82% Toyota battery DEGRADATION and REPAIR
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- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2024
- One of the most religious statements in Priusology circles that battery of one hybrid can hold millions of kilometres. But what we receive every day is that they tend to degrade 50% at 150,000km and fail at 250,000km. Fuel saving degrades in same linear SOH drop.
TDIL: So again: thermal managment is always the key to long lasting batteries! No matter what type of cell chemicals are used (NiMH). And it's also important to monitor that, even when BMS are normally not used for such battery types. Thank you EV-Clinic!!! I've wstched so many hybrid Battery repair videos, but no one had even tried to do a systematic scientifical trouble shooting or research!
And if you don't change the filter for the air cooler what do you expect 😂🎉🎉❤
i am an uberdriver and drove one prius over 700 000km, bought it wirt 200 000. everything ev clinic states is true, degradarion is an issue, but you dont really need high capacity to get good gas mileage. my prius had battery refurbished once at 330 000km, and no issues after that. now i drive 3rd gen prius with 400k km, not sure what previous owner has done, capacity has degraded, but srill not terrible, and i get 4l per 100km.
Again, i agree with everything ev clinics says, but wider picture is that whole system is very good, transmition last forever, rides very smooth with no gear changes, engines fairly reliable, and battery is relatively affordable, and cheap to repair with acessible cells to buy on used market. i believe toyota made good design to keep bateries and cars sustainable for many years to come. its an old design, i agree, but if you have 20 yoar old prius, you can steal keep it on the road with no issues.
@@valuerc2664 thing is that what makes lower fuel consumption, is not toyota state of art battery, it is rest of the system. Battery is crap technology.
But even that is placebo, even toyota without hybrid has good fuel consumption
@@evclinic toyota non hybrids have similar gas mileage on highway, but not even close in the city. i agree with everything else.
you can look from different perspective. many automatic transmitions dont last a lifetime, but, correct me if i am wrong, toyota hybrid transmitions almost never fail. i would rather pay for battery to be repaired than to buy new transmition.
but in general, this batteries are not made to be used for ev driving, and if you try to drive in electric mode and deplete battery you will get significantly higher fuel consumption due to lower eficiency of battery charging and discharging loses. battery stays at 6 bars state of charge, during regular driving for best economy, you dont want to deplete battery below 5 bars.
i am not sure about hybrid systems in other vehicles, but i think toyota hybrid sinergy drive is a clever sistem as a whole, and actually i believe that good safety and track record of toyota hybrids helped ev transition to some degree. i know that ev battery fires are very rare, and blown out of proportions in media, but i am not aware of any issues of toyota hybrids catching fires due to the battery, and that was another proof that no matter how outdated battery technology is, it proved that ev technology can be safe
Cooling of battery pack is done by vent that is next to rear seat and can be filled with some crap and therefore insufficient cooling
Not only that. The cooling policy itself is IMHO epic crap. You can have even more that 3 degrees Celsius difference between the center sensor (warmer) and the lateral ones (colder) when you are driving, the fan is started waaay later (and at lower speed as well). Yesterday I parked outside my car and this morning the center sensor was at 28.9 degrees, while the lateral ones at about 25.8.
What pisses me off a lot is that they put a filter behind the grill on the 3rd generation Prius, but they did not in the Auris MY13. I mean, what the flying f*ck!? Is this the way you are sparing money?!
Very crude. A Toyota Prius has a radiator and a cooling system for the internal combustion engine, yet they paid little attention to proper cooling of the battery,
That battery is dated 2004. So it means it is designed in previous century.
And the new battery costs 2000eu. Buying a new one every 8 years is cheaper than repairing dpf in turbo diesel.
In the contrast bev battery would cost to repair much more then 2000eu.
Ev clinic hates hybrids because they cannot profit on hybrids.
I own hybrids for 7 years now and ev clinic lies about hybrids.
But that battery is degraded 50% after 2-3 years. then you have degraded fuel saving and placebo efect
@@evclinic Toyota is using 0.4kwh of the battery alone. Not the full capacity in the first place.
In reality 9 year old car with the old battery consumed less than half of litre more than 9 year old car with a new battery after I bought it for less than 2000eu.
It was ct200h from 2011. It consumed around 5.4 litre in Zagreb with old battery and that dropped to around 4.9 litre in Zagreb after battery changed.
The car had more torque with the new battery.
Also with the old battery my consumption record was 2.7 litre from Rijeka to Karlovac at old road.
My biggest consumption was 8.5 litre from Ploče to Zagreb on the highway with old battery.
The cars average consumption was 5-6 litre with old battery.
So it is more than placebo for the old 2011 gasoline car without turbo.
Rav4 phev consumes even less. I can drive it as battery electric car most of the year. But I don't have range anxiety when going on road trip with my small children.
Rav4 phev at 150km/h on highway consumes less than 7 litre on long trips.
On short trips it is consumes much less (because of 14kwh inside battery) .
Yearly average consumption is in range of 2 litre per 100km for both road trips and city driving.
So it is much better than bev for diversity usage.
Bev could be better only as a second city car because there is no yearly maintenance as phev has.
So yes, 2 tonne suv phev with awd and around 350hp consumes much less than 10 litre on high speed highway.
It can go above 10 litre only on top speed (around 200km/h).
No turbo. Gasoline engine from 2018 with direct force tehnology.
Tesla performance model would ve great for city driving and middle age crisis.
For everything else Toyota phev is the best.
Very informative video. What device you use to discharge the batteries and track these graphs? Thank you
Every (wanna-be) Hybrid buyer should watch 10 videos of EV clinic first, before buying! Delivering real life facts like a "machine gun", mowing down all hybrid fantasies. ✌️😊✌️
So the taxi drivers all around the world are stupid buying hybrids and driving them over 500 000 km?!
that shocks me really, I've thougt Toyota is more developed in that case !!
1:20 Wow, that is really bad design. 🙈 Would it make sense to install some overlapping NEEY active balancers (24S, 65 €) with 4 A balancng current? What is the cell configurtion? 6P 28S? Or 6x28S? NiMH or LiIon? Thanks for your great work! 💪👌👍
This is a NiMh pack. Every module have 6 cells in series and all the modules are in series. Balancing NiMh packs doesn't really makes it any better. The main issue is the cooling and the oxidation of the busbars with these.
1:20 Note: It could be ok not to balance NiMH cells, because they dissipate heat, when they are at max. voltage. But the occuring (a lot of) heat has to be cooled off properly (!).
Great movie 👍🍻
Do You know something about 5th generation of Toyota hybrid ? Is it better ? I heard that now the batery is Li-ion
Kakva je baterija kod Toyote RAV 4 2.5 benzin sa hybrid od 2019. godine ?
Toyota kao daje garanciju 10godina, sta posle?
Da li je bolje samo benzinac?
There is an application called Dr. Prius that provides a procedure for calculating battery degradation. Do you think it's accurate enough to assess the degradation without having to remove the battery pack from the car? And on this kind of batteries what would be an alarming degradation percentage?
Not accurate. You cant see state of health of each module precisely, and you dont see slipping edge of each module if i cell is dead… which generates overheating.
Welcome. What tools do you use to check the battery capacity Thank you
Great video! Does the new Corolla Hybrid 1.8 Hybrid have the same battery type?
Since when is NiMH battery chemistry still in use? I hope not that is like 10years Backwards 😂❤
Do you offer some kind of certified battery dignostics? So the official retailer/service can't lie about battery cappacity in terms of 75% cappacity in 160 000km range warranty. How much would it cost cca? I'm a Dacia Spring owner with 30k km and assuming arround 10% degradation already (my personal subjective calculation). It would be great to see that kind of information on your website.
P.S. I admire your expertise, great channel, great videos. Would like to help out with my skills if I can come usefull to you some day.
Yes, we remove battery and measure with our equipment.
The 2010 Auris with 17 inch wheels was originally rated with an average consumption of 4,1l/100km.
My average consumption over 13,5 years of ownership and just shy of 300k km driven is 5,086l/100km.
This is not BC consumption, but real calculated(app). IMO this is impressive, as I use 17inch tires in winter also and the most of the first 250k was driven in group rides(so up to 4 people in the car).
My last longer trip 700km to the austrian Alps and back returned an average of 4,3l/100km.
I am not saying your claims of degradation are wrong, but they are not complete and give a wrong picture about Toyota hybrids!
I do know that the system isn't optimal, but it’s been around soooome time and has proven itself, it’s not the system that's at fault but the user, u said your self, heat and cold is the biggest factor at degradation, if the car isn't parked in a garage most of rhe time then this can have a significant effect on degradation.
I have been monitoring the temperatures of the pack during rides with the Dr. Prius App , the battery rarely gets to a significant temperature, only if you don't use AC in the summer time, but who doesn't.
I do expect that at some time I will have to deal with degraded modules, but your claims there are no Toyota hybrids over 250k are false and misleading.
@@aleszverca That is mostly false advertising as usual. Because all those packs above 250k were serviced once, with marked cells or changed once under warranty in OEM. And as you said average consumption increases by age and degradation. It is not same to have 0.2kWh or 1.2kWh of battery pack.
@evclinic U didn't or don't want to get my point, doesn't really matter. I am saying that for a 14 year old Toyota hybrid transporting 3 to 4 people most of it's life with a 5,1l average is pretty ducking impressive. ✌️ My pack is original.
@@aleszverca average is average, but it is not same consumption when it is 1.2 kwh and now at 0.2kWh. That means what you say that car doesnt even need a battery, pure fosil fuel engine would consum anyway 5l in non-hybrid!?
@@evclinic Ok then show me a 2010 1.8l ICE gasoline car with 140hp that on average consumes 5,1l/100km, let me guess there isn't any out there...come on, seriously.
seems as if Toyota has stone age tech when it comes to batteries s...
my camry hybrid has 314000km (195000 miles) and have no issues with hybrid battery .... how can that be?
@@beastlysun so far both, the video and your case, are anecdotal evidence. one needs large scale data to fully analyse
@@tesla-spectre not only larger scale data, but also background. As it was mentioned, its air cooled. It has air intake filter that can be cleaned and if damaged needs replacement (was 15eur when i poked a hole in it). I live in like ... medium dusty environment? I clean after every oil change (10-15000km or 6200 - 9300 miles)
@@beastlysun Unless you actually checked the actual capacity of the battery, how do you know if you have a bad battery?
@@hojnikb Until 240000km (150000miles) it is checked yearly by Toyota. But i do not see any degradation in battery state as i drive. Meaning that the battery never goes empty in my 2x100km commute and still have the consumption in between 4-5.5l/100km (58.8-42.7mpg)
You returned a Hybrid to buy a Tesla instead to save fuel costs?
@@hippopotamus86 I have Tesla now, what fuel costs?
@@evclinic But you did it to save money on fuel right? 😂
@@hippopotamus86 i dont know what is “fuel”
@@evclinic I cannot understand how someone can be this stupid. I'm referring to 6:00 where you said you returned your Toyota Hybrid because your "fuel saving was not 4 litres" and bought a Tesla instead. I am trying to confirm with you that you returned a Hybrid to buy a Tesla to save on fuel costs, as in, go from buying fuel, to NOT having to buy fuel. I get that English isn't your first language, but surely, this isn't hard to understand. Did you buy a Tesla to save money?
@@evclinicdollars per miles
I would never purchase EV I stick to an ICE car.
Toyota prodaje MAGLU!!! EV clinic👏👏👏
Do you offer services to increase battery capacity or power for Tesla vehicles?
There is a lot of hybrid toyotas on the road, that is why you get several of those batteries a week, even when the actual defect rate is pretty low.
Obviously the healthy battery packs do not get into your workshop.
The battery air filter needs to be changed with each oil change, as the manufacturer scheduled. That enables proper cooling function.
Just yesterday I drove a lot through the city and my fuel consumption ended up under 4 litres to 100 km. Long term I get 4.6L based on my fill ups, not the onboard computer.
You getting 8L in a city? Must have been a big Highlander SUV and you driving like you stole it.
Hybrids proved themselves over the last 25 years. I dont understand why you cherry pick information and missinterpret reality.
Every engineering solution has its pros and cons, but you only choose the share part of the picture and give bad advice to the public.
@@otomoravec1732 Doesnt matter what you think, i never seen prius with 500000km and original pack. Only one with 300k. Other with higher mileage had pack refurbished already 2-3 times by other workshops.
Board pc consumption doesnt mean it is really true. Usually in toyota is higher then it shows.
@@evclinic yeah well i am not saying you are wrong with cars you saw, i am just saying there is much more cars you did not see.
As I wrote, my consumption is calculated from the gas pump meter, not by the car computer (they do differ by 5% in my case). I have recorded every refueling I did on Spritmonitor for more than 3 years / 70k km, so I know very well what the actual numbers are.
@@otomoravec1732 Yes but the point is that nobody have seen Toyota hybrid with original battery pack above 250.000km
@@evclinic you must be blind lol.....
@@evclinic Lot of owners on Reddit or PriusChat achieve significantly higher mileage before they need a replacement.
What a nonsense…. My old hybrid Lexus RX 400h, 495.000 km, still going strong without any problems what so ever. Just regular service and no problems at all 🙌🏻… Those Balkan people do not service cars almost never ever and they want to car last for ever… Import 90% of all cars from Germany with 700.000km and thinking they have “new” car…. Rubbish….
@@alexa795 What is degradation of that battery? Do you erase error codes daily via obd and elm327? Battery reconditioned and cells swaped?
I can not believe that lexus toyota sect can lie so much. Nobody ever seen 400h with original cells on 500k km and we do them on a weekly basis.
@@evclinic I am the first owner, everything original. Using suv as a hunting vehicle many years. As was brand new fuel consumption it’s between 6-9L as it’s now. Amazing cars! No problems, and very cheap service maintenance cost. It is not without reason that it’s the best-selling car brand in the world.
@@alexa795 but battery is not original as it was when it was new. It is 100% reconditioned and cells swapped, or even new battery pack
@@evclinic Like I said, everything it’s original 🙌🏻…. When time it’s come, it’s pretty cheap and easy swap damaged or bad cells in those battery packs. And drive another 500.000 km
@@alexa795 Yes sure 😂 do you have OBD app connected to erase battery defect lamp when it pops up?
You could do a lithium upgrade and upgrade the coming will work 10x better
@@zunzea you could do upgrade to EV and sell prius
@@evclinic evs are not good enough, limited range and charging, no thanks
@@zunzeaI think you need to do some research!!
@@kitcht I have, thanks
@@evclinic But a change of all cells cost just a few thousand Euros, a new EV cost 10 times more. For sure it makes sense to repair the car.These cars runs for 15 -20 years with no problems, except the batterie if the owner did not clean the filter/vents regularly.
Placebo 😅 .. well done komšo/Rrezart
crazy. all that fuel savings is gone just went into replacing the battery. 😩 maybe just don't replace it? I saw a junkyard video that a Prius can be driven without the hybrid battery.
And these Ni-Mh packs do contain lots of rare earth. 10kg per pack! Ouch… Toyota = Kodak
Dodged a bullet avoiding a Hybrid and going for Petrol alone
Pure petrol or pure EV
@@evclinickako stupiti s vama u kontakt? Slao sam dva mejla. Javio se preko fejsa i sad vas proganjam preko jutuba?
@@user-bi3yv5xk5i 😂😂😂😂 vjerovatno je neodgovoren email sam po sebi odgovor. Ajde ponovi email bas da vidim.
@@evclinicposlao sam oba majla preko više pronuđača. Radujem se odgovoru