Episode 58: Running up the HRT Car and Engine in the workshop
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Awesome, thanks for taking the time. These engines run as if they are large motorcycle engine, like a quad throttle body inline 4 banger, lumpy and crisp!
Thanks for watching!! Cheers!!
Exactly what I was thinking a busa with 4 into 1 , especially when the v8 was coming down in revs shape and quick , no run on in revs
That was excellent Jack. Be great to see that car out on track somewhere with you at the helm
Glad you enjoyed it! Yes looking forward to taking it for a fang again soon!!
seeing comic sans font on the dash is pretty funny! thanks for the vid
Hahah yeah it's a different font isn't it! Reminds me of school!! Cheers!
It never ceases to amaze me how you could get so much horse power out of an N/A 5 litre V8 @ 7500rpm, both Holden/Chev and Ford. Says a lot for our local engine tuning geniuses!.
theyre capable of a lot more, they were super limited in this era because of control on parts
Yes our local engine shops and race teams did a great job with these engines, which was highlighted with rumoured stories about NASCAR teams getting involved in the late 2010's. So a story goes, a NASCAR engine shop was given a rule book and asked to work out horsepower possibilities and engine performance. After falling well short of what we had produced, they couldn't and wouldn't believe what was actually capable until an Engine was sent over for dyno testing!!!
Yes, the control parts like control camshaft and other sound and consistent rules were implemented to keep costs under control.
Especially with such low compression as well. They did awesome 👌
Nothing better than a high hp n/a screaming v8 😍
Thanks Jack. Sounded so good. Loving all your videos mate.
Cheers
Glad you like them! Cheers!
The car stands look cool.😅
K&A Engineering high stands! Cheers
Hi Jack, when the car is not doing any driving and you fire it up every 3 months how often do you change the Castrol engine oil ? And what weight oil does the HRT use?
If it was just static engine run ups and no work on a race track then the engine oil really wouldn't need to be changed at all to be fair. Remembering that these cars do 1000km at Bathurst without an oil change. These engines will often only get an oil change at 1000-1500km. I'm not 100% sure what weight the Mobil race oil was, as it was kept pretty secret, however the Castrol V8Supercar oil is 15W-40. Cheers!!
@@perkinsengineering 👍
Hey Jack, a couple of questions. Is this engine SB2 headed? And, what scale is oil pressure measured in? Surely it’s not 275 psi?
Sounds good, but not quite as angry or crisp as a sprintcar!
5 litre 10-1 engine. So far off of a real race engine. Costs as much for a LOT lkess power!
275 kpa = 39 psi
Hi there, there was another question on the SB2 before I got to yours, heres the same answer for that:
These never were the SB2, I believe they considered the SB2 cylinder head initially but it never made the race engines. This is known as the Holden Motorsport Engine, sometimes called Aurora. It was implemented into V8Supercars with VY Commodores in 2003 and raced until 2022 with the ZB's. It's a GM block and head, I think the block was originally an existing GM part minus engine mounts on the side of the block, but the cylinder head is specific/custom to V8Supercars.
The oil pressure scale is kpa so 275 is basically 40psi.
No the Sprintcar engines, I believe, have way more freedoms with Camshafts and what not.
Cheers!!
Effectively the 5 litre engine rules were introduced in 1993 and created a steady platform for nearly 30 years. Maintaining the same bore and stroke during that period allowed for stability in the technical rules and some what assisted in cost containment, although costs did blow out in certain areas, but control camshafts and freezing of some rules assisted to some cost containment and ensured market force delivered the most competitive parts and prices. Cheers!!
That's it, beat me to it! Cheers!!
Hi are these engines still the 5 litre SB2?
These never were the SB2, I believe they considered the SB2 cylinder head initially but it never made the race engines. This is known as the Holden Motorsport Engine, sometimes called Aurora. It was implemented into V8Supercars with VY Commodores in 2003 and raced until 2022 with the ZB's. It's a GM block and head, I think the block was originally an existing GM part minus engine mounts on the side of the block, but the cylinder head is specific/custom to V8Supercars. Cheers!
The rotating assembly is similar to an SB2.2 - without the larger stroke of course - but they're actually quite a bit different externally.
What the HMS / Aurora engine actually entails, is essentially a 307 Chev block in compacted graphite, with a roller 55mm camshaft, 4 bolt mains and a deck that is drilled for the HMS head - which is basically a Chev copy of the D3 style NASCAR head. So it's more Ford than Chev in a way. Back when they were using the actual SB Chev engines in Supercars, the 18 degree head was the equivalent of the C3 style Yates Ford head. When the D3 came out, that was what forced the change for a Chevy variant to help keep up and level the playing field. Laying the older Chev head over further to even lesser degrees and with canted valves etc etc was just not going to work to be able to meet the competitiveness, rules and cost to compete against the D3. As Jack said, the HMS cylinder head is really very specific to Supercars for that reason. Along with the bore hone design, the cylinder head and camshaft is what really makes these little 5L engines boogie!
Debrissss 🤣 I picked that up 🤔👍
Can't have debris getting in the engine!!
@@perkinsengineering whoosh
Wow, nothing beats the sound of a race engine!
I totally agree they all sound lot better then zb
Not wrong, sounds ace!!
This is the same engine that was in the ZB Supercars. This engine was in VY Commodores in 2003 and used until 2022 in ZB's!
@@perkinsengineeringdamn, got the monies worth from it!
Wow, nothing beats the reliability of a stock engine.😅
Crisp and bloody responsive. Love the ITBs. At idle, they just about sounded like the old Weber side draft carbs. I know at full noise, the induction noise just blows my mind.
Lol, I picked up on that too. Sounded like a set of Weber side drafts at idle
Yeah this engine is very crisp!!! Cheers!
Cheers!
God you can beat that crisp v8 sound! Thank you for keeping up with taking the time to make these videos Jack!
Glad you like them! Cheers!
Dont mean to be some old angry fart, even thou l am,but having to put up with diesel turbo twin cab utes and all the noy racers with there fart machines the magic word listening to this engine was CRISP, a crisp high revving N/A engine is impossible to beat.
Very crisp! Cheers!
p.s what are the regulations on taking us punters on a hotlap in that thing? You'd easily fill a weekend from your youtube subs I reckon
I don't know what the specifics regs are, but there's safety measures under Motorsport Australia and Supercars with regards to passenger seat safety requirements and safety gear that has to be worn, so if we organised all of that correctly it should be fine. All passengers typically have to sign disclaimers and waivers etc.
Music to my ears love it Jack thank you 🙏 mate !!! 😜👍🇦🇺
Cheers!
Just out of curiosity, why did it sound so different at 12:16? Almost sounded like the straight cut gears were involved but the dash says neutral 😅
I don't notice it there, but it can get quite a rattle from the clutch and slave cylinder and the input shaft to drive shaft. Sometimes depressing the clutch makes them much quieter. Cheers!
Ok…..enough is enough….When are you going to do an engine giveaway!!!!
Haha someone would hav to pay for it first lol
Bloody great jack
As always thanks for showing us
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!
Hi Jack. Thank you for sharing. It is great to see you young blokes improving and expanding your knowledge base. Great idea to monitor temperatures... cheers to your Dad. Appreciated the video. 🎉
Thanks for watching! Cheers!
Always interesting. Thanks Jack.
Glad you think so! Cheers!
That was a silly expensive engine though wasnt it, a failed exercise in what, like gearbox in the boot and IRS
The engine was used for nearly 20 years. The control camshaft saved costs but probably needed tighter rules to stop allowing people to spend money on them.
@@perkinsengineering Sure I was referring to the custom GM heads and whatever else, trying to make it look like a ford
Weddings Parties Everything...
Money talks
This is one of my favourite cars, Jack. I even have the replica model 1:18 scale. I love the day-glow red livery and red wheels and the engine sounds superb.
Cool looking car! Cheers!
Good to see the old girl fired up :) Wouldn't you normally run the car in gear to put the gearbox and running gear through a heat cycle?
Yeah sometimes, this one was run up like that when the transaxle was re-fitted just before Christmas last year, so maybe at the next run up I will for sure!
Have you done or doing a Group A...
Watch this space
I was expecting more fireworks with the startup - it sounds downright civilised 😅
No fireworks in my shed! Cheers!
Beautiful cars and I'm not a late model Holden person.
Thanks!!
Can you say debris?
Sure can!
Great video jack! Both cars are awesome and priceless pieces of Australian Motorsport history… all the best this year with Blanchard!
Many thanks! Cheers!!
Jack thank you - “Preventative Maintenance “ love it Regards
That's it!!! Cheers!!
Ahhh that beautiful sound of horsepower.....I love a worked Holden engine (304/5ltr) sound, but the LS is just one step nicer to hear. T/Y Jack for another great video, can't wait to see it circulating on the track again.
There's no replacement for displacement!! Cheers!
Lovely dog
Cheers
I love pretty much all petrol engines but there is something so very special about a V8. Thanks for taking the time to share Jack. Cheers.
Thanks for watching! Cheers!!
Underside of the bonnet looks a bit 'oily' Jack.
Not sure about that!!! It's aluminium but clean as a whistle last time I checked!! Cheers!!
F i want one ❤
That's the old HSV slogan!!! I just want one!!! Cheers!
Man, I could listen to that all day! Unreal. Cheers Jack.
Two questions, what fuel are these running? And with no engine fans, how long you running these up for? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? more or less?
You're welcome! This car runs e85 fuel. The run up is as long as it takes to get the water to temperature, no more or less. Cheers
Have you tried rebuilding the engines with modern Piston (And Honing is a big one) and Camshaft technology? There's a RUclipsr called Stapleton 42 who documents vintage NASCAR, and he filmed the process of Lake Speed Jr. rebuilding his Fathers' Ford Cleveland D4 90's Cup Car for Vintage Racing. And with just wear items refreshed like valve springs and seals and gaskets, a more modern piston with low tension thinner rings and a hone from a modern Rottler honing machine with a profilometer. Just this netted the engine near on 100 Horsepower from what it made in the day!
That's something I'd like to do with our old Holden engines. This particular engine in the HRT car in the video is a recent build so the tech isn't that old.
Sounds incredible jack 👍👍
Does sound good!!! Cheers!
thanks for the squiz of the dash, gonna go make a replica haha
No worries! Funnily enough the dash layout in the Erebus car is/was still very similar to this actually, they did buy Walkinshaw cars to start their Holden/GM journey! Cheers!
G'day Jack,
Great video.
✌️ Peace.
Many thanks, Cheers!
I was there, great show, car looks absolutely amazing Jack, you and your dad have done an amazing job.
Id love to come to an open day at the factory. Are you going to have another one?
Many thanks! No unfortunately we don't have any open days on the horizon, the last one was because we were moving and needed to downsize and have a garage sale!
I know I would love to see this VF in my garage
Remember, everything's for sale ;)
Nice one Jack, really enjoy all your videos. If there’s anymore old clips with your Dad testing that would be awesome to see.
Working on it! Cheers!!
Onya J.P once again , she does sound sweet and so crisp. Thanx.
Cheers!!
Bro those cars are sexy, dont get scammed
Who's scamming who?
are they still running a throttle cable? I thought they might be fly by wire to help the ECU
Yeah this still runs throttle cable. They changed to individual coil packs to start the ability to switch to fly by wire but it never eventuated with the Holden and Ford COTF's. The first version of Mercedes Supercar may have been fly by wire but with single throttle body.
Omg I miss that sound in the new gen cars
I could listen to you free rev that thing all day
Sounds good!!! Cheers!
Awesome video as always Jack love it Smoove as a baby's bum, so the Lam's sensor on exhaust under your feet , are you measuring exhaust temp or just the normal CO2 .
Cheers
Lambda's measure air/fuel ratio so nothing to do with temperature.
@@perkinsengineering are thought so Lambda , heard you say Lam sensor in vid but didn't click until after I commented.
Thanks for reply Jack
Bring the cars to world time attack in Sydney. Get some world wide attention and the crowds would love to see some display and driving demos on track.
That would be cool!
@@perkinsengineering loved to see the old school cars still cutting laps for the crowd. The sounds are pure bliss
Only just noticed, congrats on 20k Jack! 👏
Cheers!! Thanks to everyone for tuning in!
How long can this sit and idle before overheating? No fans correct?
From cold it would sit there for a while for sure, but when hot, not very long! Correct no thermo fans fitted, but we would leave the engine running at idle in a Bathurst pitstop for 20-35 seconds without major issues. Cheers!
I was at the AAAE, I was super surprised to see the VP there. I went straight into fan boy mode. Awesome stuff Jack 😎😎
Good stuff, Cheers!
Hi Jack, you used a IEC (C13) cable to heat up the oil.
Well the cable I stole from an old computer was used to power up the heater element in the oil tank ;) Cheers!
FYI - We use a similar system in a Radical racecar, anytime you are heating oil that has an element or blanket on the oil tank only then you are not heating the engine oil in block, only in the tank. So if we are heating the oil we wait until we get about 50 deg C in the tank then wind the engine so the warm oil ends up in the block,the cold oil that will be ambient temp is scavenged back to tank and heated. We do this a few times over the course of say 15-30 mins pre start so as to get some temp into the engine and also heatsoaks via block into water as well. Some of our vehicles also run water preheat.
@@AW-gj1mu correct. Getting oil pressure also moves some of the warm oil from tank to engine and vice versa.
@@perkinsengineeringDo U run water preheat system? (🐧🐧🐧🧊🧊 We find it useful at Winton and PI in the Winter months, especially at PI with the no engine start before 9am and we are the first category on track)
@@AW-gj1mu not often, sometimes I’ll chuck a fan heater on the radiator to take the edge off it if it’s freezing but ultimately if you’re not using throttle it doesn’t cause any damage
Jack, what is the purpose of the Spectra ropes cable tied to each strut tower? To hold the front wheel assembly on in a prang?
They are tow ropes for when the car needs to skull dragged onto a tilt tray!
@@perkinsengineering Coincidence. I spliced up a removable spectra loop so a mate can pull his Radical into the trailer. Thanks Jack.
Great Ep Jack, turn your mic on though! Lol
It was definitely on!
@@perkinsengineering oh thought it wasn't for the opening intro.
Would love to see a run-down on the exhaust system of these (and the older) cars. Certainly a different sound to a typical road car V8...
Yeah we get lots of people asking about the exhausts but it's hard to show them properly when they are in the car and we don't have spare ones lying around to show. Leave it with me!!!
@@perkinsengineering Listening to this again...can't believe how clean/crisp it sounds. Fair lump at idle but with a few revs onboard it's way less throbby than a typical V8, even than some DOHC V8's. Wondering if you can give us a rough idea of cam specs or better yet, how cam specs have changed over the years with changes in cylinder head design. Have tried looking online and it the info just isn't out there.
@@danielmalone3463 hard to cover off to be honest. In around 2008 they implemented a control camshaft so that spec should be somewhere
God what an angry Beast 😮👍 beautiful
Cheers!!
“Got no debriss”
I understood that reference
Must be careful of debris! Especially around the engine!!! Cheers!
Now it's push to pass software...
@@gerardcrabb4556 😳
And webbed gloves in Nascar...
@@gerardcrabb4556 😳
G'day Jack, do any of these vehicle's still run ya old mans slude type intake? If not why not?
I think you mean Slide Throttle? Holden engines did, then the 18 degree Chev engine couldn't because they had siamese ports not evenly spaced. These HMS engines have even spaces but not sure what the rules allow, so no none of these "current" engines do for reasons unknown.
@perkinsengineering yea slide intake is definitely what that was meant to say. That's interesting 🤔 So the early chevy engines "as in the type that your old man was forced to use" from the mid to late 90s didn't have even spacing? Is that right? When did the chevy engines change to even spaces roughly?
@@justin3131ify that’s correct, the 18 degree’s were Siamese. I can’t speak on behalf of all Chev products, but the next supercars race engine for Holden was a Holden Motorsport Engine, with a specifically designed cylinder head by GM for V8’s and it was evenly spaced 👍👍
Hi Jack i just wanted to know if you would ever race the HRT car in production style trim at the bathurst 6hr or in the production car championship. Would be nice to see the car race again.
Without knowing the Production Car rules entirely, I'd suggest there's no way this car could possibly be allowed in any form of Production Car Racing because it's a purpose built race car, not using a road car body shell/platform. Cheers!
It's a V8 Supercar...
@@gerardcrabb4556 correct
Computer plug,, its a bloody hotwater jug cord.
I pinched it from an old computer and it seems to work ok lol
The old ceramic kettles had a wide 2 pole bakelite plug. Just ask Larry, he'll know what I'm talking about!
Debrisssss - I heard what you did there😂😂
Can't have debris getting in the engine!
Do you own the hrt car mate??
Yes sir
Absolutely love your work mate 👌
Thank you! Cheers!
Thanks for sharing Jack!
You're welcome! Cheers!
Will they ever run in anger again, or just for display?
Regularly
Yes we ran this in anger at Phillip Island a couple of years ago! Happy to run in anger again anywhere and anytime!!
Correct!
Do you guys own that car now?
Touched on a similar question before yours, this car has been with us since 2020/21, well documented on our Facebook page and first featured on Episode 5 of our RUclips channel back in January 2021. Cheers!
Perkins owns the HRT car now?
This car has been with us since 2020/21, well documented on our Facebook page and first featured on Episode 5 of our RUclips channel back in January 2021. Cheers!
@@perkinsengineeringamazing, a wonderful memento for you to have from your career, Jack
Jack who does all the custom carb work?
Not sure what you mean by carb??
It's all individual throttle body injection...
@@gerardcrabb4556 correct
Bloody awesome!
Cheers!!
Let’s vroom
More of a wang than a vroom!!!
Mallee Machinery Field Days
Have your people speak to my people!!
I’ll be calling
NICE MATE
Cheers!
Get rid of that v8 rubbish! Bring in the electric prius!😂😂😂😂
Said no one ever!
Thanks Jack. Light (or no) flywheel = awesome throttle response, luv it
Yes this flywheel isn't off a Cummins truck engine that's for sure!!! Cheers!
so Jack do you do any time in the saddle these days?
Yeah when I can! Driving Sandown and Bathurst again with James Courtney, so we will do a couple of Super2 races before Sandown to sharpen up! Cheers!