Okay, making this video has been an uncomfortable process. I don't want to offend the very helpful people in Orania who made this video possible, and yet at the same time I want to make my own views on segregation and apartheid clear. Anyway, I hope that I somehow struck the right balance. Some of the sources used to make this video include: Wired magazine: www.wired.com/story/inside-an-all-white-towns-divisive-experiment-with-cryptocurrency/ Carel Boschoff interview about the current direction for Orania: www.iol.co.za/sundayindependent/orania-leader-true-racists-love-to-hate-1921468 Was Rachel de Beer American? web.archive.org/web/20121014162324/www.dieburger.com/By/Nuus/Was-Racheltjie-eintlik-n-Amerikaner-20121006
I think you did well, it's really hard to talk about anything to do with South Africa neutrally at the best of times. I hate the idea of segregation in all forms and share Nelson Mandela's dream , but its still quite challenging to talk about this whilst giving due credit to the people of the town who don't really seem to be hurting anyone. It seems to me like Orania is quite subtly wrong in that it clings to a terrible past instead of looking forward to a better future. It seems like the vast majority of white South Africans and a good many middle class people of other ethnic groups have to live in compounds and gated communities for their own safety, and the sad fact is that there are many Oranias in the Republic, but they are nominally economically segregated rather than culturally/racially segregated. Theoretically in this context I personally don't find it to be a moral outrage necessarily that white Afrikaners might choose to live together like this, any more than I would with Zulu or Tswana people having their own communities, but the presence of statues of truly evil men puts it in a less neutral light for me. Celebrating Afrikaners as hardy settlers and authentic Africans of European ancestry is just fine (though again I don't agree with creating a segregated town to accomplish this), but celebrating the builders of Apartheid is unacceptable. There are too many horrors from that era to mention in a feature length documentary, even in passing. Apartheid took away the dignity of every South African and you can feel it even as an outsider to this day. The whites have to live with the guilt, shame, crime and instability caused by persecuting black people and never allowing them to be a part of society, and the black people have to struggle to create wealth and equity in the wake of 100 years of being dehumanised and robbed, with minimal help. I don't see how anyone could defend Apartheid but I sort of feel sorry for everyone involved except the leaders who masterminded it. Another fascinating video, I applaud you for calling out the horrible aspects of Orania whilst correcting some misinformation so people can form their own opinion. I hope South Africa can truly become a rainbow nation where Apartheid is firmly consigned to history but never forgotten.
@@veryveryintense Wow, thanks for the detailed reaction! I agree with everything you say about South Africa, and I think you have a similar reaction to Orania that I do. What I didn't explain, to save on length, is that the current leader of Orania, Carl Bashoff, is the grandson of the "architect of apartheid," and that one of the busts on Monument Hill is of his grandfather! I saw an interview where he says he understands why people might think they are celebrating apartheid with these statues, but that they are really celebrating Afrikaner leaders instead. I don't think that really washes - as a descendent of Confederate veterans I could say that about Confederate iconography, but the reality is Confederate symbols are deeply hurtful to millions of people, and the regime they represented was deeply immoral. As a human being, I can't ignore that context, or the reality of the history even if it did involve members of my family! Thanks again for watching!
@@FredoRockwell fully agreed on the heritage excuse for CSA and this case! Really interesting to hear there are blood ties to the old regime. Really enjoying all the videos, hope you get the viewer base you deserve and keep it up.
Hi Fredo. Relax mate, we do not offend easily. Excellent well balanced analysis. We have experienced a considerable influx of people since the lockdown. The increasing residential demand do drive up property prices though. Our economy is blooming with a growing GDP. Our friendly demeanor is ensuring global positivity towards us. 👍
Thank you! And it's good to hear things are going well in Orania! I'm glad to hear you think it was well balanced - I may try to revisit the subject again someday.
@@unioneitaliana7107 No I love my fellow Europeans, and aboriginals I don't despise, they're just a part of nature. I despise all the Indians, asians, blacks and Arabs in this country, and proudly so
Yes, please do - that would be very interesting to follow live! Any technology launch has a lot of challenges and I can only imagine the pressure to get it exactly right when you've got people's money at stake! Best of luck.
@@ruaanvandyk8667 All the best to Orania & it's residents. You are doing absolutely right. I'm not supporting a sort of apartheid but I don't think Orania is apartheid. The black majority of SA are victimising the whites which is wrong. I try to watch videos of Orania & I wish you the best.
Orania is the answer to discrimination from the majority elected government and its supporters. Afrikaans schools are forced to go double medium or even full english. Afrikaners are called settlers and white capitalists. We are subject to Black Economic Empowerment laws. Little to nothing is done by the government to protect our farmers who are tortured and murdered like animals. Orania combats this hate and discrimination by depending on themselves and creating a future for themselves through hard work. Orania isnt a whites only town, its Afrikaner Cultural town. If Orania didnt do as well as they do, the racist people that hate them wouldnt even pay attention..
I'm a white Afrikaner and I won't get into Orania. Neither would I want to live there. I have a modern lifestyle integrated with the other cultures of South Africa. Orania is a cultural enclave and I'm glad it exists because it serves as a private museum for Afrikaner culture which is understandably neglected by the black government. South Africa is a multicultural diverse nation and other cultures also undertake their own cultural activities. This obsession with being bothered by Orania is hypocritical and somewhat pathetic, considering it was built from scratch in the middle of nowhere and thriving to no outsider's detriment. Its residents pay taxes to the RSA and complies with all the laws. Rather use successful Orania as a template for preserving your own cultures and leave them be.
As an insider of the MK, we are planning to launch an application to denounce Orania, it will only remain a settlement and private company Our Advocate Dali Mpofu SC has already prepared the papers See you in Court Afri Forum😊
South Africa is going down the pan. I’m not sure what your situation is so I can’t comment on it. If I lived in SA I would move to Orania, or help create some other place like it. If feel especially sorry for those who own property in SA. How can they leave where they are? Who will buy their property in majority Sub Saharan African neighbourhoods
There are already similar communities in America. The Amish, white supremacists in Northern Idaho, Mormon fundamentalists in Montana, Utah and Arizona, and more.
My brother and I are planning on moving to Orania this year and it's great to see less biased news about the town. Some people focus too much on the segregation part, some too much on the past, and some are optomistic see peace, and this video was a good blend. I must however point out a few things about Orania, the land issue, the Volkstaat and South African issues in general and some of it might be hard to swallow, especially for non-South Africans, but people within our nation will often reiterate what I write here : The Volkstaat is still an ideal for many Afrikaner nationalists who see their political power, economical situation and welcome in South Africa diminish. Many move oversees to the UK, Canada, Australia or New Zealand. Orania was indeed the first town that was built with this ideal in mind, but not the only one. There are a few others, such as Kleinfontein, Eureka and Groendorp along with a few farms that have been made into small housing facilities for Afrikaners. The point of the Volkstaat is for all the Afrikaners in this region to be a majority in the region, then we can have a referendum to 'exit' South Africa' and create a new country or make a new state with our own laws like Quebec, Canada. South Africa's "Rainbow Nation" idea died after Mandela left office. Back then there was hope for unification and non-racialism, but soon the problems arose. White people have been to blame for everything in the country even if everything in the past 30 years after Apartheid also failed, miserably, like ESKOM (our electricity supplier) which is bankrupt and which cuts power to major cities for several hours so that the infrastructure doesn't implode; PRASA (Railways) which are also bankrupt, all trains run late and the main line into Cape Town has been cut for the last few months due to the rail lines being stolen. In 2015 there were trains on fire nearly weekly and 7 trains crashed into eachother that year. DENEL (weapons factory) also broke. SABC (News and media) broke and corrupt, government for a while controlled what could and couldn't be shown in the news. ETCETERA! The people have their own cultural and ethnic clusterings. With so many different groups, it's easy to spot how our tribalistic instincts come forward and make us group rogether with the same people as us. There was never really a "Rainbow Nation" apart from the fact that the different groups live separately within one entity. The land ussue is a huge factor of hate and fear in this country. A fear of a civil war, a fear of economic turmoil and hate for people who don't have control over what happend in the past. Julius Malema, ruler of the 3rd largest political party in the country, is a staunch Black Supremacist who hates the Asians, Coloureds and Whites. He frequently promotes the idea of killing White people and taking our land and redistributing it among the Black people. To explain it in much better detail, here is a documentary: ruclips.net/video/qhMqc7exTus/видео.html Now all these things, from crime, to government corruption, to hate surrounding who's land is it anyeays, to economic reasons and to inherent human nature to be with your own kind, Orania was an answer to many of these problems.The things that kept people from ever really moving there and perhaps settle other Afrikaner towns (till recently) was the lack of resources for a sugnificant industry for an economy, an infrastructure to support the people and the businesses, a lack of high paying jobs and most importantly, a reason to leave South Africa's ideals behind and semigrate, and those reasons have been stacking up higher and higher yearly. An economy was fested in Orania, the infrastructure is being built and needs meeted and the idea of a Volkstaat seems more and more promising each day that passes. Orania has great allianses/diplomatic ties to other places with similar outlooks as them, such as a Xhosa town in the Eastern Cape (Speaking of which, there are hundreds of Black only towns still in the original Bantustans that were made for each Bantu ethnic group), Hopetown (a community of Coloured (not mixed) people), South-Tyrol (a German population in Italy) and Vlaandere.
Thank you very much for this comment! First of all, I'm pleased that you thought the video was fair - I really wasn't sure how it would come across to anyone in Orania or the larger Afrikaner community. But also I really appreciated the explanation you gave, and hearing that you have decided to move to Orania! I think as someone outside of South Africa it is easy to look at the larger picture and list all of the problems, and say this or that should be done, or not be done, but for individuals living in South Africa it is not possible to come to such neat conclusions. I can totally understand why an Afrikaner who has grown up since majority rule would feel unfairly treated today. It must feel like you are being penalized for the actions of previous generations. And yet, while I don't condone the calls by the EFF to get rid of Orania, I do understand how that message could be effective for EFF politicians in some communities. Thank you for the names of those other communities. I came across Eureka, but it was unclear to me how legitimate an effort this was. I will also look into the others now. I really wish you the best of luck as you "semigrate" (this is a new word for me - thank you) and I hope you and your brother have a happy, safe, and peaceful new life!
@@FredoRockwell Thank you for responding, I didn't notice till I came back to your channel now😅 I suppose it is easier as an outsider to look at the full picture, but being immersed in the actual picture is so different, like watching an old video of someone you know, but you won't know the touch or the smells, only a clear view of that moment at hand, and that's what makes things different for us. I was not born during Apartheid, nor was my brother. The younger generation post-Apartheid have seen how we have become sidelined, our history torn down and our people ridiculed and even murdered. The EFF hasn't helped with that at all, and of course, like all political parties they have slogans that make the people vote for them. They've just targeted things in an approach that is reprehensible, to say the least. And it is working, as year-on-year their membership grows. Their playing a tune that the masses want to hear. Though I think if they come to power it won't have been all talk and no bite... As for Eureka, I've done a bit more research myself. It is a movement (like Orania is) to build more towns and Eureka was the first town and Groendorp is its second town. Their ideals are a bit different than that of Orania, like the Afrikaner saying goes, "If two Afrikaners were stranded on an island, within the day there will be two political ideologies and three different church denominations"😂 They have sparked a lot of interest throughout the Afrikaner community. I think at last count they had over 9000 members (half of Orania's membership) who help build the infrastructure in both towns via a raffle system. Eureka sells the raffles for R100 each and they have one large winner and several small winners and so they get to win half of the money that had been assembled and the rest the Eureka Movement keep. And they've only recently won the rights to build their Afrikaner towns in the high-court, which is why it didn't look as if it was an actual effort. It may be a good idea to search them up on Facebook, where it's a direct pathway to them, bypassing the media representation of them entirely. Thank you for the well wishes, I appreciate it a lot!😊
You can make your Quebec Canada in Europe not here in South Africa or Africa as a whole, you guys are wasting time and resources, this Orania thing is not going anywhere
@@FredoRockwell not to go back if they don't want but to acknowledge their European background , don't deny your roots just because you want to be Africans so desperately just because you was born in Africa
As a South African citizen part of the majority, I can see the efficiency of the ora in terms mitigating socio-economic issues related to crime. However, it does raise questions on Orania's supply chain. How do they comply with regulations posed in primary, secondary and tertiary sectors of the economy? If the community exercises self-efficiency in those sectors as well, are the levels of production sufficient enough to constitute a sustainable local economy? How will they maintain equilibrium between population growth and the availability of resources when they are independent on South Africa's "plummeting economy"? I feel that Orania's values and governance supplemented by population growth will initiate political unrest in the country in the years to come.
Orania is a tiny town of around 3,000 people with a self-sustaining local economy. In the large town where I live, our bumper harvests are supplied to an agricultural co-op where it is then processed in the city and down the line the local branch of a national supermarket sells those processed products to us for significantly more than we supplied the same product at and again extracts that profit from this community - this is madness where we create a raw product generating massive wealth in the processing chain, all of which ends up in the pockets of those in the well-off cities with only a limited benefit to a relatively poor local community. In Orania what is produced locally is largely processed and consumed locally with a modest harvest of pecan nuts being the major product sold outside of Orania. There simply are no large companies with multiple shareholders that are affected by BEEE regulations in Orania. Instead a number of small businesses trading with each other largely curtails the erosion of wealth from their community while new entrants coming to live in Orania introduces further wealth into that community which allows the community to grow and expand.
I seems fairly well thought out to me, and I think they've been wise to sidestep the cryptocurrency hype. But there are local currencies all around the world so I wouldn't call it brilliance. What's remarkable about the Ora is its longevity. Most local currencies struggle to remain relevant for more than a few years.
As a dutchman I can tell you right now all dutch cultures are stubborn, these people will not give up and this town will grow to be the biggest in the district by 2060 of we calculate with exponential growth. Current population - 2800 Growth rate 10 %
Wow, I guess that might alter local politics a bit. But actually, I don't think many Oranians vote in local elections, so maybe it won't have a big impact on things as long as Orania is left to its own affairs.
@@FredoRockwell honesty local politics really dont matter for orania, like you mentioned earlier it is a private business of a town. They own many acres of land and can decide what to do with it. They already are one of the biggest nut farmers in the province and are now investing in solar energy (already a profitable business in the district capital of De Aar). The future looks bright for the little town and many Afrikaners and even some Dutch people are moving to Orania. In contrast to the rest of South Africa they have a very planned economy and construction projects. The town is also significantly more safe than other towns in the area which gives it an edge in pretty much everything. Its amazing to look at the numbers and see just how efficient the economy of the town is despite its small population.
Across the world many places have local currencies that are merely a rebranding of the national currency with the permission of the central bank. The ORA in Orania is in not in any way an independent currency but for every Ora in circulation a Rand is taken out of circulation and deposited at the Reserve Bank.
Any group of people have the right to self determination and the right to freedom of association. If Afrikaners want to keep themselves to themselves that’s fine. They can still trade and have relations with foreigners. South Africa is going down the drain. These guys have the right idea.
I'm a big supporter of the freedom of association, as I guess you'll know if you watched the video, so an Afrikaner-only community on private property should be allowed to exist (and only if it exists without government support). I'm not a believer in a general right to self-determination (setting up a new country, I mean). If a group of people are being systematically oppressed by their government over time, I think there's an argument to be made, but only in pretty extreme circumstances.
@@FredoRockwell I think the current state of South Africa is a good enough reason to segregate voluntarily. Personally speaking. But that goes for all groups not just Afrikaners.
You pronounce most Afrikaans words not too badly, apart from "klein reus". The "ei" in Afrikaans sounds like the "ai" in English "main". The "eu" in Afrikaans like the "ieu" in "monsieur". Thank you for the interesting video.
You made your position quite clear buddy😂 what you don’t realize is that a diverse range of unique cultures only exist due to separation and preservation. Diversity kills a unique culture no matter if it was white or any other race
Hey, buddy! 🤗 I realize how distinct cultures evolve. I just value individual human rights more than the rights of conservatives based on subjective, abstractions. 🙂
@@noodlyappendage6729 It's not a matter of subjectivity. I just don't think communities"should have rights over individuals. A community is an abstract concept, whereas a person is flesh and blook. When such rules are put into place, someone has to be appointed (or elected, but come to power somehow) to speak for the community. This subjective viewpoint of what the community needs is used to exert power over individuals. This is how you get laws that women must or mustn't wear certain items of clothing, men must have long or short hair, children must be taught certain books, and that sort of thing.
@@FredoRockwell Thank you for making the video by the way. It's one of the best I've seen on RUclips. For me the right of the community is also important. At the end of the day all a community is is essentially a tribe. Tribes are extremely important for people. They are a fundamental human need. A community for a human is as important as a colony for an ant, a pack for a canine, or a pride for a lion. It is not something that I would say is subjective.
Yes, sure! They're reasonably common in America and Europe, but they often only last for a few years at a time. The pandemic killed off the Bristol Pound here in the UK, which is the one nearest to me. 😮 Anyway, thank you for the suggestion! I will see what I can do!
Actually, UBI and local currencies work in different ways. Normally, a local currency is just a one-for-one swap of whatever the main currency is in use. So in Bristol, there were Bristol Pounds which you could buy for one pound each, and spend in local shops. That's how the Ora works too. Some schemes use a different valuation system, like Ithaca Hours in Ithaca, New York, are meant to be worth an hour of work each. That ends up being more of a bartering system. But UBI, is the normal currency just being given to people to spend, with a goal of reducing poverty and individual financial stress. I guess they are both ways of using money to effect social change, but otherwise very different. But I'm now thinking a UBI video would be good...
They're both interesting concepts tried in different ways. Really interesting to see which versions do better than others. I'd never heard of the Bristol pound before, but when it's "free money" there might be more of an incentive to use it.
@@FredoRockwell lol I'd probably not be allowed in via the vetting process. I mean I do speak Afrikaans.... And I may hay some Dutch heritage from the settler days.... But who knows lol.
Why would you want to dedicate your life to Afrikaner culture? Why not build a cultural village with the people you want to associate with? Their main vetting criteria is Christian, Afrikaans speaking and Afrikaner.
SMWX "Orania’s dark history: the story of South Africa’s whites-only town" video on RUclips is none-bias and speaks the truth about the architects of Oriana are the same architects of Apartheid. SMWX video is Worth watching
Discussing the validity of Orania , without putting the employment- discrimination ,plundering, torturing and murdering the Africaners endure into the equation seems to lead to an irrelevant conclusion, regardless of who is doing the enquireing.No one I have heard of ,seems concerned that english decendants are equaly barred from the community.This would lead me to conclude that jelousy is a motive for desention.I would venture that the greatest part of the prosperity is due to being resposable,and especialy being independant from the enslaving grip of world economy.
Thanks for watching! I'm going to disagree with your first point, but not in a way you expect. I think anyone and everyone should have the right of association - the right to associate with whoever they want - as long as it is done peacefully. So I think Orania is a valid project (as you put it) merely because it is a group of people who want to live together. Whether or not they are discriminated against elsewhere doesn't need to be relevant to this. By positioning Afrikaners as victims, I think it makes it seem like you have to be a victim to have the right to associate as you want, and I don't think that's true.
That's my attitude. I don't think dividing up the world into racial or cultural groups is a good idea, but if people want to peacefully form their own communities and live their lives how they choose, that's fine with me.
Thank you and thanks for watching! When I look Gazania up online I get it listed under the common name "African Daisy." I suspect this might be a name used in the UK, which is why I'm seeing it. Thanks for the clarification!
Good question! One thing I do know that I didn't mention: Orania receives no local government services from Northern Cape Province. So maybe they don't pay any? Our maybe they do but they have to keep track of their Ora transactions?
@@FredoRockwell Oranians do pay taxes unfortunately, even if they receive nothing in return from the South African government and the larger muniscipality that they form part of. I think it's a wealth tax that they pay, which starts at 8% for the poorer people and can go up to 28% for the rich. Then they also pay for amenities like water, garbage collection etc. to Orania's town council and because Orania is run as a corporation due to everything being private property for the residents, all the residents are shareholders and pay a certain amount to be part if that, but it's also a great way to make money depending on how much you invest into the town.
Not at all surprised to hear that Oranians pay taxes, and for services they then don't receive. On its face it sounds unfair, but I can't imagine any government would let any community live that separately!
This as an awesome video. Also one of the most objective descriptions of Orania. All the ones I've found are all either blatantly pro-Afrikaans or like that France24 video... They are there own ethnicity and people, what is bad about them grouping together? Isnt that what countries are? I think the sole reason they are seen as a vestige of apartheid or a bunch of white supremecists is solely based on the millstone that is dragging down on every Afrikaner. Their ethnicity introduced and promoted apartheid. And judging and ostracising an entire ethnicity based solely on one political decision from almost 70 years ago now seems lopsided at best and racist at worst. Thank you for such an awesome video. I subbed
Glad you liked the video! I've had more than a few negative comments from people who were outraged I had tried to be balanced 😂 (none of whom were from South Africa, as far as I know). Thanks for the sub!
There's nothing bad about it. The problem is that there are people who are revenge and frustrated with the fate of the country and need to elect villains for their political speeches. Afrikaners are people who want to live their lives and raise their families. Remember what happened to Rhodesia.
Haba tlohe mona bare tlisetsa moea oa liqabang..kea makala naa re oetseng keng athe meleko ke ena mona e ithehileng thajana e nahaha hore ea iphelela naheng ea habo Rona..khutlelang moo le tsoang teng le seke lare leka joalo kaha le ile la leka bo Ntata Rona Moholo ha joale ke rona ba teng Tlohang mona
Thanks for watching! I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "go back to where you came from," but if you are directing this at the descendants of European settlers, who were born in South Africa of course, saying "go back to where you came from" would be considered a racist thing to say where I came from. In 2019, US President Donald Trump tweeted about a group of four minority US congresswomen (three of whom were born in the US) saying, “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.” Trump's comment was condemned as racist by much of the US media. I don't support racial segregation, but I do support the right of people to peacefully associate with whoever they want to on whatever grounds they choose. This shouldn't be seen as a threat by anyone - again, as long as this is done peacefully. And it's certainly not right to tell people who choose to live this way to "go back where they came from."
@@FredoRockwell kere lona le khutlele habo lona le bontsa le tlisa karohano e ngata hoo le seng le bile le hopola hore leka etsa sebaka sa lona Naheng eo le tsebang hantle hore ho tloha ho baholo ba lona le bajaki mona...Tsamaeang le tlohe mona lere baketse pherekano..Ho lekane hae sale khale nakong eo le neng le hopola hore tsohle li matsohong a lona.
@@lehlohonolosetlai8236 The Google translate version of your comment didn't make sense, sorry. But if you are telling me to go home, are you saying I need to leave the UK and go back to the US? Why is that relevant to this video?
@@FredoRockwell Letla ka hore Khotso ho Rona batho ba phelang mona Africa ka kakaretso hape ke lona le tlisitseng libetsa tse kotsi tsena 'moho le polotiki e tsamaeang le lehloeo le tibileng..ke tihisitse ha kere le khutlele Naheng ea habo lona lere baketse bofutsana le bofuma le tlokotsi e fitisisang Africa mona..le ikhapela maruo a lihloliloeng tsa Naha tsa Rona ka boqitolo..hale qeta lere bolella ka khotso eo le senang Eona..Sheba bana ba heno ba phelang mona Orania bare Sebaka kesa bona haba hloke merabe ea batho ba batso moo.. haba tlile le sona sebaka seo ho tloha koaa moo ba tsoang teng haese hona hotla iketsa Melingoana ea Rona moo Afrika e tlase...Tlohang mona moho le uena le tlisitse pherekano sechabeng sa Rantso kaho re tlela ka Melingoana ea linaheng tsa lona...Khutlelang habo lona le joale..
@@lehlohonolosetlai8236 I'm an American. I live in the UK. I've been to Africa many times, but only on short visits and I've not yet had the chance to visit South Africa. I hope to some day. I understand the anger that you feel, but telling people of any heritage to leave the country of their birth and to "go back home" is racist. It is a statement which relies on the idea that white people have to live separately from people of other colours. This was, of course, the idea behind apartheid, which did so much damage to South African society.
Lets not overlook that British and Dutch founded South Africa, a no mans land region of the African Continent. Naive people think Black own or are Africa, not knowing Black races are only from the Central part of Africa. South Africa had no people in it, other than the San People that were nomadic, herding livestock through out Africa, and had a home base in Angolia come Namiba. Now they are static in South Africa due to financial benefit. The Zulu also not native to SA, and home lands at South Africa's eastern border. Mandela's people a sub tribe of Zulu. Most of the Blacks in SA are from illegal invasion and other encouraged by factories, owned by Jews. Also Farmers started relying on Black labour. Over time SA imported Indians and other races, and slowly their nation was hijacked.
Actually, these are exactly the sort of facts that must be overlooked in a fair and just society. Where someone's ancestors are from, and especially what the religion/ethnicity their ancestors' employers were, is only relevant for creating a society with second and third class citizens - or worse
@JimmyCall I'd liked to make trace irrelevant to the state. If private citizens want to form an exclusive group based on cultural differences, I think it should be allowed. If someone wants to use the state to enforce rigid racial boundaries in society I think this should be opposed. Basically, people should be allowed to pursue a lifestyle of their choice peacefully and non-coercively, not through state force.
SA should order Orania to remove the busts of leaders with blood on their hands who caused untold racial suffering + remove that flag that has no place in SA which has a flag already. Use only SA money because that's the only currency that should be used. If they want to use vouchers in their area fine let them people can buy vouchers but only at a government-run bank in Orania, because of the low risk of crime this should be priced a bit more too.
Thanks for watching! I think "invaded" is a bit strong, though! Arguably their ancestors "invaded," but even then the Boers (as I understand it) tended to try and settle on unoccupied land at different points during their history. But, to be fair, I think Orania is certainly a response to the changes in South African society and political power - that is pretty clear.
@@FredoRockwellTheir ancestors settled different lands (partly) to continue their slavery. Where did they get these slaves? But I think it's very clear it was an invasion by the fact that they fought wars with the Zulu kingdom to occupy land for their own use. (ruclips.net/video/L8L62JWy8FQ/видео.html en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaners I know this isn't any good evidence, but I think its better than nothing to prove the base facts?)
@@user-mc5wc5jm4f did the Zulus systematically oppress those who didn't share their skin colour? Did they create systemic racism for the past 400 years?
@@robbedeboer2728 The Bantu Expansion resulted in the systemic oppression (genocide and slavery) of the Khoi and San people. It's disingenuous to ignore it because Bantu agression towards non-Zulus in this context shared a pigment.
Okay, making this video has been an uncomfortable process. I don't want to offend the very helpful people in Orania who made this video possible, and yet at the same time I want to make my own views on segregation and apartheid clear. Anyway, I hope that I somehow struck the right balance.
Some of the sources used to make this video include:
Wired magazine: www.wired.com/story/inside-an-all-white-towns-divisive-experiment-with-cryptocurrency/
Carel Boschoff interview about the current direction for Orania: www.iol.co.za/sundayindependent/orania-leader-true-racists-love-to-hate-1921468
Was Rachel de Beer American? web.archive.org/web/20121014162324/www.dieburger.com/By/Nuus/Was-Racheltjie-eintlik-n-Amerikaner-20121006
I think you did well, it's really hard to talk about anything to do with South Africa neutrally at the best of times. I hate the idea of segregation in all forms and share Nelson Mandela's dream , but its still quite challenging to talk about this whilst giving due credit to the people of the town who don't really seem to be hurting anyone.
It seems to me like Orania is quite subtly wrong in that it clings to a terrible past instead of looking forward to a better future. It seems like the vast majority of white South Africans and a good many middle class people of other ethnic groups have to live in compounds and gated communities for their own safety, and the sad fact is that there are many Oranias in the Republic, but they are nominally economically segregated rather than culturally/racially segregated. Theoretically in this context I personally don't find it to be a moral outrage necessarily that white Afrikaners might choose to live together like this, any more than I would with Zulu or Tswana people having their own communities, but the presence of statues of truly evil men puts it in a less neutral light for me. Celebrating Afrikaners as hardy settlers and authentic Africans of European ancestry is just fine (though again I don't agree with creating a segregated town to accomplish this), but celebrating the builders of Apartheid is unacceptable. There are too many horrors from that era to mention in a feature length documentary, even in passing.
Apartheid took away the dignity of every South African and you can feel it even as an outsider to this day. The whites have to live with the guilt, shame, crime and instability caused by persecuting black people and never allowing them to be a part of society, and the black people have to struggle to create wealth and equity in the wake of 100 years of being dehumanised and robbed, with minimal help. I don't see how anyone could defend Apartheid but I sort of feel sorry for everyone involved except the leaders who masterminded it.
Another fascinating video, I applaud you for calling out the horrible aspects of Orania whilst correcting some misinformation so people can form their own opinion. I hope South Africa can truly become a rainbow nation where Apartheid is firmly consigned to history but never forgotten.
@@veryveryintense Wow, thanks for the detailed reaction! I agree with everything you say about South Africa, and I think you have a similar reaction to Orania that I do. What I didn't explain, to save on length, is that the current leader of Orania, Carl Bashoff, is the grandson of the "architect of apartheid," and that one of the busts on Monument Hill is of his grandfather! I saw an interview where he says he understands why people might think they are celebrating apartheid with these statues, but that they are really celebrating Afrikaner leaders instead. I don't think that really washes - as a descendent of Confederate veterans I could say that about Confederate iconography, but the reality is Confederate symbols are deeply hurtful to millions of people, and the regime they represented was deeply immoral. As a human being, I can't ignore that context, or the reality of the history even if it did involve members of my family! Thanks again for watching!
@@FredoRockwell fully agreed on the heritage excuse for CSA and this case! Really interesting to hear there are blood ties to the old regime. Really enjoying all the videos, hope you get the viewer base you deserve and keep it up.
Hi Fredo. Relax mate, we do not offend easily. Excellent well balanced analysis.
We have experienced a considerable influx of people since the lockdown. The increasing residential demand do drive up property prices though. Our economy is blooming with a growing GDP. Our friendly demeanor is ensuring global positivity towards us. 👍
Thank you! And it's good to hear things are going well in Orania! I'm glad to hear you think it was well balanced - I may try to revisit the subject again someday.
Long live Orania. I'm donating from Australia. I love everything they are doing and hope we see more of this across the world.
I’m from America and I want to know how can I donate? I also love all of this and hope to visit soon
From Australia? Let my guess. You despise aboriginals, Italians, Greeks, Slavs and so on?
@@unioneitaliana7107 No I love my fellow Europeans, and aboriginals I don't despise, they're just a part of nature.
I despise all the Indians, asians, blacks and Arabs in this country, and proudly so
@@unioneitaliana7107 Get a life.
@@noodlyappendage6729 be nice and friendly with other people. Anglosaxons are not the master race.
Proud to be a "Oraniër"! And even more proud to be one of the creators of the dOra.
Wow! Thanks for watching then - I hope the launch goes well.
Yes, please do - that would be very interesting to follow live! Any technology launch has a lot of challenges and I can only imagine the pressure to get it exactly right when you've got people's money at stake! Best of luck.
@@ruaanvandyk8667 All the best to Orania & it's residents. You are doing absolutely right. I'm not supporting a sort of apartheid but I don't think Orania is apartheid. The black majority of SA are victimising the whites which is wrong. I try to watch videos of Orania & I wish you the best.
You a real Oranier? Wow, this place sounds amazing
There should not be forced segregation, or forced integration, anyway.
Orania is the answer to discrimination from the majority elected government and its supporters.
Afrikaans schools are forced to go double medium or even full english.
Afrikaners are called settlers and white capitalists.
We are subject to Black Economic Empowerment laws.
Little to nothing is done by the government to protect our farmers who are tortured and murdered like animals.
Orania combats this hate and discrimination by depending on themselves and creating a future for themselves through hard work.
Orania isnt a whites only town, its Afrikaner Cultural town.
If Orania didnt do as well as they do, the racist people that hate them wouldnt even pay attention..
SPOT ON
I'm a white Afrikaner and I won't get into Orania. Neither would I want to live there. I have a modern lifestyle integrated with the other cultures of South Africa. Orania is a cultural enclave and I'm glad it exists because it serves as a private museum for Afrikaner culture which is understandably neglected by the black government. South Africa is a multicultural diverse nation and other cultures also undertake their own cultural activities. This obsession with being bothered by Orania is hypocritical and somewhat pathetic, considering it was built from scratch in the middle of nowhere and thriving to no outsider's detriment. Its residents pay taxes to the RSA and complies with all the laws. Rather use successful Orania as a template for preserving your own cultures and leave them be.
As an insider of the MK, we are planning to launch an application to denounce Orania, it will only remain a settlement and private company
Our Advocate Dali Mpofu SC has already prepared the papers
See you in Court Afri Forum😊
South Africa is going down the pan. I’m not sure what your situation is so I can’t comment on it. If I lived in SA I would move to Orania, or help create some other place like it. If feel especially sorry for those who own property in SA. How can they leave where they are? Who will buy their property in majority Sub Saharan African neighbourhoods
W Orania, support Orania from Italy
With the way things are going in the US, not a bad idea here too.
There are already similar communities in America. The Amish, white supremacists in Northern Idaho, Mormon fundamentalists in Montana, Utah and Arizona, and more.
We need Pro-European American activism.
I would love to see a full Strange Politics video on the politics of Orania!
That's good to know! I'll add it to my list of video topics. 😀
My brother and I are planning on moving to Orania this year and it's great to see less biased news about the town. Some people focus too much on the segregation part, some too much on the past, and some are optomistic see peace, and this video was a good blend.
I must however point out a few things about Orania, the land issue, the Volkstaat and South African issues in general and some of it might be hard to swallow, especially for non-South Africans, but people within our nation will often reiterate what I write here :
The Volkstaat is still an ideal for many Afrikaner nationalists who see their political power, economical situation and welcome in South Africa diminish. Many move oversees to the UK, Canada, Australia or New Zealand. Orania was indeed the first town that was built with this ideal in mind, but not the only one. There are a few others, such as Kleinfontein, Eureka and Groendorp along with a few farms that have been made into small housing facilities for Afrikaners. The point of the Volkstaat is for all the Afrikaners in this region to be a majority in the region, then we can have a referendum to 'exit' South Africa' and create a new country or make a new state with our own laws like Quebec, Canada.
South Africa's "Rainbow Nation" idea died after Mandela left office. Back then there was hope for unification and non-racialism, but soon the problems arose. White people have been to blame for everything in the country even if everything in the past 30 years after Apartheid also failed, miserably, like ESKOM (our electricity supplier) which is bankrupt and which cuts power to major cities for several hours so that the infrastructure doesn't implode; PRASA (Railways) which are also bankrupt, all trains run late and the main line into Cape Town has been cut for the last few months due to the rail lines being stolen. In 2015 there were trains on fire nearly weekly and 7 trains crashed into eachother that year. DENEL (weapons factory) also broke. SABC (News and media) broke and corrupt, government for a while controlled what could and couldn't be shown in the news. ETCETERA!
The people have their own cultural and ethnic clusterings. With so many different groups, it's easy to spot how our tribalistic instincts come forward and make us group rogether with the same people as us. There was never really a "Rainbow Nation" apart from the fact that the different groups live separately within one entity.
The land ussue is a huge factor of hate and fear in this country. A fear of a civil war, a fear of economic turmoil and hate for people who don't have control over what happend in the past.
Julius Malema, ruler of the 3rd largest political party in the country, is a staunch Black Supremacist who hates the Asians, Coloureds and Whites. He frequently promotes the idea of killing White people and taking our land and redistributing it among the Black people. To explain it in much better detail, here is a documentary: ruclips.net/video/qhMqc7exTus/видео.html
Now all these things, from crime, to government corruption, to hate surrounding who's land is it anyeays, to economic reasons and to inherent human nature to be with your own kind, Orania was an answer to many of these problems.The things that kept people from ever really moving there and perhaps settle other Afrikaner towns (till recently) was the lack of resources for a sugnificant industry for an economy, an infrastructure to support the people and the businesses, a lack of high paying jobs and most importantly, a reason to leave South Africa's ideals behind and semigrate, and those reasons have been stacking up higher and higher yearly. An economy was fested in Orania, the infrastructure is being built and needs meeted and the idea of a Volkstaat seems more and more promising each day that passes.
Orania has great allianses/diplomatic ties to other places with similar outlooks as them, such as a Xhosa town in the Eastern Cape (Speaking of which, there are hundreds of Black only towns still in the original Bantustans that were made for each Bantu ethnic group), Hopetown (a community of Coloured (not mixed) people), South-Tyrol (a German population in Italy) and Vlaandere.
Thank you very much for this comment! First of all, I'm pleased that you thought the video was fair - I really wasn't sure how it would come across to anyone in Orania or the larger Afrikaner community. But also I really appreciated the explanation you gave, and hearing that you have decided to move to Orania! I think as someone outside of South Africa it is easy to look at the larger picture and list all of the problems, and say this or that should be done, or not be done, but for individuals living in South Africa it is not possible to come to such neat conclusions. I can totally understand why an Afrikaner who has grown up since majority rule would feel unfairly treated today. It must feel like you are being penalized for the actions of previous generations. And yet, while I don't condone the calls by the EFF to get rid of Orania, I do understand how that message could be effective for EFF politicians in some communities. Thank you for the names of those other communities. I came across Eureka, but it was unclear to me how legitimate an effort this was. I will also look into the others now. I really wish you the best of luck as you "semigrate" (this is a new word for me - thank you) and I hope you and your brother have a happy, safe, and peaceful new life!
@@FredoRockwell Thank you for responding, I didn't notice till I came back to your channel now😅 I suppose it is easier as an outsider to look at the full picture, but being immersed in the actual picture is so different, like watching an old video of someone you know, but you won't know the touch or the smells, only a clear view of that moment at hand, and that's what makes things different for us.
I was not born during Apartheid, nor was my brother. The younger generation post-Apartheid have seen how we have become sidelined, our history torn down and our people ridiculed and even murdered. The EFF hasn't helped with that at all, and of course, like all political parties they have slogans that make the people vote for them. They've just targeted things in an approach that is reprehensible, to say the least. And it is working, as year-on-year their membership grows. Their playing a tune that the masses want to hear. Though I think if they come to power it won't have been all talk and no bite...
As for Eureka, I've done a bit more research myself. It is a movement (like Orania is) to build more towns and Eureka was the first town and Groendorp is its second town. Their ideals are a bit different than that of Orania, like the Afrikaner saying goes, "If two Afrikaners were stranded on an island, within the day there will be two political ideologies and three different church denominations"😂 They have sparked a lot of interest throughout the Afrikaner community. I think at last count they had over 9000 members (half of Orania's membership) who help build the infrastructure in both towns via a raffle system. Eureka sells the raffles for R100 each and they have one large winner and several small winners and so they get to win half of the money that had been assembled and the rest the Eureka Movement keep. And they've only recently won the rights to build their Afrikaner towns in the high-court, which is why it didn't look as if it was an actual effort. It may be a good idea to search them up on Facebook, where it's a direct pathway to them, bypassing the media representation of them entirely.
Thank you for the well wishes, I appreciate it a lot!😊
You can make your Quebec Canada in Europe not here in South Africa or Africa as a whole, you guys are wasting time and resources, this Orania thing is not going anywhere
@@afrorise Wait, you're telling people of distant European descent to go back to Europe?!
@@FredoRockwell not to go back if they don't want but to acknowledge their European background , don't deny your roots just because you want to be Africans so desperately just because you was born in Africa
As a South African citizen part of the majority, I can see the efficiency of the ora in terms mitigating socio-economic issues related to crime. However, it does raise questions on Orania's supply chain. How do they comply with regulations posed in primary, secondary and tertiary sectors of the economy? If the community exercises self-efficiency in those sectors as well, are the levels of production sufficient enough to constitute a sustainable local economy? How will they maintain equilibrium between population growth and the availability of resources when they are independent on South Africa's "plummeting economy"?
I feel that Orania's values and governance supplemented by population growth will initiate political unrest in the country in the years to come.
Orania is a tiny town of around 3,000 people with a self-sustaining local economy.
In the large town where I live, our bumper harvests are supplied to an agricultural co-op where it is then processed in the city and down the line the local branch of a national supermarket sells those processed products to us for significantly more than we supplied the same product at and again extracts that profit from this community - this is madness where we create a raw product generating massive wealth in the processing chain, all of which ends up in the pockets of those in the well-off cities with only a limited benefit to a relatively poor local community.
In Orania what is produced locally is largely processed and consumed locally with a modest harvest of pecan nuts being the major product sold outside of Orania. There simply are no large companies with multiple shareholders that are affected by BEEE regulations in Orania. Instead a number of small businesses trading with each other largely curtails the erosion of wealth from their community while new entrants coming to live in Orania introduces further wealth into that community which allows the community to grow and expand.
It isn't really a currency anyway, and is more like coupons, vouchers.
😂😂
Freedom of association. It's in our constitution. We are like Jews without a homeland. That's why there is Orania.
Making their own currency is a stroke of brilliance
I seems fairly well thought out to me, and I think they've been wise to sidestep the cryptocurrency hype. But there are local currencies all around the world so I wouldn't call it brilliance. What's remarkable about the Ora is its longevity. Most local currencies struggle to remain relevant for more than a few years.
As a dutchman I can tell you right now all dutch cultures are stubborn, these people will not give up and this town will grow to be the biggest in the district by 2060 of we calculate with exponential growth.
Current population - 2800
Growth rate 10 %
Wow, I guess that might alter local politics a bit. But actually, I don't think many Oranians vote in local elections, so maybe it won't have a big impact on things as long as Orania is left to its own affairs.
@@FredoRockwell honesty local politics really dont matter for orania, like you mentioned earlier it is a private business of a town. They own many acres of land and can decide what to do with it. They already are one of the biggest nut farmers in the province and are now investing in solar energy (already a profitable business in the district capital of De Aar).
The future looks bright for the little town and many Afrikaners and even some Dutch people are moving to Orania. In contrast to the rest of South Africa they have a very planned economy and construction projects. The town is also significantly more safe than other towns in the area which gives it an edge in pretty much everything.
Its amazing to look at the numbers and see just how efficient the economy of the town is despite its small population.
Keep on dreaming , we are watching
Thanks for watching!
Across the world many places have local currencies that are merely a rebranding of the national currency with the permission of the central bank. The ORA in Orania is in not in any way an independent currency but for every Ora in circulation a Rand is taken out of circulation and deposited at the Reserve Bank.
They left and did their own thing
Any group of people have the right to self determination and the right to freedom of association. If Afrikaners want to keep themselves to themselves that’s fine. They can still trade and have relations with foreigners. South Africa is going down the drain. These guys have the right idea.
I'm a big supporter of the freedom of association, as I guess you'll know if you watched the video, so an Afrikaner-only community on private property should be allowed to exist (and only if it exists without government support).
I'm not a believer in a general right to self-determination (setting up a new country, I mean). If a group of people are being systematically oppressed by their government over time, I think there's an argument to be made, but only in pretty extreme circumstances.
@@FredoRockwell I think the current state of South Africa is a good enough reason to segregate voluntarily. Personally speaking. But that goes for all groups not just Afrikaners.
You pronounce most Afrikaans words not too badly, apart from "klein reus". The "ei" in Afrikaans sounds like the "ai" in English "main". The "eu" in Afrikaans like the "ieu" in "monsieur". Thank you for the interesting video.
Thanks for the reassurance on my pronunciation. I'll be sure to get it right next time!
Interesting stuff Fredo
Thanks! That's always the goal!
You made your position quite clear buddy😂 what you don’t realize is that a diverse range of unique cultures only exist due to separation and preservation. Diversity kills a unique culture no matter if it was white or any other race
Hey, buddy! 🤗 I realize how distinct cultures evolve. I just value individual human rights more than the rights of conservatives based on subjective, abstractions. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell Access to a foreign community/land is not a human right
@@FredoRockwellsurely individual rights are just as subjective as community rights?
@@noodlyappendage6729 It's not a matter of subjectivity. I just don't think communities"should have rights over individuals. A community is an abstract concept, whereas a person is flesh and blook. When such rules are put into place, someone has to be appointed (or elected, but come to power somehow) to speak for the community. This subjective viewpoint of what the community needs is used to exert power over individuals. This is how you get laws that women must or mustn't wear certain items of clothing, men must have long or short hair, children must be taught certain books, and that sort of thing.
@@FredoRockwell Thank you for making the video by the way. It's one of the best I've seen on RUclips. For me the right of the community is also important. At the end of the day all a community is is essentially a tribe. Tribes are extremely important for people. They are a fundamental human need. A community for a human is as important as a colony for an ant, a pack for a canine, or a pride for a lion. It is not something that I would say is subjective.
Free orania from moroco
Let's free Western Sahara from Morocco first. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell saraha maroco asta 2223
Can you do a video on some other local currencies? I've never heard of this concept before.
Yes, sure! They're reasonably common in America and Europe, but they often only last for a few years at a time. The pandemic killed off the Bristol Pound here in the UK, which is the one nearest to me. 😮 Anyway, thank you for the suggestion! I will see what I can do!
@@FredoRockwell I've also heard of a UBI scheme in South Korea that works like that: ruclips.net/video/EbWv_1NbWyw/видео.html.
Actually, UBI and local currencies work in different ways. Normally, a local currency is just a one-for-one swap of whatever the main currency is in use. So in Bristol, there were Bristol Pounds which you could buy for one pound each, and spend in local shops. That's how the Ora works too. Some schemes use a different valuation system, like Ithaca Hours in Ithaca, New York, are meant to be worth an hour of work each. That ends up being more of a bartering system. But UBI, is the normal currency just being given to people to spend, with a goal of reducing poverty and individual financial stress. I guess they are both ways of using money to effect social change, but otherwise very different. But I'm now thinking a UBI video would be good...
They're both interesting concepts tried in different ways. Really interesting to see which versions do better than others. I'd never heard of the Bristol pound before, but when it's "free money" there might be more of an incentive to use it.
Orania is 'n vooruitstrewende land. Hoekom nie by hulle leer nie? Die probleem hier is dat U nie wil hê dat ander moet slaag nie.
Wat kan ek doen om na Orania te immigreer?
bruh stop mentioning how tolerant you are every 5 minutes
Thanks for the constructive criticism. I'm willing to tolerate that!
Orania is an island of peace in SA's chaos. I'm glad Orania is doing well
Its very interesting :)
It was an interesting video to make!
@@FredoRockwell Yeah👍🏻
I'm coloured.... I want to live there.... Mag Ek?
I'd be extremely interested to know if you do move to Orania. Please get in touch if it happens!
@@FredoRockwell lol I'd probably not be allowed in via the vetting process. I mean I do speak Afrikaans.... And I may hay some Dutch heritage from the settler days.... But who knows lol.
@@FredoRockwell if I do I'd send you an update😁
Why would you want to dedicate your life to Afrikaner culture? Why not build a cultural village with the people you want to associate with? Their main vetting criteria is Christian, Afrikaans speaking and Afrikaner.
Orania trotse dorpie om in the bly.
So the information of them wanting to be a Republic and splitting from South Africa is true or not?
That's not true as far as I know.
6:40 What is Santa Claus doing in the court house?
Voluntary segregation already happens naturally around the world.
SMWX "Orania’s dark history: the story of South Africa’s whites-only town" video on RUclips is none-bias and speaks the truth about the architects of Oriana are the same architects of Apartheid. SMWX video is Worth watching
Sounds biased.
Do people in iranian accept the Rand.
From what I understand yes, the Rand is still commonly used and it's accepted in all shops.
But what about security? They are totally dependent on protection from the SA police - hardly brothers in arms.
Bravo bou voort Orania bou voort🎉
Discussing the validity of Orania , without putting the employment- discrimination ,plundering, torturing and murdering the Africaners endure into the equation seems to lead to an irrelevant conclusion, regardless of who is doing the enquireing.No one I have heard of ,seems concerned that english decendants are equaly barred from the community.This would lead me to conclude that jelousy is a motive for desention.I would venture that the greatest part of the prosperity is due to being resposable,and especialy being independant from the enslaving grip of world economy.
Thanks for watching! I'm going to disagree with your first point, but not in a way you expect. I think anyone and everyone should have the right of association - the right to associate with whoever they want - as long as it is done peacefully. So I think Orania is a valid project (as you put it) merely because it is a group of people who want to live together. Whether or not they are discriminated against elsewhere doesn't need to be relevant to this. By positioning Afrikaners as victims, I think it makes it seem like you have to be a victim to have the right to associate as you want, and I don't think that's true.
Orania KNOWS.
Orania knows what?
@@FredoRockwell I literally forgot. . . 😅
They left and did their own thing eish bantswempu
Love the sake kamer a room where you have sake
Orania is a country in a country?
I don't think you can call Orania a "country." It's more like a privately owned community with some of its own rules.
Ok i understand "its a very nice place so living in peace" God bless tham
That's my attitude. I don't think dividing up the world into racial or cultural groups is a good idea, but if people want to peacefully form their own communities and live their lives how they choose, that's fine with me.
The flower is a Gazania not a daizy
Thank you and thanks for watching! When I look Gazania up online I get it listed under the common name "African Daisy." I suspect this might be a name used in the UK, which is why I'm seeing it. Thanks for the clarification!
How do oranians pay taxes ?
Good question! One thing I do know that I didn't mention: Orania receives no local government services from Northern Cape Province. So maybe they don't pay any? Our maybe they do but they have to keep track of their Ora transactions?
@@FredoRockwell Oranians do pay taxes unfortunately, even if they receive nothing in return from the South African government and the larger muniscipality that they form part of. I think it's a wealth tax that they pay, which starts at 8% for the poorer people and can go up to 28% for the rich. Then they also pay for amenities like water, garbage collection etc. to Orania's town council and because Orania is run as a corporation due to everything being private property for the residents, all the residents are shareholders and pay a certain amount to be part if that, but it's also a great way to make money depending on how much you invest into the town.
Not at all surprised to hear that Oranians pay taxes, and for services they then don't receive. On its face it sounds unfair, but I can't imagine any government would let any community live that separately!
This as an awesome video. Also one of the most objective descriptions of Orania. All the ones I've found are all either blatantly pro-Afrikaans or like that France24 video... They are there own ethnicity and people, what is bad about them grouping together? Isnt that what countries are? I think the sole reason they are seen as a vestige of apartheid or a bunch of white supremecists is solely based on the millstone that is dragging down on every Afrikaner. Their ethnicity introduced and promoted apartheid. And judging and ostracising an entire ethnicity based solely on one political decision from almost 70 years ago now seems lopsided at best and racist at worst. Thank you for such an awesome video. I subbed
Glad you liked the video! I've had more than a few negative comments from people who were outraged I had tried to be balanced 😂 (none of whom were from South Africa, as far as I know). Thanks for the sub!
There's nothing bad about it. The problem is that there are people who are revenge and frustrated with the fate of the country and need to elect villains for their political speeches. Afrikaners are people who want to live their lives and raise their families. Remember what happened to Rhodesia.
Haba tlohe mona bare tlisetsa moea oa liqabang..kea makala naa re oetseng keng athe meleko ke ena mona e ithehileng thajana e nahaha hore ea iphelela naheng ea habo Rona..khutlelang moo le tsoang teng le seke lare leka joalo kaha le ile la leka bo Ntata Rona Moholo ha joale ke rona ba teng Tlohang mona
Thanks for watching! I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "go back to where you came from," but if you are directing this at the descendants of European settlers, who were born in South Africa of course, saying "go back to where you came from" would be considered a racist thing to say where I came from. In 2019, US President Donald Trump tweeted about a group of four minority US congresswomen (three of whom were born in the US) saying, “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.” Trump's comment was condemned as racist by much of the US media.
I don't support racial segregation, but I do support the right of people to peacefully associate with whoever they want to on whatever grounds they choose. This shouldn't be seen as a threat by anyone - again, as long as this is done peacefully. And it's certainly not right to tell people who choose to live this way to "go back where they came from."
@@FredoRockwell kere lona le khutlele habo lona le bontsa le tlisa karohano e ngata hoo le seng le bile le hopola hore leka etsa sebaka sa lona Naheng eo le tsebang hantle hore ho tloha ho baholo ba lona le bajaki mona...Tsamaeang le tlohe mona lere baketse pherekano..Ho lekane hae sale khale nakong eo le neng le hopola hore tsohle li matsohong a lona.
@@lehlohonolosetlai8236 The Google translate version of your comment didn't make sense, sorry. But if you are telling me to go home, are you saying I need to leave the UK and go back to the US? Why is that relevant to this video?
@@FredoRockwell Letla ka hore Khotso ho Rona batho ba phelang mona Africa ka kakaretso hape ke lona le tlisitseng libetsa tse kotsi tsena 'moho le polotiki e tsamaeang le lehloeo le tibileng..ke tihisitse ha kere le khutlele Naheng ea habo lona lere baketse bofutsana le bofuma le tlokotsi e fitisisang Africa mona..le ikhapela maruo a lihloliloeng tsa Naha tsa Rona ka boqitolo..hale qeta lere bolella ka khotso eo le senang Eona..Sheba bana ba heno ba phelang mona Orania bare Sebaka kesa bona haba hloke merabe ea batho ba batso moo.. haba tlile le sona sebaka seo ho tloha koaa moo ba tsoang teng haese hona hotla iketsa Melingoana ea Rona moo Afrika e tlase...Tlohang mona moho le uena le tlisitse pherekano sechabeng sa Rantso kaho re tlela ka Melingoana ea linaheng tsa lona...Khutlelang habo lona le joale..
@@lehlohonolosetlai8236 I'm an American. I live in the UK. I've been to Africa many times, but only on short visits and I've not yet had the chance to visit South Africa. I hope to some day. I understand the anger that you feel, but telling people of any heritage to leave the country of their birth and to "go back home" is racist. It is a statement which relies on the idea that white people have to live separately from people of other colours. This was, of course, the idea behind apartheid, which did so much damage to South African society.
Lets not overlook that British and Dutch founded South Africa, a no mans land region of the African Continent. Naive people think Black own or are Africa, not knowing Black races are only from the Central part of Africa. South Africa had no people in it, other than the San People that were nomadic, herding livestock through out Africa, and had a home base in Angolia come Namiba. Now they are static in South Africa due to financial benefit. The Zulu also not native to SA, and home lands at South Africa's eastern border. Mandela's people a sub tribe of Zulu. Most of the Blacks in SA are from illegal invasion and other encouraged by factories, owned by Jews. Also Farmers started relying on Black labour. Over time SA imported Indians and other races, and slowly their nation was hijacked.
Actually, these are exactly the sort of facts that must be overlooked in a fair and just society. Where someone's ancestors are from, and especially what the religion/ethnicity their ancestors' employers were, is only relevant for creating a society with second and third class citizens - or worse
@@FredoRockwell Whilst others like Israel have that ideology of race and religion, you'll be their weak controlled disposable no-identity slave.
@@FredoRockwell God the universe created species/races. You're trying to remove that.
@JimmyCall I'd liked to make trace irrelevant to the state. If private citizens want to form an exclusive group based on cultural differences, I think it should be allowed. If someone wants to use the state to enforce rigid racial boundaries in society I think this should be opposed. Basically, people should be allowed to pursue a lifestyle of their choice peacefully and non-coercively, not through state force.
Ironically they have a picture on their currency that is similar to Hector Pietersen being carried by Mbuyisa Makhubo during 1976 uprise in Soweto 😎
lol they can just publish it into cryptocurrency and let Elon Musk or Jordan Peterson advocate them.
Wonderful idea.
sadly more race hate and not focusing on progress Makenzie
SA should order Orania to remove the busts of leaders with blood on their hands who caused untold racial suffering + remove that flag that has no place in SA which has a flag already. Use only SA money because that's the only currency that should be used. If they want to use vouchers in their area fine let them people can buy vouchers but only at a government-run bank in Orania, because of the low risk of crime this should be priced a bit more too.
lol
lol
I bet you don't even know her story do you
@@niuwer7894 It is a satanic one that doesn't belong in Africa
Nelson Mandela had blood on his hands, so his statues should also be removed. No?
They're settlers mad that they are no longer the rulers of the land they invaded.
Thanks for watching! I think "invaded" is a bit strong, though! Arguably their ancestors "invaded," but even then the Boers (as I understand it) tended to try and settle on unoccupied land at different points during their history. But, to be fair, I think Orania is certainly a response to the changes in South African society and political power - that is pretty clear.
@@FredoRockwellTheir ancestors settled different lands (partly) to continue their slavery. Where did they get these slaves? But I think it's very clear it was an invasion by the fact that they fought wars with the Zulu kingdom to occupy land for their own use. (ruclips.net/video/L8L62JWy8FQ/видео.html en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaners I know this isn't any good evidence, but I think its better than nothing to prove the base facts?)
@@robbedeboer2728 "Invaded" is a funny word. Because no one is going to accuse the Zulus of it.
@@user-mc5wc5jm4f did the Zulus systematically oppress those who didn't share their skin colour? Did they create systemic racism for the past 400 years?
@@robbedeboer2728 The Bantu Expansion resulted in the systemic oppression (genocide and slavery) of the Khoi and San people.
It's disingenuous to ignore it because Bantu agression towards non-Zulus in this context shared a pigment.
We need this in America
Cultural (and racial) segregation??! Why would we need that?
@@FredoRockwell Towns to preserve "culture" 😉