Ya, not sure there will be another unless he decides to design and build a new cover. My take is that the factory covers ( rounded back) provide the best lube and cooling, so far.
Love the fact that the man himself is taking the time to educate us all, knowledge like this is not learned overnight. Thank you Gale! Guy that loves learning this stuff, Bjorn.
I see your point but my boost gauge dropped 5 psi. Looked further into the cause and found my collector pipe to the turbo let go on the turbo but otherwise never knew I had a problem. 19 psi to 14 psi was a big difference but did'nt feel the difference until it was fixed. Happened so gradually until 1 day I said to myself......self....something is not right here. Happened on my 7.3 powerstroke. It can still be used as a good measuring tool.
I see it being useful, but I also see it being useless. Certain programs trick the ECU in to using an altered boost number. If you are obtaining the boost number via the ECU then the information displayed is probably inaccurate. I would prefer to see what the ECU is being told the boost is and also pull real data and display the actual boost being administered, but at some point you run out of data to display on a unit such as the live wire plus. Obviously each motor has different values of interest. I would prefer to monitor fuel pressure and degas pressure before I would concern myself with MAD or whatever it was he called it. In my mind my intercooler is not going to change what it does mid drive and I can not control; ambient temperature, air density, or humidity. I can however control how much boost I am pushing and would prefer to see the boost scenarios my right foot and gear selection are creating. Now if you were going to fog the intercooler, then maybe this would be good info display, but it seems you could simply display MAF data...
I feel like this was just stating the obvious, no one was ever disputing any of what he said. Cool to see, but it’s been intuitive to understand for a very long time. That’s why manufacturers started inter cooling....
If the video had been maybe 30+ years ago, it might have been news. But the video is purely to advertise the product he is selling, nothing more and as you say, the detail is all basic common sense. And his MAD is pretty much the MAF almost all OEM's use anyway, some of which dont even take boost into consideration.
@@blow0me This product was never intended for any street vehicle, it’s meant for purpose built race cars. Running this monster gauge off a stock ECU would be very risky to begin with.
Thanks Gale Banks for a well presented video. I saw a GE portable high wattage electric generator setup. It consisted of two full sized truck trailers. One trailer carried the generator and a full size turbine. A turbine is a jet engine tuned for torque. The second trailer carried an intake air chiller. They claimed that by using some of the generator output to run the chiller, total electric output of the system increased. This agrees with everything Gale Banks said. With a completely different style of engine. Good work.
I have a 2018 Chevy Duramax. Just bought it a month ago. I started looking for performance, and saw many brands. What sold me is Gale explaining with actual data. I have installed the Derringer with IDash, CAI, monster exhaust, pedal monster, and the Banks diff cover... my truck is a completely different animal and I am so excited to brag on Banks products. Thanks for exceptional products and waking my baby up!
Exactly right! There is alot more to making power than boost percentage. People forget about things like speed velocity, density, air temp, resistance and flow of cylinder heads, valve lift vs duration, etc..etc..
A better man at explanation I have not seen. Good job gale. I’m a mechanic and what you talked about in this video is obvious common sense. But a lot of people don’t understand it. Common sense isn’t that common. And I love that your combining sales of your amazing gauge sets. And teaching people at the same time. I will be placing an order for one.
This is a comforting video. I have a supercharged engine in my truck and never used a boost guage. I have custom pulleys to make it all work. Once I put a pulley on that was too much. Boost blew the ceramic parts of the spark plugs out at full throttle.
Wow Mr. Banks!!! That was amazing!!! I knew cooling the air would make a difference in the air density and you would make more horsepower, but wow, that was a major difference from not cooling to cooling the air. Amazing test results. Thanks for sharing.....
Thank you once again Mr. Banks! I've been going on about this exact thing for AGES..... finally actual data to throw in friends and colleagues faces who never understood this concept without actually seeing it in action.
I doubt any sane person uses boost gauge as an engine performance data. It's role is to tell the user if the charger performs as intended, is it making enough manifold pressure and not more, because both situations are signing a problem potentially leading even to engine's destruction. It's just the simplest way to know there are no immediate major issues with the charged intake while driving.
I didn’t watch this video yet but thank you for making it!!! Psi is just a measure of resistance through the system. People can’t seem to grasp that a bigger turbo will flow more cfm and make more power at a lower psi than a small turbo.
I love this perspective shift, really makes much more sense. I wonder how do turbo dynamics change (or do they) with temperature and humidity. Like does the turbo's compressor map change as air density changes?
While the boost gauge isn't great for tuning, it is a great way to identify if your vehicle falls outside of expected tolerances. If you're over-boosting, you know that something is wrong with the wastegate operation. If you're under-boosting, that's a sign that you have a boost leak :D
I understand the air density thing. Was taught that when I learned to fly airplanes. I don't think the boost gauge is dead, as it has alerted me to a pressure leak at the turbo outlet on my '91 Daytona 2.5L . The Idash is the cats ass for seeing the entire picture. Am seriously considering the purchase. Just need to know more details about fitment and sensors.
So this is what I already mostly knew about, but my question is, which I have never tested, can you set the waste gates to adjust for density instead of pressure? Or would the pressure difference needed to compensate for density cause to many other problems when the boost has to rise above what it's normal setting is to compensate for hot and dry air?
As a former truck driver, I used boost gauges as a rough estimate for how much fuel the engine was using per cycle, and therefore what percent of its rated output it was producing.
My two oldest daughters ages 11 and 9 just looked over my shoulder during this whole video and didn’t make a sound or barely blink, the whole video. Like they were enthralled.
One question... as a consumer looking to modify a vehicle, especially a diesel, first thing that’s always said is you must have gauges. So your first mods are intake, exhaust, tuner, and gauges. Other than your initial test to make sure you have improved the performance of your truck, what is the purpose of gauges? When using your truck on the daily, you can’t change your environment to anything other than what it already is, and as long as your tuning is good your truck won’t enter a danger zone, so for most of the average Joes I’m not sure where these gauges are helpful.
"So long as your tuning is good." How do you know if your tuning is good? This gauge will tell you. How good is that turbo you just bought? The gauge will tell you. Is your intercooler doing anything or is it just a shiny piece of pretty aluminum? This gauge will tell you. What's the point of watching Boost or EGT on a gauge. Can you do anything about boost? Not unless you're a tuner. But you're right. Parameters like Density may not be for everyone. There are 80+ parameters on the iDash for everyone. For this video, rather than focusing on the features that all digital gauges have, we chose to focus on what sets the iDash apart from all others... and that's Density. Along with a few other calculations we're about to bake in. But most importantly, thanks for watching. 👍
I'd say this (or these types of) gauges would be pretty good on a daily. Because it's a small and compact gauge you can have it hidden if you dont want to see it but you can still have multiple datas visible on it when you are tuning or checking stuff. It's not even expensive compared to getting many high quality "normal" gauges that only show 1 or 2 data. But it's not for everyone, I don't like the look of it and I like looking at gauges so I would just have mechanical boost and intake temp gauges.
@@bankspower How are you going to know your tuning is good? I'd hope to God the dyno pull results from the tuner you just spent a couple grand at for starters... And so this gauge is going to differentiate between the infinite list of variables from parts, manufactures, weather conditions, fuel quality and how it's tuned? What's the magic number for MAD? At what RPM? Diesel or Gas? While it's neat to see more blinking lights on the dash, (I'm an engineer myself, I get it), at the end of the day it's just a meaningless uncontrollable number as it's being used as a daily driver. Perhaps with the possible exception you drove through a puddle of concrete and totally clogged the intercooler, and then decided to go drag racing, but I find that scenario rather unlikely in the end.
when I bought my duramax, my first two mods were exhaust and a set of gauges. egt, boost and fuel rail pressure. granted the truck was stock so you don't have to worry as much. but it is nice to keep an eye on those. egts are important to keep an eye on while towing, boost gauge let me know when my power steering line rubbed a hole through the intercooler pipe. I wouldn't have known other wise until it got really bad. and fuel rail pressure let's you keep an eye on the injection pump and the health of the fuel system to an extent. when I watch the rail pressure drop when it should be climbing. that tells me something isn't right, even if its as small as the fuel filter. they get significantly more important once you start tuning and modding tho. at the end of the day, the more things you can monitor the better in my opinion.
boost is great for overcoming intake reversion but unless you could manage to have extremely high pressure waiting for the intake to open and somehow manage to drop the pressure to nothing and still manage to fill the cylinder to get an ice cold intake charge :) (if only our atmosphere was r134)
Agreed, but a boost guage is better than no guage. I use mine only to see if there is a problem with turbocharger/intercooler plumbing working properly.
Intake air temperature affecting hp is something most notice instinctively, but it really is nice to have real numbers. My little old pickup truck generally picks up noticeable horsepower whenever ambient temperature drops below 60F. Never dyno'd it, but it is real and thats using the same grade of fuel. Should we call temperature/humidity corrected numbers Boost Factor to get away from blind reliance on Boost Pressure? What I couldn't say is where to set the benchmark numbers of humidity and temperature to either add or subtract from the pressure number - maybe 100F and 50%?. Some people still like to know boost pressure numbers just to keep tabs on if their wastegate setpoint has drifted [or gone completely pear shaped] and maybe spot other problems. Perhaps one gauge with an over/under display of both numbers is all a driver needs? The rest can be data logged. And... could the next performance step be a variable [computer controlled] wastegate? I would still want something mechanical backing it up as a safety device in event of control failure however - put a sensor in it for the driver to know if it ever trips just in case.
I'd be really interested in a modular gauge that doesn't work off the OBDII port. My truck is pre OBDII and I'd like to monitor things like MAD, oil pres, water temp, etc. I think there would be a good market for another version of the idash in which you can hook up what sensors you want directly to the gauge in a modular type setup.
That's a good question, and good to see that Banks is working on a setup like that. Hopefully it is more generic and doesn't rely on the computers, for those of us who are either pre-ODBII or wishing to tune up an older diesel for use in a newer truck.
Great presentation. As always. What you showed is great knowledge. That being said..I don't believe the boost gauge is dead. Most drivers are intercooled and don't have control over humidity. This leaves our variable left to MAP. It's the same principle as to why I dont have an IAT gauge or even a water temp gauge on a pillar. The boost level changes with driving attitude and style. It's what our foot has control over. What did surprise me is that essentially you only gained 10% of your HP from intercooling. And by the look of those EGTs and the sound of surprise in your voice when your turbo supported 600 cranking horses...I think you have more HP to gain just by increasing your CFM numbers. Hm. A CFM efficiency % gauge....
Halfway through? You mean the whole way through. Just because he's selling something doens't mean that the information contained is invalid. Though this isn't new information in the slightest.
If you want to do this yourself, you need an AEM dash display and datalogger and a bunch of sensors: pressure, temperature, humidity. They combined three sensors into one. It is easier to spread those around than to put separate temp and pressure sensors everywhere. It has a cool datalogging function, so you don't have to figure out where to mount a screen etc. I was looking hard at a CD5 setup with a 29 channel CAN module by AEM but have to say this little thing can probably do most of what I need for my project. Only thing is, I don't know if it comes with a great data analysis package like the AEM stuff does. And I don't think it will log turbo rpm sensors. Basically this is for guys who want to push more power through the motor and do it in an informed manner.
Yeah because it's taking about the boost gauge is pointless. So if you don't have a gauge for it then what do you do to know how much boost the turbo is doing?
Well, I'd say for people who don't have an unlimited supply of turbos, the boost gauge can give an early indication of an issue. Combine that with an egt sensor and someone may be able to save their truck before they unknowingly drive it into the ground. IMO having a gauge is never bad, unless you can't trust it.
I dont think anyone has ever stated that boost level is the ultimate parameter to making power. The same level of boost pressure on different engines can result in a huge amount of power difference. 17psi on a Chevy Cruze (Stock pressure btw) is a whole lot different than 17psi on a Chevy Corvette. It's a measuring tool to base tuning parameters on.
To everyone saying “Duh he’s saying inter coolers are good, everybody knows that.” You missed the point. He’s explaining that measuring the proper variables is more important than just boost pressure, and their product can effectively provide that information.
Customer support was no help to me so maybe this is better: Air density consists of 3 different data inputs: air temperature, air humidity, and air pressure. So my question is, without installing a humidity sensor in your intake manifold, how do you accurately record Manifold Air Density? To my current understanding, you can’t take the humidity reading from the air mouse because as soon as the air is heated when it’s compressed and then cooled from the inter cooler, the humidity changes.
When you say customer support was no help, does that mean you called or emailed and go no response or was it that you didn't like the response that you received? The relative humidity changes but the mass of water vapor pressure doesn't. We use pressure ratio and ambient vapor pressure to correct for dry air manifold air density. You only need to know relative humidity in one location. So, an AirMouse is all you need to correctly compensate for humidity. The math is handled in the iDash.
Banks Power first thank you for the explanation. And when I called, customer support was not trained well enough on their own products to answer my question (that fine, I can understand) so they said they’d call me back. Well they never called me because that’s too much for them too handle. And I sense a little booty tickle coming from Banks Support? Are you upset I called out Banks on in my other comment for failing to complete his diff cover series and scientifically show us why his diff cover is better?
@@nealarcher1970 Density is not an easy concept for all to grasp. You may have reached one of our more junior staff members that hasn't mastered it just yet. We apolgoize for not returning your call. We didn't see your comment about the diff cover. Gale has not failed. It's just taking longer than we or you would like. We have plenty of data that we'll be sharing soon. We released the videos in real time last year... as we were learning about the various cover design flaws. It wasn't like a TV series that was recorded months prior. During the process, around video number two, Gale sat down to design one with our engineers. Then, after weeks of fine-tuning, it was tested, perfected and sent to production. We had hoped to share the data about the diff cover testing last September but it didn't make sense to share the info and have our competitors race to market with updated covers. We held onto the info in order to time it with our diff cover launch. We'll only get one opportunity to share the data and we want to make it count.
He doesn't address the delta P across the intercooler, or the relationship of the flow thru the IC versus its resistance to flow as boost increases, and the inherent increase in air temp. When you force air thru an IC you reach a point where it can't flow the air without a drastic increase in resistance, and that causes the air temp to shoot up higher as the turbo works harder and super heats the air to a point you're negating the use of the IC
The engine is running and waiting for a pull but everyone is still asking questions and Banks being a gentleman (and proud of his product) continues to answer. While watching this, I was yelling at them to do a fucking pull on the engine! Talk later
When you try to compress air it heats up .. The charge cooler takes the BYU's out of it .. Compress air to a certain pressure and you have the same BYU's but in half the space at 1 Bar
this is great video, thank you Gale, reminds of me of.having a large cooler with many things running through the cooler packed with ice..The way Dodge uses Ac which we didn't have.....ice makes density in Air...This all so can help to reduce air Temperature, (heat)..So if we can cool the intercooled more, be more HP.....
for someone building their own motor and tuning at home, could someone use these to make educated decisions in regards to parts combos, turbo selection and plumbing efficiency? i understand it is not a dyno but by logic a higher MAD equates to more power production provided you have good af/r, engine/oil temp, so you could make a change and take a log to see if things improved or not?
Click bait. I don't think anyone thinks boost is the ultimate and only number. It's one of many, and still an important one to watch while you're running a car.
clearly the applications of this module are that you can fuck with your intercooling as well as the rest of the air system and actually see what is happening in the system with each change.
Considering it is a V8 with a high liter displacement, 56 horsepower gain is not really that much. Perhaps you could have played with the timing more and tuned it for even more with the intercooler upgrade.
You know, I was actually reluctant to come around to this idea by Mr. Banks, but I'm slowly starting to accept it. I'm just _really_ used to seeing boost gauges, I suppose we all are. Boost gauge may not be totally useless, but it's just a really incomplete picture compared to what MAD can illustrate.
You been living in a recluse somewhere ? water/methanol injection is huge, and has been for a very long time and there are dozens of suppliers, with tens of thousands of users. It is very common.
A boost gauge is still a very useful gauge, especially with an analogue needle. You can see at a glance if the turbo system is working correctly and how much load the engine is under by the angle and movement of the needle, no need for maths and focusing on a digital display for longer than you should need to.
I have a 427 sbc vortec supercharger with no intercooler it made around 627 hp with an intercooler it made 730 hp and lost boost. So yeah an intercooler will add hp. It was around 11.9 psi with no intercooler and just shy of 10psi with the intercooler. Same pulley nothing changed.
So by data logging and with the ability to read track and weather conditions the guys racing ETs at the drag strip can use that information to get the most they can out of their motor while still being able to tune down so they don't break out as the conditions change throughout the day..?
Would the air mouse be made even more practical if it was mounted inside the air filter box pre filter. that way it would be accounting for how the environment is being affected by the engine compartment.
Maybe do a video with restrictors between the turbo and manifold? Show people how X PSI could differ between one motor and another. The restrictors could act like smaller valves. It showed people lied to similar size motors with the same boost can make completely different horsepower because of how they flow
Dang it Gale you've done it again. Now I've got to get some diff covers and see if an iDash would work for my 12 valve. I was curious what the charge air temp was for each run. Also it looked like that was a water to air i/c? What was the water temp going through it?
Great educational info WITH advertisement for the iDash Devices. I almost didn't catch that this is a well disguised advertisement for Banks iDash. If the discussion in the middle was less than 5 minutes on how great the iDash is really it is really great and versatile and really great and better than stock and records great and is really great, I would not have noticed. AND... Where are the rest of the Diff Cover Videos?!? You repeat yourself too much....
You can, in fact, intercool a NA engine. It won't do anything and the extra parts in the intake will be more restrictive than your factory intake but you can do it.
Gale is out here making his own episode of engine masters
MotorTrend left that door and many more open for people to fill.
I saw the dyno cell and the camera setup and thought the same thing!
Motortrend fucked that up by charging
@@sonikempire charging for 5 year old "carfellas" and "texas car wars'
Brule looks different
I'm here for another class from Gale - what a legend.
WHERE IS THE REST OF THE DIFF COVER VIDEOS!
David Moore honestly whats going on??!
@@Mr.Beastforpresident what?
Ya they are holding out on the last one!!
He is making a prototype he had in a vid about 2vids ahi he explained
Ya, not sure there will be another unless he decides to design and build a new cover. My take is that the factory covers ( rounded back) provide the best lube and cooling, so far.
Love the fact that the man himself is taking the time to educate us all, knowledge like this is not learned overnight. Thank you Gale!
Guy that loves learning this stuff, Bjorn.
I see your point but my boost gauge dropped 5 psi. Looked further into the cause and found my collector pipe to the turbo let go on the turbo but otherwise never knew I had a problem. 19 psi to 14 psi was a big difference but did'nt feel the difference until it was fixed. Happened so gradually until 1 day I said to myself......self....something is not right here. Happened on my 7.3 powerstroke. It can still be used as a good measuring tool.
David Henri it’s a reference number that’s it
ExtremePower Addicts we are talking about Diesel engines in this comment, please move along.
I see it being useful, but I also see it being useless. Certain programs trick the ECU in to using an altered boost number. If you are obtaining the boost number via the ECU then the information displayed is probably inaccurate. I would prefer to see what the ECU is being told the boost is and also pull real data and display the actual boost being administered, but at some point you run out of data to display on a unit such as the live wire plus. Obviously each motor has different values of interest.
I would prefer to monitor fuel pressure and degas pressure before I would concern myself with MAD or whatever it was he called it. In my mind my intercooler is not going to change what it does mid drive and I can not control; ambient temperature, air density, or humidity. I can however control how much boost I am pushing and would prefer to see the boost scenarios my right foot and gear selection are creating. Now if you were going to fog the intercooler, then maybe this would be good info display, but it seems you could simply display MAF data...
I feel like this was just stating the obvious, no one was ever disputing any of what he said. Cool to see, but it’s been intuitive to understand for a very long time. That’s why manufacturers started inter cooling....
If the video had been maybe 30+ years ago, it might have been news. But the video is purely to advertise the product he is selling, nothing more and as you say, the detail is all basic common sense. And his MAD is pretty much the MAF almost all OEM's use anyway, some of which dont even take boost into consideration.
@@blow0me This product was never intended for any street vehicle, it’s meant for purpose built race cars. Running this monster gauge off a stock ECU would be very risky to begin with.
Thanks Gale Banks for a well presented video.
I saw a GE portable high wattage electric generator setup. It consisted of two full sized truck trailers. One trailer carried the generator and a full size turbine. A turbine is a jet engine tuned for torque. The second trailer carried an intake air chiller. They claimed that by using some of the generator output to run the chiller, total electric output of the system increased.
This agrees with everything Gale Banks said. With a completely different style of engine. Good work.
I have a 2018 Chevy Duramax. Just bought it a month ago. I started looking for performance, and saw many brands. What sold me is Gale explaining with actual data. I have installed the Derringer with IDash, CAI, monster exhaust, pedal monster, and the Banks diff cover... my truck is a completely different animal and I am so excited to brag on Banks products. Thanks for exceptional products and waking my baby up!
I have the idash and I love it. Thank you for explaining this. I never use the air density gauge because I didn’t know how to read it.
Gale is like the mr rogers of the automotive world 😎
This is BY FAR the best channel to go and actually learn how and what makes horsepower.
Boost gauge isnt dead, but relying solely on one is. It's still an intricate part of the puzzle. Thanks for the great video.
I ran big heads, cam, and headers on a blown sbc. It didn't make big boost but 625hp on the street. Boost is a measurement of resistance.
Exactly right! There is alot more to making power than boost percentage. People forget about things like speed velocity, density, air temp, resistance and flow of cylinder heads, valve lift vs duration, etc..etc..
Pressure cannot develop unless there is resistance to flow
Thank you Professor Banks
A better man at explanation I have not seen. Good job gale.
I’m a mechanic and what you talked about in this video is obvious common sense. But a lot of people don’t understand it. Common sense isn’t that common. And I love that your combining sales of your amazing gauge sets. And teaching people at the same time. I will be placing an order for one.
This is the greatest most honest marketing campaign I have ever seen. Dale sure seems like a top notch man
This is a comforting video. I have a supercharged engine in my truck and never used a boost guage. I have custom pulleys to make it all work. Once I put a pulley on that was too much. Boost blew the ceramic parts of the spark plugs out at full throttle.
Love it! I've been saying for years that boost is just a measurement of restrictions. Better flow with cooler denser air is king.
Diff cover updates??? 😁
Wow Mr. Banks!!! That was amazing!!! I knew cooling the air would make a difference in the air density and you would make more horsepower, but wow, that was a major difference from not cooling to cooling the air. Amazing test results. Thanks for sharing.....
I knew you were going to talk about manifold air density good work Mr. Banks thank you for sharing your knowledge. You are a legend
Love Gale's innovation. Answers the age old question of what's more important boost or air flow, neither its all about getting MAD.
Thank you once again Mr. Banks! I've been going on about this exact thing for AGES..... finally actual data to throw in friends and colleagues faces who never understood this concept without actually seeing it in action.
This was the best video so far from Banks. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
I doubt any sane person uses boost gauge as an engine performance data. It's role is to tell the user if the charger performs as intended, is it making enough manifold pressure and not more, because both situations are signing a problem potentially leading even to engine's destruction. It's just the simplest way to know there are no immediate major issues with the charged intake while driving.
I didn’t watch this video yet but thank you for making it!!! Psi is just a measure of resistance through the system. People can’t seem to grasp that a bigger turbo will flow more cfm and make more power at a lower psi than a small turbo.
I love this perspective shift, really makes much more sense. I wonder how do turbo dynamics change (or do they) with temperature and humidity. Like does the turbo's compressor map change as air density changes?
Gale Banks and Steve Brulé would be the ultimate dynamic duo
Besides being the best boost guru on the planet Gale also likes George Peppard...I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER...
You caught that, eh Ed? Haha.
MrTommy001 ...yes...they don’t make tv shows like the A TEAM...anymore...
Knowledge is always welcome.
About time!!! Engineering level knowledge and data related to horsepower
While the boost gauge isn't great for tuning, it is a great way to identify if your vehicle falls outside of expected tolerances. If you're over-boosting, you know that something is wrong with the wastegate operation. If you're under-boosting, that's a sign that you have a boost leak :D
I understand the air density thing. Was taught that when I learned to fly airplanes. I don't think the boost gauge is dead, as it has alerted me to a pressure leak at the turbo outlet on my '91 Daytona 2.5L . The Idash is the cats ass for seeing the entire picture. Am seriously considering the purchase. Just need to know more details about fitment and sensors.
I am really enjoying these videos! Please keep them coming.
Very interesting video. We actually use a MAD gauge in aircraft, only we call it Manifold Absolute Pressure.
pretty sure that's not the same.
Would love to meet mr banks one day. Amazing man. Keep the videos coming! Love them all!
One of the few channels that are totally worth smashing that notification bell.
So this is what I already mostly knew about, but my question is, which I have never tested, can you set the waste gates to adjust for density instead of pressure? Or would the pressure difference needed to compensate for density cause to many other problems when the boost has to rise above what it's normal setting is to compensate for hot and dry air?
As a former truck driver, I used boost gauges as a rough estimate for how much fuel the engine was using per cycle, and therefore what percent of its rated output it was producing.
For me a boost gauge is to make sure I don't have any leaks.
Boost or vacuum...
Cool Gale! Please make a 3rd run while misting the intercooler with water/alcohol. Thanks
My two oldest daughters ages 11 and 9 just looked over my shoulder during this whole video and didn’t make a sound or barely blink, the whole video. Like they were enthralled.
One question... as a consumer looking to modify a vehicle, especially a diesel, first thing that’s always said is you must have gauges. So your first mods are intake, exhaust, tuner, and gauges. Other than your initial test to make sure you have improved the performance of your truck, what is the purpose of gauges? When using your truck on the daily, you can’t change your environment to anything other than what it already is, and as long as your tuning is good your truck won’t enter a danger zone, so for most of the average Joes I’m not sure where these gauges are helpful.
"So long as your tuning is good." How do you know if your tuning is good? This gauge will tell you. How good is that turbo you just bought? The gauge will tell you. Is your intercooler doing anything or is it just a shiny piece of pretty aluminum? This gauge will tell you. What's the point of watching Boost or EGT on a gauge. Can you do anything about boost? Not unless you're a tuner. But you're right. Parameters like Density may not be for everyone. There are 80+ parameters on the iDash for everyone. For this video, rather than focusing on the features that all digital gauges have, we chose to focus on what sets the iDash apart from all others... and that's Density. Along with a few other calculations we're about to bake in. But most importantly, thanks for watching. 👍
I'd say this (or these types of) gauges would be pretty good on a daily. Because it's a small and compact gauge you can have it hidden if you dont want to see it but you can still have multiple datas visible on it when you are tuning or checking stuff. It's not even expensive compared to getting many high quality "normal" gauges that only show 1 or 2 data. But it's not for everyone, I don't like the look of it and I like looking at gauges so I would just have mechanical boost and intake temp gauges.
@@bankspower How are you going to know your tuning is good? I'd hope to God the dyno pull results from the tuner you just spent a couple grand at for starters... And so this gauge is going to differentiate between the infinite list of variables from parts, manufactures, weather conditions, fuel quality and how it's tuned? What's the magic number for MAD? At what RPM? Diesel or Gas?
While it's neat to see more blinking lights on the dash, (I'm an engineer myself, I get it), at the end of the day it's just a meaningless uncontrollable number as it's being used as a daily driver. Perhaps with the possible exception you drove through a puddle of concrete and totally clogged the intercooler, and then decided to go drag racing, but I find that scenario rather unlikely in the end.
when I bought my duramax, my first two mods were exhaust and a set of gauges. egt, boost and fuel rail pressure. granted the truck was stock so you don't have to worry as much. but it is nice to keep an eye on those. egts are important to keep an eye on while towing, boost gauge let me know when my power steering line rubbed a hole through the intercooler pipe. I wouldn't have known other wise until it got really bad. and fuel rail pressure let's you keep an eye on the injection pump and the health of the fuel system to an extent. when I watch the rail pressure drop when it should be climbing. that tells me something isn't right, even if its as small as the fuel filter. they get significantly more important once you start tuning and modding tho. at the end of the day, the more things you can monitor the better in my opinion.
boost is great for overcoming intake reversion but unless you could manage to have extremely high pressure waiting for the intake to open and somehow manage to drop the pressure to nothing and still manage to fill the cylinder to get an ice cold intake charge :) (if only our atmosphere was r134)
Awesome video. Too bad most people don’t and won’t understand IATs
"I'm Gale Banks, and this is my MasterClass"
Agreed, but a boost guage is better than no guage. I use mine only to see if there is a problem with turbocharger/intercooler plumbing working properly.
Intake air temperature affecting hp is something most notice instinctively, but it really is nice to have real numbers. My little old pickup truck generally picks up noticeable horsepower whenever ambient temperature drops below 60F. Never dyno'd it, but it is real and thats using the same grade of fuel. Should we call temperature/humidity corrected numbers Boost Factor to get away from blind reliance on Boost Pressure? What I couldn't say is where to set the benchmark numbers of humidity and temperature to either add or subtract from the pressure number - maybe 100F and 50%?. Some people still like to know boost pressure numbers just to keep tabs on if their wastegate setpoint has drifted [or gone completely pear shaped] and maybe spot other problems. Perhaps one gauge with an over/under display of both numbers is all a driver needs? The rest can be data logged. And... could the next performance step be a variable [computer controlled] wastegate? I would still want something mechanical backing it up as a safety device in event of control failure however - put a sensor in it for the driver to know if it ever trips just in case.
Great video - thank you for taking the time!
Can you please tell us what the engine puts out NA?
Keep up the awesome work Mr. Banks
I bet Smokey's looking down on this with a smile. Dyno runs are useless unless you measure everything. Keep on testing @Banks Power.
I'd be really interested in a modular gauge that doesn't work off the OBDII port. My truck is pre OBDII and I'd like to monitor things like MAD, oil pres, water temp, etc. I think there would be a good market for another version of the idash in which you can hook up what sensors you want directly to the gauge in a modular type setup.
Good news. We're working on pre-CAN iDash with all the sensors. Stay tuned!
@@bankspower That's great! I'm looking forward to it.
That's a good question, and good to see that Banks is working on a setup like that. Hopefully it is more generic and doesn't rely on the computers, for those of us who are either pre-ODBII or wishing to tune up an older diesel for use in a newer truck.
you sir are a magnificent teacher and a wealth of knowledge to the performance enthusiasts! 🏁🏁👍
seems to be another no nonsense test. i love these!
Great presentation. As always. What you showed is great knowledge. That being said..I don't believe the boost gauge is dead. Most drivers are intercooled and don't have control over humidity. This leaves our variable left to MAP. It's the same principle as to why I dont have an IAT gauge or even a water temp gauge on a pillar. The boost level changes with driving attitude and style. It's what our foot has control over.
What did surprise me is that essentially you only gained 10% of your HP from intercooling. And by the look of those EGTs and the sound of surprise in your voice when your turbo supported 600 cranking horses...I think you have more HP to gain just by increasing your CFM numbers. Hm. A CFM efficiency % gauge....
Thanks for making scientific sense not just marketing BS.
Halfway through, this turned into a video selling the idash...
Halfway through? You mean the whole way through. Just because he's selling something doens't mean that the information contained is invalid. Though this isn't new information in the slightest.
If you want to do this yourself, you need an AEM dash display and datalogger and a bunch of sensors: pressure, temperature, humidity. They combined three sensors into one. It is easier to spread those around than to put separate temp and pressure sensors everywhere. It has a cool datalogging function, so you don't have to figure out where to mount a screen etc. I was looking hard at a CD5 setup with a 29 channel CAN module by AEM but have to say this little thing can probably do most of what I need for my project. Only thing is, I don't know if it comes with a great data analysis package like the AEM stuff does. And I don't think it will log turbo rpm sensors. Basically this is for guys who want to push more power through the motor and do it in an informed manner.
better than some jackass telling to go install some shitty phone game.
I'd hope so
Yeah because it's taking about the boost gauge is pointless.
So if you don't have a gauge for it then what do you do to know how much boost the turbo is doing?
Well, I'd say for people who don't have an unlimited supply of turbos, the boost gauge can give an early indication of an issue. Combine that with an egt sensor and someone may be able to save their truck before they unknowingly drive it into the ground. IMO having a gauge is never bad, unless you can't trust it.
This guy is an engine master.
He's a retail marketing master
All he did was do a comparison between an intercooler and not
I dont think anyone has ever stated that boost level is the ultimate parameter to making power. The same level of boost pressure on different engines can result in a huge amount of power difference. 17psi on a Chevy Cruze (Stock pressure btw) is a whole lot different than 17psi on a Chevy Corvette. It's a measuring tool to base tuning parameters on.
Absolutely love Gale's videos! Keep up the great work! Facts over fiction!
To everyone saying “Duh he’s saying inter coolers are good, everybody knows that.”
You missed the point. He’s explaining that measuring the proper variables is more important than just boost pressure, and their product can effectively provide that information.
Greg Vinson for President.
6:53, Jeff is like, "Stop talking Gale, I want to rev this bad boy up!!!"
Customer support was no help to me so maybe this is better:
Air density consists of 3 different data inputs: air temperature, air humidity, and air pressure.
So my question is, without installing a humidity sensor in your intake manifold, how do you accurately record Manifold Air Density? To my current understanding, you can’t take the humidity reading from the air mouse because as soon as the air is heated when it’s compressed and then cooled from the inter cooler, the humidity changes.
When you say customer support was no help, does that mean you called or emailed and go no response or was it that you didn't like the response that you received? The relative humidity changes but the mass of water vapor pressure doesn't. We use pressure ratio and ambient vapor pressure to correct for dry air manifold air density. You only need to know relative humidity in one location. So, an AirMouse is all you need to correctly compensate for humidity. The math is handled in the iDash.
Banks Power first thank you for the explanation.
And when I called, customer support was not trained well enough on their own products to answer my question (that fine, I can understand) so they said they’d call me back. Well they never called me because that’s too much for them too handle.
And I sense a little booty tickle coming from Banks Support? Are you upset I called out Banks on in my other comment for failing to complete his diff cover series and scientifically show us why his diff cover is better?
@@nealarcher1970 Density is not an easy concept for all to grasp. You may have reached one of our more junior staff members that hasn't mastered it just yet. We apolgoize for not returning your call. We didn't see your comment about the diff cover. Gale has not failed. It's just taking longer than we or you would like. We have plenty of data that we'll be sharing soon. We released the videos in real time last year... as we were learning about the various cover design flaws. It wasn't like a TV series that was recorded months prior. During the process, around video number two, Gale sat down to design one with our engineers. Then, after weeks of fine-tuning, it was tested, perfected and sent to production. We had hoped to share the data about the diff cover testing last September but it didn't make sense to share the info and have our competitors race to market with updated covers. We held onto the info in order to time it with our diff cover launch. We'll only get one opportunity to share the data and we want to make it count.
He doesn't address the delta P across the intercooler, or the relationship of the flow thru the IC versus its resistance to flow as boost increases, and the inherent increase in air temp. When you force air thru an IC you reach a point where it can't flow the air without a drastic increase in resistance, and that causes the air temp to shoot up higher as the turbo works harder and super heats the air to a point you're negating the use of the IC
The engine is running and waiting for a pull but everyone is still asking questions and Banks being a gentleman (and proud of his product) continues to answer. While watching this, I was yelling at them to do a fucking pull on the engine! Talk later
time to ditch my classic boost guage and get my self a datamonster and airmouse
When you try to compress air it heats up .. The charge cooler takes the BYU's out of it .. Compress air to a certain pressure and you have the same BYU's but in half the space at 1 Bar
Mr. Banks should start an online Automotive Performance Engineering course. I'd enroll in a heartbeat.
Loving the Cummins marine intercoolers
So it's a must have for bracket racers. This way, no matter the track, you can always run at the same power level.
this is great video, thank you Gale, reminds of me of.having a large cooler with many things running through the cooler packed with ice..The way Dodge uses Ac which we didn't have.....ice makes density in Air...This all so can help to reduce air Temperature, (heat)..So if we can cool the intercooled more, be more HP.....
8 min, 54 seconds. Gale channels John
"Hannibal" Smith!
steve
Was the fuel stay the same too before and after installing cooler? I does not make sense if the fuel supply stay the same.
for someone building their own motor and tuning at home, could someone use these to make educated decisions in regards to parts combos, turbo selection and plumbing efficiency? i understand it is not a dyno but by logic a higher MAD equates to more power production provided you have good af/r, engine/oil temp, so you could make a change and take a log to see if things improved or not?
Click bait. I don't think anyone thinks boost is the ultimate and only number. It's one of many, and still an important one to watch while you're running a car.
Gale you are the man! Not this video to be accurate but rather just in general!
Love this video but how can I get MAD on a old diesel without obd???
clearly the applications of this module are that you can fuck with your intercooling as well as the rest of the air system and actually see what is happening in the system with each change.
I noticed that on my car when is hot and the humidity is high.....we can feel
Considering it is a V8 with a high liter displacement, 56 horsepower gain is not really that much. Perhaps you could have played with the timing more and tuned it for even more with the intercooler upgrade.
I was expecting something else, but this seems like a no brainer to me. This is why you pay attention in science class.
Why do people even try to outsmart this man
Gale is the Man!!But Does it work with OBD-0 or OBD-I?? Or just OBD-II?
We have now available for Aftermarket ECUs that will work.We also have a pre-CAN (OBD-II/1) coming out in mid-first quarter.
You know, I was actually reluctant to come around to this idea by Mr. Banks, but I'm slowly starting to accept it. I'm just _really_ used to seeing boost gauges, I suppose we all are. Boost gauge may not be totally useless, but it's just a really incomplete picture compared to what MAD can illustrate.
methanol injection was big years ago but none talks about it anymore.....its chemical cooling, just like the intercooler.....does anybody know why?
It's still awesome. You can just use water or windshield washer fluid.
@ike fun not very expensive at all compared to nitrous or anything like that
I think E85 KILLED IT.
It is what it is......my friend used to build motors and he thought it was the next big thing........but he lost the business lol I guess he was wrong
You been living in a recluse somewhere ? water/methanol injection is huge, and has been for a very long time and there are dozens of suppliers, with tens of thousands of users. It is very common.
A boost gauge is still a very useful gauge, especially with an analogue needle. You can see at a glance if the turbo system is working correctly and how much load the engine is under by the angle and movement of the needle, no need for maths and focusing on a digital display for longer than you should need to.
I have a 427 sbc vortec supercharger with no intercooler it made around 627 hp with an intercooler it made 730 hp and lost boost. So yeah an intercooler will add hp. It was around 11.9 psi with no intercooler and just shy of 10psi with the intercooler. Same pulley nothing changed.
excellent video great educational I already knew this about cold air in density👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great information. Keep it comming.
So by data logging and with the ability to read track and weather conditions the guys racing ETs at the drag strip can use that information to get the most they can out of their motor while still being able to tune down so they don't break out as the conditions change throughout the day..?
when the A-TEAM needs help they call GALE BANKS....
Would the air mouse be made even more practical if it was mounted inside the air filter box pre filter. that way it would be accounting for how the environment is being affected by the engine compartment.
Maybe do a video with restrictors between the turbo and manifold? Show people how X PSI could differ between one motor and another. The restrictors could act like smaller valves. It showed people lied to similar size motors with the same boost can make completely different horsepower because of how they flow
Dang it Gale you've done it again. Now I've got to get some diff covers and see if an iDash would work for my 12 valve.
I was curious what the charge air temp was for each run. Also it looked like that was a water to air i/c? What was the water temp going through it?
Great educational info WITH advertisement for the iDash Devices. I almost didn't catch that this is a well disguised advertisement for Banks iDash. If the discussion in the middle was less than 5 minutes on how great the iDash is really it is really great and versatile and really great and better than stock and records great and is really great, I would not have noticed.
AND... Where are the rest of the Diff Cover Videos?!?
You repeat yourself too much....
Extremely helpful thank you! So now I need to add an intercooler to the Sidewinder on my GM 6.2L? :)
You can, in fact, intercool a NA engine. It won't do anything and the extra parts in the intake will be more restrictive than your factory intake but you can do it.
@@406Steven
He's talking about a Banks Sidewinder turbo'd 6.2 GM diesel......
What if banks designed a heads up display idash that projects onto the windshield. No more holes and pillar mounts
What if? 😉
This cant be news to anyone at this point though. But off course this is "Amazing Discoveries" with your host Mike Levy.
It's news to about 90% of those who watch it.
So you said humidity plays a factor. What difference does high and low humidity make