Start-to-Finish Radiant Floor System (by DIYers) 🔥
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- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2023
- A start to finish recap of how we installed our radiant floor heating system in our 36x40 slab. This will work in parallel with our ductless mini split system to keep our garage space comfortable year-round. Check out our Radiant Floor Heating playlist for all the details leading up to this! Comment if you have any questions and stay tuned for system start up!
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#construction #building #plumbing
Interested in seeing the exact cost details and where we bought everything for our radiant heat floor system? We have the spreadsheet available on our website: www.masondixonacres.com/products/radiant-flooring-cost-spreadsheet
Electrician here with an electrical contractor license, what you guys accomplished is amazing
Much appreciated!
As a master electrician I think you did nice work. Better than most DIY
Much appreciated! I hope that carries through to electrical rough in 😄
You guys did an awesome job.
Coal brewed coffee would be the perfect name
love it
Thanks for making it so fun to watch.
Awesome craftsmanship!
I just starting to build a house and quickly finding out I doing it ll my self but yall have been such a welcomed encouragement so a thousand times thank you both.😊
You can do it! Thanks for following!
I like the attention to detail and making everything look neat and orderly. All the grunts paid off.
PS: Camp fire coffee and cooking was good practice for our future visits. Glad you’re working the process for future events.
Thanks Mark!! Eventually we'll have a nice landscaped fire circle set up 😁
Oh , sorry, it is very interesting and informative. Thank you
I am a retired Ironworker and had done the rebar structure for these floors since they first came onto the construction sites. My ankles are still sore from working around these floors. You guys never seem to be surprised by your determination of doing things yourself, like me I always hated paying someone to do what I can regardless if I did it before.
Rebar is tough work! We definitely like to do things ourselves when possible 💪
Just found your channel from a short! Having just finished a smaller scale house reno, I've found a new love for doing things myself instead of paying someone else to do it. I'll be watching more!
Awesome, we have the same thought. While it is slower, we learn so much and the satisfaction is fantastic.
great work, and yes, very professional looking! Just be careful if you plan on running the outdoor outlet on the same circuit as your critical circuits for your heating system. That way, you don't have something outside like a storm or hosing down your siding, the whole cirucuit doesn't trip due to water intrusion.
40min video!? Well worth the time. I probably won't incorporate my radiant floors until after we get in the house. But this will definitely be a reference! Good job.
Thanks! Yeah this one was quite a marathon.. many months of footage combined 😅
I knew you were gonna say ow! With that little piece of wood. Great job btw
lol you called it 😆 thank you!
Plumbing work looks good. Don't worry about the Sharkbite coupling, they are code and will be fine for what you are using it for. Nice work!
I appreciate it!!
After saying you watched y.t. videos on soldering, you forgot to say, you also stayed at Holiday Express.
Nice work i did notice one loop too close to the toilet make sure you use a rubber gasket on the toilet opposed to wax.
Thanks!
Much appreciated!!
That manifold looks exactly like my new Uponor.
I designed and built my house with radiant floors and have been through all of this! Good work! In my setup, the floor sensor doesn't really help. What I did was bore out a hole in a bottom plate of a wall, stick the sensor in there and jam it full of silicone. Even after installing this sensor at both of my thermostats I don't need to use it. The timer function on the thermostat is all you need. Your setup may be different becase of the depth of slab, amount of insulation, etc.. You will develop an understanding of your system only after living with it!!
Yeah I'm already seeing the floor temperature doesn't mean a whole lot, the thermostat default is to keep the air temp at a set point, and only pays attention to floor temp to keep it between min and max limits (45 and 80 I believe). So far so good!
@@MasonDixonAcres My slab might be thicker than most, so the time delay between when the system turns on and when any heat is felt in the room is over three hours. I can't let the system run until the thermostat kicks off because the slab would be overloaded with heat. So its a bit of a guessing game. I usually watch the weather and adjust the water temperature and/or the lenth of time that my system runs in the morning, but only really need to change that a few times over the winter.
Thanks for the videos, helps answer some questions I have. I’m designing a garage apartment, I was wondering about the exhaust that close to a operating window. Keep it up
There’s a full table of clearances in the manual of whatever tankless you buy, and I think those are derived from National fuel gas code. I checked our manual again and it’s 1ft in the US and 3ft in Canada for a direct vent next to an operable a window
This is the first of your videos I've watched, but I've really enjoyed it so I'll go back and start watching the rest. One thing that instantly struck me though, and I'm surprised no-one else has commented on it, is that I don't think it's ideal to have your electrical outlet directly underneath the boiler; any leaks would potentially be straight into that outlet.
Thanks! I think someone else did comment on that a while back, I agree that was definitely not best practice in hindsight 😂 however with it being GFI and the low liklihood of a tankless springing a leak with yearly maintenance, it should be okay
After all your work, without question you've earned those grunts lol.
😂
Armored cable would have been nice for all the exposed wiring. Nice work!
you need to relocate tall outleta, switch boxes and junction boxes out from under and away from any water connections that could leak and out from under all water and sewer drains pipes
Hey Alex. I'm also not a tradesman, but I do have one suggestion for you - on your electrical box you put in, it looks like you wound the ground wire around the ground screw counter-clockwise. I've always seen it suggested, and it makes sense to me, to run that wire around the screw clockwise so there is less chance of the loop trying to unwind as you tighten down the screw. I wouldn't bother going back and changing this one as it appeared secure, but as you wire in receptacles and future boxes, something to look out for. Gotta be exciting to make this progress!
Oh that's interesting! I just took a needle nose pliers and formed a tiny circle that held the screw captive and then tightened it in the box. Never thought about which way the circle was wound. Funny enough I do actually need to go change that screw out, because they are supposed to be green by code but I only found a silver one laying around. Or just go in there with a green sharpie 😁 Most of our boxes will be nonmetallic, actually about to go pickup all the electrical rough in supplies tomorrow. It's definitely nice to be getting to mechanicals, lots of fun ahead
@@MasonDixonAcres Did you get cited by an inspector on the green screw? I've seen people that believe it has to be green in these boxes, and also plenty that say it does not. I have not been able to find a code reference that requires a green screw outside of the panel bonding jumper in a panel (250.28c), just that it must be threaded, not a self-tapper (250.8), and that it can't be used for anything else (250.148)
Do you have a video that shows how water flows and each component of the system works? Thanks
Nice work. When you use metal clamps to secure plastic pipe, cut a strip of rubber from an old bicycle inner tube or roofing membrane. Put it under the clamp so that the plastic is isolated from the metal.
Good tip! I wrapped the ones securing our gas manifold in electrical tape but didn’t bother for the rest. You’re thinking just as a chafe guard?
@@MasonDixonAcres I believe that is the rationale behind the code. Your condensate pipe is not under water pressure. So it will never chafe. So maybe the inspector won't care.
Very nice job, I'm really not looking forward to building my in floor system, I will have 13 runs and a combi boiler!
It's actually pretty fun once you get into the swing of it! I would definitely do it again for a future shop.
Great work! It's always a fun time learning new skills. I've seen some people that use closed loop glycol vs open loop water. What were the deciding factors for y'all choosing open over closed?
Thank you, agreed! Biggest one was being able to use the same heating appliance for both floor and domestic water. Also the open system makes sure the water never gets stagnant in the floor during summer. It's a very simple system and I like that there isn't even a control needed for the boiler.
@@MasonDixonAcres That makes sense! I didn't realize you were using the same heating appliance for both. Looked great!
Just wondering how hard your water is and if the scale inhibitor is doing its job? also are you on a well?
Do you have a monthly cost for the in floor radiant/temp setting?? I am also on propane and will be building a 40x60 ft pole barn w/ in floor radiant. I am in NY and experience 10-45 degrees in the winter from November- April.
@Mason Dixon Acres - Would you mind sharing the size of the sweep 90s that were used to turn the pex vertical? I watched a number of your radiant floor videos. Very helpful - thanks!
1.5”. Glad it helped
Question, for the electrical... conduit is not required? I thought romex had to be either behind sheet rock (fire barrier) or in a PVC conduit or EMT metal conduit. Or is this a barn non living area?
The NEC is vague on this so it’s left to the local AHJ and ours was fine with it. The NEC states something like no surface mounted nm-b where exposed to hazard. Conduit and thhn or MC cable would also work. This is in a utility room attached to the garage and separated from the living space in the same manner as the garage.
Quick FYI, the adhesive on duct tape can damage / weaken the pex tubing. Make sure you do that on the stuff that is excess.
oh never heard of that! Can you explain why?
Great video. But shouldn’t your vent pipe slope toward the outside so any condensation will run out and not into the heater?
Nope, otherwise it will drip icicles in the winter. When it goes back into the heater, it ends up in the condensate drain where it belongs
I worked at the new rockwool plant in WV until recently! There's a decent chance my crew made that insulation for you lol
Awesome!! You may have had a hand in our house 😉
Consider me honored!
In my area, they would require that the electrical be run in conduit if exposed to the room.
I'll learn for sure when the inspector comes for plumbing (impossible to get ahold of him otherwise), worst case I'll swap it for MC cable. He's pretty flexible though so I'd be surprised if that's the case
13:04 I was going to say they sell a fireproof fabric for this purpose, but I am guessing beyond this piping you are not using too much copper in your home, though I might be using pex rather than that CPVC supply pipe, seen some horror stories with that pipe. I think that manifold was a good investment and price too prob $500 in fittings and pipe alone.
Yeah i was too cheap to buy the little fireproof blanket 😂 for this little bit of pipe leading to the manifold i was trying to avoid the flow restriction from traditional PEX-b fittings and I didn’t really want to hassle with expansion PEX since i don’t have the tool and fittings are a pain to find. If the cpvc ever gives me a problem I’ll just replace with copper since it’s less than 10’ total. I’ve only ever seen problems with cpvc when it freezes, so fingers crossed that never happens 🤞🏼
You must surely research all night and work all day. I bet you’re looking forward to sleep!
I was a GC for many years, and your work is better crafted than 99% of the jobs I’ve seen. My only point would be that not all municipalities will let you surface mount nmc cable. I’d recommend a raceway or pre-wire before you installed your plywood. …but you’re doing a super job!
Thanks so much! I cleared the surface mounted nm-b with our inspector ahead of time, NEC allows it but is vague
Great Job! The only thing I would have changed is the cpvc. It’s a shame to see all of that pretty copper attached to white plastic
Thought about it but it had to transition at some point due to the cpvc ball valve coming off the well tank valve. I also didn't see much extra value in copper for the amount of extra labor and material cost
@@MasonDixonAcres I would have done the same but it still would have hurt me every time I looked at it. 😀
Not sure if anyone pointed this out yet but, it needs to be in conduit using thhn wire not romex. Romex can be exposed but it has to be 6’6” off the ground. I own an electrical company, over all it looks great.
Thank you! The NEC is vague on this so it’s left to the local AHJ and ours was fine with it. The NEC states something like no surface mounted nm-b where exposed to hazard. Conduit and thhn or MC cable would also work
So how do you control each room in the house? Where are the thermostats for those or is it one temp throughout?
This is only for the slab, there is just the one air/floor thermostat shown
Curious, I noticed the lack of an expansion tank. Do you not require one where you live? We're building a home with a heated slab as well
With an open system you don’t need one - the well pressure tank serves as the expansion tank
Hey, so is your radiant system circulating potable water? I couldn’t see for sure, but looked like it. It looks like maybe the Takagi boilers are designed for potable water? If not, it will rust out from dissolved oxygen in the water. If you have a standard cast iron pump, that will also rust.
All the other systems I’ve seen (and my system) are closed loop once filled, so the oxygen comes out of solution once it heats and that inhibits corrosion in all the ferric parts.
Yes, this is an open system. More info on Radiant Floor Company's site
So is the radiant heating hooked up to the boiler directly, and not like an indirect or a separate set of connections on the tankless unit? Is it the same connection for the boiler and the hot water because if it’s set up that way, that’s not right
You can see all the details here: www.radiantcompany.com/system/opensystem/
Did you put a vapor barrier on top of your insulation before putting the final plywood?
Nope. Not a good idea for our climate.
Dutch oven; usually 2:1 coals top vs bottom. Get welding gloves. Those cotton gloves are a hazard near flame.
Good tip, I'll put those on the list for the next Harbor Freight trip 😁
Can you reference the instagram that shows how to make the unistrut pipe clamp holder?
it was a static post on @mechanicalhub quite a while back. Not a how-to, just an photo that I copied the technique
Could the power outlet under the water heater cause a problem if there is a leak?
Location could have definitely been better on that, but it is a GFCI recep at the least. May relocate in the future, however I would imagine these tankless boilers aren't prone to catastrophic leakage like normal tanked heaters
Can you say specifically what insulation you used in the walls and where to buy it?
ROCKWOOL ComfortBatt R23! Should be available at most HD/Lowes or any insulation supplier
Great video! I work in the plumbing/ HVAC supply industry and, like you, I love saving money by doing all of this kind of stuff DYI. Are you guys in PA? (I noticed the PSU mitt your wife had on).
Right on! Yep we both went to PSU!
@@MasonDixonAcres me too! My wife and I just brought a piece of lakefront property on Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia. I plan on doing a lot of my own work when we build. What portions of your build did you outsource/ vs doing on your own?
We will probably do a whole blog post & video on this question eventually, but basically outsourced the things which were highly impractical if not impossible to do ourselves - laying block, slab pour, roof framing, metal roof install, dropping the well pump, drywall, seamless gutters. Two items (excavation, soffit/fascia) we could have done, but had friends or bartered for others to do it instead. Everything else we are doing ourselves.
Did they let you install the exhaust beneath the window like that?
Watch out for carbon monoxide coming in the window.
3ft is all that's required to a window opening per the heater install instructions
@@MasonDixonAcres ok. Didn't realize it was just a height thing
next time, get yourself a heat gun, warm those joints up and the pex pipe usually slides right off the fittings with a small tug.
Good tip thank you!!
@@MasonDixonAcres anytime. I wish I had people helping me when I needed it. All the best in your new lives. Congratulations on your build. Bangup job! Be proud!
👍🤗
Not sure what electrical code year your area has adopted, but flush-mounted non-metallic cable is not allowed anywhere from floor height to 5' above floor height. Needs to be armored cable or individual wires running through EMT, or non-metallic cable is ok running through the studs like any other interior wall. Great work though. Your inspector may not be too picky. Given you were doing this back in January, you might already know this. Love the channel. This rule doesn't count for your ultra-low voltage cable (thermostat).
I did look into code on this before and it seemed fairly open to interpretation by the AHJ, the verbiage was something like protected from physical damage “where necessary” but didn’t have any height requirements. I’ll talk to him about it when we do our rough plumbing inspection before I run anything else. Thanks for the input!!
@@MasonDixonAcres You are correct in that the code doesn't stipulate the height. If your code official approves any exposed NM cable below 5', immediately go out and buy a lottery ticket. You are having a lucky day :)
I had the same question.... it's odd to see exposed romex that is not behind sheetrock or if exposed not in PVC and/or EMT conduit. Even in the attic, the inpsecter wanted the romex either covered or in conduit ~7ft around the hatch. And the attic was simply a service area for the furnace.. was not a living space. That maybe extreme but in a common areas I would expect wires to have some covering (drywall or conduit or plywood). Drywall is a fire barrier too.
I've never seen a tradesman do as neet clean looking installed as you did. Unless they were working on their own house. 😅
Haha thank you!
I was your 100th thumbs up woohoo!!
-Rhodes
water ?? not glycol ?
Am I the only one who thinks "the ham" was a turkey? :)
How many square foot is your building?
1340 slab area
Hope your putting up vapor barrier behind all your plywood. Well actually everywhere
OMG , no plastic behind the wood bords??? moister WILL go behind it.
Wish i could find a cute wife like yours that wants to homestead haha.
He called it unistrut. Somebody cooked here…
I know you are saving a lot of money by installing it yourself. What about warranty and building codes for the insurance? How do you get away from this?
You shouldn't mix the domestic with hydronic water. A lot of jurisdictions restrict this because it will be a health hazard. If you wanted to use the boiler to heat domestic you should use an indirect tank. "After longer periods of inactivity, such as after the summer, the heating water has been stagnant for weeks or months, allowing more time for legionella to multiply." When you turn the heat on in the fall your water will taste like crap.
In an open system, the water in the floor flows any time a hot water fixture is opened. It doesn't sit - the tankless draws cold water from the floor, which is replaced by cold water from the well. More info on the Radiant Floor Company's site
It will always choose the path of least resistance, it will not go through all of the floor loops and because there is mixing valves it will most likely only go straight to the boiler. This is why many places require a backflow prevention device between the hydronic and domestic water. Any place governed by codes will not allow this setup. The ucc states "M2101.3 Protection of Potable Water The potable water system shall be protected from backflow in accordance with the provisions listed in Section P2902.mrpexsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Radiant-Combination-System-Recommendations.pdf @@MasonDixonAcres
The code reference seems to assume a closed system, the term backflow in its traditional sense doesn't really apply to an open system. There's flow into the system, circulation, and flow out of the system when domestic hot water is used. Our inspector had no problem with this setup. The recommendation you linked is certainly good info, and it's true that the tankless isn't drawing 100% from the loops due to the mixing valve but it's not 0% either. We will test our water annually and if something changes it would be easy enough to convert to a closed loop, but as far as I can tell at this point, an open system is no more risky for bacterial growth than a guest shower that gets used twice a year.
Check state code... Usually water heaters have to be on their own circuits... But this is 10 months ago... so meh!
If it were electric, yes. Gas tankless uses very little current
@@MasonDixonAcresi had a 20amp circuit in the garage. I went from a pilot light 50 gallon tank to a Bosch tankless. When I sold the house the inspector made a big deal about me sharing the power from the rest of the garage and they made me put in a dedicated circuit. It was natural gas driven. But they still wanted to see a dedicated circuit. 🤷🏼♂️
Damn. Looks too hard