mine without one.
I remember 95 Bathurst the Enforcer and your Dad last lap, Jack being a young lad crying in the back ground knowing your Dad going to win the great race from last to 1st go the Mighty Holden VS ..
Thanks for the explanation Jack, on why you didn't hit the firebomb.
I was a bit taken aback when watching, that you lifted the bonnet so far to let the marshals at the fire. I always was told to only lift bonnets, hatches, doors etc enough to let the hose in, otherwise you are feeding oxygen to the flames. My immediate thought while watching, was you were going to be hit by a flash of fire as air got in - luckily it didn't flare much and you live to drive another day.
It was initially a very, very small fire. I knew it wasn't being fuelled by petrol or oil, it was just burning the carbon fibre airbox.
Thanks for the insight Jack. I just wish that commentators would not whinge about drivers having to put the fire out. Maybe those commentators might change their mind if they were flagging and only had a polyestor shirt on and see how they would rather a driver with a fireproof race suit on fight the fire! Having been involved with 4 fires in club racing, its not a good feeling to go and save someones pride and joy with a fire extinguisher, polyestor shirt and adrenilin! But you do it because we are all passionate about our sport and trying to help out!
Great videos. Thanks very much. Cheers.
Outstanding videos jack. Keep them coming mate.👍
Well done Jack. Like you said Motorsport does not happen without the fire Marshalls ot the Flagies. I think 99% of the comments were from people that sit in the lounge and are not involved in the sport and would not have a clue what goes on at a race meeting. Some of the comments made by certain people about the Marshalls is pretty disgusting. People saying that they need to loose weight etc. Everyone has to remember that these Marshalls and Flagies do this gig on a voluntary basis and for no money. You did a great job Jack and well explained. I think that you are a expert here not like the people sitting behind their keyboards. Cheers Mate.
Cheers Mark and you're right. It's easy to criticise from the couch! I mentioned it in another reply, i'll mention it again because i can, its worth pointing out that when i race sports sedan or super2 i'm also a volunteer! Just happens to be driving, but still have to pay my way, take time off work etc. so we're in it together!
Admire your respect for other peoples pride and joy Jack, keep up the vids.
Thanks!
Great run through of how it all works & what was burning in Townsville. It looked like a big Fuel fire from the outside. Glad no one was hurt. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻🙃🙃
Yeah definitely not a big fuel fire. When the engine is switched off theres no fuel pumping at all. Carbon Fibre was burning and it's quite flammable!
@@perkinsengineering
Did not realise carbon fibre was that farmable. When it was burning I thought wow must of broken a fuel line & pumped a lot of fuel into the valley before the engine was shut off. Scary moment.
Well done Jack. Keep up the great work.
I applaud your effort in these events. I did the CAMS training years back before it was MA around marshalling and fire training and I though it was total BS that you were made to stand there in an event where someone could be injured / on fire / in need of help. Even if you assessed it as safe to enter the track we were told we were not allowed to enter the track / fight a fire / help someone until race control had the area under control and we go the OK over radio to do it. It really comes down to how quickly race control get things under control. IMHO any fire should be red flagged
Jack well said - thank you for the Marshall’s recognition - Fire is scary I’ve been there - you did a great job - Regards
Disregarding the Townsville incident this video was still very well put together and a great credit to you and the content you are sharing. Absolutely loving the content.
Regarding Townsville......its pretty easy to make some comments from behind a keyboard or phone. Feel you have addressed it perfectly, well said.
Can't wait to see more great content. Do you think you would be able to do a walk around some Sport Sedan stuff?
Cheers and thank you. I'm not currently involved with the Sports Sedan, and Perkins Engineering never really has been involved, so at this stage we haven't planned on any video content with them, but we may look at it in the future 😊
Thanks Jack great work, I hope the VY and VF are keeping each other company 😉 😜, I’m glad your ok from fire and you are doing a great job commentating too. Also nice t shirt 😉
Haha cheers, you can get one of these t-shirts online: www.perkinsengineering.com.au
Great work Jack, just like your old man telling it like it is..... I to appreciate the volunteers as without them we have no racing but I was watching what happening live and too was yelling at the TV where are the Marshall’s!!!!. Lucky everyone was safe and hopefully everyone can learn from this rather than arguing.........
Well done Jack.
Thanks Scooter, it's worth pointing out that when I'm racing Sports Sedan or Super2, i'm also a volunteer, paying my own way, taking time off my real job etc.! Cheers Jack
That Facebook post didn't appear to me that you were blaming anyone, I simply read it as a disappointment on the day, nothing more.
We as a society seem to be very offended by anything people say these days. Anyway keep up the great insight videos and best of luck on the track for your next outing...
Thanks Pete. Exactly right, it's hard to watch a car burn and be happy about it. Just a disappointing situation for us and like i said, not aimed at anyone! Cheers
I must say that the VF looks awesome. Thanks for sharing Jack and keep up with the good work.
Cheers!
Great insight thanks jack 👍
No problem 👍
Those lifeline 360 are a neat setup.
Awesome pod jack keep up the great work
You are doing a great job Jack good upload after Townsville 😄😄😁 really loving you insight into supercars
Great video Jack, thanks for explaining it all to clear up the misconceptions.
When i was a Marshall in the 90's we wore cotton overalls and were expected to jump the fence and fight a vehicle fire. Safety is most important but maybe they should think about allocating 1 firey at each flag point with fire suit on.
Yeah not a bad idea, there may not be enough firey's at some of the longer circuits, like Bathurst?
Great video, thanks for giving your view of the incident.
Great work Jack, is there any chance hoodies will be added to the product list?
LP doesn't like hoodies! But definitely considering them, stubby holders and another style of cap!
Great job, Jack. You’re a natural.
Cheers 54 MGTF!
Love your honesty. I had seen the report about you not activating the fire bomb system I wondered why . Thanks for the explanation. Could they move or add nozzles in the 888 car if they wanted cheers Jack
Part of the problem with more nozzles is you empty the bomb quicker and that can cause other issues including that from memory i think that the bomb has to last a certain period of time which if it empties quicker you would need a bigger unit and then more weight.
Yeah we looked at the Mercedes GT car currently at Egglestons and their fire bomb nozzles run right down the front of the engine! That's the best part about motorsport, we always learn from every instance!
Jack, do you know where the old Perkins Engineering VL is these days? It would be awesome if you could get your hands on that one and do a resto on it.
Yes, it was in our workshop not that long ago actually. Check out our facebook page! It's been restored by the current owner. It's in 1992 Bob Jane T-Marts livery and we did some work on the car as part of the restoration. Covid permitting, it should be on track this year, hopefully with me behind the wheel!
Well done Jack and well said! Oh yeah by the way, the hats Mate!! We need the hats back online!!🤠 Perkins Engineering
Next week!!!!!! Stay tuned on facebook
Great work Jack no one likes seeing a car no matter type catch fire, luv the show.
I know its not possible to have a suited up fire Marshall at every flag post, but an extinguisher would be handy. That way a driver that is in a suit can knock a fire like that over before it gets out of hand.
Those Guys were really on the Ball.
Good one jack
It’s not their car burning so no rush
I know a lot are volunteers but you are there for a specific reason
And you are required to do that job
Maybe some of them need a bit more vetting
Did they say why they were so slow to jump in with the fire extinguisher and do what they were there to do
I would like to know
The other point to this is what if you were stuck in the car and it was burning 🔥
Would they have been any quicker or eager to help
Lots of good questions here. Unfortunately the car was parked between two different flag points, so we weren't close to any fire extinguisher points. Once the track was safe the firey's were deployed and the fire was out. Felt like it took forever, but it was only a minute or so. It's definitely something that lots of people have raised, thankfully i wasnt trapped in the car and we don't have to go down that path!
i have been a volunteer not a marshall but they all wear the same POLYESTER shirts supplied by super cars. no disrespect to jack and the other drivers, i 'm sure they understand when i say i aint getting near a fire with that on.
Can’t wait to see the amazing looking hrt commodore the restoration looks amazing great work jack
You and me both!
Thanks Jack, love your videos.
Glad you like them!
Great insight Jack!
I thought the cars still had a extinguisher in the cabin for the driver to grab.
CAMS need to address this ASAP.
Never heard it called a fire bomb before. Over here it's called a plumbed in bottle. Lifeline are local to me and I never realised their product made it all the way to Oz. I see the switch box is the later model of switch box (the earlier ones were all red). Also, over here we have 2 points of activation - one inside the car and one outside the car.
Haters are gonna hate mate, keep up keeping up👍🤘
Great content Jack, keep it up.
2 vids in a week. Oh yeah! Thanks mate!!
Can't guarantee that every week 😂
Well done jack
What ‘gas’ are used in the current cars fire suppression systems?
Good video
Legend! Keep the vids coming!
Love to do a tour one day of the work shop Jack
OH&S makes this difficult for us in this day and age, however, once the cars are restored we plan on taking them out somewhere !!! So hopefully, covid permitting, we can do this soon!
Fire surpression systems are cheap insurance. I have one in my daily that I take to the track monthly. 1 squirter at my feet, and 5 in the engine bay. One in each corner and one top and centre above the engine.
Well said .
Yet another great video.
A couple of questions - given the primary cause of engine fires in race cars are either component failure or crash damage, do you think that a fire suppression system that doesn’t work (in your opinion) when there is accident damage, is probably not fit for purpose? Second question, why do you think Eggleston have the nozzles so far back in their cars?
In my view, I see fire suppression systems as being similar to applying first aid to a casualty. A first aid-er may occasionally single-handedly save a life, but their primary job is to control the situation until proper assistance arrives in the form of paramedics. I’ve worked with gear that has fire suppression installed my whole working life, and I certainly would have been smashing that button. I wouldn’t want to be explaining to my boss why I didn’t and their gear burnt to the ground. It’s always easy to say that in hindsight, but especially given it’s a gas system, and there’s not the worry of creating the huge mess for the team that a foam or powder system generates, all the more reason to discharge it IMO.
Thanks again for the additional explanation.
Hi Chris, I think the fire systems serve their purpose. If theres cabin fires or under bonnet fires with minimal damage they would work fairly well.
Eggleston Motorsport are customers of Triple 8 Race Engineering and the placement of fire extinguisher nozzles is done by the car builders, 888. They would be in perfect position for a fire towards the rear of the engine and indeed if the bonnet was sealed down, any under bonnet fire would probably be extinguished ok.
At the time people make split second decisions. I've also been driving the John Deere header during harvest and had to attend to a couple of header fires, where split second decisions can determine the fate of $500,000 equipment.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but i'm still convinced the fire bomb would've been in-affective in this particular instance. Perhaps less experience and mechanical knowledge would force you to let off the extinguisher!
Thanks for watching.
Mate, just hit the fire button no matter what, even if the fire suppression system wasn’t to your liking, anything is better than nothing!
Thanks for the feedback
Makes you wonder some days. All that money that went into the fire suppression system and a cheap extinguisher would've done the job.
Hence why cheap race cars around the world still use them.
Thankyou
Hi didnt you also have a electrical fire happen on the larry tower of power setup .
Haha yeah I did! Didn't push the bomb that day either, because it was during the Bathurst 1000 and I was hoping we could get back out in the race!!!
Was a little surprised at the race to see you open the bonnet but I think you explained that pretty well. Didn’t like how the incident went back to highlighting the fact the fire bomb wasn’t activated and my feeling is they did that to deflect attention from the fact it took that long to access a fire extinguisher and in this day and age that wasn’t acceptable and needs addressing. Perhaps it would be a good idea to mount an extinguisher in the car like the early ones so the driver can put out a small fire like the one on the weekend but it could also introduce the potential of a flying projectile in the event of an accident. Don’t know what the answer is but there needs to be more fire stationed crews around the circuit to start with
I guess I opened the bonnet understand what was actually happening, if the fire was on something loose i would've been able to remove it from the car and watch it burn on the ground beside the car!
The extinguishers now days are much better than the old CTC ones
The worst V8SC fire i can recall was around 2000, Paul Morris ( Big Kev Commodore ) and Mark Larkham ( Mitre 10 Falcon ) NOT GOOD!!
Yeah that was nasty! That's what happens when the fuel cell ruptures...
in all honhesty, considering the risk to the drivers and the cost of the cars, the supression systems seem rather inadequate. could a a system, specified by the govering bodies as are other components be supplied to each team. install as you wish except for specified nozzle placement? that way all cars will neither gain or loose weight advantage by weight of type of system? so a far larger and more effective system could be carried? a question. if the fire suppresion sytem has done it's job but the driver can't get out does it deplete the oxygen level in the cabin enough to effect the driver?
The suppression systems do work pretty well, especially for cabin fires or an under the bonnet fire where there's minimal damage, for example, if a fuel line fell off and there wasn't any crash damage, they would probably work quite well. I'm not able to answer all of your questions, but i'm sure some of these areas will be addressed moving forward. Cheers
@@perkinsengineering thanks for getting back to me. i'm enjoying the series and always look forward to new episodes. just as i do, i'm sure you will always have particular little phases or terms that came from dad. my father always over engineered everything. his supercar would weigh about 3000kg. so he would say to me, the word adequate represents a compromise. lol. so sorry, i can't help it but i like to question everything. i really hope that your channel helps to give supercar fans that passion added by understanding the gear. i also like the fact you always do a good job of the show not just tell. thanks again, bill.
ON Ya Jack
I notice that regardless of whats installed on the cars it never seems to put the fire out?
Is that reality or do I just not have all the facts?
I guess every fire is always going to be different. There's no doubt the current systems do work fantastically for cabin fires and under the bonnet or boot without crash damage. Best prevention is always trying to minimise the cause in the first case, so we can always learn how to protect fuel lines and oil lines etc. so that we don't have to rely on extinguishers!
👏👏👏👏👏
Rule one .... hit the red button immediately , rule 2 .... always refer to rule one
Not always!
Aussie Aussie Aussie
why are the officials just standing there why aren't they helping?
Australia’s V8 racing is now so boring the drivers are sterile-and the drivers don’t spin wheels no sliding no excitement ,drifting and dragging racing shits shits all over the V8 bore
to quote modern drivers, we never had it so good. shift rev cuts, take away all the sway bar and bias adjustments. do away with the brake lock lights and make them sound like v8's again! getting the sequential shifter? ok. but now they are talking about paddles! real men drive h-pattern!
Jack I find it strange race car service bays aren't on a 45 Degree angle in pit lane protected by concrete bunkers on each side with fuel air and tires in these service bays cars drive in alongside the garage turn right into their 45 Degree angle service bay and drive out as they have a clear view and can judge their exit you would have no people being struck in pit lane no fuel lines being hooked and more to the point no cars hitting each other on entry into and out of their box then if the car needs to go into the garage there's no turning the car its pushed backwards into its garage this is just another change to stop pit crews getting hit
The response was ridiculously lacking i just hope things change before it's a driver on fire not just a engine bay