How To Install Under Floor Radiant Tubing With Aluminum Omega Heat Transfer Plates Between Joists
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- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2022
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How To Drill Holes Through Floor Joists: • How To Drill Holes Thr...
Articles that explain about concrete slab vs. wood for radiant heating:
www.energy.gov/energysaver/ra...
www.builderspace.com/wood-vs-...
In this video we show you the parts & supplies needed and explain the process of installing radiant PEX tubing using aluminum staple up heat transfer omega plates.
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Young man your ever evolving skill set is more impressive with each new project. It’s a pleasure to see such a smart hard working young man especially in todays setting.
Can't wait to see the boiler hook-up video next!
The cute little animations during installation REALLY set this video above and beyond for assisting DIY jobs. Thank you so much!
Benjamin, Came across your video as I am looking into adding this type of system into my finished cottage. I would need to be installing from our crawl space (totally dry as when we built we sprayed the ground a min of 4'' and all up the walls and roof) We should have added infloor heat mats when we tiled, but we didn't and now looking to add this system.
I found your video to be VERY useful on how to plan and install this system! So please, Continue to make more videos. Your descriptions are done incredibly well.
Cheers,
Cool! I've had the chance to install this type of radiant heat with accessories and over the years of installation of boilers etc I've found "poor-overs" are much easier and way more efficient.
Nice work! Hated loading my uncoiler lol.... I'm now becoming a mechanical engineer at 45 years young....
Hard work and good work ethics pay off💯 keep it up!
Hello from Chile Ben!
I have radiant heating here in my house that I installed and I love it.
I came to your video so that I could get an update on the correct installation process. I could not find the OMEGA Plates here in Chile years ago. So I had to use multiple clips which was not the best but it is still effective. Thanks for the video. Very good explanation.
Here I use a wood boiler to heat my water. It works well.
Thanks again Ben. Jim in Chile.
Great video. I am getting ready to put hydronic heat in a duplex we have been building out of pocket for 9 years. There are full basements in both units. I was going to put in those Morris Beacon heaters, but I can handle this even at 70 yo.
Great video. Looking to do something similar in my crawl space and this had all the tips I was looking for. As to naming the roll carriage, two suggestions: The PEX Plexus, or The PEX Dispenser. Keep the great content coming!
Great job man. It's good to see how you keep everything organized.
Great job. Trusting I didn’t miss this but you may want to add that when possible the runs first coming from the heat source should be focussed on the coldest parts of the floor example the extremities so for instance your greatest heat is not in the middle of the floor where it gets too hot
Thanks for the vid! Going to get rid of the baseboard heat in my 100+ year old house. Showing how to loop the runs is very helpful. Thanks!!!
It’s satisfying to see such a clean installation
Very cool project. Looking forward to seeing more!
The "Pexnado" PEX Tubing Unroller, is a super helpful tool.
The only tools we use is the good ol red and black Milwaukee. Never stops working. The staple idea is a good one. Wish I saw this video as we did this very same job on an addition.
One of the better informative videos I have seen in a while....well done!
Great work, Benjamin. Thank you for sharing the information. God bless you.
BRO!!! Been in business doing changeouts and ductless. I decided we try our first radiant floor. It turned out amazing. Your video was impeccable.
Well done---you made it simple!!!
Well done and informative. Wish I had seen this before completing a couple of rooms.
Great video.
Going with 5/8 or3/4 pex sure looks enticing.
I used these plates to radiant heat the tile floor in the kitchen when I was finishing off the basement below. Then on top of the slab in the basement I used some plastic spacers designed for radiant heating. On top of this was a cement board underlayment for a tile floor or a plywood subfloor for the basement bedroom that was carpeted. I used 300 foot rolls, and due to the size involved all of the loops ended up somewhere around 250 feet. I used a really cheap corded electrical stapler, and afterwards drove any staples that were sitting proud in with a tap of a hammer. With the basement layout, I didn't have to drill any holes through the joists for the radiant floor because the loops were in an area that was going to be left as an unfinished storage room, and the other ends of the loops were mostly beneath the kitchen cabinets. This was circa 2006. It's interesting that the process and material is pretty much unchanged from that time.
Great job on the video! I like the way you explain everything.
I am not going to try it but enjoy your meticulous style, thank you
Thanks for all the info!
I enjoy your video , very professional . Thank you for sharing it .
Nice work man. Very well explained aswell
As always, great video!
This kid does nice work. 👍
I always like the standard name "Spinning Jenny" used in fencing. Come from the thread spinning of old.
Thanks again for your time
Nice work. Making the holes bigger as you suggest is the best advice. I fought with a lot of pex because of this.
The twist and pull is the method I use instead of having all those loops hanging and feeding. Its way faster and reduces the chance of kinking. You could've heated up that kink if it wasn't too bad.
Always have a plan drawing for the routing this way you can combine some shorter loops with potential longer loops. It's easier to balance out the loops on paper first.
I have done 1/2" 350' runs without issues but I do planning to stay below 300'
Design the flow to heat from the outside in and keep off the outside wall by 12", don't heat but completely insulate the outside joist to the box.
Ben stellar tips once again!
As usual, great video Ben.
I did mine exactly like this. If I had it to do all over again, I think I may have done it differently though.
Each of my zones, done in this manner, really suffer from thermal loss across the floor of each room. What I mean by that is that the side of the room where the loops begin is always substantially warmer than the far side. I think when I do the next rooms, rather than running the tube into the cavity and down and back, and then into the next cavity, like you've done in this video and like I did in all of my other rooms, I will run the tubes into the cavity, down to the end and then into the next cavity - having a single tube in each cavity all the way to the far end of the room and then run the tube back through in the same manner, ending up with 2 tubes per cavity like your method here but, unlike this method, the heat should be much more evenly distributed throughout the room rather than having a hot side and a cooler side of the floor. Has anyone ever done it that way and if so, did it do what I'm hoping it will do? What's your opinion on this Ben?
Either way, this video is yet another example of your excellent teaching talent. You always explain things in such a way that anyone can understand it. That is a true gift. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. Even at 430K+ subs, I think your channel is seriously underrated. Thanks again. Be well.
Have you tried reversing the flow (swapping the tubes at the manifold) so that the hottest section of pex goes first to the exterior side of the zone (coolest section of the room)?
Nicely done young man, well put together video..
Wonderful.. love to see it. beautiful install.
Great presentation very helpful and useful
Great job viewing it properly.
NOT ALL TYPES OF WOOD FLOORS ARE COMPATIBLE WITH UNDERFLOOR HEATING.
THANK YOU FOR PASSING IT FORWARD.
I've installed many, and never come across a wood floor that was somehow incompatible. My last job was in my own house, and I had prefinished solid maple. These systems are lower in efficiency, but work well regardless.
@@paulmaxwell8851 I HAVE. TRUE STATEMENT. HAPPY HALLYDAY'S 😊
More of a "Warranty" issue than a real issue.
Great video. Well done!
Great video! Several years ago I raised a sunken living room floor to the same level as the rest of the main floor level using 2x8 joists. Because the living room was a converted single stall garage, I couldn't access the joist bays from below. So, after friction fitting batt insulation plus a one inch layer of foil backed rigid insulation in the joist bays, I notched each joist from the top and stapled the heat transfer plates transvers to the joists. After snapping the pex into place in the same pattern that you are showing here, I installed the sheathing to complete the upgrade. Also, I used a big black marker to map the tubing below, then wrote a note to beware of what is below. To do it all over again, I would have spaced the initial (4) runs of tubing 6" OC along both exterior walls first, then continue in the field. At -40 in Fairbanks, the entire floor is nicely warm on the feet, but there is a slight cool convection dropping down from above at the walls where a couch or chair may be located. Note that my home has R 38 walls and an R50 lid but placing the heat nearest to the heat loss will make for a more comfortable space. Once again, great job on the video.
You notched the joist! Now they are 2x6's.
@@paulhoekstra7569 yep, but they are completely supported by the conc slab that they are sitting on. Agree that notching is not good for a free span joist.
@@ChuckKarl525 Now I understand. I missed a couple words in your note. I think I started in at the second sentence. Have a great day.
@@paulhoekstra7569 you have a great day as well.
nice video! very clear and informative!
Superbly presented, thank you.
I did runs no more then 250 ft, and nailed it on the side of the joists on 1 ft centers 2 ins down, so I didn't have to worry about nails going into it from above, and put 2×8 insulation underneath, and insulated all interior walls,
In a few years when this young man graduates hs, his father is going to have to pay him whatever he asks for. He's incredibly knowledgeable.
Great Video!! well explained and detailed. question. If you have I-Joist on 16" centers could you run bigger tubing and just one tube down the middle instead of two tubes? Maybe 5/8?
Very nice presentation. Good job, Ben!
Sweet thanks 😊
We’ll done thanks !
How about a video on installing radiant in old construction with 2x6 cross bracing. Great looking job. Well done
There is a argument that the heat transfer plates are not needed due to the nature of the floor assembly being saturated with heat and the slow nature of heating the system. Great job on the install. Nice video.
Agreed. I installed yrs ago in a new house. Read the pros and cons of transfer plates. Decided not to use. No noise. Even heat. Must keep set temp, no set back. Takes time to both heat up AND cool down. Best even, quiet heat.
Yup. Plates are pointless
@@adamenstrom I would think that depends on how much heat you are trying to transfer and how much floor area you have to transfer it. If you don't use the plates, how do folks hold the PEX in place? I used the plates based on the research that I did at that time, but that was 18 years ago.
I would make gauge for marking your holes. just a piece of plywood/ 2x4 to stick into the corner to quickly mark your centers.
That would be faster probably.
How well does this actually heat? It would be nice to use this to evenly distribute heat in my house, since the bedrooms always seems to be cold.
I wonder if I could use my water heater instead of a boiler...
Thanks!
Nice job!!
Very high quality video.
Should this be more efficient than baseboard? I understand the heat would be more even. Great vids, keep it up.
Awesome video dude! Thanks!
Thanks! Have enjoyed your channel now and then by the way!
Cool Spool!
Badass bruh! 💯
Great video, your very good with your explanation. Is there a reason you chose the omega channel instead of what he U channel?
this is done in Alberta frequently as air is dry in winter they no like forced air
Its for this reason, inefficiency, that i went with Ecowarm floor panels for my in-floor heating of the upper floor of my garage. I had the project panels layed down and secured, and the PEX tubes run in about 4hrs. AND the efficiency of the heat getting to the room is MUCH greater because the tubes are IN the floor and not UNDER the subfloor. UNDER means you need a hotter temp to heat the tubes, the aluminum flashing, then the 3/4 or greater subfloor, then FINALLY the heat get to the room. I like way much better...lol.
Great job
How well do these perform with heat pumps? Do they transfer the heat well into the floor or have a very long warm up time?
Maybe they would be suited to an always on weather compensation system to keep dripping in the heat rather than on off fossil systems.
Watching your video on ground and neutral separation I have a older garage and it’s bonded together with just three conductors to the garage two hits and neutral I use a fare bet if electricity in the garage but can’t see that would be the cause of my very high electric usage does it have any effect on my electric usage because of this
Great video, not sure if I missed it or could not find, but what is the heat source for this system?
Would love to see you do a video on Air to water Monoblock or a Heat Pump to indoor unit maybe even a hybrid Outdoor Heap pump to Coaxile exchanger to buffer tank?? Really like you video's.
Great vide, this is exactly what I want to do to my house as a retrofit. However, the house was built in 1960 and the main floor has 1” hardwood oak strips. So the underside (where I’ll be installing the pex) has about a billion tiny nail points protruding.
Do I grind them all off? The floors squeak so ideally I’d like to replace the subfloor with plywood (it currently is the old 5” planks). Can I tear up the oak flooring, tear up the planks, put down plywood (with construction adhesive and screws) and then…glue the hardwood flooring back down?
Very good work on the video and very informative.
I just put this into my house. I retrofitted underneath with the 1 inch boards and then hardwood on top of that. During this most recent cold snap the system couldn’t keep up. I still have not insulated between the joists. My question is will insulation make a drastic difference. I have a friend who set his system up almost identical to mine and he didn’t insulate in order to heat his basement as well. His system keeps up fine. I’m wondering if it’s an issue that there’s at least 1 3/4 inches of subfloor or should that not make a difference?
Those are pretty big holes you are drilling, and off center from the middle of the joist too.
But, this is a very informative video. I have a small house with a crawlspace that is open to the ground under it, about 3 feet tall. I'm wondering if this would be efficient in that case where the heat is not embedded in a floorspace?
this is a fine example of how to do this task.....NOW..I see all the holes that must be drilled for the heat lines....What are the rules for "engineered floor joists"? near the rim joists? along with all the other stuff mounted to the ceiling such as ducts, piping and etc, It's all good when it not obstructed but OMG on an existing ceiling.
This is all nice and wonderful, now the flooring people have arrived to nail down an oak floor, how do you prevent a nail from the gun from piercing the PEX below?
Great video 😊
It is a very nice instructional video , however I saw one thing I need to share , and for personal experience, make sure the silicon you use it's comparable or use something else, reason been in a new construction, we had so many problems with areas that we discover that when silicon was in contact with the PEX and also with the new orange PVC for fire sprinkles , for some reason it had a chemical reaction and end up breaking or becoming weak or unglued , yes after many investigation that was sthe culprit , had to go to court to prove this things ,so be safe
Nice video! I grew up in Slayton. Just a few miles from you! ;-)
What! No way! That's awesome. Was just in Slayton at Bomgaars the other day. You still around the area?
@@BenjaminSahlstrom I have been living in San Francisco Bay Area for the past 30 years. Engineering degree and Silicon Valley is the rest of the story.
Great video
very nice work
Back when my brother had his house done it was a brand new idea and a brand new product solar roll tubing was put in a loop between each joist and attached to 3/4 copper headers each tube waa rubber about an inch in width two rubber tubes joined together with a rubber Web it was easy to install just staple the web to the bottom of the plywood floor and attach it to the copper headers each tube was attached so it was hooked up at the ends one side to the feed and one to the return so each side side flowed opposite ways that way each side had equal heat transfer but afterwards they realized that they had a lot of oxygen transfer into the water in the tube aluminum foil was installed between the joist and R12 fiber glass insulation installed below
Is there a video on the water heater install yet?, A question I have is where will the water used for the heat, end up at? Thanks.
Problem with this setup of pex tubing, is there's going to be a definite gradient from one end of the floor to the other. The water from the boiler is heating the first coils of pex first, then the next coils, etc. By the time it gets to the end of the loop, a significant amount of the available heat will have been extracted, leading you to a floor that goes from hot to cold (or warm, to less warm). When laying pex in a floor like this, you should be arranging your tubes in a |X|X|X|X|X format down the joists (criss-crossing at the end), with holes at each end, so one side of the joist has water closest to the supply, the other end has the equivalent closest to the return, resulting in more even heating.
You win the internet for the day !!
Appreciate the comment. I am about to install underfloor radiant system like that in this video. All the videos I keep watching state to do what this young man did. I kept wondering why, that would mean it'll be warmest in the first bay and then cool down where it enters the last bay. I had wondered if that meant starting closets to the outside wall since that will be the coldest area and then end the run toward middle of room. Now I am curious if your method would distribute the heat evenly across the 300 ft.
@@thelazyhiker3288 I replaced my furnace/radiator setup ~10 years ago, and have heated my entire home with pex radiant ever since. I'm in southern Ontario, so it gets cold (but not crazy cold, usually caps out around -15 to -20c), and my house is almost entirely spray foamed with 2LB closed cell foam.
The floor heat is evenly distributed, but it's not uniform. To my surprise, you can notice the specific hot spots where maybe plates made better contact with the floor (IE: were pressed tight), and you can tell where maybe fewer distribution plates were run down a joist. If I was to do ti again, I'd add as many plates as possible.
That said, having warmer and cooler spots hasn't been an issue, it's not very obvious to the touch, but my cat definitely has favourite spots to plop down.
That said, a manifold with adjustment on each run, and one run per room, has been an absolute God-send. Some rooms you want to push more heat into (IE: the front entryway, bathroom, etc.), while others you want to push much less (bedrooms, nobody likes a warm bedroom). Don't skimp on that if you're doing any size of system!!
Hope it helps :)
Hey Ben! Have you ever installed pex floor heat in a log home loft
I believe I need to install T&G to provide a ceiling, then install joists to allow space for loft bathrooms, then a product such as warmboard so the pex tubes can be placed, followed by my finished flooring 😳
Great video.
So with 300' run max, or even 500' with 3/4" pex, how do you deal with a 20x20 or larger room?
Do you have to run multiple loops for that room? Or could you just do less loops and leave out outer rim, so treat it like 18x18 room?
Yes, you'd have to run multiple loops (circuits). You wouldn't want to decrease the room to 18x18 because the perimeter wouldn't be heated. This would be especially bad if there were exterior walls. (they would be much colder in winter)
Very interesting didn't know this was an option. I have access to my basement or I could technically do my full house this way I wonder how efficient it is I would definitely stuff some rock wool under it and then probably air seal it
Great video. Liked and subbed.
any heating system has conducted heat the pipe and plates touching floor, the convection of the hot air collecting up against the underside of floor rising up, and radiant heat. which is only a part of the heat going up through floor. my bathroom is heated with nothing but copper pipe up against wood no metal plates or insulation with 3/4 tongue and groove boards then plywood above it and linoleum tiles on floor above, but my system runs at whatever high temp my whole system is at for baseboard from 120 to 180 with high efficiency boiler so I didn't want my floor burning hot when barefoot out of shower
I might add aluminum plates or insulation if we want more heat but i think this system you have there will be plenty warm
Great video. QUESTION : can this set up be done on a crawl space in a freezing region???
A dab of spray foam in holes helps with noise as well as protecting tubing as it goes through joists
Great vid
Hey, Ben. Happy to have stumbled across your channel as I’m currently in the process of adding underfloor radiant heat to my home (not too far away from you, near Olivia). There’s a lot of great information in this video and it’s much appreciated. Question about my install: Our house is an old farmhouse (circa 1910) and has two layers of 3/4” hardwoods. I’ll be covering with a floating laminate and worry that the thickness of the subfloor will greatly reduce heating efficiency. Thinking about drilling a bunch of small holes in the floor for better warm air transfer. In your opinion - practical solution or am I overthinking it? Thanks again!
The extra floor thickness will not reduce efficiency in a noticeable way. It will slow down how fast the flooring heats up, but also how fast it cools down. The extra thermal mass will make the heating much more even (or smoother) between On/Off cycles because of the extra heat in the floor. People commonly misconstrue this with efficiency, when it really has to do with how fast the overall system (whole house) reacts. Some will argue extra mass increases efficiency due to a similar misunderstanding.
No need for holes, this will do almost nothing, as the heat is transfered by conduction through the solid floor and not convection (movement) of air. In fact, the major purpose of insulation is to prevent convective air currents from setting up inside cavities, and it is light weight so it will not absorb and/or conduct heat very well.
One additional step you can take is to add a radiant barrier below the hydronics, before installing the insulation below. This will reflect the radiant heat back at the underside of the flooring and work as an extra layer of vapor barrier if in an unfinished crawl or basement environment.
@@robertswaine6096 Justin your question is what I have been looking for as well. We too have a circa1900 home in central Vermont. We want to change over from Propane Forced Air to Radiant. Robert your content hits all the questions I have been looking for really well thank you!. Any help on how best to size/design a simple very low tech boiler, efficient HWH would be great! I am glad to sacrifice efficient perfection for simplicity!
@@robertswaine6096 That actually makes perfect sense. Much obliged for the input. As for a radiant barrier, I purchased the foil bubble wrap with the intention of stapling it a couple inches below the radiant plates. Then, I read (multiple sources) that the product is extremely overhyped. It’s also expensive. So, I may end up using 1” foam with foil and then fiberglass underneath (R-value and sound). I’m not expecting it to be the only heat source on a bitter Minnesota day, but I’m hoping it keeps the house comfortable most of the time.
Exactly!
@@jakel4prez The stuff is definitely pricey. And a lot of the labeling and marketing definitely seem to overhype it in terms of R value, which has to do with conduction not radiation. It's not a miracle product. But it is a good radiant barrier. Any of the other reflective products would also do just fine, it just seems like a lot more work cutting to size though.
Made my own plates out of aluminum sofits each panel was 24 inches by 15 inches with two rounded channels for the pex.
Twice the heat transfer and cheaper than those plates.
How did you do it?
awesome video
Code is not opinion. In Canada 1 inch hole has to be 12" from any load bearing wall and 12" per inch in hole size there after to a maximum of 1/3 of joist size. ( 3 1/4" hole in 2x10, (9 1/2") Neat product and work.
@Benjamin Sahlstrom
If one loop is 138', and the other one is 160', can a standard 2-port manifold be used, or does there need to be some sort of pressure regulator valve on the shorter one to create more resistance?
Curious why the subfloor was plywood and not OSB. Is this by any chance due to the type of finish floor being installed later down the road?
Ben, I have a house with baseboard registers. Since they still work, doesn't it make send to connect the Pex to the last baseboard and run it back to the boiler?
I have this type of in-floor in my house, with separate thermostats for my in-floor to the 110v zone pump relay (a two-wire Honeywell dial) and a normal five wire thermostat for forced air/AC with backup heat strips. I want to run the in-floor as W1 and heat strips as W2 on the same thermostat, so I am considering a 24v-24v transformer to connect my primary thermostat W1 to the zone pump relay with transformer isolation, then switch the W wire back to the air handler control over to W2.
Maybe a chance for a follow-up to your recent thermostat wiring vid on how to control radiant + backup heat from the same thermostat?
Forced air AC only with heat strips? Or a heat pump with backup heat strips?
Either way, the pump relay already isolates the the circuit, so an extra transformer is not necessary. In the case of a heat pump though, the defrost cycle could signal your boiler to come on if not accounted for when re-wiring.
What are your thoughts about running a PEX Radiant Heat Foor System above the subfloor versus running the system below the floor for new construction? For remodeling, this method seems more cost-effective.
Hi my house is off the ground and I have a crawl space 20 inch. As you can tell my floor get cold as hell in the winter and hot in the summer. about 3 to 4 years ago I got it spray foam but later it was a waste of money because it felt the same nothing change whereby the floor still cold in tje winter and hot in the summer. Jax FL
fast forward. I should have added pex first before spray foaming the floor..
Question: if you or other might know. If I now add PEX lines on the foam do you know if the heat will get through the foam and heat the floors? TIA
Was wondering if it’s best to use pex A or B ? New materials are coming out so any updates?
See this is type B , would you use the same still ?
See some pex had been taken off the market for leaks . Would like to know what type is best ..
Thanks very good video
Liked and subscribed !!
I wouldn’t think you’d need those heat plates with close cell foam were applied underneath. Thoughts?