The Slab Pour was a Disappointment
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- This video is a great example of 20/20 hindsight
00:00 Intro
02:13 Forming details
02:39 Starting the pour
04:07 Placing, Screeding and Floating
06:47 Power troweling a burnished finish
08:44 Issues in the finish
11:34 Why we didn't cut control joints
13:47 20/20 hindsight
16:51 Looking ahead to framing
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ABOUT US: We are Alex and Elaina, a couple in our 20s who are currently living on the 3-acre farm in southern Pennsylvania where Alex grew up. We have a garden, backyard chickens, and build or fix anything that we need to. We still work corporate day jobs, but are working to eventually leave the 9-5 lifestyle in favor of a self-built, debt-free, homestead on 6 acres nearby.
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Most RUclipsrs just brag about their successes and don’t share lessons learned. You guys are ridiculously smart, capable, and humble. Thanks for sharing!!
This could and has happened to all concrete contractors. The fact that the trucks were so far apart on a warm day is nothing but trouble, doesn't matter who you are
You obviously know nothing. Why would you accept the load? You specify spacing on any pour of multiple trucks. If it’s hot, and the mud is 1 hour intervals in between trucks - the second truck wouldn’t have even hit the ground. Send it back. Send the ready mix co a bill for tearing out the first load. If you don’t have a decent relationship w your ready mix of choice , you probably shouldn’t be in the business. It’s the contractors job to use his brain. These guys didn’t have much for brains judging from the video. Or skill for that matter
The only guarantee you can give with concrete is no one will steel it, and it will crack.
And water it well, and use a good mixture, take account for the season when it is laid down and what impact the coming season would have on it.
You will love the epoxy type floor. They may have done you a favor. Hairline cracks pushed me to epoxy in a large shop. Loved it.
Thanks for sharing your experience. My husband ( he is a engineer also) is doing similar to what you guys are doing but we will be using a pumper truck to do our pour. We will be doing our pour soon, so I have been doing research to know what to expect.
Best of luck with it! Hire someone you won't need to micromanage to get the job done properly.. but even then, we have found even the best reviewed contractors have to be micromanaged (better termed as overcommunicated with) to get what you're looking for. And make sure that communication is written!
Thank you for the advice and your video is very informative .
THANKS for this video! Lots of items for consideration!
Definitely a lot of lessons learned! Hopefully it helps you on your journey!
Thank you for the good the bad and the ugly. Starting a garage probably in two months, if goes close to planned and home Bring up 2023 following you keep up the information coming and keep up the good the bad and the ugly for we learn from that
That's the plan! Good luck with your build.
Thxs I learned a lot.....😳 Now I now to make sure I have a contract
You know I’m in your corner and have been so concerned about this particular pour.
You are both capable and will make great decisions moving forward.
Can hardly wait to see the first wall.
Thanks so much Nettie ❤
Self leveling top pour!
Like you said, one thing that's gonna help out. You got rebar heavy 12 inches and also you put Fiber in your concrete. I was planning on using what they call Rebar left cosweet which is a Helix product
I am glad you did not cut, judging from the beginning on heat lines, they were not controlled height-wise and you would have cut a line regardless if it was adjustable, which is great for somebody else to learn. If your going to do an expansion joint and want heat lines in concrete, put the heat lines under your rebar and at the same time make sure the contractor has an adjustable cutter before the project.
cold joints are not always avoidable but there are methods that I did not see in you video.
thank you for the advice at the end
vetting is not a dis on the contractor it is simply verified trust.
Great discussion and advice. I did paving for the Army. Concrete is merciless, as you've learned. Pour days can be much worse than yours. The careful wet curing was a great call. It gives max possible strength. That's why less cracking. Be aware a cold joint's shape is important. Hopefully they made it as close to square with the base (vertical) as possible. Even a square cold joint is a risk for spalling under load like a car driving over it daily. Taper makes it worse. Unfortunately, if a chunk is going to spall, epoxy paint won't help. If you see spots with chunks that look like they could break off, hit them pretty hard with a cold chisel and see. If they break, a repair in advance with a good _epoxy concrete_ patch will last the life of the house and save much trouble in the long run.
30 years of remodel and structural renovation experience here. The most important thing with concrete is that you put it in the right place. All else are details. I say this because I have removed tons of yards that people poured with bad planning. This looks good by the way.
Agreed! We were thinking about that during the pour.. "if we fire them now.. then we're really going to have a mess on our hands.." 😂
@@MasonDixonAcres Fire them for what? No contract and you provided the materials. I've been a commercial GC's for 35 years. A day late and a dollar short but you broke the most important rule any owner can make...no contract. Big mistake #2 is providing materials. If they would have provided the concrete and the labor, they become 100% responsible, they get to battle with the batch plant instead of you two being "the middle man". Anyway looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.
@@chrisanthony579 Except when the contractor doesn't pay the plant and the plant comes after you for the money. Many states allow the materials supplier to come after the homeowner for the payment even if you fully paid the contactor.
@@joe55 Agree, however the concrete plant would need to file a lien against the property Owner. Owner pays the contractor and contractor doesn't pay the supplier the chances of the supplier every receiving payment from the Owner is slim to none. A lawsuit is always better than a lien but an Owner should always get a lien waiver from the party the Owner is paying. At the end of the day, if folks are going GC their own projects, these days they really need a "friend in the business" to guide them through how the industry works in real life.
Slab looks good to me. Mainly needs to be level flat and smooth. Which it is.
Seems like another opportunity to switch up concrete suppliers if doing any concrete pours in the future. If I recall, the same supplier was likely the source of the poor quality pour in the block walls. Good luck with the rest of the build. I’m a little late but thoroughly enjoying it.
Correct, safe to say the first bad experience wasn’t a fluke
Lol...2 engineers building a house. This thing will outlast shit the Romans built. Rebar 12" OC, holy crap. I am an engineer building my own home, so I speak from experience. Great videos, keep them up.
Haha much appreciated! We would rather overbuild than underbuild as novices just trying to make all the right decisions! And there are thousands of them as you know. Best of luck on your build!
Early/mid summer is a tough time to pour concrete. I've had best luck in fall. A lot more wiggle room for mistakes without compromising quality and finish when the temperature is not as hot.
Very true! The cool weather is a huge factor, we won't do another summer pour again unless everything is poured before 8am.
Absolutely. I poured a 30x50 slab in 40 degrees fahrenheit and high humidity and not a single crack a year later. 5 inches thick and rebar 2 foot spacing. The finishers started at 8:00 am and couldn't finish until after 5:00 pm. Slow cure.
So you want to start building a house in the winter? Here in Nova Scotia you have to start in the early/mid summer (a lot of places have the spring weight restricitions) otherwise you are too late (short days, rain, snow, ice, cold/freezing temperatures, storms,..). Of course you could pour in the fall then cover the slab up for 6 months and then start building in the spring. I have had many issues with the concrete supplier as well and it makes it really difficult to do a good job. I remember a time when we (4 carpenters) waited for a whole day and no concrete was delivered.
@@fabiancanada8876 I do most of my construction in the winter. And I'm in an area that gets A LOT more snow than Nova Scotia. September is the ideal time to pour concrete.
I did concrete in S.Fla for 30+ years. With this logic, concrete could only be poured for about 2 weeks each year. S. Fla is extremely reliant on concrete structures. Even single family homes are almost always built with poured concrete and block, over wood framed. You just have to know what you’re doing. I could count the number of canceled concrete pours, in my career, on one hand and poured nearly every day.
Hi I’m from Argentina, and I’m curious about USA working methods haha
How do they control the level of the surface? I didn’t saw any guide or point for control.
Also, don’t you use concrete vibrators? Or with that power screed is enough?
I would consider renting a walk behind grinder to go over the slab to minimize the blemishes if it makes you feel better. Don’t beat yourself up about the outcome. The issue is 100% on the trucks being late.
I would definitely research grinding the concrete to improve the cosmetic appearance. I have read too many threads online of people having problems with Epoxy finishes. Epoxy is very expensive and not bulletproof. I would save the money and seal the concrete after a light grind.
Thanks for the input! It is certainly an option to do a diy finish or just leave it as-is. We will have to think more about it after most of the interior finishing is done and it would be time to do the floor (likely a year from now)
@@MasonDixonAcres definitley use a strong micro topping and polish.
I have done a house slab in past. I have though it would be a good trick to make some steel reinforced concrete columns and trenches with steel and concrete and bessa block walls to build four to six small tough sheds one at a time (to make it easier then tie them all together to make a bigger shed. If I could get away with it (which is questionable). Might be possible to get permission to build the small sheds one at a time. If I was able to build them tall enough and have them spaced far enough apart they would be similar to columns in appearance. Then use c-section steel beams for the roof frame. Could be usefull as car port if I only got that far. I own a big block. Save the 9000 and build a carport garage or shed. Good luck.
Homeowners did a great job helping out.
I always pour a little loser. Gives u less cold joints.
They REaly needed to cut down cld joints in-between trucks
The next truck blends in better when u have cut the last trucks edge flat and in a straight line than u use a small 2x4 say 2)3 " long and straight edge the joint grinding and blending both edges as one flat floor. U must than crawl it 2 maybe 3 times to get it to match
It seems the problem was with the batching plant mostly. The contractor cant do much if the concrete doesnt come on time. Concrete is not easy.
It really was. The guys weren't the best finishers but the truck timing pretty much backed them into a corner
As far as cutting... you could have done that even several days after. To get a better finish polishing is a good answer. Not sure what you ended up doing.
You are totally wrong. They got a cold joint because the lame contractor didn't pour any concrete where the first truck ran out. They continued with the third truck where the first truck stopped. Those people must all have lQ below average - obviously.
Timber is often lighter than c section steel beams.Especially if you use pine so that it can rot.
It's all good. I'm sure you make it good. You radiant tubing looks good. Did you use some type of insulation below the concrete. Not just a vapor barrier.
2" rigid insulation yes.
@@MasonDixonAcres good deal. I figured you did. You guys seemed to be doing very well with this project. Congrats on the engagement!!
@@pineychristian Thank you! We appreciate it!
Its really not that bad, the concrete is structurally sound, cold joints can just add to the character.
You could hire a sander for the concrete to finish / improve the surface.
Also consider acid staining. I'm not a fan of epoxy too many VOCs for a home.
5 years time you will not be phase by this at all.
Cheers from Oz.
Attention to detail.... A contracting company that has an attention to detail... That's alot to ask of someone taking your hard earned money no...? lol...
What you said about nobody cares more about your job than you do is so true... That's why I keep ending up doing things myself, from shear dissapointment and frustration with professional trades doing crap work.
Sorry to hear that the job went off to left field. Very nice attention to detail in what you two are doing!
Yep, we have learned sometimes we need to lower our standards when hiring work out.. tough pill to swallow!
Ha, the word craftsman or craftsmanship doesn’t matter much anymore… very tough pill… 👍
I just poured a 6" thick pad in November and of course that night it dipped below 30 degrees, now it's been in the 50's for the past 2 months, crazy; And we ran a hair short of concrete as well and shouldn't have, IDK how it happened because I added an extra 1/2 yard over the exact requirement. It's only a floor, but it's a big step in a project and you always hope that it will look great and turn out perfect, it didn't but it's not terrible and it's only my shop. I've already purchased 700$ worth of epoxy that I plan on putting down in the spring (the concrete was only 1500$ so that's frustrating), I sure hope that goes well or I'll loose my mind. By the way, that's for about 500 square feet or 8 yards of concrete, no way would I pay someone thousands to coat my floor. I may eat those words in about 2 months, we shall see... Good luck with your next contractors, it's not always what you expect!!
Just wanted to add that if you have to do it yourself, the best time to cut the grooves in, is the night of the pour or following day. I picked up a diamond blade, poured water on it as I went, and cut my control grooves the next day. That part of my project worked perfectly and was actually very quick and easy...
Thanks for the advice!! We never did cut ours and have had one tiny crack that is practically invisible - the perimeter insulation turned out to serve as movement joint to prevent interior cracking. We thought about the DIY route when epoxying, the hardest part though is the surface prep though (grinding) which will take a couple rentals at minimum so that's why we lean towards hiring it.
@@MasonDixonAcres make sure you get a top clear coat such as polycuramine to protect the two or 3 part epoxy coating and make clean ups easier.
Will installing an epoxy floor surface have any significant impact on the effectiveness of your infloor hydronic radiant heating system? (added thickness)
Don't believe so!
How do you deal with cracking with the tubing inside the concrete, does the line split? Would it benefit to have a space gap in the spots where the line would cross the stress cuts? Maybe have a section of pvc where it should crack so that if it elevates or sinks there is that gap for movement???
There should not be enough movement in the slab to cause a problem. Unless the slab base is so poorly compacted that there is huge differential between two sides of a control joint (probably common in today's spec home garages) there is no need to worry about it. The best part about this pour was that we did all the prep - 4-6 inches of clean crushed stone on undistubed ground, consolidated with a plate compactor. It's now 9 months old and even with zero control cuts, I have only found 1 hairline crack that you'd miss if you blinked
@@MasonDixonAcres we have been living on our land in a mobile home for a few years now, I wanted to see what the land does in different spots before we built... I was planning on setting it all on the top of the undisturbed ground mostly. Exactly what you said, 6 inches of good clean rock... later oni was going to move dirt from other areas of the property to fill in around it making it all look " flat " I figured it would be the easiest way to run some of the plumbing...
My biggest concern is the substrate though, it's a sandy clay and known to shift, worst soil ever. I hate bentonite. I'm glad I ran across yalls video, it made me consider a lot that I wasn't thinking about.
To be fair your site wasnt properly prepped for the conrete finishers. There should have been a 4ft dry border around the slab i.e. cardboard plywood ect. Anywhere they step off the slab you had them stepping in mud. A GC would have had the site properly prepared and the grass dirt and sticks would not have happened. Also wet setting is what cause the heavy pooling.
Alex here, I've been to quite a few "GC" build sites, and I can say for sure none of them are laying plywood around the perimeter of a slab to make sure the finishers don't screw it up..
@@MasonDixonAcres then they werent a GC.
Are cold joints that of a big deal? How do you extend pads to existing slabs?
Placing something like this is a big deal. if you are going to extend, lets say a sidewalk you have a pad that goes between old sidewalk and new pour. Extending something is fine. but you cant mix fresh and almost dried concrete....... A cold joint is a plane of weakness in concrete caused by an interruption or delay in the concreting operations. It occurs when the first batch of concrete has begun to set before the next batch is added, so that the two batches do not intermix
New subscriber here! Sorry for the old video comment, and if you've addressed it already, forgive me. If you were budget conscious, why did you go with radiant floor in the garage? You kinda addressed it in the video, but I was wondering about your thinking here.
Thanks for following along ☺️it boils down to (pun intended) a few different things. At the very least we knew we were putting the few hundred bucks worth of tubing in the slab since it’s an easy way to heat the space and can’t be done in the future. Other thoughts were:
-marginal cost increase to put the manifold and control equipment in also (less than the cost of a heat pump), especially since the tankless heater also takes the place of our standard domestic heater.
-all our living space is above, so the garage will be more or less conditioned year round to keep upstairs comfortable.
-it allowed us to heat the space earlier in the build
-the garage can’t share ductwork with the upstairs, so it needed a separate system either way to condition the space. The mini splits we installed mainly to take care of cooling, but they also will supplement heat.
-we are budget conscious in the sense of doing most of our own labor in order to buy the best materials. We definitely don’t want to cut on material quality to save upfront, we’d rather take the extra time and effort to do the task ourselves to get the same (or more) savings. Good, fast, or cheap - pick two 😉
The products used for the radiant system and cost details are in a spreadsheet on our website if you’re curious!
a detailed contract is a must...hopefully the guys walking over the structure before pouring did not damage anything...
The rebar was quite springy so it more or less returned to shape after stepping on it, and the tubing was pressurized so that remained in tact
@@MasonDixonAcres that is a relief...
I think that if you want something done right. You have to do it yourself... If I were you and I am not. I would just roll with the imperfections. That is what makes concrete floors, concrete floors.. I poured concrete as a profession for many years owning my own business. Cold Joints usually happen due to an interruption by the ready mix supplier, (Like you guys experienced) but to be honest most of the time its due to an idiot who is releasing the trucks late. A pump on the job seems to help some as you got that guy calling and yelling at people too.. That is why I think you should pump everything. The cheapest help you can buy during a pour. In my experience its far better to stack the trucks and make them wait on you, then wait on them. When we use to do 300-500 yard pours we wouldn't even start until quite a bit of trucks were lined up and any batch of concrete that would arrive hot to the touch. We wouldn't receive it. Tell them its hot and your not adding water to it. Sometimes during big pours they will re-rout canceled trucks to other jobsites. A. You don't know if the mix design is correct. B. It creates a finishing nightmare. This is far worse than cold joints like you experienced as its basically a cold joint throughout... While you technically have them. Based on the video, I would be surprised if you see any effects due to them. You have rebar which is a good thing. It appears as if they fanned out the cold joints and retarded them. If they were able to mix the old with the new to some degree while they were screeding with their vibratory (which helps to consolidate it), then most of the issues were mitigated in my honest opinion.. I think it could have been much worse based on how long you had to wait between trucks.. Good luck with the rest of the build!
Thanks for all that info! It helps to hear from someone who really knows their stuff. We were definitely relying on the experience of the contractor to manage the trucks better (plus the batch operator who should know better) and now we know we can rely on neither, and need to micromanage it from the first second.. or hire a better sub! Good tip on the pump, we definitely should have done that for the grouting. It's been a few months since the pour and even without control cuts, there has only been 2 very small hairline cracks that aren't near the cold joint. We will see what that turns into, but overall we think it's okay. Still want to grind and epoxy it though, there's some 1/2" high and low spots around that cold joint that are very noticeable walking over.
I've been a concrete contractor for 30 years, there's definitely issues. We deal with trucks being late all the time, the real issue is not getting the power trowel on it soon enough. Why not rent a saw the next day and cut the joints at a depth you were comfortable with. Sure the soff cut is great, but we cut all exterior slabs the next day. If you were planning to use the troweled floors as finished, wet curing with tarps on it is a bad idea, it draws the moisture up in a blotchy pattern. Same as winter blankets do. You could've flooded it daily and been covered. I would grind the slab before epoxy.
We decided not to saw cut and am very happy we didn’t risk it - Unintentionally, the perimeter insulation served as an expansion joint, so there is only one barely visible 8’ long hairline crack in the center (8 months post pour). With no constant source of water it was impossible to keep it wet without a tarp in the summer, it evaporated in minutes. I read about the tarp thing but it actually did great and there are no noticeable signs of blotchiness, just bad finishing and that cold joint
@@MasonDixonAcres that's unfortunate, we always have a power trowel ready to go to solve that issue, I've been fortunate to have experience with small floors and pours over 2000 yards at a time. Experience is priceless, good luck with the house
2:58 ... thats what were best at Timmy ! Concrete! .. Now if he would of said that in Spanish I would of believed him haha ... For my experience though the crew i had over twelve guys on a large driveway pour
they worked way under man on this pour in my opinion .. I've learned if something doesn't feel or seem right , Speak Up ! Don't just sit back and let the mistakes get so bad there not fixable til they leave, then it's all what ifs in your head . Good luck with the project!
Haha right those words will always be burned into my mind 😂 concrete is the one trade that it's really hard to derail everything if things aren't going to plan, since time is such an important factor. Once that first truck was poured, we had to keep going despite the other two being late, or the end result would have been even worse cold joint. I agree they could have probably used another guy or two in the heat, but overall a simple 36x40 should be manageable for a crew of 5 (that know what they're doing...) in decent weather. Thanks for stopping by!
That cold joint is really on your contractor, he should have poured the second truck all around the first pour, I saw it coming watching your video. A good concrete guy is usually booked out weeks or months in advance, so it is not likely they will meet every home owners request to pour in perfect weather. My 28x48 garage footing and stem walls were excavated and poured in four days. Lets just say like you I had some anxious moments between digging it in a day, the inspector showing up after the footing was poured and the massive thunderstorm that rolled through minutes before the first truck showed up to pour the stem walls. It was sketchy watching concrete trucks almost cave in the saturated dirt walls.
Oh wow, goes to show that construction happens whether it's ideal weather or not. Agreed that wrapping the 2nd pour around the first would have helped a ton, one of their guys even mentioned it after the 2nd truck was poured and floated.... However, even between the 2nd and third truck they had finishing issues, which would have been avoided had the trucks been stacked.
It really depends on who is responsible for ordering the concrete. If your the GC and you order the concrete it's your fault. If your the GC and you hire a sub-contractor for ordering, pouring and finishing the concrete it's their fault, only if they set the spacing of the concrete to far apart between trucks. That should have been a 10 to 15 min spacing between trucks. Now if the concrete supplier has a plant problem (or truck breaks down while enroute) then that's the supplier issue and could be held responsible for the cost of R&R (remove and replace) of the concrete.
Now for the finish, mud and debris, that's a GC communication issue, they should have a dry area around the pad area. The plastic would have been better served to place around the outside of the area vs on the slab area. Water in the forms would have been pushed out of the way and mixed (a little) in the concrete. That was about a 5" slump and that little bit of water wouldn't have been a issue. But talking with the sub-contractor about the mud before the pour should have happened.
I've worked as an Inspector for a engineering company for 19 yrs and I've watched +100k yds of concrete go down for roads, bridges, basins and slabs. I've poured in 27 degree to 115 degree weather, wet and dry. I talk with my GCs about weather conditions the day before, before the pour and during the pour based on conditions. All concrete will crack sooner or later no matter how much curing compound (water or chemical). The subgrade is the most important thing in a concrete pour, you want a stabilized subgrade that will help prevent the concrete from moving in different weather conditions.
Epoxy floor resign is a good way to cover up the finish. But if there is a crack (not a hairline crack) then using a Sikadur Crack Fix (Sika USA) will help seal the crack before the epoxy floor goes on.
As for saw cutting control joints, in a house slab (depending on size) is really not necessary but using a metal keyway could be used. I've seen a lot of saw cuts with cracks running along side the saw cut.
@@gregoetker1389 My point was mainly that they could have avoided the cold joint if the second pour completely surrounded the first pour such that the third pour which was and hour late 6:10 abutted only the second pour. Even a small strip strip could have avoided it and pushed any cold joints to the utility room. The guys that do it every day know how to hide it.
This summer I had pretty much same problem - too much haste to do the job, too hot day for pouring and bad quality of finish. Same as you - no contract, so no responsibility from the contractors. Sad part is - the house has polished concrete floors, so all the errors are clearly visible each day now.
Ah so sorry to hear that, our original house plan (before we cut it to the garage apartment) was going to be on a slab with polished floors. We are definitely glad in hindsight that we had this learning opportunity on the garage, and that it won't look odd with epoxy floors as that is typically done in garages. Hopefully you found some good rugs to cover up the ugly areas!
@@MasonDixonAcres I will just get lots of cats, that sleep everywhere :D
It is disappointing but the concreters are at the mercy of the concrete plant and the weather in there defence, Concreting is a tuff job and that is only a small amount of variables we deal with day to day. The finish may not be perfect but as long as it's square and level your ready to build. Keep smiling 😃
Totally agree, concrete is a really tough job! There are so many variables that can impact the result. You're right! As long as the slab is square and mostly level, we can make it work.
Did you worry about them walking on the PEX tubing? I see before the concrete was poured they could walk in the 12-in squares, but once they're walking in concrete it seemed like at least part of their foot was on the PEX tubing someone's since you couldn't see it.
Right, during the pour the mat and tubing gets trampled. The concrete chairs kept everything at the right height and the tubing was pressurized to 60psi to make sure it didn’t get kinked or punctured, we checked it several times throughout the pour.
PEX is really tough. you can kink it, but you wont hurt it by walking on it. Best product ever and you are going to love working on that warm slab! you might even fall asleep doing an oil change, it is that nice.
Cut ur open edges flat. So u can blend next truck in.
Yes use rake to cut the edge down than use a straight edge
Honestly from what it looked like those contractors did EXCELLENT work. Im really surprised to see that there was foreign matter in it but I can see how that might get overlooked , possibly. The cold joint was definitely more to do with the concrete trucks not showing up. That concrete company (especially if its the same one you used that sent the driver to the wrong address and then you had half set concrete) seems to be completely inept. an hour gap between trucks is completely unreasonable and to have it happen two times in one pour is pretty inexcusable. Im sure you're already past the point now, but i still think sealing that concrete as-is would still look a lot better and be cheaper than epoxy.
Believe it or not we are still arguing with the concrete supplier, I think there is fault on both parts. We will definitely need to grind the 1/2" hump out of the floor before doing anything, and use self leveling compound of some sort in the 1/2" low spots.
@@MasonDixonAcres that sucks so bad. I almost never sun anything out but in this case you can not pour a slab with just a couple people. You need a crew that knows that they’re doing. The concrete supplier has no leg to stand on. They messed up pretty badly.
@@MasonDixonAcres I seem to recall that you had the originally scheduled pour delayed several hours, so I would side with the concrete batching plant. By delaying your pour, you threw off the batching plant's schedule, and it probably made it much more difficult to get drivers to now fit a different schedule. Hence, the long period between batch arrivals might and did result. As far as the number of masons on this job goes, I would say that four fairly experienced guys would be more than adequate for that size of a slab. Some carefully-set raised screed boards, along with a much longer vibra-screed, would have also given a quicker and more accurately leveled slab, which is a lot easier to finish without overtroweling.
Could have planed on thin expansion joints it that problem appear at last minute.
About epoxy, you would have likely chose to put some other flooring anyway.
Plus the epoxy looks good.
So concrete just isn't working out for your two, that sucks!!! Smart move doing the wet cure. And the added price of doing the epoxy latter will be well worth it. But again that's another time sensitive product. Sure the framing will go better. I'm doing some catching up, just stumbled upon your channel.
Yes we are very glad to be past concrete!
To be fair you shouldn't have been so worried about keeping the water off pre pour , given you seem so aware of the heat/ weather ,, good luck
It wouldn't have made much difference on how things turned out, we didn't want any excess (muddy) water in the mix
Wherever it cracked will remain cracked. Epoxy will probably crack too. Telegraphing the concrete cracks. Ceramic tile will crack as anything rigid will eventually crack. Laminate and vinyls won’t crack nor carpet of course. Once the framing is done you may find the cracking and cold joint will be isolated to insignificant areas. If there are puddle areas, use a high quality leveling product if required.
Yes, the cold joint will fall approximately on an interior partition wall. I think we would definitely use SLC before putting any sort of finish on it if we go that route
As an engineer with many projects I can tell you that the slab WILL Crack. Snap a red chalk line at your planned control joints. Get a diamond circular saw blade (~$40) and cut your own to the safe depth You want. Have helper use a shop vac as you cut, dust mask & goggles. This can be done after framing and even after epoxy coating. Fill cut with an elastomeric sealant and enjoy a beautiful floor. Good Luck, JJ in Maine
Watch out for freezing weather when pouring
A engineers mind wld usually want steel reenforced concrete.
Wire mesh wld prevent lifting after cracks
You could cut those control joints now with a circular saw they make concrete blades and just go like a inch deep
Yep! Didn't need them anyway fortunately
you tuber Ryan at victory outdoor services would be a perfect concrete mentor for you guys! contract, contract, contract!
The cold joints are the fault of the concrete plant. All the trash in the finish is the contractors fault.
Agreed!
You can grind the top smooth and solve lots of those issues no need to spend 10- 15k on epoxy - 400 can solve and then stain will do wonders
Looks like they did about as good as they could with that awful truck spacing. The footprints are a lack of attention to detail issue. They burned it in with that 4’ machine, and cured it in the best possible way. Many residential slabs are way worse. You have a strong, dense slab perfect for polishing. It wont hide all of the inconsistencies, but will get rid of footprints and will reduce the visible cold joint to a slight color difference in the finished product. Im seeing this video late, but hopefully you got some control joints in there quickly. It wont stay crack free for long, although im sure youre hitting incredible numbers between the high psi, fibers, and wet curing. Your home would be an excellent candidate for a great looking polish job, many residential slabs are low psi and full of crazing and shrinkage cracks.
A center 2x4 and pour in 2 pours.
Many times contractors won't bother with contracts. If you insist, they may walk away. Contractors seem to have more than enough work and don't want to bother with "picky" customers. It is sad they see it that way but is the sign of the trade shortage.
Totally agree! It can be a tough balance for sure.
@@MasonDixonAcres Just found your channel and subscribed. Great content. Thanks for sharing your build!
@@dspears666 so glad to hear that! Thanks for following along, we still have a long way to go 😅
Some states require if $2500 must be licenced and should have contract.
Good judgement call on NOT cutting the slab. Chances are the non-adjustable saw would have damaged your pex lines.
Yep it wasn't worth the risk! About a month post-pour and all we have seen is a very very small hairline crack
Another trick possibly you can not use. Two old (heavy steel) A frame swings 6 to seven metres apart . Then you can put c-section steel beams over top of them. Then a few steel posts concreted under steel beams and bolted onto them. Then roof joists and roofing iron. Can be used for a carport or shed. C-section steel beams go directly over steel pipes at sides if possible (do not want them falling off and hurting anyone). Then they are attached to apex pipe with screws or bolts. Another trick is possibly that if swing was concreted in place when removing it you might consider leaving concrete attached to base of four swing pipes if there is not to much of it(concrete is extremely heavy). Then when dug out and disassembled can possibly be put on h.d. trailer and brought home. (Then you can dig some holes after re-assembly have four or 8 people carry it to post holes put it in. If not level you remove it and put in pavers or bricks to raise low posts to close to level. Saves money if components are cheap. Second hand roofing iron can be bought for cheap if you know where to get it. Holes in the roof iron are not a problem if silicone or metal stick on tape is available cheap. Is more likely a usefull idea if you have worked in construction and can assess strength of components being used. Is sort of thing you might get away with if you live away from suburbia. If able to weld metal vertical plates could be welded onto apex pipe to form a u-shape to sit c-section steel beams into to help improve safety level. Then bolt or screw c beams into place. Helps safety if apex pipe extends past metal assembly joint. If your not involved in construction the idea is not for you to use as the steel c-section beams will do everything in there ability to fall off and hurt people. C beams might be put just on inside of metal joint assembly at apex possibly. Newer A frame swings are not likely of any use because they are made of lighter thinner weaker metal so anything going onto them needs to be very light. C-section steel beams can possibly be bought from demolitions sales places for cheaper than new along with used roofing iron. Have a good day.
i live in western chester county i worked for a builder build lots of homes all i can say is relax its not worth losing sleep over stuff happen in construction yes go to some jobs and look at there work do not take there word hire amish most will come back and fix there work but not all there human too they screw up too if the contractor is not buzzy especially in south east pa right now there might be a good reason they probably suck wait for the a good won the amish would get your house under roof in no time best to keep out the weather go to new developments in your area see whos doing the work look around at the job site is it clean organized you might find a good sub but there hard to find do not sweat the small stuff you will look back and have something to laugh about you got this !
Thanks for the encouraging words! We agree that in a few years it will be a distant memory
They left the cold joint edge out in the sun. Without tending to possable cold joint. If they wld have cut cld joint down. Made it so it looks like u had a 2x 4. Form on edge. This 90® angle edge. It is easer to blend next truck if u tend to edge in sun.
If it's going to be a while on next truck. Put a bulk.head in. Install balk head form. So it falls on saw cut. U never even see it.
Shit. Just hire me lol
I bet once you start putting "quality" clauses in your contract no one in that area would be willing to deal with you.
Very true, unfortunately. However we did put that in place for our roof and it worked out well.
@@MasonDixonAcres No one wants concrete floors in their house anyway. Epoxy isn't an acceptable finish either. Get your final and save your money until you can afford a real finished floor. You'll be a whole lot happier in the long run.
@@wthomas5697 no one? lol.
@@wthomas5697 I disagree. Polished concrete floors are amazing in fit, form and function. Like hardwood floors they can be refinished time and again, stained, polished ect... And when you have radiant going through that floor to heat the house, it will be one of the most cost effective means because of the thermal mass properties of concrete. Is it the most asteticially pleasing? Depends on the interior design of the house I guess, anything can look good.
@@danbiss87 No, concrete is not an acceptable surface for an interior floor. Unless of course it's terrazzo. But that's not what we're talking about here.
Concrete is great as a subfloor, not a finished surface. Radiant heat works just fine in any situation.
So sorry to see your shoddy work done by day labor. I say that because we have concrete contractors that do the same level of quality as seen here and they don't care. That slab should be so flat a cue ball can be run straight across with no waiver. Hopefully this all worked out for you as you paid top dollar.
Could you show us how you do that?
Simple trick to reduce slab cracks use 10 millimetre steel reinforcing mesh and vibrate the concrete with a concrete vibrator.
Steel reinforcement will not keep concrete from cracking. Over vibrating concrete causes spider web cracking on surface due to stone going to bottom.
2 part pour would have been good regardless of trucks running on time or not. There's just more time for a better finish and less potential for things to go wrong.
most people don't chose that because of the cost increase.
Yhats good to wet set concrete. Instead of epoxy, polished concrete provides a cheaper nicer looking finish.
Have it ground to expose aggregate
We will have it ground and epoxied at the end of the project!
Hello and thank you for sharing. My humble opinion: I would have opted for the main slab poured separately from the tubing. In that case you could have made the cuttings at appropriate places. After you could place the tubing at the right concrete thickness and tubing depth. As one of the comments pointed out the concrete people were stepping on the tubing at their wish with no knowledge of the consequences. In this way you can pour this concrete at a 50 mm (2”) and the concrete cover of the tubing at about 25 mm (1”) which is OK. At the same time the concrete people wouldn’t have caused any damage on the tubing.
Not really sure I understand - you're saying pour one slab, then place tubing, then pour on top again? You would still have to walk on the tubing. It's very durable especially when pressurized. It ended up being a good thing we didn't cut - the perimeter foam worked as an expansion joint and there is no major cracking
If ur going to apoxy urself. Do a cool border. Get the hang of it.
Use blue tape on border edge. Ur sapost to saw cut borders to keep colour from spilling into other areas
Never been screwed, until you've been screwed by a referral.
lol
Grind it.
I believe a pump truck would have prevented your issue with a uniform pour. I was worried about this while watching your pour. I hope it turned out acceptable for you.
The placement with the chute was no problem, it was the 1hr between trucks in the heat that set up the pours independently rather than together (hence the cold joint)
No contractor (other than a guy that is renting the pump truck out) would use a pump truck for a small slab like this when you have easy access from the side just to pour with the chute. Big waste of money.
You are right @dedicateddad4ever . If you order a pump truck (around 1200$ extra) you are pretty much guaranteed that the concrete supplier will get you your concrete in time and get the pump to the next job! @JustHazardous Absolutely not the case here in Nova Scotia. They charge so much money that the pump makes no difference so they end up using it as much as they can. Work less, charge more
Phew, guess almost everything that could go wrong actually did go wrong. What a shame.
Just as a headsup, this video is missing in the "Self-Building Our Home (All Videos)"-Playlist as of right now :)
Thanks for the heads up! Yes glad to be past the slab 😂
I've heard there are basically two types of concrete. One is cracked and the other isn't, yet.
😂😂😂
WHEN EVER I POUR OVER HEAT TUBING. I ALWAYS USE
ZIP STRIP DURING POUR.
NO CHANCE OF CRACKING AND O CHANCE OF CUTTING TUBING
CONTRACTOR SHLD HAVE RENTED GREEN SAW AND CUT A SHALLOW SERIES OF CONTROL JOINTS.
Did not appear to be contractors fault, those trucks should be liable.
When pouring concrete the surface must be wet especially in a hot day that way the ground will not absorb the concrete's water and make it dry and crack
This was poured into a vapor barrier
If you are engineers, I'm bill Clinton!😂
Nice to meet ya Bill
Way to go Bill
That's rediculous that those trucks were that far apart. Epoxy is great, but that floor really needs to be acid eched first.
All saws adjust depth. On blade.
That's some bulll
You will be fine,
No way I let that go. That contractor would be coming back out to remove that and would be paying to replace it.
And you'd be paying lawyers double what the pour cost to try (and fail) to make that happen.
Sucks when you put all that time and effort into making something beautiful and as near perfect as you can, then someone comes in and screws it up. Welcome to the party kid. Been dealing with this very thing on every level, in every trade my entire career. You will find quickly, people just don't care and won't care as much as they should, especially when comes to your house. It's not hard to perform good quality work, but this is quickly becoming an epidemic of epic proportions.
If the concrete shows up the way it showed up (1 h in between on a hot day?!) there is not much you can do. You can plan everything perfectly and have the best team you will still not get the result you are looking for.
WAY overkill kids....re-bar 12" oc AND fiber in the mix?!?!?!?! ya...park semi's on it....ur good! For "engineers" with no experience in concrete, ya done good! Real world experience will show you that you could've gotten away with much less and been ok. I do agree with you on the finish issues, that's laziness by the contractor, unfortunately their plant issues probably led some of the crew to lose focus and not wanna be there anymore (honestly, I thought they were your friends, not a pro concrete crew) I've been building houses since the early '80s and a large floor pour is still something I get nervous about....too many variables.....hard to get right, easy to mess up.Period.
Thanks for the input! The 12" rebar was more to facilitate the radiant tubing layout, and fiber was maybe 150 extra so figured why not. Concrete is definitely a tough trade to get right!
Honestly, i love the look of epoxy and it lasts a long, long time. I think since you've done so much already- you should try to epoxy it yourself and save a ton of money for something else. Overall, I'm loving watching your videos and I know you have this
Thanks! We will look into what the grinder rental costs when we get to that stage. Probably won't do it until after drywall is on
Your contractor should have not accepted the second load. It would have been sent back. 1 hour spacing is a joke. Also- they need to know how to add a touch of water when the mud is coming out as Rocky as that mix was. Looked like very little cement content if it was a 4K. Looked like a footing mix. All rock. Add a little bit of water. Spin it. When you are pouring loads a hour apart and not even vibrating in the cold joints- which they are cold joints. There is a weak seam at every load butting up to the next, to say the least. When the first ( finisher ) took his mag and drug slag all the way across the top of the stem wall in the first moments of pouring , it was apparent these guys are just ( guys that are pouring concrete ). Not a finisher in the bunch. If you are throwing slop from your 4 foot machine while you damn near bury it , while 1 foot adjacent from you ,, you have burnt in sold floor- you sir are an idiot. Your first and only mistake was hiring these guys. If he doesn’t have a saw capable of adjusting depth or a soff cut saw- he shouldn’t be in the business. Also- rebar doesn’t keep concrete from cracking. It only gives tensile strength to concrete that has not only cracked, but tried to separate. This is where rebar is useful and engages essentially locking the adjoining sections of the crack to each other. Does nothing to prevent cracking. Wives tale. Too bad your left spending double only to cover that ugly floor. And make no mistake about it. Sadly that is one ugly mofo
That's why you never pay up front.
Have a contract specifying exactly what is required.
Lousy work gets a reduced paycheck.
A true finisher knows how tie contrete in to keep it from getting a cold joint every finisher does not know how the really do it it takes skill plus know how I have seen too many where finisher claim they know how to stop concrete from getting a cold joint and they don,t know. My answer to you study your concrete contractor.
LOL looks fine move on to the next step.
Pump
Can you actually put in the contract that if there is a cold joint you will get some kind of refund, or something?
You can put anything in contract, it's just a matter of finding someone who will take on that risk for a reasonable price
Do you want to come help me pour my concrete? I am also in southern PA and an engineer building my own ambitious home!
Haha I don't think you'd want that 🤣 the best idea is to hire a more reputable contractor, make sure you are 1st pour of the day, and verify the batch plant being used has adequate trucks/drivers/capacity to handle the pour with no delays between trucks. Have a very good plan going into it (truck access, where each load will be placed, how the smaller details like slopes or ledges will be accomplished, etc.)
You sure? It'll make good RUclips content. The chance of disaster is moderate! I did a concrete slab before but the scale of this one is a tad bit more.
The cement company should have added retardant to the mix before shipping it out.100% their fault.
They typically won’t add anything without the buyer specifying it
You'll never prevent concrete from cracking. There's one thing concrete will always do is crack. As engineers you should know that
Preach
Video is without sound
Concrete curing was not that health water 💦 care
The finishers can't make the concrete be delivered on time.
nice they they get to lose money because someone else didn't do their job. classy
The finishers were paid in full.
You stated in your video around the 11:26 time stamp that your getting money back from them.
How exactly are they supposed to control pine needles when there was no roof?
One other point to note a muddy job site is on the project manager they should have had rock hauled in.
Easy - clean your feet off before walking on a fresh pour that you are about to start power troweling. Or better yet, bring a pair of clean shoes or slides to step into before getting onto the slab. All the debris was tracked on by foot, it wasn't falling from above in the middle of summer. We don't have pine trees, it was in the mulch.
The mulch was brought in to get above the dirt, which it did a great job of. The dirt & needles troweled in were only caused by carelessness from the finishers. When I sent the photos to the lead guy, he agreed.
If any person is smart of enough don't hire a, contactor in the first place cause they always promise to do a,good job if you going to hire someone that,did concrete for 49 years like I did