Radiant Heat Tubing in Slab (installing on rebar)
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- This step of slab preparation turned out to be easier than we thought! Having the rebar grid to help lay everything out made it SO much easier. Watch through for all the details!
Curious how much it cost us for radiant heat floor? We have all the product and cost details available on our website! ⬇
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00:00 Intro and DIY Pex Uncoiler
00:50 Manifold Sweeps
01:21 Radiant Tubing Layout in LoopCAD
02:21 Routing and Fastening Tubing
03:47 Pressurizing the Tubes
05:17 Avoiding Slab Control Joints
06:19 Why on rebar instead of staple down?
07:09 Epic Outro
If you’re new here, WELCOME 👋 We have an entire playlist on our house project thus far so you can easily binge watch those and catch up to where we are now!
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Interested in seeing the exact cost details and where we bought everything for our radiant heat floor system? We have the spreadsheet available on our website! ⬇
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ABOUT US: We are Alex and Elaina, a couple in our 20s who are currently living on the 3-acre farm in southern Pennsylvania where Alex grew up. We have a garden, backyard chickens, and build or fix anything that we need to. We still work corporate day jobs, but are working to eventually leave the 9-5 lifestyle in favor of a self-built, debt-free, homestead on 6 acres nearby.
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Interested in seeing the exact cost details and where we bought everything for our radiant heat floor system? We have the spreadsheet available on our website! ⬇
www.masondixonacres.com/products/radiant-flooring-cost-spreadsheet
I saw one for the framing that included foundation, siding, fasteners etc.
We're working on that! Should be available in a month or so! @@RySterling
This guy has no time-waster small talk ,he taught me so quick where to put it height-wise in the slab, the grade,red, and makes it all seem easy.
Above average delineation of essential issues to instal radiant floor system. Highlights of presentation: making a tubing holder to assist with unrolling of cumbersome roll of pex tubing, description of advantages of placing pex towards upper level of slab, guidance of making manifold to
pressurize tubing at 60# by using pex Ts, clever tip about lowering pex where control cuts in concrete are planned, and finally... excellent pacing and videoing of project. Touché and thank you. Johnny T.
Greetings Mason Dixon:... Would you respond to the plus and minus of running two ( 2 ) 1/2 inch circuits or one 7/8 inch circuits? Thanks. J T
Hey sorry just saw this looking at another comment! There's a lot of variables to consider, I'd probably go towards the 1/2" due to bend radius, availability, and cost. I believe Radiantec or Radiant Floor Company sells a 7/8" thinwall PEX that they promote has the best heat transfer, but it probably depends mostly on your application.
your research for this video is insane.
Great aerial shots. Also loved that you included the engineering "why" behind the center of the slab position for the tubing.
Thanks Brian! There's always a debate around where to put the tubes so I thought we should state our case 😂
LoopCAD for the win! Anyone doing a system on their own should be using it.
except it's a pita to learn
Let’s get some love for the pex-uncoiler
Amen brother ✊🏼
I'm at the planning stage for a similar radiant-heated slab-on-grade build and this information and video of the installation process is very helpful and valuable. I will be following the project closely. Thank you very much. You're making the daunting process seem doable. Cheers.
It's not as bad as you'd think! The 1x1 grid was hugely helpful, a 2x2 would also be good. Working on the hookup of ours now
Great video!
GREAT TIPS -- thanks!
Nice attention to detail. I like your technique of using scrap pex pieces to ensure the lines are recessed below the saw cuts.
It was sort of a last minute idea honestly! There wasn't enough radius between the 12"oc rebar to bend them all the way to the bottom. If/when we do this again in the future, I'll either do 24"oc spacing OR keep it at 12"oc but leave out a piece of rebar where each cut is. Didn't have that much foresight this time around!
Great video! Thank you for all the explanations for the choices you made. Question- with your tubing closer to the surface of the slab, what have you done to ensure that you don't penetrate the pex when you anchor down the bottom member of your interior walls?
Love you videos! Just starting this whole process my self and is really encouraging to see you two basically doing it Lol which is what we're doing as well. As my building progresses I'm making my way through your videos and find all very helpful! Thank you, cheers.
Thanks for the feedback! Glad you're enjoying the videos and finding them to be helpful. We try to make them a balance of informational/entertaining but that's a work in progress. The project has definitely been a lot of work but it's been a great learning experience and we wouldn't have it any other way! You can totally do it too! What stage are you in?
@@MasonDixonAcres we have our metal building ordered and delivery set, gravel pad ready for the start of utilities, have all main utilities set just need to run conduit stubbed out from building. We have 3 months til the delivery of the building parts themselves so a decent amount of work til then! Thanks for the reply and again love all your videos!
Thanks man I found it I appreciate it. Thank you for the video.
I am loving this project, I am following it to do my own construction. So, I am ready for the your slab pour so I can learn what to do and what not to do.
Thanks!! Stay tuned next week.
I learned a lot, thanks! Looks fantastic!
Glad it was helpful!
I really appreciate your helpful videos.. can you advise - did you make your own pressure test kit for your pre-pour PEX test or buy a kit? Do I pour concrete with air-filled (60lb) PEX or water filled? Thank you
I show how I link them together in the video, and air
I recently installed pex radiant heat tubes to go at the bottom of a concrete slab. It was much faster to buy a 1/2 inch tube stapler and attach the tubes directly to the foam, then place the rebar grid on top of this. Also, by putting the tubes at the bottom of the slab below the rebar grid, you avoid the chance of hitting the tubes with a nail or saw cut.
The tube stapler and staples added about $450 to the cost ($300 stapler + $150 staples), but was super convenient. With two men working it took 5.5 hours to install about 1300 feet of tube for a 1,680 sq. ft. house. There were also about 10 hours of prep and clean up time, such as designing the circuits with loopcad, designing and building the junction area for tubes, shopping for and buying supplies, pressure testing tubes before install, running around, etc.
Nice! We didn’t want the efficiency loss from putting the tubing at the bottom
I usually try to say something witty, but today I’m just going to tell you that I’m proud of both of you for working so diligently on your dreams.
Okay, I can’t help myself … pull your pants up Alex! 🙄🙄 I love that you don’t take yourself too seriously.
Hahah I'm not sure what's happened to all my belts lately.. thanks so much Nettie ❤
I have a project using gypcrete. I have used plastic 90s in slab before. The wrinkle here is this; the walls are up (3" bottom plate for gyp) and the manifolds are supposed to be in the wall.
How would you accomplish this? I'm thinking of just cutting out the bottom plate and using plastic 90s but also considering dropping through the bottom plate and then back up from underneath in the floor.
Thanks!
Thank you so much this is help me out did you get your system from someone or you designing it yourself i.e. your radiant floor system. I saw the same article and have saved it concerning placement of pipe and was also concerned about expansion joints/control joints I'll be building a new home starting in spring of 2023 in North Carolina right on the Tennessee state line. Came across your video because I was researching if PEX a would be adequate or acceptable for radiant floor heating touching concrete
Yes you definitely want PEX-a with oxygen barrier. PEX-a is also easier to work with than PEX-b. I used a free trial of LoopCAD to layout the system myself. Haven't gotten to the boiler/manifold/circ pump yet, but I'll either get a fully pre-built setup or try to DIY it for cost savings depending how much energy I have at that point..
Hey. Good video. What size are those conduit sweep sleeves? Thanks
1.5"
Thank you for this video! I am installing my radiant system in 2 weeks and this gives me a good idea on what to expect. I use 20mm tubing, so 16mm inside diameter. What is your inside diameter?
I believe the ID of 1/2" is just over 3/8"
@@MasonDixonAcres Thank you!
Could you describe your design process? Did you use "rules of thumb" provided by Radiantec or did you go with all the fancy inputs LoopCad is asking for.
Here in Europe you would not install underfloor heating tubes in the concrete slab !
You would pour the Slab THEN lay separate rebar mats for the heating pipes in the *screed* flooring.
This is for future proofing when the house is to be renovated,
the whole slab does not need to be destroyed just to change the heating pipes!
Haha yeah there's no changing out these pipes or demoing the slab. Ideally the PEX lasts forever.. we'll see 😉
Great video, would it be possible to post some links or at least a description of the fittings needed to do the pressure test? I'd like to use my car inflator if possible.
I made it a few years ago for another plumbing project but I'll put that on the to-do list 👍🏻
Great build series on what is going to be a great project to follow. Got a question though. This might have been asked and answered already but why are you using a radiant heating system in what is eventually going to be you garage floor? will this still heat the accommodation above?
Thanks a lot! Nope, radiant is just for the garage
@@MasonDixonAcres Hi. Thanks for the reply. I just binge watched the whole build series in 3 days.
Great approach. Straight to the point, very informative and with zero filler.
But I still don’t understand why you have the underfloor heating in what is going to be your garage? Especially when you have the 2 mini splits downstairs also and will have additional heating in the upstairs accommodation?
I’m considering a garage + suite build myself so this series is great inspiration. Good luck.
Holy crap that’s a lot of time to watch the whole series 😅 much appreciated! A few reasons for the radiant, we wanted to insulate the slab anyway to have a continuous conditioned space around the whole building, the addl cost for adding pex to the slab was negligible and can’t be done after the fact, it’s an easy way to heat the space, and mini splits were not in the original plan but decided on them later due to the cooling capabilities. Also much easier to do the splits with walls open rather than future retrofit for cooling. Probably will share heating load between radiant and mini splits going forward depending on how efficient everything turns out to be
I’d love to ask a question. Firstly, awesome video!!!
Control cuts… who specifies this information? And what’s the general tips for cutting control cuts so as not to have cuts where you don’t want them? Thanks
I specified it based on research, but generally it's just something the contractor lays out based on what they know. On commercial projects it might be called out on approved drawings. You general want to keep the aspect ratio as square as possible, and cut 1/4 of the slab depth. Lots more info online on location/spacing/depth
@@MasonDixonAcres Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your experience on this! I have learned so much from you guys. I read in a couple of articles that putting the tubing directly over a rebar kind of creates a void of concrete, hence reducing its effectiveness. Because when concrete cracks, a section of the concrete will press one way, the other section the other way, when the soil settles, or expansive soil movements. What are your thoughts on this? I think the best way is to offset the tubes, say 3-4 inches from rebars, so they only cross them but not follow them directly. Your method makes pour time easier, I guess. To be honest, I am still not sure what is the best method overall easy during pour time, so the workers don't damage the pipes, retaining the rebar effectiveness. In my case, this summer, I will build a 5-inch? slab. I already removed about 20 trucks of very bad soil and replaced with soil. As a result, I think I need rebars (number 4 or 5?) located mid-slab on plastic chairs + macro fibers in the mix. 12 inches between bars? Any advice?
Yes there is technically a "minimum concrete cover" spec for rebar, but unless you have a structural slab (which I doubt) I wouldn't stress about it. Especially with a grid at 12" (and some builders don't do any bar.. just fiber). The key is base compaction - check out our video on foundation backfill. Make sure the soil you have placed is well settled/compacted and I would recommend at least a 4" layer of 3/4" clean stone base, tamped with a vibratory plate. Offsetting the tubing from the rebar sounds like a hassle but if it gives you peace of mind then go for it. I'd recommend concrete brick chairs - the entire mat, tubing and all, gets trampled during the pour. The plastic chairs are both expensive and can tip over if really kicked. I can assure you that your slab / heat system will be better than 99% of those commercially installed just because of your attention to detail 👍🏻
@@MasonDixonAcres Thank you for the tips! I am sure also what we do is much better than most contractors! Also, I used your LoopCAD software, very good, I did my layout in a few hours. Last one: I spoke earlier today to my excavator and mentioned I wanted 6 inches of 3/4" crushed stones under the slab to break the capillarity effect. He was laughing and said: I already raised the ground under your slab by 4 feet with gravel, Crushed stone is not necessary in that case, runner crushed stone would do as good for your soil. What do you think?
Yeah if you already have a stone base you certainly don’t need more. Just make sure it’s well consolidated/compacted
Did you compare the cost of getting a system from a radiant heat floor company to the way you did it? I'm building a 1700 ft2 building with radiant heat in the floor and am interested in your findings.
I consulted once with Radiantec but never got to the pricing stage. I may still use their help for the boiler kit when it comes time for it. I'd guess at least $1500 in labor if you want someone else to lay out the tubing.
-Alex
Just about to start our 3000sqft radiant system and after watching countless videos you answered the main question… where to put the tubing in relation to the slab!!!!! One quick question, what are those blocks you’re using to raise the rebar? Will any block work?
Glad it helped! Those are concrete "bricks". About .70 at the big box stores. Use either the plastic chairs or something with similar density to concrete, not clay bricks. The plastic chairs aren't nearly as sturdy however.
There are plastic rebar chairs at 20 cents each that l may buy to get away from bricks.these bricks,used whole,leave a weak spit.chairs are 500 minimum though..that for a monster slab.tgey go at intersections of 2 rebar,but not at every one!I would say 4 feet apart..ebay..Marshalltown l think
I did that job in a 1000 sf basement floor and then a 1600 sf first floor. I didnt use the blocks but the rest was the same. We didn't do ANY control joints and I have almost zero cracks..after almost 25 years. The technology wasn't nearly as refined then..I would have used the blocks for sure now. Interesting...it is 1/2/24 and my slab heat is set for 60 degrees ambient...hasnt even turned on THIS year! All pipes are hidden in web trusses and drywall. Very warm winter so far outside Boston. Upstairs is Quick Track...and a forever Buderus G15 boiler that has needed NOTHING in 25 years.
Sounds like an awesome setup. We ended up not cutting control joints either (details why in slab video), but 18 months post pour and there are only 2 very thin hairline cracks. A slab below grade should stay nice and warm without cold air around it to suck the heat out. Hoping to also get 25 years out of our boiler! But they do recommend an annual flush with vinegar.
@@MasonDixonAcres that's the new tankless ones. The old cast iron G15..nope
Gotcha, ours is a dual purpose unit for domestic hot water so we can't use a traditional cast iron boiler that is usually in a closed loop.
In your opinion, would 500 ft curcuits of 5/8" tubing be okay?
Seems high - check out some of the resources Radiant Floor Company or Radiantec have posted about optimal circuit length for sizing. I think 5/8" is like 350-400' max
So you have 6 lentghs of tubing right? And what do you mean by control joints? Thank you!
Yep. Contraction joints sawed into the slab
After watching three more times :-) I am Leaving the question yet I think I figured out you were using the crimp tool. I am thinking about using the expansion tool yes a little bit more money just looking for thoughts trying to figure out what I'm doing. ----- Another question for you, you said you use PEX A, question is a relates to your repair kit if you needed one and it doesn't sound like you did were you using an expansion repair kit or a coupling? I don't even know what a repair kit looks like yet.
I just used crimp rings for the test hookup, cheap and easy. They will get cut off for the real install. I like the expansion couplings, however it's harder to do them logistically as a DIYer. Big box stores don't carry the fittings, plus there's the expensive expansion tool (if you want cordless). For my real plumbing, I do lean towards the expansion fittings, whether that be myself or a hired plumber.
I have never seen this done like that before. Usually they staple the pex to the foam board and then lay wire mesh on top of that. How did the concrete guys find pouring your floor with the rebar up off the ground on bricks. Once the concrete is down I would think that they would be tripping over the rebar. I would also worry about the saw cutting the tubing. Can you explain why you did it this way. Thanks.
6:19
@@MasonDixonAcres Yes, I saw that after I commented. I also saw that article before as well. How did the pour go? Were there any issues with having the PEX quite high like you have it? Someone else that did it like that said that the concrete guys could step on it and kink the pipe because there is enough space before it hits the foam that when they step on it it pushed it down over the rebar.
No issues during pour regarding the pex, it was pressurized the whole time. Yes the mat gets walked all over during the pour, wasn't an issue
Where can we get you materials spreadsheet or tracking costs? I saw in another video I can't find that you would offer it for a small $. Cheers ⚡
We are currently working on all of the spreadsheets! The radiant floor spreadsheet can be found here: www.masondixonacres.com/products/radiant-flooring-cost-spreadsheet
We are also working on a guide for radiant heat flooring as well and an overall budget tracking worksheet! Hope this helps!
A few questions - Did you compare EPS vs XPS? EPS would lower my cost by about $1,500, but reviews seem mixed on if it is good. Also, If the structure for my pole barn is already up, would I want to vapor barrier the bottom of the insulation? Seeing in the comments one your reasons to vapor barrier the top was to hold out rain. And did you have to do any perimeter insulation? I do not want to miss this if it is required.
Thanks for the videos man! huge help.
In my opinion XPS is more durable than EPS and I’m pretty sure it has a better track record of longevity below grade, so I wasn’t chancing it on something permanently locked underground.
I would still put the vapor barrier on top to make sure concrete doesn’t get beneath the insulation during pour but it probably doesn’t matter either way.
Yes my stem walls are insulated on the interior face from top of slab down to top of footing. Code required in our area and best practice to protect from frost
@@MasonDixonAcres You're awesome man, thanks for the tips! Really cool channel. Keep up the work!
Appreciate it!
What is that online software you’re using to design that what is it called? Can you provide a link for it?
LoopCAD!
Is there a link for loopcad? Is it only microsoft?
If you google loopcad it will pop up. Looks like windows only
Hw did you clean the dirt off the white plastic? Would that dirt contaminate the cement?
It rained the day before the pour and we used a backpack leaf blower. But honestly it would have been fine without doing that, the amount of dirt from just foot traffic is negligible compared to the mass of the concrete. Slabs get poured straight over dirt all the time
Thank you.@@MasonDixonAcres
Wont having the pex so close to the toilet flange cause a toilet flange wax ring malfunction
The floor temp doesn't get super hot, at max around 75F. So wax rings are good. Plus, I use waxless toilet seals anyway
My only quall is the placement.... thinking is terms of the thermal mass, the more mass that is heated the longer that heat can radiate. It only makes sense in my mind to put the lines low in the slab because heat rises, though the heat will radiate downwards slightly, the thermal mass under the slab would soak up that lost heat if it gets past the foam board. Ironically this theory of mine is why I was calculating for 6 inches of concrete vs the standard 4 inches, the more thermal mass the more stable the temperature fluxuation...
The deeper the tubes, the harder your system has to work and the less responsive it is. I thought what you did until I read this article written by a PE who specializes in this field: www.hpacmag.com/features/hydronics-radiant-floor-tubing-depth-siegenthaler/
Interesting system that is widely used in the screed. And in your case in the floor plate. However think about it in 50, 70 or perhaps even less years. You can't just repair it if it fails...
The tubing is pretty well inaccessible after concrete, yes. But that also keeps it protected, and with no joints it should have no real reason to fail by degradation. If it does.. hopefully I’ll be dead and it’s the next owners problem 😅
-Alex
@@MasonDixonAcres that's a viable statement. Just future wise I wish building would be done more with a reusable aspect to it. For example: now you have to rid concrete of all this non-magnetic tubing in case of recycling. Also things like spray foam insulation are just horror when it comes to circular housing. Don't get me wrong I certainly make decisions myself that are not the best regarding this aspect. But scratch my head when we Westerners keep waisting many reusable building materials... It would be easier with a collective approach or incentive
Because we want comfort in relation to our budget and eco/recycleable is always a side-bonus unfortunately.
Interesting build, keep it up!
I think the solution to that is to build houses with the intention of never tearing them down. Just keep them occupied and maintained in perpetuity! Maybe that’s wishful thinking, BUT there are some pretty old residences out there doing just fine. The one we’re in now was finished in 1917 and still a beauty!
@@MasonDixonAcres maybe that could be one of both strategies combined! Renovating a house from 1954 here so you have a solid point
Everything fails.50 years is short but there is plastic pipe laid all over the US IN water systems that is still 100%..not heated though.l mean in the ground.
Why didn’t you insulate the slab?
Look closer